Hey Friend, Why You Crying?
by Scott Coleman on Aug 2, 2010 8:01 AM EDT
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PrintIn case you had forgotten:
Do you see that team in 1st place? Hey! I think that's the Braves! You wouldn't know it judging by some of the things said on the threads this past week though. You'd swear this team is in last place or something. Just stop it. You look silly, to be perfectly honest.
Let's de-bunk a few of these TC misconceptions, shall we?
- The Braves offense sucks -- Wrong. We're 5th in the league in scoring, and we still haven't seen what a lineup with Prado, Ankiel and Gonzalez can do. I'm really looking forward to not having Melky in the lineup everyday. He's not an everyday player, and he now joins the best bench in baseball. The Braves might not have the most powerful lineup, or the fastest, but they're very solid.
- Frank Wren is a bad GM -- If you think this is the case, raise your right hand, flex, and quickly move it inwards towards you face until contact is made. Repeat. Repeat. And repeat again. It's not his fault Liberty Media has dropped the Braves' team salary by nearly $19M since he took over in 2007.
- Frank Wren didn't help the Braves at the deadline -- First off all, shouldn't we see how Ankiel and Farnsworth perform before making these judgements? It seems pointless to judge a trade before we see the outcome of the move. Second of all, it's not like Frank Wren and the Front Office were in an easy situation. The Braves, like most clubs, are struggling financially. Everyone should know this. They don't have the money to pay $10MM to a few guys over the next two months like the Yankees do. Ankiel and Farnsworth bring even more depth and stability to our club, and they barely cost us anything. We can always get another Gregor Blanco (his name is Matt Young, and he should be called up any day now.), Jesse Chavez was pretty awful, and we're already set with young relievers. I guess I don't really see how you couldn't like the move. We kept all of our stud prospects and improved our club at the same time. That's all a fan can ask for.
- The Braves are a horrible road team -- Not really. Sure, they're a not so great 25-32 away from the Ted, but did you know this is good for the 5th best road record in the NL? When you're the best team in the league at home (by a pretty decent margin too), this is more than an acceptable number.
- The bullpen is over-used -- Again, wrong. They've thrown the 5th fewest innings of any 'pen in the league, and they just added Kyle Farnsworth to be their 4th or 5th guy who can pitch dominantly in the latter innings. Oh, and Craig Kimbrel, Eric O'Flaherty, Stephen Marek and others are waiting in the wings to come up to Atlanta.
- Terry Pendelton should be fired -- Look, TP isn't the best hitting coach in the league, but he's doing a fine job this year. He never had a ton to work with in the first place, yet the Braves are still an above-average club offensively.
- The Braves didn't make a move to counter the Phillies acquiring Roy Oswalt - This might be true, but since his return from the disabled list, this is Jair Jurrjens' stat line: 3-1, 6.2IP*, 4.33ERA, 12BB/32K. *Per start. That's pretty darn good. Roy Oswalt might be the bigger name, but I don't think there's any doubt that JJ can match Oswalt's production. I know we didn't technically "acqure" Jair at the deadline, but after missing more than two months of the season, it basically has the same effect on the Braves. So why is everyone worried about the Phillies acquiring a veteran pitcher past his prime?
- The Braves aren't playing well -- Want to hear something cool? Even with the series split against Milwaukee, and the series losses against the Marlins, Nats and Reds, the Braves still have the best record in the National League since May 10th. You know your team is pretty special when you can go 5-8 since the All-Star Break and still have the best overall record since mid-May.
So there's that for you. This post obviously isn't for everyone. There are many of you who already know what I've posted and don't certainly need reminding. But for those of you who are continually complaining and bashing the Braves, I hope you've read this. You're obviously entitled to your opinion. If you think the Braves are trash, well, I guess that's up to you.
The TC staff loves when you read and contribute to the blog. We really do. But it's getting frustrating to see comment after comment about how many things are wrong with the Braves. The fact is that there really isn't anything wrong. Are we having a bad week? Yeah. But so are most of the other teams in the league. We weren't going to win or tie every series for the rest of the year. It's a long season. And the Braves will be back.
Thank you for reading, and go Braves.
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Well said!
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, when the Phils come to Turner Field the last week of the season, they’ll be playing the Braves bench because Atlanta will already be resting up for the playoffs and te Phills will be making tee time reservations… Also, Frank Wren is doing an excellent job.
HansonManCrush
by HansonManCrush on Aug 2, 2010 8:17 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
My mistake...
I changed it down to $19M. I just read Cott’s wrong is all.
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/atlanta-braves_15.html
when is Frank Wren going to wake his Ass up and see the Braves needs a Batter? This game Against Washington is Showing the team is not hitting. Get some help are philadelphia is going bnack to First? If you can’t see this maybe john scherhous should replace your stupid ass.
by jayball on Jul 27, 2010 5:41 PM MST
by Scott Coleman on Aug 2, 2010 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions
That is why I vote a 10 evry week
I get the feeling if we swept the World Series, some of these folks would find something to complain about. Sure, we’ve hit a rough patch, but by building a 6 game lead, you can afford one. While we made no blockbuster deals at the deadline, we didn’t really need one. So the trades we made were not only for this year, but we did not give up the farm and our future. That is smart GM’ing (is that a word?)
BUT WE KEEP TRADING WITH LOSING TEAMS
The bullpen is over-used — Again, wrong.
You’re kinda right. Not all the bullpen is overused. Johnny Venters is, however. No debating that.
"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson
No kidding.
I love Venters, and he does fantastic work. But we need to see a little less of him so his arm doesn’t fall off before September. Hopefully Farny’s arrival will make that happen.
by J-Freak on Aug 2, 2010 8:44 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
HUH?
We do keep trading with losing teams, because the winning teams aren’t going to give us anything worth having. Most losing teams have a few top notch players. Lance Berkman and Roy Oswalt were on a losing team. Cliff Lee was on a losing team. It’s the teams that are out of contention that will trade the big names.
sarcasm sir.
Its from the Ankiel/Farnsworth trade thread.
"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson
I partially agree
Yes, many Braves fans have experienced panic attacks.
Frank Wren has had his hands tied to a great extent due to budget constraints.
Bobby Cox and Braves management have done an excellent job in making chicken salad from chicken s*it for a long time, but …..
If there ever was a time to throw caution to the wind and go for it, this was the year.
There will be a major overhaul of the team next year, so forget about contending for a couple of years after this year.
Rick Ankiel is NOT going to make a magical transformation from a retread to a big contributor. At best he is a below average fill-in.
Farnsworth’s possible contribution is not even worth mentioning.
They should/could have traded a couple of our top prospects (notably Teheran) for a big-time bat, but didn’t.
I’ve been a Braves fan for almost 40 years, and I’ll always be; but I’ll bitch when I feel it’s justified.
If you can’t honestly see the benefit of replacing Melky with Ankiel, it’s hard to take the rest of your complaints seriously. Ankiel may not be a superstar, but he’s certainly better than a below-average retread. His power makes him a worthwhile pickup, since that’s what we’ve been sorely lacking. We weren’t going to get that from Melky, that’s for damn sure. Wren’s made it pretty clear that he had a lot of talks and this was the deal that was able to fall into place by the deadline. I’d bet you dollars to pesos he shot for a high calibre player but couldn’t find a dance partner. In case you didn’t notice it was a rather depressed market this year all around, it’s not like Wren watched all the other contenders snap up superstars while he was left alone in the corner to dumpster dive.
And I really, REALLY don’t get where this idea is coming from that we can’t compete next year. We’ve got over $20M coming off the books from Chipper, Glausosaur, and Wags alone. Most of the team stays intact- someone like Venters or Kimbrel can step in at closer, and Freeman replacing Troy is pretty much a done deal, so that leaves a lot of money to go after Beltre for third or Werth for center to bolster the lineup. With only a year left on his deal, if McLouth’s recent success in AAA holds up, we may find a taker this winter and offload him as well. KK only has a year left, increasing the likelihood he can be dealt, which frees up around 5M more even if we have to eat a portion to unload him. There will be a few different pieces, sure, but saying we’ll be unable to compete for a couple of years is naive at best, and fucking stupid at worst.
by J-Freak on Aug 2, 2010 8:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Agreed. Earlier, it looked like Freeman might not be rerady for 2011, but he as been much improved lately. If Chipper does retire, that, along with Wags, that does free up a lot of money.
