Did I Hear right?
by bravestatoo on Feb 22, 2010 6:57 PM EST
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This just in.......(this weekend).....The Red Sox are putting Tim Wakefield back in their Starting rotation. His Age, 45 and he will turn 46 before the season is out. Like our own Phil Niekro the hands of time have stood still to allow him to throw a vastly dieing pitch.
Yes, there is still some throwing it, or at least some variation as the Knuckle curve but largely the pitch is not one of choice. I wonder if there is any teaching in place to see if any of our pitchers are a good candidate for it? You would think that giving the rewards for it there would be at least some interest.
Prerequisites:
Tough skin- Sometimes the pitch will float past the strike zone
Good Defensive skill- some batters will make bad contact...hint lot of "slow rollers"
good fastball (placement) - believe it or not Phil had an excellent fast ball..the pitch that caught them "napping"
Delivery of either a one finger or two finger knuck is more like pushing the ball so the delivery motion of the fastball is readily noticed because the pitch is more over hand. It becomes very important for the placement of that pitch. This placement is dependent on the batters hitting style. Niekro used a fastball as his out pitch but often threw in a curve as well.
I had heard that John Smoltz had worked on one during one of his comebacks I wonder if he is thinking about it now?
My thoughts only but if you have information on anybody to watch this spring who might be trying it...just chime in
thanx
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Only time I heard of Smoltz throwing a knuckle ball
was when he threw one to mess with his buddy Adam LaRoche in Spring Training. He never threw it consistently.
Is your question, should Smoltz utilize the knuck to revitalize his career? I don’t know if he will be effective enough with it to do so, especially seeing as how well he can pitch when healthy last season.
by Andy Braves Fan on Feb 22, 2010 7:18 PM EST reply actions
Smoltz did use to experiment with a knuckler in games,
but every time he threw it, it got crushed.
The third-base umpire ran into the outfield and retrieved the biggest chunk. "It's a f***in' potato."
by alligatorimpersonator on Feb 22, 2010 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
I wasn't sure how to respond to this post...
so here’s a sweet video that’s in a different language with weird music that shows the knuckler in slow-mo striking out Yankees.
The third-base umpire ran into the outfield and retrieved the biggest chunk. "It's a f***in' potato."
by alligatorimpersonator on Feb 22, 2010 7:28 PM EST reply actions
Did I read this right?
Yes, there is still some throwing it, or at least some variation as the Knuckle curve but largely the pitch is not one of choice. I wonder if there is any teaching in place to see if any of our pitchers are a good candidate for it? You would think that giving the rewards for it there would be at least some interest.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Feb 22, 2010 7:38 PM EST reply actions
That’s a better question.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Feb 22, 2010 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
its worse the 2nd time u read it…
Pujols is NOT God.... sure he'll hit .350, hit 50 bombs, and drive in a 125....but then again...so will Heyward..
by lemke2blauser2bream on Feb 25, 2010 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
rushed, explanation to follow
Sorry all english critics, I was rushing to get it written. My kid was causing a family crises in the kitchen and the misses was asking me (yelling) for assistance!
Edited for your reading pleasure;
Yes, there are some still throwing it, or at least some variation (the Knuckle curve) but largely the pitch is not one of choice. I wonder if there is any teaching in place to see if any of our pitchers are a good candidate for it? You would think that given the rewards for it there would be at least some interest.
by bravestatoo on Feb 22, 2010 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
That’s much better.
Thanks!
:)
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Feb 22, 2010 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
Is Lance Niekro still in our system somewhere trying to reinvent himself as a knuckler? I know he came in either before this season or before the 08 season, does anybody know how that little experiment is coming along (I’m looking at you, cb)?
