Heyward/Schafer 40-man Question.
by dave462 on Feb 15, 2010 7:58 PM EST
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PrintI am very curious about why Heyward is not on our 40-man, but Strasburg is on Washingtons...
Can anyone tell me what would dictate when Heyward would be added?
If they decide they're going to use him in RF, would they still wait until the end of spring to add him to the 40-man officially? Does adding to the 40-man roster relate to mlb service time, or is that based on the debut in the active roster? Any folks with knowledge willing to enlighten me, your help is much appreciated.
If anyone knows the date Schafer was officially added to the 40-man roster, I would love to know too. Thanks.
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Here's what I think I know.
Strasburg is on Washington’s 40-man because he signed a major-league contract when he signed with the Nats and automatically was placed on the 40-man at that time. He also signed a four year deal which would include his first arbitration year if he comes up to the majors really early—-I think the idea was to negate the incentive the Nats had to keep him down for salary reasons.
Heyward was not signed to a major league deal when he was drafted. Hence, the Braves did not have to place him on the 40-man roster. Since he hasn’t been in the minors long enough to be exposed in the Rule 5 draft, we have had no reason to put him on it. Whenever we decide to call him up, whether it be at the start of the season or in the middle of the year, he would have to be placed on the 40-man roster (and the 25-man roster)—-since our 40-man roster is full, we would have to drop someone from the 40-man roster when we activate Heyward, exposing that player to waivers in all likelihood.
As for Schafer, he was put on the 40-man roster when he was activated last year. He has remained on the 40-man—-I think because if we took him off it, he would be exposed to waivers or some other kind of claim. Given that we expect him back starting in Atlanta by 2011, he’ll remain on the 40-man, I am sure.
thanks for the input… got some more to ask
so assuming he were to be our RF for opening day, what reason would the Braves have to add him to the 40-man before the very end of spring?
a similar question… i think we traded josh anderson near the end of last spring. did that move clear a spot for schafer, or was schafer already on the 40-man at that time?
the main thing I’m trying to figure out is, assuming heyward is our opening day RF, when can I reasonably expect he’s on our 40-man roster?
would the braves just wait until the end of spring, or would there be a good reason to have him on the 40-man a week into spring?
i think t
the anderson trade cleared a move for schafer. He prob will be added towards the end of ST when they make their final decision at that time they will also place someone on waivers to move
btw use the reply button to reply to comments
by drumzalicious on Feb 15, 2010 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
options
MLB traderumors has a list of players that are out of options. Melky is our only player on the list. If he is sent down to the minors he would have to pass waivors. Does the 40 man roster trump the options count? I know several players with 5 years in the minors were put on the 40 man roster to protect them from the rule 5 draft, named rule 5 because of 5 years. If a player has less than 5 years and is on the 40 man, could he be taken off the 40 man and an option to the minors be used? Sorry for the roundabout question.
i believe
the waiver thing does only count towards players without options.
by drumzalicious on Feb 15, 2010 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
See PWHjort...
options just mean you can send them to the minors (meaning not on the 25 man roster). The 40 man roster is different.
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 16, 2010 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
No, if you take any player off your 40-man roster, he has to pass through waivers first.
http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/
The rule V draft is not named that for ant reason involving five years. It was simply the logical follow up name to the rule IV draft (the amateur draft).
Players signed at the age of 18 and under are eligible for the rule V draft after 5 years in the organization, players signed at 19 or over need only 4.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 16, 2010 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
so assuming he were to be our RF for opening day, what reason would the Braves have to add him to the 40-man before the very end of spring?
They wouldn’t have any reason to do so. And they wouldn’t do it anyway until it’s absolutely necessary. You don’t add a player to the 40-man roster until then, because you run the risk of burning an option or service time if some unforeseen circumstance arises.
If Jason Heyward wins the starting RF job out of Spring Training, what’s most likely to happen, I think, is Gregor Blanco being DFA’d and eventually put on waivers and granted free agency, on like the last day of Spring Training, and Heyward being placed on the active and 40-man roster on opening day. That’s basically what happened last year, just substitute “Josh Anderson” for “Gregor Blanco” and “Jordan Schafer” for “Jason Heyward”.
And Cavebird was correct about Strasburg signing a MLB deal. Heyward just got a signing bonus. It’s extremely rare for a high school player to get a MLB deal—they’re so far away, developmentally, that the organization needs to keep the player in the minors longer. It makes more sense for the Nationals to give Strasburg a MLB deal because a) he’s pretty much MLB ready and b) it allows the Nationals to structure the contract in a more favorable manner.
http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/
Agreed. Well said.
Heyward won’t be added to the 40-man until we break camp—-and then we’ll DFA someone or make a trade like we did with Anderson last year.
As for high school players getting major league deals, the Reds did that with Wily Mo Pena and that completely screwed up his career because he had to be pushed to fast. After that fiasco, it really, really doesn’t happen anymore—-even the players realize that it will mess them up.
The other possibility is that if someone were to be injured (15-day DL or longer), that designation frees up a roster spot that can be filled (a “41st” player on the 40-man roster, if you follow me) for the duration of the injury. Yet another reason not to make a move until you’re forced to do so.
That actually only applies if you place a guy on the 60 day DL, not if you just put them on the 15 day.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Yeah, if a player were to get hurt, during the season, he is not taken off of the 40 man, hes just taken off the 25 man, and someone else on the 40 man will be activated to the 25 man. An example of this would be when McLouth went down with the hamstring injury, and Gregor Blanco filled in for him for several games. Mclouth was never taken off the 40 man, and Gregor had been on the 40 man all along (playing in AAA Gwinett) they just more or less swapped places in terms of roster spots until Mclouth was healthy again. Having a handful of players who are activated, but not on the 25 man roster gives a team a lot of breathing room during short term injuries and elimiantes the need to make any major roster moves. The exxception would be if someone were to get a serious injury, and there was no one on the 40 man roster who could effectively replace him, then the club would probably trade. And to answer the orginal question, Heyward will most likely be put on the 40 man roster after spring training, regardless of whether or not he gets the starting job, because he will be called up by June if he doesnt make the team out of ST.
Disagree with the end...
if Heyward doesn’t make the club out of spring, there is no reason to put him on the 40 man and expose someone to waivers/etc. He won’t be on the 40 man roster until he makes the 25, whether that’s in March, May, June, or next year.
Good point but I have a question.....
Lets say youre right and he doesent make the club out of ST, it seems like it would only be for a little while, meaning hed get called up after a little seasoning in AAA. Eventually he would get the call, and wed have to take some one off of the 40 man any way. It seems like there is no avoiding that situation if we want Heyward to play this year ( and I think we all do.) My question is, and im not being a smart ass or anything, would we really benfefit from having to release a player in May or June rather than the start of the season?
Yes, we would...
by waiting, the spot might clear up for you without having to cut someone. Injury (say to an OF putting them on the 60 day DL allowing a spot to open without dropping someone) or trade can occur, among other possiblities. You might change your mind on who you want to drop off the 40 man roster. All sorts of things can happen between the end of March and the beginning of May, let alone June or July. There is just no point in making that move before it has to be made.
You beat me to this.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
That makes sense
Yeah I had not thought of that. I hope to see Heywrad in the starting lineup on opening day, so it may not be an issue with him
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