Winter Meetings Braves-Related Open Thread: Day 2
by gondeee on Dec 7, 2010 7:57 AM EST
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PrintSeveral interesting possibilities were brewed up as Braves rumors yesterday at the Winter Meetings. Lorenzo Cain from the Brewers is probably the most interesting, as he would represent a possible leadoff man or insurance against Nate McLouth or Chipper Jones not contributing to next year's team. I'll reiterate my hesitance to trade for a speedster-type player, but Cain seems to have some added intangibles beyond just speed. We'll see if there's any movement on that front today.
The front that most of us hopes moves quickly is the Kenshin Kawakami front. It was rumored that both the Pirates and the Athletics had interest in obtaining the deposed starter. I wonder if the A's have gotten tired of Coco Crisp enough to trade him ... that's probably just wishful thinking. In fact, all we'll probably get from any trade of KK is a few million in salary relief.
Anyway, another day of exciting hot stove action. Use this as an open thread for meeting-related chatter.
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Any
updates on the terms of the possible Uggla extension? I hope if an extension is done it doesn’t weaken his motivation to work hard and perform well.
"I wasn’t thinking about it. That’s the worst celebration of all time. I didn’t know what to do. I got lost in the moment." - Brian McCann
All reports have said he’s an extremely hard worker, and super-competative.
by king of games on Dec 7, 2010 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
i hope none
Would really rather not extend him
by drumzalicious on Dec 7, 2010 12:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If anything...
I would think the lack of an extension would motivate him even more, because he’d be playing for his next contract. I’m not saying he’ll lack motivation either way; I’m just saying it doesn’t make sense that he’d lack motivation if he’s not extended.
I spilled spot remover on my dog... now he's gone.
Late yesterday...
The Phillies were rumored to be “in on Lee”. Their payroll is already 9 million over last year’s payroll and they still have 4-5 spots to fill out. I just can’t see it being at all possible, and for the sake of the Braves, I hope it’s bollocks.
Bubba Sparxxx: It's gettin' Uggla...IN HERE! UP IN HERE!
Yeah, that’s weird: on alternate weeks we hear this and the (last week) “that ship has sailed.”
My belief? No chance that they can compete with other offers rumored to exist.
Bobby Cox, advising Jeff Francoeur about being thrown out of a game: "you’ll probably have to write a $500 check. Or you can do what I do, write a $10,000 one and tell them when it runs out, let me know."
I hope so...
with their offense, if they were to sign lee, there’s no way we could compete for the division. halladay, oswalt, and hamels are already enough.
Bubba Sparxxx: It's gettin' Uggla...IN HERE! UP IN HERE!
Blanton isn’t too bad either, though based on last year I’d rather face any of them than Jamie Moyer.
by king of games on Dec 7, 2010 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
The Phils have dealt their best 2 pitching prospects (Drabek, Happ) in order to have Halladay and Oswalt. Plus the money they have tied into Joe Blanton and Kyle Kendrick.
Unless they deal off Hamels this makes no sense for the Phils, you can only start 3 guys in a 5-game series. Plus, Halladay’s low pitch counts allow him to pitch 3 times in a 7-game series.
Pretty sure...
The Giants started four different pitchers against us in our NLDS series this year.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
You are forgetting that monster extension to Howard.
by drumzalicious on Dec 7, 2010 12:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm
not sure Phill will outbid NYY, but you never know. I’m not scared of Lee, his regural season stats average 16 wins and 4+ ERA, let the Phils overpay- he’s aging and has a bad back
"I wasn’t thinking about it. That’s the worst celebration of all time. I didn’t know what to do. I got lost in the moment." - Brian McCann
by HansonManCrush on Dec 7, 2010 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
spell check FAIL
"I wasn’t thinking about it. That’s the worst celebration of all time. I didn’t know what to do. I got lost in the moment." - Brian McCann
by HansonManCrush on Dec 7, 2010 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, isn't the rumor a 7 year contract for him?
If so, let them have him!
I spilled spot remover on my dog... now he's gone.
Apparently someone offered him 7 years at $20-25 million per year.
And it wasn’t the Nats, and doesn’t appear to be the Yankees or Rangers.
Driving up the price...
Pretty simple tactic. If you can make a team spend even $5MM more than they wanted to over the life of a contract, that’s five less than they can spend on other players during the life of that contract.
With the Nats making a strong effort to sign Lee, it makes even more sense than if it was just the Yanks/Rangers (who Philly wouldn’t see until the WS, as opposed to some 18 times or however many it is during the regular season).
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
I hope this is wrong, but it seemed like the Pirates were interested in a bunch of arms yesterday — but at best maybe only lukewarm about OO (a.k.a. KK). They signed Kevin Correia, and are “aggressively” pursuing Jeremy Accardo.
Bobby Cox, advising Jeff Francoeur about being thrown out of a game: "you’ll probably have to write a $500 check. Or you can do what I do, write a $10,000 one and tell them when it runs out, let me know."
Cain
It appears the Brewers want a major league ready starter for Cain, and I just don’t see that as a good swap. Cain is just not worth Beachy, Minor, Jurjjens, Delgado or Teheran in my opinion. Don’t get caught up in the hype machine Frankie!
Todd Redmond?
He’s ML ready based on his AAA perfomrance last year
"I wasn’t thinking about it. That’s the worst celebration of all time. I didn’t know what to do. I got lost in the moment." - Brian McCann
by HansonManCrush on Dec 7, 2010 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
Somehow...
…I think the Brewers would just take Redmond in the Rule 5 draft rather than give us Cain for him.
Be nice if somewhere in a trade this off-season
we could scoop a plus prospect at SS that is almost major league ready. That way we can part with Gonzo after this season. No offense to Gonzo I think for his salary he’s a good ballplayer.
or just sell high on a career year for alex....
and buy low on another ss such as jj hardy!
Bubba Sparxxx: It's gettin' Uggla...IN HERE! UP IN HERE!
We can’t sell high on him – we bought him at his peake value.
No way we get in return what we gave up.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2010 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
Please, for our sakes, we know where you stand…
by TBuzz on Dec 7, 2010 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This has nothing to do with where I stand. It’s a simple truth.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Dec 7, 2010 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
Again ignoring what really is...
No way we get in return what we gave up
Actually, there is a way. And that way is named Tyler Pastornicky (since we wasted Collins on Farnsworth and Ankiel).
That’s not to mention if Gonzalez does as he did this past year, and simply outplays Escobar (at a likely lower salary), and that’s ignoring the “attitude” stuff.
But it’s not impossible that Pastornicky provides greater value than Escobar and Reyes going forward (anyone know if Jojo got hurt? He had just two starts for Toronto’s AA team after the deal. Weird, unless he was hurt).
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
i'd do a
Minor + JJ Hoover + Alex Gonzalez for Alcides Escobar and Cain.
then we could be done.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Dec 7, 2010 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
i wouldnt
Put Minor anywhere in that trade. Escobar is looking to be all glove and no bat and Cain hasn’t proven anything.
by drumzalicious on Dec 7, 2010 12:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
But Escobar is also young and cheap...
and alleviates the problem of needing to figure out SS after this year. He’ll be 24 all of next season, and his numbers the two years prior in AA and AAA make it seem like he’ll at least be capable of getting on base and using his speed (which if he’s an 8 hole hitter and is good with the glove, is just fine).
I don’t think the Brewers would be willing to let him go that cheaply. But if that deal was acceptable to them (which it almost certainly isn’t), I’d do it.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
wigginton....
just got a 2/7.5 million dollar deal. man, that hinske deal keeps looking better and better.
Bubba Sparxxx: It's gettin' Uggla...IN HERE! UP IN HERE!
Wigginton has more position versatility, I don’t think they overpaid by much. Hinske was maybe a tad underpaid, but also not by much.
by king of games on Dec 7, 2010 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
Wigginton has more positional versatility only on paper.
If you watch him play second base, you’ll understand. Beyond that, he plays the same positions as Hinske, all of the corner positions, and like Hinske, not so well at third.
Well the other thing is Wiggington is a SH
by drumzalicious on Dec 7, 2010 12:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
From a team that signed the same guy, but a little better...
in Jose Lopez, for the same price next year. Redundancy!
