Rule 5 And Winter Meetings Braves-Related Open Thread: Day 4
by gondeee on Dec 9, 2010 8:09 AM EST
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PrintThe final day of the baseball Winter Meetings. It's been a fun one, though just about all the action we got was a lefty reliever. Maybe the Braves will move Kawakami before they move on home.
The Rule 5 draft begins this morning at 9am, but the Braves rarely take anyone, and with a full bullpen and already decent Major League backup options in the minor league system, it's unlikely that the Braves will pick anyone once again. That doesn't mean, however, that the Braves won't have anyone taken from their system. Scott Diamond is the, well, the diamond (sorry) that could be plucked from Atlanta's system. If I was a GM of a team needing a fifth starter, I might also be inclined to take Todd Redmond (though a team could have taken him when he was placed on waivers off the 40-man roster a few months ago). Neither guy is flashy, but both have proven to be minor league work horses over the past couple of years. Of course, every team has guys like that in their system.
In the latest ex-Braves player news, the Royals signed not one, but two of our former outfielders. Jeff Francoeur AND Melky Cabrera agreed to contracts with the Royals yesterday. Francoeur got $2.5 mil, Melky got $1.25; not a lot by themselves, but that's almost $4 million combined, and surely the Royals could have gotten someone "good" for that kind of money. Hilarious.
I just saw that Carl Crawford deal with the Red Sox and my jaw dropped, once again. Of course, this might make Jacoby Ellsbury more available, and I love interjecting his name into every Braves trade rumor. If healthy he would be the leadoff guy and center fielder we've been looking for. I have no idea what the Red Sox needs are, but surely we have another Andy Marte in our system we can give them.
Happy hunting Frank.
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It would be fantastic to have Ellsbury. I done know if we have the ability to get him or not. He would be the first prototypical lead off man since Kenny Lofton.
Has the team
used the box of balls they got in exchange for Loften?
Ahhhh
The Twins just picked up Scott Diamond. Bastards!!
by AlRoBraves95 on Dec 9, 2010 9:34 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Can someone explain to me why the braves or other teams choose not to select a player?
by AlRoBraves95 on Dec 9, 2010 9:35 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think Furcal is too much of a free swinger to be a prototypical lead off hitter. However, his speed was very nice to have.
Ellsbury ain't exactly Chipper with the eye there bud...
OBP of .in the .350s and .330s in his two full seasons.
Between Ellsbury, Cameron, and Drew, I could see the Red Sox moving one, but which one is anyone’s guess. Depends on if they think Cameron is wasted money, or there is still bad blood with Ellsbury, or if they think Ellsbury can be a productive player going forward.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
well our current lead off hitter had a .350 obp and no one seems to be unhappy with his production. The difference is that our current lead off hitter is not a potential 50 SB threat. I guy with speed can create situations on the base paths that others cannot. IMO, Ellsbury would be nice to have at the top of the order.
That's assuming Ellsbury repeats...
…his career best OBP (which is possible). It also assumes that the Prado’s additional power is equal to or less than Ellsbury’s speed. I disagree with that assessment. That being said, Ellsbury would certainly be an upgrade. The question, of course, is at what cost? If he can be had cheaply, that’s great. Somehow I doubt it is true, however.
"the Prado..."
I love it. Did you do that on purpose? You, sir, are a marketing genius if so, but it doesn’t matter. I’m calling him “the Prado” from now on.
In fact, I may just call him “the Prado™” Trademark!
SOCIALMEDIA:"FACEBOOK" DOWN, MUST FIND NEW WAYS TO DEEPSTALK AREA FEMALES FOR HUMAN GANT RON TO SEX AKA DONG AFTER BRAVES ATL LOSSES --CyborgHanson48
I still think Ellsbury will cost more than he is worth.
He is arbitration eligible, so he’ll probably make $3 million or so in 2011, and given his big name value, the Red Sox will probably want a lot for him. If they want to trade him to us on the cheap, I am fine with that; but I wouldn’t want to give up a Delgado or Teheran for him.
I still think the Sox move Cameron (eating most of the contract) instead. I wouldn’t mind him on the cheap either and he would be cheap.
