Ranting and Raving: Escobar v. Gonzalez
by ejruiz on Jul 15, 2010 4:23 PM EDT
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The recent trade between the Atlanta Braves and the Toronto Blue Jays, headlined by shortstops Yunel Escobar and Alex Gonzalez, took the baseball world by surprise. For us Braves fans, this meant once again parting ways with a slick-fielding homegrown SS with even greater all-around potential under less than favorable conditions. Escobar was a polarizing figure to begin with, but his exit blew his place within the fanbase into an outright controversy. I’ve largely opted to sit on the sidelines as the debate raged here on Talking Chop, but I can’t do that anymore. This isn’t a great piece of literature or even all that good as far as sports journalism is concerned, but there were a few things that I wanted to get off of my chest sooner rather than later. This is just me, being the fan that I am, not stopping to shape this post into something more complete, balanced or stylish. Follow me below the fold for more, if you wish.
Since the beginning of 2007, Alex Gonzalez has a stat line of .256/.300/.437 (.737 OPS) in 1112 AB. Exclude 258 woeful plate appearances for the Reds in 2009, and those slash stats jump to .269/.311/.476 (.787 OPS) in 869 AB. Suddenly Gonzalez's 2010 - .259/.296/.497 (.793 OPS) in 328 AB - doesn't seem so outlandish anymore, does it? So, while Alex's HR total so far this season might be a fluke, his overall performance at the plate isn't likely to fall off a cliff should some of those homers turn into doubles in the future.
Moreover and for what it's worth, he currently ranks 7th in Major League Baseball in UZR (just one "run" behind Escobar in 3rd), and he comes in 3rd over the last two years combined (four "runs" better than Yunel in 8th). Even as he's aged, he's still a steady defender at a premium position at very least.
Finally, he's replacing a guy who's gone .238/.334/.284 (.618 OPS) in 261 AB so far this season, a line so pathetic that even shiny-but-inconsistent play at short couldn't overcome. He also managed to routinely infuriate one of baseball's most player-friendly managers and made few friends in an otherwise remarkably happy locker room. Moreover, he’s 27-years-old, so he's probably on the tail-end of his prime and likely already experienced his peak.
Everyone in the media sees this trade for what it was: a good gamble on the part of Toronto and a solid win-now move by the Atlanta. Some Braves fans, however, continue to overvalue their own players to the point of absurdity. Much like every other trade made by Frank Wren and some made more lately by Schuerholz, it'll get bashed by some until it finally pans out or no longer matters. Personally, I view it as a trade of limited repercussions. Yunel was never long for the Braves and we got both short and a potential long term replacements in a deal for him, plus an intriguing young relief pitcher already in the upper minors to boot. Ultimately, it'll likely be a forgettable trade and I hate that I've now put even this much time into it.
Thank you for indulging me by reading this rant. I mean no offense to anyone in particular, so I apologize in advance to anyone who takes any from this. I might not engage in the discussion to follow in the comments because I’d really like to move on from this now that the second half of the season is upon us, but feel free to continue the debate here with whomever else still feels the need to argue about it. I can only hope that it’s a little more sincere - quit quoting career numbers for Gonzalez that include 646 AB from the 90's and ignoring Yunel’s troublesome lack of power both this year and in the past - and please keep it civil. Thanks again, and as always, go Braves!
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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KLaw convinced me
not to hate it anymore. I just can’t say I like it. I just think that, for a guy of Yunel’s talent level, the Braves could have gotten more. I think that Gonzalez is less likely to improve the team this season. And I think that that .300 OBP is going to be particularly infuriating. He isn’t young. He will, at best, match Yunel’s production/potential production, and is unlikely to do that. And as a result, I somewhat resent the characterization of this trade as a “win now” move. That would change completely if it was used (or the prospects obtained were used) to make another deal that would improve the outfield situation.