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
I think they plan on using Lopez...
..as the starting second baseman, lol.
just speculation....
but many executives think the nats are going to throw big bucks to cliff lee.
Bubba Sparxxx: It's gettin' Uggla...IN HERE! UP IN HERE!
Let them
continue to hamstring themselves with bad contracts… Lee is overrated at this point imo
"I wasn’t thinking about it. That’s the worst celebration of all time. I didn’t know what to do. I got lost in the moment." - Brian McCann
by HansonManCrush on Dec 7, 2010 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
Where is this money coming from by the Nats?
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
maybe Boras loaned them some dough. lol
"It looks like The Hound of the Baskervilles out there." - Steve Stone
"...I'm reminded of Wuthering Heights." - Harry Caray
~
Swing and a drive...Belted right! Welcome to the Show!!!
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 7, 2010 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
They have some pretty hardcore fans, if they field a winning team they’ll have money to spend in plenty.
by king of games on Dec 7, 2010 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
it’s still ridiculous that they didn’t keep the name ‘Expos’. Washington Expos even has a nice ring to it.
the name “Nationals,” for a team, is one of the worst names in the game. right down there with D-backs.
"It looks like The Hound of the Baskervilles out there." - Steve Stone
"...I'm reminded of Wuthering Heights." - Harry Caray
~
Swing and a drive...Belted right! Welcome to the Show!!!
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 7, 2010 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
Family is rich...
Ownership still fairly new (mid-2006), old man is getting super old (85) and wants to win now. Son running team, so they’re spending for pops.
But yeah, lots of dough from mall real estate back when malls were new and super awesome. He’s got billions.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
The Lerners' have tons of money to spend...
…and the DC area is not a small market and the Orioles aren’t exactly offering competition right now. The Nats have enough money for the Werth deal, adding Lee, and adding a decent 1B and RP.
I think they could do more than that. Wouldn’t be surprised if they got Lee then went and got Crawford and Webb.
by drumzalicious on Dec 7, 2010 12:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
They need LF/CF/Pitching
C Flores
1B Morse (dude who came up last year)
2B Espinoza
SS Desmond
3B Zimmerman
LF Willingham (but looking to be traded)
CF Morgan/Harris (ya..)
RF Werth
Bernadina
by murph35 on Dec 7, 2010 2:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
They need LF/CF/Pitching
C Flores
1B Morse (dude who came up last year)
2B Espinoza
SS Desmond
3B Zimmerman
LF Willingham (but looking to be traded)
CF Morgan/Harris (ya..)
RF Werth
Bernadina is a quality bat too for the OF
You figure:
Morgan
Bernadina
Zimmerman
Werth
Morse
Desmond
Flores
Espinoza
Not bad, especially with money to spend still. The pitching is still very week though.
by murph35 on Dec 7, 2010 2:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Reply FAIL
Dang it. Mobile commenting didn’t cooperate today. My bad fellas
by murph35 on Dec 7, 2010 2:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i think u forgot...
they got wilson ramos, so he will be playing catcher for them…
by forgotten_glory on Dec 7, 2010 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
Some of this is correct. Flores will likely start in AAA. Catcher is a battle for at bats between Ramos who deserves them and Pudge Rodriguez, the veteran that Riggleman won’t want to staple to the bench. In reality, they don’t think that Morse is an everyday player and would be exposed in a full season and would prefer to platoon him in left. They’d like to move Willingham as part of a package for more pitching, platoon Morse and Bernadina in left and then acquire a serviceable short term option for first base.
The rotation for next year and even beyond is not going to scare anyone, especially when your team is light years ahead of us in prospects.
Jordan Zimmermann
Jason Marquis (last year of his deal)
John Lannan
Livan Hernandez
Yunesky Maya/Ross Detwiler/JD Martin/Garrett Mock/Luis Atilano etc. etc. in fifth starter dreck. It gets ugly real fast if Livan Hernandez turns into a pumpkin or Yunesky Maya turns out to be a AAAA pitcher the second time through the league.
With Strasburg it’s still decent, but the next prospect they have if Detwiler doesn’t pan out of significance is 2010 draftee Sammy Solis or soft tossing Tom Milone who will start in AAA. Pity that the Nats didn’t move Willingham last year before he got hurt as some on this board wanted them to do.
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
Who's in CF?
I’d assume it won’t be Nyjer Morgan, at least not exclusively. I’d thought Bernandina slotted there.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Some think so
Personally, I don’t. At least the 7 year Cliff Lee rumor was just shot down by Rizzo. Cliff Lee’s agent is just trying to take advantage of Nats panic
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
Can't wait for Kawakami to say...
Konechiwa bitches!
Cliff Lee...
to the NATIONALS? Are you kidding me? Rumor has it that they are offering a 7 year deal. I’m beginning to understand why the federal deficit is so bad!
"What happened yesterday is history. What happens tomorrow is a mystery. What we do today makes a difference - the precious present moment."- Nick Saban
In baseball terms, the federal deficit is so bad because the G spends a lot on big money free agents, then in an attempt to bring more people to the stadium reduces ticket prices…
Actually.....
To equate MLB and FedGovUS:
Promise to not only win the World Series this year, but win 3 times THIS YEAR, 4 next, 5 the year after, and so on. When that doesn’t happen, blame a mid-level front office guy and give him a 2-week paid vacation as “punishment”.
Raise ticket prices on season-ticket holders (taxpayers). Use some of these funds to subsidize the daily ticket buyers. Anyone who wants to sneak in to the game is welcome to do so.
Raise concession prices exorbitantly. Issue cards to daily ticket holders and sneak-ins (they’re no longer illegal, they just want the same opportunity to watch baseball) for reduced or free food. Season ticket holders must pay full price or possibly charged a premium in order to subsidize the others.
Monitor every seat for inappropriate words and actions. Establish a framework so that it is far easier and more pleasant to just leave the stadium than protest your innocence in the even of an accusation.
Make deals with other teams to limit star athletes in the name of fairness and league peace. Start by releasing your stars first, knowing that the Phillies will be every bit as accommodating.
At the end of the game, season ticket holders must present all receipts for all charges incurred. If security thinks you should pay more, you’re charged before being allowed to leave.
Parking lot: Season ticket holders must pay an entrance fee and exit fee for the privilege of walking halfway across the lot to the stadium. Daily ticket holders and sneak-ins park for free up close.
Offer free nursing stations for dailies and sneak-ins, paid for by season ticket holders.
At the end of the season, protest that the season ticket holders aren’t pulling their fair share and up their prices. Lower the daily price and shuffle security personnel to cover the season-ticket holder gates, leaving the others more open to sneak-ins.
FLAWED REASONING ALERT
I wouldn’t exactly equate sneaking into a baseball game with illegal immigration. It comes off as ignorant and heavy handed.
And yes I’m a liberal hippie douche.
Its OK dude, some of us out there actually understand they’re only here because someone is willing to hire them.
I would equate this to allowing the non-sanctioned fake merchandise vendors along Capitol Ave onto the stadium grounds to compete with the Turner field merchandise vendors…
by TBuzz on Dec 7, 2010 3:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
geesh, it's just a lark, but whatever, I'll play....
the sneak-ins must work grounds crew for 25c/hr (cash, paid by the head groundskeeper with full knowledge of the owner but nothing on paper) and are allowed full access to all services subsidized by season ticket holders. Happy now?
you’ll accept equating the release of a star player to nuclear disarmament, and you get hung up on a little throwaway about people sneaking in to games? ok….
To continue,
You would need to say that your 25c/hr grounds crew fills a job void no one else will. Moreover, groundskeepers produce mid-level positions(we’ll call these people hotdog vendors). Most economic models assert that over generations, virtually all immigration provides substantial long-term economic benefits for “season ticket holders”.
Retreat, not surrender :-)
We’re both Braves fans, so that’s the number one thing to remember on this site. Your liberal hippie douchiness and my extremist rightwing fascism can certainly coexist when we’re celebrating J-Hey cranking out a 3-run bomb in his 1st AB, or berating Sea Bass for lackluster effort in the final game.
