Why hello thar, 2nd place! Braves impotent against Pirates, fail miserably 5-0, lose NL East lead.
by royhobbs on Sep 7, 2010 10:54 PM EDT
in Braves Game Recaps
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PrintSo despite all of our wants and desires for a sweep this series, it's technically still not impossible. Unfortunately, it only comes true if the worst team in Major League Baseball finishes the job tomorrow against Derek Lowe, and the Pirates sweep us.
And despite a gallant effort by the Florida Marlins, they just fell to the Phillies. So that means we are now no longer in first place in the NL East, and are 0.5 games behind. And are now reduced to also looking at the Wild Card, as well as concerning ourselves with what the San Francisco Giants are going to be doing from here on out.
There's really not a whole lot to talk about in this game. It was the same old story as the Braves offense went stagnant again, and made another pitcher look like the second coming of Nolan Ryan. It was the same old story as our starting pitching once again delivered a solid performance until the wheels fell off in the 7th inning, and Tim Hudson, whom I pointed out normally owned PNC Park, will unfortunately be the one seen as getting owned, by of all teams, the Pittsburgh Pirates.
The Braves had a golden opportunity in the top of the 6th inning to break the game open, when with only one out, Martin Prado had doubled, advancing Jason Heyward from first to third. A strong throw from (who else) Ryan Doumit to the cutoff man was the only thing keeping Heyward from going home. The Pirates had a brief meeting, and it was painfully obvious what they had in mind, as they intentionally walked Brian McCann to load the bases with one out, in order to face Derrek Lee. James McDonald challenged him with fastballs, and quickly got him to two strikes, before taking a little off, and getting Lee to ground into the dreaded 5-4-3 Jose Vidro inning-ending special.
Baseball, as we're all aware is amongst the harshest of mistresses. This is one of those cases where looking back to the box scores, most certainly would not tell the whole story. Tim Hudson was perfect through the first four innings, and had only allowed three harmless hits going into the 7th inning. But it was in the 7th where it all fell apart where consecutive doubles, an intentional walk, and then a demoralizing triple made it 3-0 Pirates, before Huddy was pulled, Peter Moylan got one out, but then the usually effective Eric O'Flaherty was tagged for the back-breaking 2-run homer courtesy of the pinch-hitting Delwyn Young. So despite pitching masterfully into the 7th inning, Huddy's end line looks like 6.1IP, 4ER on 6H, with 4K and only 1BB.
The Bobby Cox Compliment Sandwich: Jason Heyward had an acceptable night, going 2-4. Derrek Lee is not the answer Rick Ankiel is not the answer these offensive woes are pathetically embarrassing. Aaaand, I seriously can't think of another positive aspect about tonight's game to close this sandwich and I'm an optimist, so here, have a tostada.
I don't really know what else to say. It's evident that Derrek Lee just cannot cut it, and Rick Ankiel's whiffs could probably make Andruw Jones or Jeff Francoeur feel a little better about themselves. So close to the end of the road, it's hard to really say what can be done about it, other than some lineup reconstruction, but that's always seen as a move of panic, and we all know Bobby Cox won't let that happen.
This is just off the top of my head, but I'd want to move Martin Prado back to the leadoff spot, for starters; he even said it himself on the radio once, that he would rather set the table than clean the dishes. If Lee were even a shadow of his Cubs days, he'd make a great #3 hitter like he used to, and Infante could be put in the 6-7 spot, simply to get some competent production out of the bottom of the order whenever David Ross isn't playing. But this is also why I don't rosterbate with everyone else, in public.
But anyway. There's likely nothing I can write or say that'll cheer most of you guys up at this point, but I leave you with this attempt to kindle a glimmer of hope before you likely go back to your regularly scheduled agony: In 2007, when the Phillies caught and passed the Mets, there was zero time to recover and try and take the crown back. In 2008, when the Phillies caught and passed the Mets, there was plenty of time for the Mets to try and reclaim, but they didn't, because they were the Mets. The Atlanta Braves are not the New York Mets. In 2009, the Braves simply started their mad dash, just a few days too late; but still managed to put the fear of Pujols into the Rockies before being snuffed out by mathematics. All I'm saying is that yes, it most certainly does suck to lose this game, lose first place, and run a greater risk of another post-season-less October. But there is still more than adequate time, and we're still in a very adequate position to change things before October 3rd. But it's nothing that we can control, other than well wishes for the boys we root for; remember - A Braves salvage tomorrow, and a Marlins win turns it right back around, and suddenly the Bipolar-coaster has just gotten a little more interesting.
Derek Lowe vs. Zach Duke, tomorrow night. And if you must know, Andrew Miller vs. Cole Hamels. And what the hell, Barry Zito vs. Dan Hudson.
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No matter tonight’s result, it is hard to imagine that the games at the end of the year will not have incredible importance to the Phillies and the Braves. It will surely be nerve-wracking the whole way, but that will just make it more exciting. Thanks to the schedule people this year, and I look forward to a lot of fun baseball between now and then.
FWIW, the Phillies make some really crappy pitchers look really good from time to time. It is not just a disease peculiar to the Braves.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Sep 7, 2010 10:57 PM EDT reply actions
looking forward to those games, i hope they are critical cuz that would be fun to watch
i hope we also miss halladay, hamels and oswalt in the rotation lol
A lot of room in right center, if he hits one there we can dance in the streets, the 2-1....
Probably not likely
The rotation was pretty much set up to ensure that the Braves will see Halladay and Oswalt in both series, which obviously, will not be fun, considering the only Brave who could actually score off of him was Chipper.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Oswalt has nightmares about the Braves:
0-3, 7.58 ERA, .354 BAA in seven starts.
The birth of Jason Heyward was God’s punishment for the sins of the people in New York and Philly.
