Can The Braves Win Without Chipper? Are We About To Find Out?
by gondeee on Aug 11, 2010 8:50 AM EDT
Email
Print
It was a sobering night for Braves fans, as we face the prospect that we could be without our third baseman and three-hole hitter for an extended period of time. Chipper Jones made an unbelievable throw to first base in the sixth inning of Tuesday's game -- fielding, turning, throwing in one leaping motion -- throwing out the running from across the diamond. But when he landed he immediately when into a crumpled mass of pain on the ground.
After a few minutes Chipper limped off the field and into the clubhouse. Braves fans, and likely the Braves themselves, thought the worse. Memories of the ACL tear in the same knee back in 1994 began to cross everyone's mind. Would knee injuries be the bookends of his Hall of Fame career?
This morning, though, is better news. While there is little doubt that Chipper will need to spend some time on the all too familiar disabled list, there is a hope that the worst outcome -- an ACL tear -- could be avoided. Chipper after the game:
"He told me out on the field, your ACL is stable. When I did it the first time, if I locked out my knee and I had weight on it, the top half of my leg would roll over the bottom half. And that’s not happening [this time].
"I’m pretty confident it’s not the ACL. There might be a slight tear, but it’s not completely torn." [...]
"But I’ve got a very distinct pain on the lower left side of my knee. Just got to wait for the MRI."
Measured optimism, I'd say. This raises some unfortunate questions. The first being, 'who would play third base?' This injury happened at a time when the most likely candidate, Martin Prado, is also on the disabled list, and not available until Monday. Brooks Conrad, who filled in and won the game for the Braves, is the candidate by default. This will certainly consume what's left of our reserve middle infielders, and force more inexperienced players into bench roles, greatly weakening the Braves bench -- which was a strength of the team.
If Chipper is out for any extended period of time, the Braves would have to think about making a trade for a starting infielder. While Conrad has shown a propensity for late-inning heroics, he's certainly not the type of player who can match the production or presence that Chipper Jones brings to the Braves lineup on an everyday basis.
The only options on the 40-man roster to replace an infielder are Diory Hernandez, already in the Majors to replace Prado, and Brandon Hicks, who proved unprepared for the Major Leagues in his brief appearances this year. The only other options in the Braves system are likely organizational player Wes Timmons and journeyman Joe Thurston, and while Thurston has Major League experience, he's not that good.
With the Braves offense already struggling, and one of our regulars (Prado) already out, the prospect of losing Chipper is a harsh one for the Braves. Certainly no more injuries can be accounted for, and under-performers like Troy Glaus must turn things around; after a home run last night there are signs that he is returning to form.
As Chipper, the Braves, and all of Braves Country wait for news on the knee, we all hope for the best, but somehow expect the worse. What should the Braves do if Chipper is out for a long time? What should they do even if is only out for a couple of weeks? Is it now imperative that Frank Wren make a trade to at least acquire an insurance policy against a Chipper-less playoff run? Discuss.
287 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Timmons?
The guy has a good glove and has hit the ball well this year. Maybe he should get the chance to come up and split time with Conrad until Prado gets back. Thurston has more experience but I’d at least give Timmons a shot to see what he can do for 20 at bats or so.
In an ideal world, sure
I just don’t know that Glaus’ legs are capable of the mobility needed to play third at this point.
Kawakami - 1, Halladay - 0
Did you happen to see the chopper three feet to his right in the 8th inning last night? That’s all you need to know.
by CharlotteChop on Aug 11, 2010 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions
At the very least bring up freeman even if the braves don't use Glaus at 3rd
Politicians are like diapers. They both need changing regularly and for the same reason.
Hinske
Hinske can play third too. We could move him over there and still call up Freeman as insurance for Glaus.
I forgot about Hinske at 3rd. Not the world’s worst option.
by CharlotteChop on Aug 11, 2010 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Hinske...
…hasn’t seen significant time at 3B since 2004, and he wasn’t a good defensive third baseman then. I don’t know if he would be any better than Glaus.
True, maybe thats why I forgot about him as an option. That said, I can assure you it’s a “better” (maybe not that much better, but better) option than Glaus. He can’t move or throw, at least Hinske can throw it across.
by CharlotteChop on Aug 11, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d say bring up Freeman anyways once Prado comes back. A weak bench is not as bad as a tired starting 1B, and the bench problems will solve themselves once Prado comes back and we can move Infante around again.
Conrad can hold the fort the rest of the year if needed, and a rested Glaus might be able to play 3B in a pinch. Timmons is also an option, though not a good one.
I see no need for a deal right now, unless we can give up Kawakami/Lowe for it (Chone Figgins perhaps?)
I think I disagree with just about everything you said here.
Bringing up Freeman I’m okay with. I don’t believe Conrad can hold the fort the rest of the year. He’s great as a pinch-hitter, but as an every day third baseman, not so much. There is no way Glaus could play third. The man can barely move at first. Send a screamer at him in the hot corner and his legs might literally fall off. Timmons, in my opinion, is much like liability car insurance. He could keep us from completely going in the crapper, but he’s not going to add any value.
Last, there is a need for a deal right now. If we expect to make a stretch run (with the Phils just 2.5 back, and getting their players healthy again), we need a solid third baseman who hits for decent power and can get some RBIs and cause us to win close games. I love Infante (and his BA), but he isn’t a run producer. Also, if you think we should only make a trade if we can give up Kawakami/Lowe for it, you’re off the reservation. Other teams know this puts us in a bind, and there’s no way they will be willing to part with a solid third baseman (or even a good infield utility guy who can play third) for an overpriced pitcher. They’ll want one of our young guys. Before Medlen got hurt, I would say Minor is the obvious candidate, but now I’m not so sure who it would be.
by hailtogeorgia on Aug 11, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
we need a solid third baseman who hits for decent power and can get some RBIs and cause us to win close games
That sounds like Conrad. Yeah, there’s a chance he could get overexposed at 3B, but I think in the short term he can handle, and September callups happen also. Glaus with rest might get his legs back. There’s also Infante if Conrad fails, so there are internal options that don’t require mortgaging the future. As for run production, enough slap hits will equal runs eventually, just not consistently (which is the problem this year)
I don’t think we can dump Kawakami/Lowe, but that’s what it would take for me to consider such a trade.
ew
who would take lowe’s spot in the rotation?? You could have thought about that with Medlen healthy but with him down now that is not an option this late in the pennant race.
by Norman Johnson on Aug 11, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Kawakami.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Is he still with the Franchise? I thought he got killed by the Predator in the first act.
by Bronn on Aug 11, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Now that I think about it, you are correct.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Lowe has 3 straight QS's
food for thought…
"Voetbal is pas totaal als je wint"- Coach Adun
"The greatest sin is to spurn the gift"- Coach Alistair
We'll agree to disagree on the Conrad issue.
I think he’s great as a pinch hitter and as a spot starter when a guy needs a day off, but I think his production would go way down once he was moved into an every day role. I could be wrong, and if the Braves decide to go that route, I hope he proves me wrong, but I just don’t see him being what we need at third for the rest of the season.
As for Glaus, I don’t think he’s getting his legs back regardless. I’m not saying we should mortgage the future, I’m just pointing out that saying you’ll only consider a trade involving Lowe or Kawakami is foolish. If we try to make a move to get a decent third baseman, it wouldn’t just have to be a rental. Chipper could be done for the season, and he very well could be done for his career. We’ve all known we need an every day replacement for him for a while, so if the opportunity is there to get one, I say go for it.