Shoulda known better than to jump on the political stuff on a baseball site; while I have plenty of ammo to argue back with regarding your points, it’s not appropriate for this site or the thread. The fact that we can even argue openly about government is a testament to the greatness of our nation and makes baseball’s place that much better.
The illusory left-right divide is all an illusion anyway to distract us from our real enemies; as we argue about things that won’t change either way, the big boys are free to pursue their own little thing while we’re distracted. Hey, catch that foul ball!
this is just............
wow! i am seriously considering copying and pasting this and sending it out as an email to everyone i know!
But, why wouldn't the season ticket holders just stop renewing their season tickets?
Dun dun DUNNNNNN! climax.
Yeah I just read that too
They’re saying they’re going to offer him a 7 year deal for “ridiculous” money. Not sure what that number figures to be (maybe 7 years, $180 million?). So they’ll lock him up with Werth and have 2 crazy-bad contracts in, what, maybe 3 or 4 years?
“Are you kidding me” is right.
Eddie V
by DolphinNation on Dec 7, 2010 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
Next Congressional Bailout: the Nats
Bobby Cox, advising Jeff Francoeur about being thrown out of a game: "you’ll probably have to write a $500 check. Or you can do what I do, write a $10,000 one and tell them when it runs out, let me know."
Then they have to pony up for the next arbitration-eligible contracts of Stephen Strasburg and Bryce Harper in 5 years?
Alfonso Soriano/Carlos Lee anybody?
A 7 year deal for Lee
screams Mo Vaughn (contract-wise) in my head.
Eddie V
by DolphinNation on Dec 7, 2010 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
D.C.
is used to spending lots of money.
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
by MBL1 on Dec 7, 2010 10:42 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
The good thing about Cliff Lee is
The writing is on the wall – he doesn’t care who pays it, he’ll go anywhere, as long as it’s the top offer.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
If they still had Rajai Davis...
I could see Coco Crisp getting moved out. But with Davis already gone for pitching, I can’t imagine Crisp being available.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Oh my gosh
last night I had a dream we aquired OLIVER PEREZ….and Wren couldn’t have possibly been more thrilled about it. PLEASE TELL ME IT’S NOT TRUE.
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
by MBL1 on Dec 7, 2010 10:42 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I think he'd fit in great....
In our Rome rotation
Baseball is like church. Many attend but few understand.
Wow – you now have at least 4 other contracts setting the bar for him: Holliday from last year, plus Werth, AGonz (pending) and (soon) Crawford. Pujols will clearly be beyond those.
Pujols will be 31 in January. He’ll probably want 10 years — I’m thinking a 9 year deal at about $265m… just short of $30m/yr. If it gets to 10 yrs, it might hit $300,.
Bobby Cox, advising Jeff Francoeur about being thrown out of a game: "you’ll probably have to write a $500 check. Or you can do what I do, write a $10,000 one and tell them when it runs out, let me know."
I don't think it'll be nearly that much.
He’s the second greatest hitter of my lifetime (Bonds), but which teams would be after Pujols? Which teams could afford him?
Both Chicago Teams? L.A.? The Mets? San Fran?
Mets, Angels, Both Chicago Teams, Dodgers...
and if they don’t land Lee, the Nats. Apparently they have some loot to throw around, and it’s obvious they’re looking to make a big splash…and have been since they lost out on Texeira.
Eddie V
by DolphinNation on Dec 7, 2010 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
Why the heck would the angels want him ? They already have a stud at 1B.
by drumzalicious on Dec 7, 2010 12:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Pujols >>>>>>>>>> Bonds
because he is Right Handed and being RH makes it 1.5 steps farther away from first.
AND, Pujols is such a better hitter.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Dec 7, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
no
Just. no.
As much as it pains me to pains me to say this, Barry Bonds is the greatest hitter of all time. He posted a 1.00 OPS every year for 16 straight years. He posted a 268 ops+ one year. I mean, Albert’s GREAT, but he’s not nearly as good as Barry was.
I agree
Bonds was a beast even before 2001. Not only could he hit dingers, dude was stealing bases as well. He was the definition of a five tool player (no pun intended).
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
six tool if you count his media savvy <_<
by king of games on Dec 7, 2010 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
I’m only seeing the Mets and Yankees as possible suitors. Neither Chicago team nor any team in California nor the Red Sox will pay that kind of money.
Yankees?
Why not? They are consistently after free agent prizes. I’m not sure he would go to New York, but I could see them making a play for him if they can free up some money for that Moby Dick of a contract.
My guess...
8 years, $220MM. Average of $27.5MM/year, he plays thru the age of 39.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
My guess is
8 years, $240 million.
Eddie V
by DolphinNation on Dec 7, 2010 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
Realistic
He will be 31 so I would guess 8 years 225 million. That what he should get but I doubt he will get anything close to A-Rod money considering the Yanks and Red Sox are locked at those positions.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
continue...
If the Cubs can get rid of Alfonso Soriano contract, they could be potential suitors.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
Frank Wren on MLB Network....
asked about the dynamic between him and Fredi…
Said they worked together with the Marlins in the 90s. That Bobby is still in the meetings, but Fredi is still the final say in those meetings. Mentioned the respect those two have for each other.
asked by Harold Reynolds about losing Schuerholz, Smoltz, Cox, then Chipper, what’s going on with Chipper?
Rehab is going well, is focused on being ready for spring. Hasn’t mentioned retirement, and is excited for the season with Uggla, etc.
Mitch Williams mentions how he played golf the day before with McGuirk and Schuerholz, asked about Wagner potentially not retiring.
“We’ve all twisted Billy’s arm as many times as we possibly can”, but it ain’t gonna happen. He’ll be with his family on the farm.
Williams mentions Kimbrel as the “mirror image” of Wags, is he the closer?
Says between Venters and Kimbrel, Fredi will have flexibility to mix and match the 8th/9th and not put too much pressure on either kid (sounds like Soriano/Gonzalez two years ago until one or the other takes it over ala Soriano). “the most valuable lessons they learned were spending the summer in the bullpen with Billy Wagner, and what he gave to them” Kimbrel’s mom wanted Billy’s address to send him a thank you for mentoring her son.
Host (not sure of his name) asked about Uggla deal,
They were looking in the summer when it was mentioned he might become available. Went into the off season with him as the “#1 right handed power guy on our list to acquire” after the organizational meetings post season. It happened quick at the GM meetings as they were ready to do something, after “2 or 3 weeks of calls and laying the ground work”.
Harold Reynolds mentions “his buddy Kurt Kemp”, and asks about the farm system and current feeling on the organization…
“Two years ago we made the decision to get back to the recipe that was so successful for Bobby and John throughout that run of 14 straight divisions, which was building with starting pitching. And that was your foundation. We were able to acquire Derek Lowe, and then Tim Hudson came back from his injury, and then the young kids Hudson (obviously, he means Hanson) and Jurrjens came along, and now we’ve got two or three more real good young kids on the horizon to add to that mix. So that’s our primary focus, to get our pitching to where it should be. We think our bullpen is gonna be in good hands with the young guys I mentioned and we wanted to add to our offense. We felt like we let some games get away this past year by just not scoring enough runs and not having that pop in the lineup.”
HR-What are you looking at now
“It’s more fine tuning”. Got Uggla, Linebrink gives veteran leadership. Mentions another left hander in the pen, a RH OF bat, and a utility IF.
Mitch asks for McGuirk to give his shoes back after beating them on the course.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Also,...
they have a live PC on now for the retiring managing greats Pinella, Torre, and Gaston. Would include Cox, but Schuerholz is there in his stead as apparently Cox had family medical issues to attend to. Let’s hope they aren’t serious.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
What was the Nats 5 year plan?
Start off by sucking and landing top draft picks. Then sign one or two solid players ( Dunn, Willingham) so that it appears that we are trying. Wait for a good Free Agent class and pounce on a top hitter and pitcher. If this happens I commend them on their execution.
by Huntington31 on Dec 7, 2010 11:23 AM EST via mobile reply actions
If they don’t get Cliff Lee but have that same money to spend next year, they could get Prince Fielder and have a legit team on their hands. Zimmerman/Fielder/Werth/Harper? with a rotation of Strasburg/Zimmerman/(another decent name SP in the Free agent market next year). Could be decent in years to come.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
It's a lot more than that...
