Braves Starter Medlen Injured, Is Minor Best Option To Take Over His Spot In The Rotation
by gondeee on Aug 4, 2010 11:09 PM EDT
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PrintBraves starting pitcher Kris Medlen had to leave the Wednesday night's game in the fifth inning after apparently injuring his ulnar collateral ligament in his pitching elbow. He will undergo an MRI on Thursday, but the chances are that the Braves will use every precaution with their young pitcher and give him at least some time on the disabled list.
While Medlen has started more games this year than last, he did pitch 105.1 innings last year between the Majors and minors, and coming into Wednesday's game had only thrown 103.1 innings this year. While the Braves have been watching his innings this season, he still should have at least another eight or nine starts left in him (if he is uninjured).
The Braves options if Kris Medlen cannot return are Kenshin Kawakami -- who has been banished to the bullpen since June 26th and made just one appearance of one inning since then -- and rookie Mike Minor, last year's number one draft pick by the Braves (seventh overall). Kawakami seems to have fallen out of favor with Bobby Cox and the Braves, and his lack of use in the past month means he may not be stretched out enough to return to a starting role so soon.
The Braves best option is likely Mike Minor. Medlen's turn in the rotation is next Monday, when the Braves play the Astros in Houston -- a perfect low-key place for Minor to make his debut against a weak and trade-depleted team. Minor also has plenty of innings left of his arm this year, having thrown just 118.2 innings between double-A and triple-A. Last year he totaled 140.2 innings between college and pro ball. He should have enough innings left for 10 to 12 more starts.
Minor is also the hot pitching hand in the Braves system right now. In his five starts at triple-A Gwinnett, Minor has an ERA of just 1.99 and a .171 average against. If he can carry just some of that over to the big leagues, then he could be a valuable piece to the Braves playoff run, and fill that final spot in the rotation.
Of course, we may be getting ahead of ourselves, as we'll have to wait and see what's wrong with Medlen and how long he'll be out. But if he is unable to pitch, then the Braves seem to be well positioned to replace him with a quality arm in the starting rotation.
If Minor is chosen over Kawakami for the possible rotation spot, what message does that send to KK? This may essentially mean the end of his Braves career. Though I can't imagine the Braves would just part with him in the middle of the pennant race, just in case he is needed as an emergency starter somewhere down the line.
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God, I am so sick of this ridiculous line of “argument” already, and it’s only been a few hours. Why people have so much hatred for Kawakami I will never understand. He’s the obvious choice. I’m not going to even elaborate; I already did it on the game thread and it should be apparent to anyone who’s thinking about this rationally anyway.
I’m sure someone else will take up the KK torch. I can’t take the prejudice any more.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
its the “shiny new toy” syndrome. it always is when there’s a new “hot” rookie.
"I should have followed Rhyno's advice..." Mr. Sanchez 06/18/2010
That explains why people love MM
but not why people have been hating on KK since he got here.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Aug 4, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
He got off to an unspectacular start last year
He finished the year with good numbers, but first impressions linger. Then the winless streak this year happened.
I don’t think Kimbrel would get the call up. They would want somebody who can be a long relief/potential starter.
by romone_braves91 on Aug 4, 2010 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Even when the situations have come up
We haven’t even seen him warming up. Regardless, the Braves will almost certainly call up Ortegano, Martinez, Kimbrel, or Marek before Minor, since those guys are all on the 40 man.
KK has 4 days to get stretched out to make a start. It’s not like he’s had the opportunity to get used to throwing one inning at a time.
hey that’s my educated guess. To be honest, there has really not been a situation where long relief was needed. Think about it. Hudson has been dealing. JJ has been dealing. Hanson and Lowe at least go to the 6th inning. Meds flirts with the 6th inning every now and then. By the time it turns over to the pen, the usual suspects show up to finish the game.
by romone_braves91 on Aug 4, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Lost a starter today in the fourth inning
He didn’t pitch. We’ve had plenty of extra inning situations where we’ve been on the verge of going to a long man, and he hasn’t been used.
And no one can explain why
because his numbers pitching wise, at least aside from W-L, show he was pitching at least adequately and deserving of more work.
Today was a perfect chance to use him.
Not only that, but it would be the perfect chance to get him a little bit stretched out if they were worried about his arm not being stretched out for whatever reason.
The Braves didn’t. They should just waive KK so he can go pitch for the Phillies and punish the Braves.
by DogDaysofSummer on Aug 4, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I like KK
I was the one that was piss that he was banish to the pen after a W. If I had a choice for which starter to get the boot it would be Lowe. I don’t understand why KK is getting treated like dog shit. It has to be something behind the scene that we don’t know about.
by romone_braves91 on Aug 4, 2010 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
no wins means you are no good
didn’t you get the memo?
by DogDaysofSummer on Aug 4, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
KK isn't going to get the benefit of the doubt here
There peripherals are similar, with Lowe being better for the most part. On top of that, Lowe has been in the rotation all year and has a proven track record in the bigs.
I agree, having Kawakami as a dead spot in the bullpen just isn’t smart – especially with the major innings of Moylan and Venters who will need rest eventually.
by Buffalo Braves on Aug 4, 2010 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions
its shows bobby has no trust in KK
when instead of brining him in for long-relief he brought in Dunn
Jason Heyward...great guy
yes I noticed...but
My wife being Japanese does not sway me in that I think he has not made adjustments enough to keep the ball in the park….maybe the braves need to get a copy of that PS3 game and figure out how he pitched to get that No-No?
Yes, I think he will be slotted into Medlins spot so I can only hope he has had time to be ready to step up his game…go braves!
HE ISN'T HOMER PRONE
He is almost EXACTLY league average in HR/9, etc. Where do people come up with this shit?
by Andy Braves Fan on Aug 5, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
From the same place that they come up with the “Melky sucks!” and “KJ sucks” and just about any other player “sucks” arguments.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 5, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
No he doesn’t.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 6, 2010 3:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I 100% agree with you
but Cox’s comments… ""I don’t know," Cox said when asked if he’d turn to Kawakami. “He hasn’t pitched in so long.” sound to me like he is soured on KK.