If Conrad fails, I don’t think you can rely on Infante either. An infield including Prado, Gonzalez, Glaus, and Infante is not enough power to bolster a lineup. Chipper’s resurgence is largely the reason we’re still in this thing, and we need to replace that production as soon as possible. Conrad and Infante won’t do that.
by hailtogeorgia on Aug 11, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
That's what we will likely do.
Conrad does the spot starter duty until Monday, then Infante plays third when Prado comes back. No, it isn’t as good. But barring a trade, which may not even be possible (remember, the Phillies have infield injury issues too and get to claim people before us on waivers), there isn’t really anything else we can do unless Glaus or Hinke could actually play third which is questionable.
Agreed, bring up Freeman
He’s the only guy available to us that can even come close to making up for the offense we lose in chipper. Sure, Glaus is immobile at third, but we can platoon him with some bench guys, and I’d rather have a hole in the infield than a hole in the lineup where Chipper used to be. I dunno. I’m probably dreaming. This sucks. Sad face.
by pancanbra on Aug 11, 2010 9:09 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
The first thing I thought when I saw Chipper laying on the ground was “Well, if that was the last play Chipper ever made, it was a hell of a play”.
What really sucks is that you could see over the last month how he was seeing the ball really well at the plate and looked like he was the Chipper of two years ago. I hope he’s only out 3-4 weeks. If he comes back hitting like he was, we have a shot to hold off the Phillies. Unfortunately, aside from Infante, he’s been the only consistant hitter since the all-star break. So our already struggling offense just got a lot worse. Glaus, Hey and Mac need to have a great 6 weeks.
Not sure if we need another IF…. when Prrado comes back I would imagine that he’ll play 3rd while Omar plays second full time. Who would be available anyway?
I would say Alex Gordon, but its probably unlikely he would fall to us in a waiver claim. If for some reason he did, he could fill in while Chipper is out and maybe be his replacement next year. I would also like the idea of moving Troy over and calling up FF, but Glaus’ knees probably aren’t up to it.
Jason Heyward is so good, he makes David Wright piss in Ryan Howard’s pants
by heap16 on Aug 11, 2010 9:13 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Good point, but would you also be against Freeman? He’s left-handed.
Jason Heyward is so good, he makes David Wright piss in Ryan Howard’s pants
by heap16 on Aug 11, 2010 11:26 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
"The worst outcome -- an ACL tear"
Unfortunately, there are plenty of other options that, being almost mid August, could end his season. Sharp pain in the lower left knee could be torn or sprained meniscus, severely/ not severely sprained knee, sprained MCL/ ACL- any of those this late in the season could end Chipper’s season.
I am trying to stay optimistic because I remember in San Fran a few years ago I thought he shredded his ACL on a popup he slipped on the infield grass and it turned out to be a sprain.
it could just be a sprain and he could be back in action in 15 or 20 days. we and the Braves will know as of the radiologist making an interpretation on the impending MRI. until then, nothing happens and notwithstanding the anxiety, we should all just chill.
chill? Easy for you to say! HA! I serioulsy had tears in my eyes last night.
by CharlotteChop on Aug 11, 2010 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
dear CC: I am and have always been a very big fan of Chipper. I am as upset and worried as anyone. Speculating and projecting doomsday scenarios are, however, not going to make me feel any better, especially since we are going to know what is what in 24 or 30 hours. Thanks. fandave
was just jerkin your chain dude, go take a nap.
by CharlotteChop on Aug 11, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
fandave is not very friendly. Don’t take it personal.
Don't kiss an ass if it's in the process of shitting on you.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
by buzzdeadwax on Aug 11, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Depends on what chain he is referring to…
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
figured when I threw in the “HA!” you would know I was being good natured, since you didn’t I figured maybe you woke up on the wrong side of the bed and simply suggested you might want to take a nap. Guess I was wrong, maybe you can find someone to jerk the chain justin is referring to to help you feel better :)
by CharlotteChop on Aug 11, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Very well played.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
actually, I could without a doubt use both a nice nap (preferably under a palm tree on a breezy tropical beach far far away) and especially the other (if I correctly catch the drift).
haha- couldn’t we all! Some days these threads stess me out!
by CharlotteChop on Aug 11, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Initially when chipper said he had pain in his lower left knee,
I immediatly thought that he’d torn his meniscus. I tore mine back in march playing ball and i felt the exact same pain in my right knee
Can Alex Gonzalez play third????
It might make sense to move Infante to SS…But what do I know?
I do know that I don’t want Chipper’s career to end this way…Yes, it was a great play, but goodness…It appears that even a best-case scenario would keep him out for some time…That stinks, too, as he was killing it of late…
What options are there to trade for (of guys who would actually clear waivers)?
I would think he would almost certainly get picked up by another team before getting to us.
by hailtogeorgia on Aug 11, 2010 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Even...
At his salary? He is making 16.75 MM this year; I don’t know what that would be for the remainder of the year, but I don’t even think the Braves would take that price tag…Who would take him?
Omar Minaya?
There are some pretty dumb FOs out there, and Aramis would be a lot like a bug zapper to some of them. However, I didn’t know he was making that much this year, so that does change it a bit.
by hailtogeorgia on Aug 11, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Dan Johnson?
great AAA player, low cost (this is important), roster filler for the Rays, has hit well when called up. You can’t really call him a prospect. I think he’s a righty, and he’s been stuck behind Longoria over there
"Voetbal is pas totaal als je wint"- Coach Adun
"The greatest sin is to spurn the gift"- Coach Alistair
Dan Johnson...
…is a first baseman, and is now up with the Rays b/c Pena is hurt.
Ramirez
has a 18 million a year player option for next year. i’ve heard he’s a good guy in the club house, but that’s a bit much.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Aug 11, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
we have alot of money coming off next year and if chipper retires the 18million ramirez own would be pretty much a wash.
by traderchris on Aug 11, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
his slash is kind of depressing
.228/16/54/.709 – his obp alone is .286. 18 million seems a bit much for that
"Voetbal is pas totaal als je wint"- Coach Adun
"The greatest sin is to spurn the gift"- Coach Alistair
I don’t know why, but I thought this was funny.
by CharlotteChop on Aug 11, 2010 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm almost positive
We’ll just sit tight and wait on Prado’s return. Glaus -1B/Infante – 2B/Gonzalez – SS/Prado – 3B is a fine infield.
Kawakami - 1, Halladay - 0
Any chance we could pickup Chone Figgins, or does his contract make that impossible?
He is a Georgia boy, and is probably better at 3B than 2B, would add some speed to the lineup…
Yeah I could see that but I wonder if he would fit in this clubhouse?
Jason Heyward wins at baseball.
I think the Figgins as a clubhouse issue is overblown.
He had one blow up with his manager this year when he was frustrated with both his own and his team’s performance. I have never heard any other problems with him.
That being said, he is really only an option if the news on Chipper is bad (let’s face it, if he is going to have a full year recovery time, he probably hangs them up) given his contract and the fact that the Mariners will probably want something for him. And this all assumes that the Phillies don’t claim him on waivers to stop us from getting him.
Interesting...
He’s signed through 2013 at a reasonable (but still high) price…This year he’s making $8.5 MM…And 9MM in 11 and 12 and 8MM in 2013…
It would be a gamble, but if he returned to form, he would add some needed speed to the team..