I suggested Ross since they said they wanted a C (We’d get Salty) They also wanted a reliever, giving them Linebrick makes sense in that regard also.
for pitchers, I’d offer Beachy. I wouldn’t sell the farm for Ellsbury though.
I doubt they would do Ross for Salty...
…they obvious want to see if they can finally get Salty to live up to his billing. I wouldn’t have any problem giving them Ross, Linebrink and Beachy, but I doubt that would be enough. Someone else would offer more than that.
it seems like ross is too much of a clubhouse leader to give him up…not to mention he is the best backup catcher in baseball…
by forgotten_glory on Dec 9, 2010 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
How about a three-way trade with KK going to Pittsburgh, Doumit to Boston and Cameron to Atlanta. The salaries can be worked out somewhat to where each team isn’t saddled with more than what they were expecting to have going into the year
Stark says the Sox dont plan on moving Cameron
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
"You look like you should be married to one of the San Diego Padres."
This is, of course, the tricky part.
The Sox can run a high payroll. Yes, one outfielder is superfluous, but they don’t have any particular needs right now except some bullpen help, and they can just sign that relatively cheaply.
Yeah
If Cameron is your 4th OF, you’re doing pretty well.
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
"You look like you should be married to one of the San Diego Padres."
RH, good defender, good bat...
when healthy, he’d be a great piece for our OF. Move Kawakami for him straight up (yeah, they don’t NEED pitching, but he gives them insurance as either a reliever or starter). if not, I’d be willing to part with some combo of Beachy and minor league relievers (Gearrin, Hyde, Marek, etc).
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Assuming your talking about Cameron, that makes sense...
…although if we give up Beachy, they had better be eating just about the entire contract.
Yes, I was speaking of Cameron...
and agreed, the package of Beachy and relievers assumes they pay at leasst $5m, if not 6 or 7 of what he’s owed.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Isn't RH...
but he wouldn’t be bad if the price was Beachy and minor league relievers.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
I realized after I posted this, you guys were talking about Cameron, but he also had 54 & 74 steals in 08 & 09, so he would be a good addition, just not the BA that Ellsbury had. You can learn to live with that, if the guy can manufacture runs in other ways.
Cameron does not have Ellbury's batting average...
…but he does have more power and draws more walks. He does still have some speed, but he is aging. Ellsbury would be better, of course, but he would cost a lot more.
I miss Diamond already, oh well, can’t keep everyone..
"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"
Congrats to him – he just made the Majors.
Bobby Cox, advising Jeff Francoeur about being thrown out of a game: "you’ll probably have to write a $500 check. Or you can do what I do, write a $10,000 one and tell them when it runs out, let me know."
Not really.
He earned an audition in Spring Training and the beginning of the season.
About what he might have had here. Although, he probably has a better chance of making it with the Twins than he does here. But this is no guarantee.
This is true.
The Twins have a lot of guys like him already. I wonder if we would pony up the $25 K to take him back if he doesn’t make the Twins.
Same here...
we didn’t for Osuna from KC last year. He did well in AA for the Royals, but got rocked in AAA.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
You’re right, of course. But yeah, he gets a shot that he likely wouldn’t see this year from Atlanta.
Bobby Cox, advising Jeff Francoeur about being thrown out of a game: "you’ll probably have to write a $500 check. Or you can do what I do, write a $10,000 one and tell them when it runs out, let me know."
Braves select RH Eliecer Cardenas from Minn., LH Rowdy Hardy from K.C. in Triple-A phase of Rule 5
"C'mon Chip!" Bobby Cox
Cardenas doesn't look bad...
if he can get his control back
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=carden001eli
Hardy looks pretty old
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=hardy-001len
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
I'd love to get my hands on Cameron
Ellsbury is going to cost quite a bit and I assume the Red Sox will still value him as if he is there starting CF of the future. Cameron on the other hand would largely just cost a willingness to eat his salary and some mediocre prospects. I’d love to have him manning CF for us and batting 6th or 7th in our order.
Just saw on the Braves site
Fredi is planning on batting Heyward 6th and McLouth 2nd in the batting order. Let the debate and bashing begin!
What manager John Russell thought when Morton hit J-Hey with a pitch, "Would you mind not shooting at the thermonuclear weapons!"
by I Saw Buzz Beaned on Dec 9, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
RABBLE RABBLE VARIOUS ANGRY SENTIMENTS
The South shall rise again! And it will have a tender, flaky crust!