But in games that really, really matter
NLDS 04-05:
3 starts, 2-0, 2.96 ERA, .276 BAA, in 18.2IP
And we just lost to Brian Burres and James McDonald.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
I agree
No matter what way Phillies or Braves fans look at it, it’s pretty hard to actually fathom that one our teams will be out of contention by the time the two head-to-head series come to fruition. It’s almost inevitable that it’s going to come all the way down to the last weekend.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
if the two teams continue to play the way they are now...
chances are we will be out of the playoffs.
Well ain't you just the life of the party.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
The Phillies
Are still given to puzzling offensive brownouts, still have a shitty bullpen and a back of the rotation that isn’t scaring much of anyone. They may win this thing but they’re not the invincible juggernaut that Joe Morgan and their idiot fans think they are.
"I'm not even going to dignify myself with a resonse to that." - Ofc. Rod Farva
The bullpen has been scary, and I long ago predicted it will be the death of the Phillies this year:
Madson will be overused
Lidge will be hurt-ish
Contreras can look like he did last night
Romero is a turd who inexplicably continues to get appearances
Blanton and Kendrick are pretty scary, though Blanton (for a #4) hasn’t been awful lately — he probably came back from his injury too soon.
The offensive brownouts (great term, btw) have resulted in part from injuries, I think, and hopefully, those are mostly over.
The team is probably better now than they were at the start of the year, though they do have holes that you identified.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Sep 8, 2010 7:31 AM EDT up reply actions
For what it's worth...
That post proves that you don’t fall under the rubric of “idiot fans.”
That’s about as much good nature as I can muster right now.
"I'm not even going to dignify myself with a resonse to that." - Ofc. Rod Farva
In all honesty...
we probably don’t deserve 1st place after this series, we’ll just have to earn it the rest of the way
You're a towel
Yep.
I don’t care if it is seen as a panic move. This lineup should have been reconstructed weeks ago and keeping up appearances is no excuse for not doing so. McCann needs to be behind Lee and Heyward in front of him. That’s lefty-righty-lefty (so Graeme Lloyd can’t be brought in, which is something that clearly left a scar on Bobby’s brain) and it puts JHey in at #3. Martin and Omar should go 1-2. I don’t think I’ve ever made out a proposed lineup of my choosing here and I’ve barely alluded to these kinds of things at all, but this is a crying need at this point.
I know he floundered tonight but Lee has actually hit the ball fairly well of late. Given some lineup protection, I think he would produce far better than he has.
"I'm not even going to dignify myself with a resonse to that." - Ofc. Rod Farva
What have you seen from Freeman to say he needs to replace Lee at this point?
by dunnytwogloves on Sep 8, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d say it’s more lee’s rally killing dp than anything freeman has done.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
Pathetic
Not much else to say.
See the Braves are so terrible on the road the WC would be useless to us, as we would have to win at least one game on the road.
For the Disney Braves fans (those perpetually optimistic despite losing 5/6 to the bottom feeders of the NL), tell me why I should still be happy about where this team is right now. Please.
"You can't print what I said, but they have to catch us." - Chipper Jones
by Jman781 on Sep 7, 2010 11:10 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
A reason to still be happy: We're not dead and burried... yet.
A second reason: We’re not the Mets.
Second reason to be happy:
at the end of our other all-time low this season (9 game losing streak) we turned it on and was the hottest team in baseball for 3 months
A lot of room in right center, if he hits one there we can dance in the streets, the 2-1....
Well
There’s still 26 games left in the season, and the Phillies made up 7 games in 17 games once before, so I’m hoping that 0.5 games in 26. Crap teams beat good teams all the time, in every sport, who’s to say that Jason Marquis, or Hisanori Takahashi won’t have a good day out of nowhere to topple the Phillies? The Phillies also have nothing but NL East opponents from here on out, too. Who’s to say that the Nationals’ youth movement isn’t going to give the Phillies fits, or the Marlins perpetual chip on the shoulders have them believing that they can still sneak in? Still a lot of time left, that’s really all.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Braves/Pirates series < Philles/Astros series. The Phillies lost 4 straight to the Astros. Cheer up. Could be worse.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Sep 8, 2010 7:33 AM EDT up reply actions
nats
always give the phillies fits late in the year… ugh thanks for reminding me
by PHIGHTINPHILS on Sep 8, 2010 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
The only reason why the Nationals had 56 wins last year
Was because they swept us on the final weekend of the year. Swept us in a four game series. Sure, it was a meaningless series, but you never want to get swept in four by a team like the Nationals … or Astros.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
cant think of 1 reason
the team that remained in first place so long is the one that had Glaus and Chipper in the lineup. neither player is what they used to be but they both drove in runs. the braves have great pitching – but if we cant score runs, cant win.
We still win 42% on the road, that’s more than 1 out of 3 in a 5-game series. We win 72% at home, that averages us winning both at home. Win 3 of 5, move on to the next round.
NLCS, 42% on the road is closer to a split than 1 of 4, win 2 of 4 on the road. 3 games at home, win 72%, that’s 2 of 3. Win 4 of 7, move on to the WS.
Maths, how does it work??
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Yeah...
In our last 8 road games, we’re 1-7 (and I am not terribly confident about tonight). It’s really tough to play like that on the road when each game is so critical.
The Braves need to turn it around and fast…
"You can't print what I said, but they have to catch us." - Chipper Jones
I think there needs to be a shake up in the lineup....
There is a lot of good going on in the 1-4 spots and a whole lot of nothing going on in the 5-8 spots.