I don’t hate the trade anymore. Yunel clearly played his way off of the Braves. While I highly doubt that such intangibles such as attitude make a difference for an entire club, they clearly do for individuals, and clearly Bobby think’s that Yunel’s makeup will prevent him from ever reaching his potential. Bobby is far more the expert than I will ever be. As is Frank Wren. And I have always defended Wren’s moves, even the ones that everyone else seemd to hate (the Vazquez trade being first in my mind). I am willing to be open minded, and I am willing to be proven wrong. Wren has done well so far. He has earned a significant amount of slack to prove that this was the right move. The same goes for any future deals he makes.
Well said EJ.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 15, 2010 4:52 PM EDT reply actions
Interesting
we had similar sentiments yesterday. I’m still not happy about the trade, but I’m kind of sick of arguing and more than ready to start rooting for Gonzalez et al.
"Infield hits are sexy, because they require technique."
-Ichiro
by VivaLosBravos on Jul 15, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Sounds Good
MileHighReport.com member since 02/06/07, promoted to "Position Coach" (i.e. new staff writer) on 02/16/10!
I think that's the issue.
It isn’t that this was a bad trade now, it is that if we knew what kind of problem he was (which we apparently did if the clubhouse comments are to be believed), we should have moved him in the off-season when he had more value.
I am completely neutral on this trade; the defense is even but I think that the offense definitely favors Toronto. The intangibles, however, definitely favor us, and the front office is likely to know a lot more about Escobar’s issues that we do, so I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt and call the trade neutral.
Fair Enough
MileHighReport.com member since 02/06/07, promoted to "Position Coach" (i.e. new staff writer) on 02/16/10!
True. But to be fair, I think the Braves have been trying to move him for a while now. Escobar was at the center of the package Atlanta was sending to San Diego for Peavy a few winters back.
I think the trade works. Granted, I’m less prone to jump off a building regardless of who we bring in. We’ve got some mighty smart baseball people running this organization top to bottom. I trust they know what they are doing better than any of us do.
It's a fine line...
He’s never been on a really good team before, and winning often cures attitude issues. Giving up on him this offseason would have been too soon, IMO, and it wasn’t until the Glaus play that he truly “bought his ticket” out of town.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 17, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
That's
I hate the Phillies so much...
by frozendesert on Jul 17, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Subject line should say ’That’s true’.
I hate the Phillies so much...
by frozendesert on Jul 17, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks
Andy, I think you’ve been one of the most vocal opponents of this trade, so I’m appreciative of this comment from you now. I can only hope others in that camp take the same tact!
MileHighReport.com member since 02/06/07, promoted to "Position Coach" (i.e. new staff writer) on 02/16/10!
no problem
I remember having debates with you about these kind of things on Chop’n’Change. As I said, Frank Wren and company deserve slack on this. And I am tired of arguing about it. I have made my points and am ready to root for Gonzalez and hope the Braves continue to succeed.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 16, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Last time
I checked Chop-N-Change (two minutes ago), they were reporting that the Braves had just set their Opening-Day Roster.
What happened to that place?
I hate the Phillies so much...
by frozendesert on Jul 17, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
the parent site
went under. I believe it was called MVN. I think Alex Remington moved to a new site. Haven’t seen it. Wish him the best, that was a fun blog.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 17, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m with you.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 16, 2010 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions
You claim the Braves should have gotten more...
but where were all the rumored offers? Yunel’s been on the block for a year-plus, and we’ve heard no interest for him whatsoever.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 17, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
MLBtraderumors
reported, through an established writer, that the Blue Jays were the first- and only- team to have been talked to about Escobar.
I hate the Phillies so much...
by frozendesert on Jul 17, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Link:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/odds-ends-sheets-padres-scutaro-nationals.html
I hate the Phillies so much...
by frozendesert on Jul 17, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean
we didn’t know about the Gonzalez offer, what makes you think that we would have heard all of the offers? And we don’t really know that he was being extensively shopped either. Basically, I understood it as that teams were offering and the Braves were reluctant unless they got a real good package. I just don’t think that this was a real good package.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 17, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
A real good package turns into a much worse one...