Bring up Teheran he throwz no hitterz
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
______________
Nothing is worse than the end of the chip bag.
by MBL1 on Aug 4, 2010 11:14 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
If this was 2005, bringing up Teheran would not have shocked me. That was a crazy year b/c everybody was getting the call up.
by romone_braves91 on Aug 4, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
hell, I thought I might even get a call that year
"I should have followed Rhyno's advice..." Mr. Sanchez 06/18/2010
haha
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
______________
Nothing is worse than the end of the chip bag.
by MBL1 on Aug 4, 2010 11:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
don’t laugh, I was “gritty”, a “gamer” and I “hustled”.
Oh, wait…that was from a college scouting report on me after my senior year of high school, in 1992. By 2005, I was a fat basement dwelling stat nerd.
"I should have followed Rhyno's advice..." Mr. Sanchez 06/18/2010
Good for you!
The first step toward recovery is admitting that you have a problem.
Don't kiss an ass if it's in the process of shitting on you.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
Lol, good story about that
Went to a game with some of my friends that year. Braves were desperate for outfield help and called up Kelly Johnson like, just prior to the game. None of us knew about it before we got to the park, but we saw the opening line-up on the scoreboard and “Johnson” penciled in at Left Field. So it happens one of the guys I was there was named Johnson-we asked him if he was suiting for the game.
That’s hilarious.
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
______________
Nothing is worse than the end of the chip bag.
by MBL1 on Aug 4, 2010 11:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I thought so. Plus, Kelly Johnson wasn’t a big enough prospect that I even knew who he was, at the time.
Cue justinbomb!
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
______________
Nothing is worse than the end of the chip bag.
by MBL1 on Aug 4, 2010 11:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Fail.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 5, 2010 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions
This should be a fun thread
I’ll bet that it’s over 200 comments by tomorrow morning…assuming Justin has computer access.
when is Frank Wren going to wake his Ass up and see the Braves needs a Batter? This game Against Washington is Showing the team is not hitting. Get some help are philadelphia is going bnack to First? If you can’t see this maybe john scherhous should replace your stupid ass.
by jayball on Jul 27, 2010 5:41 PM MST
Kenshin Kawakami
We have traded away great players for less than nothing and let Texierra walk away, and much much more so pray that Hayward is sent from God and that his energy can ignite the veterans and cause the younger players to hustle more and play winning baseball...
Chris Resop
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
______________
Nothing is worse than the end of the chip bag.
by MBL1 on Aug 4, 2010 11:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Brad Woodall.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Tom Thobe
The birth of Jason Heyward was God’s punishment for the sins of the people in New York and Philly.
John Ennis.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Seth Greisinger
The birth of Jason Heyward was God’s punishment for the sins of the people in New York and Philly.
Adam Bernero
The birth of Jason Heyward was God’s punishment for the sins of the people in New York and Philly.
Aaron Small
The birth of Jason Heyward was God’s punishment for the sins of the people in New York and Philly.
Adam Butler
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Chris Brock
The birth of Jason Heyward was God’s punishment for the sins of the people in New York and Philly.
Derrin Ebert
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Paul Marak
The birth of Jason Heyward was God’s punishment for the sins of the people in New York and Philly.
Terry Clark
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Matt Murray
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Alejandro Pena
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 5, 2010 2:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Juan beringuer
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
~Earl Wilson
by BeantownVol on Aug 5, 2010 6:40 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Chad Paronto.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 5, 2010 7:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Resop would be nice right about now...
he could at least fill in for KK as the long relief man, if not start.
Pacgnosis too. Dude loves KK.
when is Frank Wren going to wake his Ass up and see the Braves needs a Batter? This game Against Washington is Showing the team is not hitting. Get some help are philadelphia is going bnack to First? If you can’t see this maybe john scherhous should replace your stupid ass.
by jayball on Jul 27, 2010 5:41 PM MST
by Scott Coleman on Aug 4, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Mike Minor has a FIP of 2.50 in 30+ innings at AAA with a 3.4% HR/FB. So his xFIP is probably somewhere around 3.00 and his MLE (major league equivalency) xFIP is probably about 4.00. I’d take that over Kawakami’s 4.50 xFIP.
Plus Minor’s a high GB% guy; a lot to love there.
Cygnusxs vs. Pacgnosis stat battle….
3….2….1…GO!
when is Frank Wren going to wake his Ass up and see the Braves needs a Batter? This game Against Washington is Showing the team is not hitting. Get some help are philadelphia is going bnack to First? If you can’t see this maybe john scherhous should replace your stupid ass.
by jayball on Jul 27, 2010 5:41 PM MST
by Scott Coleman on Aug 4, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
it will be epic. even better than lobsters with knives
"I should have followed Rhyno's advice..." Mr. Sanchez 06/18/2010
or Brick with a trident and hand grenade
when is Frank Wren going to wake his Ass up and see the Braves needs a Batter? This game Against Washington is Showing the team is not hitting. Get some help are philadelphia is going bnack to First? If you can’t see this maybe john scherhous should replace your stupid ass.
by jayball on Jul 27, 2010 5:41 PM MST
by Scott Coleman on Aug 4, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
It is what it is.
But I’m more than ready to agree that there’s enough room for regression for Minor to pitch at the same or just below the level of Kawakami going forward the rest of this season. Doesn’t mean I wouldn’t like to take the chance.
Just saying
We’ve got a larger sample of him at AA, where he threw 90innings, and he posted only a 3.44 FIP (that’s a ML equivalent of 5.37). Those 90 innings seem more valid than the 32.1 innings he’s thrown at Gwinnett just because…it’s a 3x larger sample.
To an extent, but there's more too it with prospects
What Minor was doing in April and May is much less relevant to how good he is right now that what he’s done in his last few starts. Prospects improve over the course of the year, they’re not like veteran major leaguers where they have an established true talent level we can expect them to regress to. Minor struggled with his control early in the season, but now seems to command his added velocity much better.
The other thing to keep in mind is that Minor is an unknown to major league hitters, while KK isn’t. The Braves have a chance to possibly exploit the fact that hitters don’t know Minor nearly as well. This seems to help rookies many times, and without actually looking at it, I could see it helping LHP even more so than RHP.
