Braves Quote For The Day... The Bleak Trade Market
by gondeee on May 10, 2010 3:55 PM EDT
in Braves Quote For The Day
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PrintKen Rosenthal talked to an executive who sums up this year's trade market:
A few days ago, I spoke with an executive who did not expect the trade market to offer attractive solutions to teams in need.
"More of the same (bad) contracts people don’t want, the Bronson Arroyos of the world, that group," the exec said. "It will probably be pretty vanilla."
Speaking of bad contracts, it certainly looks like the Pirates off-loaded at least one bad contract on us last year. It was about a month from now last year when the Braves acquired Nate McLouth. He didn't help turn around the team's offensive woes, that took two more trades for hitters.
The biggest factor in the Braves making some kind of move this year will be whether they feel the pressure to go "all in" during Bobby's last season. John Schuerholz went "all in" during his last season by rebuilding the Texas Rangers in the Mark Teixeira trade, so the "all in" scenario is certainly in Atlanta's playbook.
There's actually something to be said for getting a Teixeira-esque bat at a pretty high cost in prospects. We do, after all, have a surplus of pitching prospects, and the Braves have always shown an ability to rebuild the farm system quickly. At this point I would argue for the acquisition of an Adrian Gonzalez type impact player, if not A-Gonz himself, even if it cost us prospects like Freddie Freeman and Arodys Vizcaino or Julio Teheran. As promising (key word: promising) as those kids are, there's no telling how good a major leaguer they would be.
As awesome as we hope Freeman will be, he could turn out to be a four-A bat like many of the guys he's playing with at Gwinnett. As awesome as any pitching prospect is, there's always the possibility that they could suffer an arm injury or rick ankiel their way out of effectiveness.
I say most of this as an exercise in how the Braves front office likely thinks about prospects -- as chips which they can "color-up" for one better player. The McLouth trade last year was unexpected in its earliness and because no one seemed to think McLouth was available. My only hope is that the Braves can find the right piece to plug into this anemic lineup before it's too late. This ship has got to be righted, and it may take a really big move to do so.
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From Nick Cafardo via MLBTR
David DeJesus is “more than available” for teams seeking a lefty outfield bat. In return, the Royals would seek bullpen help and a positional prospect. Kansas City was said to be expecting serious interest in DeJesus this winter. The 31-year-old earns $4.5MM this season with a $6MM option for next season.
He is a career .285/.357/.426 10/10 hitter with plus defense in left who would be a consistant hitter at the top of the order with Prado. As long as there are two guys getting on base for Chipper/Heyward/McCannwithglasses would be a step ahead of where we are now. He doesn’t have a ton of power or speed but makes conistant contact, gets on base, and plays a good overall game.
Jason Heyward wins at baseball.
For the right price I like DeJesus (at the very least he’d be another name for the trolls to butcher), but the move would just be a small step in the right direction. We still need power.
Another uninnocent, elegant fall into the unmagnificent lives of adults...
by Smoltz's Beard on May 10, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I always want to call him David of the Jesus. He worries me, though. Reminds me waaaay too much of one of those guys who puts up nice little decent numbers on non-contending teams, then crumbles when they get somewhere they’re really expected to produce. Kind of like Nate McLouth.
He has more of a track record of production than McLouth but you make a very good point. I certainly wouldn’t give that much for him and not much more than say Chavez or Marek.
Jason Heyward wins at baseball.
by bbxxj on May 10, 2010 4:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i dunno if we need another jesus.
by MacsGlasses on May 10, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
my buddy friend actually got buddy jesus tattooed on his arm…hilarity ensued.
Much easier, all-mighty Megatron, then attacking the real threat...The Autobots moonbase!!
by Brave Neander on May 10, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
buddy
Much easier, all-mighty Megatron, then attacking the real threat...The Autobots moonbase!!
by Brave Neander on May 10, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
expecting an uprising
over ur proposal of moving either the likes of freeman, teheran, and less vizcaino. because it seems as though with hte team the way it is, people seem to value these prospects too high and see them as the savior of the braves. i wouldnt mind moving one of those three for a-gonz, but i think many people would mind very much.
Sometimes risk is necessary
Very rarely does the uprising happen until after it’s deemed a failure. Only after the Braves fell out of contention did the uprising from the you-know-who trade really surface.
In the Braves’ case, I don’t see the team willing to make trades for any sort of rental player, unless they’re miraculously in contention. But if it happens, I don’t see any of the hot young pitching as untradeable.
I’m trying to think here, and anyone who can throw some answer out there would be greatly appreciated, but I’m trying to think of the last time a significant contributing rental player actually took the cake at the end – and to complicate things further, the last time a significant contributing rental player was acquired for prospects only, that ended up taking the cake.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
I'm not counting just playoffs
because there are a lot of those; Randy Johnson, Doyle Alexander, Carlos Beltran, and yeah, Sabathia to name a few, but I’m thinking of guys who had only a few months with the team, made some noticeable contributions, and won a WS.
The only one that I can think of that might be borderline is Orlando Cabrera, for the Red Sox in 2004.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
He was also under team control for 2 1/2 years
I think he was looking for expiring contract types to compare
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on May 10, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve said it before, it would not surprise me if Vizcaino were used for trade bait to bring a piece of the puzzle. That said, trading for Adrian Gonzalez is a mistake. I don’t believe the Braves would be able/willing to extend him. If we’re giving up on Freeman, let’s do so for a permanent replacement, not some rental.
When you've said Jason Heyward, you've said it all.........