I propose a lineup of:
Infante
Cabrera
Prado
McCann
Heyward
Gonzalez
Freeman
McLouth
Pitcher
Freeman needs to get a lot more time. Lee is just not cutting it. We took a chance on him and we need to realize it didn’t work out. We all have known that Freeman has been producing all year long. It’s time for him to get more a shot than 1 start and a few pinch hit appearances. I also believe McLouth needs to be back in the lineup a little more. Ankiel strikes out way to much and he has shown no power. I personally would have preferred keeping Gregor Blanco because he was a solid outfielder and a decent hitter. I like my chances with McLouth making more contact than Ankiel. I also prefer putting Heyward in the middle of the order because he can drive in runs and he would do a MUCH better job than anyone else (Glaus/Lee). But that’s just my opinion.
I agree. I really respect Lee but his health is making him an occational doubles hitter who doens’t get on base. You can’t have that kind of hitter in the heart of your order. How about this lineup:
1. Prado 3B
2. Infante 2B
3. Heyward RF
4. McCann C
5. Gonzalez SS
6. Freeman 1B
7. Hinske/Diaz RF
8. Cabrera CF
Jason Heyward wins at baseball.
Try this on for size.
Remember the Phitans
by RememberthePhitans on Sep 8, 2010 7:35 AM EDT up reply actions
That site is hilarious
Best line-up for the Phillies with Hamels pitching tonight:
1. Carlos Ruiz
2. Jayson Werth
3. Placido Polanco
4. Ryan Howard
5. Chase Utley
6. Shane Victorino
7. Raul Ibanez
8. Cole Hamels (EVERY “good” combination has Hamels batting 8th)
9. Jimmy Rollins
Catcher batting lead-off. Nice.
by JamesFromPhilly on Sep 8, 2010 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions
The 1959 model has Hudson hitting 6th in nearly every linup. He does have a .478 OPS which is not half bad for a pitcher but thats crazy to hit him ahead of Infante, Gonzalez and Cabrera. Its like they tried to seperate all of the Latins from the Americans (and Prado) by the pitcher.
Jason Heyward wins at baseball.
Most of the advanced theory on lineup construction holds that your overall best hitter should bat in the 2 spot, and your worst hitter should actually bat in the 8 spot rather than the 9, because having a better hitter in the 9 spot creates more RBI chances for the top of your lineup (who are, presumably, your best hitters).
"They should just give two ROYs in the NL and skip the AL this year." - KLaw
Cox would have a heart attack if he he posted this lineup they gave me
1. Heyward
2. McCann
3. Infante
4. Hinkse/Diaz
5. Prado
6. Gonzalez
7. Freeman
8. Hudson
9. Cabrera
McCann hitting second would be pretty amusing.
Jason Heyward wins at baseball.
I dig that order.
We’d be up 2-0, or 1-0 with Mac on second base and no outs, pretty often. We haven’t had an orthodox lineup (jackrabbits at the top) since Rafael left for LA. Maybe it’s time to think way outside the box.
"I'm not even going to dignify myself with a resonse to that." - Ofc. Rod Farva
YES....YES....YES....YES.....YES
Following the infamous "astroglide" comment and the challenge for use of word:
no way the Astros glide into the playoffs.
by BrockSamson on Aug 29, 2010 3:26 PM PDT
and even more
YES
Following the infamous "astroglide" comment and the challenge for use of word:
no way the Astros glide into the playoffs.
by BrockSamson on Aug 29, 2010 3:26 PM PDT
I propose a lineup of:
Infante
Cabrera
And I stopped reading right there.
"They should just give two ROYs in the NL and skip the AL this year." - KLaw
unless he’s talking about miguel cabrera, he can’t be serious.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
or Francisco
Valued customer of Boris' Baseball Boutique
by VivaLosBravos on Sep 8, 2010 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Well you should have kept reading.
Why would we bat our three best hitters 1-3 and then have absolutely nothing behind them to drive them in. I don’t think Cabrera is a great hitter but i think he can do the little things like, moving a runner from second to third or getting down a sac bunt. That is the kind of hitter you want batting second. Teams are learning that if they can get past our 4th hitter they can get out of innings with runners on. When i talk to fans of opposing teams they say the person they would less like to face is Jason Heyward. In the 5 spot he can do a lot of damage. You could also put a lineup of:
Infante
Prado
Heyward
McCann
Freeman
Gonzalez
Hinske
Cabrera
Pitcher
Heyward is put in a spot to drive in runs and Freeman is in a spot to do the same. Basically we can’t have Lee or Glaus in the lineup and expect any kind of production from the 5 spot. The 5 spot is a black hole and it is costing us a ton of runs.
by BravesFanScout on Sep 8, 2010 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions
You want all your best hitters bunched together
That way, it’s more likely for them to score, than spreading them out over a lineup.
What happens when it’s bottom of the 9th, and you have a Cabrera to the plate instead of Heyward? You want to absolutely maximize the number of ABs for your best hitters, which is why putting them 1-4 is best. I would think Prado/Infante/Heyward/McCann would be best, but recognize the L/L in Heyward/McCann, which makes me understand why Bobby would put Prado 3rd to split them up.
by kswissreject on Sep 8, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Well you should have kept reading.
No, this pretty much confirmed exactly what I suspected when I stopped reading.
The kind of hitter you want batting 2nd is one that is, you know, good at hitting, who will get get on base to provide the hitter behind him with RBI chances and is also capable of driving the leadoff hitter in. Not a lousy hitter that isn’t nearly as good at doing the things that help a baseball team score runs.
