The Official Rosterbation Thread
by Scott Coleman on Jun 8, 2010 3:36 PM EDT
Email
PrintEveryone likes rosterbating. It's part of the natural process of life.
HERE is where you do it. Public rosterbating is crude, clogs up the FanPost section and isn't good for the children to see.
The MLB trade deadline is about 50 days from now, so get all of your "JoJo and a prospect for Grady Seizmore" and "Kawakami for salary relief because KK doesn't have winz" trade scenarios out for TC Nation to think about.
Ready....set....GO!
(Rec this please. It just takes 5. Thanks in advance.)
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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what does anyone think about austin jackson?
or a likewise min salary cf guy?
What can be said about him that hasn't already been said? His every adjustment is a gift, his every at-bat a festival, his every swing a cool dewy breeze tinged with raspberry and incense. The only question is whether he'll win multiple MVPs or merely the Nobel Prize for Looking Like He Has Been There Before.
I would rather have Grady Sizemore
Nate and Reyes for Sizemore
Admired as a saint. Defined by my rank. Combined with my strength. My time and my length.
Austin Jackson...
the guy the Tigers got for Granderson?
No way they’d trade him. Sure, he’s been lucky this year, but he’s like a mini-Heyward to them.
"(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper -- You know he's gonna get you, you just never know when or where."
by Scott Coleman on Jun 8, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
jwenez's deleted fanpost
Lowe for Vasquez
Tiny by jvvenez on Jun 8, 2010 11:12 AM PDT Comment 15 comments, 15 new
It might be too late now since Vasquez just got two good starts in a row but if he doesn’t keep it up in the next couple of games he starts then it makes too much sense.
Lowe have done great in the AL in the past, Vasquez did great on the NL and not so well on the AL. I think the Yankees would be ok with eating most of Lowe’s contract if Vasquez keeps pitching like he did the until mid May then this could only help both teams
I know they could have had Lowe when we made the trade but that was when Javy just posted a GREAT season and had not been killed this season. Lowe actually have the better ERA this season (which is sad).
What do you think?
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Vazquez
(2 z’s)
“It looks like The Hound of the Baskervilles out there.” – Steve Stone
“…I’m reminded of Wuthering Heights.” – Harry Caray
~
“i’m going to keep stats on you for as long as it humors me….target is unclear” – BMacAttack (Hohn’s queef)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jun 8, 2010 11:16 AM PDT reply actions
This has only been discussed
umpteen million times on TC already. I don’t think there’s any chance that the teams actually do this, even if it does make some sense. Sorry.
“Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap.” — Karl Karlson
by pacgnosis on Jun 8, 2010 11:18 AM PDT reply actions
the Braves would absolutely do this IMHO…the Yankees would never consider it though, unless they are dumber than I thought
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the “right handed bat”?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Jun 8, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
you don’t think the yankees make dumb trades?
by BravesRaleigh on Jun 8, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Regardless of how unlikely this is
It belongs in rosterbation thread.
MODS?
by fphjr01 on Jun 8, 2010 11:29 AM PDT reply actions
And did you still wanna do this trade when Lowe was pitching really well over his last 5 starts? Or is it that he has one bad start, and it’s time for him to go again?
by dunnytwogloves on Jun 8, 2010 11:31 AM PDT reply actions
duh
time for him to go again
“It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone.” A. Bartlett Giamatti
by sddbaker on Jun 8, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
The Yankees aren’t eating that shitty Lowe contract.
They’ll cut ties with Vazquez at the end of the year and take their pick of the available FA SP.
by get swoll yunel on Jun 8, 2010 11:44 AM PDT reply actions
In public?
NOOOOOOOO!
And where and why the hell do we not have a rosterbation thread up?
“(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper — You know he’s gonna get you, you just never know when or where.”
by mvhsbball on Jun 8, 2010 11:52 AM PDT reply actions
it got 4 recs
…fuck lucky charms
by VivaLosBravos on Jun 8, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
needs 5 i think
…fuck lucky charms
by VivaLosBravos on Jun 8, 2010 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions
we did have one, don’ t know where it went
“UNLIKE CYBORG REYES JOJO MY CPU DOES NOT REQUIRE ‘EARNED RUNS’ FOR NOURISHMENT”
by Smoltz’s Beard on Jun 8, 2010 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Me too. I was looking in the archive too. Not sure what happened. Screw it. I’ll make one.
“(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper — You know he’s gonna get you, you just never know when or where.”
by mvhsbball on Jun 8, 2010 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I thought we were done with these?
“UNLIKE CYBORG REYES JOJO MY CPU DOES NOT REQUIRE ‘EARNED RUNS’ FOR NOURISHMENT”
by Smoltz’s Beard on Jun 8, 2010 12:07 PM PDT reply actions
New rosterbation thread is up
I don’t have the power, but I’m sure this’ll be moved over there to keep things organized.
“(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper — You know he’s gonna get you, you just never know when or where.”
by mvhsbball on Jun 8, 2010 12:37 PM PDT reply actions
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
I'm just glad this survived somewhere.
...fuck lucky charms
by VivaLosBravos on Jun 9, 2010 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions
someone get this man some waffles.
...fuck lucky charms
by VivaLosBravos on Jun 9, 2010 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions
ArmyITSpec's deleted fanpost
Scenario
New_ngb_image_tiny by ArmyITSpec on Jun 8, 2010 8:24 AM PDT Comment 12 comments
I have a scenario for TC. Lets say it’s late September and the playoffs positioning is already set and final. Would you consider bringing up our top prospects like Teheran, Delgado, Vizciano for one ML start just to see how they would do against ML competion. Sort of like you would in Sprig Training. This would also be a way to rest your starters for the playoffs. Will this be a solution considering that it will have no bearing on the seeds in the playoffs?
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Wouldn’t that start the arb clocks?
I fed a fish to a pelican and Frisco bay and he tried to eat my cell phone he ran away
by TradeAndruw on Jun 8, 2010 8:28 AM PDT reply actions
or at the very least use one of their options.
by dunnytwogloves on Jun 8, 2010 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions
I dont know
I thought they had to be on a ML roster for a certain time. I didnt know one start would start the arb clocks.
Admired as a saint. Defined by my rank. Combined with my strength. My time and my length.
by ArmyITSpec on Jun 8, 2010 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think it would. You have to be in the top 17% of rookies in service time. One start wouldn’t do that. Dude’s right about options, though.
…fuck lucky charms
by VivaLosBravos on Jun 8, 2010 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Unless one of the starters is injured, I’d rather they keep pitching in order to stay sharp. The Braves could always give Medlen a spot start or two (assuming he goes back to the pen when JJ returns) in order to rest somebody or call up Todd Redmond or somebody else from Gwinnett. There will be plenty of time to see how the youngsters do against major league hitting in spring training of ’11.
by redwards95 on Jun 8, 2010 8:36 AM PDT reply actions
Aren’t they in Myrtle Beach? Why would we do that? I’d probably want to call up Minor.
“Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I’m not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have.” – Chipper Jones
by MBL1 on Jun 8, 2010 8:40 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
For transaction rules go here:
link
The biggest reason this won’t happen is because we’d have to add all the players to the 40 man roster. This would mean removing some existing players from the 40 man roster, exposing them to waivers. While there may be 3-4 guys that we wouldn’t be all that worried about losing, we wouldn’t risk giving them up for nothing just so the guys mentioned could get 1 september start.
Essentially this makes absolutely no sense and will not happen.
by fphjr01 on Jun 8, 2010 10:42 AM PDT reply actions
BINGO!
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the “right handed bat”?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Jun 8, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Winner.
I wrote a novel, it’s about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Jun 8, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Nope
No way they’d do that. Only high-profile prospect who could be called up would be Freeman.
“(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper — You know he’s gonna get you, you just never know when or where.”
by mvhsbball on Jun 8, 2010 11:40 AM PDT reply actions
Hey, it worked out well with Joey Devine
why not……….
yea, bad idea, sorry
by BravesRaleigh on Jun 8, 2010 12:23 PM PDT reply actions
Ok
I get the point. It was a stupid idea
Admired as a saint. Defined by my rank. Combined with my strength. My time and my length.
by ArmyITSpec on Jun 8, 2010 12:52 PM PDT reply actions
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
so get all of your “JoJo and a prospect for Grady Seizmore” and “Kawakami for salary relief because KK doesn’t have winz” trade scenarios out for TC Nation to think about.
So your saying all rosterbation is dumb like this?
Yes.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
But what team wouldn’t want to trade one of it’s best players for a grab bag of C+ prospects???
by bwellnjonesco on Jun 8, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
The Braves. We are the only exception.
...fuck lucky charms
by VivaLosBravos on Jun 9, 2010 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Thank you to whoever rec'd this so quickly.
"(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper -- You know he's gonna get you, you just never know when or where."
heywerd and fraamen for roy oswalt
no but seriously a bautista or willingham esque power hitter would really be nice
What can be said about him that hasn't already been said? His every adjustment is a gift, his every at-bat a festival, his every swing a cool dewy breeze tinged with raspberry and incense. The only question is whether he'll win multiple MVPs or merely the Nobel Prize for Looking Like He Has Been There Before.
Willingham acquisition would make us the best team in the NL.
...fuck lucky charms
by VivaLosBravos on Jun 9, 2010 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions
too bad
the Nationals are actually still in contention if they get Oswalt along with Wang, Marquis and Zimmerman back in a reasonable time they could really contend
by drumzalicious on Jun 9, 2010 3:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow
I just realized all four of those guys could be in their rotation.
...fuck lucky charms
by VivaLosBravos on Jun 9, 2010 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions
With Stras, Lannan, and Livan as well...
so I’d assume if Wang and Marquis come back solid, they slow down Zimmerman. Plus there’s Scott Olsen in the mix as well.
what happened to the other thread? I thought it got enough rec’s.
"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson
that’s what i was wondering, but it just kinda disappeared.
"(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper -- You know he's gonna get you, you just never know when or where."
by Scott Coleman on Jun 8, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
oops my bad
i was cleaning through some rogue fanpost openthreads i started and accidentally deleted it.