When the player in question puts the careers of his teammates in potential jeopardy.
Straw that broke the camel’s back, imo.
That said, it has been reported that this was the only package offered. If you’re already willing to cut ties with a player and then he does what Yunel did in the field, simply accepting the first offer isn’t out of the realm of possibility.
-C
Angels and Tigers were looking for a SS and Escobar was on their radar. We should have done a deal with the Tigers
we could have gotten Jurrjens…o wait we already did that…im pretty sure they have some decent hitters in their system that could have been useful, but where would we have gotten our SS?
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Your rant needs more Mel Gibson.
But yes, my first reaction was ‘Oh sweet Jesus.’, then went to ’Gonzalez’s season is a fluke. Bad deal!‘, to ’I didn’t realize that Escobar wore out his welcome so fast.‘, to ’I might not hate this trade. Especially for that 2.5 million option.’
Lets hope that Escobar keeps up his power numbers. With this lineup, its likely that his low OBP will be absorbed and his power will result in more runs crossing the plate.
Hate it
I just have one question: Did Yunel develop his “bad” attitude in 2010? I don’t think so. People have been bitching about his facial expressions and frosted tips for a couple of years now. So if the answer to my original question is “No, he’s been a bad clubhouse guy since before the 2010 season started”, why the hell wasn’t he traded before the season started, when his value was extremely high and a proper replacement could have been procured? That is why this is a bad trade. Considering how badly the FO played this, getting Gonzalez/Collins/Persnickety is actually quite good. However, I can’t compliment the FO for getting a decent deal considering the circumstances when they were the ones who created the poor circumstances in the first place!
Don't kiss an ass if it's in the process of shitting on you.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
Well...
As a Braves player was quoted, though I’m paraphrasing somewhat: “you can get away with [Escobar’s baggage] when you’re hitting .300”. Maybe they held on to him to long, giving him the benefit of the doubt as a player and as a person, but they did what they do (i.e. trust guys too much) and got burned. Stupid? Probably. Well-intentioned? I think so…
MileHighReport.com member since 02/06/07, promoted to "Position Coach" (i.e. new staff writer) on 02/16/10!
Like him or not, its hard to trade your starting shortstop without getting something comparable in return. Bad attitude, yes, but you scuttle your team if you trade him for a bag of baseballs. While the Braves seem to have wanted to move him for a while now, you don’t throw away the most crucial position on the field unless you got a fill in for it.
I like how you take out Gonzalez's worst stretch and then compare the results to Yunel's worst stretch
Playing that game, Yunel’s numbers since he came up are .301/.375/.426, which look a little better than Gonzalez’s numbers over the same period.
Nope.
Glad you picked that out of the whole thing! I give his overall numbers and then, just for the sake of showing that he’s been capable of the same sort of slash stats that he’s putting up this season, I took out the rough ‘09 stint with the Reds. Regardless, that’s no more cynical or devious than people using career numbers for Gonzalez and ignoring Yunels power outages (that’s right, multiples)…
MileHighReport.com member since 02/06/07, promoted to "Position Coach" (i.e. new staff writer) on 02/16/10!
Hate the trade. Selling low and buying high rarely works out in any trade, except for the team on the opposite end.
Everyone is saying this is a win now move. Well, we’re already winning now. Even with Escobar’s brutal offensive numbers, he’s still managed to put up a positive WAR because he is able to take a walk and plays some great defense at shortstop, at least according to UZR.
I don’t buy into the clubhouse cancer bullshit. These guys are professional baseball players. You think they made it to the majors on friendship and hugs? No, they made it to the majors on talent. The fact that they have some whiny ass turd playing shortstop should have little to no effect on how they play the game, and by the looks of our winning record despite having a terrible outfield, it’s not having an effect.
What it comes down to, is what’s best for now and the future? I think a slight argument can be made that this is better now (although I have a feeling the second half will see Escobar have a better showing than Gonzalez, as they both trend back towards their career norms). However, I feel that no argument can be made that this helps the team for future seasons.