Suck so much and be fortunate enough to draft the best pitching prospect and the best position player prospect in several years with the #1 pick back-to-back.
I am not convinced Werth is the same player when not batting behind Ryan Howard, Placido Polanco, and Chase Utley…
Yeah
Pretty much they got lucky that they chose to stink with those two consensus no. 1 picks
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
Kind of like...
the Orlando magic in the early 90’s when they drafted Shaq and Chris Webber back-to-back #1’s (although they were more lucky to win a 1/64 chance lottery)
Yep
Perhaps the DC markets recent no. 1 draft luck is some degree of compensation for Kwame Brown by the gods
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
Heath Shuler and Desmond Howard...
sucked pretty loud as well…
Ah, yes
But Heath Shuler was a service to our country as he gained the necessary skills to win a seat in the House of Representatives. Desmond Howard was a service to the media as we helped turn him into an outstanding college football analyst.
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
To Kwame's credit
Michael Jordan destroyed all potential that Kwame Brown had that made him a HS-#1 pick with his “tough love.”
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
I wouldn't blame MJ for Brown...
some have that fire, and some don’t. It just doesn’t seem like Brown ever had it, with or without MJ. He’s been away from the man for years, and still churns out the same poor results. You’d think if the ability was there (both mentally and physically) it would have shown by now under one of the many coaches, teammates and execs Brown has worked with.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Even Darko is playing his way into relevance this year. Kwame’s had stops in LA, Detroit, and Charlotte to show that he wasn’t a total bust. He’s failed everywhere.
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
to be fair that was a tough draft to determine who would be good at that moment. The best players out of that draft now is Pau Gasol, Joe Johnson, Zach Randolph, Gerald Wallace, Tony Parker, and Gilbert Arenas (round 2). Only one player was in the top 5 draft pick out of that list.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
Compare that to 90% of drafts...
and you’ll see the same. It’s rare for something like the Lebron, Melo, Wade, Bosh draft with so much top heavy talent pans out. Most NBA drafts are similar, 2-3 lottery picks turn into All Stars, as do 2-3 after the lottery. The rest have decent to subpar careers.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
The issue with Kwame was that he was a high school kid who had major makeup concerns as well
He was a total bust and has barely evolved into a credible NBA player
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
My least favorite word that is used often in the NBA “Potential”. How did that “potential” justify picking Marvin Williams over Chris Paul and Deron Williams. UGH!!!!
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
I’m a North Carolina fan and even I think that was just dumb.
by dunnytwogloves on Dec 7, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
Please don’t remind me. That pick was a fail bomb waiting to happen.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
only thing that could be worst in recent years is Oden over Durant. That should haunt Portland just like Bowie incident did.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
And you would think they would have known not to make the same mistake again. The fact that Oden looks like he’s 75 years old would have been enough to convince me to go with Durant.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
I'm not sure about that...
in the little Oden was healthy last year, he was pretty damn good. If he can ever get a couple consecutive years of good health in, we might see exactly why he’d be a #1 pick (perhaps a Bill Walton career).
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Also....
If the Nats do sign Lee, there is a lot of speculation about trading Willingham for pieces that they need. My question is what are they going to trade for? I don’t think 1B because there are plenty of options in Free Agency. A big slap in the face would be if they went after Soriano to be their closer.
by Huntington31 on Dec 7, 2010 11:27 AM EST via mobile reply actions
One of the moves that has been suggested is moving Willingham to Boston for their blocked first base prospect Lars Anderson
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
Why not just put Willingham at 1st...
and taking the picks in compensation next year?
I’d think I’d rather have a year of Willingham and two comp picks than Anderson.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Personally don't know Lars Anderson very well so I can't comment on what I'd want
Nats have squadoosh at first base in their system unless you’re a Chris Marrero fan
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Adam LaRoche...
Would be a great fit for the Nats. A cheap LH bat who can bat in between Werth and Zimmerman, can crank 20-25 HR (mostly after the All-Star break) and play solid defense…
I don't know about 20-25 HR for LaRoche
But I’d rather have them Pena. He’s acceptable for me and a 1B would be wise with one of their draft picks. Nats will have two first rounders and a sandwich for Dunn.
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
Pena
makes too much sense for both parties to happen.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Dec 7, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
I think Pena's market may have other teams too, though
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For 4 straight years,...
Pena’s numbers have gone down, to the point where if the trend continues his bat will be worthless next year. Why would y’all want him? I’d much rather have even Casey Kotchman, let alone a Lee, Laroche, and others.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Personally I don't want him
But the Nationals have been rumored to want to speculate on a bounce back from him and his better defense.
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
Lars Anderson isn't just blocked.
His production has not been good the last couple of years. The Padres preferred to get Rizzo instead of him in the Gonzalez deal.
I agree
Move him to 1st and take the picks. But does Washington have 1B of the future? I saw Lars Anderson play twice and he had great games both times, but is not necessarily an indication of his talent. But he has been one of the top prospects for the Red Sox for awhile. Might not be a bad move.
by Huntington31 on Dec 7, 2010 11:39 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
It can be Prince Fielder...
or any other acquisition. I wouldn’t care as much about “1B of the future” as the “1B of the present”, because the future may or may not arrive (wasn’t Marte our 3B of the future, or Scott Thorman our 1B of the future, or Tony Tarrasco our LF of the future, or, well you get the point).
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Did you leave out Jeff Franceour...
out of respect?
Lars...
has stalled out the past few years, but the chances of the draft picks turning into real major league talent (such as lars) is not very high. lars will be 23 next year and will be under team control for at least 5 more years. i’d say that’s a pretty good return. plus the fact that it will save them 7 million dollars.
Bubba Sparxxx: It's gettin' Uggla...IN HERE! UP IN HERE!
Yep
That’s the thinking behind it. Tyler Moore had a monster season in high A but he’s old for the league and has a hole in his swing. Chris Marrero has been the first basement of the future but he’s descended into C+ prospect status and needs to have a breakout in AAA.
Lars would be significantly better than what they have. I’d prefer they deal Willingham and get younger. Ultimately, you’ve got two corner outfielders in Werth and Harper in 2012 or 2013. Unless they are really going to get Cliff Lee, I don’t think it makes sense to keep Willingham around for a one year rental and I don’t think it makes sense to go for draft picks if you’ve got to compete before Zimmerman walks and Werth’s value starts to really, really fall off the cliff.
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
another thing to consider...
signing draft picks is becoming quite expensive.
Bubba Sparxxx: It's gettin' Uggla...IN HERE! UP IN HERE!
All of these reasons are why they should have traded Dunn but they didn’t. To me Willingham is a lot like Dunn II. They just don’t compromise on selling high on position players. I think part of a package for pitching is more up Rizzo’s alley if he makes the deal now. I think waiting is his move if he wants to flip him for prospects.
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
Scott Podsednik
I think he would be a good fit for the 4th OF. Won’t have to spend much and he has added value as a pinch runner late in the game.
by Jonesing4theHOF on Dec 7, 2010 11:47 AM EST reply actions
He's fine as a fourth OF...
…but he wants a starting job. He decline a $2 million player option with the Dodgers (where he would start in left) because he thinks he can get better elsewhere. In this market, he probably can.
Baseball should start in February
There is nothing else sports wise going on in that month, just move spring training up to that point.
/Making an irrational comment about how much I miss baseball season. Super anxious.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 12:04 PM EST reply actions
nothing else going on in February?
ahem…college basketball much?
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Dec 7, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
This year was perfect for sports b/c of Olympic Hockey dominated Feb. and FIFA soccer helped during the days when Braves had off days.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
right
Because a majority of the entire country watches the super bowl.
by drumzalicious on Dec 7, 2010 12:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
We were talking about both college basketball AND the Super Bowl.
In terms of viewers, the Super Bowl is usually the highest rated program of the year. In terms of sports fans, I’m sure the number is much higher. Add to that college basketball viewers, and the number is even higher still.