The only thing this team needs
is to have its best hitter break his leg celebrating a walk-off grand slam. It’s worked great for the Angels so far!
Seriously, though, I don’t see any reason to start rosterbating yet. I have yet to hear a single proposal that both A) could happen and B) would help the team.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
Lowe/Medlen, McLouth, Resop, and a prospect or 2 for Span or Young
The Twins may win the central but to get further into the playoffs they are going to need more pitching. Just a suggestion…
So we send them, if it's Lowe, not Medlen...
one overpriced mid 30s pitcher, one nearing 30 AAA pitcher who already struggled greatly in the bigs, and a more expensive and worse CF? I’m gonna guess they’d pass. It’s amazing how bad some of these ideas get.
Thanks for the constructive criticism...
Mainly wanted to point on that these are 2 guys that we could potentially look at…
They aren't dealing Denard Span...
and Delmon Young is a solid player, but I’m not sure if we’d want him either. Denard Span signed a 5 year extension before the season, so the Twins definitely aren’t gonna shop him.
Legitimate rosterbation...
within a week—Chris Resop for Christian Martinez.
Otherwise, we’re not doing anything until after the All Star break (barring injuries and more internal shuffling).
He goes down when JJ returns in my mind...
Chavez has capable stuff, and Bobby is at least willing to use him unlike Martinez.
ROSTERBATION ROSTERBATE TRADE THIS FOR THAT AND THAT FOR THIS ROSTERBATION ROSTERBATE RELEASE SO AND SO ROSTERBATION ROSTERBATE
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
by MBL1 on Jun 8, 2010 5:47 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
lol.
Feel better now?
Help me! Some bullies threw my shoes over a telephone wire...with me in them!!
by !Vive la Francoeur! on Jun 8, 2010 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
ROSTERBATE ROSTERBATE
im good now
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
by MBL1 on Jun 8, 2010 6:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Confucious say:
Many rosterbation leave man with hairy palm.
"Jason Heyward was a Greek philosopher reincarnated as a baseball player." - Don Sutton
somebody get this man some waffles.
...fuck lucky charms
by VivaLosBravos on Jun 9, 2010 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m a woman…
But yes…GET ME SOME WAFFLES
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
by MBL1 on Jun 9, 2010 2:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Jurrjens
Gearrin
Robinson Lopez
Another lower prospect
For
Josh Hamilton
by drumzalicious on Jun 8, 2010 7:27 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I definitely wouldn't do that.
Hamilton is too injury prone. Not to mention the personal issues. I don’t think I’d even do JJ straight up for him given that JJ is 5 years younger and was worth the same WAR as Hamilton in 2008 and way more in 2009.
But, I’ll give you this. That idea works financially and would improve our outfield, so it’s not totally crazy.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jun 8, 2010 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Cruz
but he’s actually older than Hamilton and seems to have some injury issues as well. So no, I wouldn’t do him for JJ either.
But… perhaps we could find an appropriate package for Cruz if we put our thinking caps on.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jun 8, 2010 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions
the problem
is that they actually could use a starter that is relatively inexpensive. I doubt they would take someone unproven like Resop in a deal for either one. Unless we did something around BP arms and a higher positional prospect like Milligan or something
by drumzalicious on Jun 8, 2010 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
oh about Cruz
The reason I said Hamilton is because he is closer to FA and they would be more likely to depart with him.
by drumzalicious on Jun 9, 2010 3:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
really?
Looks like you’re awfully high on JJ.
Is there anything statistically that justifies the way people evaluate him? I can’t find it.
Moreover, for all of Hamilton’s injury/various concerns, Jurrjens is the one on the DL right now.
Lastly, I’m not sure age is really an issue. We’d get Hamilton’s final two arb. years, and wouldn’t have to worry about his decline afterwards since he isn’t bound to a long term deal like most his age. Also, JJ’s peak years would probably come post-arb.
I’d certainly do this deal, particularly with Minor nearing ML readiness.
...fuck lucky charms
by VivaLosBravos on Jun 9, 2010 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not over-valuing JJ.
Look at FanGraphs. He was way more valuable than Hamilton last year, and just as valuable as Hamilton even in Josh’s career year of 2008. And he’s 5 YEARS younger. I think you are way OVER-valuing Hamilton. He’s not that great, and he’s further along in the arb. process than JJ is, too, so he’ll probably cost more. Seriously, why would Hamilton be worth more than Jurrjens at this point? I can’t find a single reason to think that.
JJ’s injury is not really worrisome to me long-term. If anything, it helps him long-term b/c it saves wear and tear on his arm. We can do much better than Hamilton if we do trade JJ.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jun 9, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Fangraphs WAR is favorable to JJ for two reasons.
1. It uses FIP rather than xFIP. JJ’s career includes a half-run deficit between the two. Normalize his HR rate and he’s no longer a 4 win pitcher.
2. It uses UZR, which has Hamilton as a liability with in the field, particularly in the monster ’08 season you referenced. DRS has him as an above average defensive outfielder.
I think Hamilton would be a more valuable player over the next two years regardless of Fangraphs WAR.
...fuck lucky charms
by VivaLosBravos on Jun 9, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
his walks
Are quite worrisome. He has gone from Tom Glavine to Johan Santana with a lot of walks. If he could be in the middle that would be great.
by drumzalicious on Jun 9, 2010 3:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
his walk rate is higher but his strikeout rate is great. If he can regain, some of his control that would great
yea
thats what i meant by somewhere in the middle.
by drumzalicious on Jun 9, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Hamilton isn't a bad idea...
but are the Rangers selling? And we certainly aren’t giving up that much. Maybe JJ alone, but not with Gearrin, Lopez, and another unless they include someone else (Elvis Andrus?).
yikes. There is no way on earth they’d give up Andrus for that package.
...fuck lucky charms
by VivaLosBravos on Jun 9, 2010 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions
They are not trading Andrus.
Stop fantasizing, guys.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jun 9, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
OK, what is rosterbation for if not fantasy?...
When it comes to the real life namesake, are people thinking of their wives/girlfriends or something unobtainable? [looks over shoulder, hears her coming] I mean I of course think of only the wife, but for other guys….
I dunno,
I just prefer slightly more realistic fantasy, I guess.
This is like if a guy, while doing the dirty deed, was thinking about a 7-tentacled alien with the face of Jessica Alba, wearing a diaper, a top-hot, and a monocle.
In other words: not going to happen.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jun 9, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think it's quite as out there as you're saying...
any package that began with Escobar and Jurrjens is pretty strong, and then plus prospects. Like you say above, JJ for Hamilton straight up is decidely in Texas’ favor, so the addition of Yunel and parts plus Andrus on their side kind of evens it out.
But then as you say, I strongly doubt the Rangers are willing to move Andrus, so like with all ‘bation, it’s an exercise in futlity.
Photoshop.
Its happening.
Help me! Some bullies threw my shoes over a telephone wire...with me in them!!
by !Vive la Francoeur! on Jun 9, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Please. Sounds epic.
"If you were going to make a Mount Rushmore of managers, Bobby's one of them."
-Mike Scioscia
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jun 14, 2010 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Remember that time we traded Andrus?
"If you were going to make a Mount Rushmore of managers, Bobby's one of them."
-Mike Scioscia
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jun 14, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
its not that they're selling
Its that they have a great offense and have already said they are open to dealing but it would have to be someone who could have a big impact now.
Their starting rotation could def use a boost and an ace like arm in the front and Gearrin gives them a great arm out of the pen. Our OF could use a boost with a productive bat in CF. Hamilton may be more expensive than JJ now but going forward J.J. will be the one we can’t retain.
Of course all of that would not be JUST for Hamilton a prospect on their side would be included as well
Going forward and removing ourselves of McLouth kind of balances out the salary we would take on. Next year Schafer could take over in CF pushing Hamilton to LF.
Also those talking about injuries. Most of Hamiltons injuries have come from being such a hard player and putting 100% on the field. He just forgets to look at the wall some times.
by drumzalicious on Jun 9, 2010 2:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
McLouth is still under contract for next year...
for a nice chunk of change. “Removing ourselves” of him is much easier said than done right now.
we could
Eat a portion I guess but I’m just more interested in removing him from our line up. Maybe we can get Hamilton and send McLouth to AAA.
by drumzalicious on Jun 9, 2010 3:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I have tried to do this in the past
to little effect, but in the interest of trying to insert an ounce of logic into these discussions…
First we should try to identify teams that are on the verge of selling, ie they are plummeting out of contention. I propose the following list for the mob’s approval:
Brewers
Astros
Pirates
Cubs
Diamondbacks
Mariners
Indians
Royals
White Sox
Orioles
Next, lets look at each roster and see if they have an OF “bats” (I put in parentheses for a reason that will become apparent soon) that MAY be acquirable (these are more guesses):
Brewers: Cory Hart, Jim Edmonds
Astros: Carlos Lee
Pirates: Ryan Church(?), Lastings Milledge
Cubs: Alfonso Soriano, Xavier Nady, Kokuke Fukudome
DBacks; NONE
Mariners: Does Milton Bradley Count? If you are wondering, the answer is NO.
Indians: Austin Kearns (is still playing baseball?)
Royals: NONE
White Sox: Andruw Jones(!)
Orioles: Luke Scott, Corey Patterson
So there’s your more realistic list… ugh.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jun 9, 2010 12:08 PM EDT reply actions
Corey Hart
Would be an interesting idea. Then again, I don’t know if he could play center or what his contract looks like.
"Look out Atlanta. Jason Heyward is going to wow you."
-Chipper
He's certainly had a resurgence in power and such this year.
"If you were going to make a Mount Rushmore of managers, Bobby's one of them."
-Mike Scioscia
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jun 14, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess I’m not all that jazzed about any of the names on this list. What would we do if the Braves actually traded for Rickie Weeks?
"Jason Heyward was a Greek philosopher reincarnated as a baseball player." - Don Sutton
Depends if Chipper's on the field
Cause I guess that would move Prado to 3rd if Chipper’s out… Any thoughts on a Weeks/Hinske platoon in left? Granted, it’d be a position change but one with a track record of relative success with other players. He’s probably still too young to want to change positions though. Ahh, the ’bation.