After dealing with the backlash of the Tex trade for so long, I’m probably just end up sticking a gun in my mouth if we do something similar this year. If we’re not solidly in the playoff picture we need to be sellers, no more outside shots.
Another uninnocent, elegant fall into the unmagnificent lives of adults...
This…
I’m always for selling, although I don’t like these mid-season deals because it means we’re either giving up talent or we’re not in the race.
I love the buy low-sell high model of teams like the Twins, Marlins, et al. If we’re not going to be spenders, this is probably the safest way to long-term stability. I’d rather wait a couple years and give up a player in the offseason while getting two or three guys in return. Wash, rinse, repeat.
That’s just me, though. The problem with that model is that there’s a ton of room between where your players are performing currently and their ceiling. Some won’t reach their potential, others will reach it after they’re sent away. There’s no guarantee from year to year that your team will contend because you’re constantly recycling your mature players for the hope of more talent.
-C
in hindsight
the tex trade wasnt THAT bad. tex did just what we paid for: produce, too bad the rest of the team couldn’t pull it together. and the only real impact player has been neftali feliz. yes anotehr lights out reliever would be nice but hey we have kimbrel. j-salt was moveable as he is not that great… and we had some stud named bmac. Andrus, besides a current 10 game hitting streak, hasn’t been good enough to say yunel is crap. he has more k’s than walks and has been caught stealing 6 times already this year… for me when i heard of the tex trade i was ecstatic.
No, I wasn’t against the Tex trade…I just won’t be able to live through the sheer fickleness of the fan base were something like it to happen again.
Another uninnocent, elegant fall into the unmagnificent lives of adults...
by Smoltz's Beard on May 10, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Me?...
I just wouldn’t want to pay a huge price to simply miss the playoffs the next two years (ala Tex).
I agree with this guy.
People bitch about the Tex trade but we didn’t give up back breaking prospects that we needed down the road in the deal. I think most are mad because maybe we could have used those prospects to get something more long term than a rental. I don’t mind another blockbuster trade that doesn’t hurt us in the need basis if it means helping the team out now. Untouchable should be Teheran.
by romone_braves91 on May 10, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
And how much did we need Tex vs. the prospects...
It was as much the result as the deal itself. We could have missed the postseason and STILL kept Andrus, Harrison, Feliz, etc, moved Salty for perhaps a leadoff hitter, etc. Opportunity costs, in addition to the cost itself, for missing the post season. If we add A Gonz, it’ll help. But if we can’t fix leadoff, or other issues, it will be a worthless move.
Let’s be real, it all comes back to freaking Hampton being a complete waste of money and time which lead to the Tex trade in the first place. He was the missing link throughout most of the decade. We need a solid #2/#3 starting pitching to compliment Smotlz and Hudson. I remember the year we traded for Tex. We traded for him b/c according to John at the time (paraphrasing) “We can out hit/run the opposing team instead of having great pitching due to lack of pitching availability in the trade market. Hopefully scoring a lot of runs will solve this problem.” Then again I could be wrong.
by romone_braves91 on May 10, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
No way.
If anything we should try to be sellers with the trade market so bad. We might just get someone to pick up Lowe’s or KK’s albatross for us. If demand >>> supply then we should try to do some unloading.
One player, even Gonzalez, isn’t going to right the ship IMO.
Hinske, Glaus, Wagner, Saito, Ross…we’d have alot of potential trade chips for teams looking for that missing piece.
Imagine losing Lowe’s and Chipper’s contract as well…oh god, I’d be in heaven.
Another uninnocent, elegant fall into the unmagnificent lives of adults...
by Smoltz's Beard on May 10, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I imagine he’ll price himself out of our range come next year.
Another uninnocent, elegant fall into the unmagnificent lives of adults...
by Smoltz's Beard on May 10, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
So sad, but so true...
Ross could be a starting catcher on 28 ML teams. I think he knows that, too. He will be missed…
"Never doubt Derek Lowe's ability to win despite himself."
by EricGreggWasPaidOff on May 10, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
No clue if those guys have NTC (can’t imagine they do), just picked them because there contracts expire after this year (Saito and Wagner have vesting options though, I think).
Another uninnocent, elegant fall into the unmagnificent lives of adults...
by Smoltz's Beard on May 10, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d rather let the kids play and lose and finish 20 out….then keep the same personnel and finish 10 out
Cockchafer
Absolutely.
Another uninnocent, elegant fall into the unmagnificent lives of adults...
by Smoltz's Beard on May 10, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
In the long run they'll likely have to change that to be players for the top free agents
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on May 10, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
that’s what i thought, thanks
Another uninnocent, elegant fall into the unmagnificent lives of adults...
by Smoltz's Beard on May 10, 2010 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
?
Hasn’t Wagner announced that he will retire at the end of this year? Thought I read that recently.
"I think the Tigers really overpaided here" ... 2/21/2010 by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Johnny Damon signing for $8 Million
this
Another uninnocent, elegant fall into the unmagnificent lives of adults...
by Smoltz's Beard on May 10, 2010 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll try to find links, but he announced that while he was with the Mets too.
I don’t know if I’d buy it, espescially if his option vests
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on May 10, 2010 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Imagine losing Lowe’s and Chipper’s contract as well…oh god, I’d be in heaven.
I don’t think we have to worry about Chipper’s contract. Either he’ll be worth what he’s paid, or he’ll retire. And anyways, I don’t have the stomach to trade Dale Murphy a second time. As for everyone else, if they net some nice prospects, I’m all for it.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
Being able to dump Lowe’s contract is just wishful thinking, but aside from a handful of ABs before Chipper re-aggravated his injury he’s looked pretty terrible. And that doesn’t even take into account his defense. I just can’t see him coming back.