"They should just give two ROYs in the NL and skip the AL this year." - KLaw
Lee has got to go
Lee has brought the spirit of the Cubs with him to Atlanta. The experiment needs to end as he’s brought nothing to the team (other than a propensity to choke the life out of a playoff run).
by SilverRubicon on Sep 8, 2010 8:07 AM EDT up reply actions
fuck this, fuck this offense, phuck the phillies
phirst time i used this word on TC
Following the infamous "astroglide" comment and the challenge for use of word:
no way the Astros glide into the playoffs.
by BrockSamson on Aug 29, 2010 3:26 PM PDT
Can't blame you. I too am pissed but i'm starting to accept that
we’re just not a championship team. A championship team wins on the road.
I have always thought that Bobby Cox is one reason the Braves hasn't won more
than one World Series despite the dominant run in the 1990’s
And you've always been correct.
"I'm not even going to dignify myself with a resonse to that." - Ofc. Rod Farva
and yes i was wrong………
ANYONE WHO REMEMBERS I WAS THE ONE WHO SAID TRADE D. LOWE FOR D. LEE….during ST……. but now that we have him and we’re in a pennant race on 9/7 I say give FF a chance. He can’t be any worse.
Following the infamous "astroglide" comment and the challenge for use of word:
no way the Astros glide into the playoffs.
by BrockSamson on Aug 29, 2010 3:26 PM PDT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4jGSvxCRp4&feature=related
Go USA, Braves, BU Terriers, Irish, Caps, Colts, Hoyas, NU Cats, Wizards, DC United, Washington Freedom
BU Hockey: National Champions 1971, 1972, 1978, 1995, 2009
I'm just saying
with the exception of a week a vacation and a max of 5 or so nights where i’ve worked til real late I’ve watched live or tapped and watched (without known outcome) the Braves games this year and tonight (game number 139 i think) was the first game i turned off early……..
Following the infamous "astroglide" comment and the challenge for use of word:
no way the Astros glide into the playoffs.
by BrockSamson on Aug 29, 2010 3:26 PM PDT
.5 Games out of the division...
1 Game out of the best record in the NL…
Now is not the time to panic, but it is the time to wake up, and KICK SOME ASS!!!
Go USA, Braves, BU Terriers, Irish, Caps, Colts, Hoyas, NU Cats, Wizards, DC United, Washington Freedom
BU Hockey: National Champions 1971, 1972, 1978, 1995, 2009
I love the positive thinking!
GO BRAVES!!!!!!!
same exact sentiment i used to calm my friends down on monday after the phils lost game 1…
i’m just happy that there is a REAL rivalry in the NL East because we both know that the mets are frauds.
by PHIGHTINPHILS on Sep 8, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Embarrassing and surly frauds
To be precise.
I don’t like Lidge much but at least he’s never had to be kept in a holding cell at CBP overnight.
"I'm not even going to dignify myself with a resonse to that." - Ofc. Rod Farva
Was watching that tonight
Great episode all around.
BTTOP: I’m just glad my football season officially starts Thursday night. Take my mind off of this offense ineptitude.
The base paths belonged to me, the runner. The rules gave me the right. I always went into a bag full speed, feet first. I had sharp spikes on my shoes. If the baseman stood where he had no business to be and got hurt, that was his fault. -Ty Cobb
you know your my boy on TC
but this ain’t a joke anymore Scott. We literally can’t hit at all. Other than that, I live in Scranton, PA.. and it’s pretty damn tough to relate anything to “The Office” that can’t get me to laugh, but this is it.
Following the infamous "astroglide" comment and the challenge for use of word:
no way the Astros glide into the playoffs.
by BrockSamson on Aug 29, 2010 3:26 PM PDT
I'm debating a "Reasons why we'll be OK FanPost"
but I don’t think we need one. We’re having a bad week. So what? So did the Padres last week. We’ll be fine. I really think we’ll be OK.
For Bobby.
by Scott Coleman on Sep 7, 2010 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah but this is the 1st time i paniced all year long...
and those god damn Phillies couldn’t be hotter (offensively)
Following the infamous "astroglide" comment and the challenge for use of word:
no way the Astros glide into the playoffs.
by BrockSamson on Aug 29, 2010 3:26 PM PDT
We have 6 games left with Philly in the final week and a half of the year.
Unless we lose the rest of our games until then and the Phillies win every game until then, we’ll still have a chance. And you sure as hell know we aren’t losing every game and the Phillies won’t win every one either.
For Bobby.
by Scott Coleman on Sep 8, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Hopefully
Staring right at the bastards will focus our minds.
"I'm not even going to dignify myself with a resonse to that." - Ofc. Rod Farva
6 games vs Philly
Equates to 2 vs. Halladay, 2 vs. Oswalt, and 2 vs. Hamels… Manuel already set it up that way… I don’t care who Atlanta pits on the mound in those series… He makes one mistake this team is done… I’m not one to give up completely on this team, but I just don’t think this pitiful offense will muster up anything against that rotation…
"I wasn’t thinking about it. That’s the worst celebration of all time. I didn’t know what to do. I got lost in the moment." - Brian McCann
by HansonManCrush on Sep 8, 2010 10:44 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Are you absolutely sure about that?
There seems to be a bit of cutting off your nose to spite the face in that. It’s exceptionally likely that — either winning the division or not — the Phillies are going to the post-season.
Do you really want to set up your rotation for the playoffs that way? Surely the Braves are going to see Blanton or at least one time.
by JamesFromPhilly on Sep 8, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
News flash
The Phillies are good every September.
2009 – .567
2008 – .680
2007 – .607
2006 – .643
2005 – .556
2004 – .704
2003 – .500
The Phillies haven’t played sub-.500 ball in September since 2002. Them playing good this month this year, isn’t really anything out of the ordinary.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
You’re never covering another series, Danny. 0-2? STEP IT UP.
For Bobby.
by Scott Coleman on Sep 8, 2010 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Despite the fact that I used to cover games last season
This is the equivalent of like being a AAA pitcher only brought up to face patsies like the Astros or Pirates, and still losing.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
The Astros are actually pretty good. I think they have the same record as we do in the 2nd half, or close to it. But I smell what you’re steppin in.