"If you were going to make a Mount Rushmore of managers, Bobby's one of them."
-Mike Scioscia
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jun 14, 2010 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
David DeJesus isn’t an acquirable OF bat? We’ve been rumored to have interest in him in the past…
Alone in the world of the little CatDog...
by bwellnjonesco on Jun 9, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
sorry
missed him. Didn’t say I was perfect…
by Andy Braves Fan on Jun 9, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he's the only available OF I might want,
given the likely low price we could get him for. Still, he’s not that great.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jun 9, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps.
I’ve soured on Nate’s chances of coming out of the slump, so he could provide what Nate should’ve been, but I wouldn’t give the Royals much for him.
Give them Nate
I think if we add an OF, he needs to be part of the package. Just too much salary to be a bench player, plus we’ve got Melky, Hinske, and Diaz, and someone would have to go to make room for the new guy.
Yeah, I'd like to pawn off Nate
but he’s a definite net negative value, which would have to be covered in prospects. Plus, trading for Nate would be a PR hit for the fans that don’t pay attention to the minors and will only see Nate’s name…kinda like the Braves fans who thought we traded Javy for Melky and some other players not even worth naming.
Yes.
Him.
"If you were going to make a Mount Rushmore of managers, Bobby's one of them."
-Mike Scioscia
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jun 14, 2010 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
i wrote about DeJesus before
If we get an OF bat it would preferably be someone who can play CF. Hinske is doing fine for us in LF is McLouth who’s the problem. With that said DeJesus is terrible in CF
by drumzalicious on Jun 9, 2010 2:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
DeJesus isn’t terrible in center…
He’s atleast better than McLouth out there…
Alone in the world of the little CatDog...
by bwellnjonesco on Jun 9, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
His career stats in center
are similar to McLouth’s (maybe a bit better even), though he hasn’t played much there the past 2 years. I was assuming he would play center, but if he can’t, yeah, I’m not interested.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jun 9, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
when i looked the stats up
on fangraphs it showed him worse in center. i could have been looking at the wrong things tho
by drumzalicious on Jun 9, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, he’s worse in center compared to left, where he’s very good. If that’s what you mean. But the numbers say he should be able to handle center as well as Nate.
I was looking at both DRS and UZR.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jun 9, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
GET DEJESUS
I have been saying this forever:
Current snapshot stats,
2010 STATS
BA HR RBI OBP SLG
.306 4 25 .380 .459
And of all teams possibly willing to take our scraps...
it’s the Royals.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jun 10, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Throw in Jojo and Blanco while we're at it...
since we all know they’ll be joining the team sooner or later.
Touche.
"If you were going to make a Mount Rushmore of managers, Bobby's one of them."
-Mike Scioscia
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jun 14, 2010 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I still submit that the Indians would let Choo go for the right price.
Who would be a godsend. Now, it could cost as much as something like Medlen and one of our top 5 prospects (+a couple of other less developed/thought of prospects), but it’d be something to consider. Medlen, Delgado, then maybe Adam Milligan would probably get it done. Whether I’d do that is in question (depending on the health of Jurrjens), but he’s the piece who could possibly be available that I wouldn’t mind spending for.
Shoo is great
but I’m a bit leery of his South Korean military commitments. (Unless that has been resolved already?) I don’t want to give up all that in trade only to have him be in Korea for 2 prime years.
Besides I don’t think the Indians would trade Shoo. If he is available though, we almost have to look into acquiring him.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jun 9, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
This has not been resolved
I remember reading this offseason that the issue was just starting to come up, and that Choo doesn’t want to do the service. The question is; does he have a choice? I wouldn’t have a clue.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jun 9, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
And for the record
That decision may have far deeper political implications outside the realm of baseball. For that reason alone, I think the Braves should steer clear.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jun 9, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd assume he has a choice...
but if it involves denouncing his Korean citizenship that may not be an acceptable one.
From a few weeks ago…
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/28/sports/baseball/28choo.html
I could be wrong
But I think he’s said that as a last resort he’ll just become an American Citizen
"Look out Atlanta. Jason Heyward is going to wow you."
-Chipper
I'd love to have him if he sheds the military obligations...
Didn’t Chan Ho Park get out of it? Did he have to renounce his citizenship to do so? It seems like Choo has already been denied one attempt to have his service waived if I remember correctly… if that gets taken care off I’ll take the .300/20/80/20 he brings to the table…
"If you were going to make a Mount Rushmore of managers, Bobby's one of them."
-Mike Scioscia
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jun 14, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
The Indians will trade just about anyone...
We are talking about the same team who traded CC Sabathia, Cliff Lee, and Victor Martinez for prospects…
(BTW – this is my first comment, I’ve been lurking for a while now but finally decided to say something. Go Braves!)
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Mother of all RBs.
Hanson, Heyward, Freeman, and McCann for Mauer.
MAKE IT SO, WREN!!!!
"Jason Heyward was a Greek philosopher reincarnated as a baseball player." - Don Sutton
You are an idiot
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
by MBL1 on Jun 9, 2010 2:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Players I'd Like to Add to our OF
Ryan Braun
Andrew McCutchen
Franklin Gutierrez
Justin Upton
Chance of acquiring any of them:
0.00003%
If I took out Gutierrez, it would be 0%
I am not even convinced there is a .00003% chance of getting Gutierrez.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jun 9, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
why not?
I would think there willing to deal
"The only thing I tell them is, 'Look, don't give the other damn team too much credit. It's a baseball game. Just try to win the game.' We had a lot of things go wrong. But my theory is, you got a game every day."
Robert Joe "Bobby" Cox
by Braves Equals Life! on Jun 13, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Why
would they deal a young stud cf who is cost controlled? Willing to deal, yes. Willing to deal young cost controlled players, no.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jun 14, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Heyward Freeman and Hanson could work for Braun . . . .
by drumzalicious on Jun 9, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Jojo + Sammons for Strasburg and Harper!
BEST IDEA EVER!
"I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." Beatrice Hall paraphrasing Voltaire. That being said, it is "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln
by Vance in Sacramento on Jun 9, 2010 6:51 PM EDT reply actions
I LIKE THIS IDEA
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
by MBL1 on Jun 12, 2010 6:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What about these players?
DBacks: Conor Jackson
Marlins: Cody Ross
Nationals: Josh Willingham
Rays: BJ Upton
Rockies: Dexter Fowler
White Sox: Carlos Quentin
I think all these players that could be traded/avaliable if these teams decided to sell. Fowler, Ross, and Jackson are probably not as likely as the others, but you never know.
The Rockies are overloaded with OF
we might be able to pry Fowler away, but it’ll cost a nice bit and we’d need to dump McLouth.
Plus
I’m not sure Fowler will ever hit much. He sure can cover some ground in CF, though.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jun 9, 2010 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Hawpe's a FA at the end of the season
That leaves them pretty much where they’d like to be in the OF for the foreseeable future.
EY Jr. will eventually play second, tho he’s seen a bit of time in OF as well. Once he’s seasoned enough, he’ll replace Barmes.
-C
I didn't include them because
Conor Jackson isn’t hitting enough to be traded. Not that I don’t think he may be good, but I’m not sure the D’Backs would sell so low on him. The Marlins and Nats aren’t moving anything until they are out of contention. Amazingly enough, that may not happen this season. BJ Upton isn’t going anywhere, especially when Crawford is due to leave next season in FA. Carlos Quentin I just missed, but he is a possibility I guess.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jun 10, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Jennings will replace Crawford
when he leaves via free agency. They won’t trade Upton then leave themselves with a gap in their outfield.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jun 15, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Alex Rios
What about Alex Rios? He was brought in to Chicago in a last ditch effort to win with Peavy, and it didn’t work, so he may likely be shopped soon.
He is a little Pricey, but with Chipper likely retiring he would be affordable. Other than an anomaly last year, he has always been worth his salary. He plays amazing defense, and would provide us both moderate power and plus speed. He has posted 3 seasons with a WAR above 3.4 with a high of 5.4 in 2008, and he is also in the middle of his prime.
I for one have always wanted Rios in Atlanta, and if he could be had soon I would love for Frank to jump on it.
60% of the time, it works every time
I wonder if they'd accept McLouth too...
he could at least fill the hole next year, and is a significant savings over Rios both next year and going forward. With the right prospects added, that could be an interesting possibility if we were willing to add that long term salary.
The lineup could then be…
Prado
Heyward
Chipper
Glaus
McCann
Rios
Hinske
Escobar
R/L/S/R/L/R/L/R
I definitely like the balance of that lineup. I do think Rios would be a natural fit for the 2 spot with his speed, but we all know Chipper will never hit anywhere but 2 or 3, so Rios would likely have to be relegated to the 6 spot.
I, however, would make it:
1. Prado
2. Rios
3. Heyward
4. Glaus
5. McCann
6. Chipper
7. Hinske
8 .Escobar
R/R/L/R/L/S/L/R – which is still pretty solid balance.
60% of the time, it works every time
it's possible
I was reading today that Chicago is already looking to make moves and shake things up. I think they were looking more to deal AJ or Buehrle but I think if we made an offer they’d take it.
Good player but he makes alot. Wouldn’t mind getting him but I think Carlos Quentin would be easier to get because he isn’t signed long term.
Quentin would be easier
But it would be because he’s playing awful. Was checking fangraphs earlier and he has the lowest rated defense and I believe the lowest WAR of any outfielder in baseball.
60% of the time, it works every time
really?
I didn’t know he was that bad on defense. Last year he hit 21 hrs in 99 games and had a 36 hr 100 rbi season the year before. I was looking at the offensive those players could provide, didn’t look at defense.
Yep
Quentin is dead last in WAR among outfielders. He is a -1.1, as opposed to Mclouth and Cabrera who are -0.5 and -0.7 respectively.
He had that one really good year, but his AVG and OBP have plummeted the past 2 seasons.
60% of the time, it works every time
This is my first post. I have been paying attention for quite some time, however.
http://www.ussmariner.com/2010/06/10/a-replacement-for-ian-snell/
I have always wanted a guy like Franklin Gutierrez in center for the Braves. The M’s really need some pitching they can control for a while. We have plenty of that up and down the farm. They would never let Franklin go but it is fun to think about.