If Nate starts hitting again it wouldn't be the worst thing
If not hopefully that would be reevaluated quickly. Heyward still shouldn’t be hitting that low in the order though. Really wastes his OBP talent.
It is just a stupid idea.
To have your best hitter bat sixth. It won’t hurt that much, but there is not real reason to do it.
Um...
You do realize that it’s December 9th, right? I don’t think Fredi’s batting-order plans mean much when there won’t even be a lineup to fill out for 3 more months.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Dec 9, 2010 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
He can say that in the offseason...
when they take the field, especially if Nate isn’t back to form, he may well change his mind on that.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
And personally, I think the top should be...
Prado
Chipper
Heyward
Uggla
McCann
Almost a guarantee 1 of the top 3 get on for Uggla to drive in.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
I like that...
But it’s probably more likely that Chipper and Heyward swap spots.
I spilled spot remover on my dog... now he's gone.
If Chipper comes to spring...
and shows contact and eye are going nowhere, but the power is down as he’s aging and injuries take their toll, I think Fredi (and Chipper) would be prone to sliding him up a spot, so his .400+ obp gives Heyward plenty of RBI chances.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Cameron will cost more than Ellsbury in terms of cash.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Dec 9, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
Ellsbury is still arb eligible, so he'll earn a couple million
And he’s going to have a significant prospect cost. The Red Sox seem to see him pretty clearly as their CF of the future so it would probably cost Delgado to get them interested. That just doesn’t seem worth it to me. I’d rather pay a few million more and not give up any prospects of note.
The Royals are doing their level best...
to propagate the myth that small markets can’t compete.
I spilled spot remover on my dog... now he's gone.
Small market teams that dont spend what little money they have wisely, cannot compete
I thought hurricane season was over........
by bravesguy311 on Dec 9, 2010 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Of course, neither can large markets.
Just ask the Mets.
I spilled spot remover on my dog... now he's gone.
Maybe someone can enlighten me,
because I just don’t get the whole Jacoby Ellsbury fascination. Even if you discount his lost 2010 (which I’m not really willing to do), he hasn’t been that good with the bat since his rookie year—which is looking increasingly like a fluke. He’s never shown the ability to take a walk, which is the one thing I would like if we’re going to get a new leadoff guy. He doesn’t hit for much power, either (career ISO: .114). Overall, his career wOBA is .343, which is good for a CF but hardly star-caliber.
Defensively, he seems to have been great in 2008 but very bad in 2009… Not sure what to believe there, and I haven’t seen him enough to really judge. Sure, he adds some value by stealing bases at a good rate, but he’s just not a great player. There’s a perception that he is great, though, which is going to drive his price up.
I mean, if he didn’t cost much, I’d love to have him, but I am 99% sure he’s going to cost more than he’s actually worth. So why are we all so eager to get him?
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
I'm not eager to get him.
I don’t think he is a good option at all. Honestly, his career path to me doesn’t seem much different than somoene else that we held on to for too long. Albeit his skill is SB’s rather than a cannon arm.
I agree completely
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
"You look like you should be married to one of the San Diego Padres."
The fascination is...
most think we have nothing in CF, and we haven’t had a legit SB threat since Furcal. See the even more inexplicable fascination with Carlos Gomez as another example of that.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Yea, Sanchez I know where you are coming from but...
I really don’t see J.E. being much different than Young. Maybe I am overvaluing Young but, historically the Bravos have never really valued SB’s that much. Even with the likes of Nixon, Sanders, etc, they were never really turned loose the way they should have been. With that in mind, I don’t see the difference being great enough for what I feel it would likely cost to get him. Of course, new management not withstanding…..
<historically the Bravos have never really valued SB’s that much>
And by historically, you mean Bobby Cox?
I know speed doesn’t count for much for the whole season in terms of wins but it’d be fun to have a player capable of wreaking havoc (in a good way) on the bases.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
I did say new management not withstanding.