He is batting .452 in August, fwiw...Seattle recently fired the manager with whom he had a spat
he would be the perfect two hole hitter, or could bat leadoff, keep Heyward in the 2 hole and move Prado to 3rd in the order…
I'd be okay with getting him here,
but I don’t want to move Prado from the leadoff spot. That move is what jumpstarted this team to be where it is now. No reason to change that.
by hailtogeorgia on Aug 11, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I know Prado was the spark...
…but if we got Figgins, it would make no sense to hit him anywhere but leadoff. He is good with the walks and has speed. Prado is great hitting second—-he has a good OBP and it is mostly all hits, which can get a Figgins from first to third. Then Heyward bats third and the rest of the order remains the same.
If they took back KK, Lowe, or McLouth...
maybe. Not sure who else would be available.
by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 11, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
"Or", not "and"...
seems pretty doubtful we’d move both since one would be needed to start.
by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 11, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
A school for ANTS????!!!
I thought hurricane season was over........
by bravesguy311 on Aug 11, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
we asked about Chone
at the deadline and the Mariniers said he wasn’t available.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Aug 11, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
even if they made him available, he would get claimed off waivers.
The Mets, for instance, would snap him up.
If the Braves placed KK on the waiver wire what’s to keep the Mariners from picking him up? If needed a deal can be worked out prior to a player being placed on waivers and then the team with the better record place the discussed player on waivers so the team with the worst record can pick him up.
That way I don’t think Chone or whoever would have to clear waivers, or am I wrong?
Both players have to pass thru waivers
Either way, the Mets wouldn’t “snap up” Figgins. He’s got a bad contract. There’s little or no reason to do that, because his offense doesn’t play any better at Citi Field than it does in Seattle.
-C
not really
the Mets have SERIOUS $ issues. The Wippons are annoyed that they put all this money up for a $#%@ty team again. They won’t take on the salary for someone having a year Chone is having.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Aug 11, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
When Prado comes back
1. Prado 3B
2. Infante SS
3. Heyward RF
4. Glaus 1B (if his little hot streak means a famous Glaus month long tear)
5. McCann C
6. Diaz/Hinske LF
7. Ankiel CF
8. Gonzalez SS
That lineup isn’t all that bad and would be better defensively than what we have now but of course losing Chipper hurts the lineup offensively.
Jason Heyward wins at baseball.
I'd like this!
I’d also bring up Wes Timmons to take Chipper’s spot since he can play 3B, 2B and 1B.
not sure it's much of a hot streak
before last night, his OPS had fallen 15 over 7 games at a steady clip
"Infield hits are sexy, because they require technique."
-Ichiro
by VivaLosBravos on Aug 11, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I think an ACL tear might be the BEST option in this scenario. After the initial pain (for the first few days), you can function on your leg again without any pain. Once an ACL is torn, you can’t damage it any more, so there is no harm in continuing to play on it. Wear a compression brace to prevent your knee from popping out and you should be good to go – assuming that Chipper plans on retiring at the end of the year.
If he wants to continue playing, he should probably just have the surgery and spend the 6 months working to get his knee back in shape.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 9:55 AM EDT reply actions
You can assume he is retiring
but I’m not. No one knows if Chipper is going to retire or not. I thought before this happened he was going to play next year but if this is a serious injury then the odds of him retire increase.
by Braves24 on Aug 11, 2010 11:01 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Have you actually torn your ACL before? It hurts until you get it fixed. It makes doing things like walking down the stairs extemely tough.
Granted I’m no professional athlete, but I think if it’s an ACL tear, he’s done for the season. My $.02.
-Yellow Jackets, Braves, Falcons, Hawks, and Thrashers fan!
Yes, I tore it just last year. It hurt for about 4 days – so badly that I couldn’t walk.
Then, it would just pop randomly. I had a complete tear of the ACL, and the Orthopaedic surgeon told me that I didn’t even have to have surgery – realizing of course, that the knee would always be weaker.
The worst part about tearing my ACL was the 2 weeks after the surgery – that was the real pain. Now, roughly 8 months later, my knee is almost fully healed, and I can be active again without worrying about hurting it.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree that the two weeks after surgery was the worst; laying in bed hooked up to a machine that kept your need bending. Therapy sucks too. It was a victory to be able to squat like a catcher 8 months later though, and I’m glad I did it.
-Yellow Jackets, Braves, Falcons, Hawks, and Thrashers fan!
Dittos. I was never even tempted by the “no surgery” option. I wanted that sucker fixed as soon as possible.
It is kinda ironic that my right knee (the one that had the ACL tear) is now stronger than my left knee – simply because of the graft.
Heck, I may just tell them to give me a new ACL in my left knee too! :)
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I had a cadaver graft put in – reinforced with some of my hamstring (that I didn’t know about until after the proceedure). The doc folded over itself 2 or 3 times, so my right knee is pretty much like Mike Tyson right now – inpwegnable.
On a side note, the only thing that bothers me still from the entire thing is that the inside of my thigh is still numb and tender from losing part of my hammy.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t have the cadaver option, the only options the doc gave me were hammy or patella tendon. He told me the patella tendon option was stronger, but took longer to heal. My knee has been solid for 7 years now; only issue is soreness from missing part of my patella tendon.
-Yellow Jackets, Braves, Falcons, Hawks, and Thrashers fan!
I thought about it a little more, and you were right. After a few days when the swelling subsided, it no longer hurt. It did suck to try and go up/down stairs though. It’s been 7 years for me though, so it’s all a blur : )
-Yellow Jackets, Braves, Falcons, Hawks, and Thrashers fan!
Yeah. My knee wasn’t as good as new by any stretch of the imagination, but as long as I had a compression brace, I couldn’t do any more damage to it, and i was able to continue to play basketball and softball – granted, i was much more ginger with the knee, but I think a ginger Chipper is still better than anything else we could throw out there.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
A ginger Chipper...
isn’t that what we’ve pretty much had the last three years?
by hailtogeorgia on Aug 11, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d say he was more “fragile” than “ginger” but I see your point.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I've known athletes with a complete tear...
walking on it pain free within hours. I guess it depends on the injury itself, and the person to a large extent.
by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 11, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Jamal Lewis played an entire football game – as a running back – after tearing both ligaments in his knee.
Of course he’s a freak of nature, but still.
and steroids, HGH and Demirol
had nothing to do with that.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Aug 11, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I have no idea if this is feasible, but Freeman is a right-handed thrower, and is a good to great glove at first. I realize he has never played there before, but anyone think Freeman can fake it for a month and a half at third?
No
Sorry, but it’s not that simple to move from 1st to 3rd.
It’s easy to move from 3rd to 1st, but not the other way.
Actually, Freeman played 3rd in high school and for a short time with the Braves after he signed. He does have a strong arm from what I have seen of him in person.
let him try it
In the minors first. I want to see that he can still do it before he gets brought up to the bigs.
eek
That throw from third to first is a different animal. I wouldn’t be willing to risk a division championship on that. Maybe if we were out of the race, but not at this point.
by Norman Johnson on Aug 11, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I know it’s not optimal, but I think that’s a risk I’d rather take than having Conrad over there on a full-time basis.
by eaheckman10 on Aug 11, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Horrible
Just a terrible thing to happen to both Chipper and the Braves. He has been anchoring our offense recently, and looked to be heating up. He also provides much-needed leadership.
Glaus to 3B? Umm, no.
Infante to 3rd? No bueno as well. Teams that go into the postseason have deep benches, and we need guys like Infante and Conrad coming off of the bench. We don’t need Brandon Hicks or Thurston as our bench guys.
Move Prado to 3rd? I don’t like it. I like him at 2nd.
