Braves Will Listen To Trade Offers For Yunel Escobar
by gondeee on Jul 6, 2010 11:12 AM EDT
in Braves Trade News
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PrintFrom Jerry Crasnick at ESPN, some tweets this morning revealing some interesting insider info:
Heard today that the Braves are getting calls from some teams looking to "bottom feed'' on underachieving SS Yunel Escobar.
Braves are hesitant to move Escobar because he's only 27, is super-talented and they think he might be in for a big second half.
Atlanta also don't have an alternative at SS. (Omar Infante is not an everyday guy). It's hard trading a SS in mid-pennant race.
GM Frank Wren will listen, but they're not going to move Escobar unless they can get value in return. He sure frustrates them, though.
Ever since the Jake Peavy trade talks the Braves seem to have a love-hate relationship with Yuney. On one hand they love his defense and his bat (when he's hitting), but on the other hand they don't seem to have much tolerance for his personality. That lack of tolerance extends to some of the other players, who don't necessarily appreciate the way Yunel plays the game.
Crasnick lists all the big problems with trading Yunel, including no immediate replacement and the fact that we'd be selling low, not to mention the notion that he should turn things around at some point (we hope). If he does turn things around it would almost be like adding another bat to the Braves lineup as if we had traded for one.
The fact that so many other teams want Escobar is probably a good reason that we should keep him and hope that he turns it around. Of course, if the Braves have any inclination that he may not pull out of his funk, then perhaps it is better to unload him now while his "perceived" value is relatively high, but we would of course have to get another quality shortstop back in return.
Still, I don't know that I'd do any trade of Escobar. The Braves could potentially have a lot of infield holes next year, and creating another one is not a good strategy. None of our prospects are close to the Majors, and Brandon Hicks doesn't seem to be someone the organization has any faith in as a starter.
I say hold on to Yunel.
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Lol @ the Omar comment.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 6, 2010 11:15 AM EDT reply actions
My first thought too
Not an everyday player but good enough for the AS game.
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
"You look like you should be married to one of the San Diego Padres."
God enough reason for me.
“We were told you had to have a utility player on your team," Manuel said. "We went over a bunch of names, and I thought (Infante) was the best one on there. He can play all the infield positions and he can play all the outfield positions. And he’s hitting .300 or so."
Washington Tribune, June 29 2010 – "The stonecutters carving Stephen Strasburg’s name onto the Washington Monument have been directed to await further instructions."
Agree on now...
in the off season, the debate is different with a possible FA signing (although there doesn’t look like much on that front), or another trade bringing back a SS involving a starter.
Esco for Andrus. Do it, FW.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 6, 2010 11:20 AM EDT reply actions
The Teixeira Trade returns to haunt us...
I seem to recall one of the reasons we shipped Andrus off was because we had Escobar. It sure would be nice to have Andrus, and Feliz, right now.
Not that Wagner isn’t doing a fantastic job…but we could’ve spent his money on someone else!
by The Gentleman Masher on Jul 6, 2010 11:22 AM EDT reply actions
Yeah, but you got to remember when the Braves traded for Tex they had Renterria, Escobar, Lillibridge, and Andrus. They dealt from strength.
I mean, sure, the Rangers got a good deal in the Tex deal. Even looking back, the Braves made a deal they thought should have made them better. Texieria played well, the rest of the team didn’t. Can’t lament that.
You can lament that the FO should have seen the rest of the team...
and kept the others for either future development or other deals. We had lost Wickman as our closer, so bullpen was in flux, and our #3 starter was Chuck James. While we can’t lament Tex, we can see that team had huge holes in the pitching part, and adding a 1B wasn’t going to address those. No way we win in the post season with that staff, if we even got there in the first place. That is, and has always been, my primary beef with that trade.
Not to rehash those arguments
But I agree 100% with this argument. Was I excited when I heard of the Tex trade? Of course. But I would have been more excited about Mark Beuherelheule (sp?).
Don't kiss an ass if it's in the process of shitting on you.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
Yunel's HRs...
He hasn’t hit any yet – averages seem to dictate he’ll probably hit around .290 and hit around 10 HRs in the 2nd half, if healthy. I don’t know why we would want to trade that production in the middle of the pennant chase.
by The Gentleman Masher on Jul 6, 2010 11:23 AM EDT reply actions
past failure doesn’t dictate future success. If you flip a coin 3 times and get 3 heads, there’s still the exact same 50/50 shot you’ll get heads again.
This is true...
But past success dictates future success, and Yunel has had plenty of success in the past.
This only applies when the probabilities are independent, be careful.
The artist formerly known as someguy917.
In the case of any kind of offensive production, my statement is true. Sure, if you draw 10 hearts from a deck of cards without replacement, there will be a much lower chance of drawing a heart. This is not the case with hitting. Yunel is not likely to hit 10 homers in the 2nd half just because he hit 0 in the first half. On average, he will hit about 5-7 homers per half season.
wait a minute.............
No, wait. I was at the game last night and Esco did homer! Wait, that was batting practice.
Unless we’re blown away, we have to hold on to him until at least the offseason. I’m of the opinion that he’ll figure out the offensive stuff soon, but even if he doesn’t, his defense this year has been stellar. He’s still been a valuable player, just not as valuable as we had hoped for.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
Agree with this
There’s plenty of teams that still utilize defensive-minded, light-hitting infielders. At worst, Escobar fills that bill. At his best, he is well above the league average at his position offensively.
I don’t see any reason to get rid of a guy making near league minimum that is under team control until 2014. Any player we get to replace him will certainly cost more money and probably won’t eclipse his offensive statistics when’s he’s hitting well.
Once the offseason and arbitration hits, maybe we can revisit the notion if his numbers don’t improve in the second half. But for now, I think it would be a bit foolhardy of us to just wash our hands of a cheap but currently underachieving player that has performed pretty well in the past.
-C
I had the same feelings
Unless we get a major league shortstop plus other parts in return, we shouldn’t do it.
Twitter: @Ben_Duronio
Keep him
We already may need a 3B and 1B next year. We need to keep the middle of the infield intact. Our only real need for now is a big bat for the outfield. We are in 1st palce with what we already have.
We're set at the corners.
I dont know if youve heard of this guy, Freddie Freeman, but he’s pretty good.
The base paths belonged to me, the runner. The rules gave me the right. I always went into a bag full speed, feet first. I had sharp spikes on my shoes. If the baseman stood where he had no business to be and got hurt, that was his fault. -Ty Cobb
by Jurrjens' Surgeons on Jul 6, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Freeman will not be ready at the beginning of next year.
by Quilvio Veras on Jul 6, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree.
The base paths belonged to me, the runner. The rules gave me the right. I always went into a bag full speed, feet first. I had sharp spikes on my shoes. If the baseman stood where he had no business to be and got hurt, that was his fault. -Ty Cobb
by Jurrjens' Surgeons on Jul 6, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
So then who fills in for half a year?
As discussed last winter on Heyward, I can’t buy into that. With a starter like Hanson, it’s much easier to say he can fill a spot in the rotation (or bullpen if say Kimbrel, or Drew Storen for the Nats). There’s, you’d be 1 of 5 or 1 of 7. With a position player, it’s a very different proposition. Either you admittedly go very weak at one spot hoping they can tread water until your kid is ready to take over, or you add a legit piece and the kid is blocked until their gone.
I just don’t like the idea of expecting a position player to take a spot midseason. Pitcher, sure, but not an everyday guy.
No reason his development will be shot if he stayed an entire year in AAA. If they can resign Glaus for 1 more year, that would be perfect.