It would be neat to see but honestly, I still don’t think it’s going to help win an insanely higher number of games. Overall, my biggest issue is that I don’t think he would be worth what it would cost to get him. i just don’t think he is that good. I think he has peaked, and that what you see with him now is pretty much what you are going to get.
another Carlos
I would probably give up our top 4 prospects (other than Freeman) for Carlos Gonzalez. He is quickly becoming the best player in baseball. I know this is off topic but every time I see Carlos Gomez mentioned I am reminded how stinking awesome CarGo is.
Coors Field
Rabble rabble average player on road rabble rabble rabble.
Dude is amazing, but won’t be leaving Denver until after 2014.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
that rabble rabble thing sure is catching on....
Bubba Sparxxx: It's gettin' Uggla...IN HERE! UP IN HERE!
I think like people said that Jacob Ellsbury will be a more expensive option for us in the long run. Will his production minus the SB be the same in Turner Field?
he'd steal less bases at Turner also...
because the dirt is thicker and the basepaths are longer.
Bubba Sparxxx: It's gettin' Uggla...IN HERE! UP IN HERE!
the basepaths are longer.
WHAT?!? You mean to tell me 90 ft in Boston =/= 90 ft in Atlanta?
My mind=blown.
ATTENTION CITIZENS: DAN UGGLA IS NOT A THIRD BASEMAN. That is all.
wren has left the building...
Bowman has already put up his post-meeting piece on the main website. it looks like any trade or signing will not happen right now.
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101209&content_id=16290472&vkey=news_atl&c_id=atl
Bubba Sparxxx: It's gettin' Uggla...IN HERE! UP IN HERE!
Not particularly news here.
Everybody starts leaving after the Rule 5 draft. The Rangers, for example, have already scheduled their next meeting with Cliff Lee—in Arkansas for tomorrow I think.
on the bright side
just read that artice at the bottom Frank said they may have something finalized in a day to or that will make the club better, move coming soon??? hopefully
by bravesfan1047 on Dec 9, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
How does losing a player make us "better"?
I can see how it frees up cash to make a move to make us better But simply losing a player in a salary dump, I fail to see how the same team without the player is better than with the player. Maybe if it’s a headache like Esco was, but KK isn’t on the roster, so not a clubhouse problem, just a cash flow problem.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Anyone else read on ESPN where Fredi said that Andruw may be an option for CF for us?
PLEASE WREN, MAKE THIS HAPPEN!!!
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Dec 9, 2010 2:03 PM EST reply actions
What I read...
is him saying Andruw’s name has been brought up, and they’re exploring the possibility, same with many other players. I also read that he is probably a long shot (though Wren himself didn’t say that).
I spilled spot remover on my dog... now he's gone.
I didn’t read about the long shot part.
I just read that Fredi said he may be an option, but that the job would be Nate’s to lose…in that race, my money is on Andruw.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Dec 9, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Ah, here we go...
The Braves want to add another outfielder with center-field experience, and Gonzalez was asked about the possibility of Andruw Jones returning. The former Atlanta center fielder is a free agent.
"His name has been brought up," Gonzalez said. "We’ve talked about it."
They’ve talked about a whole lot of others, too. Jones returning the Braves seems unlikely, based on conversations with others in the organization.
I spilled spot remover on my dog... now he's gone.
Eh, the AJC and hot leads don’t exactly go together – especially if this was DOB’s opinion.
Just my 0.02 on that.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Dec 9, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
It's Slim Pickens out there...
I hired you people to try to get a championship, not to jump around like a bunch of Kansas City faggots.
If Chipper were to go down, he could fill the void with Prado moving to 3rd. He’d be a great l/r CF platoon with McLouth. You could ride his hot hand early, and then when it’s time to call up Teheran, or Delgado, or another, deal pitching for a long term CF solution. I just love the idea of bringing Andruw back if he’s under $2m.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Can’t say I share the enthusiasm for bringing Andruw back. I’m hoping for something better than “Well, we had worse out there in 2009”. On the other hand, with his tremendous 9 stolen bases in 2010 (his highest total since 2001) that would make him a veritable speedster on the Braves and would have gotten him 2nd place in that category last year on the team.
Or his 19 HRs…which, if I’m not mistaken, would have led the team.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Dec 9, 2010 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
You're mistaken.
McCann gets that crown.
ATTENTION CITIZENS: DAN UGGLA IS NOT A THIRD BASEMAN. That is all.