The same thing you're pointing about possibly helping him at the ML level
May well be helping him out in the IL. He’s new to players there who don’t have scouting reports on him. I’d be much happier if we let him see a few teams a second or third time to see how they handle him before we decide that he’s ready for the big leagues.
Why wait?
Its not like this has to be a permanent move. If he struggles or anything, you can send him back down. You don’t even need to start him in the bigs next year. If we can catch lightning in a bottle with him this season, that’s all that really matters. He has plenty of time to learn about facing teams for a second or third time next season.
The way I look at it, Minor is more stretched out right now, he’s pitching better, he has better raw stuff, and hitters don’t know him as well. We might as well try to exploit it. The fact that he’s left handed is just an added bonus. I say give it a try and if it doesn’t work, cut bait. Minor is a mature guy who has dealt with struggles before. I don’t think a few rough outings at the beginning of his ML career will affect him long term like it could some other guys.
Wait because you don't want to start his arbitration clock
That’s really what it comes down to. We don’t have room for him in the rotation next year, so there’s no sense in getting him started on that path until we have the opportunity to use him. Unless we decide that we’d rather trade him and see what we can get for him in a deal in the offseason-that would be a different story.
His arbitration clock doesn't matter if he doesn't start next year in the bigs
As soon as he gets optioned back to minors, it stops ticking. Even if you call him up right now and keep him up the entire time you get 6 more years after this one, but if they really want to manipulate it, they can easily get it to 7, which takes him through the age of 29. Arbitration clock is a terrible reason not to call him up at this point.
I think Minor compares to David Price no? Both throw 97 heaters. (Just asking)
by romone_braves91 on Aug 4, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
No. I did not think about that til u just said it. I only bring up David Price b/c he is a lefty as well.
by romone_braves91 on Aug 4, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think Minor throws that hard...
Maybe as a max. He definitely doesn’t sit that high.
oh ok. I have some knowledge of Minor but not a lot.
by romone_braves91 on Aug 4, 2010 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
MLE = Major League Equivalent
He’s adjusting for the fact that AAA =/= MLB
soo
explain why we haven’t seen McLouth perform above the level he’s performing in the minors in the majors?
by drumzalicious on Aug 5, 2010 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe you should have looked at McLouth's MLE first
.232/.267/.393
I’d take the proven major leaguer who is already on the roster, but that’s just me…
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 5, 2010 2:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Hopefully, we don't lose Medlen to season ending surgery
I think it’s almost a guarantee that Medlen is going to get DL. Personally, I would be in favor of KK reclaiming his starter spot. However, I am not sure he would be ready by next Monday.
If Medlen is out for an extended period, KK should be allowed to get stretched and reclaim his starting spot, while Minor spot start once or twice.
by LEastCoastBears on Aug 4, 2010 11:24 PM EDT reply actions
Very nice
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
______________
Nothing is worse than the end of the chip bag.
by MBL1 on Aug 4, 2010 11:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
There’s an ad on the homepage wanting me to take an IQ test. It says the average Braves’ fan IQ is 88…….
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
______________
Nothing is worse than the end of the chip bag.
by MBL1 on Aug 4, 2010 11:29 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
It’s all your fault!
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
______________
Nothing is worse than the end of the chip bag.
by MBL1 on Aug 4, 2010 11:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Somehow this debate seems to completely...
ignore that fact too. But no, let’s keep a $10m wasted roster spot on an effective P who’s proven as good as the average 4th/5th starter.
If Minor, Freeman, Adrolis Chapman get the call up,
this will go hands down as potentially one the greatest rookie class of all time.
by romone_braves91 on Aug 4, 2010 11:37 PM EDT reply actions
Jason Heyward, Mike Staton, Ike Davis, Stephen Strasburg, Venters, Garcia, Austin Jackson, Mike Leake, Drew Storen, Buster Posey, Justin Smoak, etc. (If I am missing somebody plz let me know)
by romone_braves91 on Aug 4, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Gaby Sanchez, Tyler Colvin.
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
______________
Nothing is worse than the end of the chip bag.
by MBL1 on Aug 4, 2010 11:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Neftali Feliz, Dominic Brown
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
______________
Nothing is worse than the end of the chip bag.
by MBL1 on Aug 4, 2010 11:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I keep hearing him mentioned in ROY talks…so I guess he is
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
______________
Nothing is worse than the end of the chip bag.
by MBL1 on Aug 4, 2010 11:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Probably didn’t pitch enough for that to “officially” be his rookie year. I could be wrong, though
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
______________
Nothing is worse than the end of the chip bag.
by MBL1 on Aug 5, 2010 12:04 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
For that qualification
Doesn’t matter how long he was with the team last year, it’s his inning count, I’m pretty sure. And he didn’t pitch enough innings to qualify as “not a rookie.” It happens to a lot of relievers, who essentially are counted as rookies in their second year because of where the innings limit is for qualifying.
The rookie restrictions for MLB are 130 at bats for a hitter, 50 innings for a pitcher, or 45 non September days in the Majors.
Feliz wasn’t called up until the start of August, so while he had 2 months in the Majors last year, only the 27 or so days he had in August counted, thus, he’s still a rookie this year.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Here's some more
Starlin Castro (not a big deal this year but he should be in the future)
Jose Tabata
Pedro Alvarez
Scott Sizemore
John Ely
Brad Lincoln
Hisanori Takahashi
Logan Morrison
Josh Bell
Hellickson just got called up. There’s probably a good rookie for every team in MLB.
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
______________
Nothing is worse than the end of the chip bag.
by MBL1 on Aug 4, 2010 11:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Was he?
That’s another big name worth mentioning.
It’s probably also worth mentioning Wade Davis, who I think still qualifies as a rookie for this year, even though he pitched 30 innings last year. Tampa has some young pitching talent…
Pedro Alvarez?
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Just adding to your list. Also, did Moustakas come up yet?
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Pedro Alvarez was on my list
I was confused as to whether you wondering if he deserved to be in it, or had a question about him, or….apparently you just didn’t see him on the list.
Oh, duh
Sorry.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Jon Niese?
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Because they seriously rushed him
It’s almost unheard of for pitchers to debut at age 20. He’s a guy that probably could have used maybe even TWO more years in the minors. I still think he’ll be a big name pitcher in the future.