"Jason Heyward was a Greek philosopher reincarnated as a baseball player." - Don Sutton
That assumes Glaus would take a 1 yr offer...
and I wouldn’t disagree that Freeman could be best served by another year in AAA. But was more speaking on the idea of having him take over in May, June, or July. How would that work? Maybe sign Glaus, and then slide him over to 3B once Freddie is ready. But then who’s at 3B for Glaus to just knock them out of a starting job? Maybe Infante who’d go back to his super ut role, but that seems like you’re weakening one area in hopes of maybe getting it stronger later. To keep this short, I’m saying that if you are looking at a position player to take over a job mid season, even in the OF, that means you have to hope whoever is there for the first half does well enough that they aren’t a weak link, but not good enough to be a problem when they’re replaced. It’s just not an easy idea to me. A pitcher is different, a reliever can step in and help with middle releif or the 7th/8th. A starter can bump a 5th starter to the pen, or maybe another kid fails at the job before the stud takes it (like say Jojo before Hanson), or just being a pitcher one of your starter’s goes down mid year and they are then ready to step up.
I’ve rambled enough, but while a mid year call up makes sense for a P to me, it doesn’t for a position player. At least not if you’re wanting to make the playoffs.
We could get Russel Branyan or someone like that on the cheap
So what if he’s a health risk? We’re planning on calling up Freeman in June anyway.
What if he goes down before June?
or Freeman goes down? What if he stinks, or Freeman struggles? I’d just rather plan on guys who are where they are for the long haul, barring the unexpected. If Freeman is considered to need another year to develop, keep him down and find another one year stop gap (Branyan, perhaps Glaus again, among others). If they think he needs just a little more seasoning, I’d again go with keeping him down and filling the spot with the same list of full season stop gaps. If he’s ready, then let him get to it.
I’d rather not roll the dice that the veteran gets hurt right when the kid is ready, or the kid will progress as expected and be ready mid year, or what have you.
A link to this info would be appreciated.
We’re planning on calling up Freeman in June anyway.
Washington Tribune, June 29 2010 – "The stonecutters carving Stephen Strasburg’s name onto the Washington Monument have been directed to await further instructions."
I mean, it's speculative
I certainly can’t attest to the front office’s intentions. If I had interviewed Frank Wren instead of being so lazy, maybe I’d know.
What I’m saying is that I think Freeman WILL be a June call-up next year. The front office needs to decide this offseason whether Freeman is ready to start the season at first base, or if they need to fill that hole in free agency. With Freddie so close to being ready, they won’t sign anyone to a deal more than one year, and they certainly won’t spend very much on it. Whoever they sign will probably just be someone they can trust to hold it down for a few months.
It gives just a little bit of insurance in case Freddie struggles. He’ll be given a chance to make the team in spring training, but unless he’s absolutely dominant, they won’t give it to him. He’ll get some time in AAA to see how he’s doing, sort of like we did with Hanson last year. And since he’ll be down there for April regardless, they’ll just keep him down through May and wait until he’s beyond Super 2 before they call him up.
"I just had an apostrophe. Lightnin' has just struck my brain."
Think they let Eric Hinske hold down the fort at first until June? That way, they save money by not signing a FA and have someone who can move out to left when Freeman is ready…
Good idea
Washington Tribune, June 29 2010 – "The stonecutters carving Stephen Strasburg’s name onto the Washington Monument have been directed to await further instructions."
Hinske is also a free agent after this year
But yes, signing someone like Hinske who could play some LF too would be a smart move. Lyle Overbay?
Haha
Yeah, just above your comment I had realized this may be the case. But by re-signing HInske you have someone familiar with the organization who knows his role and has produced (thus far anyways). Although I don’t know what HInske’s UZR is at 1st…
Why not bring back Kotchman?...
I’d rather whoever our opening day 1B is, that we plan on having them in the lineup all year. Just not a fan of asking a Hinske, or say Craig Wilson, taking the job to start a year. Maybe that’s my problem with this idea, flashbacks of Wilson and Thorman.
Thanks
I was thinking FW had made a statement concerning FF. I thought that sounded odd, as he does not know how FF will be playing next season. I appreciate your explanation, it makes sense now , and I agree with you :)
Washington Tribune, June 29 2010 – "The stonecutters carving Stephen Strasburg’s name onto the Washington Monument have been directed to await further instructions."
I disagree as well
Freeman has been killing the ball for a while now. If it weren’t for his bad start his average would be well over .300
He’s raking right now. If he keeps it up, a complete, very good year of AAA leaves no reason to doubt he’ll be ready at the start of next year.
He’s 20. Give me another two years of Glaus. I’m fine with Freeman on the 25 man roster. We’ve had a lot of success allowing young players to come on and play in a part time capacity as a reserve and work their way into the MLB.
this
I wouldn’t say Freeman is two years away but I think he needs one more year in AAA. He’s only 20, and we don’t need to rush him. The way he is hitting right now, he might be starting next year.
Why?
Our hole is at first base and that’s his position. If you think he’s not ready for a major league starting spot, no reason to make him learn a new position and promote him anyway.
No. I’ve seen him enough live now that I can safely say Freddie is a 1B, and nothing else. You might could stick him in left for a game in an emergency, everybody-got-hurt-last-night type move, but you don’t want him out there for an extended period of time.
"I should have followed Rhyno's advice..." Mr. Sanchez 06/18/2010
if the only reason for him not to start next year is that he’s 20, then do you disagree with heyward being in the majors right now? if he’s ready, he’s ready. If he was struggling or just getting by in AAA, then I’d agree that maybe another year would be best, but he is absolutely dominating right now.
But he has put up similar numbers (until last year),...
and progressed at about the same rate until this year. Plus he’d be older than Heyward as a rookie, and probably not expected to be a key contributor like Heyward was.
I think he needs another year of seasoning in AAA. 22 is still really young, and hopefully we can re-sign Glaus, a proven veteran instead of being impatient and calling for the kids. And anytime you are starting at a corner IF spot, you are expected to be a key contributor (at least for a playoff team). Freeman is a very nice prospect, and (I believe) projects out to an above-average starter in the bigs…but he’s nowhere near the elite talent that Jason Heyward is, therefore this
if the only reason for him not to start next year is that he’s 20, then do you disagree with heyward being in the majors right now?
has no merit.
After this season, I don't know if Glaus would be agreeable to a one year deal...
maybe he’d be this winter’s Russell Branyan, but he has a much better history than Branyan (who I’d expect to stay in Seattle). If Glaus can’t get at least two years, or longer counting options/games played vesting years, provided he stays healthy through the end of the year, I’d be shocked.
still, your only argument is that he’s young. He’s proving himself to be much more than capable against older competition, just 1 level below the major leagues. He’s more than just a nice prospect. He’s one of the 3 or 4 best first baseman prospects in baseball.
Glaus will not take a one-year deal. He signed an incentive laden contract with us for one year because he was trying to regain his status as a very good first baseman. He’s getting older and will definitely be looking to cash in this offseason for a long term deal.
Well, how about this-he’s not advance enough. He’s not ready to face left handed pitchers in the bigs, his power hasn’t developed as much as we’d like (yet) and he doesn’t walk quite enough. But we’re confident that he’ll improve as a hitter with some development because he’s only 20 years old. Most 20 year olds can’t succeed at the big league level-Heyward is one of the very few exceptions in the history of the league.
this
thank you. I’m not saying I wouldn’t be thrilled if he WAS ready, and if he matures the rest of the year and impresses in ST next year and the powers that be deem he’s ready, GREAT! I just don’t think he’ll be ready at that time. As always, we’ll have to wait and see
10 HR in half a season is pretty good power and will improve next year. His .494 slugging percentage is higher than anyone currently on the major league roster except for conrad who has only seen limited playing time.
His .349 obp is a whole 15 points below what glaus is doing right now.
What stats do you base your lefty/righty splits on? His 62 ABs against lefties this year?