If Chipper is out for even a month, a trade will unfortunately be necessary to win this division. The problem is that there are probably few good options, and we will have to part with a good/great prospect to get the caliber we need. Not a good situation to be in.
We’re about to see what this team has in them.
There is no choice.
We likely can’t make a trade. The Phillies have injury issues and can block a waiver claim by us. We’re just not going to get a good third baseman via trade.
Dunn
passed through waivers
i’m just saying. if we’re going to have Infante as our 3B, we need MUCH more pop in the OF.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Aug 11, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Except...
Dunn didn’t pass thru waivers.
He was claimed by more than one team, one of which got the claim. No deal was made as the Nats pulled him off the table (I assume, the bargaining period should be long over).
The Giants were one of the teams to claim him, but were denied because someone with a worse record claimed him.
-C
waiver wire
should we work from within or go after some of the notable players whos names have been mentioned such as Chone Figgins. Has anyone else heard of players names possibly available for 1st/3rd other than the softball player Adam Dunn
"You play to win the game" -Herm Edwards
What do you mean, “softball player”? Dunn is excellent on offense, and his defense at first is getting more respectable. But given that we already have a first baseman, he would not be good fit for us, particularly given his likely price.
what i meant by softball player is that he goes for power every at bat and either homers or strikes out
"You play to win the game" -Herm Edwards
by TENACIOUSDB7 on Aug 11, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
He walks too….a lot.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Which would be great
If he wasn’t timed with a sundial.
I know the theory, but I’ve never thought having a guy who runs like George Wendt at first is any major cause for celebration.
It isn’t. But a guy who is not going to make an out 40% of his ABs is plenty of cause for celebration.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 12, 2010 5:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd rather he walk than strike out
But all in all, it’s never seemed to be as much of a net plus as it’s often made out to be.
"You must be outta your damn mind!" - Burton Guster
That’s crazy talk. A power hitter who has one of the best senses of plate discipline is a MONSTER tool to have on your team.
I would take a team of Adam Dunn’s over a team of .300 hitters with no plate discipline (re: Jeff Francoeurs) any day. Think about it. 40% of the time, they don’t get out – meaning that you average about 2 baserunners per inning. That is 18 base runners per game.
That is a ton of freakin scoring chances.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 12, 2010 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm cool with OBP.
I’ve really enjoyed seeing this year’s Braves develop some discipline and work the count. That’s good in every possible way. I didn’t word that well and it almost looks like I’m saying a walk is only marginally better than a K, which would be not only crazy, but kind of stupid.
What I’m skeptical of is the slavish love for three true outcome guys, which seems to be doled out regardless of what the guy brings to the table in athletic ability or baseball skills, outside of plate discipline and power.
All I’m really saying is that if someone puts a ball in the gap when Dunn’s on first, it’s not quite as sure a thing as it would be for most people.
"You must be outta your damn mind!" - Burton Guster
by Sam Jethroe on Aug 13, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
The answer is pretty clear -- if Prado comes back soon
Infante just slides over to 3rd. Done. There is a silver lining to this which says that Infante gets to continue starting. He can still spell other players with Brooksy taking over at 3rd when necessary, but Infante needs to be in the starting lineup as much as possible. Every time someone goes out and he gets starting time, he has consistently raked.
I’d rather keep Infante on the bench for his versatility, and give Conrad the shot at playing everyday.
If that fails after 2 weeks, give the job to Infante like you said.
Why not let Infante play everyday, and if someone needs a breather, put Brooks at 3rd and slide Infante around? I don’t understand this versatility argument
by eaheckman10 on Aug 11, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
How can you not understand versatility?
You need a guy on your bench, so if someone gets hurt, you can put someone else in the hurt player’s spot and you can still have that versitile on the bench that can play that position.
Duh.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Assuming Infante isn't hurt
His versatility will play at third base, too (once Prado is back). If someone gets hurt, you could slide Infante into their position and insert Brooks Conrad at third, or whoever else happens to be on the bench.
I was completely being sarcastic.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
Infante needs to come off of the bench for pinch hitting or for players injured during a game. He can also give someone like Prado a rest without affecting our offensive production much.
Why would we want Infante pinch hitting?
When we can have him bat 4 times a game starting?
by eaheckman10 on Aug 11, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I understand your point and partially agree with you. The problem is that championship teams have great players coming off of their bench…guys like Infante.
Believe me, I have NO problem seeing him in our lineup. I just want a team deep enough to have him coming off of the bench.
I want a team that deep too. The problem is, with injuries, we don’t right now. And the idea of “saving” one of our best players for the bench because he is versatile is not the best way to win.
by eaheckman10 on Aug 11, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Unless we add a piece, the Infante v Conrad everyday argument should not be up for debate. Infante will be the starter and Conrad will do what he does best, hit bombs after the 6th inning.
by CharlotteChop on Aug 11, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
The point of having a deep bench is so you can afford to lose a player or two – not so you can pinch-hit late in a game.
Besides, I’d argue that Conrad is one of the better pinch hitters in the league this season. As a starter, his value drops dramatically. Infante, however, can at least give us league average production in a starting role.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
This...
I’d rather start Infante and save Brooksy for PH magic.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Aug 11, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Is it average production though, Justin?
I’ve said it before, but I’ll reiterate it. I love his batting average, but his run production is nowhere near Chipper’s. I’m not him to produce at the same clip as Chipper, but I would like to see someone on the corner who hits for power.
I will add, though, that maybe I’m selling Infante short. Maybe his lack of run production is more closely related to the situations in which he’s been placed, as opposed to his hitting itself. I know he’s been in the leadoff spot some while Prado has been out, which is going to lower his numbers a bit, but to me, it just seems that for the frequency at which he’s been playing, if he were truly the run producer we need him to be right now (to fill in for Chip), it would bear itself out in the numbers already. Am I wrong? (and that’s a serious question, no sarcasm).
by hailtogeorgia on Aug 11, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t believe that Infante is an every day player. That being said, he is a 10-fold better option than Conrad, or anyone else currently in the organization.
If you are looking for power, just slide Hinske over to 3rd. He would be a much better offensive option than Conrad – but a much worse defensive one.
Either way you look at it, short of trading for someone like Zimmerman or David Wright, we are not going to get anyone to produce like Chipper does.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
With the way Hinske's been struggling the past couple of months,
I’m not sure about him either. It’s times like these that I find myself extremely happy that I’m not in Frank Wren’s shoes. I’m sure he’s looking for someone who can produce better than Infante (but certainly not as well as Chipper), but that’s going to be a tough find.
by hailtogeorgia on Aug 11, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with your point, but I also think that a deep bench IS important so you can pinch hit late in a game. When you are in the 11th inning of an NLCS game, having someone like Infante coming off of the big is a huge advantage.
Don’t get me wrong; Conrad is great too. I just would like to have a deep enough team where Infante isn’t an everyday starter. That’s not possible right now, understandably.
Anything to break up the ss/2B duo there now
It is just embarrassing at this point. I know it is mostly A-Gon’s fault but something needs to change.
by Norman Johnson on Aug 11, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Although Prado is eligible to come off the DL Monday, word is that he will need more than the minimum to be game ready again. So this solution may take a little too long with the Phillies playing like they are.
Both teams are 6-4 over there last 10. I will take that ratio for the last 50 or so games.
by CharlotteChop on Aug 11, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
assumming...
That we can continue playing at the same level without Chipper. History shows that when he is not in the lineup we aren’t as productive, even if he isn’t contriubting offensively.
Where's Bill Pecota when you need him?