Another uninnocent, elegant fall into the unmagnificent lives of adults...
by Smoltz's Beard on May 10, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed...
I’m at the point now that I’m becoming increasingly angry with Chipper and hope he retires.
Much easier, all-mighty Megatron, then attacking the real threat...The Autobots moonbase!!
by Brave Neander on May 10, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Alex Gordon
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
Hate to say it
but I fear the Royals, or more specifically Dayton Moore, will completely ruin Gordon before they decide to let him go.
"I think the Tigers really overpaided here" ... 2/21/2010 by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Johnny Damon signing for $8 Million
uhhhhhh.....
we seem to be pretty screwed in that category. Although Chipper himself has given a vote of confidence to Brandon Hicks playing third. Not necessarily to replace him, but he did say that third was probably Hicks’ best position.
Much easier, all-mighty Megatron, then attacking the real threat...The Autobots moonbase!!
by Brave Neander on May 10, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s not a doubt in my mind Hicks could probably handle it defensively. Maybe even at a GG level. But his bat… I shudder to think.
Is it really that bad? I mean, he looked over-matched in his first at-bat but I was kind of hoping he’d get the start in stead of Conrad the other day. Couldn’t have been any worse.
Another uninnocent, elegant fall into the unmagnificent lives of adults...
by Smoltz's Beard on May 10, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean, obviously we don’t have a major league sample to examine yet, but the guy’s OPS has declined each year as he’s moved up the ladder, culminating in a paltry .692 with only a .179 AVG in his AAA stop this year. Given his numbers his first couple of years I suppose there’s hope, but the trend isn’t pretty, nor or the recent numbers.
I almost want to say
Hicks is kind of a slightly worse Pedro Feliz. Tuck him in the lower part of the order, and brace for strikeouts, but his glove is definitely superb.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Hicks
He walks and strikes out way more than feliz. He could end up being better, if he improves his contact a bit. Maybe a .230/.350/.425 type of guy who’s awesome at 3B. If he can do that while making < $1 million/year, I would take it.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
by buzzdeadwax on May 11, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Alex Gordon seems to be the popular answer, should we be able to acquire him. I’ve got no problem with that as long as the cost is appropriate.
If not him, I’m not sure what kind of FA we’d be working with.
Another uninnocent, elegant fall into the unmagnificent lives of adults...
by Smoltz's Beard on May 10, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Adrian Beltre will be available this offseason I believe. So will Mike Lowell, but yuck.
Shouldn't Wes Timmons get a shot at 3B over that Chipper guy everybody talks about?
I’d love Beltre, but he’ll probably be asking for too much.
Another uninnocent, elegant fall into the unmagnificent lives of adults...
by Smoltz's Beard on May 10, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...
MLBTR has the 3B market looking pretty bare in 2011. Maybe make a trade for a guy.
"(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper -- you know he's going to get you, you just don't know where or when."
by Scott Coleman on May 10, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Depending on the cost, I could get behind Alex Gordon under one condition: WE GET A SERVICEABLE OUTFIELDER. No more of this Melky/McLouth nonsense. Gordon could be a solid player but he’s probably not going to be the big threat we need. I know we’re all assuming Freeman comes up next year, so if we could redirect the Glaus/Chipper/McLouth/Melky money to winning the Werth sweepstakes I could go for Gordon. Otherwise we’re going to have to overpay for someone like Beltre who, while not a superstar either, is a bigger threat than Gordon.
That actually doesn’t sound too bad:
Prado
McLouth(if he stays)/Schafer
Heyward
Werth
Freeman
MacAttack
Escobar
Gordon
any lineup with Werth in it
sounds good with me.
"(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper -- you know he's going to get you, you just don't know where or when."
by Scott Coleman on May 10, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
This.
We don’t have a prayer of landing him though, unless Chipper retires. That plus Glaus, Wags, etc. walking could give us the room we need to at least be in the running.
what if...
we deal KK and get rid of all/most his contract (he’d have to start pitching a little better tho) — 5-8MM saved
Wags and Saito leave — 12MM saved
DFA Melky/Diaz – 3MM saved
That’s at least $20MM saved and we could easily replace those guys with Medlen, Kimbrel and a guy like Matt Young or Schafer.
And if by some miracle Wren could ship McLouth or DLowe off, it would be easy to do. We’d probably have to eat a bit of the contract though and it certainly wouldn’t be easy, but we could do it if FW is on his A game.
"(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper -- you know he's going to get you, you just don't know where or when."
by Scott Coleman on May 10, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
KK’s gonna have to get on a hot streak for us to pull that off. That would save 6.6M. Wags+Saito= 11M. with Melky’s 3M and Glaus’ 2M, that’s 22.6M, minus McLouth’s 2M raise, minus around 6M (estimated) for arb raises to Yunel, JJ EOF, and Prado gives us only 14.6M to work with, and that’s without factoring in whatever it costs to re-sign/replace Ross. We’ll need more wiggle room than that. Unless Chipper suddenly turns it around, I trust him to be true to his word and walk, which would give us more than enough room to snatch up Werth and plug the 3B hole. I doubt we’ll deal DLowe, even if we eat money. The only other option, then, is to ship of McLouth without eating anything.
Heyward in right, Werth in left. Good Lord, I’d be willing to pull a Tonya Harding on the knees of Chipper, Lowe, Wagner, whoever it takes to see that happen.
Shouldn't Wes Timmons get a shot at 3B over that Chipper guy everybody talks about?