Interesting article
I didn’t think any other teams fans were even aware Resop existed.
I’ve just never been sold on Gutierrez though. His only REAL plus is his amazing defense. Before this year, his OBPs in his 3 seasons with real playing time were .313, .307 and .339. That’s pretty Francoeur-esque. And in this, one of his better seasons, he isn’t showing much power. So basically he is Jeff Francoeur if Jeff played amazing defense. I don’t know, I also don’t watch him play much so I’m not one to judge.
60% of the time, it works every time
You do realize
Gutierrez had a 6.1 WAR last season, which was good for 12th among all position players.
"Look out Atlanta. Jason Heyward is going to wow you."
-Chipper
if only
I’ll just take a wild guess here
Medlen
Resop
Schafer
by drumzalicious on Jun 11, 2010 2:22 AM EDT up reply actions
How about
Resop, Chavez and McLouth to the D Backs for Chris Young.
D-Backs get youngish pitchers and 1.5 yrs of McLouth. Braves get a RH bat under contract until 2014. ’10=$3.25M, ’11=$5M, ’12=$7M, ’13=$8.5M, ’14=$11M option.
Heyward is pretty good
I thought about adding Young's name
to the list above. But then I realized his contract is just brutal. Of course, if we give up McLouth, that helps us some. But I fail to see why the DBacks would take McLouth in that package. We’d have to replace Chavez with someone much more promising (though I think his ERA would be above-average in their bullpen!).
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jun 11, 2010 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I was going to add him but I saw that he just signed an extension last year. I wouldn’t think they would try to trade right after they lock him up. He’s a good player, first rookie to hit 30 hrs and 25 SB.
McLouth was extended before the ’09 season. I guess the FO thought a long-term deal would garner a better prospect package. Or they just improvise.
...fuck lucky charms
by VivaLosBravos on Jun 12, 2010 3:19 AM EDT up reply actions
what about someone like cody ross or cameron maybin from the marlins? they could use someone like resop to get them to nunez in the 9th; then throw one or two more names in there and voila!
"I have plus plus typing speed. You just have plus typing speed."
I’d absolutely love Cody Ross, but it’ll take a lot more than Poser and another guy or two for him.
"(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper -- You know he's gonna get you, you just never know when or where."
by Scott Coleman on Jun 11, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
but with Stanton up, I think they’d be more willing to part with him, or maybe even more so with Maybin.
"I have plus plus typing speed. You just have plus typing speed."
by GeneParmesan on Jun 11, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
he’d still be better than Nate, and better than getting nothing for Resop.
"I have plus plus typing speed. You just have plus typing speed."
by GeneParmesan on Jun 11, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
But we'd still be paying Nate...
any deal for an OF, I’m hoping we can get them to take Nate in return. Maybe the Marlins wouldn’t mind him as a backup since they’ve been told they need to spend more, and we could throw in a prospect or two.
I’m still liking the Rios idea though. He’s owed a bit, but he’d fit us well, and could slide to LF once Schafer is ready, or stay in CF if Schafer isn’t the answer there. McLouth is a savings to the White Sox compared to Rios. Maybe Rios for McLouth, Jose Ortegano (Ozzie is from Venezuela too), and one or two more prospects like say Hoover, Cody Johnson, etc.
doesn't matter
Maybin for Resop is such a steal for the future I don’t care if he’s worse than Nate in ’10.
...fuck lucky charms
by VivaLosBravos on Jun 12, 2010 3:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't be so sure that Maybin is worth more than Resop going forward.
If Chris has figured it out, I’d rather have him. I don’t like Maybin much at all. I don’t think he’ll ever hit much.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jun 12, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not sure of it either, but if he can learn to walk more and K less like the projection systems believe he will, he could easily be a 5 win OF in a couple of years.
...fuck lucky charms
by VivaLosBravos on Jun 12, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybin’s biggest problem is that he’s allergic to work. He’s the last to show up and the first to leave.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Wow, I didn't know that.
Thanks for the info, CB. It certainly fits in with the fact that he’s underperformed expectations so far in his career.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jun 12, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I saw him play at least 30 times in AA a few years ago and I was never impressed. There were at least 8 guys on that team I’d have taken over Maybin. I’ve seen the same thing the last 2 years in ST when I’ve been there for a few days, last in, first out. He’s talented, but completely unwilling to make himself better. Just another reason to love Jason Heyward.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
#1,741,252,834, I believe
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jun 13, 2010 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Now if only the Braves didn’t make him work so hard without a day off. I’d love for him to get tomorrow off. 2, almost 3 days would be great for him.
"(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper -- You know he's gonna get you, you just never know when or where."
by Scott Coleman on Jun 13, 2010 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions
What would it cost to pry...
Dexter Fowler from the Rockies? Gregor Blanco and two minor league Ps maybe. The Ps would be the main piece, and while I know Blanco has minimal value, they probably want to still have a possible defensive replacement, pinch runner, injury insurance CF considering they’re in a playoff run.
I'm not sure he'd help us this year.
We already have a good-fielding, not-much-hitting CF (Blanco), and another on the DL (McLouth). Fowler’s young and might figure it out someday, but he’s hitting .217 / .327 / .317. I’m pretty sure Blanco could do that, with comparable defense.
One possibility is that Fowler just needs a change of scenery. Maybe he really doesn’t like being 2nd banana to CarGo. And of course, Fowler’s just 24, so he’s got a shot to develop into a very good player. He might be worth acquiring, but I don’t think he’s the answer to our problems this year.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jun 12, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
that's his line this year...
last year as a rookie, it was .266/.363/.406 which is pretty damn good for a guy with his speed, and his career minor league line is .305/.401/.460. Could it just be a sophomore slump, and getting lost in the depth of their very deep pool of talented OFers (Gonzalez, Hawpe, Spilbroughs, Smith, etc)?
It could be
and I’m not debating his potential. I just am not sure we’ll get anything from him this year.
Still, of all the guys mentioned above, Fowler might be the best fit, seeing as how the Rockies have Gonzalez in CF and lots of other OFs. Plus, his low #s might make him easier to acquire.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jun 12, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t forget, Fowler is from Atlanta and is dying to play for the Braves. I think he’s much better than he’s played this year and a move to the Braves would really help him.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Good point.
I had forgotten he was from here. I’m starting to like this idea more and more.
If we could get him without giving up any of our top 4 SP prospects, I’d probably be on board. Hard to say if the Rockies would do that, though.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jun 12, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t hear any talk at all here in Denver about even the notion of Fowler getting traded…not that there isn’t more talk going on than what the average fan hears.
Everything I get seems to be their OF being smith, spillborghs, fowler and CarGo for the foreseeable future. Hawpe will leave via free agency and pick them up a pick of some sort, depending on how highly he’s rated.
Even with Fowler struggling, they’re still pretty confident he can turn it around. He’s experimenting with switch hitting, and most will use that as the reason for his struggles. He’s back down to AAA to work on it at the moment.
-C
Even without Hawpe,
that still leaves them with 4 OFs, though. Why wouldn’t they want to trade one of those 4? Do they not believe that Smith or Spilborghs are starters? If they don’t, I’d be happy to take one (preferably Smith).
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jun 13, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
They're cheap.
Only Spillborghs has reached arbitration, and he signed a two-year deal at 1.3 million. They’re all still extremely affordable.
In a couple years, sure it makes sense to move one of them. But they firmly believe they’ll improve this year, probably next, and they’ll be more valuable pieces in the future than they are now.
Sure, it could come to backfire on them should one fizzle out. But playing from a position of depth isn’t going to drastically hinder them. They can move them around, give players adequate rest, etc., without sacrificing anything from day-to-day.
All-in-all, I just think the feeling is that it’s too soon to move any one of them.
-C
Top prospects. They are still pretty high on him
by blitzerlover on Jun 12, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure. We could use a couple.
Their names are Mike Dunn, and eventually Scott Proctor. (Or Chris Resop)
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jun 12, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
where is Scott Proctor?
I thought the plan was to bring up around this time but I haven’t heard anything about him in the minors for a while.
Proctor got sent from Orlando to MB last week, I guess he’ll work a little at MB before jumping to AAA to get ready.
Heyward is pretty good
And if he is, we just got crazy depth back...
with him, Resop, and Jurrjens on the hill (and then Saito was said to not be much more than 15 days, if not ready to come back as soon as possible). Lessens the load on Moylan and others.
yea
then he was terrible and went back to extended st
by drumzalicious on Jun 13, 2010 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Said this in the Game Thread
I believe we should keep Medlen in the rotation and trade Kawakami. If Resop is really as good as he has been in the Minors he will be able to adequately fill Medlen’s shoes in the pen and if Medlen gets shut down towards the end of the season he can step up and be the 5th starter.
Lowe is truly unmoveable with his contract leaving Kawakami the odd man out. Im not saying this because he is 0-8 or anything im just speaking about who would be the easiest to move. He has a fairly team friendly contract and if we had to eat some of it then we would surely be able to get a better return.
Couple of possible targets:
Dodgers
Tigers
Cardinals
If we could some how get Ryan Ludwick that would be amazing but I doubt it.
I don't like the idea of trading any pitching at this point
Can a team ever really have too much pitching?
by Andy Braves Fan on Jun 14, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
If Ellsbury is available...
maybe JJ for him in the offseason?
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/06/cafardos-latest-strasburg-red-sox-brewers-mariners.html
interesting thought
for the offseason.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jun 14, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
what about carlos lee for someone like dlowe?
similar albatross contracts; the lastro’s could use another decent starter; his defense would be fun to watch…
"I have plus plus typing speed. You just have plus typing speed."
I think I speak for most of us when I say
NO, PLEASE GOD NO.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jun 14, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think you’re speaking for most. I think you’re speaking for damn near all of us.
That’s a Steve Phillips-level trade right there.
"Jason Heyward was a Greek philosopher reincarnated as a baseball player." - Don Sutton
instead of being a Steve Phillips level trade, i like to think of it as being the kind of trade that would be a blockbuster in MVP Baseball 2005. it’s like on par with trading Jon Dowd for 21 year old Zach Greinke.