He of one of the worst baseball cards of all time…Nice swing…Hit the ball next time!
by Jman781 on Aug 11, 2010 10:26 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
LOL
I fed a fish to a pelican and Frisco bay and he tried to eat my cell phone he ran away
by TradeAndruw on Aug 11, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
The '91 Fleer set
Had a photo editor with a badly out of whack Cool-O-Meter. Look at Glavine’s card sometime. He looks like the old dancing guy in the Six Flags commercials.
I have an idea
How about we trade Brandon Hicks, Kyle Farnsworth, and Cash for Longoria?
Dude, TB is in Florida!
I think that they’d rather Tango.
What is both surprising and delightful is that spectators are allowed, and even expected, to join in the vocal part of the game.... There is no reason why the field should not try to put the batsman off his stroke at the critical moment by neatly timed disparagements of his wife's fidelity and his mother's respectability. ~George Bernard Shaw
Jurrjens/Teheran/lower prospects for Longoria. I doubt TB would even answer though.
Kawakami - 1, Halladay - 0
I think if the opportunity presented itself
Wren would consider it. It would still leave Hanson/Minor/Medlen/Delgado/Vizcaino for a future rotation. We’ve got Hudson and Lowe to hold down the other rotation spots until the younger guys are ready.
Kawakami - 1, Halladay - 0
As great as Longoria is, I would not sacrifice two of our future five starters for him. Granted, he’s no J.D. Drew, but every time Wainwright pitches, I throw up in my mouth a little.
Tampa wouldn't think about doing that deal
I would do it though. Longoria is one of the few players I would trade for and include Teheran in the package
by Braves24 on Aug 11, 2010 11:12 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Exactly
He’s the face of the TB franchise right now. It’d be especially tough to convince TB fans that trading Longoria is a good idea, even for two top of the line of the starters.
Kawakami - 1, Halladay - 0
No change TB would do the deal, period.
They have as much pitching depth as we do. They don’t have Longoria’s all over the place. Longoria has a team friendly contract. Hell, they probably wouldn’t even trade Longoria for Heyward. (Hell, per fangraphs, Heyward is the second most valuable trading commodity in baseball, but Longoria is first.)
you're wrong
they move Brignac to 3B, Zobrist to SS (with Bartlett) and bring up Jennings for RF and then they have 2 stud YOUNG, controllable pitchers along with Hellickson and Price. They can trade Garza and Shields in the off season for positional player depth (Garza to the Brewers for Gamel and A. Escobar) and (Shields to CWS for Dayan Viciendo and Tyler Flowers) and they can go out with:
Price
Hellickson
JJ
Davis
Neimann
and they have Teheran in the minors with M. Moore. Tampa would, honestly, be dumb not to do that. Pitching wins. and they’d have TONS of it.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Aug 11, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I watch a lot of Durham Bulls games
and I haven’t “got” the Jennings hype. total headcase, inconsistent effort, and doesn’t seem to have a lot power (right now, anyway). He’s not ready yet.
"Voetbal is pas totaal als je wint"- Coach Adun
"The greatest sin is to spurn the gift"- Coach Alistair
I know
There’s no chance in hell this deal could be completed over waivers.
Kawakami - 1, Halladay - 0
I’m sure Infante will move to 3rd when Prado comes back from the DL. Brooks will start at 3rd until then and Diory will back them up. I see them bringing Hicks back up (or possibly Timmons who can play 2B, 3B, 1B and SS (in a pinch)). I think Timmons is the best option as he has a great eye at the plate, does not strike out much, has plus speed, good in the field at multiple positions, and hits for average. Even if he is on the bench in Atlanta he’s a good option on the bench and IMHO a better option than Hicks.
Todays lineup
Infante – 2B
Cabrera – RF
Gonzalez – SS
Diaz – LF
Glaus – 1B
Ross – C
Conrad – 3B
Ankiel – CF
Hanson – P
ugly much?
Kawakami - 1, Halladay - 0
so what?
B Mac can hit lefties.
Wait - Kelly Johnson hits lefties better than righties? That just HAS to be backwards. - Bobby Cox as he looks at KJ's splits for his career
by Jareth Cutestory on Aug 11, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
How bout just a day of rest...
Ross works fine, and there isn’t much drop off between them. Let’s not go pushing Heap to injury too.
by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 11, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
he rested 3 days ago!
he’s a big boy. i’m sure he can play another day in a climate-controlled environment before an off-day.
Wait - Kelly Johnson hits lefties better than righties? That just HAS to be backwards. - Bobby Cox as he looks at KJ's splits for his career
by Jareth Cutestory on Aug 11, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
He can hit them – but as he’s proven this year, not that well. So give him a rest against a left hander during a day game after a night so he’s ready to rake at home. So what if he last sat on Sunday.
by CharlotteChop on Aug 11, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Another day wouldn't hurt...
although the best answer would have been, “What’s this day of rest shit? What’s this bullshit? I don’t fuckin’ care! It don’t matter to Jesus. But you’re not foolin’ me, man. You might fool the fucks in the league office, but you don’t fool Jesus. This bush league psyche-out stuff. Laughable, man – ha ha! I would have fucked you in the ass Saturday. I fuck you in the ass next Wednesday instead. Wooo! You got a date Wednesday, baby!”
by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 11, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Well...
It worked on Sunday…Plus, in that stadium, guys like Melky, Conrad, Ross, etc. are HR machines!
Are we talking...
about him getting an inside-the-park homer when one of his chops into the artificial turf goes all the way to the wall?
by HalleyGator on Aug 11, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
if this lineup beat Giants why not agains Astros
this lineup is immune to RISP and LOBs
with McCann and Heyward
on my fantasy team…and being in 3rd place, i’m sure i’m getting to 4th tonight.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Aug 11, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Shit, that ain't so bad.
I have McCann, Heyward, Chipper, and Prado on my main fantasy team. Not pretty the last little bit.
That is about as bad a lineup as we have trotted out over the past few seasons – hopefully it will work like it did on Sunday!
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Thoughts and prayers continue for Chipper.
I’m hopeful it’s not as bad as feared and will be remedied with some rest and only 1 stint on the DL.
"Curve: The loveliest distance between two points." ~ Mae West
this
the most sane comment on the thread :)
i have a feeling chipper will be back sooner than later
Wait - Kelly Johnson hits lefties better than righties? That just HAS to be backwards. - Bobby Cox as he looks at KJ's splits for his career
by Jareth Cutestory on Aug 11, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
It seems obvious he's going on the DL...
so do they call up Hicks today? If they wait until Friday to make a move, I’ll be interested to see if that’s a sign they are considering a move from outside the organization. I’d assume if Chipper has an MRI today, what the results are (if they come back today), would go a long way in what options they’d consider.
by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 11, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Chipper's MRI will be done...
…on Thursday when he is back in Atlanta with his doctor.
I was on the verge of tears when Chipper went down...
And no, I will not submit my man card for admitting that!
likewise
Wait - Kelly Johnson hits lefties better than righties? That just HAS to be backwards. - Bobby Cox as he looks at KJ's splits for his career
by Jareth Cutestory on Aug 11, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I was as well...
…but I get to cry all I want cause I’m a girl.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
This guy would like a word with you...
Don’t worry. He doesn’t get violent if you leave Britney alone.
