Braves Considering A Trade For Rockies' Clint Barmes
by gondeee on Aug 16, 2010 5:17 PM EDT
in Braves Trade News
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PrintPer MLBTR, Ken Rosenthal has this to say about the Braves possible trade interest in Rockies second baseman Clint Barmes:
The Braves are considering Barmes along with other potential replacements for injured third baseman Chipper Jones, but the Rockies have yet to place Barmes on waivers, sources say. Barmes could play second for the Braves, with Martin Prado moving to third. Prado is scheduled to return from the disabled list this week.
Don't we already have a Clint Barmes in Alex Gonzalez? Barmes has some pop, but he is wildly inconsistent. Adding him as depth could be a solid plan, but adding him and taking at-bats away from Omar Infante -- at this point at least -- is not a good idea.
Barmes is arbitration eligible for the last time after this season, and was likely going to be a non-tender candidate for the Rockies. Kelly Johnson would be a much better option than Barmes at this point. Of course, Barmes wouldn't cost the Braves nearly as much as KJ likely would.
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Have you seen our LOB rates?
Because yeah, that’s about all they’re accomplishing.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
The last few games aside...
The issue at first base is much more pressing than additional middle infield depth. Infante is a better option at this point and should keep his spot at 2nd and Prado moved to third upon his return.
id much rather have kelly but theres no way no one else would claim him, but i would much rather have him on the bench than hicks
by bravesrgonnawinitall on Aug 16, 2010 5:23 PM EDT reply actions
Hell, I'd rather have him at 2B with Prado at 1st.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
DO NOT WANT
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
by MBL1 on Aug 16, 2010 5:27 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
4th'd
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Aug 16, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Want want no no
"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"
by bwellnjonesco on Aug 16, 2010 7:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
who do you suggest then?
we don’t want him to start but now that Infante will start games since Chipper is out we need someone in the bench if nothing else to give the starters a rest every now and then.
I like the idea of Aramis…
"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"
by bwellnjonesco on Aug 16, 2010 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
DEF THIS
[Mets] GM Omar Minaya confirmed to Andy Martino of the New York Daily News that the Mets aren't going to fire any coaches today. July 26, 2010.
"What was more odd than that pitch being low is that Jeff Francoeur didn't swing at it." -- Jim Powell, Aug. 4, 2010.
Definitely...
It’s because of all of Wren’s ‘horrible’ moves that we are now first place in the NL East. Man….Wren is a prick…the nerve of that guy.
People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.
by mvandonsel on Aug 16, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Off topic but...
KRod tore a ligament in his thumb, apparently because of the incident last week. Needs surgery. AHAHAHA
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
by MBL1 on Aug 16, 2010 5:34 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I saw
the FanShot of NCChopper’s Chipper graphic and said “YES!”
I scrolled down, read this and said “NO!”
Atlanta Hawks=the team that drafted big $$$$$$$$$ instead of big men.
A depth move, and cheap...
This move keep Brandon Hicks from coming back to Atlanta to do little/nothing.
Prado to 3rd, Infante to 2nd, Barmes to super utility. As far as "utility guys" go, Barmes is well above average defensively. He’s easily a better fielder than Prado or Infante. In fact, if we’re really that worried about Alex Gonzalez making errors late in the game, he can replace him as well.
This year’s theme, above all, is depth. Barmes is a guy that can add to that depth in the wake of Chipper’s loss. If we’re concerned about improving the last spot on the bench, this move would certainly do that.
He does carry the (deserved or undeserved) designation of being a "clutch" player here in Denver. His slash line improves pretty dramatically with people on the base paths.
He also hits LHP way better than RHP, so maybe there’s another silver lining in his potential addition.
-C
by cthabeerman on Aug 16, 2010 5:39 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
To clarify...
I don’t see this as being anything more than a “Rockies trade Clint Barmes, 2B/SS, to the Atlanta Braves for a player to be named later/cash considerations.”
-C
why is it always prado to 3rd and infante at 2nd
is it just me or is the gonzo/prado duo much better together than the gonzo/infante duo (as a reference just watch some games from two weeks ago)
by ChitownBravos on Aug 16, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
By all accounts (at least the ones I've heard)...
Prado is the better 3rd baseman of the two.
I’d be perfectly fine w/ them switched, makes no real difference to me.
-C
Prado was taking ground balls at 3rd today and I believe is playing 3rd base tonight for the G-Braves
by FreddieFreemanTime on Aug 16, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I alwys read your name as..