I'd rather see Crawford, myself.
But yes, Werth is a 1a for me.
by soup du jour on May 10, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s really a pick your poison kind of thing, but I think we need Werth’s power threat in the middle of the order forcing those other guys to see pitches more than we need Crawford’s SBs at the top. Just my take on it. Plus Werth provides 20+ steals himself.
Also
The Yankees have had a stiffy for Crawford for years; there was already whispers that his impending free agency was a big reason they didn’t offer Damon the muliyear deal he wanted. I’m sure they like Werth too, but maybe not as much as Crawford. They’ve already got power they don’t know what to do with, it makes more sense for them to try pick up their Jacoby Ellsbury.
this
they don’t need more power. that’d be like the Rays taking another base stealer instead of a power hitter.
"(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper -- you know he's going to get you, you just don't know where or when."
by Scott Coleman on May 10, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Being a Nebraska homer, I’d be just fine with Gordon. I think he’s another of those players that needs to move out from the shadow of his past in order to reach his potential.
Lincoln and KC are just a few hours away, and there was a lot of hometown pressure put on him way too early. Watching him play in college was a treat, so I’d love to see him in a Braves uniform.
-C
You’re a Nebraska fan? Football as well?
"(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper -- you know he's going to get you, you just don't know where or when."
by Scott Coleman on May 10, 2010 6:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Wow. Get rid of #1, 4, and 5 and you have a list there.
Nobody should like the suck that emanates from Lincoln.
When you've said Jason Heyward, you've said it all.........
I dunno who you root for, but about 5 or 6 teams excepted (and if you say a Big 10 team or Notre Dame, I will laugh at you), I’d put my Cornhuskers up against anyone next season.
They’re back on the right track and they aren’t going away anytime soon.
-C
I root for Kansas State. The Big 10 and Notre Dame s-u-c-k.
Nebraska benefits from a weak North. Their offense is laughable.
When you've said Jason Heyward, you've said it all.........
The offense will be better this season. Brand new receivers and QB last year.
The defense will be for real again next season, probably better. Both the line and secondary are fully stocked and the LBs aren’t bad. Surprisingly, there won’t be much drop off at the DT positions. Crick and Steinkuhler are both beasts.
-C
M-I-Z Z-O-U!!!!
"(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper -- you know he's going to get you, you just don't know where or when."
by Scott Coleman on May 10, 2010 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
LULZ
So, you think the Huskers and Tigers are going to end up in the Big 10 like everyone seems to be saying??
God, I hope not. I tend to root on my conference, but the Big 10 is the antithesis of my fandom. I hate all those teams. It’s not a focused hate like my hatred for Colorado, Mizzou and K-State, but it’s still hate.
Only way I like the move is if they get Notre Dame…that’s one team worth beating the snot out of every year.
-C
by cthabeerman on May 11, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the Braves should hold out and not make a Texeira mistake again. I’d like to see them make a run at Prince Fielder next year.
Fielder will be harder to land than Werth, and we already have Freeman in the minors doing pretty good.
Another uninnocent, elegant fall into the unmagnificent lives of adults...
by Smoltz's Beard on May 10, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
guys like fielder break down. see Ortiz, David. Those big sluggers…. stay away.
by Braves Biceps on May 10, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
Even without factoring in Ortiz, the track record for big guys like Fielder is not particularly good. Admittedly, Fielder is apparently a lot more athletic than he looks and actually puts a lot of effort into taking care of his body, but there’s still a big risk that he’ll just drop off the face of the planet in a few years.
More importantly, he’s a Boras client and we probably can’t afford him and still put decent guys at our other open positions.
by DeadlyWalrus on May 11, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Schafer
I think JS is likely trade bait. I don’t think the FO values him nearly as high as they did when he came up at the start of last year. I know he was injured, but I just have a bad feeling he’ll underwhelm with the big league club even when he’s healthy. I could be wrong of course, and he could prove to be our center fielder of the future, but I think the Braves have to seriously look at trading him now when his value is still high compared to what might happen if he has a second disappointing stint in the bigs.
Much easier, all-mighty Megatron, then attacking the real threat...The Autobots moonbase!!
Agreed
Reminds me a lot of mclouth actually I think he could shine on a team like the Pirates who aren’t serious contenders.
Are you sure anyone besides the Braves thinks of Schafer very highly? Given how terrible our situation is at lead off I can’t imagine us dealing him unless we’re certain he can’t get it done.
especially
…with the lack of impact position players in our system. We have the surplus of pitching, as Gondee points out, but if the key to landing a big time bat like Gonzo is a highly regarded position player, we really don’t have much to offer other than Schafer and Freeman.
Much easier, all-mighty Megatron, then attacking the real threat...The Autobots moonbase!!
by Brave Neander on May 10, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think anyone views him as a top notch prospect anymore, but I know there should be a few teams out there that could still give up something somewhat substantial (nice-alliteration) for him. I do agree though, that’s why I say we might need to get rid of him now before he’s viewed as a bust, which he might if he disappoints in the bigs again.
Much easier, all-mighty Megatron, then attacking the real threat...The Autobots moonbase!!
by Brave Neander on May 10, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I have to imagine we’d give him another shot before shipping him off. Could be wrong though.
Another uninnocent, elegant fall into the unmagnificent lives of adults...
by Smoltz's Beard on May 10, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it’s time the Braves became sellers and started letting the kids play a bit more. Glaus has been coming around, but I think if Freeman continues to hit in AAA they need to bring him up and give him a shot to see what they have with him and whether he can hit MLB pitching. If he struggles a bit too much, then trade him in the offseason and go after a stud 1B on the FA market, or via trade.