Eh.
People have been taking for granted that Escobar will hit better than Gonzalez in the second half; I hope everyone else that wants to go on the record for believing that replies to this comment just so I can make a list. If you’re right, I’ll be happy to apologize for calling you out; if you’re wrong, I hope you all will be happy to eat crow. Just to be clear: I think Alex will hit better than Yunel in the second half of 2010.
MileHighReport.com member since 02/06/07, promoted to "Position Coach" (i.e. new staff writer) on 02/16/10!
As long as you eat crow when you’re wrong. You are the one being “devious” taking out Alex’s Reds stretch, but counting Yunel’s career worst stretch. You say multiple, but Yunel has never hit this bad since his call up.
Also how can you say Yunel’s has reached his peak at 27, yet believe at 33 Alex has learned how to hit? Talk about cherry picking to fit your stance.
Alex’s OBP is horrible. Thee is no getting around that.
since players peak at a variety of ages I’m not sure he’s cherry picking, but I have also been puzzled by arguments claiming Yunel is in decline. Is there any reason other than a few bad months that I should believe a 27 year old lost his talent? Honest question. I just find it hard to buy that cavalier statement.
"Infield hits are sexy, because they require technique."
-Ichiro
by VivaLosBravos on Jul 15, 2010 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
no one has ever argued that a 300 OBP is a defensible number…thats the thing the people who dislike the trade continue to harp on…those of us who either like the trade, or like EJ (and consequently me) think that the trade is a neutral move for now and we got some prospects, are looking at the fact that Gonzalez has shown good power throughout his career.
Career ISO
Gonzalez --.152
Escobar——-.112
both players have their positives and negatives.. Yunel definitely has more upside, no one will argue that…but where the hell did his power go. a complete lack of power is discouraging when there are no explanations for it (in my mind at least). Gonzalez is a more steady option. We know what he is he isn’t gonna walk a lot, he is gonna strike out some, he will hit some HRs and he will play great defense. And most importantly for this clubhouse, he won’t take plays off and will act more “professionally” (fyi i hate that i used that word).
EJ wasn’t being slightly or anything by showing the 250 AB stretch was a fluke. he was merely pointing out that if you remove that the offensive difference between Yunel (even if you don’t count this year) and Alex isn’t that big and the defense is almost identical (for his career Alex is better by UZR and Yunel is better by DRS).
The other thing that really bothers me is the idea that Yunel’s attitude wasn’t hurting us because we are in first place…that makes no sense at all. It is entirely possible that we are winning in spite of Yunel and could be setting the world of fire with e 700 winning percentage (i doubt this seriously). Just because we are in first place doesn’t mean we cant be doing better. The only way you can’t do better is if you win every game (and even then you could do better, if you never made an out, although than there would be some sort of mercy rule enacted and thats unlikely).
In summation, make sure when we are arguing this that we don’t “talk past each other” you say OBP is low, everyone agrees, we say he has more power and is a better clubhouse presence (and then the sub-faction questions whether that is important or not).
I also dont think that any of the people who like this trade dont realize this trade has the potential to work out horribly… Its entirely possible this is the situation that straightens out Yunel and he learns the err of his ways…and finally puts it together bats 330 with a 400OBP and adequate power and cuts out the mental mistakes and challenges Andruw for the best defensive season in the UZR era.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Jul 15, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
all good points
"Sometimes I think it is a great mistake to have matter that can think and feel. It complains so. By the same token, though, I suppose that boulders and mountains and moons could be accused of being a little too phlegmatic."
-Kurt Vonnegut, "The Sirens of Titan"
by Bravely going forward on Jul 16, 2010 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow!
Why don’t you become a Phillies fan. Please. I am guessing that the fact that the entire team gave Gonzalez a standing “O” when he came into the locker room doesn’t mean anything at all. It tells me that the ENTIRE TEAM is very happy to be rid of Escobar.