He was a free agent at the end of the year and as far as I know he wasn’t re-signed. I don’t think the Braves were too thrilled with the results, kind of got kicked around in the GCL.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
I read on Wik
It says that Phil has been toutoring Lance…don’t know if he switched from SF to our system though.
by bravestatoo on Feb 22, 2010 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
If who switched? Phil has worked with the Braves in early ST for years. He was there a little longer last year to work with Lance, but he was still gone by the time the Minor League games started up.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Charlie Zink, who is now with the Cardinals, learned the knuckle from Wakefield and is very effective when it’s on. He threw a great game here in Norfolk with it this past year, not getting a pitch above 70. Zink hasn’t turned 30 yet, so there’s still a chance he could have a late career surge like Wakefield did.
The only other guy I know of off the top of my head is Joe Gannon, who’s played indy ball for the Southern Maryland Blue Crabs the last few years. He’s something like 36.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Wakefield
I have always been impressed with his consistent placemnt. A lot if times when a pitcher uses it and his control just isnt there, he will abondon it mid game, Wakefied has been, for the most part, very consistent, and I think that showed when he pitched against us this year. He shut us out didnt he?
RA Dickey?
I thought at some point RA used the knuckleball.
Why would you want the TV and the stereo on at the same time?
'Cause I like to party.
Good call. Yeah, after flaming out early he made the switch. He’s had decent results the last 2 years. Still, not much of a career, and he’s already 35.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
His knuckler is kinda weird though.
He throws it several MPH faster than most, and I wonder if that has something to do with why he hasn’t managed to get too far with it. I’m no expert on the physics of why a knuckleball does what it does (not as straightforward as a curve, for example), but to get consistent movement and have enough control of it, it’s difficult to throw very hard because you can’t grip it as tightly as you would most any other pitch.
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backwards in a mirror." ~George Carlin
by FineHamAbounds on Feb 23, 2010 1:36 AM EST up reply actions
he has admitted that he throws his too hard, but his fastball is also better than most knuckleballers so he wants to be able to utilize that and he struggles to keep the speed on his knuckle down
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Currently in Mets camp
And his knuckler is flatter than Wake’s, but the lack of rotation gives it odd movement and confuses hitters. Which is why he’s more of a bullpen guy than a starter, because once the hitters see it once they wouldn’t be fooled by it a second time.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
The fact that there have only been a few knuckleballers who were ever consistently successful suggests it is a very difficult pitch to develop and master.
This. I mean, anybody can go out in the front yard with a baseball and realize how hard it is. If you give yourself 20 minutes you can throw a passable curveball or changeup, nothing ML quality, but enough to fool a fat slob at a pickup game, but try throwing a knuckler. If you can get one to even go remotely toward the plate it’s a major success.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
I am partial to the knuckle-curve – That was one of my favorite pitches to throw back in the day – granted, when people made contact, they could crush it, but it danced like crazy and I even made one guy duck and cover as it fell over the heart of the plate…I miss my glory days.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Feb 23, 2010 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
Charlie Haeger
Is a starter on the Dodgers who is still keeping this alive. He looked pretty good last year when he got a few chances to spot start, and then not so good in some other starts. When the knuckler isnt working, it gets crushed
I thought hurricane season was over........
Wakefield
also gets crushed when the knuckler isn’t working, which sometimes happens to him too. Wakefield’s fastball is mid 80’s and doesn’t sport incredible motion, but his regular curve isn’t bad. With the mix it works well for him, so long as the knuckle ball works.
by Andy Braves Fan on Feb 23, 2010 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
You’ll notice Wake’s W-L record is fairly even in a given season (there are a few exceptions, I know)… if the Knuckler is working, it’s impossible to hit, but if it isn’t, then he pitches batting practice.
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backwards in a mirror." ~George Carlin
by FineHamAbounds on Feb 23, 2010 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
you are about 15 mph off on his fastball…i just checked his fangraphs page and it says like 89 or something, which is obviously wrong…but too my knowledge he has never hit 80
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
This
Actually played against Wakefield in High School….he played for Eau Gallie, I played for Cocoa Beach, hell of a nice guy, I play in his charity golf tourney every year. I wish every big leaguer was as nice as he is……just hope he sucks when he pitches against us ;) !
by FloridaBravesFan on Feb 24, 2010 1:04 AM EST reply actions
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