If MLB wants to maximize their audience, it’s already been proven that going up against the NFL is not the way to do it.
I spilled spot remover on my dog... now he's gone.
By TV ratings last year...
it appears around 1/3 (just over 100 millions viewers US, with just over 300 million population).
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Nothing going on in February?
Usually, we just throw parades and get sh!t-faced drunk down here. This year it extends to early March, however.
I need to go to at least one Mardi Gras parade before I die. It’s sad considering I live in the South and could easily go.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
amen
but then it’s the whole Lent thing.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Dec 7, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
I NEED SOMETHING DONE
im tired of waiting _
I pray to Jason Heyward every night
by JasonHeywardisGod on Dec 7, 2010 12:24 PM EST reply actions
I dont have access to twitter...
but is there anyone that’s keeping tabs on Bowman and DOB’s twitter feeds. They put up rumblings fairly quick.
Bubba Sparxxx: It's gettin' Uggla...IN HERE! UP IN HERE!
So you haven't heard KK was traded for Albert Pujols?
I spilled spot remover on my dog... now he's gone.
THIS
How will we beat H2O, Johnson, and Santana? Not to mention Livan!?!?
by drumzalicious on Dec 7, 2010 12:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
um no
Freeman will go back to AAA to fix that hole in his swing.
by drumzalicious on Dec 7, 2010 12:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I thought he said...
Freeman to LF, Prado to CF to platoon with McLouth.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
You would think there would be a Twitter widget on this site that tracks those guys.
by king of games on Dec 7, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Usually widgets make it through the filters. I can’t view Twitter at work either, but I can view the Twitter widget on ESPNs baseball page. This site should have something similar.
by king of games on Dec 7, 2010 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
I love the new offseason schedule.
by drumzalicious on Dec 7, 2010 12:34 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Topic (B/c I am bored): What do you think of the MLB adding another team to the playoffs?
I am for it.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 12:39 PM EST reply actions
Awful idea, takes way too long as it is and pitcher’s arms would fall off.
by king of games on Dec 7, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
I argue that the season might be a tad bit too long and the post season is not long enough. Let’s be real, about 14 teams out of the 30 have an idea where they stand post season wise at the trade dead line in July. Baseball plays 162 games yet you can be out of the post season in 3. The correlation between regular season and post makes no sense.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
not for it
its a big deal to make the playoffs, adding more would ruin that
I pray to Jason Heyward every night
by JasonHeywardisGod on Dec 7, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
How would it ruin it? I am all for rewarding division winners and making wild card teams work their way into the post season. Best of 3 amongst the two wild card teams forces teams to try to win their divisions.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
i guess
what about the nfl system…where the best record gets a bye…i could see that working, but anything beyond one extra team in each league dilutes the meaning of the playoffs too much
by forgotten_glory on Dec 7, 2010 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
nooooo
Rays are about to get Reimold for Bartlett.
Quick Wren do something!!!
by drumzalicious on Dec 7, 2010 12:51 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Not one response to words straight from the horses mouth?
either I’m a terrible note taker, or I don’t get what y’all are interested in.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
well, I mean… it’s typical GM speak. None of it’s anything new. Honestly, the best part was Kimbrel’s mom sending Wags a thank you note. Thanks for the info, though.
Agree
If he was to discuss how much he was offering Uggla or that the Braves were secretly making a move that brought a big name to the team besides Uggla, his interviews will be viewed with less enthusiasm or banter amongst the fans.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
He does indicates the remaining desires...
two we expected (RH OF, utility IF) and one we didn’t (LH reliever). He also gives a little insight into why he’s being so unwilling to part with the seemingly excess amount of talented young arms.
I also found it interesting that they seem to be thinking about a mix and match depending on situations for Venters and Kimbrel, which a lot around here seem to be in favor of vs. a set closer in the 9th, and that Uggla was the team’s #1 right handed hitting target this off season.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
"I also found it interesting that they seem to be thinking about a mix and match depending on situations for Venters and Kimbrel"
That’s true, I must have missed that.
Same paragraph as Kimberly's mom...
Williams mentions Kimbrel as the "mirror image" of Wags, is he the closer?
Says between Venters and Kimbrel, Fredi will have flexibility to mix and match the 8th/9th and not put too much pressure on either kid (sounds like Soriano/Gonzalez two years ago until one or the other takes it over ala Soriano). "the most valuable lessons they learned were spending the summer in the bullpen with Billy Wagner, and what he gave to them" Kimbrel’s mom wanted Billy’s address to send him a thank you for mentoring her son.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
The mix and match closer situation was pretty interesting. The team in my opinion should just give the role to Kimbrel, let Venters and the new guy deal with the Setup role. I actually liked the role Venters played last year as the guy who comes in anytime between 6-8th innings and gets us out of jams and be the bridge to the closer. More important to me.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
agreed
I think Bobby really used him well last year, bringing him in when we were in jams and letting him pitch to RHs often. I’d definitely be in favor of Fredi giving the 9th inning to Kimbrel if he’s throwing well in Florida, with Johny as the backup. But we had a lot of success with the duals closers two years ago, so…
For those of us that are not culturally minded, could you please explain this:
Keith Law: The Braves are exploring an extension for Dan Uggla. This is like acquiring some 30-year-old aceto balsamico and using it in a vinaigrette. [via Twitter]
I hate the Phillies so much...
30 y/o Balsamic Vinegar is too good to be used in salad dressing because it’s essentially priceless. You would be better served in using less mature vinegar to use in your dressing.
How that pertains to us extending Uggla, I have no idea. The Balsamic Vinegar metaphor is kinda dumb, IMO.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Maybe it’s his fancy way of saying that signing Uggla to an extension would be stupid.
Don't kiss an ass if it's in the process of shitting on you.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
That’s the only thing I can get out of it. But signing Uggla to an extension wouldn’t be stupid unless it’s a 7/126 deal like the Nats gave Werth.*
*-Using the figures as an example. Clearly it’s not the only extension for Uggla that would be stupid.
"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace
Because one year of Uggla and then draft picks...
are essentially priceless?
The more I read of Law, the more I’m starting to think he really might let an anti-Braves bias seep through to his writings. It seems like he’s never slow to poo-poo a Bravo.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Not exactly sure what he's saying, but...
There are a lot of fans who are less than thrilled at the prospect of signing Uggla past this season. I know I’m worried about how he’ll age.
Don't kiss an ass if it's in the process of shitting on you.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
Day 2 at the Winter Meetings
has been rather boring.
"That guy mvhsbball is really an insufferable schmuck." - FuquaManuel
by Scott Coleman on Dec 7, 2010 1:26 PM EST via mobile reply actions
agreed
its been a slow day durin classes, and nothing is going on in the winter meetings
by bravesfan1047 on Dec 7, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
I have finals starting tomorrow, so all my classes are just study halls.
"That guy mvhsbball is really an insufferable schmuck." - FuquaManuel
by Scott Coleman on Dec 7, 2010 1:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
finals week sucks, thats mine next week
but yea most of my classes have been study halls too
by bravesfan1047 on Dec 7, 2010 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
Mariners close with Diaz?
Just as long as he doesn’t go to the Marlins or Phillies……..I hope he thrives where ever, just not in those two places.
I keep hearing Diaz and Frenchy being brought up as platoon options for numerous teams, but I’ve yet to see Andruw Jones’s name brought up this offseason(aside from this site). He’s probably more productive at the plate than both and is better defensively than Diaz, and can’t cost more than a couple of million. Braves don’t need him(I think they need a better defensive player for a 4th outfielder), but I definitely wouldn’t mind them bringing him on board. He can play a little 1B as well…..could spell Freeman against tough lefties.
And I've seen Diaz mentioned more this offseason....
…..than any other player aside from Jeter and Lee. Glad to see the interest, to be honest. Bobby gave him a chance and now he’s a sought after FA, although for a platoon role……..but still, lots of interest.
by Undocorkscrew on Dec 7, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
Who would ever expect anyone to say that...
“need a better defensive player” than Andruw?
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 7, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, he hit a wall pretty quickly....