What is both surprising and delightful is that spectators are allowed, and even expected, to join in the vocal part of the game.... There is no reason why the field should not try to put the batsman off his stroke at the critical moment by neatly timed disparagements of his wife's fidelity and his mother's respectability. ~George Bernard Shaw
What a creep. I made the mistake of watching some of his other crappy videos.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 12, 2010 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Ewing Effect
Okay, now hear me out, those of you who are familiar with Bill Simmons’s Ewing Effect. (Short definition: marquee player goes down, team does better). I’m also aware of Chipper’s bat heating up as of late, and how much this does to the team and its fans on an emotional level as well, but not going to deny these thoughts that cropped into my head last night when I turned on the telly, and saw all players crowded over a guy on the ground, knowing without confirmation that it was probably Chipper.
The likelihood of finding someone to replace Chipper’s production and OBP are very minimal, but that doesn’t mean that the Braves are screwed for the rest of the season, and have to take an automatic, simulated out or GIDP every time the line up reaches #3. Also, the likelihood of the emergence of a 2005 Andruw Jones in the wake of the aforementioned sliding injury in San Fran (see CharlotteChop’s comment) doesn’t seem very likely either. But I guess what I’m trying to say is that yes, it sucks that we’re losing Chipper at this time in the season, but instead of staring at the end of the train tracks at the edge of the cliff, start looking at the possibilities that could arise from this.
As much as I’d hope Bobby will use this opportunity to adjust the lineup, I’m sure we’ll see a lot of Omar Infante or Alex Gonzalez batting third with Matt Diaz batting cleanup, and other head-scratching, yet no less humorous lineups, but off the top of my head, I was looking for some 1-2-3 tandems of Omar-Heyward-Prado, or Prado-Omar-Heyward, that is when Prado returns.
Basically, we haven’t seen a single game yet to know what is going to happen, and as much as I love Chipper, and wish for the best and that he returns well rested and ready to rake, I still have faith that this team, even without an Andruw and its propensity to feast upon the LOBster, might just be able to hold down the fort, until actual results arrive. Look at the 2005 White Sox, who lost Frank Thomas, but still won it all; thankfully Chipper’s got his ring as an actual contributor to the 1995 squad, but I don’t think he’s really going to mind riding the DL en route to his second if all goes well.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
The Phillies have been awesome
since Ryan Howard went down. That’s the best Ewing Theory scenario this year.
I don’t think Chipper is a good Ewing Theory candidate, but if it does turn out that way, I’d be overjoyed, since it’d mean we keep winning.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Aug 11, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
The Phillies have played great no matter who they've lost
They’ve spent significant time without Rollins, and they’re currently without Utley, Victorino, and Howard, and they’re still winning. I can’t really peg which one is the Ewing right now.
No disrespect to Chipper, but I think he’s as good of an Ewing candidate if there ever was one; I love the guy to death, but he’s pretty much just like the test of the Ewing Effect when Patrick Ewing himself went down for the Knicks in the late 90s. Both were having sub-par seasons, simply due to age and natural degradation, but the offenses still leaned heavily upon them; Ewing starting every game at center, Chipper always batting 3rd, and not always to the best results.
But yeah, all we can really do is hope for the best in this case, and I’d rather see Chipper end the season like he ended the batting race in 2008, instead of ending his career on the DL.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
I remember that game
The one with the ridiculous incident between Tavarez and Victorino.
by dutchschultz on Aug 11, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
They sucked for a while after losing Utley, though.
Phils without Rollins: 16-12, 9-17 (25-29 total)
Phils without Utley: 22-16 (14-12 without Utley but with Victorino, Howard)
Phils without Victorino: 8-4
Phils without Howard: 5-2
Also, our offense hardly revolves around Chipper. In fact, he’s probably the fourth-most important player, behind Prado, Heyward, and McCann for sure. You can’t be a Ewing Theory candidate if you’re the 4th-most important player. You also have to be overrated, which Chipper is not at this point in his career.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Aug 11, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think Chipper could have EVER been considered “overrated” at any point during his career. If anything, he has been underrated – way underrated.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
Skip said something like that a few years ago. He said we all take Larry for granted and his excellence becomes routine and expected when you see it day after day. Then one day, you look up and see that he’s a HOF lock.
I see it differently
Although I agree with the notion that Chipper is the 4th most important player, the simple fact that Bobby continuously plugs him into the #3 spot in the order shows that he obviously feels differently than we do. That’s supposed to be the spot that’s relied upon to get our Omars, Prados, and Heywards home if they can get on base, and I just don’t see Chipper as the same reliability as he was just two years ago.
The fact that Chipper has now been forcibly been removed from the equation could potentially be a blessing in disguise, because now one of three more important players might now get a shot to be put in that high-responsibility spot alternatively.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Agree somewhat
I wrote my post before I saw this one
"Voetbal is pas totaal als je wint"- Coach Adun
"The greatest sin is to spurn the gift"- Coach Alistair
haha, not a chance.
You know we’re just going to see Alex Gonzalez hitting third for the rest of the year, right?
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Aug 11, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
haha with tears in my eyes
I’m trying not to remind myself of that likely reality.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Someone talk me into putting this pistol back on the nightstand.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
POWAH
He has it. I would like to see him take more pitches, however. .259/20/58/.789, .302 OBP. His OBP should go up if they move him up in the order. It would mean that Heyward would see a lot more good pitches, I think. Most importantly, are there other hitters who belong there in the Braves’ lineup?
"Voetbal is pas totaal als je wint"- Coach Adun
"The greatest sin is to spurn the gift"- Coach Alistair
If it were solely up to me
Martin Prado, or Jason Heyward, in that order.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
1. Infante
2. Prado
3. Heyward
4. Glaus
5. McCann
6. Diaz
7. Ankiel
8. Gonzalez
That is about as good a lineup as we can hope for right now.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't like Infante leadoff,
but other than that I like it. Of course, if Omar doesn’t lead off and we want to have Prado and Heyward 2-3, I have no idea who will do hit first. So I guess that’s the best possible alignment.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Aug 11, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Heyward=rookie (way above average, but still true)
what’s his average pitches seen per AB? If it’s below 4, he shouldn’t bat third of fourth. I think Gonzo at 6 might be good- he needs to hit in a power spot
"Voetbal is pas totaal als je wint"- Coach Adun
"The greatest sin is to spurn the gift"- Coach Alistair
Seriously?
Heyward is 9th in the NL in P/PA at 4.15. We’ve been talking all year about how he takes so many pitches. Did you not notice?
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Aug 11, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
He's fine then- he bucks the rookie trend of less pitches taken and relatively poor plate discipline
I can notice all I want, but what I believe and what the stats are diverge a fair amount, and that 4.15 is respectable.
I have some problems with his tendency to extend his potential hit zone too far off the plate (his “book” was to go inside, but they haven’t been pitching him there lately). He’s gotten some good hits the other way, but he’s also looked kind of foolish on a few occasions. This is a minor quibble- he shows good plate discipline and has the blend of power and speed you want in a 3.
"Voetbal is pas totaal als je wint"- Coach Adun
"The greatest sin is to spurn the gift"- Coach Alistair
Maturity is all that mattters
I think the fear of putting rookies in 3-4 spots in the lineup solely based on them being rookies is dated, and irrelevant. Maturity and plate approach can overcome a lack of experience if given to the right players. Ryan Zimmerman has been batting 3rd since his rookie season (age 21), and turned in quite a great debut (RoY-2, behind Hanley Ramirez).
If there’s any “kid” ready for the 3rd spot in the lineup today, it’s Jason Heyward.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Yep
Posey and Santana were batting 4th and 3rd, respectively. Posey still is, Santana, well…but it hasn’t hurt them at all batting there.
by kswissreject on Aug 11, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't forget
To move Matt Diaz into the CLEANUP spot against LHP’s.
lol, every time.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Hahaha.