Chit Own Bravos…Of course, there may be some truth to that name, too:
"You can't print what I said, but they have to catch us." - Chipper Jones
Because Prado is mediocre at 2B on a good day, and Infante's ain't good at third.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I concur wholeheartedly.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
i wouldn't mind the KJ idea...
even though i know it won’t happen…
by SouthernPanther on Aug 16, 2010 5:41 PM EDT reply actions
Not me
He’s still the same guy we got rid of. One great month, two bad months, one good month. That’s not worth what he would cost.
I agree
K.J. is not only streaky and prone to the big error at just the wrong moment (seems we’ve got enough of that already), he’s not a good guy in the Bravos clubhouse. K.J. pulls us down….let’s try somebody new.
Is it really better...
To watch the ball roll by you three steps over than to make an error on a play Prado wouldn’t even sniff?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, the same guy.
The one who produces virtually the same value at the plate and far more with the glove than Prado.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
ive heard
so hopefully they dont call my bluff
by ChitownBravos on Aug 16, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
bill shanks tweeted that we will NOT sign stefan sabol
also, geoff blum and craig counsell cleared waivers – braves could have interest
Quick fantasy question for you intelligent sports fans
Would you pick up Omar if it meant dropping Starlin Castro???? I need to convince myself its a good idea
There isn’t any intelligent sports fans here.
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
by MBL1 on Aug 16, 2010 6:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ahem...
There AREN’T any intelligent sports fans here…
;-)
"You can't print what I said, but they have to catch us." - Chipper Jones
EXACTLY MY POINT!
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
by MBL1 on Aug 16, 2010 6:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What’re Barmes’ career and season stats? At work on my BB, so it’ll take too long to look up on my own.
As long as Omar Auto-Single Infante is the starter and Barmes is the bench depth, this trade doesn’t look too bad.
Morton hit Heyward with an offspeed pitch. Early indication is that the baseball survived the impact.
by award6 on Aug 16, 2010 5:51 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
noooooooooooooooooooo
please dont add any more mediocre players
You'd prefer awful ones like Hicks and Hernandez?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Barmes
Hasn’t been put on waivers….this all Rosethal rumor BS at this point…but usually 48hr of claim of waiver unless that has changed
Barmes would be a great addition to the bravos!!
For those of you that don’t think so, you must not know baseball too well and the situations that we will be geting into from here on out. We need another guy like Barmes to help DEFENSIVELY, AND has some POP in his bat. 2 things the braves need on the bench , period!! nuff said….!!
Consider this, without Chipper, we now have prado, infante, gonzo, and hicks, 4 players 3 positions. Now what happens if we pinch hit in the 7th with say hicks, what happens in the 8th or 9th when you need to put in a defensive replacement for gonzo, OR need another INFIELD pinchhitter for Saito or venters?? OR even extra inning games, OR another injury???Exactly, we got nothing!! We need a guy like Barmes, who’s good defensively, good pop in his bat AND has a history of late inning clutch hits, that we’ll surely need at least 2-3 times with the way Wagner’s blowing saves!!
WARNING!!
Talking $h!+ about the Atlanta Falcons may result in an A$$ whooping you'll never forget!! (Avatar sign)
by ATLsince1972 on Aug 16, 2010 6:01 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
For those of you that don’t think so, you must not know baseball
This is the easiest way to make sure people won’t read the rest of your post.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Aug 16, 2010 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Haha
That is exactly what I did.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Aug 16, 2010 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know much about baseball, but hitting 8 HR isn’t all that much pop, especially considering he plays half his games at Coors field (granted less HR are being hit there), you could cut that total in half playing in Turner field. It’s what happens when you play at the Ted.
Barmes as terrible numbers in his career playing in ATL. He is a career .208 HR with 0 HR (13 G, 48 AB)…
Worse yet is Barmes always sucks in the 2nd half, a career .267 hitter PRE-ASB, and .240 POST-AB. This year his splits are .247 pre, and .198 post. That is disgusting and doesn’t justify a “we need him for DEFENSE” argument. We already have top notch pitching, we don’t need D and P, we need the O.
I love three 3 things in life: Family, Money, and Baseball. Come March the order of those three get changed up a bit.
Brooks Conrad...
Does not approve of this message…
"You can't print what I said, but they have to catch us." - Chipper Jones
What does Brooks have to do with this??
Simple answer: Nothing.
Barmes wouldn’t come here to play third. He’d come as a utility guy for 2B/SS.
At worst, this moves leave Brooks in the same position he was in pre-Chipper injury.
-C
Brooks has everything to do with the post Jman was commenting on (hence the reply post)
Brooks could be used as a defensive replacement, etc as Brooks was left out in the post.
Keep up ;)
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Aug 16, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Tuche'
Point taken, ha.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Aug 16, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
for the record...
we would never pinch hit with Hicks in the seventh inning.