….but he’s still a productive player with at least average range, and he still gets good jumps on balls.
by Undocorkscrew on Dec 7, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
DOB just said...
“brewers dont want to trade cain but have made it known that CF carlos gomez is available”
by Bravesfan19 on Dec 7, 2010 1:41 PM EST via mobile reply actions
How did he do last year?
I cant look it up. Im at school right now haha
by Bravesfan19 on Dec 7, 2010 1:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Same as always....
…..no power, sub-.300 OBP, 18 SB, doesn’t make enough contact….
by Undocorkscrew on Dec 7, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Only if they'll take Cole Rohrbough for him
or some other potential but not living up to it player.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Even without Cain
I would argue we’ll be an improved team this year. I think the improved offense will offset pitching losses.
Frank is telling teams that Jurrjens is off limits...
that’s a wow in my opinion. That means Braves are really not making any more big moves this off season.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
oh and Minor is off limits as well. Man we do love our surplus of pitching. Frank must have Vietnam like flash backs of 2008 season.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
He hasn't mentioned that Lowe is off-limits though...
….so it still could happen. His value may not be any higher at any point than it is right now. Finished the season brilliantly, pitched great in the playoffs, and the market is insanely weak for starters and plenty of teams are willing to spend to round out their rotations….
by Undocorkscrew on Dec 7, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
Ajcbraves:
“braves arent trading tim hudson; that sort of goes without saying. And i dont hear that lowe has come up in conversation”
by Bravesfan19 on Dec 7, 2010 1:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, Huddy is out.
We don’t want to move him and he is 10/5 anyway.
Or, as posted above...
“Two years ago we made the decision to get back to the recipe that was so successful for Bobby and John throughout that run of 14 straight divisions, which was building with starting pitching. And that was your foundation. We were able to acquire Derek Lowe, and then Tim Hudson came back from his injury, and then the young kids Hudson (obviously, he means Hanson) and Jurrjens came along, and now we’ve got two or three more real good young kids on the horizon to add to that mix. So that’s our primary focus, to get our pitching to where it should be.”
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
thanks again. I am totally spacing out on your earlier post. My bad. But we have to ask ourselves, what’s good with surplus pitching depth with no offense to back it up?
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
Uggla, Prado, Heyward, Freeman, Chipper, McCann
as you were saying about the “no offense”?
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
+1
Did i do that right? Havent been on TC since mccann hit that extra inning grand slam
by Bravesfan19 on Dec 7, 2010 1:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You got me.
I was thinking long term (Chipper will be gone, Center Field is a black hole still, SS position after this year). No offense was a poor choice of word considering I did not specify exactly what “no offense” was.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
I think our offense will be better thise year then last.
Uggla was the biggest piece with a RH power bat. If Freeman can do anywhere near what Heyward did we are looking solid.
Nobody can expect Freeman to do what Heyward did last year. Dude had nearly .400 OBP and OPSed .849 as a 20 year old. To expect that from all of our rookies is nonsense. To be honest, something around .270/.320/.420 would be great and great defense would be great for us.
.270, .320, .420 fits in the 'anywhere near' category...
….the above poster was referring to.
by Undocorkscrew on Dec 7, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't have guess that.
.760 OPS is not anywhere near .849 OPS to me. But I’d be happy with the .760 from Freeman.
Not saying a Lowe trade is likely....
…and if it were to happen, the Braves would probably be starting the season with two rookies in the rotation, which they don’t want. Just saying that there’s an outside cance that there’s a team desperate enough and willing to give something of value up for him or take on a large portion of his contract, if the FO feels they need said player or cash to fill other needs. But they’d probably need another starter in that case, so it wouldn’t make a ton of sense…
by Undocorkscrew on Dec 7, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
DOB also said..
" teams asking braves for pitching have been told hanson, jurrjens, minor r pretty much off limits. Theyd trade beachy for the right deal"
by Bravesfan19 on Dec 7, 2010 1:48 PM EST via mobile reply actions
and they should
I think he’s really overrated. He didn’t show me a whole hell of a lot last year and everyone seems to think that he’s going to be a good #3 or 4. He has excellent control, but really average stuff.
Discuss the political feasibility of government policy that would promote greater use of alternative energies in the United States. Include in your answer lessons from our study of federalism, problem definition or framing, public opinion, technological innovation, and markets
Anyone understand this?
GSO
Clearly the best place to start...
…is on Talking Chop!
Summary: Please Don't Just Copy This
federalism : involves numerous government levels all coming to decisions(never easy)
framing: not sure but probably do you see this as an environmental issue or economic issue. depending on how you frame you efforts you may make different decisions with those considerations in mind.
Public Opinion: people dont always support things, even if it’s the correct choice
Tech: the world is changing and expensive: and may have to re-do things
Markets: people with invested interested(electric/gas companies) push for what benefits them and reverse for people who could make money on it
Public Opinion: people dont always support things, even if it’s the correct choice
Ain’t that the truth?
Don't kiss an ass if it's in the process of shitting on you.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
Feel free to throw in… BANANA
Oh, you KNOW that’s what she said!
Don't kiss an ass if it's in the process of shitting on you.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
Looks like they want to know (could be wrong) if it is possible to pass a law or policy that promotes green or environmentally safe energy policies while convincing the public or rather states (the federalism part with federal government vs. states) that it is the right move. Problem definition ro framing is dealing with the wording of the proposed policy to the constituents. Public opinion, tech. innovation, and markets is something that you class probably had discussions with during the term.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
la la la la la la la la la la la
I can’t hear you! [puts fingers into ears]
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
DOB:
“im hearing matt diaz will likely sign within 24 hours. Not sure which team, since hes had interest from at least 8.”
by Bravesfan19 on Dec 7, 2010 2:03 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Wow I didn't realize Kawakami was getting 6.67M
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
yeah and Lowe is getting 15 MILLION!!!!!! What a terrible off season that was for us.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
Explain? At the time Lowe’s deal was signed, the Braves desperately needed a reliable starting pitcher, and they paid the going rate for a talent like Lowe. Has he underperformed so far based strictly on what he’s being paid? Sure. But he’s been a reliable midrotation arm…in today’s market, he probably deserves a deal more akin to the $11MM per annum deals being handed to the likes of Ted Lilly and Bronson Arroyo, but $15 million a year isn’t a gross overpayment, especially not if he maintains his late-season form going into 2011.
As for Kawakami, there’s really nothing wrong with paying $7 million a year for a guy with a 4.32 ERA in his big-league career. Again, that’s the going rate. Just because the Braves are dead set against employing Kawakami doesn’t make him worthless. Some team is going to get a great deal trading for him.
Here's Christina Kahrl of Baseball Prospectus...
…writing at the time both those deals were signed:
“Lowe at this price is a bargain, especially relative to the kind of money that was thrown at A.J. Burnett or has been rumored to be going to people like Ben Sheets or Oliver Perez. Keeping him in the DH-less league for his age-36 through age-39 seasons is a reasonable investment for a guy who’s taken on a fifth of his team’s starts seven years in a row, his skill set has proven to be equally durable, and while the Braves’ infield defense leaves something to be desired, ground balls are high-percentage outcomes that Lowe should deliver with the reliability for which he’s justly famous. As Clay Davenport noted about Kawakami, he may not be a great pitcher, but he stands a pretty good chance of being a solid rotation regular.”
I fail to see how either of those guys has failed to live up to the expectations laid out here.
That is true.
Lowe’s deal hasn’t been as bad as Burnett’s or anywhere near as bad as the one given to Ollie Perez.
Or Sheets, for that matter. Much as it might be fashionable to rail against Lowe’s contract given today’s economic situation, it really wasn’t out of line with the market when it was signed two years ago. The deal is perhaps a cautionary tale against signing any kind of high-end free agent, but it’s not an indictment of the Braves for misreading Lowe or the market (in fact, as those other deals attest, they read the market better than the rest).
Yeah you are right. It was only for four years. Not a franchise handcuff contract.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
But then...
comparing a contract to some of the worst out there, shouldn’t they be better (hence why those are among the worst). Just saying, because they aren’t as bad as those two doesn’t mean their bad.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
This isn’t a comparison to the worst out there, because this comparison was made by a writer long before she knew that they would end up being the “worst out there.” It’s a comparison to the Lowe alternatives, and given that the Braves essentially had to choose at least one of those alternatives, they chose the least bad.