Mous
won’t be up until 2011, at the earliest. he’s only in AA. He’s killing it, but it’s only AA.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Aug 5, 2010 5:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, he made his debut recently. Gosh, this rookie class is huge. Of course, Jason Heyward pwns everyone.
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
______________
Nothing is worse than the end of the chip bag.
by MBL1 on Aug 5, 2010 12:01 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I honestly don't think those three names you mentioned will make much of a difference
Maybe Chapman, but he’s so raw that he really does need more time, and may not be too impressive this year.
You’re missing, most notably, Carlos Santana.
I like how you tossed Venters in there…lol.
Hey I am a Homer what can I say. Go Braves!
by romone_braves91 on Aug 4, 2010 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I like how you tossed Venters in there…lol.
He has better numbers than 90% of the relievers in baseball. That’s pretty good….I guess.
when is Frank Wren going to wake his Ass up and see the Braves needs a Batter? This game Against Washington is Showing the team is not hitting. Get some help are philadelphia is going bnack to First? If you can’t see this maybe john scherhous should replace your stupid ass.
by jayball on Jul 27, 2010 5:41 PM MST
by Scott Coleman on Aug 4, 2010 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Shouldn’t be though.
when is Frank Wren going to wake his Ass up and see the Braves needs a Batter? This game Against Washington is Showing the team is not hitting. Get some help are philadelphia is going bnack to First? If you can’t see this maybe john scherhous should replace your stupid ass.
by jayball on Jul 27, 2010 5:41 PM MST
by Scott Coleman on Aug 4, 2010 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't see why he should be included in those
Relief pitchers just aren’t that valuable. With almost all of those other names, we’re looking at guys who may well become superstars in their careers. I understand being a homer and wanting to get your own guy on the list, but he’s not even the most valuable rookie RP in the NL. That’s John Axford.
relief pitchers arent that valuable?
look at the Diamondbacks. That team has so many blown saves its ridiculous
by drumzalicious on Aug 5, 2010 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't see you point
Yes, some relievers are really bad. Some teams have bad relief pitching. If anything, this reinforces my argument because you have a collection of guys in Arizona who, in 2009, were very solid: Juan Gutierrez, Chad Qualls, Bob Howry, DJ Corrasco. They’re judged entirely on smaller sample sizes so, year to year, there can be a lot of fluctuation in their production.
If you think the bullpen is the sole cause of Arizona’s failures this year, you need to reassess that line of thinking a bit. They came into the season with one good starter, one average starter, two below average starters, and no real idea who would be their 5th starter (which led to the whole Dontrelle Willis fiasco). They’re not an exceptionally good defensive club. They don’t stand out offensively-Mark Reynolds was good last year, but overall he’s nothing special, and Adam LaRoche doesn’t provide what you hope for in a first baseman. Justin Upton and Stephen Drew didn’t take the steps forward that they would like, and they didn’t have a decent left fielder either-that was a lot of Conor Jackson, Rusty Ryal, and Gerrardo Parra.
They weren’t a very good team. The fact that they’ve had 16 blown saves doesn’t cover up that fact-that’s a whopping three more than we’ve had, and it’s three fewer blown saves than the Marlins have had. Sure, if they were as successful in the bullpen as, say, the Padres (best in the majors), they might be 47-60 instead of 40-67. That’s a 7 win difference as a unit between the best and worst. I don’t see a single relief pitcher as being all that valuable in the grand scheme.
many.
and went through about 1 closer per year in that span as well.
by Andy Braves Fan on Aug 5, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Patchwork maybe...
but we patched it with quality producers; Hammond, Ligtenberg, Remlinger, etc. And when our patches were bad; Kolb, Wickman, etc, it showed big time in the end result.
and thus
proving my point. Ligtenberg, for instance, was a scrap heap guy who had been released as I recall, played in the independent league (correct?). quality relief arms are simply easy to find.
by Andy Braves Fan on Aug 5, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess I just disagree on their easiness...
yes the Braves seem to o a good job of finding quality off the scrap heap, as Ligtenberg, Hammond, Rudy Seanez, and others show. But then there are just as many clubs who seem to costantly fail at finding them, such as the DBacks this year, among others. If it was that easy, wouldn’t everyone be able to find guys, or replace those underperforming with quality contributors?
We had a great bullpen last year
Didn’t help get us into the playoffs. Citing singular examples doesn’t prove much.
I’m certainly not saying that every relief pitcher is a 0 sum value. But when people were essentially comparing Venters against Heyward, Stanton, Strasburg, Posey, Leake, and Colvin, they were doing those names a great injustice because he just doesn’t have that much value. He’s been good for us, borderline great, but being a great relief pitcher just doesn’t mean as much as being a great regular or starting pitcher.
Fair enough...
and I agree that a good reliever is not as valuable as a good starter or position player.
we just disagree
on how valuable a reliever is
by drumzalicious on Aug 5, 2010 4:24 AM EDT up reply actions
People say relievers aren't that valuable...
until they lack good, reliable relievers. Then they realize just how valuable they are. Agree on Axford being another good one too.
People don't say that
People say relievers aren’t as valuable and are easier to find than good starters/hitters.
by Andy Braves Fan on Aug 5, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
To a point it is true
Relievers aren’t that valuable. In fact, often over-rated. But the “that valuable” part is a comment on their relative value.
by Andy Braves Fan on Aug 5, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
They are over-rated, but under-valued…ponder that one for a bit…
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 5, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
haha
interesting. I think nixa had it right. A bullpen as a whole unit is important. And yes, you need quality pieces to get a quality bullpen. However, individual bullpen “aces” are over valued and over-rated. Just look at what the Nats got for Matt Capps. You can’t say that he wasn’t both over-rated and over-valued.
by Andy Braves Fan on Aug 5, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
But now you're getting into individual cases...
where some will be overed and some undered. The point is a quality, reliable reliever is a valuable part of a ball club. I relate it kind of like a valuable OL in football, or a valuable K or long snapper. Some individuals will be over rated, some will be under rated, but you must be good at those spots or it creates huge problems. Hence my comment earlier that people will talk about how they aren’t valuable, until they get a bad one and see just how valable good ones really are.
but good ones aren’t really all that hard to find. Some of the best relievers are failed starters. See Rivera, Mariano, and Venters, Jonny. There are honestly TONS of failed starters out there.