"I have plus plus typing speed. You just have plus typing speed."
by GeneParmesan on Jun 14, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Not really the same thing at all.
"Jason Heyward was a Greek philosopher reincarnated as a baseball player." - Don Sutton
they’re similar in that they would both be blockbuster trades in MVP Baseball 2005.
"I have plus plus typing speed. You just have plus typing speed."
by GeneParmesan on Jun 15, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Lee's deal is longer and larger than Lowe...
so it’s a worse albatross contract. Plus he has a no trade he’s said multiple he won’t waive.
i'm not saying, but i'm just saying:
he’s four years into a six year, $100 million deal right? so at this point the contracts sort of match up. you’d have to think that it wouldn’t take much to convince the astros, and i would think that lee would at least think about it.
i’m all for trading for someone more athletic and less doughy, or even giving the spot to blanco or whatever, but The Horse wouldn’t be completely useless.
"I have plus plus typing speed. You just have plus typing speed."
by GeneParmesan on Jun 14, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
After this year...
Lowe has two years remaining at $15m apiece. Lee has the same time remaining, but at $18.5m apiece. As seen by Troy Glaus, we can do a lot with that $3.5m. I think if the FO was moving Lowe, they want to reduce salary, not increase it. So adding Lee from that standpoint becomes a detriment to future deals same as Lowe would be, if not more so. And while Lee has bounced back this past month to some level of respectability, he was so horrible to start the year I have more faith that Lowe can sustain his current level of productivity better than Lee.
but lee is usually a slow starter. plus, eating the $3.5 million is a better option than, say, Vernon Wells or Alex Rios who, granted, are both having better years, but are still Park Place/Boardwalk properties.
"I have plus plus typing speed. You just have plus typing speed."
by GeneParmesan on Jun 14, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I like the cut of your jib...
Let’s continue to throw good money after bad continually!! No matter what, someone out there will have a worse contract, so let’s fucking dive in head-first.
-C
wait, i'm confused...
because first it seemed like you liked the cut of my jib.
then it seemed like you didn’t.
i’m confused about where the cut of my jib stands.
"I have plus plus typing speed. You just have plus typing speed."
by GeneParmesan on Jun 14, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe that's a negative thing
I’m not sure I’d take it as a compliment. I don’t think I have a jib. Would I know if I did?
...fuck lucky charms
by VivaLosBravos on Jun 15, 2010 4:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't even want Lee
even if his salary were paid entirely by the Astros. He is not a great hitter and a terrible fielder. We have better players already on the roster.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jun 14, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
i’m not necessarily sure if we have better outfielders on the roster. i mean, blanco’s good, and hinske is good, but if we’re talking about trying to get rid of a bad contract, i assume we would have to take on another bad contract in return. i’d rather than bad contract be an outfielder, and preferably one that can hit for some power.
"I have plus plus typing speed. You just have plus typing speed."
by GeneParmesan on Jun 14, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Better OFs on our roster (including contracts):
Heyward, Hinske, Cabrera, Diaz, and probably McLouth, too. Why on earth would you be so desperate to get rid of Lowe’s contract that you would take on an even worse contract for a less useful player? At least Lowe gives us innings, and sometimes good ones. He was actually nearly worth his salary even last year, when he underperformed. There is approximately a 0% chance that Lee will ever be worth his salary during his current contract.
The answer to all of this is to just keep Lowe. Lee is poison to good baseball.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jun 14, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
alex rios apologist here
rios makes less than lee (12M-12.5M) albeit for more years than carlos lee (rios is locked up until 2014 with a 2015 option). i’d rather have rios than lee: he makes less, has way better defense, is at a premium position at CF, has more speed, and hits for a better average.
i’d like alex rios too, but i think the white sox would want something more than brent lillibridge for him.
"I have plus plus typing speed. You just have plus typing speed."
by GeneParmesan on Jun 14, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
How about Santos Rodriguez?
...fuck lucky charms
by VivaLosBravos on Jun 15, 2010 4:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Compared to Carlos Lee,
nearly every player in baseball looks good.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jun 14, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
I thought someone mentioned Brad Hawpe earlier…
...fuck lucky charms
by VivaLosBravos on Jun 15, 2010 4:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Woah now
All of you are crazy.
El Caballo isn’t great, and is having a terrible year. But we are talking about a guy who has put up a .305/.354/.524 over the past 3 years with 86 HRs. He isn’t the player he used to be at this point, but I wouldn’t hate on him that much. His contract is bad, and I’m not sure a contract swap with Lowe out the door would be great, but Lee isn’t a terrible ballplayer. I wouldn’t be surprised at all with a .280//340/.500 slash line for him at the end of the year. If he does that in full time duty with no serious platoon split, that would make him better than Nate, Hinske, and Melky.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jun 15, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
This.
"I have plus plus typing speed. You just have plus typing speed."
by GeneParmesan on Jun 15, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
but he is declining...
and I think the chances of Lowe being worth his deal next year and in 2012 is a lot better than Lee being worth his.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jun 15, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I've got 3 words for you:
Over the hill.
Look at his stat lines the past 3 years and tell me you don’t see aging’s nasty effects at work:
2008 (Age 32 season): .314 / .368 / .569, 3.9 WAR
2009 (Age 33 season): .300 / .343 / .489, 2.1 WAR
2010 (Age 34 season): .226 / .263 / .397, -0.9 WAR
Now, granted, his poor 2010 BABIP skews his numbers some; he’s probably more like a .265 / .300 / .440 player right now. But, his defense is TERRIBLE, and he has a .276 wOBA this year against right-handed pitchers, meaning that, at best, he’d be a Matt-Diaz-type platoon starter vs. lefties. Combine that with the fact that he’s only going to get worse the next 2 seasons, and you have one of the worst values in all of baseball.
Face it, folks. The Carlos Lee you know isn’t coming back (and even the original Carlos Lee probably wasn’t worth what his contract is paying him). I can’t believe we’re even having this conversation.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jun 15, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I am not advocating a trade
nor was I. Just saying Lee isn’t dead weight.
And since we are playing this game, lets look at DLowe:
2008 (age 36!): 3.35xFIP, 1.13WHIP, 3.27K/BB, 4.9WAR
2009 (age 37!): 4.19xFIP, 1.52WHIP, 1.76K/BB, 2.7WAR
2010 (age 38!): 4.23xFIP, 1.43WHIP, 1.37K/BB, 1.0WAR
Face it folks, DLowe is older, pitchers are generally more fragile, and all the numbers indicate extreme decline. 2010 has been a decent season for Lowe so far, but don’t read it as a resurgence, it is more likely the last gasp of a falling star.
The fact is that neither DLowe or El Caballo are going to perform to their contracts.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jun 15, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Lee is dead weight
Lowe was better 2 years ago, better last year, and has been better this year. He may be declining, but he’s still useful. Lee is not.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jun 15, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Thus far for the month of June
he is hitting .300/.345/.645. His current BABIP is .217 (career avg. .288). That will put an extreme damper on his numbers. There is plenty of evidence that he is probably not much worse than the player he was last year.
I will never say that he was ever worth the money, or that he will live up to his ridiculous contract. But Derek Lowe won’t either is my point. If you want to call Lee dead weight, sure. But then you have to admit that DLowe probably is as well.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jun 15, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
very true
again, never said that the Braves should make the deal. At all. Just trying to put Lee in perspective.
When Lee’s contract is over he will be 36. Not young, but not ancient, even in baseball years. Chipper won a batting title at 36 as I recall, and before anyone begins no I am not making a comparison, just a point. Lowe will be 40 when his contract ends. The track record for 40 year old pitchers isn’t very good.
If I were a GM and I Had to take 1 of the 2 in free agency and the cost was the same, I think there is an argument to be made that Lee would be the better value pick. That is all I am saying.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jun 15, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Think about Lee's body type.
Hitters like him—huge, lumbering guys—age very early. I’ll bet you 50 bucks right now that Lowe outperforms Lee in 2012. He is older, but his skill set (sinkerball pitcher) historically ages much better. In fact, I would not be surprised if Lowe pitches decently into his 40s. Lee will be lucky if he’s not out of baseball after his contract is up.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jun 15, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Not necessarily
If he were a 3 true outcomes type of hitter in his career, than yes, those guys age poorly. And Lee was not always huge and lumbering. He used to steal 15 or so bases a season. Lee has gained weight, but so do a lot of players as they age. If he keeps up the pace he has been at for the month of June, which isn’t a stretch, he will have had a fine year.
Lowe may do OK as a sinkerball pitcher. But riddle me this; Lowe’s changeup has had a negative value (around -2) for the past 2 seasons and suddenly goes to a +1. In general, all of his pitch values continue to drop. How much hope do you have for this guy? I know traditionally sinkerballers age better, but not all of them. Lowe is equally likely to be done after his contract ends.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jun 16, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Lowe is not dead weight.
He’s on pace for ~2.5 WAR. That is definitively NOT dead weight. That is above average.
Lee has a lot of work to do just to get back to replacement level. He should do it, but he won’t be able to be much above 0 WAR by the end of the year. 0 WAR is dead weight.
These two guys are not the same AT ALL. The only thing they have in common is that they are signed to bad contracts.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jun 15, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Lee had 2 bad months
if he goes on a tear, which he is perfectly capable of, he could end up with a fine year. Look at his June numbers.
Not saying that he will, but I dont’ think Lee is the player he was in April and May either. Meanwhile guys like Delgado and Ortiz have pulled this same move and had resurgent second halves later in their careers. Lee might be following that same pattern.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jun 16, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
To be clear...
I said Hawpe was going to be a free agent, not that I wanted him to be a Brave.
Although I’d take Hawpe over Lee at this point without a second guess. Better numbers this season with half the salary.
-C
What
would it take to get Alex Gordon? Resop and who else? He can play a little LF until Chipper’s gone and then take over at the hot corner.
A box of baseballs at this point – okay, maybe two. Even the Royals version of Talking Chop is speaking of him kinda like we do of Nate: “who can we get for him while he’s still got some value at all?”. I’m being a little facetious here, but Alex Gordon is a definite “do not want” until he proves he’s an everyday major leaguer who can stay injury free.