I think McLouth needs to be traded. He has a fairly reasonable contract, but it’s obvious he just hasn’t clicked here in Atlanta and reminds me of when we had Kenny Lofton back for that one season. He had a decent season but didn’t run hardly at all and got CS whenever he did run it seems. Not only that, but he was unhappy and to me it seems like McLouth is a bit unhappy here. I think Schafer is a CFer of the future and McLouth is just keeping the spot warm for him.
If Chipper keeps up his level of play, I think he really will retire at the end of the year, and then we’re in a real pickle as to what we’re going to do at 3rd. Sure, Prado can move over there, but then who will man 2B, Infante? I’m just not sure if he would be a great everyday player.
We are getting old in the field in a lot of key areas, and unfortunately there aren’t many prospects on the horizon (besides Freeman) for the near future that give me a warm fuzzy like I got with Heyward and I get with Freeman when I watch him.
I wouldn't mind selling...
strictly to get some impact position players in out system.
Much easier, all-mighty Megatron, then attacking the real threat...The Autobots moonbase!!
by Brave Neander on May 10, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
our*
Much easier, all-mighty Megatron, then attacking the real threat...The Autobots moonbase!!
by Brave Neander on May 10, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Assuming Glaus turns it around we could put him at 3rd and Freeman on 1st. Have chipper take over Melky’s outfield duties and we could have Heyward, Schafer and jones in the outfield.
Have you seen Chipper at 3rd? What makes you think he can limp around the outfield when he actually as to run down balls?
Cockchafer
I think he would be fine in the OF given the right time to heal his nagging injuries. I’m actually with Brian Jordan, Chipper needs to get in better shape and work on flexibility so he isn’t sidelined with nagging injuries all season.
LOL
Chipper in the OF and Glaus at 3B. I’d pay good money to see that.
"(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper -- you know he's going to get you, you just don't know where or when."
by Scott Coleman on May 10, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
could it be possible to have worse defense on the left side of the field?
Much easier, all-mighty Megatron, then attacking the real threat...The Autobots moonbase!!
by Brave Neander on May 10, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m a little bit amazed at that comment, to be honest.
Another uninnocent, elegant fall into the unmagnificent lives of adults...
by Smoltz's Beard on May 10, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
you're fine and that's cool
but Chipper in the OF would be a disaster. he was pretty bad out there and that was 5 years ago. And Glaus hasn’t taken balls at 3B for 18 months now either.
"(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper -- you know he's going to get you, you just don't know where or when."
by Scott Coleman on May 10, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
This.
"Never doubt Derek Lowe's ability to win despite himself."
by EricGreggWasPaidOff on May 10, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly
I’m rarely opposing of letting the kids get their feet wet, but if this happened, would everyone be nearly as pissed if the kids lost their share of games as they adapt, as they are when seasoned veterans fail to do their jobs well?
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Personally...
I wouldn’t mind seeing him back with the big club. I’m just so tired of the lackluster production from the outfield (sans Heyward, of course), and of course I’m sure we’d all like the answer to our outfield woes to come from one of our own young studs than an over priced free agent.
Much easier, all-mighty Megatron, then attacking the real threat...The Autobots moonbase!!
reply fail
Much easier, all-mighty Megatron, then attacking the real threat...The Autobots moonbase!!
by Brave Neander on May 10, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
If we trade Teheran
I’ll hit something. Hard.
"(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper -- you know he's going to get you, you just don't know where or when."
I usually end up taking out frustration on my PS3 controller…gotta love the satisfaction of broken plastic and buttons flying all over my room. Of course that’s why I’m about $180 into controller debt though….temper control fail :(
Much easier, all-mighty Megatron, then attacking the real threat...The Autobots moonbase!!
by Brave Neander on May 10, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup, just broke one myself that I’d had for less than 3 months. Stupid 50 Cent video game…
Another uninnocent, elegant fall into the unmagnificent lives of adults...
by Smoltz's Beard on May 10, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
best. game. ever.
"(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper -- you know he's going to get you, you just don't know where or when."
by Scott Coleman on May 10, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
haha
Another uninnocent, elegant fall into the unmagnificent lives of adults...
by Smoltz's Beard on May 10, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
I saw you playing that one day, and thought “what a loser.” Almost sent you that via XBL, but without a keyboard, it wasn’t worth the effort.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
FWIW, the game itself wasn’t that bad. Gameplay was like Gears of War (only nowhere near as smooth obviously), where you’re killing terrorists in the Middle East because some guy stole 50’s diamond encrusted skull. The dialogue is so bad it’s hilarious.
There was just one level where it went from “hey this game is alot of fun” to “YOU’VE GOTTA BE KIDDING ME YOU STUPID MOTHERFUCKER, I SHOT THAT GUY 20 TIMES AND HE TURNS AROUND AND SHOOTS ME ONCE AND I’M FUCKING DEAD. WHAT A CROCK OF SHIT.” Broke my controller, put the game in the mail the next day.
Another uninnocent, elegant fall into the unmagnificent lives of adults...
by Smoltz's Beard on May 10, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
hahahaha
"(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper -- you know he's going to get you, you just don't know where or when."
by Scott Coleman on May 10, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL...
at first glance after reading your post I was like “What video game are you playing that only costs $.50? No wonder you broke your controller…lol.”
Much easier, all-mighty Megatron, then attacking the real threat...The Autobots moonbase!!
by Brave Neander on May 10, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha, this.