I like Melky, but do think he is a better bench player than every day starter. Ankiel, when healthy, does produce. Adding Farnsworth to the pen gives us another reliable and veteran RH arm in the pen for th stretch. He has pithced 42 innings this year, so he is pretty fresh also.
Oh, really?
If you can’t honestly see the benefit of replacing Melky with Ankiel, it’s hard to take the rest of your complaints seriously. Ankiel may not be a superstar, but he’s certainly better than a below-average retread.
Melky Cabrera:
2010: .262 .324 .360 .683
(Keep in mind this is brought WAY down by a horrible April, since 20 May, he has this line: .300 .348 .433 .782 )
Career: .268 .330 .381 .711
Rick Ankiel:
2010: .253 .314 .453 .767
Career: 251 .311 .452 .763
His power both this year and for his career are not that much greater than Melky’s. Also, Melky has a better OBP and a better average, and IIRC, better defense in all spots of the OF.
So, please explain to me why Ankiel is a much better option, so much better that only idiots would not be able to see it, when in fact, Melky is having a fan-damn-tastic run right now, and has kept this offense floating in the wake of the Heyward/Diaz injuries and the McLouth meltdown.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
While the guy didn't make this point...
we still have Melky, so it’s not Ankiel or Melky. It’s Ankiel or Blanco, and that is obviously more in favor of the new guy.
And then we have his duplicate in McLouth now able to spend say a month or so in AAA refinding his swing before coming back in September (barring injury).
Agreed, I was just responding to his “only retards think Ankiel is not an upgrade over Melky” rhetoric.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, I’M the one throwing rhetoric around? Melky has been replacement level, not “the reason we’re still in first.” He has not had a hot streak, has only scored 33 times in 101 games, and is OPSing .683. Blanco/Young could have given us that over that stretch. That’s about as bad as Ankiel was in his WORST season. In less than a third of the ABs as Melky this year, he’s scored almost half as many runs, hit more homers, and is OPSing 80 points higher. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: Ankiel is certainly no star. But he does bring some pop that we didn’t have before, and had 0 chance of getting out of Melky down the stretch. That power is what Wren said he was looking for, and he got it. So yes, he’s an upgrade, and any talk of Melky being the difference in us leading the division or not is a joke. Melky’s OPS is 45 points under the league average. Ankiel’s is 39 points over it. Melky has no appreciable skill, like speed or power, that make up for his lack of well-roundedness. Ankiel does: he has power we didn’t have before.
Ankiel > Melky for the stretch run.
False. Look at what Melky has done since May 20 – while Diaz and Heyward were out – and tell me that is “replacement” level.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 3, 2010 3:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Hmm. 16 runs, 16 RBI over two months. Two homers. 12 doubles. I guess I stand corrected.
Oh wait, I forgot- that’s pretty much replacement level. Are you honestly telling me Blanco or Young couldn’t have scored twice a week over two months? At worst we would’ve have got 1-3 fewer doubles. But would have saved a few mil in doing so. Yeah, I’m not seeing it. The only argument that can possibly be made is that he was better than Nate- which is kind of like saying cabbage soup makes for a better dinner than cow dung. Sure, it’s better by comparison, but it still doesn’t beat out any other choices.
Melky has been a replacement level player this year. That’s what the numbers show. That’s what his performances show. That isn’t, sadly, what his salary shows. In a Melky-less world, we’d still be in the same position we are now, probably with Young on the bench instead (assuming the Blanco-Ankiel swap takes place regardless). He has not been the difference that got us here. That distinction belongs to guys like Prado, Infante, even Brooksy a little bit. There’s also Diaz, who picked up the slack when Heyward got hurt and has hit like gangbusters since his return. Melky is an outsider looking in, and to say he’s saved the team is a grave insult to all the other guys on the team that have actually done so.
Runs and RBI FTW!
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 3, 2010 6:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, Diaz was hurt when Heyward was hurt…and Melky stepped up his game.
Here is what Melky has done compared to the other guys that you mentioned:
Over the past month:
Melky – .297 .370 .500 .870 (73 PAs)
Prado – .250 .305 .523 .828 (95 PAs)
Infante – .464 .500 .536 1.036 (60 PAs)
Brooksy – .105 .261 .263 .524 (23 PAs)
Diaz – .354 .380 .771 1.151 (50 PAs)
Infante and Diaz’ contributions cannot be ignored here. Then again, neither can Melky’s…
Over the past 2 months:
Melky – .286 .341 .417 .757 (186 PAs)
Prado – .308 .347 .520 .868 (240 PAs)
Infante – .372 .406 .419 .824 (139 PAs)
Brooksy – .214 .290 .393 .683 (65 PAs)
Diaz – 327 .351 .709 1.060 (57 PAs)
Melky has not been replacement level at all, and has been above average at a time when we have been getting poor production from our OF. When Diaz, Heyward and McLouth were all injured, Melky has helped stablize our OF.
I am not claiming that he is our MVP by any stretch of the imagination, so don’t pretend that I am. I am simply stating that Melky has been one of the reasons that this team was able to survive injuries to our 3 starting OFers at the same time, and why this team went on the ridiculous winning tear that it did, and why this team is in first place.
Looking at retarded stats like runs scored and RBI tells you nothing about how Melky has done at the plate. Just look at Chipper’s RBI total, and then remember that he is hitting something like .315 with RISP. Those stats depend on the others around you.
Since 20 May (my arbitrary date when Melky turned it on)
Melky –
Prado -
Infante –
Brooksy –
Diaz -
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 3, 2010 6:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I forgot about the 3rd part of my post, but it only adds about a week and a half to the “past 2 months” numbers.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 3, 2010 6:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Wasn’t Ankiel also injured for a while?
I’m all in favor of a Melky/Ankiel platoon. The numbers appear to match up for that.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
He went on the DL for May and June – which is more cause for concern and not rejoicing.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not rejoicing, nor was I trying to contradict your post. It was simply a question since I am lazy and can’t look things up for myself.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
lol. 20 seconds
:)
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
because i don’t like milky… don’t like taking the Yankees garbage off their hands for them either.
"If I had known I was going to live this long I'd have taken better care of myself" ~ Mickey Mantle
So your post is based on personal feeling and not statistical data.
That Yankee “garbage” has kept this team in 1st place.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
He has done well
but I still don’t think he belongs as a regular starter on a playoff team (unless it is the Yankees and he is hitting 8th/9th behind a complete all-star team).
by Andy Braves Fan on Aug 3, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ve been a Braves fan for almost 40 years, and I’ll always be; but I’ll bitch when I feel it’s justified.
AMEN.
"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"
by bwellnjonesco on Aug 2, 2010 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions
So what “big bat” was out there that you wanted to get?? And don’t say a Braun or McCutchen…because they weren’t available…
by dunnytwogloves on Aug 2, 2010 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I do think Wren is doing a good job. I was kind of perplex that we couldn’t get in on the Ludwick trade. The Cards were obviously looking for a starting pitcher. We’ve got one that we are not using. I Ludwick for KK and a mid level prospect would have done both teams well. And I’m not even saying that Wren did approach and got turned down.
The point is that no one really knows what Frank Wren asked for. He might have tried to get Willingham from the Nats, Byrd from the Cubs. We heard rumors about Chone Figgins. Maybe Kearns with Cleveland.
He didn’t want to give up the farm. We are going to have yet another big influx of cheap but very talented players coming up the next couple of years. We don’t want to trade that way right now.
I think the team is fine…but I think there are still some moves that are going to have to be made. First, if Glaus continues to struggle and Freeman continues to tear up AAA then I think it might be time for a changing of the guard this season and not next season. If anything we might need Freeman to be here by the end of August so he’s available for the playoffs.
We really do need McLouth to find himself in AAA. I want to see him put up a line of .350/.400/.500 at AAA with some dingers and some SB’s. He needs to get his confidence back and also re-learn the strike zone and take a few walks occasionally. If he could end up with more BB’s than K’s at AAA I would be happy.
Matt Young needs to be on the team and be the leadoff hitter. If anything they can platoon him with Diaz in LF and put Hinske back on the bench of at 1B. We are missing that spark plug at the top of the order. Prado has been great in the leadoff spot, but he doesn’t really strike fear into the pitchers when he gets on base as they know he’s going to be cemented to the bag until someone hits the ball.
I think the team is fine and we are still in first place, but I don’t think the front office is done tinkering with the roster.