...in AAA
Major League, dominating lefties are the concern. I mean even J-Hey had to adjust and did so admirably, but he has struck out a lot. If you project that same learning curve to a lesser talent in Freeman, the strikeouts go way up, theoretically.
I’m not saying he’ll perform to the same level in the major leagues. He doesn’t have to. Anyone that will take a one year contract with the braves won’t be a whole lot more than replacement level. We got incredibly lucky with glaus this year. The same deal won’t fall into our laps again. If it does, it’ll be a big risk like a guy coming off an injury or something.
A good comp for freeman is brian mccann. Both drafted in the 2nd round out of high school, both lefty hitters. In the minors, mccann hit .276/.335/.464, while freddie has hit .293/.355/.460. Mccann got the call as a 21 year old from AA, where he was hitting .265/.359/.476. Freeman is currently hitting .288/.349/.494 for AAA. After mccann go the call, he went on to hit .278/.345/.400 for Atlanta. I’d take that in a heartbeat from freddie.
That does seem like a good comparison.
And let me reiterate, I’d be stoked if he was ready to start the year at 1st next year. I am just hesitant to rush him and then rely on him to produce immediately. If he can bat 7th and ease into the pool, so to speak, then I’m all for it.
Looking at the market...
I could easily see Glaus, Adam LaRoche, Carlos Pena, or Derek Lee, getting squeezed by the market with only a one year offer as the best they can get. That would be ideal in that it allows Freeman to continue developing while giving us a better option at 1B. And should one happen to go down (say Glaus with his injuries), or in the case of Pena or Lee have their skills diminish with age, then Freeman can come up if ready. But ideally, whoever is at 1B on opening day 2011 is good enough for a full season of them to help us make the playoffs.
I just think it would be tough to get anyone on a 1 year deal that’s worth our while. If one of those guys is up for it, then that would be great. However, the braves haven’t been shy about handing starting jobs to rookies in the past few years. Schafer and Heyward come to mind.
Just saying, it wouldn't be a shock to see one of those 4 squeezed...
in the market and ultimately accept a one year deal. They all deserve multiple, but with that many 1B on the market, and I don’t think many clubs will have that as a spot of need, one year may be the best they can get. Who all needs a 1B next year?
Don't forget about
Cantu,Konerko, and Berkaman. I think Konerko will get more than a one year deal though.
I can take that...
but then in that case, I’d say give him the full year in AAA while signing a better 1B to fill the spot for a year. Maybe Glaus although I doubt he doesn’t get better than one year guaranteed. Maybe Branyan although I’d assume his option is picked up in Seattle after they traded for him. That leaves who? LaRoche? He’ll want a multi-year deal. So will Victor Martinez. Maybe Jorge Cantu. Perhaps Derek Lee or Carlos Pena can’t get better than a one year deal. I’d just rather not go into the year with Hinske, or Hank Blalock, Garrett Atkins, someone like that at 1B expecting Freeman to take it over mid year allowing them to move into a bench role. If they start opening day, I’d rather they not be best suited for the bench.
Uhmm
Similiar (except for last year) includes about 1 full season of professional baseball, and a few games the year before. You’re excluding half of the available data, the most recent half, and calling it a push
No, I'm saying they are different prospects...
but both have had similar success outside of last year in AA (when Freeman had the wrist injury). He’s doing well in AAA, getting progressively better, and could easily be in a position where he’s ready for 2011. I think by next year, he’d be ready to the point where he’d do better at the plate than an Overbay or Kotchman, among other starting 1B this year in the bigs. If we go into camp with one of them and Freeman competing for 1B, I’ll take FF all day.
With Glaus at first...
…we’re learning how important it is to have an RBI-producer at this position. While Glaus kept striking our or grounding out with RISP in April, the team struggled to get runs. Once May began and Glaus got the swing, runs and wins followed quickly.
Ergo, I wouldn’t be so quick to bring FF in unless (and I agree this is too much pressure to put on any rookie) you knew he would be the run-producer we’re now relying on Glaus to be… OR… you have those runs coming from someplace else and whatever his bat produces becomes “value added”.
"I don't think there's any greater free-swinger in the game than Jeff Francoeur" - Tim McCarver, 4/17/2010
If we could trade him straight up for a big outfield bat, I think we have to listen. We’d be plugging one hole by vacating another, but omar can fill in and is a better hitter than our outfield options.
Elite defensive shortstops that can bat shouldn’t be traded for OF. It’s more difficult to find the former.
Omar Infante is a mediocre player, offensively and defensively, who shouldn’t start in any position. That’s the reason he is a backup
by Alvaro Andres Pizza Varela on Jul 6, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I cannot stand the way he plays
The game at times, especially the attitude and etc, And then sometimes he shows up and plays the best defense ever..and I’m not sold on him turning his bat around completely.. So in saying that.. I would listen to offers.. But would have to be blown away to make a move this year.
The poster formerly known as: SidKotchman
by SidGlaus on Jul 6, 2010 11:30 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I don’t like Yunel’s whining either, but his glove makes up for it.
by Alvaro Andres Pizza Varela on Jul 6, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldnt trade him
I like his bat but damn if he aint streaky as hell at the plate. He’s down now and he’ll catch fire again in the 2nd half.
But he’s likely to go just as cold for a month.
Trade him eventually but not now.
Shortstops all around the league are struggling this season
Hanley is having a good year, but still not as good as usual for him.
Furcal is hitting well, but has been hurt some.
Tulo was playing well, but is out for about two months.
Jeter is not playing up to his usual standard.
If Yunel plays solid defense, hits .280 the rest of the season, and doesn’t cause any problems with his attitude….I am happy with that. No reason to trade him this season unless he is causing problems in the clubhouse.
Braves don't sell low
This season is an anathema. He should bounce back.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
~Earl Wilson
by BeantownVol on Jul 6, 2010 11:43 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Anathema:
-to be formally set apart;
-banished, exiled, excommunicated;
-denounced, sometimes accursed; or
-a literary term.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
"Aberration"
Would fit better.
Still, considering the abuse Yunel takes around here and elsewhere in Braves Fandom…“anathema” ain’t that far off the path, either.
"Sometimes you forget, with all the nostalgia, just what a poor game manager Bobby is." - Fred Pen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk
The base paths belonged to me, the runner. The rules gave me the right. I always went into a bag full speed, feet first. I had sharp spikes on my shoes. If the baseman stood where he had no business to be and got hurt, that was his fault. -Ty Cobb
by Jurrjens' Surgeons on Jul 6, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
as the article states...
it’s just a “funk”. He’s cocky in his d-play – but it’s his youth – he’s young. His bat will warm up.
Gotta keep him.
I'm getting tired of these stories.
Is he really that big of an asshole?
This
Unless he humped FW’s wife, these stories need to stop. If FW trades Yunel, he should be fired. Unless, of course, two things happen: 1) he pulls off a major heist from the trade partner; AND 2) he makes an outstanding trade/FA signing for a SS that is =/> Yunel.
Don't kiss an ass if it's in the process of shitting on you.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
technically the SS doesnt need to be better than Yunel…the package we recieve needs to be better than Yunel…i.e. if we trade Yunel for Jerry Hairston JJ and Adrian Gonzalez (would never happen but just go with me here, for illustrative purposes)..our SS would be relatively horrible…however our 1B would be amazing…and the team would be better overall.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
You have to take in count money, service time, positions and how teams value players,
Adrian Gonzalez will be a free agent sooner than Escobar. That’s a win for the Padres.
Yunel’s has a lot of value in his defense, which is underrated when valuing players. So Gonzalez would be more expensive to retain. Win for the Padres.
It’s easier to find a elite 1B than an elite SS. Win for the Padres.
by Alvaro Andres Pizza Varela on Jul 6, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
he’s just using an example that shortstop doesn’t need to be a direct upgrade, so long as the balance of talent is positive for the braves.
And I understand. but even in that example the Braves would lose.