For Bobby.
by Scott Coleman on Sep 8, 2010 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm literally not laughing at alll
I’m watching a DVR of 30 in 30 of Tyson and Tupac in complete disbelief
Following the infamous "astroglide" comment and the challenge for use of word:
no way the Astros glide into the playoffs.
by BrockSamson on Aug 29, 2010 3:26 PM PDT
HOW DO YOU GET SKUNKED BY THE PIRATES!!!!!
I cannot comprehend what is going on here!!!! Is it a dream? I wanna cry right now! The Braves are my team and I will never ever give up on them, but I am stuck right now scratching my head. Can someone make me understand and possibly wake me from this nightmare!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
....Land of the free, and home of the, Atlanta Braves!!!
I don’t really care how horrible the defense would be. Prado or Infante in LF, Glaus at 3B, Freeman at 1B.
Try it.
"They should just give two ROYs in the NL and skip the AL this year." - KLaw
+1000000000000000000000000
NO MORE ANKIEL FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING.
by get swoll yunel on Sep 8, 2010 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions
THIS
given how bad our defense has been since the ASB it can’t hurt. If Prado’s pinky would allow him play second:
2B Prado
LF Infante
RF Heyward
C McCann
3B Glaus
1B Freeman
SS Gonzo
CF Cabrera
"C'mon Chip!" Bobby Cox
by ByrneSupremacy on Sep 8, 2010 6:59 AM EDT up reply actions
PANIC MODE...PANIC MODE...PANIC MODE... Alert! Alert!
But seriously… What the #@$% ??
"That's my teammate, man... That's my quarterback"
by TurnerTheBurner on Sep 8, 2010 12:01 AM EDT reply actions
OT: Post your lineups:
Prado – 3B
Infante – 2B
Heyward – RF
BMac – C
Freeman/Lee – 1B
Gonzalez – SS
Diaz/Hinske – LF
Melky – CF
That’s mine.
For Bobby.
perfect
Valued customer of Boris' Baseball Boutique
by VivaLosBravos on Sep 8, 2010 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions
i'm always w/ you man
but take Lee the fuck out of the lineup please.
Following the infamous "astroglide" comment and the challenge for use of word:
no way the Astros glide into the playoffs.
by BrockSamson on Aug 29, 2010 3:26 PM PDT
Just replace him with Glaus then.
For Bobby.
by Scott Coleman on Sep 8, 2010 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
That's almost it
I would swap BMac and whoever the firstbaseman is, to offer him some lineup protection.
"I'm not even going to dignify myself with a resonse to that." - Ofc. Rod Farva
That would mean Freeman would hit 4th. If Bobby won’t move Heyward to 3rd, he won’t hit Freeman cleanup. The only guys who would hit 4th would be Lee or Glaus, and it sounds like everyone wants Freeman.
For Bobby.
by Scott Coleman on Sep 8, 2010 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
"Bobby wouldn't hit Heyward third"
Is going to be a nice thumbnail explaination if we come up short.
I wrote earlier that I would probably put Lee in that spot, but I left it open because I didn’t want people throwing proverbial rotten fruit at my head.
All I can say definitively is that having Mac in front of Lee is going to result in what happened tonight over and over again and I don’t see that being anything good.
"I'm not even going to dignify myself with a resonse to that." - Ofc. Rod Farva
But Freeman would be behind Mac in most games.
For Bobby.
by Scott Coleman on Sep 8, 2010 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Which is why
I would prefer to sandwich Lee in between Heyward (3rd) and Mac (5th).
"I'm not even going to dignify myself with a resonse to that." - Ofc. Rod Farva
Or Troy. I wanna see what he can do.
For Bobby.
by Scott Coleman on Sep 8, 2010 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
This. Lee looks like he couldn’t hit the broad side of a 757 hangar at the moment. Throw Glausosaur out there for a few games and let’s see what happens. It can’t be worse.
755 hangar
Valued customer of Boris' Baseball Boutique
by VivaLosBravos on Sep 8, 2010 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm a detroit lioins fan...
…and this game makes me pray for football season. God, I hate life.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
on a (stretching here) positive note, doesn’t how bad we’re playing kind of add to the legacy of Chipper Jones?
by thenightstallion on Sep 8, 2010 12:24 AM EDT reply actions
Just a tiny bit.
Chipper was so good at taking walks, and was an incredibly intelligent base runner, that I have to hypothesize how often, a two-out walk to Chipper has bitten other teams who risked walking Chipper only to get dinged by a stolen base because Chipper knew their tendencies so well, only to score on a single. I really like Prado, but even at his best, he’s not even close to Chipper’s .400+ OBP.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Still control their own destiny
With 2 wins in a row (Phillies has Thursday off), we’ll guarantee at least a tie for 1st place. It would be much needed to salvage a win in the finale and then the Braves need some more home magic.
by LEastCoastBears on Sep 8, 2010 12:29 AM EDT reply actions
I was really depressed for about 2-3 hours (about as bad as I feel for a Braves playoffs loss) but things can really just turn around quickly for the Braves.
by LEastCoastBears on Sep 8, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I feel like this should be said:
Think back to March. Think back to the uncertainty in our bullpen. Think back to checking TC every morning to see what Jason Heyward broke in batting practice. Think back to Freddie Freeman running past Joe Thurston on a HR, and then being called out.
Now it’s September 7th. In March, if I told you we would be 1/2 of a game behind the Phillies in the NL East, I’m betting that 95% of you would be happy with that. And now it’s all gloom and doom. The season isn’t over, and we’re still in this.
For Bobby.
by Scott Coleman on Sep 8, 2010 12:31 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
That's true.