My beef is with Alex Gonzalez
I said when we got him he wouldn’t hit more than 6 HR the rest of the year. Well congrats buddy, you finally got 1 as a Brave….and then you committed the error that lost us the game. 0-1 in games in which Gonzo his a HR. Way to go buddy!
So take him out of the game
And he doesn’t make the error. And he doesn’t hit the home run. And we lose 1-0.
Way to go buddy!
Official MCM Hater!
"If anyone asks you, you fixed my television. Now go!"
really...
yunel wouldnt had hit the bomb, and IF he did he woulda figured out how to make a baserunning error rounding the bases.
See how easy it is to make a statement you feel very comfortable with in your own right all held together by the coulda/woulda tag line. You can make it come out exactly how you want it.
your comments about alex and his error have absolutely no ground to stand on.
What are you talking about?
I have plenty of “ground to stand on.” He scored our only run on his homerun.
Official MCM Hater!
"If anyone asks you, you fixed my television. Now go!"
Let me rephrase
I was merely pointing out the fact that he finally hit a HR, and to anyone who was saying what a great addition he was when they posted his line a week ago, here is the updated line. .259/.333/.426/.759 which is actually an improvement over his very long career line of .248/.295/.403/.697, which means that horrible line he is posting right now is actually an aberration and is due for some negative regression. Way to go buddy! The rare error doesnt change the fact that his range is a lot worse than escobars and his offense is atrocious. Talk about team chemistry??? Winning record by a large margin with Escobar, losing record with Gonzo. Lets see how this plays out.
yup
his error definately caused the team to hit 1-11 with runners in scoring position. that error lost us the game. also, trading for him has caused glaus to go into a slump and prado to hurt his wrist. we never should have traded yunel because then wed have a healthy prado, a strokin glaus, and yunels great defense and sub .700 OPS. wed never have a bad week EVERRRRRR!!!!
It's like Hank, the rightfielder, is passing the ball on to the next rightfielder, and saying, 'Here it is, kid. Catch it.'"
You’re still a moron. Check his numbers this year compared to Yunel’s in 75 games. The difference is night and day, other than OBP, which is a differential of a whopping .001.
You can not like the trade all day long, but his statistics since coming here have been better than expected, and certainly better than Yunel’s earlier in the season.
I love revisionist history that completely wipes out Yunel’s horrible play in the first half. I wonder if these are the same people that continually complained about Yunel throughout the first half of the season…
-C
What’s worse, revisionist history that wants to forget about 3 months of bad hitting or revisionist history that forgets about 12 years of bad hitting?
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't care how poorly he hit in the past...
just how he does here. And here, he’s done well. Maybe he won’t keep it up, and you’ve got plenty of evidence to support that he won’t, but as it is, so long as he does well here, I don’t care about how low his obp was prior.
But he isn’t exactly tearing up the pitching here either. In fact, he is making more outs than Yunel did. Sure, he has gotten more XBH than Yunel did for us, but he is also making more outs.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
A lower OBP (Granted, it is .001) indicates that he reaches base safely less often – which means he makes more outs.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s one out over the next, oh, 1 1/2 seasons.
I’d much rather have the 60 more XBH Gonzalez would provide during that span than the one out, projecting off that same set of data that you’re gloating of a one-out differential.
-C
No, it’s .001 for the past 4 months.
Over the next 1.5 seasons, based on their career averages, it is about .50 – which is significant.
Also, Yunel gets as many XBHs as any SS in the league. He was in a 3 month slump. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to comprehend that.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I love how the argument is basing everything on stats when that didn’t play the biggest role in the trade. I think we should all agree that by the statistics and upside Escobar is better than Gonzalez. Escobar has been in a slump for a while now. Gonzalez is older but is/was performing better. Defensively, i would rate them about the same. Obviously, we made this trade to rid ourselves of Escobar’s attitude. Apparently, it got bad enough that Bobby and Wren decided to was best for the team, with everything was considered to trade Escobar away.
Once again, you’re relying on career averages that don’t tell the whole story.
Tell you what. Let’s find their respective statistics over the length of Yunel’s professional career and compare those. I’ll be fine with that comparison, tbh, tho we both know it will clearly benefit Yunel to use this range of data. We can then compare pre and post-trade data in a more fair, rational manner.
As I’ve said umpteen times, what a hitter did 12 years ago has no bearing on how he’ll do today. If that were the case, Andruw Jones, Ken Griffey Jr., et al. would still be considered great today because their career numbers are considerably better than their statistics over the past 4-5 years.
ALL I’ve said about Gonzalez are two things, since the beginning of this debate: Gonzalez has been better for the Braves than Escobar this season, and that Gonzalez’s career numbers are not as accurate gauge as using his numbers over the past six seasons, including this year.
-C
Andruw, Griffey, et al are not what they were 12 years ago, because they have gotten older and passed their primes – just like Gonzalez.
Meanwhile, Yunel is still young and has yet to reach his prime.
His last 6 years are not that much better than his first years. They both suck, either way you look at it. He is just not a good hitter, and we bought high on a guy having a career year in the power department.
First years: ..244 .291 .389 .680
Last 6: 252 .297 .415 .712
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Is a 15 minute 1/2 mile better than a 17 minute 1/2 mile? yes, but both suck.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Andruw, Griffey, et al are not what they were 12 years ago, because they have gotten older and passed their primes – just like Gonzalez.
First years: ..244 .291 .389 .680
Last 6: 252 .297 .415 .712
How do you spell contradiction??
-C
Dammit, his .006 increase in BA, .006 increase in OBP, .026 increas in SLG and .032 increas in OPS is the stuff of legend.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
but i think thats what wren was going for
whether it proves to be smart or not, he provides more power while not getting on base as much, therefore creating more outs. we have (had) a ton of guys getting on base and not much pop. so wren took a chance on a guy who (theoretically) will hit more XBH
It's like Hank, the rightfielder, is passing the ball on to the next rightfielder, and saying, 'Here it is, kid. Catch it.'"
And I disagree with that strategy. SS is not where you look to upgrade power – especially when you have well-below average power production 2 of 3 OF spots and at 3B.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
i would have rather had an OF bat over alex and ankiel but for reasons discussed wren/bobby and whoever else gave up on yunel. so well root for gonzo to keep up his hitting, that melky plays solid, and ankiel can find some of his 08 magic
It's like Hank, the rightfielder, is passing the ball on to the next rightfielder, and saying, 'Here it is, kid. Catch it.'"
Of course I’ll root for that to happen, but that doesn’t make the moves any better, nor does it make this team any better.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
id rather have 200 or so ankiel at bats than 200 or so blanco at bats. nothing against gregor but hes not an everyday OF
It's like Hank, the rightfielder, is passing the ball on to the next rightfielder, and saying, 'Here it is, kid. Catch it.'"
Blanco plays for Gwinnette
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
actually he plays for KC now
point being, id rather have an outfield of heyward, melky, ankiel, diaz than heyward, melky, blanco, diaz..even if blanco was only playing because of injury and nates suckitude
It's like Hank, the rightfielder, is passing the ball on to the next rightfielder, and saying, 'Here it is, kid. Catch it.'"
But why would you even include Blanco in that group? He wasn’t on the team at the time of the trade. The OF was Melky, Diaz, Hinske, Heyward. Now, it is Melky, Hinske, Heyward, Diaz and Ankiel.
Adding at 5th OF doesn’t make us any better.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, he’s done fairly well over the past six or so years, other than one stretch when he was coming back from an injury that cost him a full season.
If you want to believe that what he did in 2008 with the Marlins is relevant, continue to do so.
And, again, to reiterate: I don’t think he’s the second coming of Christ. But he’s gotten a bad rap here already while producing better than average numbers during his short time here.
So many people have written him off as a bad move despite the fact that he’s clearly, undeniably, upgraded our team at the position this season. Give him a shot.
-C
He has produced better than HIS average numbers – while barely making it to the league average plateau.
He has not clearly upgraded our team at the SS position. In fact, the argument can be made that it is a clear downgrade, looking at the big picture and not just at 3 months of data.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Except that he hasn’t. We ditched a more talented player having a down year to this point for a lousy hitter having a career year to this point.
Also, the fact that Yunel is a player who should be coming into his prime and Gonzalez is a 33 year old on his way out the door makes this trade suck even more.
Heck, the more I talk about it and think about it, the more I hate it. Seriously, was his attitude THAT bad???