Witness this:
2008: .260/.351/.783 (134 games)
2009: .232/.324/.703 (49 games)
2010: .194/.342/.665 (12 games – none since May 1 – was sent down)
All that said, he IS hitting with a 1.128 OPS in Omaha (that’s not the college world series – it’s the Royals AAA club). But if the Royals refuse to call him up because they “have enough” outfielders (source: Ned Yost), then all other teams oughta taka a long look. He might be a 4A kinda guy.
"I don't think there's any greater free-swinger in the game than Jeff Francoeur" - Tim McCarver, 4/17/2010
speaking of 4A:
what about brandon wood? he seems to me to be just the kind of scrapheap acquisition that could pan out in a braves uni.
"I have plus plus typing speed. You just have plus typing speed."
by GeneParmesan on Jun 15, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
or kevin kouzmanoff. he’s actually having a pretty good year, and he plays stellar defense, if i remember correctly.
"I have plus plus typing speed. You just have plus typing speed."
by GeneParmesan on Jun 15, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh.
Kouzmanoff doesn’t walk, which makes him sub-par offensively at 3B. His D is good, but not great. He’d be a good bench guy for us, but also pretty redundant (until Chipper retires).
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jun 15, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
A box of baseballs at this point – okay, maybe two.
If this was true he would already be on another team
Even the Royals version of Talking Chop is speaking of him kinda like we do of Nate: "who can we get for him while he’s still got some value at all?".
I read RoyalsReview everyday. They him want to play every day in the bigs.
His first two years he was an average (2 WAR) player. In 09 he was hurt. In 10 Dayton, in his infinite wisdom, decided to send him down and make him an outfielder for some reason.
With crappy overpaid vets of course!
by TheBravestWay To Block A Decent Prospect on Jun 16, 2010 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I already indicated I was being a bit facetious with the point about the baseballs, but the bottom line for me is that if the lowly Royals can’t find a spot for Alex Gordon in the major leagues, then I’m hard-pressed to figure why we want him. For whatever reason, Royals management is down on him, and was down on his 3rd base play. I don’t know why. I don’t see him everyday. But I have a bad feel specifically because of their handling of him.
Change of scenery? sigh Well, that only works if the Royals would accept OUR “needs a change” guy: Nate. But I still don’t know where Gordon would play in the field for us. Especially after MattyD returns.
"I don't think there's any greater free-swinger in the game than Jeff Francoeur" - Tim McCarver, 4/17/2010
yeah
the change of scenery is pretty cliche… However, he has a lot of pressure on him in KC being a high draft pick and the supposed next George Brett. Of course, replacing Chipper would be high expectations as well. If nothing else, he adds youth and potential to 3B/LF. If we get him for next to nothing, there’s not much of a loss. Maybe Resop and Cody Johnson for Al Gordo?
The amount of pressure put on him was HUGE. He’s from Lincoln, Neb., which is just a few hours down the road from KC. If there’s a team that claims a majority of fans in that area, it’d be the Royals.
He always played well in the spotlight at Nebraska, which makes his wilting under the pressure at KC a bit unusual. But that sort of thing can really wear upon a person…hometown hero in high school, college and then the pros.
As cliche as the change of scenery situation is, if it applies to anyone, it would apply to him. He’s been playing in front of the same people with increasingly greater expectations since he was in his early teens.
His surrounding team was good enough to help him live up to all those expectations until he reached KC, so if he were to fail under the spotlight, it makes sense for it to occur there.
Let’s not forget that he started in AA (in Omaha, all of 45 minutes from Lincoln) and only played a single season there before making the team the following year. His ascension to the pros was faster than Strasburg’s, for whatever that’s worth.
If a reasonable deal could be worked out, I’d absolutely love to see him in a Braves uniform. He was without a doubt the best baseball player I had the opportunity to watch regularly during my days as a small-town sportswriter in Nebraska.
-C
Thats what I'm saying
In my opinion, the Royals have obviously soured on him if they “have enough outfielders” and refuse to call up a guy who’s been on base 33 games in a row
"Look out Atlanta. Jason Heyward is going to wow you."
-Chipper
Bourn or Pence of the Astros should be on our radar imo. We could certainly use an improvement in CF because while Melky has been hitting lately he is still not a strong option in any starting lineup and Nate is a lost cause at this point it appears.
Bourn would slide into the leadoff role and steal bases in front of Heyward, Glaus, McCann, etc. He also plays superb defense in CF. Pence, though he hasn’t been in center for a few years, could play the position still im sure. He measured out as an average defender in CF during his rookie campaign, and though he isn’t a speedster, he provides much better power. He could be moved off center to left field next season and Schafer could step into CF, whereas with Bourn we could either include Schafer in the trade or move him to LF and have the most outstanding OF defense in baseball.
I’d imagine a package built around Mike Minor and JJ Hoover along with some other lesser names would capture the stros’ attention. Our pitching depth in the minors and majors could offset the loss of these two and with either bourn or pence, our lineup becomes even more solid and solidifies our position as division leader
by McCann's the Man on Jun 14, 2010 11:16 PM EDT reply actions
Why would they get rid of two cost control players if they are trying to rebuild?
Houston is rebuilding. They are trying to get rid of big contracts (Oswalt and Berkman) while getting top prospects. You build teams around players like Bourn and Pence. Young and cost controlled players that are good and can help the team win. You don’t trade them unless someone offers a really good package of prospects. I like the idea of getting Bourn or Pence but we would be giving up a lot.
both Bourn and Pence are 27 and while maybe for some other rebuilding teams that’s still young enough to keep around for Houston I don’t imagine it is. The Astros quite simply have very little to offer in their minor league system and Berkman and Oswalt are not going to return top prospects with their age and contracts. They won’t be competing for the next 5 years minimum and by that time both Pence and Bourn will be in decline, they’d be much better served maxing out return now, otherwise they’ll simply be stuck in mediocrity for the present and future.
by McCann's the Man on Jun 15, 2010 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
The Astros have never been afraid to spend money in free agency...
When things go south, they offer their veterans to teams in need. I don’t like their model, but I understand it. It’s a quick patch instead of a full rebuild…I’ve yet to see them trade away their young, cheaper talent.
-C
Pence terrifies me
I’d be more comfortable going after Born.
...fuck lucky charms
by VivaLosBravos on Jun 15, 2010 5:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Why Lowe?
People always throw out Derrick Lowe’s name. Why? The guy has been pitching well of late, he’s too expensive to move, and he’s a great middle of the rotation guy (even though we overpaid for him).
If we are making deals, I certainly think it will be with minor leaguers. Lowe is a guy you trade when you are a losing team to a contending team, not the other way around. Teams that the Braves are going to be dealing with are looking for young pitching, not overpaid starters in the twilight of their careers.
People want to trade Lowe
as I said before, I don’t see his good pitching of late as a resurgence, but a last gasp. Hope he proves me wrong.
You said it though, he’s too expensive to move so any deal involving him is a false hope.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jun 16, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
ewww…
"I have plus plus typing speed. You just have plus typing speed."
by GeneParmesan on Jun 15, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
last year of his deal...
and could possibly be a Type B free agent perhaps (no clue where he’d be on that). And while he stunk lasst year, this year he’s showing more power (13 HR) and a line of .263/.335/.488, and an ops+ of 121. He plays RF for them, so you’d assume at least decent in LF, and would be able to platoon with Hinske when everyone is healthy, or allow Hinske to cover 1B, 3B, and RF if someone needs a day off, plus allowing Melky to become the full time CF until/if McLouth gets fixed.
He was worth -1.8 WAR last year
and minus 0.1 WAR the year before. The somewhat decent hitting he’s done this year looks flukey in comparison.
Thoughts
The Braves may not make a lot of noise at the deadline, despite being in contention
Possible Needs
1) Left field help: Of course, this issue is apparently solved with Hinske, bearer of the two sacred rings, from whom all blessings blow over. The only thing that might help is a right-handed platoon partner, but we’ve already got someone to fill that spot. When Matt Diaz gets off the DL, we’re likely very set in the OF corners.
2) Centerfield: Yes, McLouth has been awful, and we’re actually below replacement from the CF spot this year. That said, we first need to diagnose what’s going on with Nate before we get his replacement, since he was projected to be really good this year. Guys with decent power coming into their age 28 season should be expected to put up great numbers. Zips still thinks Nate is going to put up a .340 wOBA for the remainder of the season.
What’s wrong with Nate? 3 things are apparent. The first is BABIP, which sits at .221, nearly 60 points below his career average, and is entirely luck. The second in the increased K rate. The third is the power decline. In regards to the K-rate, there’s not a lot there to look at. His plate discipline numbers are right in line with his career average-he’s swinging at approximately the same percentage of balls in the zone and the same percentage outside of the zone-his overall swing percentage is just slightly down. His contact % is up. He’s taking slightly fewer called strikes than in previous years. It’s a bit of mystery why he’s putting up a career high K-rate with this data. The ONLY thing that begins to correlate with this is that’s he posting a career high % of strikes fouled off-he’s getting more strikes called because of foul balls.
So Despite the fact that Nate has been awful, we should probably expect a correction in both K% and BABIP. The third part, ISO, is a bit trickier. His batted ball data is, again, right in line with career averages-similar LD%, GB%, and FB%. The only thing that explains his decline in ISO is his HR/FB%. This is a career low at 5.5%, or about half what you expect giving his previous data. Again, this is likely anomalous, since he’s 28 years old, and generally 28 year old hitters peak in terms of power. Maybe he’s been injured, which is a contributing factor, but you should expect this to improve.
So do we just gamble on McLouth for the rest of the season? At the very least, we need to wait until right up to the deadline to see if some of these issues which should self-correct end up doing so. With Melky warming up, there’s no need to shake the boat right now.
Who might we look at the deadline? Nyjer Morgan is really struggling this season. Chris Young might be too expensive. Vernon Wells is definitely too expensive. Mike Cameron might not be on the trading block. In Milwaukee, Jim Edmonds would be a really uninspiring add. Alex Rios might be too expensive, especially considering our long-term plans involving Jordan Schafer and the length of McLouth’s contract. We’re not getting Marlon Byrd, Franklin Gutierrez, Andrew McCutchen, Colby Rasmus, or Austin Jackson. If the Padres stay in contention, we’re not getting much from them, and their options really are uninspring with the bat (Tony Gwynn Jr. Jerry Hairston).