What manager John Russell thought when Morton hit J-Hey with a pitch, "Would you mind not shooting at the thermonuclear weapons!"
by I Saw Buzz Beaned on Jul 16, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
woah there
a lot of people hate this trade. There are a lot of good reasons to do so. Escobar was a lightning rod of a player, young, cost controlled, and talented. Even with the boneheaded mistakes, thes are still true. And is the entire team giving Gonzo a standing ovation a comment on Escobar, or just showing their support for Gonzo? I am betting it is the latter. I am sure that some players didn’t like Escobar, that seems clear, but that doesn’t mean that everyone hated escobar either.
Lets keep the attacks down, that was the point of this fanpost, and try to keep it reasonable.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 16, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought that was reasonable.
What manager John Russell thought when Morton hit J-Hey with a pitch, "Would you mind not shooting at the thermonuclear weapons!"
by I Saw Buzz Beaned on Jul 16, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
It was.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 17, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
"Just support?"
Find me another example of a guy getting a standing O upon his arrival to Atlanta..
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 17, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
"Love It or Leave It"
Awesome, awesome argument. I’m sold.
Don't kiss an ass if it's in the process of shitting on you.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
"The fact that they have some whiny ass turd playing shortstop should have little to no effect on how they play the game"
What kind of effect would a broken wrist have had for Troy Glaus on how he plays the game?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 17, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
So now we’re making arguments based on something that almost happened, but didn’t? I can do that, too…
What if Alex Gonzalez could muster an OPS+ above 85 in the year 2010?
What if Alex Gonzalez could take a walk in more than 5% of his plate appearances?
by drdonkeypunch on Jul 17, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
IT DID HAPPEN
Fortunately, Glaus wasn’t severely injured.
Maybe it never happens again, but the past indicates that the possibility of his lackadaisical attitude hurting himself or others on the field is definitely a question that had to be addressed by the front office.
-C
Wait, Glaus got a broken wrist, but it turned out that it wasn’t a serious injury?
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 18, 2010 4:04 AM EDT up reply actions
maybe I’m in the minority here, but i didnt see a lot wrong with what Yunel did there. He took some off his throw with the thought being it would be more accurate (he was clearly wrong). he was trying to make the safe play. it just so happened he made a horrible throw and glaus almost got hurt. would anyone had complained had Yunel gunned one over to Glaus, when gunning it clearly wasn;t necessary, and that throw pulled Glaus off first and caused the same result.
there’s plenty of things to be mad at Yunel for, he does seem to have a poor attitude, and its been substantiated by the team, and he isn’t hitting for any power…but in this case i didn’t see the problem
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Again, I am not in the camp that thinks this was a horrible thing. I am just replying to the guy who hates Yunel for what could have happened, but didn’t happen, but he doesn’t care because he still hates Yunel.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 19, 2010 3:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Just to be clear, I wish Yunel was still our SS.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 19, 2010 3:15 AM EDT up reply actions
you make a solid argument.
"Sometimes I think it is a great mistake to have matter that can think and feel. It complains so. By the same token, though, I suppose that boulders and mountains and moons could be accused of being a little too phlegmatic."
-Kurt Vonnegut, "The Sirens of Titan"
by Bravely going forward on Jul 15, 2010 11:11 PM EDT reply actions
big breakthrough
if you exclude a player’s poor performance, his overall stats get better! i would have never guessed.
Let’s not forget, if you exclude the last five years, Alex Gonzalez is 28, which is practically the same age as Yunel!
by drdonkeypunch on Jul 16, 2010 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Well-played, Mauer.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 16, 2010 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions
WOW!
You guys LOVE your strawmen almost as much as I love quoting myself:
Since the beginning of 2007, Alex Gonzalez has a stat line of .256/.300/.437 (.737 OPS) in 1112 AB. Exclude 258 woeful plate appearances for the Reds in 2009, and those slash stats jump to .269/.311/.476 (.787 OPS) in 869 AB. Suddenly Gonzalez’s 2010 – .259/.296/.497 (.793 OPS) in 328 AB – doesn’t seem so outlandish anymore, does it?