I would have loved to see Yunel under Freddi for a season before we totally gave up on him.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
"was his attitude THAT bad?"
Yes.
Official MCM Hater!
"If anyone asks you, you fixed my television. Now go!"
and you know this how?
And what effect did this have on the team? After all, when he left the team was in first place despite his apparent attitude. I have never been a big believer in attitude problems being a big factor.
by Andy Braves Fan on Aug 2, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
They traded him over it, right?
Or did they just trade him over a snap decision about his lack of production in the first half of this season?
Official MCM Hater!
"If anyone asks you, you fixed my television. Now go!"
Probably a little of both. After all, someone reportedly said that it is easier to live with a bad attitude as long as they are hitting .300 or better, and as soon as Yunel’s average went down, out the door he went.
So yes, I would say it was partially due to a snap decision based on poor production over the 1st half of the season.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
His attitude was so bad that the team had the best record in baseball since last July.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Despite his bad attitude
and bad hitting.
Headlining the Campaign for the return of Ryan Langerhans! MVP 2011!
by RichmondBraves on Aug 2, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
good post gramsey
i was speaking to the fan above you
Sorry bout that. I was wondering......
Official MCM Hater!
"If anyone asks you, you fixed my television. Now go!"
I don't know Alex and I don't want to have his babies...
…but it’s bothered me that I keep reading that people are saying his (rare) error caused us to lose that game yesterday. Sure, the guy has only hit 1 home run (our only score yesterday) but his defense has been great since becoming a Brave. And let’s not forget he had been in the hospital this week and was not likely 100%.
If Jason had kept the ball in front of him, or at least stayed on his feet, that triple would have just been a double and the guy on 1st may not have scored. Then, Alex’s error (if he still made it) would have simply tied the game.
Our loss came because we didn’t take advantage of a pitcher on the other team who hit a batsman and walked 7.
To some, Alex is not an improvement and will not produce offensively as much as they want, but yesterday he did and doesn’t deserve the hanging of the loss around his neck.
"Curve: The loveliest distance between two points." ~ Mae West
by NCChopper on Aug 2, 2010 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have to disagree with the announcers and you on that NCChopper.
Yes, Heyward might have been able to keep the ball in front of him or get to it quicker if he doesn’t dive. Yes, that would probably have kept the batter from reaching third. However, there were two outs and the guy on first was running on contact, the only way he wasn’t going to score is if Heyward catches the ball, which is what Heyward put full effort into trying to do.
I think I speak for Alex when I say..
…he’s not your buddy.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUfts9dfZ9I
The base paths belonged to me, the runner. The rules gave me the right. I always went into a bag full speed, feet first. I had sharp spikes on my shoes. If the baseman stood where he had no business to be and got hurt, that was his fault. -Ty Cobb
Also...
any win or loss comes as a result of each and every play made, or not made, during a game, so it is impossible to place blame on any one person. You can’t say we lost just because of that error, or just because JHey didn’t make that catch or just because we stranded so many runners. We lost because of the particular combination of all of those.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
You’re a moron. He’s already had half the XBHs Yunel had, in one fifth of the games (6 XBH in 15 games vs. Yunel’s 12 in 75 games, all doubles).
-C
Why would you compare Yunel’s pre-trade stats to Gonzo’s post trade stats? You should compare both of their post-trade stats.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Faulty assumption that they would not. In fact, basing this off the only thing we can (past performance) one can make the assumption that Yunel was due for a monster 2nd half – and so far, he has gotten off to a good start.
It isn’t unreasonable to assume that he would do that here for the simple fact that he has done it here before. I doubt his teamates stopped liking him this season, so that shouldn’t really be a factor either.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
You have to compare apples to apples, and oranges with oranges. The only way to accomplish that is by comparing Escobar pre-trade to Gonzalez post-trade (and, conversely, Gonzalez pre-trade to Escobar post-trade).
Comparing Gonzalez post to Yunel post is not apples to apples: Here’s what’s changed in those scenarios: The pitchers they’re facing, the ballparks they’re playing in, their spot in the order, the hitters before and after them, and the list goes on.
Meanwhile, the starting SS for the braves, pre or post-trade, have faced the same pitchers, in the same parks, in generally the same spot in the lineup, with the majority of the same people hitting around them. This provides a much more controlled environment without all the excess variables that can greatly change the outcomes of respective situations. In short, this is the most logical and statistically accurate way to compare the data.
-C
I disagree with that logic. You don’t make an opinion based on 3 months of a great player slumping and 3 months of a terrible hitter being hot.
You bring up the “revisionist history” thing and talk about people ignoring how bad Esco was for 3 freaking months, yet you are the ones who ignore how damned good he was for 4 years and how bad Gonzalez has been for his entire career.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
You can disagree with the logic all day long, that doesn’t change the fact that it’s still the most statistically accurate way to interpret the data.
-C
But it isn’t…
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m pretty sure I’ll take my mathematical credentials over yours in this debate any day of the week.
If you knew any great amount about statistical and scientific method, you’d quickly and quietly concede this point without argument.
Since you haven’t, it’s pretty easy to conclude you’re in over your head on this point of contention and are just talking out of your ass.
-C
You: Yunel had a bad 3 months and Gonzo had a good 3 months. Gonzo is better!
Me: Gonzo has had a bad 12 years, and Yunel has been good every year of his young career so far.
You: My math is better than yours. I win.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Please show me. I haven’t changed a thing.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
See below...
the argument is for play as the Braves SS, not his career, what he did in Toronto, any of that. His career .295 is irrelevant to the discussion of how he’s done AS A BRAVE. Maybe if the argument is good trade or bad trade, or should Wren have done the trade. But that’s not the argument, it’s about exclusively play AS A BRAVE. Hence why Esco’s #s in Toronto are useless, same as Gonzo’s numbers there. That’s the argumet YOU want it to be, but not what the other side was discussing.
Ok, so as a Brave:
Gonzo: .259 .333 .426 .759
Yunel: .291 .368 .403 .771
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
“Gonzo had a good 3 months”
It’s been 3 monhs since he arrived, damn time flies. If not, then you are talking out of your rectum with that comment since most have said it’s Gonzo’s currently small sample size post trade numbers that should be used in evaluating how he’s done.
Ok, I stand corrected. The correct post should read:
Gonzo has had 4 good months and Yunel had 3 bad months before he had his good month.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
You take your math and Gonzo.
I’ll take my history and Yunel.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
To be clear, the only things I’ve stated are that Gonzalez is having a better year for the Braves than Yunel did and that Gonzalez’s career numbers are not a good measuring stick to use because a better metric, i.e. the past six years, provide better insight.
I’ve not determined whether this trade is a win or a loss for the Braves, because that can’t be concluded after 15 games. All I’ve said is that during those 15 games, Gonzalez has been better.
Everyone else has written this off as a bad trade, when all the data produced THUS FAR is contrary to that point.
-C
But that’s just it – Since the trade, Yunel has been better!
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
which is absolutely inconclusive ...
of whether or not he’d have done better AS A BRAVE. That will never be proven one way or another since it’ll never happen. You can claim his numbers in Toronto would be the same if we kept him, but that’s just your opinion and can never be proven correct or incorrect.
The best way to measure these things
is to take a 3 year sample. Escobar over the past 3 has been better than Gonzo for the past three. That’s the most commonly accepted “best method”. Your methodology is inaccurate here.
by Andy Braves Fan on Aug 2, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Finally, some common sense.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
If we were arguing who is the better player...
You’d be correct. However, that is not the argument.
The argument is who has done better, for the Braves, this season. That’s it.
I’m not arguing anything more than that single point. I think that’s what many are having a hard time understanding or accepting.
-C
But what kind of point is that
Having been better as a Brave this season is like saying Omar Infante was a better player than Jason Heyward in last night’s game. It says so little. I mean, I now understand the point you are trying to make, but it doesn’t really say much of anything in my opinion.
by Andy Braves Fan on Aug 2, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a small, but important one.
In the end, all I’m looking for is an admission that many are down on Gonzalez based upon their perception of the trade rather than for his performance in a Braves uniform.
Personally, I don’t think that’s fair.
He’s done just fine since he’s been here, albeit with a SSS.
Rather than whining about the trade, I think we’d be better served by rooting on the guy that’s playing for us, especially since he has been an improvement during his short time here.
