Winter Meetings Braves-Related Open Thread: Day 3
by gondeee on Dec 8, 2010 8:01 AM EST
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PrintYesterday was a yawner for the Braves. After a flurry of rumors on Monday, we got bupkis yesterday. It does look like Wren is getting closer to moving Kenshin Kawakami.
"We know who has interest in him. I would say there's a healthy interest in him."
Sounds like he's surveyed the field, and now he's seeing how much he can get. I'm probably being too optimistic, but it sounds like maybe we won't have to pay as much of his salary as we thought. That's just wishful thinking, though. I really want the Braves to have that additional payroll flexibility. I wonder if they can take whatever salary they do end up having to pay him and write it off as a loss. Curious.
Matt Diaz signed a two-year deal with the Pirates yesterday. Good for him, but curious for the Pirates. Their moves always shock me and make me say to myself, "huh?"
Today's the last full day of the Winter Meetings. Let's get some action!
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Re: Diaz
Yeah, it’s definitely a curious move by the Pirates, but Matty should get a ton of playing time. Also, I am glad that he didn’t go to the other Penn. team, so that I can root for him without limitation (aside from the few games we play against the Bucs each year).
Good luck in Pitt., Caveman.
"You can't print what I said, but they have to catch us." - Chipper Jones
Best of luck to Diaz. Feels like he could have done better than the Pirates though. At least it wasn’t the Phillies or Mets.
He will be a good teammate for all those young players..
"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"
by bwellnjonesco on Dec 8, 2010 9:06 AM EST up reply actions
Diaz...
Only has a little bit of time to prove himself and get 1 more good contract (then he’ll probably have to go year-to-year). In Pitt, he’ll probably get 400-500 at-bats. If he does well, he’ll probably be traded to a contender. So, it’s probably the best move for Diaz to re-establish his value.
Bubba Sparxxx: It's gettin' Uggla...IN HERE! UP IN HERE!
This
Pittsburgh doesn’t seem like the ultimate destination because it’s probably not…it will give him a chance to showcase his skills, get traded to a contender, and we’ll see where he goes from there.
Even at his age, there’s no reason to think that he can’t parlay this into another decent two-year deal that pays him double what he’s made in the past. In that respect, it may be the best move for him financially in the long run.
With the Braves and like teams, the best he can be (at this point) is a member of a platoon. While he probably won’t see RHP all the time with Pittsburgh, he’ll have a better shot of proving himself capable of being more than a platoon player, which is incredibly difficult to do when you’re in an established platoon situation.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
At least our rotation is primarily right handed, he shouldn’t hurt us too badly.
by king of games on Dec 8, 2010 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
Games vs. Pirates in 2011
May 24 – 25 away
July 25 – 28 home
The birth of Jason Heyward was God’s punishment for the sins of the people in New York and Philly.
Home series...
Should have a Matt Diaz Appreciation Day!!
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Apparently...
Diaz turned down more money from the Dodgers. He wanted to stay on the east coast and train in Florida (per Jayson Stark)
"You can't print what I said, but they have to catch us." - Chipper Jones
On Kawakami:
If a team gets him for 1-2mil, that would be an absolute steal. He had a rough year last year, but he was pretty good for us the year before. When he gets his confidence back he could be a low-end number three or at least a good number four starter.
"There's a healthy interest in him"...
as long as the Braves pay all of his salary :)
I know, shocking isn’t it? There’s interest in a decent starting pitcher you don’t have to pay.
by king of games on Dec 8, 2010 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
Well obviously.
He’d actually be a great deal for 4-5 million, too, but given that the Braves have absolutely zero leverage in this scenario there’s no way a team pays that much. We’ll be lucky if they take on 3 million.
Some team is going to get a cheap, good #4 starter without having to give up anything.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Dec 8, 2010 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
they'll have to give up something
while we don’t have leverage, there will be many teams lining up to take on a good #4 (and GREAT #5) that you don’t have to pay.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Dec 8, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
I think Wren can gain a little leverage by threatening to keep KK as the #5 starter and have Jurrjens take his time coming back from injury. DOB reported today that Medlen’s ETA is August/September, so the surplus of SPs gets thin awful quick, especially if the Braves are actively shopping Beachy (as FW has claimed).
Also, I would love to see a “mystery Japanese team” enter the bidding at $4-5M. Given how strong the Yen is to the dollar right now, that’s not a crazy offer.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
A Japanese offer won't matter.
