Greg Maddux vs. Tom Glavine vs. John Smoltz
by HereComesBream on Apr 20, 2010 3:07 PM EDT
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PrintAll three are future hall of famers, but which one was greater? Here I compare their stats.
Maddux:
ERA: 3.16
Wins: 355
Losses: 227
SO: 3371
Postseason record: 11-14
NL Cy Young Awards: 4
NL Gold Gloves: 18 (Major League Record)
All-Star Game Selections: 8
Smoltz:
ERA: 3.33
Wins: 213
Losses: 155
Saves: 154
SO: 3084
PS Record: 15-4
Cy Young: One
GG: I could not find out how many GG he had. However, he did earn a Silver Slugger in 1997.
All-star: 8
Now for Glavine:
ERA: 3.54
Wins: 305
Losses: 203
SO: 2607
PS Record: 14-16
Cy Young: 2
GG: Again, I couldn't find how many Gold Gloves he had, but he also had a few Silver Sluggers to add to his Cooperstown resume. Four, as a matter of fact.
All-star: Ten
So, from a statistics standpoint, it seems as if Maddux has a better chance of getting into the Hall. Yet Tom Glavine and John Smoltz were equally great pitchers, and Smoltz is the only pitcher in history to have over 200 wins and over 150 saves. He also has the best postseason record, even though Tom Glavine was the 1995 World Series MVP. Glavine also had more All-Star selections. though he didn't even reach 3,000 SO, a feat that both "Mad-Dog" and Smoltz accomplished. So who was greater? It's hard to decide. I'm leaning towards Maddux. What do you think?
All stats from baseballreference.com.
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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Is it really debatable?
Maddux is going to go down as literally one of the greatest of all-time.
Glavine and Smoltz were good, definitely Hall of Famers, but Maddux is on the level of Walter Johnson. Glavine and Smoltz, well, they’re kind of like Gaylord Perry and Phil Niekro(yeah, I said it), Hall of Famers, but not legendary.
Glavine and Smoltz = Legendary
Glavine and Smoltz should not be compared to Perry and Niekro. Neither Glavine nor Smoltz cheated or threw a pitch that meandered around like a drunk. Maddux is a legend throughout baseball; Glavine and Smoltz were ignored by the press during Maddux’s overshadowing tenure in Atlanta otherwise they would be national legends. I refuse to believe that Glavine and Smoltz are not legendary. Look at the 1991 Worst to First season, the 1995 World Series, Smoltz’s 1996 season, and John Smoltz as the greatest Postseason pitcher of all time and tell me those two are not legends.
by Mr. Glavine #47 on Apr 20, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
And I'm pretty sure Glavine and Smoltz had 0 GG's.
Probably because they were in the same league with Maddux and he won them every year.
Very true
I was thinking the same thing! I’m sure they didn’t mind, though.
A lotta room in right-center, if he hits one there we can dance in the streets. The 2-1. Swung, line drive left field! One run is in! Here comes Bream! Here's the throw to the plate! He is...safe! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win!...Braves win! They may have to hospitalize Sid Bream; he's down at the bottom of a huge pile at the plate. They help him to his feet. Frank Cabrera got the game winner! The Atlanta Braves are National League champions again! This crowd is going berserk, listen!
by HereComesBream on Apr 20, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously..
Maddux was in the NL the whole time, and won 18 gold gloves….so logic would dictate that no other pitcher in the NL could have won a gold glove in that nearly two decade stretch.
"Never doubt Derek Lowe's ability to win despite himself."
by EricGreggWasPaidOff on Apr 20, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Maddux
This is (not ragging on the other pitchers) not even close. Next Question.
by romone_braves91 on Apr 20, 2010 3:46 PM EDT reply actions
At their best, the answer is obvious...
as Braves, I’ll lean towards Smoltzie if just for his longevity combined with post season greatness and excellence in two roles.
How about the numbers as “Braves only”?
"Braves only"
Yeah, I think that’d make this a better debate.
"(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper -- you know he's going to get you, you just don't know where or when."
by Scott Coleman on Apr 20, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Not really
Here are Pujols's stats: 1.000/1.000/4.000/5.000. That's right. He is batting a thousand, with a thousand OBP (naturally), and every hit has been a home run, and thus his OPS is a perfect 5.000.
I don’t really care about the numbers when Maddux was in Chicago or SD and I don’t really care about Glavine’s numbers in NY and I don’t really care about Smoltz’s numbers in Boston and St. Louis either.
"(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper -- you know he's going to get you, you just don't know where or when."
by Scott Coleman on Apr 20, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Ditto
Except Glavine got his 300th win with NY.
