Collins and Pastornicky (Bluejay Notes)
by TtD on Jul 16, 2010 11:07 AM EDT
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As I noticed we're a little behind. Usually when the Jays trade any prospects someone passes on details and info to the new team's boards in terms of a scouting report and general notes. Given that we traded you guys two of our most popular prospects (if not our best prospects) i'm a little surprised to see nothing yet but will try to fill in as best as possible.
Tim Collins (5'5, 170lbs (5'7 in platforms ;) ))
As you no doubt have been told, he's a short lefty who K's a lot. He has four pitches;
92-94 Fastball (can hit 96)
Curveball (12-6 variety, considered the best in our system until now and is a ++ pitch)
Changeup (In use but still raw)
Cutter (Not in use yet fulltime but it is shaping up according to the little news we could track down)
Tim is a 1-3 inning guy that can either shutdown an inning or take over from a shelled starter. This year he's primarily been a setup man moving to closer for our AA team at the start of June. Since June 1st he hadn't yielded a run over 15 appearances and had picked up every save available. Your looking at a floor of a ML LOOGY, and a ceiling of a top quality closer, with a quality setup man being the likely outcome. Your main risk with him is that his action is high stress given his lack of size, though he has no injury history to speak off at this time. He's considered a high pressure pitcher, being combatative and agressive on the mound so you have someone who will give his all for the team.
Tyler Pastornicky (5'11 170lbs)
A righthanded batter, considered the most polished SS in our barren system, the criticism has always been his perceived low ceiling. Tyler has no one true standout skill physically, but has the work ethic and smarts to perform above his limited skillset. He hits for average, defends well and has good speed, and this season has finally shown more than a little power hitting 6HR. Ceiling is seen as mainly a solid defensive SS that can hit a few doubles at the ML level, floor is a AAAA burnout. Most scouts have him pinned as a defensive replacement if he's going to make the majorleagues, but I wouldn't be surprised if he made a career for himself based solely on effort.
Tyler will take a walk, and has pretty good plate discipline so expect him to hit around .260 to.270 at most levels with an OBP around .340. He'll never be a liability but his offensive contributions will be reliant on how his power develops.
Overall you got two nice raw prospects with low but ML ceilings, both with the mental skills needed to succeed but physical question marks. According to reports you had to pry both away from us competing with a number of teams, especially Collins so i'm hopeful we'll both make out well from this trade in the future.
Best of luck and hope you have some success this year, we can appreciate anyone who beats up the Phillies.
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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Thanks for the info!
Couple of thoughts:
Collins:
If he is destined because of his size to be a reliever what is the point in developing (and using) a third and fourth pitch when you already have a heater and a ++ rated curve? I would understand if you needed to throw 6-7 innings but guys like Wagner do just fine with two pitches because they are both outstanding. Also, it seems like the Braves are in love with the slider (not a bad thing) and I wonder if they will have him stop learning the other two and maybe add a slider to his FB/CU mix.
Pastornicky:
He seems like a a type of shortstop the Braves brass would be looking for – a hard working and steady defender who has on base skills and can run while any power is just a nice bonus.
Jason Heyward wins at baseball.
I just hope he pans out better than Lillibridge
by Mr. Sanchez on Jul 16, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
From what I hear, he kind of reminds me of Lillibridge.
The only time the Mets win is in the offseason.
from what I can tell, he makes better contact than lillibridge (which was his ultimate downfall at the highest levels).
by telemakhos on Jul 19, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Lillibridge stuck out too much I thought as well…
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
In terms of the pitches
Everyone in the Jays minors learns a changeup (we have a % changeup requirement for our starters), our coaches like having it as an option to set up out pitches better and it’s what is coached best. The cutter from what I understand was to give him something with more movement as he was unhappy sometimes with just the fastball. Soria would be a good example of a four pitch closer if you want a desired outcome.
by TtD on Jul 16, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He's been a starter up until this year, IIRC.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 17, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Collins? Has never started as a pro.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Hmm...
Wonder who I was looking at, then.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 30, 2010 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for the report...
much appreciated. I really like the addition of these two prospects, and it is the main thing that kept me from the “WTF Wren” response so many had to it.
Thanks dude
from what I’ve heard, I’m surprised you see Collins’ ceiling as a good closer, that sounds a bit generous.
Also, I may be more bullish on Pastornicky’s power developing than most. I think you could be underestimating his ceiling.
But then again, I have no idea what I’m talking about. Thanks for the info. :)
"Infield hits are sexy, because they require technique."
-Ichiro
His numbers are no worse than Kimbrel...
especially when you consider he’s got a couple years under his belt, and is just a few months older now than Kimbrel was when we signed him. The stats back up potential closer, even if the height doesn’t.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jul 16, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
He's a natural backend pitcher
Has a really agressive approach to the mound and likes to attack batters, he works ultra fast with about a 5 second gap between pitches and just overwhelms batters not letting them settle. Closer is possible, given his stuff and improving control, it’s just a perfect scenario outcome.
by TtD on Jul 16, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
that’s understandable. pace and especially high strike throwing rates suggest that as a possibility.
"Infield hits are sexy, because they require technique."
-Ichiro
by VivaLosBravos on Jul 16, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks!
This information is great and jives with what I’ve seen/read elsewhere. I think people are really overlooking Collins, perhaps because our ‘pen is so stacked, but his future looks plenty bright to me! Pastornicky, to be honest, doesn’t do it for me. I’m glad to know that his defense is rock solid and his speed is interesting, but his bat leaves so much to be desired at this point. That said, it’s nice to have yet another option to turn to in 2012 when Gonzalez will most likely be allowed to leave as a free agent. Thanks again, Blue Jay friend!