That dude needs to tell everyone his secret.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Duh
Read Ted Williams’s Science of Hitting before every season.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
lol
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem with that theory...
…is that even if Chipper is the fourth most important, Heyward is day to day and Prado is already on the DL. That’s not good. See our lineup from today.
Heyward
was probably just hungover. He looked fine on Monday, and the knee injury just sounds like a “give the kid who turned 21 last night and hit a homer a break” excuse.
I don't think the Ewing Effect can apply in baseball, regardless
Basketball is different from baseball, since you have five players on offense at any given time and only basketball. There’s actually some reasonable for why the Ewing Effect existed. When he was playing, his team tended to rely on getting him the ball in the post in order to get their shots. They were forced to adjust their offensive game plan without him playing, and it generally involved more ball movement around the perimeter and creating open looks for threes. They had guys on their bench like Marcus Camby who could make up for a great deal of the defensive impact of losing Ewing. It doesn’t make a ton of sense (why wouldn’t they just carry over those ball movement concepts to having Ewing in the line-up?) but there’s at least a reasonable basis to be made.
In baseball, there’s no way to change your gameplan, so to speak. In any given game, you’re doing your best to get hits, regardless. You can’t “step up” unless you were just slacking off before that. The only thing that happens is that your best hitters get fewer at-bats. The only thing that might be marginally beneficial is getting someone on the field who might be a better defensive player than the man who went down.
This is sacrilege, but...
Having someone else bat third might be good for the team (batting order influences things like how many pitches we see, RISP, and so on if they can’t pitch round a batter), thus giving us a little bit of a Ewing Bump…
NB: I could say with absolute certainty before the all-star break that Chipper shouldn’t be in the third spot of the order (His VORP for a three hole hitter was… poor, anecdotally negative actually). After the last couple of series, I can’t say that anymore.
"Voetbal is pas totaal als je wint"- Coach Adun
"The greatest sin is to spurn the gift"- Coach Alistair
I disagree
The basis behind the theory is simply the fact that a “star player” is removed from a team, and that team does better afterward. It has nothing to do with the way the sports are played, statistics, or any quantifiable measure, but for whatever intangible reason, when a marquee player is taken out of the equation, the rest of the team subsequently does better.
Simmons himself used examples in other sports, such as Tennessee’s football success immediately after Peyton Manning left, and the Mariners, after losing Grffiey and A-Rod struck gold with Ichiro, and won a record-tying 116 games.
The concept of “stepping up” mostly has to do with simply figuring something out. When I first saw Martin Prado in 2006, I never would have imagined him to be Mr. Automatic come today. Sometimes it’s a crucial adjustment, sometimes it’s as simple advice (Anyone notice Prado’s emergence happened after the acquisition of Omar Infante?), and sometimes, guys just need a chance.
Anyone on a 25-man roster is on that 25-man roster because they have some potential, and some reason to be there. I’d like to believe that the organizations have scouts good enough to be picking the right guys for the 25-man rosters. Diory Hernandez hasn’t really impressed anyone at the major league level, but he’s on the roster now as I type. Who’s to say that he won’t miraculously figure something out, and then go on a nice little tear?
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Anyone on a 25-man roster is on that 25-man roster because they have some potential, and some reason to be there.
If the reason that they’re on the roster is because not one, but two starting infielders are injured, it’s probably not reasonable to assume they’ll be very good.
As much as I want to say it
It’s not really valid in this day and age, with service clocks and arbitration years, so I can’t really believe it either.
But sometimes I like to look at it at the perspective that no matter what you, or I, or gondeee or anyone else thinks that “someone isn’t very good,” these players are still playing professional baseball as an occupation because they’re actually quite good at the game of baseball. If you look at the typical process what a player endures in their careers, some might think it’s not fair, but most everyone would agree that it’s really, really difficult to get through. If you’re not prospected to be a certain player, you might not get through. If you make it to the bigs, and then kind of fizzle out, you’re pretty much going to be relegated to AAAA or be viewed as some sort of utility guy, or risk reinventing yourself.
The bench guys are given such small windows of opportunity to prove something, all while people are saying that they’re not very good, or that it won’t last, or other metaphorical uphills placed in their paths. And most of the times, they don’t have long to prove their worth or make necessary adjustments or what not, and they’re placed back on the bench of optioned back to AAA. But in those rare times, a Martin Prado comes out of it.
As I said above, seeing him in 2006 and 2007, Martin Prado was to me what Diory Hernandez is to a lot of people here today. A slap hitter who couldn’t get the ball out of the infield, and was more useful for his defense than bat (Except when he made it stand upright after hitting a foul ball, scaring the living crap out of Keith Hernandez). But he also only got 111 PAs in that stretch, but then whenever Kelly Johnson went down in 2008, Prado showed a ton of talent, and then we all remember the verbal wars between Johnson vs. Prado all throughout last year.
The reality is that Diory Hernandez, or Joe Thurston, or Wes Timmons aren’t going to be stealing any shows lately, but with some creative lineup adjustments (which probably won’t be made thanks to Bobby), it’s not impossible for any one of them to simply hold the fort down and not be automatic outs, a one-in-a-million chance that they figure it out and actually produce, or do what everyone thinks they’re going to do; stink, absorb verbal abuse, and then go back to AAA dejected. Until the org. figures out what they’re going to do about life post-Chipper.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
how reasonable would it have been to assume Brooks Conrad (the 25th man on the ML roster coming out of spring training) would do what he’s done this season, with very limited opprtunities that he has had?
I’m with my man Roy on the unpredictability of these situations and intangible non-quantifiables.
In a worst case scenarion would hope the Braves would give Timmons a shot.. He is a AAAA vet, very good defensively at 3B as well as other positions if needed, and would likely give us a .350+ obp.
Hahahahahahahahahaha. Nice.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
This is when
Bobby Cox needs to pull off his magic “we’re the Braves and we keep winning no matter who gets hurt” trick. That’s what makes him Bobby Cox. We’ve suffered from more injuries than this and still won the division.
If Glaus can step up his production (it seems like he might be…) and Heyward’s leg issues aren’t too bad, we might be able to limp by with Conrad at 3B until Martin gets back. Once we get Martin back, I think we’ll be fine. We just have to keep from losing ground until then.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Aug 11, 2010 11:21 AM EDT reply actions
I think
the most logical would be to move Infante or Prado to 3B when Prado gets back. Then call up someone like Jo Thurston to replace Infante on the bench. That way we still have a pretty versatile bench.
please someone verify this for me...
a poster on bravesjournal just said that the braves have dl’d chipper, called freeman up, and MOVED GLAUS TO 3RD!
Smelky is not a good player. Noone can convince me otherwise.
If so
Tim Hudson just had a heart attack. So much for being a ground-ball pitcher.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Aug 11, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
But Gonzalez is soooo good that he can easily cover some of 3B…
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I like Gonzalez's D as much as anyone.
But I agree, not even Ozzie Smith was good enough to make up for Troy’s inch-wide range.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Aug 11, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Have you seen the latest Elias rankings on MLBTR?
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
briefly, why?
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Aug 11, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Meh…this isn’t really the time or place. Just look at the AL 2B/3B/SS rankings – scroll about 5 or 6 names down…
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Trust me….I know….
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
F**k Yunel
Please Justin become a blue jays fan and let them enjoy your rankings and statistics about nothing. Seriously noone gives a shit about Yunel or KJ anymore, why should they. THEY DONT PLAY ON OUR TEAM!!!