Not saying good relievers aren’t valuable, but they are just so common.
by Andy Braves Fan on Aug 5, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
A single reliever isn't that valuable
The bullpen as a whole is quite valuable. 7>1
Oh I forgot the Carlos Santana from Indians (man I hope his leg injury isn’t serious)
by romone_braves91 on Aug 4, 2010 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Brennan Boesch
I could have included him, but I honestly think he’s lightning in a bottle. Makes me think a little bit of Cris Shelton, who had that really hot start for the Tigers a few years ago. I don’t think he’ll be a significant part of this class in a few years.
Uh
Are you really advocating MM over KK? This is pretty absurd.
I fed a fish to a pelican and Frisco bay and he tried to eat my cell phone he ran away
From DOB
Funny quote from Chipper when I asked if he’s feeling like the old Chipper. He smirked and said, “No, I’m feeling like the OLD Chipper.”
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
______________
Nothing is worse than the end of the chip bag.
by MBL1 on Aug 4, 2010 11:46 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I wonder if all of us are following the same ppl on twitter.
by romone_braves91 on Aug 4, 2010 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t have a Twitter, but i check dob’s and Cyborg’s every day. :) we probably all follow a lot of Braves twitters.
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
______________
Nothing is worse than the end of the chip bag.
by MBL1 on Aug 4, 2010 11:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He's using the
Cold Blooded + Ninja perk on COD: Modern Warfare 2 and can’t be found.
Is there a way
To send a specific user a message?
No, unfortunately. I wish there was.
when is Frank Wren going to wake his Ass up and see the Braves needs a Batter? This game Against Washington is Showing the team is not hitting. Get some help are philadelphia is going bnack to First? If you can’t see this maybe john scherhous should replace your stupid ass.
by jayball on Jul 27, 2010 5:41 PM MST
by Scott Coleman on Aug 4, 2010 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
There should be. Someone should suggest that to sbn.
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
______________
Nothing is worse than the end of the chip bag.
by MBL1 on Aug 4, 2010 11:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
it's rather simple....
Braves should have a 10 man rotation.
1. Hudson
2. JJ
3. Hanson
4. Lowe
5. KK
6. Minor
7. Teheran
8. Delgado
All they need to do now is convince Bud Selig and MLB to expand the roster to 30.
by romone_braves91 on Aug 4, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I say call Minor up if the spot becomes open. He’s so freaking hot right now in AAA that it’s bound to carry over. Most rookies, especially pitchers, come out of the gate hot in their ML careers, so that can only help in a playoff hunt.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
hey, you do the minor league write ups sometimes right? If so, you should be able to tell us the heads up on Minor better than anybody else.
by romone_braves91 on Aug 5, 2010 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Tall skinny lefty. Apparently he’s gotten his fastball up to 96 at times this year, but I don’t think he generally throws that hard. The night I saw him throw in AA he really only threw the fastball, between 89 and 93, and the slider, between 78 and 82. Basically, the way he threw them they looked like 4 different pitches. He’s supposed to have a decent changeup but I didn’t see it that night.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Personally
i think KK is a better option
But i do believe Minor will get the nod
Bobby showed he has little trust in KK by bringing in Dunn for Long Relief tonight
Minor is hot and i think this could be his time
Jason Heyward...great guy
Dunn only pitched 1.1 IP last night, right?
And he got the last out in the fifth (when Medlen went out) on 5 pitches…I was only listening on the radio…never get to see the games
Goodnight ya'll
Movie night = epic fail
reading for Evidence, Immigration, CrimLaw, = epic fail
Braves game = WIN!
While we're at it....
How bout we stick Cox in center? It can’t hurt!
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
______________
Nothing is worse than the end of the chip bag.
by MBL1 on Aug 5, 2010 12:26 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Mike Minor.
KK has a record well under .500 in his braves career. if you can’t win, you can’t afford to be in the rotation. I think Cox will see this
Hockey is my oxygen, football is my food, and baseball is my water. I'd say basketball is my shelter, but I'd rather not lie.
by truheelzfan44 on Aug 5, 2010 12:35 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
By that logic, Minor isn’t a great choice either. He has a 6-8 career record.
Wins and losses are about the least effective way to judge a pitcher.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
If KK started.. say 10 more games id confidently say he could win one or two, we’ll see who’s face palming if he starts
Hockey is my oxygen, football is my food, and baseball is my water. I'd say basketball is my shelter, but I'd rather not lie.
by truheelzfan44 on Aug 5, 2010 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I am seriously considering this for my new signature.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 5, 2010 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t even understand what he wrote. It’s either drivel or genius.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
hahaha
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 5, 2010 4:12 AM EDT up reply actions
The real question is, is it better than my current sig? I can make out what this trueheelzfan is saying more so than what my current signature is trying to say.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 5, 2010 4:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I was explaining this situation to a fellow Braves fan/friend of mine tonight, and she said we should absolutely go with Minor. Her reasoning being that KK is bad luck. I facepalmed.
I don’t really have an opinion either way. I’d feel super bad for KK if he doesn’t get the nod, but I’m also excited at the prospect of having a lefty in the rotation. But in such crucial times as these, I know that even though KK has had a hard time actually getting WINZ, he has good stuff and experience in the majors. So basically… whatever.
KK are bad luck.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. It’s an ancient japanese curse. How else do you explain the the complete lack of hitting in his starts unless he gives up enough runs to where it doesnt matter, the ridiculous outfield collision that lost that game, or the equally crazy bullpen collapse (that was luckily saved by the ump, we probably should’ve lost that game).
So what you’re saying is he needs to see a penny, pick it up and all year long he’ll have good luck?
I have a hard time believing that KK is just bad juju. But then again, the day we ended our 9 game losing streak happened to be the same day I changed my ringtone to something other than the Tomahawk Chop.
nothing against KK
but we’ve been there, done that and no matter how you slice it the results have been frustrating. Throw someone else out there and see what they can do. Whoever mentioned arbitration earlier, screw that, by the time that even matters Teheran and Delgado should be in our rotation, and that is so far down the line right now anyway.