Ah, yeah. Ol’ Heap.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Dec 9, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
Actually...
Uggla easily gets that honor. Obv not as a member of the Braves last year, but going forward. I just mention it since you’re talking about hypothetically having Andruw on the team and suddently begin the HR leader.
Of all of the Braves who were on the team last year, AJ would have led them in HRs hit, except for Heap. I am not talking about going forward.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Dec 10, 2010 12:30 AM EST up reply actions
sigh
im not so enthused about Andruw returning to our team. I would rather a full-time option than a platoon. Im tired of platoons!!!!
by drumzalicious on Dec 9, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
+100000000000
with all ourmimors depth why is it so hard to get a quality starting cf? one that isnt coming off injury or has an array of questions
GSO
Cuz everyone’s stock answers when we ask what it would take for that kind of deal are Teheran and Minor, and those guys so far are worth more than the people we’re being asked to give them up for. I’d move Minor, Delgado, and other non-Teheran pieces for someone like Rasmus or Kemp, but those guys are off the table, and guys like Lorenzo Cain are not worth surrendering Teheran, Minor, or Delgado.
ATTENTION CITIZENS: DAN UGGLA IS NOT A THIRD BASEMAN. That is all.
This.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Dec 9, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
So play AJ full time.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Dec 9, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
Whether you'd rather or not, you ain't getting it...
they keep saying McLouth in CF, with the kids competing. It’s pretty clear they aren’t targetting a full time, long term option for CF.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Except Fredi said that they have talked about it…
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Dec 9, 2010 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
Disregard…
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Dec 9, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
Was about to say...
they’ve talked about CFs, but not about bringing one in to start from the sound of it. They are all talking like it’s McLouth’s to lose (and I know, public talk isn’t always truthful).
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
We have our moments.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Dec 9, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
I guess I'm a homer
I’m a Braves fan. I would be absolutely fine with Andruw coming back. Same with Schafer and Young. I’d rather see talent developed by the Braves playing than Ellsbury or Cain. Lots of responses about lack of experience with Schafer and Young, but we’re talking about 4th OFers, let them get some experience, maybe they can pay off next year when McLouth is finally gone. Andruw sounds like a long shot at best, so I’m hoping ST finds us hearing about how well Schafer and Young are playing.
Free Matt Young!
Am I the only one who thinks Shafer deserves a chance to show what he can do if he really is healthy now?
by JonnyBravesFan on Dec 9, 2010 5:01 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Based on the fact...
That he played lights-out for the Spring Training and four regular season games he played in before getting hurt.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
I expect him to make regular appearances this summer, I think it’s a matter of when rather than if.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Dec 10, 2010 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
He’s still young, fast and a good defender, he’s been working his butt off and if he can hit like 2 years ago, he deserves a chance to play. If he needs AAA time, that’s fine too. Schafer has always struggled with his K rate, I hope the extra work he has put in might help that part of his game.
Free Matt Young!
His last season didn't help
a .200 average in 52 games with only 1 homer
plus a 25% K rate which is atrocious
by BravosFanatic on Dec 9, 2010 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
Yes
But he was still well within the recovery window of the surgery he had done on his wrist in fall 09. That surgery takes about a year to fully heal, and only then can full strength and flexibility be achieved.
I know.
I just wanted to show those stats. I love how he is working hard and trying to make everything right and I hope He does.
by BravosFanatic on Dec 9, 2010 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
Am I the ony one that can spell his name right?
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Dec 10, 2010 12:30 AM EST up reply actions
Logan.
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
"You look like you should be married to one of the San Diego Padres."
I’m still a fan of Schafer. And it is because I am still a fan that I think he should spend at least the first half of next season in AAA where he can get the regular at-bats he so desperately needs. If we’re going to go with an internal 4th outfielder option, we should go with someone like Young who doesn’t quite have the ceiling of Schafer.
I think that’s a real smart plan. Let Young backup as 4th OF this year, get some experience etc. Then Schafer and Young can handle it in 2012. If they can’t handle it, deal with it later. Needing a SS and possibly/probably a 3B or LF next off season, it would be nice to have Schafer and Young able to fill the CF and 4th OF spots.
Free Matt Young!
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