Yes, I go on to exclude a rough stretch to prove an additional point – that Gonzalez has been capable of putting up numbers like his slash stats this season for extended periods of time before – BUT I do disclose his full, overall stats, which still belie the crowd championing his career numbers as proof that he’s a terrible hitter. But to be fair, let’s take out Yunel’s pathetic 261 AB of 2010 and compare that more favorable line to my “fudged” Gonzalez line (which was minus 258 AB and they share the same span)
Escobar (2007-2009, doesn’t include 261 AB from 2010): .301/.375/.426 (.801 OPS)
Gonzalez (2007-2010, minus 258 AB from ’09 for Cincy): .269/.311/.476 (.787 OPS)
Forgive me for failing to see why Yunel is the vastly superior hitter of the two! Oh, and by the way, apologies for also referencing the widely held belief that baseball players prime and peak are sometime in their mid-20’s. Gonzalez is obviously an exception to that “rule”, but it still stands that most players experience career highs earlier in their paths. I only brought that up because I think it’s a possibility that Yunel may have already seen his best days. His attitude doesn’t help him one bit in expecting him to improve.
Finally, please remember that the bulk of Yunel’s minor league track record (428 out of 836 AB) came in 2006 as a 23-year-old at AA, a season during which his SLG was a whooping .346! The guy just doesn’t have power, even though his body is fully developed and he’s plenty of experience. What say you now?
MileHighReport.com member since 02/06/07, promoted to "Position Coach" (i.e. new staff writer) on 02/16/10!
by ejruiz on Jul 16, 2010 9:57 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
On base percentage is more important than slugging. Escobar has far superior on base skills. OPS weighs on base percentage and slugging as if they are equal in importance, which they are not. Therefore, OPS is not the best way to measure someone’s hitting abilities.
Power is one aspect of the hitting game, but it’s certainly not everything. If it were, Wily Mo Pena would still be playing in a major league outfield hitting towering 450 foot home runs and striking out at ridiculous rates. There are other aspects of the hitting game, like contact and walking. Alex Gonzalez is not good at contact, and downright terrible at walking.
by drdonkeypunch on Jul 16, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with what you are saying to a point. When we talk about the 1-2 hitters in our lineup, OBP definitely trumps SLG everyday. Moving along to 3-4-5, you love to see that both those numbers are nice and healthy. In the 6-hole, I’m going to go back to a more OBP oriented outlook(and hopefully driving in some runs in the process), though you’d probably still like to see a guy who can make solid XBH contact.
But when I consider the 7-8 batters, I don’t really expect them to get on base all that often (which justifies their low slotting in the batting order)…but I sure would feel a lot better knowing that they have a fair shot of driving themselves in for a run if their OBP really sucks.
When Gonzalez makes contact, it’s good contact and his SLG demonstrates it. If we’re talking about batting this guy 7-8, then I can certainly live with his slashes. If we’re looking at ejruiz’s slash stats for AGon, we’re looking at a guy who will get on base a tad under one plate appearance in three. I’m sold. Go Braves!
What is both surprising and delightful is that spectators are allowed, and even expected, to join in the vocal part of the game.... There is no reason why the field should not try to put the batsman off his stroke at the critical moment by neatly timed disparagements of his wife's fidelity and his mother's respectability. ~George Bernard Shaw
Reply fail to drdonkeypunch
What is both surprising and delightful is that spectators are allowed, and even expected, to join in the vocal part of the game.... There is no reason why the field should not try to put the batsman off his stroke at the critical moment by neatly timed disparagements of his wife's fidelity and his mother's respectability. ~George Bernard Shaw
Again...
(And I’ll admit that this is anecdotal evidence, not scientific:) When the Braves have struggled to score this year, it’s not because they’re not getting hitters on base. It’s that they can’t get the hit (particularly the XBH) that gets them around to score.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 17, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
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