KK can refuse a trade to Japan just like any other player, and he has stated that he wants to prove he can pitch in MLB. That is why all the trade to Japan talk died down.
Except for KK has used his right to veto an international trade…it’s not gonna matter WHAT we get.
by dunnytwogloves on Dec 8, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
You'd think so wouldn't you...
for whatever reason though, that hasn’t seemed to have happened, or else we’d have moved him by now.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Jayson Stark Tweet:
One of hold-ups keeping #Braves from dealing Kawakami to #Pirates or #Orioles is (what else) $. Teams asking Atl to eat up to $5M of $6.6M
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
"You look like you should be married to one of the San Diego Padres."
Ugh, the Pirates!
I hope he rakes all season long and then gets traded to a contender named the Braves.
If he rakes all season long, the Pirates might be in the playoff race.
by king of games on Dec 8, 2010 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
The only way Diaz gets the Pirates into a playoff race...
…is if he learns how to pitch. It shouldn’t be the offense keeping Pittsburgh down in 2011.
Don’t they have some decent young pitching? I wouldn’t be totally shocked if they were in the hunt.
by king of games on Dec 8, 2010 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
They have definitely been on the prowl for pitching this week — will be interesting to see if their oyster hunt (from the bottom of the ocean) finds a pearl or two.
Bobby Cox, advising Jeff Francoeur about being thrown out of a game: "you’ll probably have to write a $500 check. Or you can do what I do, write a $10,000 one and tell them when it runs out, let me know."
I know a certain Japanese pitcher who could help them...
I spilled spot remover on my dog... now he's gone.
Nope
The Pirates have some decent young hitting, McCutchen, Alvarez, Tabata, Walker, but their pitching is a wasteland.
by Jason Heyward for President on Dec 8, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
They picked up Chris Resop...
on waivers and immediately put him in the bullpen. Enough said…
Who do they have who can pitch?
I don’t see anybody. There’s no way they contend in 2011.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Dec 8, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
Not enough to contend, but
They do have Maholm, D McCutchen, and Morton. They also just added Correia and Scott Olsen, and stalled-out Tim Alderson is still in their farm system somewhere. Not to mention the enigma that is James McDonald.
Not worldbeaters any of them, but if everything breaks right, they could have a semi-decent staff, and their home park will help a bit too.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
James McDonald has skillz to pay the billz….pardon the Pittsburgh dialect. He’s definitely their best pitcher (2.84 FIP in 64IP w/Pirates). I’d say he compares favorably to our own Tommy Hanson.
"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"
by bwellnjonesco on Dec 8, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
If he can keep himself together he should do alright. He seemed to pitch really well with Pittsburgh and their horrendous defense. He just has a history of being Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde more than teams would like.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
I agree with that.
Although, he is just 25 and spent all of 2004 and most of 2005 playing the outfield. If the Pirates awfulness doesn’t catch up to him, he could develop into a really tough pitcher..
"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"
by bwellnjonesco on Dec 8, 2010 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
yeah
in high-A (Taillon) and low-A (Allie) but they’re both 2-3 years away.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Dec 8, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
I’d bet their minor league pitching could win more games than their current major league counterparts.
Paul Maholm
Ross Ohlendorf
Kevin Correia
Scott Olsen
Charlie Morton
That’s not exactly a rotation expected to win 81 games a year. They might be fortunate to get 70.
The birth of Jason Heyward was God’s punishment for the sins of the people in New York and Philly.
Matty to the Pirates……perfect. (I guess.) lol
Now, Frenchy needs to go to Philly.
"It looks like The Hound of the Baskervilles out there." - Steve Stone
"...I'm reminded of Wuthering Heights." - Harry Caray
~
Swing and a drive...Belted right! Welcome to the Show!!!
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 8, 2010 10:22 AM EST reply actions
FRENCHY FINAGLES WILLY-NILLY TO PHILLY
I’m calling it. Philadelphia Daily News headline the next day.
The South shall rise again! And it will have a tender, flaky crust!
Word on MLBTR is the Royals are closing in. I love it when Moore proves that stereotype.
ATTENTION CITIZENS: DAN UGGLA IS NOT A THIRD BASEMAN. That is all.
Gwynn Jr. Off the table
going to the Dodgers. There goes that idea
I thought hurricane season was over........
I gotta say I’m glad we didn’t pick him up. Yeah, he’s got a glove, but Dad kept all the hitting genes for himself.