Players with the talent and production of Escobar at the position he plays shouldn’t be traded unless there is a significant upgrade in the same position in the farm or in return in the trade.
According to WAR the last 3 seasons there have been only 5 SS better than Escobar. WAR works with UZR. If we average UZR and DRS +/-, Escobar is the third best SS in the whole majors in the last 3 seasons.
Who are the 2 better? Hanley Ramirez and Derek Jeter.
The Yankees won’t ever trade Jeter and he is also 10 years older, so no thank you.
And Hanley? I think he won’t play SS in 2 or 3 years. He won’t age well for the position.
That leaves Elvis Andrus as the only viable SS in the majors who can do in the near future what Escobar could do the next 5 years with the glove.
The thing with Andrus is, will he bat enough to be a superstar?
by Alvaro Andres Pizza Varela on Jul 6, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t get your sarcasm kauf67.
by Alvaro Andres Pizza Varela on Jul 6, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
And Hanley? I think he won’t play SS in 2 or 3 years. He won’t age well for the position.
"Look out Atlanta. Jason Heyward is going to wow you."
-Chipper
Ramirez is a career 28 defender according to DRS +/ and -35 according to UZR.
Defensive ability declines faster than offensive ability. He will be a 3B by age 30. Or he will be a terrible fielding SS.
by Alvaro Andres Pizza Varela on Jul 6, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
it was a frieckin example…as evidenced by me saying “for illustrative purposes” i decided to forego the complez statistical analysis in favor of making a quick point
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
I
The poster formerly known as: SidKotchman
by SidGlaus on Jul 6, 2010 11:53 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
THIS x10000
He has some mental lapses but 99% of the time dude is a vacumm at shortstop. As far as being cocky, who gives a shit?!? If i was a major league SS i’d be cocky as hell. Lets not forget Yunel raked last year esp with RISP. I’d much rather have a player who was arrogant and had that kind of production rather than one who is a “good guy” but sucks and thinks the Braves should keep him regardless (i.e. Francoeur)
A lot of room in right center, if he hits one there we can dance in the streets, the 2-1....
I'm in this camp.
I don’t get the “attitude” thing. I’ve just not seen it, and I watch every play of every game. I think he’s done a few things in the past that some people don’t want to forgive or forget, and they are just looking for any facial expression they can use against him.
Also, as to this comment in the original post:
That lack of tolerance extends to some of the other players, who don’t necessarily appreciate the way Yunel plays the game
I’ve never heard that…any specifics?
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Chipper has said in the past that Yunel needs to grow up and learn how to play the game the right way (or something to that effect)
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Yea but that's part of Chip's job as elder statesman of the club
HUMAN TEAMMATE HEYWARD JASON FOR FRANCHISE MVP AFTER TAKING MATTERS INTO OWN HANDS AND REMOVING MCLOUTH NATE FROM LINEUP
pay attn to whats going on ….
the poster above me asked for specific of players condemning Yunel’s attitude…i provided said specifics…i neither condemned nor approved of Chipper’s comments. I am ambivalent towards them.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
That could be the quote that's being referenced...
…but if so, I don’t think that proves they would want Yunel to be traded. Chipper would only say something like that if he thinks it would motivate him, not to throw him under the bus.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
most players dont want someone to be traded who can help them win lots of games, Yunel fits that mold…so I agree despite Chipper’s words it’s doubtful anyone wants him traded.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Not true, unfortunately
My source – who is best friends with one of the current players (take it for what it’s worth) – says expect Yunel to be shipped out. No elaboration beyond that but reading between the lines I get the impression that he’s a major headache in the lockerroom. And it’s pretty obvious that Cox can’t stand him, which is almost unheard of.
That sounds like High School drame in the locker room
I have guys at work that I can’t stand but there good at what they do and I respect their value to our company. Hell, I’m even one of the guys that people probably don’t like but I guarantee you they won’t get rid of me because they NEED me. Same applies here. You don’t break up a major puzzle piece of a playoff contending team (mid season) unless that piece jeopardizes the internal integrity of the team itself. Yunel is a valuable piece because we have no one else that can replace him right now. People might not like him but unless he is seriously affecting the others in the clubhouse then it’s all blown out of proportion drama.
I think the implication is that his personality defects have counterbalanced what he produces on the field…or at least they soon will if he doesn’t pull out of his slump and/or makes high arbitration demands.
Many of these players don’t have the emotional maturity that we associate with other professional adults. Hence the addition by subtraction principle.
Assuming this 4th-hand account is accurate,
Cox is done managing the Braves after this season — doesn’t really matter whether he can stand Esco or not; he’s put up with him this long. What’s 80 more games?
I hate seeing the loafing on ground balls, and I REALLY hate the GIDP tendencies, but on the whole I’m more a fan of keeping Esco until a decidedly better option presents itself.
Put me down for some of this, too
I’m sick as hell of this nonsense. We’ve already got one elite shortstop we gave away for a pittance. Not interested in increasing that total.
"Sometimes you forget, with all the nostalgia, just what a poor game manager Bobby is." - Fred Pen
I don't think we should trade him now..but
Just out of curiosity, what would you demand in return for him?
The poster formerly known as: SidKotchman
by SidGlaus on Jul 6, 2010 11:49 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
A lot
although if we are hiring Fredi G, I’d love to see how he’d work with Yunel. The guy is nowhere near the problem Hanley is, so he could flourish.
Listening to offers doesn’t hurt you, but I’d rather trade unproven minor league players than a cheap major league shortstop who plays great defense and until this year had a solid bat. 3 subpar months — part of which he was injured — is not enough to make me believe Escobar has completely lost all ability to hit.
And in all honesty, you could take three or four games and show where he was looking like his former self. I’m with you on this. I listen til my ears fall off, but unless we get something good, I dont let go of him. With the possibility of Chip retiring and Glaus proving to be worthy of one last pay day, we could have serious infield problems. Best to hold on to what we’ve got for now
by thenightstallion on Jul 6, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Anybody see
At the end of the game Sunday when he grounded out in the bottom of the 9th? It seemed like he really let up to me…..but I didn’t have a great view as I was sitting in the outfield that day.
"Look out Atlanta. Jason Heyward is going to wow you."
-Chipper
I also remember....
1 game in the Wash. series and 1 game in the Fla. series last week, that if not for the brilliant defensive plays made by Yunel the Braves would have lost those games instead of winning them.
by homerlanding on Jul 6, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
MLB players don’t always run out ground balls because they know there’s a tiny chance that the other team will mess it up and it’s not worth wasting the energy or risking an injury when you’d be out either way. It’s one thing to loaf on a play that might be close (like a grounder deep into the hole if you’re fast), but jogging out routine grounders doesn’t bother me at all.
I know this
But it’s a different situation when it’s the bottom of the 9th down one run.
"Look out Atlanta. Jason Heyward is going to wow you."
-Chipper
His defense is way too valuable
If it’s true that Omar isn’t an everyday starter (and I’m not sure that it is) then we need to receive a SS back in the trade. In that case, I can’t see why any team would want to trade another good shortstop for Yunel who isn’t producing offensively right now. We’d be getting a sub-par SS and another player in exchange. That extra player would have to be a pretty damn good starting outfielder for the trade to be worth it.
In my opinion, I’d rather keep Yunel’s double-play turning golden glove and defense, even if he doesn’t improve his current offensive problems.
by KoKo the Monkey (T-Bone) on Jul 6, 2010 12:03 PM EDT reply actions
Erm, no.
Troy is good, but he’s not better than Escobar. Elvis Andrus is really good defensively, and probably has a higher skill level, but he’s not having his best year with the glove out there.
Jack Wilson’s not playing anymore, so I don’t see anyone who’s clearly better defensively at SS than Yunel is. Maybe Cesar Izturis? I’m just not seeing where I can point out clearly that they’re better defensively at this point.