Yunel’s not coming back. If you want to be pissed off about that, fine. But your anger should not be directed at Gonzalez, and he shouldn’t be getting run through the mud for for his performance thus far.
He’s been an improvement at the position so far this season. That’s undeniable, whether you’re mad about the trade or not.
So, FFS, give the guy a break.
-C
Fair
You are right. I do root for Gonzo, and do hope he succeeds, of course. However, I like others didn’t really like this trade. It doesn’t help that Yunel has performed quite well since going to Toronto.
by Andy Braves Fan on Aug 2, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
And on those points, we generally agree...
I think complacency played a big role in the trade, and also Yunel’s resurgence in Toronto.
In my opinion, he never acted as if he actually believed he’d be dealt. Then it happened, and he decided to start kicking it in the ass again instead of mailing it in as often as he was.
Maybe it was to prove the Braves wrong, maybe he realized that he’d grown complacent and has made an effort to really play his best game. I don’t get to watch Toronto, so I can’t tell by anything other than the highlights.
Look at the teams Toronto has played since the trade, and you see yet another factor that could play into the equation as to why he’s been hitting so much better. You can look at the pitchers those teams have, you can look at the people batting around him, the stadiums he’s been playing in, etc., and they all tend to favor his improvement.
I have no problem with people looking at the other side of the fence and wondering whether we got taken. Right now, if you look at the situation in that manner, it’s looking good for the Jays. But it still looks pretty good for us, too. They’ve both done well since the trade. Statistically, Yunel’s done better.
I’m glad for Yunel and hope he continues to play well. The same goes for Gonzalez, especially so because he’s on my favorite team.
When we are able to finally look back at this trade, I think a lot of us will be surprised that it turned out good for both teams (or maybe that’s my optimism).
It’s very possible that it’s a win for us and we still come out on the short end of the trade. If that’s how it turns out, I’m okay with that.
-C
That’s a fair point, but you can also make the point that Yunel has been (or would have been) an improvement over the 1st half of the season, based on his numbers in Toronto so far.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not as good of an argument, imo
But it could be made. As I stated earlier, there are a completely different set of circumstances, i.e. statistical variables, to work with.
That said, his increased production is undeniable.
It’s exceptionally hard to quantify these changes. But, even given all these variables (and there are many), you’d have a hard time convincing me that he’d not have improved from his earlier numbers if he were still wearing a Braves uniform.
The question then becomes how much, and you have to factor in all these different variables a second time. The answer becomes all that more convoluted and uncertain.
The thing that worries me most about all the what-ifs, honestly, are how well he would have done if we just kept him. Even more than Gonzalez deadpanning for the next year and a half…
I honestly believe that Yunel had not yet rock-bottomed, and it’s scary to think about how that would have affected the team down the stretch.
Keep in mind, as well, that I was still rooting him on and hoping for him to snap out of it while countless others were asking for DFA at Memorial Day and thereafter. I’ve always been a huge Yunel fan.
You see a guy in a lengthy slump. I see a guy who wasn’t going to have this improvement without first being shown the door. Neither of us can say which way it would have gone.
Regardless of all the what-ifs, I just want to see Gonzalez get a fair shake in Atlanta.
-C
You seriously think he'd do the same having his home part Toronto vs. Ted?
in a different lineup, with different mental factors involved? If so, then yes it is a very faulty assumption that his stats with the Blue jays would be the same as if the trade never happened. Not saying better or worse, but they very likely would not be the same.
But he has hit this well in Atlanta in the past, so it IS faulty to assume that he wouldn’t hit well here.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Past results are not indicative of future performance...
it’s just not. You can argue that it is, but you’d be wrong. Flip a coin 50 times, get tails all 50. Time #51 is still a 50/50 chance of heads or tails. Same as #52, #53, #35, and every other time you flip a coin.
So no, just because Yunel hit well in the past is completely irrelevant to how he was doing at the present or would do in the future.
More faulty logic. The chances of an individual coin flip will always be 50/50. The chances of getting heads 10 out of 10 times is not 50/50
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, changing the argument...
that was an example, not the point. The point was that past results are not indicative of future performance. Simply you can’t take Yunel’s past numbers and say this is what he would have done if he was still here. And that is not faulty logic.
But I can take his past numbers – given a substantial sample size – and make a logical conclusion of what the numbers SHOULD be in the future. Of course, nobody can predict the future, but we can make logical assumptions.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
But then those numbers SHOULD be there in the first half, and weren't...
I can look at Chipper’s past #s, and assume what SHOULD be, but that doesn’t make it so. You know the old syin about assumptions and assuming, but while that might be what the numbers SHOULD be, that is really pretty worthless.
Nate McLouth had a significant sample size that said what his numbers SHOULD be this year, but that didn’t make it so. It said what his numbers SHOULD be once he got back from the concussion, and that didn’t make it so. So again, you’ve changed the argument. I never said what his numbers SHOULD be, I said what they WOULD be, and there is a big difference in those two words. And what they WOULD be is something no one will ever know.
Using some of the logic from this discussion...
You should realize that Chipper was not going to hit for his career numbers because he is past his prime. Therefore a younger player should hit or surpass his career numbers.
That said, the fact that we have is Yunel was simply not producing anything for Atlanta this year (he could have soured on being here also, but we don’t know that).
Let’s compare another player who hypothetically should be having a good year and “explode” any minute now. Conveniently he is also a teammate of Yuney.
Aaron Hill 2B – Blue Jays:
*Hill’s stats come from the same ridiculous hitters park that Gonzo’s did (pre-trade) and Yuney’s does (post trade).
Currently: (377 plate appearances) .206 .282 .379 .661
70 hits, 15 hrs, .200 babip
ZIPs: (season) .223 .292 .394 .686 with 117 h, 22 hrs, .223 babip
Hill needs to bat a ridiculous .254 with a babip of .265 and accumulate 47 hits (more than 1/2 of what he currently has) to achieve this goal which is just silly. I say this because his babip this year has just been atrocious. Now it would be easy to assume he will hit like crazy for the last 2 months to achieve this goal but as the season progresses on, it is just as easy to assume that the hits will just not fall for him.
Is he better and have more potential than what his stats this year say? I think so. However, it’s just as easy to say forget it and sell him if they desired too. Obviously this isn’t as beautifully written as some of the posters on this site can do, and it’s not an exact comparison but it does show that there are other players out there that were/are having a season like Yuney’s.
You can take whatever you want from this, I just felt like it’d be an interesting comparison.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
HEAR, HEAR!!!!
Frustrating as it was to watch this last road trip, it’s a fantastic team that had a few bad games out of town. The bats will come back and the bonehead defense will work itself out.
Although 3-6 on the road is far from what is desired, it’s only 1 game down from an expected 4-5 (most teams are sub-.500 on the road), and a helluva lot better than the 0-9 stretch in April.
We get some home division games coming up; the Braves will be just fine and continue to win, even if they don’t “dominate”.
Fair enough, but I highly doubt Ankiel and Farnsworth were the acquisitions the Braves needed to win a championship. The fact is there were much better hitters there to be had if Frank Wren had shown a little creativity (trade Kawakami and/or Lowe to clear payroll by eating some of their salary) and been willing to part with one or more of the team’s pitching prospects. This was sort of the reverse Teixeira: the Braves held onto their prospects when they arguably should have traded some of them to make a serious run at a championship.
Negatory
I want to see a list of these much better hitters that were there to be had, cause I certainly didn’t see one marquee hitter, and Berkman isn’t anymore, that changed clubs while Wren stood pat.
by JFP on Aug 2, 2010 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Excuse me professional.
Just because you didn’t read a name on MLBTR doesn’t mean they weren’t available. And yes, I know there is a triple negative in the previous sentence, but you said “Negatory”, so we are even.
"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"
by bwellnjonesco on Aug 2, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
and how exactly do you know these guys were available? do you have “inside sources” or are you just hypothesizing like the rest of us?
It's like Hank, the rightfielder, is passing the ball on to the next rightfielder, and saying, 'Here it is, kid. Catch it.'"
how exactly do you know these guys weren’t available? do you have "inside sources" or are you just hypothesizing like the rest of us?
look we could do this all morning and for the rest of the week. i dont know who WAS or WASNT available and at what cost to the team. if you really want to get into a pissing contest over hypothetical trades wren could have pulled, then good for you. my point was that without actually seeing names on various websites we have no idea who was and wasnt out there..savvy?