My problem right now is less that we’ve slipped into second, and more that we look so lethargic and impotent.
"I'm not even going to dignify myself with a resonse to that." - Ofc. Rod Farva
I dont know about all this
Had the Bravos played steadily well but not amazing, we’d have been crunching and driving forward with optimism the whole season. But we’ve seen them play like a championship team over and over again, spliced with mediocrity and crappiness, and now we’re in this spot.
I’m as optimistic as the rest, but it hurts so much more when we are on top and losing it. Time and time again we have watched our beloved warriors trot out there and make it, ALMOST to the end. The curse of the Braves fan is such…. unless we win the WS it is not good enough.
To be on top for so long, then to watch it slip away, AFTER several lineup moves, trades, and other attempted improvements, is so so difficult. Im not saying we wont win, hell, i think once post season hits we are on paper just as much a candidate to win it all as anyone else, I’m just saying this isnt typical bitching. This hurts.
Go Braves…. sigh….. D Lowe…..
23 games left...
If we can get crazy hot for the last 10 games and stay within 2 games of Phillies, the playoffs will be ours.
by romone_braves91 on Sep 8, 2010 12:43 AM EDT reply actions
my opinion
This team was not meant to do what they have done. Stack us up to the Phillies right now. They have the better lineup (even with us winning), and they have two pitchers that would be used as aces at the top of most teams’ rotations (not to say our starting pitching is anything to cry about…haha). I am not saying this to dishearten anyone. I am saying that we stayed in first place this whole time because this team is all about chemistry and showing up to play when faced with adversity. Yes, we definitely hit a bump in the road, but we are about to go home. St. Louis is a tough opponent, but you can make a laundry list of tough opponents we have picked apart at home. Don’t think there isn’t anything left in this tank. Give the Braves a couple games, and I think we see them coming out really strong. Just my two cents.
My lineup:
The exact same as mvhsbball’s lineup except maybe mixing in Glaus a little more than we have been.
As for the whole Lee/Freeman debate…do I think Freeman should see some playing time? Yes, but let’s not assume he will put up the same production he did in AAA. It will take some time to adjust. Lee had a bad game tonight, but he has had some good ones (didn’t he go 3-3 or 4-4 pretty recently?). He is hitting the ball well a good amount, but I think it’d be a good idea to give him some rest to help with his back. Give Glaus a little more time.
by forgotten_glory on Sep 8, 2010 12:45 AM EDT reply actions
Forgot the most important thing…lol. We are well within shooting distance of the Phils. Hell, we are well within strangling distance. We can easily catch fire and be right back in front. They lose tomorrow, and we win, we are already back in front. This sucks…but we will rebound from this.
by forgotten_glory on Sep 8, 2010 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Lee
has not made any sort of solid contact with a fastball
by drumzalicious on Sep 8, 2010 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions
one positive
Heyward is batting .285/.392/.474 OPS .866
dude is flirting with 300 in his rookie year!
by romone_braves91 on Sep 8, 2010 12:56 AM EDT reply actions
For all those stupid postseason roster threads
we are FAR from the playoffs, and thanks for the JINX! I am not very superstitious but those threads were incredibly stupid to have up during a 2gm lead, which is not -.5
PICK UP BRAVES ITS THE FUCKIN PIRATES!!!!! we don’t deserve postseason right now!
Jason Heyward...great guy
No te real jinx was
the fan shot “Already a lock?”!!!!!! When he posted that the Braves were up by 7 games!
I miss first place =(
How about we take back our division tomorrow and head back to the ATL. Our offense needs to be shaken up a bit. Freeman she get more playing time than Lee, Diaz should be our everyday LF’er and play Melky everyday in CF. I trust Melky at the plate more than McClouth and Ankiel even though he has no range.
Go Braves!!! And lose Giants and Phillies!!
This is embarassing
We have just lost a series to the worst team in the entire league to pitchers that are at the bottom of almost every SP ranking and we call ourselves a 1st place team? I don’t care if its on the road or not this team needs to step it up. They did this crap last year in the last few weeks of the season just started playing like crap the difference was we were working on getting into the playoffs via the wild card this year we were actually in 1st place already.
Im just super disappointed.
About the lineup
I feel as though Bobby needs to do some serious shaking up.
Prado 3B
Infante 2B
Heyward RF
Glaus 1B
McCann C
Gonzalez SS
McLouth CF
Diaz LF
by drumzalicious on Sep 8, 2010 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions
so we went from 97+% playoff odds to 81+% playoff odds in about 2 games…?
these numbers don’t mean a whole lot to me.
well when you’re losing to a team with the worst record in baseball it makes it questionable how you will handle teams that are at the top of the league
by drumzalicious on Sep 8, 2010 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think that’s how it works, bruh.
by get swoll yunel on Sep 8, 2010 3:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Especially not
With this topsy turvy bunch.
"I'm not even going to dignify myself with a resonse to that." - Ofc. Rod Farva
I’ve been wondering the same thing. He seems to have the reverse Midas touch going on. I tried as hard as I could to pull for Ankiel cuz I still remember him obliterating baseballs in Memphis a couple years ago, but fuck it. He’s really no more than a late-inning defensive replacement at this point. This causes me no end of misery, though, since the only guy who could logically slot in is Melky. Blech.
Please to explain Nate McSuckypants then. He was added before Javy was sent packing, and he has been on a steady decline since the moment he got to Atlanta, culminating in his abject worthlessness this season.
the point i was making
was that not every player wren acquires is terrible.
How is he supposed to know that a guy that was hitting great after coming off the DL would be terrible for the Braves?
How is he supposed to know a reliever that was posting great numbers for another team would come over and blow every lead we gave him?
by drumzalicious on Sep 8, 2010 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Acquiring Ankiel and Melky was probably ill-advised.