Vizcaino I’m more amenable with, or even Delgado, but no Teheran, even for someone like Gonzalez.
by soup du jour on May 10, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Has Gregor Blanco completely fell off the face of the earth?? (The answer is likely yes).
I’m not saying I want him back in the bigs, but maybe sending one of the Nates or Melky down for a short spell couldn’t hurt. I dunno what the ramifications of such a move would be in terms of options, tho.
I’m just tired of seeing all our outfielders except Heyward fail at the plate. Maybe bringing up someone else to fail might add a sense of freshness to what has become fairly stale failure and motivate one of the guys to step up their game…
-C
After Blanco’s last stint in the majors, I’m not all that excited to have him back.
Another uninnocent, elegant fall into the unmagnificent lives of adults...
by Smoltz's Beard on May 10, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m inclined to agree wholeheartedly, but if none of these guys get going in May, I wouldn’t necessarily be against it.
It’s not at all likely, but maybe we get WBC Blanco instead of last year Blanco.
-C
sure can...
if we can get WBC pitching to throw against him
Much easier, all-mighty Megatron, then attacking the real threat...The Autobots moonbase!!
by Brave Neander on May 10, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Completely off subject....
but I just started playing The Show online last month, and I’m sure plenty of people in the TC community play online as well. What are some of your online names? I wouldn’t mind playing some fellow braves fans (although I’m sure we all would want to be the braves) and going up against some people I could actually talk to on here after the game.
Much easier, all-mighty Megatron, then attacking the real threat...The Autobots moonbase!!
If we are sellers....
who thinks we are going to get anything great in any deals that would benefit the team in the future (selling Lowe, McLouth, Glaus, KK, Wags, etc.)?
We would get mediocre to above but not sure thing prospects. It’s not like we have a Halladay on the team who we can sell for a king’s ransom.
by romone_braves91 on May 10, 2010 5:08 PM EDT reply actions
Exactly...
that’s all we would hope for. Some serviceable minor league prospects with above average yet like unattainable ceilings.
Much easier, all-mighty Megatron, then attacking the real threat...The Autobots moonbase!!
by Brave Neander on May 10, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
likely*
Much easier, all-mighty Megatron, then attacking the real threat...The Autobots moonbase!!
by Brave Neander on May 10, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
When it comes to those kinds of pickups/moves I have faith in Wren. EOF, Chavez (so far), Infante/Ohman, etc.
Another uninnocent, elegant fall into the unmagnificent lives of adults...
by Smoltz's Beard on May 10, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
To Wren, please no more Tex for Kotchman deals. That trade was brutal when I read it the first time.
by romone_braves91 on May 10, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
He was kind of hamstrung on that one. It really comes down to whether or not you’d have preferred to just get the draft picks. I’m on the fence about that.
Another uninnocent, elegant fall into the unmagnificent lives of adults...
by Smoltz's Beard on May 10, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Wren didn’t have his choice between Kotchman and Morales did he? Or at least publicly he’s never said he had the choice, right?
"(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper -- you know he's going to get you, you just don't know where or when."
by Scott Coleman on May 10, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not entirely sure about that one. Someone else may know. Let’s hope not!
Another uninnocent, elegant fall into the unmagnificent lives of adults...
by Smoltz's Beard on May 10, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
actually...
i don’t think I wanna know now. I might just cry if he really did have the choice.
"(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper -- you know he's going to get you, you just don't know where or when."
by Scott Coleman on May 10, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Morales would have looked amazing in a Bravos uni.
by romone_braves91 on May 10, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Look at their record at the time of the trade and tell me which one you'd choose...
after the fact, it’s easy to say Morales. At the time, Kotchman had the better resume.
I agree he was hamstrung. He should have (if he could have) ignored the need at 1st and went strictly for talented prospects. Hindsight is always 20/20 vision. Man 2009 was a terrible season for having lots of money and having holes in unusual places (SP that could eat innings, #2 starter, left fielder, etc.)
by romone_braves91 on May 10, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he hamstrung himself with the demand to get back an mlb 1st baseman.
I think he could’ve gotten more talent elsewhere, but he limited himself too much by that demand (if the reports are correct, that is).
by soup du jour on May 10, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
You both make a good point about the 1B.
Another uninnocent, elegant fall into the unmagnificent lives of adults...
by Smoltz's Beard on May 10, 2010 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions
If it were me...
I would pay the whole 2010 salary of these guys in an attempt to get better prospects in return. The 2010 salaries are sunk costs anyways.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
You mean eat the costs for the other team? Interesting, didn’t think about that. You think a team would really be up for that…upgrading a prospect for a couple million in relief?
Another uninnocent, elegant fall into the unmagnificent lives of adults...
by Smoltz's Beard on May 10, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
The best thing we can really get is salary relief for those guys.
by soup du jour on May 10, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Sounds like it sucks right now to be buyers in this market. Too many teams are in the hunt except in the NL Central but nobody is talking about any players in that division except for Fielder which nobody wants due to price.
by romone_braves91 on May 10, 2010 5:31 PM EDT reply actions
June. Wait till June.
That’ll give us a clearer picture of what this team is made of.
But with the Indians struggling (and them needing talent just about everywhere) one guy that I’ve always had my eye on is Shin-Soo Choo. I haven’t heard anything about his availability, but if our outfield continues to be a world of suck and we’ve got it back to .500 by June 1st, he would go very nicely along side Heyward and whoever sucks less out of Melky and McLouth.
This and this!