A lotta room in right-center, if he hits one there we can dance in the streets. The 2-1. Swung, line drive left field! One run is in! Here comes Bream! Here's the throw to the plate! He is...safe! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win!...Braves win! They may have to hospitalize Sid Bream; he's down at the bottom of a huge pile at the plate. They help him to his feet. Frank Cabrera got the game winner! The Atlanta Braves are National League champions again! This crowd is going berserk, listen!
by HereComesBream on Apr 20, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
watch your mouth
Another uninnocent, elegant fall into the unmagnificent lives of adults...
by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 20, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
By the way...
I named my fantasy baseball team the “Atlanta Mad-Dogs”. :)
A lotta room in right-center, if he hits one there we can dance in the streets. The 2-1. Swung, line drive left field! One run is in! Here comes Bream! Here's the throw to the plate! He is...safe! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win!...Braves win! They may have to hospitalize Sid Bream; he's down at the bottom of a huge pile at the plate. They help him to his feet. Frank Cabrera got the game winner! The Atlanta Braves are National League champions again! This crowd is going berserk, listen!
Haha, nice. My name is Horny4Heyward.
"(Jason Heyward) is like the Grim Reaper -- you know he's going to get you, you just don't know where or when."
by Scott Coleman on Apr 20, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I have 2 teams: The Heymakers and CarryOnMyHeywardSon
by Bmacbandwagon on Apr 20, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I definitely stole CarryOnMyHeywardSon for a couple of my leagues
Another uninnocent, elegant fall into the unmagnificent lives of adults...
by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 20, 2010 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s ok, I stole it too from one of my non-blogging buddies
by Bmacbandwagon on Apr 22, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Maddux, no question.
Although Smoltz was always my favorite (duh).
Another uninnocent, elegant fall into the unmagnificent lives of adults...
Make Mine Maddux
Somebody needs to vote for Glavine, tho.
"It looks like The Hound of the Baskervilles out there." - Steve Stone
"...I'm reminded of Wuthering Heights." - Harry Caray
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Apr 20, 2010 4:37 PM EDT reply actions
Agreed
Almost makes me feel sad for Glavine.
A lotta room in right-center, if he hits one there we can dance in the streets. The 2-1. Swung, line drive left field! One run is in! Here comes Bream! Here's the throw to the plate! He is...safe! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win!...Braves win! They may have to hospitalize Sid Bream; he's down at the bottom of a huge pile at the plate. They help him to his feet. Frank Cabrera got the game winner! The Atlanta Braves are National League champions again! This crowd is going berserk, listen!
by HereComesBream on Apr 20, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
You joined late then!
I started in the days of Pete & Zane Smith, Lemmer and Blauser!
"I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." Beatrice Hall paraphrasing Voltaire. That being said, it is "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln
by Vance in Sacramento on Apr 20, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
My 1st MLB game attended had Hank Aaron and Phil Niekro vs Lou Brock and Bob Gibson
Heyward is pretty good
Well then
I’m jealous. I’m too young to have been to a game where those 4 played. Almost wish I was older…
A lotta room in right-center, if he hits one there we can dance in the streets. The 2-1. Swung, line drive left field! One run is in! Here comes Bream! Here's the throw to the plate! He is...safe! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win!...Braves win! They may have to hospitalize Sid Bream; he's down at the bottom of a huge pile at the plate. They help him to his feet. Frank Cabrera got the game winner! The Atlanta Braves are National League champions again! This crowd is going berserk, listen!
by HereComesBream on Apr 20, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
x2
Almost wish I was older…
Almost…
"I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." Beatrice Hall paraphrasing Voltaire. That being said, it is "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln
by Vance in Sacramento on Apr 20, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
The important question is...
Who won that game in the 1910’s 1970’s?
"I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." Beatrice Hall paraphrasing Voltaire. That being said, it is "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln
by Vance in Sacramento on Apr 20, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
St Louis won, but Aaron hit a homer. I was 12 in 1972. My aunt and uncle were Cards fans, I had to hear it all the way back to Chattanooga, pre-I-75
Heyward is pretty good
One out of 755.
A lotta room in right-center, if he hits one there we can dance in the streets. The 2-1. Swung, line drive left field! One run is in! Here comes Bream! Here's the throw to the plate! He is...safe! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win!...Braves win! They may have to hospitalize Sid Bream; he's down at the bottom of a huge pile at the plate. They help him to his feet. Frank Cabrera got the game winner! The Atlanta Braves are National League champions again! This crowd is going berserk, listen!
by HereComesBream on Apr 20, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
No-brainer.
Smoltz and Glavine were amazing, talented, dominant, and first-ballot-HOF pitchers, but Maddux is on a whole other planet from anyone else. Maddux is once-in-a-generation talent, and I daresay we’ll never see another one like him.