Remember I’m responding here to the poster who wrote, “What a terrible off season that was for us.” I’m saying I don’t see how it was so terrible. Hindsight is 20/20 and wouldn’t it be nice to be paying Lowe a little less, or be using Kawakami instead of wasting him? Yes. But given what was known at the time, I don’t think it all turned out so bad. At least, not nearly as bad as most fans would have you believe.
Today sucks, and here's why
There’s nothing really brewing today at the Winter Meetings, and 2 feet of snow has fallen here since Sunday (early) morning.
F—-M—-L!!!
Eddie V
You have the Heat. Don’t complain.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
Umm...not so much
I’m in Syracuse, NY…the official home of lake effect snow. We’re going to get hammered this week…probably not going to stop snowing until next week.
I need to move…like tomorrow.
Eddie V
by DolphinNation on Dec 7, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
HOYA SAXA! HOYA SAXA!
Not an alum just a DC area fan.
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
Can't stand SU athletics even though I live 10 mins from campus
Duke fan here for hoops. Canes for football. Yeah I know…I’m all over the map, but that’s what happens when you pick your teams at age 10, and just go with players (Marino, Johnny Dawkins, Murphy, et al).
Eddie V
by DolphinNation on Dec 7, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
I’m the same way.
Braves, Dolphins, Suns, Wildcats, Penguins, anyone who plays against the Univ. of MD.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
"...anyone who plays against the Univ. of MD."
Well played!
Eddie V
by DolphinNation on Dec 7, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
Just like most fans with Duke
They’re like the Yankees, typically. You either love em or you hate em.
Trust me…I catch all sorts of shit here from SU fans, until last season, obviously. I had a lot of fun with em after Duke won it all…came in with the “Howdaya like me now” look on my face.
Eddie V
by DolphinNation on Dec 7, 2010 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
Understandable, and it's typical, just like I said above...
you don’t typically see a lot of people on the fence about Duke.
Eddie V
by DolphinNation on Dec 7, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
LOL, same
Braves Baseball, Cincinnati Footall, Pheonix Suns(not really an NBA fan anymore), and WVU football and basketball.
Oh from your handle or screen name, I thought you were from Miami. Yeah NY sucks b/c of the snow and the cold. I can’t stand the cold unless there is a lot of alcohol present.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
I grew up a few minutes south of Erie, PA. They are getting crushed right now. Gotta love that Lake Effect snowband… and that is why I moved south to DC.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
I'm headed south in 2011
Not sure where just yet, but it’ll be out of this crap. House is going on the market in January/February.
Eddie V
by DolphinNation on Dec 7, 2010 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
Lucky. I love snow.
But 2 feet is too much, I’d rather have up to 4 or 5 inches.
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
2 feet is too much, I’d rather have up to 4 or 5 inches
thats what she said
I thought hurricane season was over........
by bravesguy311 on Dec 7, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
sci junkies... damn broken hand
Use policymaking about Afghanistan to contrast rational decision-making and incrementalism. Describe the current challenges facing American policymakers and explain how a rational policy model and an incremental policy might differ with regard to Afghanistan policy.
GSO
My educated guess
Sounds like a definition question concerning the two terms and how it relates to Afghanistan. (Sorry if it sounds redundant) If I were to answer the question considering I don’t know how long the answer needs to be, I would look at notes on these terms and make the argument that conflicting cultures and policy procedures amongst the two nations would cause a significant problem in executing either policies in Afghan. Rational decision-making does not conduce long term success because those policymaking involves fast and quick decision making while incremental policies is based on a fix schedule that could be useless if certain unforeseen issues occur that needs quick resolve. Basically time/speed versus accurate/great policies.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
Are you really trying to have Talking Chop take your final...
c ause that’s damn sure what it seems like. Good luck with that.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
There's a possibility that the Braves could have....
….Lowe, Hudson, Hanson, Jurrjens, Minor, Beachy, Medlen, and Teheran and/or Delgado ready at some point in the 2011 season, while still having Vizcaino(if healthy) available as a trade chip in AAA. I mean, jesus christ……
I understand that Medlen probably wouldn’t be ready until the end of the 2011 season, if at all and the Braves will likely trade one of those guys between now and then. But they’re in such a good position right now that if they need a piece or two at the break, they could easily land it with one or two of those guys. I can’t say enough about pitching surpluses…….
As good as Medlen was as a starter for us, I would rather have him back in the bullpen becoming what Venters was last year. The Firefighter (or the guy who gets out of jams/situations) Bullpen guy that would be the bridge btw starter and the closer crew (ie setup and closer guys).
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
Gonna disagree on that. Starters are always more valuable than relievers, and Medlen has certainly shown he can be effective in a starting role. I see no reason why he shouldn’t slot in as Hanson’s wingman as soon as he returns.
In 2012 (the year Meds will return 95% healthy)
1. Hudson
2. Hanson
3. Jurrjens (could be replaced by Minor at this point)
4. Lowe (last year of contract Yes!!!)
5. Teheran/Minor/Delgado
Beachy waiting in the wings.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
OK, well Medlen’s career FIP as a starter is 4.19, largely because he’s got a career rate of 1.2 homers per nine. Which sounds a bit high to me for a guy with a GB/FB ratio over 1. Take out one disasterpiece start in Arizona—the coziest of ballparks—where Meds gave up three homers in five innings, and his career rate drops to 1.0 HR/9, and his FIP down to 3.88. Which would rank him behind only Hanson on last year’s team.
I think Medlen ranks right up there with Jurrjens in terms of ability and future projection. If the Braves can’t find a place for Medlen in the rotation, they need to either make a deal to make room for him, or trade him to someone who can use him as a starter. He’s too talented to pitch out of the bullpen.
The problem with flipping Medlen in a trade is that I don’t think other team value him as much as we think he should get. He is a 4 to a 5 in my opinion based on a scale of 1-10, 10 being Halladay and 1 being any SP that puts on a Pirates uni. He should get 3 prospects (one B+/B- and a couple of Cs) but that’s not realistic.
Hudson is a 9.
Hanson is a 7.
JJ is a 6.
Lowe is unpredictable.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
A 4 to 5 in what? Trade value? Talent? I agree that his trade value is disproprtionately low compared to his talent, which is why if you ask me Jurrjens should be traded. Rating trade value for Hudson or Hanson or Lowe is pretty much a waste of time, so I’ll assume you’re rating talent, in which case I disagree significantly.
Hanson is the most talented pitcher on the staff without a doubt, and I don’t see any justification for rating Medlen lower than Jurrjens.
Yeah I was basing on a combo of talent and trade value. My fault for the confusion. Hanson is talented yes but he is not better than Hudson at the moment. He could be better than him in 2011 but I have a wait and see approach to that.
Medlen better than Jurrjens is wrong b/c JJ has proven in recent years (minus 2010) that he is a legit number 2 pitcher. Medlen on the other hand is good but has not done anything to merit anything more than a number 4 or 5 tag as a starting pitcher.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
With the exception of a few bad starts
Hanson dominated! It just so happens so did our lineup on those days. I think Hanson is right up there with Huddy.
Jurrjens has a 3.85 career FIP, and Medlen’s career FIP as a starter is 4.19. As I point out, Medlen’s sample size is small enough that it’s significant to remove one bad start in a hitter-friendly stadium, and that lowers his FIP to 3.88. I’m not sure where it becomes so obvious that Jurrjens is better. Nor is it obvious where this “#2 starter” tag comes from. Just because Jurrjens got lucky for a season and posted a 2.60 ERA he didn’t deserve? Come on. They’ve performed essentially the same for the duration of their careers thus far.
As for Hanson and Hudson, let’s get past ERA and try again. Hanson’s peripherals are better across the board.