The McLouth, Farnsworth and Lee situations are just a bummer. Not too much we can do there…. You’re right we can’t predict the future, but it’s not making these dudes suck any less.
Gonzo wasn’t a good pick up, but I’ll give him a pass due to the “Yunel was a cancer” meme.
Overall, it’s hasn’t been too hot.
by get swoll yunel on Sep 8, 2010 3:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I still think Gonzo was an awful idea, and I won’t give him a pass for it. But in the name of fairness I will admit that Gonzo didn’t turn into a pumpkin after we acquired like everyone else did this year. That in itself doesn’t justify the deal moving forward, but at least it doesn’t look like he completely shit the bed on that one.
i mean...
ankiel didn’t exactly blow ppl away last year either…
by forgotten_glory on Sep 8, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
My fault for misreading you a bit. I was thinking in terms of people acquired this year, who, with the loan exception of Gonzalez who has been pretty much the same, have all turned to bunk. Thus I misread your quick-shot post as saying it was karma for pissing away Vazquez.
I don’t believe every player he’s acquired has turned to shit (see JJ, Glaus, Gonzalez…) but the track record this year has not been good. We’re hemorrhaging shitty players that have been with us less than a full season.
This was a case of him trading away a guy and him turning to shit.
by get swoll yunel on Sep 8, 2010 3:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Gonzalez
Toronto: .259/.296/.497, 17 HR’s, 17 BB’s, 65 K’s, in 328 at bats
Atlanta: .267/.332/.426, 4 HR’s, 12 BB’s, 30 K’s, in 176 at bats
Been about the same with less power, but Toronto has been a home run ballpark this year.
Ankiel
Kansas City: .261/.317/.467, 4 HR’s, 7 BB’s, 29 K’s, in 92 at bats.
Atlanta: .216/.310/.318, 1 HR, 11 BB’s, 33 K’s, in 88 at bats.
Getting on base about the same but power is gone and is striking out more.
Farnsworth
Kansas City: 44.2 innings, 40 hits, 12 BB’s, 36 K’s, 2.42 ERA, 1.16 WHIP
Atlanta: 12 innings, 12 hits, 5 BB’s, 18 K’s, 6.00 ERA, 1.42 WHIP
To many men on base
Lee
Chicago: .251/.335/.416, 16 HR’s, 52 BB’s, 101 K’s, 16 GDP, in 418 at bats.
Atlanta: .245/.333/.358, 0 HR, 7 BB’s, 14 K’s, 2 GDP, in 53 at bats.
Had some stretches in Chicago where he hit well and that makes his power numbers look better.
For everyone but Gonzalez we didn’t give up much.
Blanco is a 4th OF on most teams, Chavez is an okay middle relief guy and Collins was the only prospect and he projects as a set up man. Only Lopez out of the Lee deal has any real shot of making the majors and he’s still a couple years away.
Yunel Escobar
Atlanta: .238/.334/.284, 0 HR, 37 BB’s, 31 K’s, 9 GDP, in 261 at bats.
Toronto: .287/.344/.407, 4 HR’s, 11 BB’s, 17 K’s, 5 GDP, in 150 at bats.
I think playing in a better hitting lineup has helped him a lot.
Sadly there hasn’t been much difference between Gonzalez in Atlanta and Escobar in Toronto.
Thanks for the write up. It’s a nice comparison. I fear we have been in “cruise mode” it seems for a few weeks. However, losing 2 to the worst team in the league with our best pitchers on the mound might stir the hornets nest. Hopefully they come out swarming.
Oh and since this is Iphone posting I’ll condense everything here. Whoever stated that the Padres were having a bad week horribly underestimated it. 0-10 is not a bad week. That is worse than our awful 0-9. I hope they can recover, because I know we can beat them ha ha.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
by Pavy848 on Sep 8, 2010 10:57 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The difference this season between Escobar in Atlanta and Gonzalez in Atlanta has been quite significant.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Are we really having this conversation right now?
For Bobby.
by Scott Coleman on Sep 8, 2010 3:13 AM EDT up reply actions
What else are we supposed to talk about?
Am I supposed to look on the bright side here?
The guys we’ve acquired through trade recently haven’t done a whole helluva a lot (Gonzo has been all right). That’s all I was trying to say.
by get swoll yunel on Sep 8, 2010 3:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Well we are 1/2 a game away from having the best record in the National League, which is pretty good. And we’d still be in the playoffs if the season ended today, which is pretty good as well. And let’s not forget that we’ve just graduated 4 top-50 prospects (Hanson, Heyward, Minor and Freeman) in the last year and still have one of the stronger farm systems in the game.
Look, the loss sucks and being in 2nd place for a whole 4 hours has bothered me just as much as anyone, but it’s not the end of the season. It’s not like we’re the Mets and have been basically eliminated from the playoffs since late-July. We’re still in the playoffs as of right now, and we’re just having a bad week. Things will get better.
For Bobby.
by Scott Coleman on Sep 8, 2010 3:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t recall ever saying the season was over and that we are doomed. Personally, i find it pretty frustrating (and slightly encouraging) that we have the best run differential in the league and are in second place. But! This is like the fifth year in a row that we’re not living up to our Pythagorean winning % by several games…. Either there is a flaw in the metric, or there is a flaw in the team that is causing us to consistently underperform. The “most LOB by a team in the NL” stat quoted on the broadcast on the tonight isn’t the most encouraging of stats in that respect…
It shouldn’t be anathema to criticize this team when it is sucking. It doesn’t mean that you’re a bad fan or giving up on the season… it just means you want our guys to get their shit together and play like their capable of playing.
