2010 NL East - Virtual Reality
I have finally completed my exercise with my baseball simulator in which I simulated the entire 2010 schedule for every single team. There were some minor surprises like the Cubs edging out the Cardinals in the NL Central and some interesting findings like the bunching of all four AL West teams right around the .500 mark. Perhaps one of the other milder surprises was that the Braves barely edged out the Phillies in the NL East. It was probably close enough to be considered a statistical tie, but the Braves did edge out the Phillies by 0.2 wins.
The methodology used for the simulations were to have each team use a 5 man rotation, cycling in the 6th and 7th starter on the depth chart on occasion to make the number of games started for each pitcher a more realistic number. Each team used the same methodology for determining which pitchers turn it was to start. For the lineup, I had each team use its most likely lineup and fielding alignment for each game, bench players were only used for pinch hitting purposes. I decided to run the lineups this way due to a combination of laziness and not wanting to introduce subjectivity to the process.
The simulator itself takes into consideration defense, park factors, home field advantage, splits among many other things. I simulated each game 10,000 times and summed up the win expectancy from each game to come up with a season win total. For example, in one game the simulator might have the Braves chances of winning at 60% and I would award them with 0.6 wins and 0.4 losses for that game. Out of laziness I did not add up all the total runs scored vs runs allowed, though I do have the over 2400 box scores saved up in case anyone has some free time. :)
Here is a link to the final results, where you can see the win totals for each of the 6 divisions.
NL East: Braves, Phillies, Marlins, Mets, Nationals
NL Central: Cubs, Cardinals, Brewers, Reds, Pirates, Astros
NL West: Dodgers, Rockies, Diamondbacks, Giants, Padres
AL East: Yankees, Red Sox, Rays, Blue Jays, Orioles
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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Pretty Wild
Tempted to say you have too much time on your hands, but I’m looking forward to looking at the link. I hope Damon doesn’t see this, might turn him away from the Tigers! I saw another simulation that had the Braves beating the Phillies this year too. Might have been a fan shot, can’t remember. Thanks for sharing.
Joe Morgan has an idea of where you can stick your simulator. :P
"My God! Good news fans, the Braves are showing signs of life for the first time in weeks. As a matter of fact, they appear to be beating the crap out of each other."
Consistency. Dave Concepcion. I’m not going to read “Moneyball”.
I thought about posting an entire FJM article. Figure I’d just stick to three classic Joe quotes.
http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/
+1
The best is the fact that he thinks Beane wrote Moneyball himself.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Feb 18, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
Does that mean we get the Cubs in the 1st round? :)
Pujols is NOT God.... sure he'll hit .350, hit 50 bombs, and drive in a 125....but then again...so will Heyward..
by lemke2blauser2bream on Feb 15, 2010 4:16 PM EST reply actions
Not again!!!
Suppressed…2003 memories…
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Feb 15, 2010 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
Rotation
FWIW, here is the rotation depth chart I used for the Braves. The higher up on the list – the more starts given. Not totally important if there are some minor errors.
Derek Lowe
Jair Jurrjens
Tim Hudson
Tommy Hanson
Kenshin Kawakami
Jo-Jo Reyes
Tony Armas
I bet Medlen gets more starts than JoJo or Tony Armas.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Feb 15, 2010 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
One of
the hardest things about this was coming up with a starting rotation depth chart seven deep for each team. Once you get near the replacement level pitchers it doesn’t matter much though.
vr, Xei
Maybe I am just misunderstanding this one, but when we win the division by .2 games (or whatever it was), having JoJo or Tony start over Medlen indeed would matter.
What am I missing?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Feb 15, 2010 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
There is no
major projection system that has him starting > 0 games. If you think he will make 10+ starts and that he is significantly better than someone like Reyes or Armas as a starter then feel free to bump up the Braves win total by 0.05 to 0.10 wins. Chances are you could squeeze that much out of half of all the other rosters, which in the end would cancel much of the gain out. Also keep in mind that Medlen’s numbers as a reliever would suffer quite a bit as a starter.
vr, Xei
Not trying to be a jackass here, but could you explain a little further?
I think it goes without saying that Medlen is significantly better than Armas or Reyes, and I also don’t think either of those two would get 10+ starts in front of Medlen.
I get what you say in the second part, but I think you are seriously underestimating the talent difference in Medlen and those other guys.
Medlen can slip into our rotation and we would not skip a beat. He is at least as good as Kawakami.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Feb 15, 2010 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
I don't really see a question
here other than explain a little further. I will give it a try – but not sure I will be tackling the question(s) you have.
I used a five man rotation for all teams, but cycled in the 6th and 7th pitchers on each teams depth chart every once in a while. The point of this was to make the distribution of starts come closer to mirroring reality than just having the top five starters from each team making all their teams starts. In reality teams will usually get starts from up to a dozen different pitchers (of course a little different for each team).
I distributed starts the following way.