Fangraphs has Alexi Ramirez far and away the top so far....
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=ss&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=y&type=1&season=2010&month=0
With Stephen Drew pretty close to Yunel at 3rd (with Escobar 2).
You're looking at a single season for Alexei, and a partial one at that.
I started to say the same thing, but for defense, it’s recommended that you take a three year sample at least in order to compare. Alexei was just an average or worse shortstop before this season, and now he’s having a really good partial year. Yunel was really good both last year and in 2008, and he’s doing REALLY well this year.
I know that about UZR...
just not good enough to find a listing for the last 2-3 years. I’d definitely think Esco would rate highly amongst all SS the last few years. As I’ve said elsewhere, there may be two SS in all of MLB right now I’d rather have. Tulo, who’s hurt, Reyes when healthy, and Ramirez. He’sa good one, and we don’t need to move him for anything but a premium package, unless the FO feels he’s a ticking time bomb.
And one who’s hitting .290 with 22 steals and a .371 on base
"Look out Atlanta. Jason Heyward is going to wow you."
-Chipper
Andrus has a .356 BABIP
$40 bucks say that Yunel has a higher OBP by the end of the year. He has a higher walk rate and a better history of hitting for a high average. Andrus is far from an offensive upgrade-he’ll be offensively challenged every year he’s in the league.
Andrus is great because of his defense. But with Yunel gobbling up everything coming his way this year, there’s very little reason to miss Andrus. I’d say the odds of Andrus out-performing Yunel at the plate during the second half are nil. I mean, almost totally non-existent. If you’re complaining about having lost Andrus at this juncture, you’re just looking for reasons to pile on the Teixeira trade again.
in Andrus’ defense he can probably sustain a higher than average BABIP…althought even 356 might be too high..
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Oh I agree
If his BABIP drops to .320, which is well above average, his overall line drops to .261/.332/.303. Compare that to Yunel’s current line of .238/.339/.296, and is it even much of an upgrade? Not really.
Factor in that Yunel is much more likely than Andrus to 8-10 HRs over the rest of the year, and I think we’re better off with what we’ve got, especially since, as it’s been noted, Yunel is a wizard on defense this season.
Even in the minors, I can't recall an Andrus injury
and he’s been at this for a while now as a professional (including minors).
Andrus is far from an offensive upgrade-he’ll be offensively challenged every year he’s in the league.
What makes you say this? Speculation?
I expect his numbers to fall back too considering it’s his first full season in the bigs, but I anticipate him being one of the best shortstops in the majors in a few years.
"Look out Atlanta. Jason Heyward is going to wow you."
-Chipper
why would u expcet that he doesnt walk much historically, he hasnt shown much power, and he hasn’t shown the ability to hit for a high avg. Most scouts agree with Bronn’s assessment. He has potential but realistically he shouldnt be expcted to be an offensive force
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
He's also been much younger at every level he's been at...
Andrus doesn’t “project” to be much at the plate, but I don’t think they can say that for sure he won’t develop an eye and contact skills to go with his good speed. Omar Vizquel was supposed to be all glove and no bat too, but he’s got some damn good years offensively in his career.
Okay
Maybe I got a little overexcited saying he’d be one of the top SS in the majors in a few years, but I feel like with his speed if he learns to be a little bit more patient at the plate and make more contact (like Mr. Sanchez said) he has the potential to be a big time offensive threat.
"Look out Atlanta. Jason Heyward is going to wow you."
-Chipper
I would agree he could be like vizquel or maybe even slightly better…but by no stretch of the imagination is that a “big time offensive threat”…he is still really valuable with vizquel like offense bc of his…well… vizquel like defense
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
I disagree
But hey, I guess we’ll see a few years down the road. I kinda hope for my own sanity that he is mediocre, along with Neftali Feliz.
"Look out Atlanta. Jason Heyward is going to wow you."
-Chipper
Seems like another unfounded rumor to me.
I get really frustrated by Yunel’s lack of quality at-bats with RISP (seems to be in complete contrast to his RISP at-bats in 2009) but his defense would be taken for granted if a league-average SS were to fill his spot.
So, in short, no more 1st pitch GIDP plz.
I think you're confusing Yunel with Failky
HUMAN TEAMMATE HEYWARD JASON FOR FRANCHISE MVP AFTER TAKING MATTERS INTO OWN HANDS AND REMOVING MCLOUTH NATE FROM LINEUP
You would be an idiot to trade Yunel
What make you think he will continue this slump for the rest of his carrer
Roosy
What, pray tell, has McLouth done in a Braves uniform to suggest otherwise?
"Jason Heyward was a Greek philosopher reincarnated as a baseball player." - Don Sutton
Just last year (as a Brave), he posted a .257/.354/.419 line. That’s not exciting, but it’s definitely a far cry from his current line, and there’s nothing in his peripheral to suggest that he’s completely falling apart. There’s a huge decline in his HR/FB rate, which is ponderous because he’s 28 years old, and you should expect and uptick in things like ISO and HR/FB among 28 year olds-that’s the typical power peak. His plate discipline is completely identical to what he’s done in previous years where he’s had success. He’s not swinging at more pitches out of the zone, he’s not taking more pitches inside the zone, he’s hitting the same % of groundballs, flyballs, and line drives.
McLouth has useful baseball left in him. If his confidence is completely shot, it’s possible he may not regain it this year, but I’d bet we see a serious improvement on his .577 OPS before the year is over.
Even McLouth's best year wasn't 'spectacular'
Hasn’t had a year w/ an OPS above .853.
http://twitter.com/Libid21
That's pretty outstanding from a centerfielder
You can’t find too many examples that are much better than that.
Esco is still one of my favorite players.
His bat will come around (does anyone know his BABIP?). If we do trade him – and I think it’d be a stupid idea – we better get a haul in return
HUMAN TEAMMATE HEYWARD JASON FOR FRANCHISE MVP AFTER TAKING MATTERS INTO OWN HANDS AND REMOVING MCLOUTH NATE FROM LINEUP
BABIP
.273 this season
.317 last season
.311 in 08
.364 in 07
by McLouth Maniac on Jul 6, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought personally that we should have tried to trade Yunel in the off season to fill a need (LF, or 1B at the time) and then let Hicks (a great defensive SS) or someone else like Infante man the position for a year. Sure Infante is not normally an everyday player, but he’s good enough to where if we were getting great production out of LF with the trade it would off-set the lack of power we would get from short.
I think if we trade him now we will be selling low. however, if you find one team that over values him, you could possibly pick up a good player that could either slide into his spot or fill another need for the rest of the year.
Token Escobar picture.
Hicks would be beyond a problem offensively
such that his D wouldn’t come close to making up for it, ala Kotchman.
In agreement with most here.
There’s no way we can trade him during the season, as we’d require a SS back in return. Robbing Peter to pay Paul, so to speak.
It seems that, for once,
we are all in agreement that the Braves should not trade Yunel now unless we get a boatload in return. How refreshing. It’s like seeing a unicorn or something.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
No.. I think he should be traded eventually
But just not right now..unless we get a rediculous offer.
The poster formerly known as: SidKotchman
by SidGlaus on Jul 6, 2010 12:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
why should be be traded eventually…do you think he will start his decline sometime soon? Do you think we are gonna have a SS prospect emerge (by all accounts Salcedo is headed to 3B)? I’m confused by this statemtn
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Doesn't he have the same agents as Yunel?...
that could be a reason. Not a good reason, but still a reason. Then there is the “attitude” question, but for me also injuries. Seems like multiple times every year, he’s missing an extended stretch. As a player though, he is in that second tier of SS behind Hanley and Tulo (and just those two imo, unless I’m forgetting someone).
you are dead on with my thoughts.