My favorite Greg Maddux story:
In all the years he pitched in Atlanta, I only managed to see him pitch once (for some reason, Smoltz was always starting when I went to games), but it was the best game I’ve ever seen. Maddux pitched a complete game, 2-hit shutout in around 80 pitches, didn’t walk anyone, not one ball was hit out of the infield, and no batter advanced past first base. The Braves won 2-0 and the game was over in like an hour and a half.
I’d like to see Smoltz or Glavine even pretend to have that kind of ability.
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backwards in a mirror." ~George Carlin
2-hit shutout … not one ball was hit out of the infield
2 inflied hits? Drag bunts?
In any event, that is the epitome of what Maddux was!
"I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." Beatrice Hall paraphrasing Voltaire. That being said, it is "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln
by Vance in Sacramento on Apr 20, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I wanna say it was an infield hit to deep SS and maybe a swinging bunt that 3B couldn’t come up with in time. I don’t remember exactly, but I remember that SportsCenter took the time to show every pitch of the game in order that night and gush about how awesome Maddux was.
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backwards in a mirror." ~George Carlin
by FineHamAbounds on Apr 20, 2010 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I remember that SportsCenter took the time to show every pitch of the game in order that night and gush about how awesome Maddux was
I’d love to see that… probably the 1st and only time an entire game’s worth of pitches was shown? I don’t even remember seeing that after Buehrle’s gem last year? I do remember every possible angle of the Wise catch though!
"I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." Beatrice Hall paraphrasing Voltaire. That being said, it is "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln
by Vance in Sacramento on Apr 20, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
They did it one other time for a CG he threw against the Cubs in Chicago in something like 75 pitches. Only a Maddux start could get that kind of treatment, since it took him at least 35 fewer pitches than anyone else would to throw a CG.
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backwards in a mirror." ~George Carlin
by FineHamAbounds on Apr 20, 2010 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
i.e. the 116 pitches it took Buehrle for perfection?
"I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." Beatrice Hall paraphrasing Voltaire. That being said, it is "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln
by Vance in Sacramento on Apr 20, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
infield...
not inflied
"I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." Beatrice Hall paraphrasing Voltaire. That being said, it is "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln
by Vance in Sacramento on Apr 20, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
My favorite story.
He pitched a no-hit, one pitcher. It was over in like 2 seconds.
Yeah he threw out the cerimonial 1st pitch. It was when he number was retired. :) I’d always wanted to see Maddux, so we went to that game for my birthday. Braves won. Was awesome. I didn’t care as much about the game as I did about seeing Maddux.
A lotta room in right-center, if he hits one there we can dance in the streets. The 2-1. Swung, line drive left field! One run is in! Here comes Bream! Here's the throw to the plate! He is...safe! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win!...Braves win! They may have to hospitalize Sid Bream; he's down at the bottom of a huge pile at the plate. They help him to his feet. Frank Cabrera got the game winner! The Atlanta Braves are National League champions again! This crowd is going berserk, listen!
by HereComesBream on Apr 20, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
*his not he.
A lotta room in right-center, if he hits one there we can dance in the streets. The 2-1. Swung, line drive left field! One run is in! Here comes Bream! Here's the throw to the plate! He is...safe! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win!...Braves win! They may have to hospitalize Sid Bream; he's down at the bottom of a huge pile at the plate. They help him to his feet. Frank Cabrera got the game winner! The Atlanta Braves are National League champions again! This crowd is going berserk, listen!
by HereComesBream on Apr 20, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
...
I’ve seen Smoltz and Glavine pitch but never Maddux…shame.
A lotta room in right-center, if he hits one there we can dance in the streets. The 2-1. Swung, line drive left field! One run is in! Here comes Bream! Here's the throw to the plate! He is...safe! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win!...Braves win! They may have to hospitalize Sid Bream; he's down at the bottom of a huge pile at the plate. They help him to his feet. Frank Cabrera got the game winner! The Atlanta Braves are National League champions again! This crowd is going berserk, listen!
by HereComesBream on Apr 20, 2010 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I was at that game too
Me and my college roommate didn’t know each other, so we figured a Braves game was a good enough place to meet.
It was an awesome game. Beat the Mets and fireworks after the game
Could anyone attempt to argue...
That this:
My favorite Greg Maddux story:
In all the years he pitched in Atlanta, I only managed to see him pitch once (for some reason, Smoltz was always starting when I went to games), but it was the best game I’ve ever seen. Maddux pitched a complete game, 2-hit shutout in around 80 pitches, didn’t walk anyone, not one ball was hit out of the infield, and no batter advanced past first base. The Braves won 2-0 and the game was over in like an hour and a half.
is less impressive than Buehrle’s perfect game? In that game, he had 116 pitches including 40 ball, 11 groundouts to 10 flyouts and was saved by Wise. To me, the Maddux 80 pitch wonder is much better…
Maybe I’m biased?