MileHighReport.com member since 02/06/07, promoted to "Position Coach" (i.e. new staff writer) on 02/16/10!
So how far would Pastornicky have to raise his OBP so that we could overlook his lack of power and view him as a potential lead-off hitter?
Collins was the get as far as prospects go, and I’m actually a little excited to see how he progresses in the minors.
What is both surprising and delightful is that spectators are allowed, and even expected, to join in the vocal part of the game.... There is no reason why the field should not try to put the batsman off his stroke at the critical moment by neatly timed disparagements of his wife's fidelity and his mother's respectability. ~George Bernard Shaw
He's got the eye, and he doesn't strike out much.
The issue will be seeing if he can produce hits when he swings the bats.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 17, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for the info!!
And, for what it’s worth, I hope Escobar figures it out and crushes for the Jays…
Good luck with JoJo.
-C
Strangely enough our coaching staff seem keen on JoJo
Don’t see it myself but they seem happy to have him, Sal Fasano especially.
Maybe they figured out the disconnect between AAA and MLB for him...
or plan to use him as a lefty reliever instead of a starter. I’m with you though, after so many failed attempts at the step above, he just gives me the impression of AAAA or future Royal. The Jays have done a pretty good job with pitchers though, so maybe they see something.
We tried using Jo-Jo as a lefty reliever, too,
if you recall. That experiment… well, it didn’t exactly work out. (Not to say it couldn’t work in Toronto, but jeez, the odds seem stacked against that.)
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jul 16, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh...
Jojo as a reliever = extremely small sample size
And looking at his career stats in the bigs (link below) as a starter and reliever, his numbers vs. lefties make you think in the least he could be a solid LOOGY (but we wouldn’t really have any need for that with Wags, EOF, and Venters in the big league pen, plus Dunn and then Hyde, Ortegano, and now Collins among others).
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=reyesjo03&year=Career&t=p#plato
Didn't know Fasano was coaching for you guys.
Always liked him; very cool that he’s already established himself as a potential Jays managerial candidate.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 17, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I saw him this ST, he’s loving the job so far. Dude’s gonna have a long career in baseball.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
thats all fine and good..but the question on everyones mind is…does Sal Fasano still have a porn stache?
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Jul 17, 2010 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh hell yes. It was robust as could be.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Jul 18, 2010 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sweet.
I wish I could give you some nice info on Jo-Jo Reyes, but well… You know what my mama said: “If you don’t have any nice info, don’t give any at all.”
Seriously, though, I shudder to think at what might happen to you guys if you pitched Jo-Jo in that division. I think a 100 ERA is not out of the question.
Here’s hoping (for you guy’s sake but also for Yunel’s) that Escobar can get himself together, mature a little, and put up some All-Star type numbers.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
I was gonna say...
That they could pitch him against the other two divisions, but after I thought about it, I wouldn’t want to pitch him against the Central or West either. Maybe they could pitch him against the Orioles.
What manager John Russell thought when Morton hit J-Hey with a pitch, "Would you mind not shooting at the thermonuclear weapons!"
by I Saw Buzz Beaned on Jul 16, 2010 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Scouting Report on Jo-Jo Reyes:
He sucks. He doesn’t do anything well. Don’t let him pitch in Toronto if you value winning that ballgame. And even if you think the game is out of hand, you have no idea how bad it can get until Jo-Jo comes in.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
Jo-Jo has potential, but...
He just doesn’t care to get better. Almost like JaMarcus Russell…except Jo-Jo doesn’t suck at life.
The only time the Mets win is in the offseason.
how do you know he doesnt care…i am so tired of hearing this bullshit…unless you have concrete evidence that JoJo doesn’t care dont say it…bc you just sound like an ass.
that said Jamarcus Russell does in fact suck at life…PURPLE DRANK!!!!
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Jul 16, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I remember back in ‘07 or ’08 Smoltz was so impressed with Jo-Jo that he wanted to watch him pitch a bullpen session, but he(Jo-Jo) didn’t want Smoltzie’s advice or guidence. So it may not be that he doesn’t care, but he is definately stubborn.
The only time the Mets win is in the offseason.
by GouldisGold on Jul 16, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
And he couldn’t possibly have grown up since then…
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
no by the time you are 21 you never get more mature or realize you need to get better
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Jul 17, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Eh...
It tells you about the type of character of a guy, and even if that behavior occurs int he past, a bit of it always shows up in frustrating moments in the future. Take it for what its worth: not too much, but not too little.
I hate the Phillies so much...
by frozendesert on Jul 17, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought we already had, like 3 or 4 Collinses. Only taller.
I meanr srsly,what is Wren planning with this overabundance of young LH relief? EOF,DUnn, Venters, Collins?
by !Vive la Francoeur! on Jul 17, 2010 1:44 AM EDT reply actions
Trade bait
Washington Tribune, June 29 2010 – "The stonecutters carving Stephen Strasburg’s name onto the Washington Monument have been directed to await further instructions."
trade, injuries, failure upon promotion...
the excess will work itself out. But that’s a good thing to have in excess. And in addition to the 4, Scott Diamond and Jose Ortegano probably profile as a big league relievers, Lee Hyde is on the cusp, Richard Sullivan while having struggles also has potential and the tools to be a good reliever, we’ve got quite a few potential lefty bullpen arms, and probably as good a batch of relief lefties in our high minors as any of multiple WS contenders do in their entire organization.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jul 17, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Great info.
Thanks for posting.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
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