The poster formerly known as: SidKotchman
by SidGlaus on Jul 6, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
To clarify, I wasn't saying deal him...
the only SS in the NL I’d rather have would be a healthy Jose Reyes, Tulo or Hanley, and there isn’t much, if any, in the AL I’d say are better. Just playing devil’s advocate on reasons to trade him.
i'm not saying deal him..right now..
but this off-season, i see it as a good possibility.
The poster formerly known as: SidKotchman
by SidGlaus on Jul 6, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
boston has always like him.
The poster formerly known as: SidKotchman
by SidGlaus on Jul 6, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Boston has nothing to give right now that would make us better. We need an OF BAT (Right Handed) and/or salary relief of McClouth, Diaz, Kawakami, or Lowe for 2011.
If none of the guys above are traded or non tendered (or everything stays the same) then we will still need a 1B and possibly a 3B, closer, and vet arm in pen. There is absolutely no way we trade Yunel unless they fill a whole (at no additional cost to us) or take kawakami or McClouth of our hands now. Boston is set with Scutaro so they don’t even need him.
unless we get Turcolu(can't spell it)
I’m not interested in Boston
...in dixie land i'll take my stand to root for Atlanta
Turkoglu?
Help me! Some bullies threw my shoes over a telephone wire...with me in them!!
by !Vive la Francoeur! on Jul 6, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
He looks more like a 3B/OF to me. Hopefully there’s some pop in those arms…….
"Jason Heyward was a Greek philosopher reincarnated as a baseball player." - Don Sutton
or maybe I men't Kevin Yukolis
instead of Pedroia or Turkoglu
...in dixie land i'll take my stand to root for Atlanta
post fail...
doesn’t Yunel have the same agents as Fooky? The group we said we’d never deal with again? If so, now that he’s arb eligible we’d have to deal with them.
wasserman media group.
..something just tells me their demands are going to be high.
The poster formerly known as: SidKotchman
by SidGlaus on Jul 6, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
he's 27. but acts 12 sometimes..
which i can get past as long as he produces..his glove is definitely gold..but yes I do think his bat will decline..and I do think we’ll have a good SS emerge in the next 1-2 years..this is just my humble opinion, i think were still allowed to have opinion’s in the U.S. right?
The poster formerly known as: SidKotchman
by SidGlaus on Jul 6, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Trade him if we get a ton back for him...
Otherwise don’t. Simple as that.
Politicians are like diapers. They both need changing regularly and for the same reason.
i don't get this
young, cheap shortstops with big upside don’t just grow on trees. he hasn’t performed up to expectations offensively and that’s why teams think he can be had for cheap. as they stated, we have no one to replace him with. we shouldn’t give him up unless we are getting a ridiculous return…
When I look at our roster and how we can improve the team....
SS is (a) not a concern for me (meaning I’m happy with Escobar) and (b) not a position of strength (organization-wise). I am 100% okay with trading talent if we have legitimate backups ready to go. Trading Escobar would simply open up a hole that we can’t fill. Thus, the only way to trade him is to get a SS back…Thus, it would have to be a package deal, for a team is not going to simply trade their solid SS for Escobar straight up. That doesn’t even work in fantasy baseball land…
I feel that the Braves will acquire another bat, but I think it will not involve Escobar at all…
As an aside, I am with those who are tired of the piling on over the Tex deal. There are arguments on both sides, and the debate will never end. Considering we are in first place in the NL East with slumping players and some injuries, I am happy with the team now and the future core of the team. Let’s just move on.
+1
I am with those who are tired of the piling on over the Tex deal. There are arguments on both sides, and the debate will never end.
Washington Tribune, June 29 2010 – "The stonecutters carving Stephen Strasburg’s name onto the Washington Monument have been directed to await further instructions."
Trade rumors concerning Braves are funny b/c.....
Majority of the rumors are just bunk. I don’t see the Braves trading away Yunel anytime soon (they have been trying to move this guy since 2008) considering we have no depth at SS. Also, we are not going to get that special OF player with a bat either (nor should we). The Braves need to stand pat and keep the blue chip prospect in the farm system b/c whoever they trade for will be less valuable than the prospect we will be giving up.
My 4 guys (Hudson, Hanson, Meds, JJ) can take on anybody's 4 guys (the MLB) and Victory will be ours!
BREAKING NEWZ
BRAVES TRADE ESCO FOR PUJOLS AND WAINWRIGHT AND CARPENTER
(jk)
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
the bad thing..
people would still be worried about not having a good SS..lol
The poster formerly known as: SidKotchman
by SidGlaus on Jul 6, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
98% of us would..
its that other 2% that would say OMG we have a hole at short that cracks me up.
The poster formerly known as: SidKotchman
by SidGlaus on Jul 6, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
What contender even needs a SS as the #1 need?
What contender with that need matches up in a trade (i.e. a right handed power bat that there willing to give up?)
Not happening nor should it.
Cardinals to the first part.
Don’t know to the second part.
Agreed on the third part.
I am The One Who Shall Remain Avatar-less.
that's a turrible idea...
"Sometimes I think it is a great mistake to have matter that can think and feel. It complains so. By the same token, though, I suppose that boulders and mountains and moons could be accused of being a little too phlegmatic."
-Kurt Vonnegut, "The Sirens of Titan"
by Bravely going forward on Jul 6, 2010 1:39 PM EDT reply actions
But what if you were to promote it, Chuck?
"I don't think there's any greater free-swinger in the game than Jeff Francoeur" - Tim McCarver, 4/17/2010
Despite his woes at the plate, Yunel is still playing pretty well in the field. Barring a knock the socks off offer, Wren would be silly to trade him. His bat will come around, whether it’s this summer or next season.
"Jason Heyward was a Greek philosopher reincarnated as a baseball player." - Don Sutton
It says the Tigers could be interested...
I’m always down for a deal with Detroit.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
by Scott Coleman on Jul 6, 2010 1:54 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
we always come out good with them lol
The poster formerly known as: SidKotchman
by SidGlaus on Jul 6, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Jackson has no power at all???????
He hit’s for average but come on……..Boesch has better stats across the board plus in 18 months Schafer could very easily look very similar to Jackson. I haven’t lost faith in Schafer yet.
Plus I’d rather ask for Sizemore, Boesch, and give up Melky and Yunel. Play Hicks and Diory in 2010 and In 2011 move Prado to 3B if Chipper retires and have Sizemore start at 2B.
Heyward RF
Schafer CF
Boesch LF
Freeman 1B
Sizemore 2B
Prado 3B
McCann C
????? SS
Hanson
JJ
Medlan
as your core group in 2012 with all of our studs in the farm system???? Plus the fact that we could lock up basically everyone for 5 years and still have money to spend? OMG it would be a dynasty.
Wishful thinking
Fangraphs had something on Boesch the other day...
basically, lightly regarded lefties that explode onto the scene with power are often very short lived.
Here is it...
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/colvin-and-boesch-going-forward/
The list of comparable is not good, some turned out solid, but most were quickly out of MLB:
Chris Duncan – 2006
Garrett Jones – 2009
Matt Joyce – 2008
Jay Gibbons – 2001
Andy Tracy – 2000
Jody Gerut – 2003
Mike Jacobs – 2005-2006
Chris Davis – 2008
Brad Wilkerson – 2002
Eric Hinske – 2002
Luke Scott – 2006
Chris Richard – 2000
Brian Daubach – 1999
Erubiel Durazo – 1999
Jon Nunnally – 1995
Mark Johnson – 1995
Matt Luke – 1998
Armando Rios – 1999
Eric Hinske is the best guy on that list.
Who needs Boesch when we already have his best-case scenario?
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jul 6, 2010 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think.....
The Braves are going to anything this year before the trade deadline. I think there going to let there guys come off of the DL and get back into a rhythm.