"I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." Beatrice Hall paraphrasing Voltaire. That being said, it is "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln
by Vance in Sacramento on Apr 20, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Greg Maddux is awesome. Your argument is invalid.
A lotta room in right-center, if he hits one there we can dance in the streets. The 2-1. Swung, line drive left field! One run is in! Here comes Bream! Here's the throw to the plate! He is...safe! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win!...Braves win! They may have to hospitalize Sid Bream; he's down at the bottom of a huge pile at the plate. They help him to his feet. Frank Cabrera got the game winner! The Atlanta Braves are National League champions again! This crowd is going berserk, listen!
by HereComesBream on Apr 20, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm merely debating 1 specific performance against another...
How is that invalid?
Fine, throw away the names of the pitchers…
John Doe: 9IP, 2H, 0BB, 80 pitches, 0 balls out of the infield
Joe Doe: 9IP, 0H, 0BB, 116 pitches, 1 history saving catch in the outfield away from a 5-1 win.
"I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." Beatrice Hall paraphrasing Voltaire. That being said, it is "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln
by Vance in Sacramento on Apr 20, 2010 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I know
I’m just saying why do you even try to prove that Maddux’s game was better? He’s da bestest.
A lotta room in right-center, if he hits one there we can dance in the streets. The 2-1. Swung, line drive left field! One run is in! Here comes Bream! Here's the throw to the plate! He is...safe! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win!...Braves win! They may have to hospitalize Sid Bream; he's down at the bottom of a huge pile at the plate. They help him to his feet. Frank Cabrera got the game winner! The Atlanta Braves are National League champions again! This crowd is going berserk, listen!
by HereComesBream on Apr 20, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I = dense
"I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." Beatrice Hall paraphrasing Voltaire. That being said, it is "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln
by Vance in Sacramento on Apr 20, 2010 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
The end of the debate...
I ran across the article a while back, and had it saved on my desktop computer… I had to go find it again, but here it is…
Revel in the wonder of it all…
"I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." Beatrice Hall paraphrasing Voltaire. That being said, it is "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln
by Vance in Sacramento on Apr 20, 2010 6:38 PM EDT reply actions
Sorry, link failed 1st try
"I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." Beatrice Hall paraphrasing Voltaire. That being said, it is "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln
by Vance in Sacramento on Apr 20, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Great article :)
A lotta room in right-center, if he hits one there we can dance in the streets. The 2-1. Swung, line drive left field! One run is in! Here comes Bream! Here's the throw to the plate! He is...safe! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win!...Braves win! They may have to hospitalize Sid Bream; he's down at the bottom of a huge pile at the plate. They help him to his feet. Frank Cabrera got the game winner! The Atlanta Braves are National League champions again! This crowd is going berserk, listen!
by HereComesBream on Apr 20, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Greg Maddux is the best pitcher of the last 30 years
and maybe longer… In fact, he might be the best pitcher ever, when considering eras and other factors. So, this is no slight to Glav and Smoltzie, but I’ll take Greg.
All 3 will make the Hall, and make it fairly easily, though.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Apr 20, 2010 10:49 PM EDT reply actions
I want to see Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz, all together, calling a Braves game
Epic? I mean, Maddux can run with the Braves and the Cubs. Bobby’s last season? How cool?….
"It looks like The Hound of the Baskervilles out there." - Steve Stone
"...I'm reminded of Wuthering Heights." - Harry Caray
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Apr 21, 2010 12:37 AM EDT reply actions
Geez, this is a crazy silly question. Maddux is one of the five best starting pitchers of all-time and certainly the most consistent ever, period. Maddux was the Braves’ best pitcher every year since he joined the Braves in the 90s, including Glavine and Smoltz’s Cy Young years. Just check his ERA+ those years for proof.
Maddux’s number of innings without a walk was 51….and he gave it up on an intentional walk for the good of the team.
Did I mention....
That Maddux ranks 8 on the all time win list?
A lotta room in right-center, if he hits one there we can dance in the streets. The 2-1. Swung, line drive left field! One run is in! Here comes Bream! Here's the throw to the plate! He is...safe! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win!...Braves win! They may have to hospitalize Sid Bream; he's down at the bottom of a huge pile at the plate. They help him to his feet. Frank Cabrera got the game winner! The Atlanta Braves are National League champions again! This crowd is going berserk, listen!
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