Bobby Cox, advising Jeff Francoeur about being thrown out of a game: "you’ll probably have to write a $500 check. Or you can do what I do, write a $10,000 one and tell them when it runs out, let me know."
Yea i wasnt keen on him either, but we do need to improve our defense
I thought hurricane season was over........
by bravesguy311 on Dec 8, 2010 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
For $675k
It might have been worth taking a shot. After all, we’re not really trying to depend on a defensive 4th OF for offensive production.
He wasn’t supposed to hit. Just come in in the 7th inning, shift McLouth to LF, Prado to 2b to make the overall defense better.
Don't kiss an ass if it's in the process of shitting on you.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
Cubs sign Carlos Pena for one year, $10 million.
The birth of Jason Heyward was God’s punishment for the sins of the people in New York and Philly.
Lesson boys and girls...
don’t hit .196 in a walk year
As bad at that .196 looks, he still hit 28 homers, had 84 RBI’s and had an OBP of .325. I think he can still afford to live comfortably with that $10 million.
by michaelcooksey on Dec 8, 2010 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
He was looking for 2-3 years though, so he put himself immediately into another walk year situation…
well 2 things
1. He will be the 2nd best 1b if Pujols and Agonz get extended
2. His babip was like .222
by drumzalicious on Dec 8, 2010 1:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Aging slugger losing bat speed...
that babip isn’t luck, he’s just getting old and was never that good. His career season 4 years ago was great, but he’s dropped significantly since.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
$10M is still a ton. I can’t believe a guy that hit under the mendoza line would get a eight figure deal. Granted he had a ridiculously low BABIP (something like .220) and is pretty good defensively.
Plus, he will be the cream of the 2012 1st base free agent crop instead of being in the middle of a great 1st baseman free agent class this year (assuming Pujols and AGonz sign extensions and something happens with Prince Fielder).
"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"
by bwellnjonesco on Dec 8, 2010 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
MLBTR says Frenchy to the Royals is close to getting done. In other news, the sun rose in the east today.
"I should have followed Rhyno's advice..." Mr. Sanchez 06/18/2010
MLBTR...
still says, via mark bowman, that braves and brewers still discussing OF/SP swap.
Bubba Sparxxx: It's gettin' Uggla...IN HERE! UP IN HERE!
Yea, and apparently they wanted Minor for Cain…come on man
by michaelcooksey on Dec 8, 2010 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
BrewCrew: would rather move Carlos Gomez instead of Cain (duh). FW better say “No thanks.”
Bobby Cox, advising Jeff Francoeur about being thrown out of a game: "you’ll probably have to write a $500 check. Or you can do what I do, write a $10,000 one and tell them when it runs out, let me know."
Gomez
for JJ Hoover might be acceptable. But Beachy for Cain seems like the most likely scenario.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Dec 8, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
Ugh
Gomez offers no value we don’t already have in Jordan Schafer, other than a handful of SBs. The idea of giving up a chip we could use to leverage another deal (which would almost have to be better than Gomez for Hoover) pains me.
I still cannot fathom how people perceive Gomez to have any value at all, other than that of a defensive replacement. You don’t trade a decent prospect for two innings of defense.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Beachy/Cain
Seems pretty fair…
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Hmmm…and now the Natinals appear close to signing Adam LaRoche to man 1B for them.
Shit, they always play the Braves tough, even with crappy players. Zimmerman, Werth and LaRoche in the 3, 4, 5 hole is actually a little scary.
"I should have followed Rhyno's advice..." Mr. Sanchez 06/18/2010
Well, with good player we should play them tougher I would think. The Marlins got worse, they’re the ones we really need to worry about now.
by king of games on Dec 8, 2010 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
LaRoche...
is a perfect fit for them. He’s plenty of LH protection for Werth and Zimmerman. Plus, they need a vacuum cleaner at 1B who can cut down on Ian Desmond’s shotgun-like throwing aim.
per MLBTR: Braves and Pirates still discussing KK trade..
really a trade? were gonna get something back??? If anyone can do this Frankie can.
The poster formerly known as: SidKotchman
by SidGlaus on Dec 8, 2010 12:54 PM EST reply actions
KK is not a valueless as everyone seems to think. His 2009 numbers were actually very good.
by king of games on Dec 8, 2010 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
KK for Diaz!
I’m calling it.