It's like Hank, the rightfielder, is passing the ball on to the next rightfielder, and saying, 'Here it is, kid. Catch it.'"
Fair enough...
that was my point anyway. Neither of us know who was “available” and who wasn’t, other than the names that were dealt or obvious bad contracts publically wanting out.
glad we agree on the overall point
it just drives me crazy that people insist wren should have landed a “big bat” when nobody knows what all went down. would i have liked a potential 40 HR masher to come in, sure would, but without selling the farm and getting more money from Liberty, that wasnt going to happen.
It's like Hank, the rightfielder, is passing the ball on to the next rightfielder, and saying, 'Here it is, kid. Catch it.'"
I was among those clamoring for the big, adding a guy everyone thought unavailable type move...
and I think we have the excess in potential front line pitching to have mad that happen, but as you say, that’s speculation and Wren is much better suited to determine that than anyone else.
But we do know Ludwick was moved, and we certainly could have put together similar or better pitching prospects than the Padres included in that deal. I think he’s better than Ankiel, in spite of CF vs. corner OF, and would have been a great addition as a right handed slugger behind McCann, either in LF or RF with Heyward sliding to CF.
But we got what we got, barring any moves in August (which shouldn’t be unexpected imo), and I think it’s good enough to go with, provided they can get back to driving in runs instead of eating out every night at Red LOBster.
when i saw
what ludwick went for, i was suprised and slightly disappointed we didnt get him. i agree with you that we def could have put together a better package and i dont think we would have been separated from any of our big 3. and ludwick would be much better than ankiel but i would be shocked if wren doesnt do something between now and the end of aug..i think he has another move or two, not for a massive slugger but some more solid pieces. and hope for glaus to snap out of his latest funk
It's like Hank, the rightfielder, is passing the ball on to the next rightfielder, and saying, 'Here it is, kid. Catch it.'"
Freakin’ this.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Well when someone says that “there were much better hitters there to be had”, that kind of implies that they were readily available for the right price. So that would mean it was public knowledge that they were available. We heard about Cody Ross, but is he better than Ankiel? Willingham is, but was he ever really available? So I’m not seeing the need to make the statement “there were much better hitters there to be had if Frank Wren had shown a little creativity”.
As Mamma always said.... "This too shall pass."
I’m a frustrated fan with the way the team has been leaving men on base. I think we all are.
IMO, this has had much more to do with our losses than any defensive ut-ohs or shaky pitching.
But, I still believe in their ability to bounce back from this slump and give us great baseball way into October and hang another pennant (or better) inside the TED.
It’s going to be exciting from here on out to the end of the post-season!
"Curve: The loveliest distance between two points." ~ Mae West
Marathon, not a sprint.
Good refresher, mvhs. Without Chipper and Glaus our team is vulnerable, so we need them to step it up. We just need to weather the cold spell, and then light it up when they start hitting again.
Also...
we play a total of 10 games on the road in August (and we’ve already played 1 of the 10). 14 of our next 17 games are at the Ted. I think we’ll be able to stretch the lead out in the next few weeks for sure.
be done bitching...
so bitch if you must then be still
the rest of us probably will
find a positive reason
we’ll win out this season
the phillies are over the hill.
KC boys...
a sinuous slugger named Rick
said heck with this old pitching trick
i’ll hit for the Braves
Farns will get a few saves-
from Kansas but neither is hick.
Well put
I am concerned about the Phillies, and I think the offense is going through a slump, but the fact that the Braves are still in first despite this is very encouraging. I just hope they all get going/healthy again so that they can finish the regular season strong and head into October with some momentum.
by Andy Braves Fan on Aug 2, 2010 10:33 AM EDT reply actions
I think
The main issue on here is people either react super negatively or react super positively. I get just as offended when people jump on someone for saying something negative but yet truthful and getting torn into. It’s opinions people, you’re allowed to have them. Fact is the Phillies gained 5 games on us in 9 games. That should worry you. I think we’ll turn it around as our next set of games at home and the new few road trips shouldn’t be too tough. But if the offense keep’s putting on the displays of late… and keeps lowering it’s RISP numbers… The Phillies are going to have to equally suck because we’re not going to win games without hitting in the clutch AT LEAST once or twice a game.
by SuperHeyward on Aug 2, 2010 10:45 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
And yet..
it doesn’t. Worry me.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
and that’s perfectly fine.. I just don’t understand the hatred towards people that don’t always assume we will win every game from now on. If we were 2.5 games back we’d be pretty confident we could overtake the leader. And I know some Phillies fans… and they’re not worried either. One group will be wrong in the end. I hope our offense sparks and it’s not us.
by SuperHeyward on Aug 2, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not worried...
because worry doesn’t do any good. My life has improved dramatically since I began to believe this several years ago.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Exactly how I feel.
"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"
by bwellnjonesco on Aug 2, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't really get "offended" either way.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
To be fair...
We were up 7.5 games two weeks ago and had only lost one series in about a month. Now were up only 2.5 and have lost 3 of the last 4 series.
I dont think were in danger of falling apart or anything, but if your brain is in working order you have to see that there could be a problem, stemming from before Prado’s injury.
Maybe having Ankiel in CF will boost the lineup and give us that spark back. Maybe Glaus will remember what May felt like. All I know is this: the pitching has been good in this rough patch and the offense has been the opposite of clutch. Keep the pitching where its been all season and start hitting with RISP and we will regain that swagger that put us up 7.5 games.
We need to do it soon, because the Phils now are playing without Howard AND Utley and Utley is due to come back in a week or two.
The base paths belonged to me, the runner. The rules gave me the right. I always went into a bag full speed, feet first. I had sharp spikes on my shoes. If the baseman stood where he had no business to be and got hurt, that was his fault. -Ty Cobb
by Tim Goad on Aug 2, 2010 10:50 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
It’s really annoying when trolls come on and complain, of course they only do that when we lose. Do they have nothing better to do? As long as there is the internet, there will be trolls. AndyinGA got banned, right?
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
by MBL1 on Aug 2, 2010 10:52 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Agreed with some of the posters above
Its one thing to encourage optimism, but some people on this site act like its against the rules to point out glaring faults with this team and cent a little when the team is very flat and mediocre like it has been recently.
By the logic used in this piece, we could have been 11 games up, lost 10 in a row, and people would need to “stop bitching” because we’re still 1 game up?
Lets just face it. The offense sucks balls right now. Not everyone can walk around with rose covered glasses.
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Aug 2, 2010 10:53 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
colored* ftfy
The base paths belonged to me, the runner. The rules gave me the right. I always went into a bag full speed, feet first. I had sharp spikes on my shoes. If the baseman stood where he had no business to be and got hurt, that was his fault. -Ty Cobb
Eh, its early. Its my birthday. I partied a lot last night.
But thanks for ftfm
60% of the time, it works every time
no problem
I mean, you could probably walk around with rose covered glasses, but it would make it even harder to see.
The base paths belonged to me, the runner. The rules gave me the right. I always went into a bag full speed, feet first. I had sharp spikes on my shoes. If the baseman stood where he had no business to be and got hurt, that was his fault. -Ty Cobb
It would look cool though
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
by MBL1 on Aug 2, 2010 11:13 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
plus smell great!
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Troy Glaus, our right handed power bat, hit .182 and had 0 HR and 5 RBI in July and our best replacement is a 20 year old in AAA
Our #3 hitter is 38 years old and had a .708 OPS in July.
Matt Diaz is being platooned with a guy who hit .212 in July
Our much maligned CF situation went from Melky, to a failed Mclouth comeback, to a trade for a player who is slightly less mediocre when he’s on, but much worse when he’s not.
Look, I haven’t been one of the people spouting doom and gloom around here, as I think we can right the ship, but I can certainly, certainly see why some people might feel like bitching about this team. I hate to see people called “trolls” and “idiots” for saying things that have some really valid backing.
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Aug 2, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If you can't moan about the Bravos here where can you do it?
I do agree that it’s annoying to read many people’s knee jerk reaction or extremely unscientific opinions about the team over and over again. At least here is much better than the AJC blog comment section.
Now that we’re home, it’s time to win more of those tight games that we dropped this past week.
by LEastCoastBears on Aug 2, 2010 11:21 AM EDT reply actions
I hate to see people called "trolls" and "idiots" for saying things that have some really valid backing.