So I’m thinking it’s really down to Michael Bourn and, if the Marlins fall out, Cody Ross. I really wouldn’t mind Angel Pagan, but good luck convincing the Mets that they’re sellers at the deadline. For Cody Ross, we definitely need to wait quite a while, until the Marlins are convinced to pack in their season and start selling off bits. For Michael Bourn, we need to be willing to part with decent prospects. That organization is so defunct right now that they have no hope in competing this year, next year, and 2012 is looking pretty slim too. So tget Bourn, we might be looking at giving away Randall Delgado and someone like RSF or Milligan. Is that reasonable?
3) Prospects: The Braves don’t really need to replenish the system right now since we’re flush with pitching prospects, but as soon as JJ is ready, we will have 7 legit major league starts on the team. We’ll probably be looking to deal JJ, KK, or Resop (or some combination) at the deadline. Teams looking for ML-Ready starters aren’t teams that are selling off the kind of guy that step in and start in CF for us-those teams want to give away prospects so they can compete now. This is the kind of deal which is most likely at the deadline-we may actually look more like sellers than buyers, since we’ll be giving away ML calibre talent to get some prospects.
Obviously, the system has a few needs. We took a ton of infielders in the draft, but we can always use more depth in the middle infield, and we can certainly use some more legit OF prospects. Cody Johnson is really struggling, and Adam Milligan might be just Cody Johnson 2.0. We’ll be hoping that, in the coming years, we’ll find a big bat to take over in LF. So, at the deadline, we might come away with nothing more than a decent LF prospect.
I think you’re totally right about McLouth, but even if the BABIP, HR/FB and K rate regress to his career averages, he’s still possibly the worst hitter in our lineup, to say nothing of his poor range and noodle arm.
Note also the decline in speed score from 2007: 7.8, 6.7, 5.3, 3.7
His baserunning has fallen off and that’s not just fewer steals as a function of OBP, apparently.
...fuck lucky charms
by VivaLosBravos on Jun 15, 2010 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
it looks like each aspect of Nate's game is a mess right now
...fuck lucky charms
by VivaLosBravos on Jun 15, 2010 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe the collision with Heyward will knock something loose…
Anways, does anyone think that we can trade McLouth with his contract, without getting another bad contract back? I ask b/c I don’t really see us trading for a CF and leaving McClouth on the bench will Melky on the bench also.
McLouth's contract really isn't bad.
In fact, when he was raking in Pittsburgh, it looked like a friggin steal. He’s only making $4.5 million this year, which seems awful since he’s struggling, but it’s a great deal overall, and next year he only makes $6.5 million. The team option for 2012 is a bit steep, at $10.65 with a $1.5 buyout, but it’s not a big deal.
His babip has nothing to do with luck...
it has to do with a lot of pop ups and weak grounders.
And no, Delgado and another for Bourn is bad imo, and Rios could fit in LF next to Schafer.
Escobar
Prado
Heyward
McCann
Rios
Freeman
3B
Schafer
it has to do with a lot of pop ups and weak grounders
You made that up. I’ll prefer batted ball data to your observations. Regardless, he shouldn’t be starting.
...fuck lucky charms
by VivaLosBravos on Jun 15, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
if you think McLouth's babip is due entirely to luck...
you haven’t watched him hit
by Mr. Sanchez on Jun 15, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
thank you…which is why I hate babip for the most part. If you watch him bat night in and night out, he’s not getting unlucky, he just sucks out there.
We have traded away great players for less than nothing and let Texierra walk away, and much much more so pray that Hayward is sent from God and that his energy can ignite the veterans and cause the younger players to hustle more and play winning baseball...
I think you hate BABIP because when you blindly point at a player’s struggles, the luck element gets thrown in your face often by those of us who are a bit more patient with player who are struggling and/or unlucky, and want to look just a little bit deeper into the problems.
Did you read my examination of this BABIP? His Line Drive rate is stable with his career average, as is his Ground Ball rate, and his Fly Ball rate. Those are the major components in what affects BABIP, along with speed, which we know that Nate has in ample supply.
Yes, he’s hitting a few more pop-ups than in previous years, but it’s not enough to account for what’s going on with his numbers. Even if he’s having problems with his swing, it’s a correctable issue since he’s spent three years as a productive hitter and has enough talent to eventually compensate. We’re more likely to find a positive solution for CF by waiting on McLouth than we are in the trade market.
I think I hate babip because, yes, a lot of people use it as the only justification for a players below average numbers. You can’t tell me watching Nate that he’s been unlucky. His ground balls aren’t usually hard hit ground balls which would lower his babip as well. He is not making solid contact on his Flyballs and groundballs regardless of what his LD% is.
We have traded away great players for less than nothing and let Texierra walk away, and much much more so pray that Hayward is sent from God and that his energy can ignite the veterans and cause the younger players to hustle more and play winning baseball...
He is not making solid contact on his Flyballs and groundballs regardless of what his LD% is.
A fly ball or a ground ball are always caused by not making solid contact and instead by hitting the ball with the top or bottom curve of the bat. Not even Pujols makes solid contact on his groundballs because its by definition impossible. A LD% is very useful because when you square a ball up and hit it with ‘solid contact’ then you get a line drive.
Now McLouth’s K% is up over 25% and that is more of a problem than his ability to hit the ball solidly. He is still walking more than he ever has so if he can get his Ks under control (not confident he will) then he will revert back to the same very productive centerfielder we traded for.
Jason Heyward wins at baseball.
Thank you for taking that line literally, but we all know the difference between a sharply hit groundball and a weak 3U and a lazy fly and a ball that is driven to the track, that is the real point I was trying to make. So even if his babip is normal he’s still hitting what? .200? .210? I’m sorry I’m not the most statistically informative poster here, but when I watch Nate McLouth every night, which I do, his swing looks terrible and its obviously not producing results.
We have traded away great players for less than nothing and let Texierra walk away, and much much more so pray that Hayward is sent from God and that his energy can ignite the veterans and cause the younger players to hustle more and play winning baseball...
how is it determined...
between grounder, line drive, and fly ball. With some I’d assume are obvious, but who makes the call on borderline hits?
There was an article about that recently
that it is judged by the scorer, or by whatever scout/stat guy is watching. What is interesting is that it doesn’t just matter who is watching, but from where. The article showed that the angle the person is viewing from makes a significant difference. Not saying that these stats are wrong or useless as a result, I am a stat guy myself generally, but at least this is something to consider.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jun 18, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Very true about how where you sit changes your perspective. The closer you are to field level the more true things are, but once you get higher up, and further away, everything gets skewed.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
What about Corey Hart?
Could play left field and provide more power. He’s been hot this year and in his left year of his contract
Is it his last year
I thought he had one more, but I could well be wrong. If that is the case, the Brewers might be more interested in moving him. Thing is, I am not sure I trust him to keep these numbers up.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jun 16, 2010 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Nick Markakis anyone?
I can dream, can’t I?
"Look out Atlanta. Jason Heyward is going to wow you."
-Chipper
we can all dream
but reality eventually has to kick in.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jun 16, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Markakis?
please God no. He’s the 36th best outfielder…….
…..in the AL. He hasn’t been good in 2 years.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jun 18, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
wow
really? I would love to have Markakis.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jun 18, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s 26, has been very productive offensively in his first 4 seasons, and is a plus defender
"Look out Atlanta. Jason Heyward is going to wow you."
-Chipper
These things you say
they are both concise and correct.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jun 18, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
honestly
Infante would be better to have in LF than Markakis (look at their stats):
.302/.391/.430 this year
and Infante:
.315/.351/.392
PLUS, the Orioles would want a TON for him. He’s the face of their franchise until Weiters is actually ready.
Now, Alex Gordon would be very nice.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jun 21, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re kidding right? Markakis’ OPS is 80 points higher. That’s a huge amount, especially considering he’s done it in twice as many at bats, which means he can sustain that production. Infante has never had a season as productive as any season Markakis has had. There’s no scenario where Infante’s production is nearly the same as Markakis’.
Now I completely agree the Orioles wouldn’t trade him, not only because he’s a good player but because he’s Greek and so is Peter Angelos. Never gonna happen.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Yeah
Love Infante and all, but Markakis is better in every way.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jun 22, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Along the Alex Gordon line of thought...
with Pedro Alvarez in Pittsburgh, would anyone be surprised if we signed Andy LaRoche to a cheap deal over the winter and throw him into the mix with Donnell Linares and any other FAs we acquire to battle it out as Chipper’s replacement? I doubt we trade for him, but I can easily see us signing him to a cheap or minor league deal over the winter.
Why would they get rid of LaRoche? Is he going to be arbitration eligible? Cause otherwise they’d just keep him on the bench. And also, why would we want him? He’s not that good.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
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Because Alvarez is taking his job.
Next season will be his first time in arb I believe.
Because we need a 3B and he might be able to help. Doubtful, but for depth and competition, it was just a thought.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jun 16, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
If he’s eligible for arbitration then yeah, they’d get rid of him, but if not even with Alvarez he’s worth keeping. Still, there have to be a decent amount of 3B options that are better.
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Doesn’t seem like it. I think he’s done after this year.
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That seems to be the way that he is leaning at least.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jun 16, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s leaning towards it but I think if he hits really well for the rest of the year and is healthy, I think he will play another year.
Do you honestly see him staying healthy? I’m a glass half full guy myself, but even i don’t expect that to happen.
"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson
His health is the part that concerns me
If he’s healthy, I have no doubt that his bat his going to heat up. Him being healthy for the rest of the year is a question
I think his health would have to be “significantly worse” than it has been, which sets the bar pretty low, I know.
I’d just like to see him go back making solid contact like he did in ’08 when he won the batting title. His lack of power is really showing, but if he were hitting .340, as he is capable of doing, the lack of power becomes less important.
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backwards in a mirror." ~George Carlin
by FineHamAbounds on Jun 18, 2010 3:35 AM EDT up reply actions
With such a strong young core...
any trades also need to keep an eye on next year. Meaning while we’re likely to try and improve for the last year of our three Hall of Famers (Bobby, Chipper, Wagner), I doubt we make a move that negatively impacts the future as well.