May just isn’t a good time to sell or buy, at least with regards to this years team. There is simply no market right now for sellers, so it’s unlikely we would get a premium return for whomever we would be selling. At the same time, trying to buy/rent a big name considering how far out of contention we are is equally silly. Patience is needed …. honestly I can’t believe I just said that!
I am also a big Choo fan, that kid just flat rakes. The problem I have with him though is two-fold. First there’s the question of his “pending” military service requirement – which I fear would keep Cleveland from trying to sell him for fear they wouldn’t get fair value – and 2. he just hired Scott Borass-hole. I’m sure there are ways around the first issue, but the second issue is a huge hurdle – no pun intended!
"I think the Tigers really overpaided here" ... 2/21/2010 by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Johnny Damon signing for $8 Million
Wouldn't worry about the military thing
I could “source” you guys, but you’re going to have to trust me, unless you can read Korean or Japanese. But in short, the following:
“All else fails, I can become a US citizen.”
It would no doubt anger some Koreans, but many can’t fault him for the pursuit of fortune.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Agreed
I’ve read several articles that speculated similar, so I’m not so much worried that he will actually have to serve as much as I am about the fact it just isn’t resolved yet. Meaning, a team wanting to trade for his services just isn’t going to pay as much for a player with the risk, albeit small, he has to leave for two years as they would for the same player with no risk.
"I think the Tigers really overpaided here" ... 2/21/2010 by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Johnny Damon signing for $8 Million
what did we
give up for Mclouth?? I cant remember.
"Son, why is my cocktail all over my penis?" -Skip Carey, trying to teach Chip how to drive a standard transmission
Gorkys Hernandez, Jeff Locke and Charlie Morton.
So yeah, not much.
"(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper -- you know he's going to get you, you just don't know where or when."
by Scott Coleman on May 10, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Basically...
One wild card outfielder, one interesting pitching prospect, and one enigma (great stuff, messed up in the head).
Although I’ve always rooted for Charlie. Great guy.
by soup du jour on May 10, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know how realistic many of the Braves trade options will be.
Guys like Vizcaino, Teheran, and Delgado are still so young that their value in a trade is well below what even an extra year or two in the minors should do to it. Freeman probably has more value to the Braves than most other teams just due to his being a first baseman. I really can’t see Wren managing to get any trade done involving those four without giving them up for far less than they’re worth. It seems to me that most teams that sell in season are targeting returns that are closer to big league ready to appease their fans, so Shafer and Freeman would likely have to headline any package along with one of the young pitchers to get any sort of impact player.
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on May 10, 2010 5:43 PM EDT reply actions
Medlen
He probably has pretty good value being young and effective, and has strong potential to start. But he probably wouldn’t be a headliner to get a top guy. Also, if Minor can get just a bit more run control in him he could be a decent trade chip with his great K rate and good stuff this year.
by soup du jour on May 10, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Medlan is the exact kind of guy the Braves should not be trading.
He’s still under team control and cheap for far to long to trade him. Atlanta just doesn’t have the Mets or Phillies payrolls where they can be building packages around versatile minimum salaried guys like that to acquire one likely more expensive player.
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on May 10, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd keep Teheran and Delgado since they have always been here
I’d package any but not all of the following players: Medlen, McLouth, Freeman, Vizcaino, Spruill, Hoover, Cabrera.
I said something about trading for Gonzalez
And was nearly cursed out for mentioning it. A power threat like that in the lineup WILL make this offense better. Plus the fact that McCann is not going to hit this bad for the entire season, Esco and Heyward will be back soon this lineup will be better. You could still get Glaus in the lineup when Chippe’s out or give Gonzalez a rest or even teach Glaus how to play the OF platoon him and Hinske in LF. But honestly he’d be a good bench bat and I’d platoon Infante and Hinske in LF.
Haha...same thing happened to me
I have been saying for weeks that we need to make a huge move before it is too late. Adrian Gonzalez would give this team a chance if a couple other guys would turn things around. As currently constituted, this team is not going to finish over .500 much less make the playoffs.
Great post Gondee. Glad to see you are putting some pressure on the organization to try and save this season.
by letsgobravos on May 10, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Why would Gonzo be available at all right now?
The NL West looks pretty terrible right now and the Padres are 19-12 sitting alone in 1st. They could easily fall out of it by the deadline, but at this point I’d think he’s more likely to be available next offseason.
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on May 10, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
dont see a first place team trading their power bat int he middle of the season…
Espescially a hometown kid that sells tickets the way he does.
It’s almost inevitable that they lose him, but I don’t think they really have to rush it. They should still get as good a return next offseason as they would now if they leave time to work out an extension.
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
by Stephen Schmidt on May 10, 2010 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
The sad thing is
A-Gon doesn’t sell a whole lot of tickets. PETCO has ranked in the bottom-10 of home attendance the last few years. Either its lack of marketing, or kind of like Atlanta, too many seats to fill (avg. attendance – 22k about, PETCO seats 42k), but a guy who was essentially born and schooled in SD and produces at the level of A-Gon should really have been built around while they had some of his best years. Could have happened had the FO not gone to pot.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Here's all we need:
Trade Melky Cabrera, Randall Delgado, Arodys Vizcaino, and Cole Rohrbough to the Houston Astros for Roy Oswalt.
Call up Jordan Schafer to play CF.
Re-sign Troy Glaus and flip him back to 3B at 1/3 with mutual option.
Let Chipper Jones and Billy Wagner retire.
Sign Jayson Werth to play RF at 5/70 on a backloaded deal.
Flip Jason Heyward to LF.
Call up Freddie Freeman to play 1B.
Sign Javier Vazquez at 2/14.