Starter #1: 33 starts
Starter #2: 31 starts
Starter #3: 28 starts
Starter #4: 24 starts
Starter #5: 19 starts
Starter #6: 16 starts (Reyes)
Starter #7: 11 starts (Armas)
If I am understanding you correctly, you are saying that in my exercise Armas should be dropped off, and Medlen plugged into the #6 spot with Reyes bumped to #7 – or Medlen plugged into the #7 spot (in the end, spot only matters in this exercise for number of starts). I am not going to argue that Armas or Reyes is better than Medlen. I won’t even argue which pitchers of the three will likely get the most number of starts. Those of you on TC know your team much better than I do.
What I will say is that if we say Medlen as a starter is a 2.0 WAR pitcher (league average) and Armas is replacement level. A 2.0 WAR (full time) starting pitcher would on average earn around 0.067 extra wins per start. 11 × 0.067 = 0.73 extra wins in this scenario. So, if you believe Medlen is that good you should add an extra 0.73 wins to the Braves total. But if you do this, you then need to revisit the other 29 teams for similar adjusting, which in the end may or may not cancel out the 0.73. ie – A Philly, Marlins and Mets fan could tell me I should’ve added someone to the rotation too. Wins are zero sum, if I you add to one team you have to subtract from others – and vice versa.
In the end, there is some margin of error given the shortcuts I took for starting rotations and bench hitters (more on the latter). If this were my full time job or a college thesis, yes I would’ve interviewed each SB Nation team blog and took polls as to what each team of experts thought the rotational depth charts should look like. I decided to take the lazy way out. Hope you understand. :)
vr, Xei
So, starting Medlen in place of Reyes or Armas will result in a difference that is essentially within the margin of error…
…right?
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backwards in a mirror." ~George Carlin
by FineHamAbounds on Feb 16, 2010 1:52 AM EST up reply actions
I believe the margin of error
should be right around 0.8 wins. So, yes – most likely it is if I have done the math right. :)
vr, Xei
i think ....
it should be more like +/- 10-15 wins. Not knocking your math or your method, but I think margin of error includes all realistic possibility of outcomes (or containing all outcomes 1 stand. dev from the mean). Or, I don’t think that there’s a 70% chance the Braves win 90-91 games. I’ll take the odds on that bet. Somewhere between 80 and 100 (95) feels more like 70%, with no math to back it up.
So who wants action? 2:1 Braves finish other than 80-95 wins?
Thanks for spending the time on this, it’s fun to look at the outcome of these projections.
Margin of error
I quoted was from the output of the sim only.
sqrt((p * (1- p)) / n) * g
p = teams win percentage
n = number of games simulated (10,000)
g = games per season (162)
If you run the 2010 season through my sim, with the same projections, you would have around a 68% chance that the Braves win total would be within around 0.8 wins of the total I quoted.
You are quoting a different margin of error. Good luck calculting that. :)
vr, Xei
I think the big problem that I have (and it may be statistically irrelevant, so let me know if it is) is that we are giving guys with sub-par talent (Reyes and Armas) a combined 27 starts. I find that about as likely as Greg White being our opening day CF.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Feb 16, 2010 9:11 AM EST up reply actions
Well...
You assign the names to each starter below. And try to make it as realistic as possible within the confines of the seven starters. I know in reality there will be more than seven pitchers the starts will come from, but naming more than seven turns this into a research project. :)
Starter #1: 33 starts
Starter #2: 31 starts
Starter #3: 28 starts
Starter #4: 24 starts
Starter #5: 19 starts
Starter #6: 16 starts
Starter #7: 11 starts
So at what point does the specific starter (ie, skill level) come into play?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Feb 16, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
I think the problem you’re having is related to projection methodology. It’s almost impossible to project playing time accurate to each individual player without a crystal ball to tell who will be injured. You play the odds a bit with guys who have nagging health issues, but for the rest, you simply project that someone is going to miss some playing time.
And you do this universally across each team. The odds suggest that each team is going to have at least one starter who misses time for various reasons, and therefore, they will have a 6th pitcher make starts, and a 7th as well. The Braves were extremely fortunate to avoid any significant injuries to that starting rotation last year. And here’s how the starts broke down
1) 34
2) 34
3) 32
4) 25
5) 21
6) 7
7) 5
8) 4
As you can see, in addition to our principle 5 starters, we had an additional 16 starts, and that is with no remarkable injuries. Part of this is Tim Hudson coming back for the end of the year to make 7 starts, but despite that, the overall distribution matters more than the individual elements since it fits within the league wide trend. For example, the Phillies:
1) 32
2) 31
3) 25
4) 23
5) 12
6) 10
7) 9
8) 7
9) 5
10) 5
11) 2
12) 1
And Mets:
1) 31
2) 25
3) 23
4) 17
5) 15
6) 14
7) 10
8) 8
9) 7
10) 7
11) 5
That’s just the first two teams I pulled up. The Mets had 46 starts from pitchers #6 and up, and the Phillies had 39. The Braves should count themselves extremely fortunate if they’re only needing 26 (or fewer) starts tocome from the outside the rotation they’re starting the season with.