Chipper has picked it up
Yunel has been unlucky and should get it together in the second half
JJ is back and looks in good form
Heyward will be a force the remainder of the season
McClouth and Diaz are the only wild cards and if either of them do what there capable of then our team is set and also has the depth needed to make it deep in the playoffs. Can we beat the Yankees???? I’m not sure of that but we are legit contenders for the NL Championship with this team “AS IS”. A legit “consistent” bat for the OF is the only ‘true" need we have right now. Sure other things could be tweaked but we have very minimal needs and are poised for big things the next few years. Don’t jeopardize it when your already looking good.
I don’t see any available names that put us into the level of the Yankees as WS contenders either.
That being said, I would trade McLouth to KC for half-slab of ribs with that good BBQ sauce on ’em.
"Jason Heyward was a Greek philosopher reincarnated as a baseball player." - Don Sutton
Outside of Lee, I don't see what is out there that is better...
than what we already have, or at least not better than what we have is capable of when playing well.
Trading Yunel would be the most idiotic thing the Braves could do
He is the best defensive player in the majors in the second most important position in the field. He is a great batter who is having a down year.
Would the Braves trade Brian McCann just because he whines too much?
If Frank Wren trades Escobar he would surpass Dayton Moore, Ed Wade and Brian Sabean as the worst GM.
by Alvaro Andres Pizza Varela on Jul 6, 2010 2:28 PM EDT reply actions
He is a great batter
What are you smoking?
I agree with your point (WOW!) for the most part, but he is a slightly above average offensive player.
"Look out Atlanta. Jason Heyward is going to wow you."
-Chipper
I mean, he is a great batter for his position.
by Alvaro Andres Pizza Varela on Jul 6, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I just don’t see what we could get in return for him now that would take his place.I know he has gotten off to a slow start but I think he will turn it around.I know he does stuff to irritate but even with this slow start teams are calling.They are calling because they know what this kid can do.Apart from the things he does to get on Cox’s nerves he really is a better player then what some people gives him credit for.Unless the Braves can get someone of equal value or greater in return I don’ty do this deal.We just don’t have anyone to replace him right now.I agree with that above poster who posted that trade with Texas has come back to bite us in th butt.
by LakersMania on Jul 6, 2010 2:31 PM EDT reply actions
MLB Trade Rumors
The Tigers have interest in Stephen Drew, so it would be a surprise if they haven’t conisdered Escobar. The Rockies and Padres could also use help at short, though there is no evidence that either team is actively looking to add a shortstop.
I posted a fan shot of this article. It states Frank Wren’s feelings on trading Esco.
Washington Tribune, June 29 2010 – "The stonecutters carving Stephen Strasburg’s name onto the Washington Monument have been directed to await further instructions."
Don't Trade Yunel!
He is young and will learn. Don’t trade him please. Andrew Jones had attitude early on…stick with this talented young man and give him more guidence. He will get it, but he has a gift that need to be nurtured. Let Bobby work with him this last season.
Yunel
When Yunel comes up to bat I still have hope…when McLouth come to bat, I go to the bathroom, it an automatic out.
Not a crazy idea
People are posting that ‘I can get past his attitude’, but to be honest. This isn’t about us, the fans. It’s how the teammates perceive his attitude and in my opinion, Yunel has shown to be both a hothead, and drama queen, and sometimes a show-off.
Prado can be standing on the bag, and Yunel decides to take it himself, so he can throw the DP to first. Not always the best move, and kinda dissing on Prado, IMHO. Now that Prado has some sway, his interests may be more closely listened to.
Yunel is struggling pretty bad this season offensively, and his defense has been good, but the lack of RBIs is a liability right now. But I think there’s more going on than just his talent.
Dugout politics in play, and the one thing we really have going for us this season seems to be a pretty cohesive unit. Let’s not let one bad seed spoil it.
Move him.
Let me add this
The last time I saw Yunel in person, he was sitting by himself in the hotel lobby with a bucket (six bottles) of Heinekens right after a game (with another the following day). His teammates were all in the hotel bar…together.
Cohesive?
Really?
Thats quite interesting. Don’t know if it could have been the language barrier though
"Look out Atlanta. Jason Heyward is going to wow you."
-Chipper
That's possible, I suppose.
But Blanco and other spanish-speakers were milling about.
And if he just wanted some alone time…why do it smack in the middle of the lobby. That’s what you’re room is for.
Btw, I got a great photo taken with Huddie. And a baseball signed by Joe Simpson. All-around kick-ass trip!
What’s the problem with that? If he doesn’t want to be with anybody, that’s his business.
by Alvaro Andres Pizza Varela on Jul 6, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Hanley Ramirez has the reputation of a diva. And nobody could stand Barry Bonds. Yunel ain’t in that class, but unless the attitude becomes a serious problem, there is no reason to trade him.
Also, nice way to elevate Yunel’s value if they want to trade him. Venting about him to the media.
by Alvaro Andres Pizza Varela on Jul 6, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Just don't like it
What are you kidding me ??? Thinking of trading away a great piece of our infield like Escobar ? With that cannon for an arm and his ability to flag down pretty much anything it seems funny to start to discuss the ideas of trading him.
With me I like his personality, I like the bat flipping, and things that he does on the field. Only thing about Yunel is where is the offense buddy ?? Zero Homeruns and we are in the first full week of July.
C’mon maybe Yunel needs to really hit the cage and work some of these things out.
Still though I would create to many holes to trade Yunel this season. Yunel does still have a ton of upside so who knows with Wren . Wren has made nothing but pretty darn good decisions to this point including the Vasquez trade.
I wouldn’t trade him but if we would for whom we would have to great a starting SS back in return for sure and more if I am dealing with Yunel.
Why did the above post say that next year’s infield is going to have holes to fill ?
Either Freeman is ready or we resign Glaus
Prado is due for a major pay raise so Braves may opt to buyout his remaining arb. years
Yunel is having a major down year offensively but still has ton of upside and a great defender. So his paychex should remain the same.
C. Jones is gone after this year but that will free up a ton of cash to acquire power in the offseason.
So in my opinon our problems w/ infield this offseason are easily fixed.
Go braves.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Jul 6, 2010 3:16 PM EDT reply actions
The only thing I would trade Escobar for right now is a power-hitting CF or RF (if RF, move Heyward to CF), and not a 1-yr rental guy, and I’d want to unload Lowe or Kawakami.
One idea: Escobar, Melky, a good prospect (not Freeman, Teheran, or Minor), and Lowe for Vernon Wells and Alex Gonzalez.
Probably wouldn’t work.
Vernon “My contract has remaining 100 million in 5 years and I’m 32 years old” Wells?
Alex “I never take a walk even if my life depended on it” Gonzalez?
My goodness
by Alvaro Andres Pizza Varela on Jul 6, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
If you dumped Lowe, Wells isn’t much more money, he’s having a good year, and we got 6 starters and 0 CF’s right now.
Alex Gonzalez would also add pwoer, which the Braves are gonna need to do damage in the postseason. Right now I see the Braves scoring 2 runs a game in the postseason.
Wells is owed
$76M after this season. Lowe is owed $30M. Wells is owed MUCH more money. I also don’t think much of him in CF any more. UZR has him at -31.5 runs since 2008 and DRS has him at -20 in that same time frame (though he’s about average this year in both metrics).
Also, Alex Gonzalez doesn’t have that much more power than Escobar does, looking at their career numbers. If you factor in the ballparks they’ve played in, they’re probably about even.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jul 6, 2010 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
The fact that he took his highlights off
means that he’s trying to mature. Give him a chance
SWING AND A DRIVE, BELTED RIGHT…..and McCann makes the catch by the dugout.
by Hudson's Soul Patch on Jul 6, 2010 3:44 PM EDT reply actions
Yunel’s defense is hot, but his attitude while batting isn’t. At least, usually when he gets up there, he looks as if he doesn’t care that much. I don’t have anything to “prove” this, he just doesn’t look concentrated/excited like Prado, McCann, Chipper, etc. do—regardless of how they’ve been doing recently. Esco just doesn’t get into the game.