Quite a few people care about players who aren’t Braves.
In fact, there is a whole damn thread dedicated to the topic.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
not the way you bring it up
what are you trying to prove here? We lost chipper and someone mentions gonzos name and you immediately jump to yunel. Great post, thanks…i really needed to know about what the frosted cuban is doing. We dont have anything else to talk about.
I never said one thing about Yunel.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Just look at the AL 2B/3B/SS rankings – scroll about 5 or 6 names down…
I suppose you were referring to Alex Rodriguez instead?
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Aug 11, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I said this wasn’t the time or place, and I was just showing you something. It was an honest attempt to talk only to you without bringing up the whole thing for discussion with everyone a little less rational or level-headed.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh please.
I know you, justin. You were just trying to get everyone all riled up. Why else would you reference the godawful Elias rankings?
Besides, you can’t really talk “only to me” on a public message board.
Your position on the trade is fine, but there really wasn’t any reason to bring up Yunel, even just to me.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Aug 11, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
What, are the Elias rankings useful for some reason now?
Those things are legendarily terrible and should not be cited except in conversations about what type of FA a player should be.
Besides, we all know that trade wasn’t about getting the better player. No one is going to seriously argue that Gonzo is more talented than Yunel or anything like that. I’d suggest that you just let it go, but then I know that’s never going to happen.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Aug 11, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Never. I have found the 1 thing that you and I disagree on!
:)
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha,
now I know how everyone else feels!
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Aug 11, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Just doin mah job.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 11, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
i cant get twitter on this computer...
and there’s nothing on dob’s site or main site…probably a hoax, but it would be very weird for a hoax to appear there. most of the time those guys are well-informed.
Smelky is not a good player. Noone can convince me otherwise.
rosterbation, folks....
Nothing to see there.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
go figure as soon as chipper starts to find his swing he seriously injures himself
we have to be one of the unluckiest teams this season…
anyways i think we stick conrad in at third until martiin gets back, and then put omar at 2nd and martiiin at third
by SouthernPanther on Aug 11, 2010 11:50 AM EDT reply actions
Guys Guys I got it figured out
Just move Master Heywood over to the hot corner and problem solved. He is the man!!!!!!!!!!!
by BraveFanInTennessee on Aug 11, 2010 11:54 AM EDT reply actions
Best idea EVAR
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
______________
Nothing is worse than the end of the chip bag.
First lefty third baseman in the modern era... I like it
"Voetbal is pas totaal als je wint"- Coach Adun
"The greatest sin is to spurn the gift"- Coach Alistair
as a former shoehorned lefty 3B, I can sympathize
thank heaven for metal bats
"Voetbal is pas totaal als je wint"- Coach Adun
"The greatest sin is to spurn the gift"- Coach Alistair
Infante will play third!
Conrad will take over until Prado returns. At that time you will see Infante move to third until Chipper comes back (if he does). If he’s only out for a few weeks then they will just have to bring Hernandez up to back-up at short and second. If he’s out for the season they will have to make a trade. THIS REALLY SUCKS!!!!
I love when Raw Dog knows he's hit a homer
because he looks like he is about to start down the first base line and do a little ballet.
These 3B's Might Be Available At Bargain Prices
Kevin Kouz — Oakland isn’t going to ask for much for him. Not great average but he’s a decent power hitter and an easy decline next year.
Alberto Callaspo — Maybe traded a second time now that the Angels are really out of contention?
Pedro Feliz – Putrid offense, but we could possibly benefit from his glove.
Casey Blake?
Edwin Encarnacion – Cheap? Already established trading partner.
Callaspo
could be a great pick up. Enarnacion’s defense is horrific. Kouz could benefit from the NL.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Aug 11, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t mind seeing Kouzmanoff suiting up at third. I could stomach Callaspo there, even though he strikes me a Kotchman-type at the hot corner (decent avg, low power, slightly above average defense). I think we have better in-house options than Feliz, Blake, and E-Squared.
If Chipper wouldn’t be coming back, what would it take to get Kouzmanoff? Would he even clear waivers?
What is both surprising and delightful is that spectators are allowed, and even expected, to join in the vocal part of the game.... There is no reason why the field should not try to put the batsman off his stroke at the critical moment by neatly timed disparagements of his wife's fidelity and his mother's respectability. ~George Bernard Shaw
how can people be so fickle
why are people so down on infante. i mean really what is the difference with him and prado. before last year prado was considered a valuable utility guy off the bench but a liability in the lineup. prado took over for kj when he went down and tore the cover off everyball he hit and people was on the bandwagon. now infante does it and people complain because he isnt on the bench. he may just be a late bloomer there was a time when he was a highly reguarded prospect at which prado has never been. now dont get me wrong i like prado and am all for him keeping his starting job but my problem is with all the wishy washy comments like (we need infante on the bench because championship caliber teams have a great benches) with that bein said it is true to an extent for a guy to be on the bench all it means is that there are better players blocking him therefore when the regulars need rest or get injured they dont have a black hole in their lineup. what i cant understand is why someone would want one of the hottest hitters in the game right now on the bench. why so we can say we are so good that nevermind the guy playing third battin 230 check out the gut next to the gatorade hitting 342
by bmac#3 on Aug 11, 2010 3:24 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
i mean really what is the difference with him and prado
1. Infante is a career utility man
2. Prado has developed into the best hitter on this team
3. Infante has little power
4. Infante has a ridiculously high BABIP, even for him
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 12, 2010 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions
This should be our lineup:
Prado – 3B
Infante – 2B
Heyward – RF
Heap – C
Glaus – 1B
Hinske/Diaz – LF
Gonzalez – SS
Ankiel/Melky – CF
"Based on stereotypes that are totally untrue and I do not agree with, you would maybe-not be a very good driver..."
"Oh man am I a woman?!"
by Scott Coleman on Aug 11, 2010 3:59 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
i agree mvhs except let bmac hit 3rd
by bmac#3 on Aug 11, 2010 4:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No thanks. Heap would clog up the bases.
"Based on stereotypes that are totally untrue and I do not agree with, you would maybe-not be a very good driver..."
"Oh man am I a woman?!"
by Scott Coleman on Aug 11, 2010 11:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i agree mvhs except let bmac hit 3rd
by bmac#3 on Aug 11, 2010 4:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Infante
Gonzalez
Prado
Heap
Glaus
Heyward
Hinske/Diaz
Melky/Ankiel
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Aug 11, 2010 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Gonzalez 2nd? No way. Dude’s OBP is like .300
"Based on stereotypes that are totally untrue and I do not agree with, you would maybe-not be a very good driver..."
"Oh man am I a woman?!"
by Scott Coleman on Aug 11, 2010 11:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don’t like Heap hitting cleanup.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 12, 2010 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Well I’m sorry.
"Based on stereotypes that are totally untrue and I do not agree with, you would maybe-not be a very good driver..."
"Oh man am I a woman?!"
by Scott Coleman on Aug 12, 2010 4:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Talking Chop
Related FanShots on Talking Chop
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Roy Oswalt doesn’t need to save the Rangers, he only needs to provide insurance and depth
- James Loney: Umpires should call pitches from behind mound — and be robots with replay
- Magglio Ordonez set to retire after 15 seasons
- Barry Bonds thinks it will be ‘very sad’ if he doesn’t get into the Hall on his first try
- Chris Johnson’s glove webbing had a Spidey sense at Coors Field — for one play, at least