And to reiterate, most of the guys we’ve traded for this season haven’t been very good… that’s the only point I was making.
by get swoll yunel on Sep 8, 2010 3:34 AM EDT up reply actions
You didn't say it but
it’s implied in your statement(the doom and glom that is). Also what good is criticizing going to do?!?! These players play 162+ games during the summer which takes a toll on any human body. I have learn over my 30+ years on this earth to try not to criticize as much especially when I’m not able to do half the stuff these players can do on the diamond!
So not only are you telling me what I was trying to say, but you’re also telling me any sort of criticism whatsoever is inappropriate because I’ve never been the arena,,,
Interesting world some of you live in.
by get swoll yunel on Sep 8, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
flaw in the team. Lack of Power + high OBP= lots of LOB.
Plus many braves aren’t good situuationally, swinging at 2-0 counts when they’re hitting like wet noodles. Try to take a walk. This isn’t the NBA, walking’s a good thing here.
You do know...
That the Braves are third in walks this season, no??
13th in average, 3rd in OBP. Something’s got to account for that difference…
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Alright kiddies, time for a “choose your own post”!
If you’re in the “it’s just a bad week, we’ll be aight” crowd, here is your theme song for the week:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIzwyO3c8AI
If you’re in the “Oh dear we’ll never make it to October now” crowd, here is your theme song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDSud7vAH_0
WARNING: Both of the above contain high celtic content. Regardless of your choice, they are best enjoyed with a shot of whiskey. Cheers!
Confidence
The team is not showing confidence lately even if they kept saying they are. You can see the difference between a confident team and one that’s not. The Braves during mid-season was a very confident team. They always believe they can win and they kept winning because their confidence shows in how they swung at the balls. Now, the team seem to be playing tight. The pressure of the pennant race may have caught up with them. If they can get back that confidence in time, they could make the playoffs and even through the World Series. But until then….
Apparently they miss Chippers on the field leadership more than I thought. Does it seem to anyone else that the last few additions to the team (Lee, Ankiel, and Farnsworth) don’t feel like they fit in?
"Give him the heater Ricky."
by Pavy848 on Sep 8, 2010 11:01 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Frenchy-like swinging at everything will do that
Even our top 4 (except JHey who watches good pitches go by) have been susceptible to the “Omigod it’s in the zip code -SWING!!!!” mentality in the last couple of weeks…..
If you're depressed, go check out HBO
Role Models never fails to disappoint. What a movie.
For Bobby.
1 week HBO boycott
due to the extreme, intensely horrible latest episode of Entourage…. Man that series has been like the ’10 Braves….
I would love
For a Brave to start dating Sasha Grey. Moylan seems like the obvious choice.
"I'm not even going to dignify myself with a resonse to that." - Ofc. Rod Farva
At least ZIPS still has us winng 60%/40%
God typed "iddqd" before creating Jason Heyward.
Jeez, i feel like Wes Mantooth in Anchorman.
Coming soon: winningugly visits Atlanta, takes dump in royhobbs’ Braves hat.
Me and Dorothy had a nice seafood dinner last night.
For Bobby.
by Scott Coleman on Sep 8, 2010 12:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm hoping being overtaken by the Phils will motivate this team.
Nothing else seems to be working of late, so I’m hoping the stark reality of this gets us some more patient at bats and hitting with RISP.
Maybe the pressure of hanging onto the lead got to everyone and now they can relax and chase instead – make the Phils scoreboard watch for a while.
"Curve: The loveliest distance between two points." ~ Mae West
Erm, you scoreboard watch...
When you’re behind, not ahead. The leader doesn’t need to worry about the opposition’s opposition — they just need to win games. As long as they, win, it doesn’t matter what happens elsewhere.
by JamesFromPhilly on Sep 8, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Speak for yourself
Ask any Padres, Yankees/Rays, or Twins fan who aren’t ardently concerned with what the close-by second place team is doing, even more so when the margin shrinks.
Now I agree with your assertions that those up front, shouldn’t concern themselves with what’s happening behind, because I believe that you do your job best when looking at is straight ahead, instead of constantly checking behind, but preach it to the choir, most everyone’s going to still be doing it, regardless.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
So, Who thinks Derek Lowe wins tonight???
I think his arm flares up on him and he struggles to get through a couple innings. Then, we return to the idea of…Should we have/or will we bring up Brandon Beachy? Does KK go back to starting?
Not a good scenario.
As a Brave fan, I think tonight’s game dictates where this team is heading. If we get swept by the worst team with a guy in the mound that is injured and can’t compete…there are going to be a lot of questions to be answered and negativity surrounding this team.
The season is not over, but we just lost the NL East lead b/c of our inability to beat the Pirates!
the only reason our offensive stats look decent...
is because once a week we manage to blow a team out and waste all our runs. The rest of the week we keep the games close and low scoring.
Just think of this.....
As the calm before the offensive storm the Braves are going to put up for the rest of the season.
If we would have predicted that at this point of the season we would be .5 games out of the division lead and one game ahead in the wild card would anyone have been ready to jump ship? I know I would have been pretty damn excited for the final few weeks of the season….as I still am.
We are ok, we are in a slump. Now we just need to see how we respond. Who knows, slipping out of 1st might just be the kick in the ass we needed to wake up and start playing inspired baseball again.
I still think we got this. Hopefully, this loss will kick the offense in the ass and get them to start hitting a hundred gazillionty times better in road games.
The Braves started their 16-3 run last year on September 8th. What day is today?
The birth of Jason Heyward was God’s punishment for the sins of the people in New York and Philly.
Hank Aaron was at the US Open last night
….he said it was because Kim Clijsters was one of his favorite players….I think it was to remember what was like to see someone actually hit a ball
/sorry…but these guys are giving me the blues
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