Correction: The OFFENSIVE results have been frustrating.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 5, 2010 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm torn
logic says to go with KK. With him we at least know what we are getting. Minor is such a wild card that he could be the next Jo Jo Reyes for all we know. By now we should know better than to think someone tearing up AAA means they will succeed in the Majors.
On the other side of that KK isn’t stretched out at all. With that said we would almost definitely need to promote Christian Martinez because his first start or two would have to be a split start. At least in that situation we dont have someone sitting in our pen rotting.
Going to sound weird to say it but kinda sucks that we just released Resop.
BTW there are other options in AAA who could be promoted namely Scott Diamond. While not quite the prospect that Minor is he would allow us to not rush Minor.
I’m just not convinced that Minor wont come up and start walking a ton of guys like he was earlier this year.
oh as for my actual vote
i say Scott Diamond and just actually use KK out of the pen instead of him rotting. DL Medlen until September when rosters expand.
by drumzalicious on Aug 5, 2010 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions
This is about like saying if Glaus gets hurt do we go with Hinske or call up Freeman.
It’s a no-brainer. KK SHOULD be our 5th again.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 5, 2010 2:39 AM EDT reply actions
I don’t understand your argument. If Glaus gets hurt we should go with Freeman, not Hinske.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
no
If Glaus gets hurt we should go with Prado and Infante at 1B and 2B
by drumzalicious on Aug 5, 2010 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Infante’s biggest value is that he’s a utility player who is available on any given day to fill in at multiple positions. If you lock him into one position you’re taking away one of the most important things the team has, a super-utility player.
And sure, you can replace him on the bench with Diory Hernandez or Brandon Hicks, but the question is would you rather have Prado and Infante starting with Hernandez and Conrad on the bench, meaning that Infante isn’t as available to fill in at SS, 2B, and 3B, or Prado and Freeman with Infante and Conrad on the bench, which not only makes your bench stronger but keeps Infante’s flexibility. And keep in mind that it’s not Freeman vs. Infante, it’s Freeman vs. Glaus, because Infante’s production is already on the team. All you’re asking is that Freeman beats out Glaus’ sub .600 OPS since the start of July, which seems very plausible, not that he beats out Infante’s stats, and you’ve improved your team without hurting your depth.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
if Infante continues playing well then yes, I would rather him take over 1B while Glaus is out for a couple of weeks just because we know we are going to get production.
I’m a big Freeman fan however he is still an unknown and there is no guarantee that he will come up and do anything
by drumzalicious on Aug 5, 2010 4:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I feel like you missed the argument. All he has to do is outproduce Glaus’ last couple months, which would be almost a sure thing, and Freeman is an upgrade and you’ve kept your roster flexibility. It’s really a no-brainer.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
not a bad idea...
Since he proved he still has pop in his bat…but would he be around next year and for how much?
we dont need him next year
only this year.
If you’re referring to Chipper Jones retiring then we have a ton of in house options i would rather see get a shot than us sign someone like Lowell to play 3B or Beltre someone who is having a career year.
by drumzalicious on Aug 5, 2010 4:29 AM EDT up reply actions
and who
do we have to play 3B? Prado could next year. But who’s at 2B? Don’t say Infante b/c, again, he’s best suited as a super-utility guy.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Aug 5, 2010 6:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Granted, it isn’t the strongest, but it was the first that popped into my head.
Either way, I don’t think this should even really be up for debate. We have a proven starter who has pitched pretty damned well for us for 1.5 years now, who is also making $6M, and he is just rotting away in the deep dark depths of the bullpen. If we call up Minor to be in the rotation, I am going to seriously rethink my position on Frank Wren’s awesomeness.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 5, 2010 4:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I could see the argument...
that it depends on the injury. If they are out for just the two weeks or so, then why start the clock on Freeman or Minor for a short stint when you have a reasonable option already on the 40 man who can fill the job adequately. If Medlen (or Glaus) was to be down for the long haul, then in my mind the kids make a bit more sense since they would be considered the long term replacements (as it seems Freeman starts 2011 at 1B, and I think Minor should be in the rotation to start next year).
I also say go with Minor
He would add a left arm to the rotation which we could greatly use, he is much more stretched out and ready to go, and he is hot right now. His results, albeit in the minors, have been much more impressive this season.
Call the kid up. Bring Freeman up with him and they can carpool.
60% of the time, it works every time
His results have no bearing on the question. What would KK’s results be against minor leaguers this season?
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 5, 2010 4:14 AM EDT up reply actions
AMAZING
since apparently everyone is doing well in AAA. Seems to me like AAA isn’t so hard this year with all of the good prospects getting called up
by drumzalicious on Aug 5, 2010 4:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Isn’t AA supposed to be a harder league anyway?
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 5, 2010 4:48 AM EDT up reply actions
bigger jump
in quality of players from A to AA than AA to AAA.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Aug 5, 2010 6:03 AM EDT up reply actions
There’s no reason to not give it to KK. Bringing up MInor now takes a year we have full control away, and I’m not entirely convinced he’s ready yet- sample size is too small.
I want hm in AAA until att least Spring next year, if not June.
KK also diidn’t lose his spot due to sucking, just Medlen being better.
Give him a shot at least.
We need to stop worrying about contract issues (arbitration clocks, etc.). We are in a pennant race right now…one that is looking more grim by the day. Who gives a shit if Minor turns out to be a serviceable player and we end up paying an extra $750,00 three years from now? Nobody is going to flog Wren for that given the present circumstances.
The ONLY question that should guide this decision is this – are the Braves better off on the field, right now, with Minor (inexperienced, but healthy, strong, pitching well and a lefty starter) or KK (experienced but..well, fuck it, we know this debate…).
I think reasonable minds can disagree on that argument (although opinions on KK seem to be unreasonably polarized – he’s not the worst ever, but he’s not good either) and this debate will likely reemerge depending on Medlen’s health (do we shut him down for the season, ease him into the fold, etc). But what we CAN’T continue to do is let longterm chickenshit guide these debates.
We have one goal and one goal only – give Bobby Cox the retirement present he deserves and give loyal Braves fans something they haven’t tasted in FIVE years – the fucking postseason!
Bringing up Minor now doesn't take a year of full control away
Even if he’s brought up now, we still have him for 6 years after this one. If we were to keep him down for a few weeks next year, we could easily up it to 7 years. The arbitration clock argument isn’t a good one.