So next year, assuming Chipper and Wagner retire we’ve got
C—McCann ($6.5)
1B—Freeman ($0.5)
2B—Prado (1st arb year, maybe $2-3m max)
3B—???
SS—Escobar (see Prado)
RF—Heyward ($0.5)
CF—Schafer? ($0.5)
LF—McLouth ($6.5)
Bench—Infante ($2.5)
Bench—Cabrera/Diaz (both arb eligible around $3-5)
Bench—
Becnh—
Bench—
SP—Hudson ($9)
SP—Hanson ($0.5)
SP—Lowe ($15)
SP—KK ($6.67)
SP—JJ (1st arb year, likely $2-3)
RP—Medlen ($0.5)
RP—Moylan (arb eligible, $2-3)
RP—Venters ($0.5)
RP—Kimbrel ($0.5)
RP—Saito (arb eligible, $3-5)
RP—EOF (arb eligible $1-2)
RP—Chavez/Dunn/etc ($0.5)
So if we offer arbitration to everyone, that gives us a payroll starting around $70m, leaving 10-20 for free agents. Some of that can be saved by trading some guys or not offering arbitration and replacing them with younger, cheaper players like say EOF/Dunn, JJ or KK replaced by Minor. We don’t really need any added pitching. Maybe a closer, but it appears the rest of the staff can easily be filled internally. The lineup is the big questions for Wren to answer between now and next spring: McLouth kept around? Keep Cabrera or Diaz or both? Are Freeman and Schafer ready? And then 3B, possibly LF, and a bench to round out (add 1B and CF if FF or JS aren’t deemed ready). I think with what we have money wise, we can get Adrian Beltre for 3rd (if it’s not addressed in say a trade of JJ opening room in the rotation for a guy like Minor or Teheran), and after that enough to put together a solid bench around Infante and I’d hope Melky to have the luxury of depth as we had this year.
I think Venters will be closing for us next year assuming Wagner retires. And what about Glaus? Is it true that he can’t play 3rd cause of his shoulder?
"Look out Atlanta. Jason Heyward is going to wow you."
-Chipper
if those 7 are in our bullpen...
I’d think Saito would be the primary closer, being that he’s the 8th inning guy now and was a successful closer before.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jun 18, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Did Saito sign a two year deal?
I could be wrong, but I thought it was one.
"Look out Atlanta. Jason Heyward is going to wow you."
-Chipper
I doubt Venters closes. It would be nice but it probably won’t happen. Of the current guys Moylan would probably be most likely to get a chance to do it. And if they were gonna go with a young guy, Kimbrel might be the best choice.
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Beltre wants TOO much money for 2-3 years.
why do that?
why not move Prado to 3B and trade for a 2B? Perhaps trade Minor for T. Frazier (Reds 2B prospect) who is blocked by Brandon Phillips.
After that, offer Crawford a 6 year, 80 million dollar deal. This allows us to ease Scahfer in as a 4th OF and eventually move McLouth.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jun 18, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I've never seen any comments on what Beltre would want...
3/30 has been tossed around, and that seems pretty reasonable for his age and ability.
Plus, we aren’t dealing Minor and I’m thinking Crawford wants a lot more money than that.
Is Frazier at 2B now? Wow, that kid just can’t play the field. SS in college, and was not great there, and now he’s played 3B, 1B, LF, and I guess 2B regularly as a pro. He’s not a good enough hitter to be a DH either.
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I think Crawford will demand more than that. i would love Crawford but he is going to go to the Yanks :(
by atlbraveschamps on Jun 18, 2010 12:59 PM EDT reply actions
I see the Yankees going after him too, but I’m not sure why people are talking like it’s a sure thing. That man sure is a terror on the base paths. I’m just hoping the Yanks make Werth a huge offer
"Look out Atlanta. Jason Heyward is going to wow you."
-Chipper
I agree here
Yank’s could just as easily make Werth an offer, and move either him or Swisher to LF. Gardner is actually producing nicely for them this year, so depending on how much they like him they may not go for an OF at all.
Other team to worry about in the Crawford sweepstakes is the Dodgers. I doubt they keep ManRam around and they’ll have a huge amount of cash coming off the books to offer, with a big hole in LF.
All indication
is that Crawford will get an offer from the Yankees. He has the better track and longer track record.
I am guessing that the Yankees will end up with one or both of Lee and Crawford this offseason. For the record, their team will look like so:
C: Cervelli
1b: Texeira
2b: Cano
SS: Jeter
3b: A-Rod
CF: Granderson
LF: Crawford
RF: Swisher
DH: Posada
Rotation of:
1. Sabathia
2. Cliff Lee
3: Phil Hughes
4. AJ Burnett
5. Andy Petit
Feel free to commence vomiting.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jun 18, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate those bastards! Please, I hope CC goes anywhere but there. He's one of my favorite non-Braves.
I just can’t root for a Yank. I don’t want our relationship to be dead.
yankees payroll
as of right now, they already have 144 million committed to 9 players (a-rod, cc, tex, aj, jorge, cano, swisher, granderson, and damaso marte.
i know they’re the yankees, but there’s no way they can afford jeter, rivera, pettite, cliff lee, carl crawford and 11 more players. they’ve already said that their payroll will take a cut and even if it didnt, your talking about 80-100 million dollars to sign all the players you assume they’ll sign. think about it, here’s a low estimate (very low estimate with each player taking at least a 33% paycut. (aside from crawford).
j
jeter: 12 mil
pettite: 5 mil
rivera: 10 mil
crawford: 13 mil
lee: 15 mil
that’s 55 million and you’ve yet to address 11 roster spots and these are very low estimates. crawford will probably make 16 mil/year. cliff lee could easily make 18 mil/year.
not to mention that they have 3 pitchers (joba, hughes, and mitre) who are arb eligible and will receive significant pay raises.
contrary to popular belief, the yankees cant have everybody. their overspending will catch up with them….sometime.
My opinion cant be wrong. It's my opinion. Those who don't like it can piss up a rope.
excuse the typos
My opinion cant be wrong. It's my opinion. Those who don't like it can piss up a rope.
I don’t buy it. They’ve been at 250 million before, and they’re go there again and again as long as they think it will help them win.
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www.dropoutproductions.com
exactly
and they don’t have, from what I can recall, any top level starters in the high minor leagues. They obviously have their doubts in Javy Vazquez, so therefore they will go after Cliff Lee. Same with Brett Gardner.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jun 22, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
actually
you’re forgetting J. Montero
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jun 21, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn't forget him
just not sure he will be up at that point, and if so where he will play (Catcher, DH?)
by Andy Braves Fan on Jun 22, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not real educated on the baseball roster rules...
…So can someone please tell me what the Braves would need to do in order to see Kawakami die a slow painful death?
Thx
on kawakami...
what little trade value he had as a 4th/5th starter with a reasonable contract has went down the tube. even pitching hungry teams will not have interest in an MLB starter with a 5 era signed for 8.33million/per year.
the best we can hope for is kk goes to the pen after one more start.
My opinion cant be wrong. It's my opinion. Those who don't like it can piss up a rope.
Do we have to keep him?
Do we HAVE to keep him on the big league squad?
Due to some sort of contract rule?
Or can we just call the investment a “bust” and cut him completely?
He’s still worth a long relief slot… but the Braves are probably stuck with him. They signed him to a 3-year, $23,000,000 contract on Jan 13,2009 — I think that includes that $2m signing bonus. This year’s salary is $7.3333 million. Next year could be $9mill.
So do we have to keep him? I don’t know if the usual rules about arbitration and options apply to Japanese League free agents, but at these numbers, Atlanta needs to figure out how to get Kenshin’s ship righted. He’s gonna be a Brave for another 260 games or so.
"I don't think there's any greater free-swinger in the game than Jeff Francoeur" - Tim McCarver, 4/17/2010
Bad #s...
he’s being paid $6.667 this year and next. The 7.33 number you have is with the signing bonus pro-rated and added in.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jun 21, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you serious?
Just do yourself a favor and erase your TC membership. Stop being a jackass.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
by Scott Coleman on Jun 21, 2010 3:20 AM EDT up reply actions
who is this comment meant for?
My opinion cant be wrong. It's my opinion. Those who don't like it can piss up a rope.
HalleyGator
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
by Scott Coleman on Jun 21, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, I'm serious.
I’ve been a Braves fan since the day they came to Atlanta.
You can love KK all you want…
but I’ve seen 2,000 players come and go through the roster in the past 40+ years and some just don’t cut it.
Garrett Anderson last year was a prime example. But I can also go all the way back to bitching about Andy Messersmith and Bruce Sutter. Neither one produced in Atlanta.
I don’t give a damn about KK’s “feelings.” These guys are making WAYYYYY too much money (guaranteed!!) to justify it. KK has shown me enough.
It sure would be nice to have a 6 game lead in the division right now…which we WOULD if only we had someone with a .500 record in the rotation instead of KK.
There is a difference between that, and wanting the guy to have a slow painful death...
and since this has gotten excessively long, and will be gone in a day or two, new rosterbation to keep the mess consolidated.
http://www.talkingchop.com/2010/6/21/1528582/rosterbation-in-the-summer-time
so you're telling me
that because KK isn’t a great pitcher, you wish he’d die a “slow painful death”? You act like Kenshin goes out there and tries to lose on purpose.
Say you have a bad couple days at work or school. Should you die a “slow painful death” because of it? Hell no. Did you do your best? Probably. But your best just wasn’t good enough.
I’m not saying the dislike for KK is wrong, but wishing death on someone is horribe.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
by Scott Coleman on Jun 21, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
fuck you and your family
i hope you, halleygator, die a slow, painful death. you know what? die a quick, painful death. then we don’t have to deal with you again on TC.
LOL
OK, you have insulted me to the same degree that I insulted KK…
and it bothered me about 0.00001%…
so now send me the $23,000,000 that KK got and we will be even.
Alrighty then
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
by Scott Coleman on Jun 22, 2010 3:02 AM EDT up reply actions
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