Trade Kenshin Kawakami, Brandon Hicks, and Scott Diamond to the LA Angels for prospects.
Let Takashi Saito walk.
Resign Eric Hinske at 2/7, David Ross at 1/2.5, and Omar Infante at 2/5.
Extend Yunel Escobar and Jair Jurrjens to team-friendly extentions buying out arbitration years (possibly now for JJ, even with Boras, considering his injuries this year).
Line-up:
Jordan Scahfer CF
Yunel Escobar SS
Jason Heyward LF
Jayson Werth RF
Brian McCann C
Troy Glaus 3B
Freddie Freeman 1B
Martin Prado 2B
Bench:
David Ross C
Matt Diaz OF
Eric Hinske IF/OF
Omar Infante IF/OF
Brooks Conrad IF
Rotation:
Roy Oswalt
Tommy Hanson
Tim Hudson
Jair Jurrjens
Javier Vazquez
Bullpen:
Kris Medlen
Johnny Venters
Peter Moylan
Eric O’Flaherty
Julio Teheran
Mike Dunn
Craig Kimbrell (CL)
by Wren_and_Stimpy on May 10, 2010 7:17 PM EDT reply actions
Oh, I forgot....
Trade McLouth to the Mariners for a couple B-level prospects. Hopefully a third-base prospect.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on May 10, 2010 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions
There are a lot of assumptions in there...
1) The need for Roy Oswalt? And you want to give up Vizcaino AND Delgado for him?
2) You assume Troy Glaus would be signable for $3mil. If he lives up to his signing amount this year, he will be priced much higher next season. If he doesn’t live up to his signing amount, he isn’t worth resigning for $3mil.
3) Do you honestly think Jayson Werth is going to sign a 5 year deal for only $12mil/year? I guarantee you he’s going to want at least $15mil/year. And why switch Heyward to LF!?
4) Vazquez may not be worth $7mil/year. There seems to be a very big assumption being made by a lot of people that he is magically better in the NL and can’t pitch at all in the AL. Does the record reflect that? Yes. But remember: correlation does not imply causation.
5) Do you really think Ross will sign for $2.5mil for another year to be McCann’s backup when he could get more money to be a starting catcher on 28 ML teams? I really wish he would, but I just don’t see it happening.
"Never doubt Derek Lowe's ability to win despite himself."
by EricGreggWasPaidOff on May 10, 2010 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Couldn't agree more
Except that 5/70 = $14 mil per, and Werth may think he’s worth more but I doubt he’ll get it. At least not in total, somebody might jump in at 3 yrs and $15 mil but I just don’t see anyone going 4 or more. Then again I’ve been wrong before.
"I think the Tigers really overpaided here" ... 2/21/2010 by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Johnny Damon signing for $8 Million
Yeah….math fail on my part. The point still stands, though.
"Never doubt Derek Lowe's ability to win despite himself."
by EricGreggWasPaidOff on May 11, 2010 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Hate to burst your bubble
Trade Melky Cabrera, Randall Delgado, Arodys Vizcaino, and Cole Rohrbough to the Houston Astros for Roy Oswalt.
Uh, NO. Roy O was one helluva pitcher once but just like Lowe his skills are declining rapidly. He’s owed the remainder of his $15 mil salary this year and is on the hook for $16 mil for ‘11 and ’12. Even if he opts out of his ’12 contact or if he’s bought out that’s still spending $30 mil. No thanks.
Call up Jordan Schafer to play CF.
I would be the first one on your JS bandwagon but he just simply is not ready.
Re-sign Troy Glaus and flip him back to 3B at 1/3 with mutual option.
See below … Glaus, even at a reduced contract, isn’t good enough to move Chipper.
Let Chipper Jones and Billy Wagner retire.
Why? Chipper is an on-base machine. Unless something changes quickly I completely agree he needs to move up to the 2 hole, but he is still very valuable. Wagner has been ridiculously un-hittable so far and I see no reason why he can’t keep it up. Realistically we would have to pay just as much, if not more, on the open market to replace their production.
Sign Jayson Werth to play RF at 5/70 on a backloaded deal.
Werth is definitely someone we should look into but not at 5/70. I don’t think the market will be that high for his services.
Flip Jason Heyward to LF.
Why? Werth has played plenty of LF in his career. Granted Werth is a fantastic defender, but Heyward is no slouch. I say it’s easier to move the guy with more experience.
Call up Freddie Freeman to play 1B.
Not ready!
Sign Javier Vazquez at 2/14.
So min $30 mil for Oswalt and $28 mil for Vazquez? $58 mil over two years for two pitchers who probably won’t be as good as what we already have on the roster?
Resign Eric Hinske at 2/7, David Ross at 1/2.5, and Omar Infante at 2/5.
Hinske, maybe. Infante, maybe. Ross will probably be starting for someone next year and will definitely be making more than 2.5 mil.
Trade Kenshin Kawakami, Brandon Hicks, and Scott Diamond to the LA Angels for prospects.
One, when was the last time the LA Angels actually traded a prospect? Two, it’s been a while since I looked but I can’t think of one of their prospects I would want.
Any more questions?
"I think the Tigers really overpaided here" ... 2/21/2010 by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Johnny Damon signing for $8 Million
Now you have the math fail...
The 2/14 for Vazquez is 14 / 2 = 7, not 14 * 2 = 28.
"Never doubt Derek Lowe's ability to win despite himself."
by EricGreggWasPaidOff on May 11, 2010 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Still…your point stands.
"Never doubt Derek Lowe's ability to win despite himself."
by EricGreggWasPaidOff on May 11, 2010 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
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