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
by MBL1 on Dec 8, 2010 1:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think he gets traded for ~$4M and that LH pen arm FW mentioned
"I have a dream that one day our twelve pitchers will one day play in a city where they will not be judged by statistics but by the quality and consistancy of their pitches." - MLK, Jr.
lol
KK, McLouth, Jurrjens, Beachy, Pastornicky, Vizcaino, 10 mil for McCutchen
by drumzalicious on Dec 8, 2010 1:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
McCutchen is one of the very few guys I would deal Teheran+ for.
"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"
by bwellnjonesco on Dec 8, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
Glad you’re not GM of the Braves.
Teheran seems squarely in the untouchable category.
Even for the purpose of idle rosterbatory fantasies, I don’t really understand why this seems like such a foreign concept. I mean – to me – its kinda like saying I’d deal Teheran for the reincarnation of Ted Williams when I do not believe that reincarnation has any basis whatsover in reality.
If I was the GM, we would have the greatest team ever. Just check out at my MLB2k franchise record..
Chill alittle Dave, its OK. I completely understand the untouchable category Wren attributed to several prospects/players. I was only pointing out the value I hold for McCutchen. Have you ever heard the phrase, “I’d give my left testicle for a piece of that A$$.” Has anyone ever really given their left testicle? In some cases I might really consider it, but Jimmy Jameson is still hanging strong. TMI, I know, just wanted to get the name out there.
"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"
by bwellnjonesco on Dec 8, 2010 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
Didn't John Sickels say...
that the only prospects in the same class as Julio Teheran were Jeremy Hellickson and Aroldis Chapman?
Seems pretty untouchable to me.
That’s Sickel’s opinion, I’d put Teheran over both those guys.
"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"
by bwellnjonesco on Dec 8, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
I agree, Chapman is almost guarantees to blow out his arm sometime soon and I’d give JT a slight edge over Hellickson
by king of games on Dec 8, 2010 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
new idea....
Pittsburgh has made Doumit available. He’d be absolutely perfect! He can play the outfield corners, catch (so the Braves won’t be so handicapped with Ross), and he switch hits.
This is the reason why it’s taking the Braves a while to deal Kawakami. They’re trying to get Doumit back.
Bubba Sparxxx: It's gettin' Uggla...IN HERE! UP IN HERE!
You're right...
David Ross is a complete waste of roster space…
The point is ross’s bat can’t get used since he’s the backup catcher. This would allow you to actually use him more often.
Meh
Not much of a hitter and stretched defensively at either C or OF. Plus, he’ll cost almost as much as KK. Pass.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
He signed for 3yrs $11mil, so he would cost approximately half of KK. Most likely we’ll end up taking on Doumit and eating a bit less of KK’s contract.
by king of games on Dec 8, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
Signed through 2011, by the way, so this would be his last year.
by king of games on Dec 8, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
Just read that
That’s kind of scary. Catchers usually don’t have the speed to handle OF positions with adequate defense. I wonder what his defensive stats are…
Kawakami - 1, Halladay - 0
He played 18 games in RF last year according to ESPN. He made 3 errors.
by michaelcooksey on Dec 8, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
welp
That right there sums up his ability to play the OF
by drumzalicious on Dec 8, 2010 2:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Obviously not a lot to go on from the little he has played in the OF, but I do see his point in being that It would allow us a few more options. If Chipper is unable to come back right away he could play OF some. He could also spell FF days off against lefties if he is struggling, this would be especially big if Prado has to play 3b for a while because I think Prado was going to be one of our backup 1b options for lefty matchups since Hinske is left handed as well. May not be the best option out there, but if it helps us rid of KK then it may not be a bad option.
by michaelcooksey on Dec 8, 2010 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
not implying that....
I’m implying that the Braves never use Ross’ bat because he’s the backup catcher. Signing Doumit, who is able to play catcher as well, would free up Ross to pinch hit.
Bubba Sparxxx: It's gettin' Uggla...IN HERE! UP IN HERE!
I seen one post that said Hoover for Gomez,I hope Wren doesn’t make that move.Gomez sucks big time and Hoover is only going to get better.
Dave Cameron line from his current Winter Mtgs online blog
How’s the food in Orlando?
— Francoeuresque
So it’s expensive, ambitious, and a total let-down?
— Exactly.
Bobby Cox, advising Jeff Francoeur about being thrown out of a game: "you’ll probably have to write a $500 check. Or you can do what I do, write a $10,000 one and tell them when it runs out, let me know."
nice
Still don’t see how he will be making more than Diaz
by drumzalicious on Dec 8, 2010 2:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
How's Dave Cameron's blogging career trending?