And the excess starters don’t have a great impact on the projections because all such pitchers are going to be very near replacement level, and every team is going to have them. You’ll mention that we have Kris Medlen, who should be well above replacement level, but that’s not a big impact either since he’s already a part of the projections. His numbers will project him to throw more innings than anyone else in the bullpen, which implies he’ll be involved in some of those vacated innings. If you take the 150 innings that the 6th and 7th guys are throwing, you increase Medlen’s innings by maybe 40, which is not enough to make a large difference on the entire season. Maybe it’s significant since we’re talking about a .2 win margin, but this still a projection.
Well written
that is exactly the kind of team by team research I did to come up with a one size fits all distribution of starts.
vr, Xei
Got it. Thanks!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Feb 16, 2010 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
Do you look at past injury history when slotting names in, or assume that every teams "ace" will also be their most durable?
It seems to me that your formula is taking the injury risk away from a teams top starters, and assigning it to the back of the rotation types.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 16, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
I look at injury history
a little bit. I want to be careful to not “play god” as much as possible and inject any personal biases. What I did if I felt a pitcher was going to make less starts or perhaps join the team later in the season due to a season ending surgery in 2009, is that I bumped him down on the depth chart so that he made less starts. I believe for the Braves I had Derek Lowe @ #1 making 33 starts. And all things being equal I would place a younger pitcher who might have his innings watched closely (ie – Hanson) moved down.
Looking at my files, here was the Braves (top 5) distribution I used.
- Lowe (33 starts)
- Jurrjens (31)
- Hudson (28)
- Hanson (24)
- Kawakami (19)
Phillies
Halladay-Hamels-Blanton-Happ-Moyer-Bastardo-Kendrick
Does it screw things up that Tony Armas isn’t in the organization anymore?
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Not really
In the end it is the stats, not the name that is important. For a few teams that I couldn’t for the life of me determine who their 7th starter on the depth chart might be, I just threw in a place holder starting pitcher with near replacement level stats. Armas is in effect, a place holder. So in my exercise it has little effect. Like mentioned above, had I put Medlen in instead of Armas it could’ve netted the Braves a few fractions of wins. If someone else, then probably little to no difference at all. As far as why I used Armas, you can thank this site.
vr, Xei
Maybe it's just me, but it's hard to see how the projections for the Giants and Mets are so low.
They don’t really match up very well with must other projection systems.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 16, 2010 11:50 AM EST reply actions
Re: Giants & Mets
CHONE has the Giants with 82 wins and the Mets with 79 (using WAR). But they also have the Mariners with 77 wins (4% greater chance of making the playoffs than the Royals), Diamondbacks winning the NL West and Rangers winning the AL West by 7 games. So, I think no matter which set of projected standings you will look at there will be a couple that stick out as strange based on each persons own belief. Just curious, have you seen any other projected standings? If so, what was their methodology?
vr, Xei
PECOTA is out
I don’t remember all their division winners, though. They’re certainly going to underrate the Mariners, though, since they don’t have good way of measuring fielding.
Pecota is on their 4th update, and they have been pretty wildly different.
They’ve changed between the first and 4th updates by as many as 14 wins with some teams, and there haven’t been many transactions to influence those ratings.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 16, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
I've seen several different variations on CHONE, including two on baseball projection.
In both cases those projections you have are the lowest I’ve seen, and in the Mets case by 4 wins. There is obviously going to be some variance between projection systems, but what exactly is it with yours that makes those two teams rate so much lower than other systems?
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 16, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
I really like the ones Joe Posnanski did.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 16, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
How so?
While his methods are different, he explains them fairly well and I can at least understand the system he uses to come to those conclusions. He seems to be using player grades to determine what types of records each team will have, and while it may be different, the results of his system do a better job of passing the eye test than most.
That’s what I’m attempting to understand with yours, as your article doesn’t really tell us much about the projection system it uses. I’d really like to know what it is with your system that rates the Cardinals or Mets so poorly, so that I can better reach a judgement on it.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 16, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
Re: Joe
Joe’s method of ranking players on a scale from 1 to 80 and then converting that over to team wins is not a serious attempt at projecting team wins. He even admits so. It wouldn’t pass the sniff test on any sabermetric website. But I understand that his methodology may be very simple and easy to follow, thus easy on the average Joe’s eyes.
As far as understanding my system, I’ve pretty much laid everything out there as far as my methodology. Other than showing you the source code of my simulator and projection programs and the output of all the projections – what is there left to show?
vr, Xei
The basic methodology may be there, but we don't have any of the data.
Without knowing what you projecting individual players to do, it’s really hard to make any sort of informed judgement on the results. With CHONE we get to see the exact data that goes into his projections, and with Posnanski at least we know that his system is less about statistical analysis and more about traditional scouting (and he’s got a decent enough track record with his writing to at least make him worth considering, even for the more saber-oriented). Before today I had never heard of Xizzles, and without published data I can’t really make any sort of informed judgement on your system. If you really wan’t a sabermetric site to look seriously at your system, the individual player projections are going to be important (even if it’s only rate stats).
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Feb 16, 2010 3:31 PM EST up reply actions

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