(I know it’s a relatively small point in a post with so many glaring points of contention, but still…)
Hicks does not have enough offensive presence to warrant pinch-hitting in the seventh. Hinske, Conrad, Ankiel, Ross, Melky, or whoever else is not starting that game would be sent to PH before Hicks.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Aug 16, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Clint Eastwood would be a better move than this.
A baseball diamond is, most simply, the intersecting of four 90-foot baselines, and, most powerfully, the intersecting of seemingly random lives.
The only way I would approve of a deal for a replacement player who is underperforming enough/has a bad enough contract to where he would pass through waivers is if one or both of McLouth or Kawakami is included on our end.
Other than that, keep what we have. Call up Timmons, even if that means Hicks DFA. Call up Barbaro and Freeman to shore up the bench, Kimbrel to help out in the ’pen, and activate EOF all when rosters expand in a few weeks (the latter could happen sooner as long as Martinez is the one sent down). That is all we need.
In any other situation either the hypothetical replacement player is too good a player to pass through all of the teams in the NL to reach us via waivers, or is bad enough to where he does, in which case, we should not want him anyway.
The end.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Aug 16, 2010 6:23 PM EDT reply actions
This move would be silly and pointless.
Barmes does nothing well. He stinks in Denver, and he’s even worse on the road. Brooks Conrad and Omar Infante are both far better players.
Now, if we’re just planning on stashing him on the bench in place of Hicks, I could kind of see it (assuming he cost nothing)… Except then where does Barmes go when Martin comes back?
Oh, and KJ? That ship has sailed, everyone.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
Wrong on one account
Barmes is a terrific second baseman. His UZR isn’t going to pop out and smack you in the face, but watching him play everyday (as I do, nearly) will quickly educate you on how slick he is defensively.
I think everyone’s getting the premise of the move wrong. He’s not going to start, he’s not going to play much at all. If he comes over, he’ll pinch-hit in situations advantageous to his offensive skills (namely LHP and with runners on base). He’ll provide some late inning defensive replacement work. That’s really about it.
Can he do these things better than Brandon Hicks?? Absolutely. And he’s only likely to get traded for cash or some throwaway part. I fail to see the downside to bringing him in.
-C
by cthabeerman on Aug 16, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Please tell me you didn’t just say that watching someone play regularly leads you to believe they’re better than their UZR. Sigh.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
FWIW
His UZR is 10.5 at 2B and 13.4 at SS.
And UZR doesn’t account for ability at turning DPs, which Barmes is exceptional at doing. So, yes, it can happen.
-C
Not to mention UZR isn’t a perfect metric like so many of the fangraphs clan want you to think it is.
by get swoll yunel on Aug 16, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh my.
First, you need to use UZR/150 rather than UZR when using career numbers, since UZR is a cumulative stat. Quoting someone’s career UZR is meaningless and misleading.
Second, when using the proper UZR/150 numbers we see that Barmes’s UZR/150 the last 3 years is below his career norms, which is not uncommon for a 31-year old playing the pivot.
Finally, my point was not that UZR should be taken as gospel (it shouldn’t), but that ad hoc visual observation as a supplement or correction to UZR numbers is a flawed and unreliable measurement.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
For Pete's sake.
Then he’s about a six, regardless of whether he’s playing SS or 2B. He’s above average, and exceptional at one of the defensive attributes UZR doesn’t account for.
Take it or leave it, but stop bitching, in any event.
-C
Whoa, relax and have a beer, man.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
No problem...but let's channel that stuff where it belongs...
…at that’s right at one Chad Billingsley, tonight.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Actually, UZR does take DPs into account.
DPR.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Would he be better collectively (cheaper and more productive) than Wes Timmons?
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Aug 16, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Wes Timmons hasn't been called up, so...
Factor in his then-league minimum salary, factor in the pro-rated Barmes salary, and I think it might cost about $500,000 more. Not a huge leap.
Timmons doesn’t play short and plays sparingly at 2B, so I’d call Barmes much more valuable.
When considering Barmes (or the effects of Chipper’s injury, for that matter), why are we looking at 3B?? We have a backup already in Brooks. We have a starter in Prado/Infante.
The position we’re lacking, post-injury, is the utility role, because our utility guy becomes the starter at either second or third. We have Chipper’s 2010 replacement (unless Figgins or the like magically becomes available), we don’t have Infante’s replacement.
-C
Counterpoint...
Wouldn’t Barmes replace Diory Hernandez? I don’t think he’d be above Conrad as a pinch hitter (or at least hope not), or above Infante for starts. So then wouldn’t Barmes just be additional infield depth, taking over for Hernandez as that last one on the bench, or at most replacing Infante’s role as versatile backup that comes in for any IF position defensively.
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