I vote for a KK and Minor
Tag team combo WWE style, complete with the use of folding chairs, neon colored unis, and really awesome intro music…
Crazy!
I just started watching that movie for the first time yesterday.
Don't kiss an ass if it's in the process of shitting on you.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
How is this a question?...
Yes, Minor has done well. But bringing him up means Kenshin still rots in the pen, and we all seem to agree he’s too good for that. He’s not a great pitcher, but he’s done more than well enough in his time here. It’s strange to see him used only once in the last several weeks, but the man has proven himself a good enough P. He was quoted in the fanshotted article from the AJC that his role was to be the 6th starter, ready to fill in when someone went down. That’s the role the Braves powers told him he’d fill a month ago when he left the rotation. Well, someone went down, and he’s ready to fill in, so unless the management lied to him, he takes Medlen’s spot. If we have any desire to move him, he has to pitch.
Whatever happens
I’m just glad we didn’t trade Minor and now have the option to use him if need be.
Kawakami - 1, Halladay - 0
asked directly about Kawakami, Cox offered this: "I don’t know right now. He hasn’t pitched in so long."
Gee, if there was only some way the manager could gain control over getting KK in the game.
Also, this gem from Mark Bradley: (Warning:you may go blind)
You can cite a lack of run support and a run of rotten luck, but the cold truth is that this pitcher opened the season 0-9. His record as a Brave is 8-19. He’s not even a fifth starter. He might be a seventh starter, which means he should be in Class AAA.
Coming soon: winningugly visits Atlanta, takes dump in royhobbs’ Braves hat.
Mark Bradley is now officially the most retarded sports writer in circulation today.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 5, 2010 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions
he already was
about half of the stuff he writes makes me think hes a mets fan
What can be said about him that hasn't already been said? His every adjustment is a gift, his every at-bat a festival, his every swing a cool dewy breeze tinged with raspberry and incense. The only question is whether he'll win multiple MVPs or merely the Nobel Prize for Looking Like He Has Been There Before.
False.
Jeff Schultz is.
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
______________
Nothing is worse than the end of the chip bag.
Confidence in KK
No matter the stats, after reading the DOB interview with KK, it really doesn’t matter what we think as fans. The Braves have no confidence in KK because he alludes absolutely no confidence in himself.
Q. But if a starter went down, could you step in and go five innings right now?
A. To be honest, I don’t know about my stamina or how my body will feel when that time might come, hopefully not. But I believe that’s my role, to step in if that ever does happen. So [I] always try to be prepared for it.
So, a guy doubts his ability to pitch effectively at the highest level of competition – based on the simple fact that he has not been used in over a month – and you criticize him for it.
Great. This is all KK’s fault now.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 5, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
In my opinion, if you doubt yourself at this level, you should be exactly where he is. Sitting his ass in the bullpen. Bring up the kid who probably relishes the fact he is getting a chance to prove himself instead of a guy moping about the chance to RE-prove himself.
We can hem-haw around about stats all day- the fact is the Braves don’t think KK can provide what they need or what they paid for (hold your Lowe argument please, heard it a thousand times). And now that he is in the bull pen, he does an interview saying that’s not what he came over here for. Give me the kid, someone the team will rally around, not the moper that forces the team to rally around him by default.
by CharlotteChop on Aug 5, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I read that interview too
I think you nailed it. I have no problem with KK’s stats, ability, record, peripherals, or anything else. I think he’s a pretty good pitcher. But his confidense seems shot. I vote Minor.
Heyward is pretty good
He isn’t doubting his ability to pitch. He is doubting his ability to pitch for an extended period of time – which is perfectly logical, given that as a SP, he hasn’t seen the mound in over a month.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 5, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Well as a starting pitcher that has been pitching for a good portion of his life, throwing 5 innings (roughly 90 pitches) should not be a big deal AT ALL if he is keeping himself in proper shape while out of action. Not a good argument in my opinion, b/c he IS exactly doubting his ability to pitch.
Q. How much have you been able to throw on the side and stay in shape and ready in case you’re needed to pitch several innings or make a spot start?
A. I try to go in there every other day or once every three days, just to keep myself motivated and to work on my pitches.
I don’t know what it takes to keep his stamina – or a good amount of work to determine whether he is working hard or not to stay in shape. But I know this, the Braves know whether or not he’s properly prepared himself being one injury away from being back in the rotation.
by CharlotteChop on Aug 5, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Starting pitchers cannot sit out a month and then be expected to magically come back and pitch effectively. That’s why they go on rehab pitching assignments before coming back to pitch.
You are looking for something that isn’t there, yet you are going with it anyway.
Personally, I just wish KK wasn’t prone to the HR.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 5, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
pitching against live hitting in a game setting is much different than just typical maintenance.
by Andy Braves Fan on Aug 5, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Agree with you both – and I don’t agree with how the Braves have let him rot in the pen. But KK doesn’t seem to be doing anything to garner organizational confidence and to me, it’s on him to re-claim that. And he’s not doing “whatever it takes” (i know, cliche) to be ready at a moment’s notice. Its a tough deal. He can’t be expected to walk out and go CG or eve 7-8 but come on, 5 IP- or even pitch limit, is that TOO much to ask in an emergency? He can’t be expected to do that effectively? I think you are contradicting your own argument of his potential if he can’t make a short start (~90 pitches) with confidence. Shit, even if he isn’t confident- tell the dam reporter you ARE.
by CharlotteChop on Aug 5, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Thing is, he has been gearing up for shorter outings. He is way off schedule and off his normal training.
by Andy Braves Fan on Aug 5, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
That is also true. I can accept that. I hate it for KK, I really do, but I think they are going to call up Minor and further crush his already waning confidence.
by CharlotteChop on Aug 5, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
By this logic...