Jason Heyward is the reason that Chuck Norris parks his car in a garage.
people are saying we dont have a replacement
But last time I checked Diory Hernandez was rehabbing in AAA and close to returning to the team. While he doesn’t have the offensive ceiling that Escobar has he is just as good in the field the last time I checked.
Also the way Escobar is hitting it wouldn’t be to hard to find someone to match is slash stats.
If we get a good offer for him then by all means move him.
I personally wouldn’t mind us trying to work out something with the Cardinals. McLouth/Melky and Escobar for Ryan Ludwick and prospects.
by drumzalicious on Jul 6, 2010 4:25 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
So was Prado
I’m just sayin =^)
Btw in no way do I expect Diory to lead the league in hits next year
by drumzalicious on Jul 6, 2010 6:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
it's funny
because we could’ve done kelly johnson for ludwick straight up 2 years ago
by BravesRaleigh on Jul 6, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
At this point
in the season i dont see a trade involving Yunel as a prudent move. we will not find a better defender from any team in any league.offensively the second half of the season will see the return of a healthy Heyward, and a well rested Glaus. we can listen to proposals for him all day but i think Wren knows that we really need an outfielder and will look there before he looks to the infield
YESco is hitting 5th tonight, no BMac, Glaus and Diaz are back
Prado
Infante
Chipper
Glaus
Esco
Diaz
Ross
Blanco
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
by Scott Coleman on Jul 6, 2010 4:42 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
And Jurrjens is pitching and 9th, of course.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
by Scott Coleman on Jul 6, 2010 4:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Not that shocking considering it’s Cole Hamels on the mound. Stack the lineup with Righties.
My 4 guys (Hudson, Hanson, Meds, JJ) can take on anybody's 4 guys (the MLB) and Victory will be ours!
by romone_braves91 on Jul 6, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
That's pretty awesome
that we can stack the lineup with solid right-handed or left-handed bats depending on the pitcher on any given night. I really do love this team.
honesly
I hate the whole lineup being platooned. Can’t wait till we have a steady lineup no matter who’s pitching.
by drumzalicious on Jul 6, 2010 5:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don’t feel like we have a bunch of platoons. Mac needed a day off, so this game being against a lefty is as good a time as any. And Melky hasn’t played worth a crap lately, so he needed a day off too. Other than those guys, it’s the regular lineup.
"Chase Utley can't polish Martin's shoes right now" Joe Simpson
by sleezer1788 on Jul 6, 2010 5:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, I meant to throw that in there. Whoops.
"Chase Utley can't polish Martin's shoes right now" Joe Simpson
by sleezer1788 on Jul 6, 2010 5:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
3 words
Hells Fucking No. I love Esco and trading him is stupid. Why would we trade a possible top 5 SS in the NL? Trading him would be the wrongest move possible.
"Batting second and playing shortstop-he's Cuban. Yeah, his name's Pablo...no, eh, Yunel Escobar, sorry"
Yunel is not a “possible” top SS. He IS a top SS in not only the NL, but the whole MLB.
by Alvaro Andres Pizza Varela on Jul 6, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
No, just no. Not yet, but give it 2-3 years and he will be,
"Batting second and playing shortstop-he's Cuban. Yeah, his name's Pablo...no, eh, Yunel Escobar, sorry"
He already is the best with the glove in the majors at SS and his bat is above average for the position. That top 5 SS in the majors right now, not in 3 years.
by Alvaro Andres Pizza Varela on Jul 6, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
now see, I just can’t agree. I’ll give you his glove, but he is awfuly too inconsistent. He doesn’t hustle from time to time, and just a bit of a bonehead. Plus his forte, RISP (especially with 2 outs), he’s doing horribly in this year. I just can’t label him top 5 in the NL, let alone the majors. (nor can I btw, name people who should be above him, but that’s a different argument)
"Batting second and playing shortstop-he's Cuban. Yeah, his name's Pablo...no, eh, Yunel Escobar, sorry"
The debate over his value shouldn’t be over whether to trade him or not. It should be over how much we should give him up for. Very few players in this league are so good that no package of players is good enough for them. I’m sure these rumors will go nowhere, but I’m all for trading Yunel if we can find a servicable SS out there and it makes us better as a whole.
I don’t like his lack of hustle either, but every metric shows Yunel is one of the best with the glove. His range is incredible, his arm is strong and accurate and he makes difficult plays look routine. Could he be better? Of course.
Batting with RISP is not a skill. It’s better to analize a player according to career marks and not only how the player performs with runners on base. Yunel is having a power drought which can happen to any player "cough David Wright “cough”.
His walk rate has improved to a career high (12.9%) and he is walking more than he is striking out. That’s remarkable for any hitter. His career BABIP is 40 points higher than this season’s mark.
So when his balls in play start finding holes and the power comes back, only Hanley Ramirez and Tulo could claim to be better at the position.
by Alvaro Andres Pizza Varela on Jul 6, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Bad Idea
I was just thinking today what a boost it will be to the Braves offense when Escobar starts hitting. Maybe the Braves use this speculation to try to motivate him. I cannot imagine how you would trade Yunel given all that he can do. He plays hard, has a great arm and glove. And, up until this year he was one of our best hitters. And speaking of that, his swing seems off to me. He seems to be trying to pull the ball too much. I think he was a much better hitter when he was going toward right field more. Anyway, I think he will snap out of it and help the Braves out a lot in the second half. I think the only way I would agree with this idea is if you got a SS of similar ability in return.
just plain dumb
even if he has struggled at the plate, he’s been coming around in the past month and he’s one of the best SS in the league defensively. I just don’t understand why they’d trade him, especially now that it would be an undervalue of a trade
So...
Anybody change their mind after tonight’s game?
"Sometimes you forget, with all the nostalgia, just what a poor game manager Bobby is." - Fred Pen
freddie
is still at least a year away . He needs to prove he can do it in back to back years at the AAA .
Why?
We havent made any of our big name prospects prove anything in AAA but were gonna make him do it 3 years? That makes no sense.
The base paths belonged to me, the runner. The rules gave me the right. I always went into a bag full speed, feet first. I had sharp spikes on my shoes. If the baseman stood where he had no business to be and got hurt, that was his fault. -Ty Cobb
by Jurrjens' Surgeons on Jul 7, 2010 6:46 AM EDT up reply actions
2*
The base paths belonged to me, the runner. The rules gave me the right. I always went into a bag full speed, feet first. I had sharp spikes on my shoes. If the baseman stood where he had no business to be and got hurt, that was his fault. -Ty Cobb
by Jurrjens' Surgeons on Jul 7, 2010 6:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I watch every game. The reason Escobar has to go is that he is very dumb. He makes the same mistakes over and over at the plate. He kills so many rally’s that if you leave him on the field it almost assures us that our team will loose many games that we would have won if we had a guy doing the fundamentals at the plate. With men on base in a big spot it almost feels like he is going to swing at the first thing close because he does not want to walk when there are men on base. This guy has trotted to first on ground ball double plays multiple times, He has made some of the worst mental mistakes I have ever seen and his attitude seems to be distant toward other teammates. This is a Cancer and no other way to put it. I really love his game and he will get better but the only way to understand just how bad of a teammate he is to have watched all the games. He has cost us no less than 10 wins people . I want a guy who pulls for his team and team pulls for him. You cannot win a ring with him ata
by Brickstonethebone on Jul 7, 2010 5:12 AM EDT reply actions
take it easy, Champ.
"I have plus plus typing speed. You just have plus typing speed."
by GeneParmesan on Jul 7, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
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