Agreed. I enjoy debating wtih folks who have differing opinions from mine. I never call anyone an “idiot” for disagreeing with me. Most of us know who the regulars are and then there are those who seem to come out only to write negative things. The price we pay for living in a free country. Plus we do get to set them straight.
•The Braves offense sucks — we still haven’t seen what a lineup with Prado, Ankiel and Gonzalez can do. I’m really looking forward to not having Melky in the lineup everyday. He’s not an everyday player, and he now joins the best bench in baseball.
Ummm…I don’t think we WANT to see what an offense of Ankiel and Gonzo can do. They are not good hitters. And, I have no clue why you don’t want our 2nd or 3rd best hitter since May on the bench. Melky has been one of the keys to our offense and our – GASP – 1st place run so far.
•Frank Wren is a bad GM — If you think this is the case, raise your right hand, flex, and quickly move it inwards towards you face until contact is made. Repeat. Repeat. And repeat again. It’s not his fault Liberty Media has dropped the Braves’ team salary by nearly $19M since he took over in 2007.
Agreed. FW has been one of the best in the biz since his time here in Atlanta began.
•Frank Wren didn’t help the Braves at the deadline —
First off all, shouldn’t we see how Ankiel and Farnsworth perform before making these judgements? It seems pointless to judge a trade before we see the outcome of the move. Second of all, it’s not like Frank Wren and the Front Office were in an easy situation.
This team needed a big bat – not a BP arm (we have a half-dozen in the minors that can be just as effective as Farnsworth) or ANOTHER 4th OF. We have 4 4th OFers now. We needed an everyday CF, and I don’t care if it has been 1 game, Rick Ankiel is NOT what we needed. I don’t have to wait a few weeks to realize this. Just like the Gonzalez deal, this one hurts our offense, not helps it.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 11:23 AM EDT reply actions
I thought about doing a counterpoint too...
“the offense sucks” I don’t go this far, but Glaus, Chipper, and other key contributors have been struggling severely lately, and we certainly are having troubles driving in runs. It’s not a ad offense, but if health doesn’t improve, there is a legit question of if it’s good enough to win a ring.
“Wren is a bad GM” Inconclusive to be honest. He’s made good moves and bad, and I don’t think a definitive conclusion on his GM ability can be made from his time here and in Baltimore.
“Wren didn’t make a move to help” this can honestly only be determined in 20/20 hindsight. On paper today, it certainly looks like Ankiel + Farnsworth > Blanco + Chavez. That, we can assume, helps some as you improve talent, but is it enough to help make the post season or win in the post season remains to be determined.
“horrible on the road” obviously not as good as at home, but then no team is. We’ve struggled of late, but overall appear to be among the better road teams in the majors.
“overworked bullpen” as a whole obviously not. but the key pieces are piling up a good amount of games it seems, adding Farnsworth, perhaps Resop or other Bobby would trust to lighten the load on Moylan, Venters, etc is certainly nice.
“TP needs to go” is old news and no comment. No one her can mke an intelligent case pro or con considering they don’t know the details of what TP does or doesn’t do. The powers that be like him, and that’s what matters.
“Didn’t counter Oswalt” well considering Oswalt’s opening, it’s arguable we did just that, making a move that will underwhelm most and may or may not improve the team enough to make a difference this year.
“Playing poorly now” well, our last several game prove that. But then momentum is only as good as tomorrow’s starter, and we got some good starters. So a bad week can easily and quickly transform into good (see 9 game losing streak followed by league best tear).
I liked the trade, but I took a little different perspective about it. I like the trade because it does give up an everyday CF in Ankiel. I realize he may not be the best hitter in the world, but he is good defensively and does add some pop. But where I take a different perspective is this: I don’t think Ankiel is going to take playing time away from Melky. I think Melky will go into more of a platoon in LF with Diaz. I don’t have the stats with me to back it up, but just to the “eye test” I saw Melky take some really bad routes to the ball in CF. I think we would be best defensively in LF. With this, it allows Hinske to play some first base, giving Glaus some time off.
Looking at the trade and saying that Melky>Ankiel is not the way to look at it. Look at it Ankiel>Blanco.
Melky in CF > Ankiel in CF
Yes, Ankiel is better than Blanco. I am not arguing that. But Ankiel IS taking playing time away from Melky – even if it only puts Melky in a platoon in LF. Melky has been one of our best hitters this season and has carried this offense over the past 2 months. It is not smart to replace him or put him on the bench.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe Melky platoon in both LF and CF.
vs RHP OF: Melky, Ankiel, Heyward
vs LHP OF: Diaz, Melky, Heyward
Guess we will see tonight
As long as Melky doesn’t lose playing time, I am fine with it.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Why is this the only sports blog where any type of criticism of your team may get you banned? This post was not necessary in my opinion.
I have criticized quite a bit lately, and I am still here making posts…
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t have time to find it right now, but the original poster threatened to ban anyone who bad mouthed the Braves in another thread. I don’t know how serious it was, but that’s what I was referring to.
I guarantee you it wasn’t serious.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
i understand
why he felt it was necessary. my question is why does every argument delve into childish name calling? this is one of the only blogs i read and comment on where every other commenter is calling somebody an idiot/moron/retard or cursing at them because they disagree. were not all going to agree with moves and players, but cant we do it like adults here?
It's like Hank, the rightfielder, is passing the ball on to the next rightfielder, and saying, 'Here it is, kid. Catch it.'"
If this is the only blog where every commenter is calling somebody that, then you must not visit many. It’s the internet, there’s always gonna be those types. I think TC is pretty fortunate NOT to have many people that comment like that. I really don’t think there’s a problem at all.
"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"
by bwellnjonesco on Aug 2, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
THANK YOU.
TC is becoming super regulated, super fast. It seems to be losing the “fan blog” atmosphere..
I know I don’t troll, but I still find myself triple guessing everytime I post, because if you make one reference that TC doesn’t like, then your gonna get hounded for it. That’s just not the way a fan blog should be.
"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"
by bwellnjonesco on Aug 2, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Fans shouldn’t interact with other fans?
Guys, seriously. Quit your bitching. The Mods aren’t banning anyone or warning people for posting their thoughts.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
No, you are misinterpreting me. I don’t mind a disagreement or whatever, that’s what makes blogging so fun. But it’s annoying to see everybody, and I mean everybody, getting bitched at for breaking little “rules” that have been implemented recently.
I just see alot of guys making one of their first posts (maybe not the best post, but whatever), and then getting hell laid on them, and probably not coming back.
Nice “bitching” drop too, just like everyone is bitching about people using….
"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"
by bwellnjonesco on Aug 2, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
You are totally blowing this out of proportion. I have never called anyone an idiot, moron, etc, and I’m sure there are plenty of other posters who also never have. I have never been called any of those things either, and I have disagreed with popular opinion at times. If you are respectful and at least somewhat intelligent about things, I doubt you will have any problems.
"Chase Utley can't polish Martin's shoes right now" Joe Simpson
by sleezer1788 on Aug 2, 2010 12:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Everybody isn’t as respectful and intelligent as we are sleezer.
However, they have every right as we do to make any post/comment they want. It’s a fan blog, bitching at people for being stupid fans isn’t fair.
Look at me, I was totally respectful. But apparaently, I should just “quit bitching”.
"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"
by bwellnjonesco on Aug 2, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
They do have the right to make their posts.
Others have the right to question why any sane person would say the things that they said, and make their response to the post.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I totally agree. However, “quit bitching” is not the way I recommend settling a question..
"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"
by bwellnjonesco on Aug 2, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
justincredible
please don’t let him be our representative.
Headlining the Campaign for the return of Ryan Langerhans! MVP 2011!
by RichmondBraves on Aug 2, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Trust me, I am not yours.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
True. I should have used a different expression. My apologies.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess I just meant that the people who aren’t being respectful don’t deserve our respect either and the people who aren’t intelligent enough to not act like idiots deserve to be called idiots. I don’t believe for a second that these people don’t know what they are doing. If someone is acting like a moron, they know it and deserve what they get.
"Chase Utley can't polish Martin's shoes right now" Joe Simpson
by sleezer1788 on Aug 2, 2010 12:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree. But, people that AREN’T morons, or maybe get misunderstood, are getting treated like morons. I’m seeing it more and more, and it’s not fair for the fan’s that don’t understand all specifics that we do.
"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"
by bwellnjonesco on Aug 2, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
There are plenty of people who make their first posts, and we rec the heck out of them.