Well as a starting pitcher that has been pitching for a good portion of his life, throwing 5 innings (roughly 90 pitches) should not be a big deal AT ALL if he is keeping himself in proper shape while out of action
Then starters should be throwing 5 innings ot the gate in spring training, instead of the normal course of action where they build up stamina from 2 to 3 to 5+ innings over a month.
wrong- not my argument at all. If he is throwing 40-50 pitches two or three times a week on the side he should be able to throw 80-90 in a SPOT start. If he’s keeping himself in shape he should be ready. Guys come to spring training having not thrown a ball in months. Give me a break -terrible analogy.
by CharlotteChop on Aug 5, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
That is not true re spring training...
pitchers arrive and start throwing in early February. Games don’t start until March. And throwing 40-50 on the side is a far cry effort wise from 80-90 in an actual game.
Early Feb vs March is about the same time period as KK removed from the rotation, actually less. My comment was in regards to the Nov-Jan timeframe. And if my 40/50 side if too little, then he should be throwing more. Or he should be throwing simulated sessions in the pen every 4 or 5 days and doing his in between work. Like I said-whatever he needs to do to be able to pitch as the emergency starter.
Maybe I am just giving him to much credit as to his capability, which is why we’re all spun up in here anyway.
by CharlotteChop on Aug 5, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
But if he's throwing that much on the side, what would that do...
to him as a reliever option? Bobby and the FO might not have wanted him doing that so he wouldn’t wear himself out and be unable to pitch if needed in a real game. There are just too many question marks around the whole thing to know what’s what without being directly involved in the details.
He's not doing this, though
Relief pitchers don’t just work out and throw 50 full effort pitches on any given day. That risks rendering them completely useless for that night, and you can never know in advance whether you might need them.
Those are both good arguments- I guess while in the bullpen he has to think and prepare as a reliever. I overestimated that notion. As I said above, I hate it for KK, he’s a good guy. But I have a feeling they are going to call up Minor and further crush his confidence.
by CharlotteChop on Aug 5, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
My thinking is Minor...
Here’s why…no one knows him in the MLB…as in has a book on him. Hitters haven’t seen him and his stuff can be electric. I think he should come up and get 4-5 starts under his belt. Maybe he could go 3-1 and help keep us in 1st place. If he is worthy of staying, then he could help in the pen down the stretch or playoffs if needed. If he struggles, it was worth a couple starts.
If it works, then an arm of the future has earned his stripes in a pennant race. Not a bad risk to take if you ask me.
He’s only going to go 3-1 if the offense gives him the lead for the innings that he is in there and the BP doesn’t blow it.
People, please stop using W-Ls as a way to measure a pitcher.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 5, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
All I am saying is...
Maybe he could be more successful than what we already have since no one has seen him. Maybe he has a sub-3.00 ERA and keeps us in ball games? Maybe he is 0-4 and pitches 6-7 innings and saves the pen?
MLB hitters don’t have a book on him, and it takes MLB scouts a month to catch up to a guy, 3 months to know him well. So, maybe he would do better than KK?
I love the no book argument -always seems to favor pitchers.
by CharlotteChop on Aug 5, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Minor has been a pretty popular fellow, even in non-Braves circles. I am fairly confident that other scouts have seen him and have information on him.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 5, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Of course they do, but the group of scouts who are a week or 2 ahead of the Braves and are scouting their future schedule are not the ones delving thru the MILB and scouting guys for trades. Those are area guys and cross checkers who are no longer needed on the amateur circuit and are being assigned a special job. So if the guys ahead haven’t seen him, they aren’t going to have the details needed. And 1 start isn’t enough to pick up tendencies…3-4 is enough.
Scouting departments know who the other teams’ best MILB players and prospects are, but that doesn’t mean they know how to beat them. It just means they know their skills and abilities.
And maybe he gets smacked around...
the chances he pitches very poorly is just as strong as him coming in and starting off dominant.
chances are KK gets smacked arond...
the chances he pitches very poorly is just as strong as him coming in and being dominant.
Sorry, but It bugs me when people use that argument.
Headlining the Campaign for the return of Ryan Langerhans! MVP 2011!
by RichmondBraves on Aug 5, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
What argument, that it's unrealistic to expect Minor to arrive and dominate right now?
because it is. Not saying he wouldn’t, but it certainly shouldn’t be expected.
If being in 1st place in August and having Jason Heyward on the team, and having 5 All-stars, and having one of our All-stars get the game winning hit hasn’t excited them already, I seriously doubt Mike Minor will.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 5, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I am sick of everytime something comes up in this country that someone uses the race card! KK sucks! That is a fact. I wonder why no one cried race when they just let Chris Resop go? I can tell you why. He was white.
by SBURROUGHS on Aug 5, 2010 10:32 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
woooooooow…..
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 5, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
that was exactly my reaction. Stupid on so many levels. Don’t even know where to start.
by Andy Braves Fan on Aug 5, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Even if the race thing were true, it is a stupid argument for this reason:
A white man (Wren) is the one who decided to put Chris on waivers…how can a white be racist against another white?
Clayton Bigsby, anyone?
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 5, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t even realize race entered into this argument. Who played the race card?
by Andy Braves Fan on Aug 5, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
mvhsbball hates asians.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 5, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
And Eskimos
Don't kiss an ass if it's in the process of shitting on you.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
So.....
League average sucks?
Heyward is pretty good
I think this is the perfect occasion for this:
by Andy Braves Fan on Aug 5, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pic Fail
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 5, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Or because he was never successful at the major league level
Compare KK to Resop in major league stats, and it’s pretty obvious which one is the better player.
Yes & Done
Don't kiss an ass if it's in the process of shitting on you.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
O'Troll RULEZ!!
Don't kiss an ass if it's in the process of shitting on you.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
Reply fail.
:)
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 5, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ve always wondered about this photo – was the guy posing in a face-palm fashion or was he trying to smile for a yearbook photo?
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 5, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Haha, I don’t know. I just like this particular facepalm. I use it often.
by Andy Braves Fan on Aug 5, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
One person's opinion...
Why not give Minor a shot.Think Hellickson.We have not had a lefty in the rotation since Spahn (jk).If he pitches well,say a quality start,then give him one more if Medlen is DL’d. If not maybe you give KK the next one. In any case, that is all you give Minor until Sep call up. I am unsure of Minor’s righty/lefty splits. If he is particularily effective against left-handed hitters, well 6 of our last 12 games are against the Phils,and a lefty starter might be a nice thing to have as a weapon then. This is in no way a knock on KK,who presents an option in any case.However, we learn something by taking a look at Minor….
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