—Francoueresque.
So it is one-dimensional, has an over-inflated opinion of itself, and gets more publicity than it deserves?
—Exactly.
NB: I actually like Cameron’s stuff, but this just seemed like too easy a joke.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
I think Wren should wait till after Crawford signs to look for an OF. Some good ones could become available.
by drumzalicious on Dec 8, 2010 2:24 PM EST via mobile reply actions
good luck caveman in pittsburgh
i’d take a stale ham sandwich for kk- good bye and good riddance-i thought frenchy was going to philly the way charlie manuel was talking on mlb last night, but KC is a good place for him too! i guess just as long as its not here.
According to Crasnick on twitter...
Braves are nearing a deal with George Sherrill. He would be the third lefty in our ’pen. As long as it is cheap, I do not mind it. Hope he can go back to his old form!
Yeah, I have no problem with him as a low-leverage lefty specialist.
by king of games on Dec 8, 2010 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
….and that may help change somebody’s name to “every other day Jonny”
Bobby Cox, advising Jeff Francoeur about being thrown out of a game: "you’ll probably have to write a $500 check. Or you can do what I do, write a $10,000 one and tell them when it runs out, let me know."
Probably should have just used our remaining budget to craft him a bionic arm, but Sherrill will have to do I suppose.
by king of games on Dec 8, 2010 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
Sounds like the bullpen is now completely done, and in adding Linebrink and Sherrill, we may be done period (i.e., budget max’d out) – unless KK can be jettisoned.
Bobby Cox, advising Jeff Francoeur about being thrown out of a game: "you’ll probably have to write a $500 check. Or you can do what I do, write a $10,000 one and tell them when it runs out, let me know."
KK is moved to open money for more bench depth...
RH OF and utility IF.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Crasnick is reporting that it’s now a deal: $1.2m and up to 1.4m with incentives.
Bobby Cox, advising Jeff Francoeur about being thrown out of a game: "you’ll probably have to write a $500 check. Or you can do what I do, write a $10,000 one and tell them when it runs out, let me know."
Not a believer of deals till there is the official press release. We call that getting “Furcalled”
by drumzalicious on Dec 8, 2010 11:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If we can only get 1-2 million savings on KK, then what if there was a way to match salaries with Boston for a KK – Mike Cameron swap? Thoughts?
I don’t think Boston has any need for a startter. If anything they’d probably want to unload Daisuke.
by king of games on Dec 8, 2010 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
they had a lot of injuries last year to the starting staff and could always use KK in the bullpen. Doubt it works or is even feasible but since the Braves are targeting another OF with CF experience his name came to my head as someone expendable, sans Brett Gardner
They already have 6 starters under contract. If they really wanted an insurance starter, they’d probably just sign someone like Chad Gaudan.
by king of games on Dec 8, 2010 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry, lol. It looks like they’re currently trying to resign Andrew Miller too.
by king of games on Dec 8, 2010 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
I like the Sherrill pick up.
Now to get a CF!
by drumzalicious on Dec 8, 2010 5:15 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Diaz to the Pirates LOL ? Get the KK deal done
Braves only need to find a hopefully cheap veteran free agent Utility IF although I think it is going to be traded for in the end. Beachy appears to still be on the block as is KK but KK leaving is gonna happen and if their is such a strong interest in him then get the damn deal done Mr. Wren. Dump this bump for Japan, he was nothing when we signed him and some people have always defended him but he is overpaid and lacks the ability to be anything above a LR or #5 Rotation starter on a sub-par .500 team.
Trade him to the O’s, A’s, or K.C. since they have about every Brave that has left on bad terms with the Ball Club since as Frenchy, B. Pena, T. Pena, well some of them left on good terms but Frenchy is about to sign with them and he is a waste of talent and boy oh boy what could have been.
M. Diaz to the Pirates well better them than the Royals I guess Diaz took the best guarenteed money on the table and a two year deal is good for him. Thanks for the years Matty although you were nowhere close to my cup of tea you did very well for yourself through hardwork and nobody can knock that.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Dec 8, 2010 5:18 PM EST reply actions
hmmm
If the Orioles would take Bartlett for Reimold I wonder if they would take A Gonz, Hoover and Pastornicky.
No idea where we would play him but if he is going to be that cheap get him while we can
by drumzalicious on Dec 8, 2010 11:11 PM EST via mobile reply actions
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