Then, there are the “DSG:LKDSJG:LKJDSG:LKJS:LFKJDS:OUIHER:OI#){*%&#)%*&#_$&)_#&$)_#@&$” posts.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
There is respectfully criticizing, and then there is acting like a jackass. It is the latter that is the issue.
"Chase Utley can't polish Martin's shoes right now" Joe Simpson
by sleezer1788 on Aug 2, 2010 12:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It’s not the people who criticize the team but are still true, good fans. It’s the people who come on only when we lose and whine, over and over and over. They say who bad we are, how good the Phillies are and just plain whine. As long as there is the internet, there will be people like that.
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
by MBL1 on Aug 2, 2010 12:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
REC'd!
This is my favorite post ever. Cheers, and go Braves!
MileHighReport.com member since 02/06/07, promoted to "Position Coach" (i.e. new staff writer) on 02/16/10!
I enjoy debating with folks who have differing opinions from mine. I never call anyone an "idiot" for disagreeing with me. Most of us know who the regulars are and then there are those who seem to come out only to write negative things. The price we pay for living in a free country. Plus we do get to set them straight
Whether it be bitching or anything else...
As long as it is done in a “classy” and “non-assholish” way it seems fine to me. I come here to get away from the trashy and trollish posting you find in many sites like the ESPN Message boards. I enjoy active mods who keep it sensible while not censoring at the same time.
To the whole thread?
lol
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
To jbeachbum 24
And to you, justin, as we are politely having it out on another thread
just because Ludwick went for what we think is cheap that doesn’t mean the braves could have got him for cheap. maybe because we have a good farm they wanted to much from us
If that was the case, that is stupid GM-ment.
Think about it – a GM should get the best players available. Only a retarded GM would settle for lesser players from a lesser system because a better system wouldn’t give him as many better players as he wanted.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 2, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
you beat me to it
if that were the case, that GM should be fired on the spot
It's like Hank, the rightfielder, is passing the ball on to the next rightfielder, and saying, 'Here it is, kid. Catch it.'"
I appreciate the effort that went into this post but…
The Braves aren’t playing well and the lead has shrunk – quickly – to 2.5 games over the defending NL Champs. There is reason for people’s worries.
We went through a similar thing on a Buffalo Sabres board during hockey season. The Sabres got out to a nice lead in the NE division, hit a lull and some people started to voice concerns. Many people kept replying with the we are in first place, who cares mentality. The Sabres held on to first place but lost in the first round of the playoffs.
Now, hockey and baseball are two different sports of course but the thing to take away from that is we shouldn’t try to hide our weaknesses by saying “first place.”
Aren't you the guy
who told someone to go fuck themselves because they were negative?
Headlining the Campaign for the return of Ryan Langerhans! MVP 2011!
You’re like the 4th person who’s complained that I said “shut the fuck up”. I’m sorry for using the “f word” over the internet. I know it’s a big deal and all, and I know that you wouldn’t see that on any other site, so I’ll apologize again.
when is Frank Wren going to wake his Ass up and see the Braves needs a Batter? This game Against Washington is Showing the team is not hitting. Get some help are philadelphia is going bnack to First? If you can’t see this maybe john scherhous should replace your stupid ass.
by jayball on Jul 27, 2010 5:41 PM MST
by Scott Coleman on Aug 2, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
It's only because
you’re an author on the site and should be above that. It’s really unprofessional (cue pic of Garrett Anderson). I just think this post was incredibly unnecessary and a little embarrassing. The people who are actually reading this and commenting on this are not the people who just come into the game thread to complain. The regular members on this site act pretty good overall. Trying to diminish contrary opinions is a move to make the site more boring and would limit discussion. If justincredible wasn’t complaining about how Yunel is better than Gonzalez there would be, like, 30 posts on this. Instead there’s almost 200. We have worse problems then some guy who’s only gonna show up once or twice yelling “TRADE KAWAKAMI”
Headlining the Campaign for the return of Ryan Langerhans! MVP 2011!
by RichmondBraves on Aug 2, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If justincredible wasn’t complaining about how Yunel is better than Gonzalez there would be, like, 30 posts on this.
That’s why we keep Justin around these days. :)
Also, I know I probably shouldn’t have said it and i won’t in the future. I’ll choose better words. Since I’m an author, I’m supposed to look over every comment possible to keep the spamming, trolling, etc. down to a minimum. I guess seeing negative post after negative post got to me yesterday
when is Frank Wren going to wake his Ass up and see the Braves needs a Batter? This game Against Washington is Showing the team is not hitting. Get some help are philadelphia is going bnack to First? If you can’t see this maybe john scherhous should replace your stupid ass.
by jayball on Jul 27, 2010 5:41 PM MST
by Scott Coleman on Aug 2, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
It's ok!
Just a lapse in judgement. We’re good.
Headlining the Campaign for the return of Ryan Langerhans! MVP 2011!
by RichmondBraves on Aug 2, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
On Terry Pendleton...
If you think TP is the problem, you should really go back and read pacgnosis’s great analysis of his performance as a hitting coach: http://www.talkingchop.com/2010/4/27/1446842/terry-pendleton-is-not-a-bad
"It wasn’t that it was slippery or anything like that. It was just, dadgum, my hands and the balls were so wet..." - Tim Hudson
"And those two guys at the end. My God. Jonny (Venters) and Billy (Wagner), just awesome." - Bobby Cox
by KoKo the Monkey (T-Bone) on Aug 2, 2010 2:20 PM EDT reply actions
It was one of the best arguments “pro” for him that I’ve seen at least.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
But... but...
he sucks?
Headlining the Campaign for the return of Ryan Langerhans! MVP 2011!
by RichmondBraves on Aug 2, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not gonna waste much time reading all the above comments...
Mostly because I feel it’s probably full of the people you were gearing the post towards, blowing off more stubborn and redundant steam. But if I could Rec this a hundred times, I would sit here and do it.
Out of our eight 2nd Half losses, two were in extra innings and all but the 9-3 drubbing by Milwaukee were by 3 runs or less. Yes, Philly has been on a tear since the break. We’ve been in a funk more so than a slump. But even still, we have the second largest division lead in all of MLB!
We’ve got some things to right. Prado needs to come back healthy (though who rather would you have to fill in than Omar? – what a luxury…) The trade solidifies us and should allow us to get the same production and versatility from CF that we have from our healthy LF platoon. And Tough-As-Nails Farnsworth, who has experience in every bullpen role, can help alleviate our reliance on Venters amongst other things he brings…
The one remaining uncertainty is Troy. I know we all want it bad for him to regain his May-June form, but I can pretty much guarantee we don’t want it as bad as he does. He seems dedicated to breaking his slump, and much like he did in April, I’ve got faith the guy can turn it around.
Looking back on the last five seasons helps put things in perspective. It’s nice to be relevant again, and for better or worse, it’s nice to be able to have these largely petty arguments about a team that’s led the division for some two months, but let’s not be Yankee-like and threaten to boycott the season after one bad road trip…
Most of all, remember three things: Farnsworth gets us to the playoffs, by default Hinske gets us to the World Series, and Heyward…well…he’ll win us the ring!
Great time to be a BRAVE!
::Positive Energy::
''We cover the outfield like kudzu covers the land around here" - Bobby Cox, 2004
It's actually the exact opposite
It’s just people saying what you said.
Headlining the Campaign for the return of Ryan Langerhans! MVP 2011!
by RichmondBraves on Aug 2, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Ahh, redundancy...
Must not be the same people at the in-game threads…
''We cover the outfield like kudzu covers the land around here" - Bobby Cox, 2004
Amen
Quit bellyaching. The Braves are the deepest team in the NL 1-25. Who actually thought the team was going to play .600 baseball the entire rest of the year? Baseball teams hit skids. It’s part of the game. The idea is to keep the division close and then rely on luck.
There was no player out there that was a “must have.” There wasn’t. Every player was either horridly over priced or horridly overrated.
This is where you want to be. It’s August and we are in first place. Our biggest competition doesn’t have the rotation, the bench, or the pen that we do. That makes me feel pretty good, quite frankly.
The best deal....
is the bad one that you DON’T do. Classically, we needed a big bopper to play CF. It’s not like we could have traded for Joltin’ Joe, Ken Griffey Jr or Mickey Mantle (in their primes) and failed to do it. The available material for trade wasn’t enough to improve the club, so I think FW just didn’t pull the trigger – and if that’s the case, it’s the right decision.
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