This is a pretty mindless reply. You need to justify exactly why an SSS warning invalidates my point. Here’s why it doesn’t:
First, Medlen has tossed 102 1/3 innings as a starter, which is plenty to get an idea of what his performance level looks like. It’s still not enough that one start can’t throw his numbers off by 0.2 homers per nine (which is more a function of ballpark than talent itself anyway), but it’s plenty to give us solid insight.
Second, we’re talking about peripherals here. Luck independent. Peripherals regress to a player’s true skill level very quickly.
Third, it’s not as if Medlen’s performance in the big leagues is out of line with his excellent track record as a starter in the minors.
Justification please?
What do you mean JJ “has better stuff”? Medlen doesn’t throw quite as hard (about 1 MPH slower by average fastball velocity), but he’s got a bigger separation between his fastball and his changeup. As a result, according to FanGraphs’ pitch values, his fastball AND his change are better than Jurrjens’. Now Jurrjens has a highly effective slider while Medlen’s curve is more of a work in progress, but there’s nothing to say Medlen can’t improve his breaking ball.
And given that Medlen’s having just as much success as Jurrjens without a great breaking pitch, shouldn’t we be giving Meds the benefit of the doubt?
a few notes on medlen...
with the surplus already exceeding 8 pitchers next year to compete for the starting job and the fact that medlen has already had tommy john surgery at age 24, it might be in medlen’s best interest to be put in the bullpen.
Bubba Sparxxx: It's gettin' Uggla...IN HERE! UP IN HERE!
I think he is more concerned about Medlen’s surgery and the young age at which he needed it. Or, the young man’s arm is too fragile to be a starter.
I don’t necessarily agree, but I can see why one might be concerned.
SOCIALMEDIA:"FACEBOOK" DOWN, MUST FIND NEW WAYS TO DEEPSTALK AREA FEMALES FOR HUMAN GANT RON TO SEX AKA DONG AFTER BRAVES ATL LOSSES --CyborgHanson48
I just don’t think Tommy John surgery is that big of a deal these days, given the high recovery rates. High school kids are starting to have the surgery electively because the artificial ligament is stronger than the natural one, and there’s very little chance of recovery issues. Josh Johnson had the surgery younger than Medlen, and he’s handled a starter’s workload fine post-op.
No, he hasn't...
Medlen has never had a 175 or 200 inning year, and there are some who wonder if a pitcher his size can handle that on a yearly basis. Some can, but they seem more the exception than the norm.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Fair enough...
but Medlen and Johnson have some massive difference physically, in stuff, and in past workloads.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
I agree on their differences. I’m ok with whatever he does as long as he keeps melting faces like he did in 2010.
“Melting Faces” has replaced “taking souls” as my favorite phrase/metaphor for getting hitters out. Thank you.
Don't kiss an ass if it's in the process of shitting on you.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
YW.
I can’t take full credit on the origin, but only that my many years on the internet has been littered with like phrases to “melting faces”. Feel free to use anytime.
You’re missing my point. I don’t see the connection between the surgery and the need to pitch out of the bullpen. Build is a different issue altogether. My only point in using Johnson is that TJ surgery just doesn’t usually have a big effect on post-op performance these days.
Maybe Medlen can hold up for 200 innings and maybe he can’t, but I don’t think that changes as a result of the surgery. I’m of the opinion that they let him try to hold up until he proves he can’t.
Smoltz actually preferred Starting to Reliever after surgery
Say it helped to know when he’d pitch as opposed to having to get ready quickly if the situation called for it. It isn’t necessarily the # of IPs that factors in. I’d feel MUCH more comfortable about a (young-ish or coming off rehab) SP pitching 200 innings than the same type pitching 80-90 out of the ’pen…
Pitching surpluses are lovely in the abstract. At some point, though, the Braves are going to have to convert a surplus that they simply can’t use into pieces they can. I’d have said there was ripe opportunity to do that this winter, but if Wren wants to play wait-and-see until the trade deadline, I can get on board. There is, however, significant risk in just holding on to all these pitchers.
Jeter back as a Yankee
BOOOOOORRRRRRRRING!!!!!
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
Would anyone be on-board for...
Beachy and Kawakami for Cain? I know the Brewers aren’t shopping him, but they seem to think they can contend next year with another starter or two. And if it can save the Braves $1 or $2 million on Kawakami’s contract, while acquiring a peice they need…….seems like a great deal for both clubs.
No, but I get the feeling that they'd want more than Beachy for Cain....
….and Beachy and Kawakami gives them two options, one can move to the pen. I mean, they’d be getting two starters that could potentially be pretty effective as back-end guys for such a small price while giving up an outfielder they don’t particularly need…
by Undocorkscrew on Dec 7, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
the 2 for 1 deal...
might work with the orioles.
Bubba Sparxxx: It's gettin' Uggla...IN HERE! UP IN HERE!
mike gonzalez?
the braves need a LH reliever and possibly one that could close a bit. mike’s salary is 6 million, KKs salary is 6.67. both had unproductive years last year.
Bubba Sparxxx: It's gettin' Uggla...IN HERE! UP IN HERE!
well...
they get 2 starters for a reliever that they only got 24 innings out of last year and paid 6 million bucks. i’d say that’s a fairly good deal.
Bubba Sparxxx: It's gettin' Uggla...IN HERE! UP IN HERE!
There’s no reason for the Brewers to even consider it unless the Braves eat the majority of KK’s contract. Beachy for Cain straight up isn’t going to be enough for the Brewers, and let’s not forget that Kawakami’s value—given his salary and the Braves’ transparent obsession with getting rid of him—is actually negative. As in, you’d have to add MORE pieces to get someone to take Kawakami.
That said, don’t see Cain going anywhere unless Jurrjens is involved. Which he won’t be.
Mate...
What I proposed was the Braves eating the majority of his contract, the Brewers picking up $1 or $2 million on it while getting another starter(or pen arm) for the league minimum.
“That said, don’t see Cain going anywhere unless Jurrjens is involved. Which he won’t be.”
I’m not a Jurrjens fan, but that’s pretty crazy.
by Undocorkscrew on Dec 7, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
Misread re: how much the Braves would be picking up. And my point about Jurrjens has nothing to do with how fair a JJ-for-Cain swap would be. It’s about the Brewers’ willingness to move Cain, which is low, which puts them in position to demand a lot for him. Beachy’s not enough, and simply adding marginal prospects doesn’t make the offer that much more appetizing for the Brewers. They want to win now. Beachy’s not enough, Jurrjens is too much…I don’t see a fit is the point.
If the Brewers feel that Cain isn't worth two MLB-ready starters....
…that will cost them almost nothing, then yeah, no point in even discussing it. But I’d certainly consider it if I were in their shoes, given that they think they can contend with the Reds and Cardinals with another starter and an upgraded pen. Low-risk, high-reward for both teams in my eyes….
by Undocorkscrew on Dec 7, 2010 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
But the Brewers also still need a center fielder, and let’s be real that Carlos Gomez isn’t exactly Lorenzo Cain. They can do better than Beachy and Kawakami for Cain, because they really don’t need Kawakami and don’t have to do us a favor to get a deal done. If they really want to shop Cain for a pitcher, they can do better than an unproven guy with a fourth-starter ceiling and a Japanese question mark with a seven-figure salary (even if the Braves do eat some).
by tgthree on Dec 7, 2010 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Don't send Cash
Too much versatility.
Eddie V
by DolphinNation on Dec 7, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
who cares...
he didnt ask that. dont overthink, just answer.
YES!
Bubba Sparxxx: It's gettin' Uggla...IN HERE! UP IN HERE!
They need to just sit still and wait for 2012. I read somewhere that their farm system is freaking loaded. They need to wait until those guys mature and make a Tampa Bay Rays like run when everybody will be sleeping on them.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I agree
I don’t understand their interest in bridge players, especially ex-Braves. They’ve been linked to Andruw Jones, Diaz, Cabrera, and Francoeur this offseason… just to name a few. Seems wiser to give their young guys a chance to get some ML experience.
Kawakami - 1, Halladay - 0
their system isn't loaded
it may be the best system of the past 10 years.
1. Myers
2. Hosmer
3. Moustakas
4. Montgomery
5. Lamb
6. Colon
ALL might be perennial all stars. it’s pretty sick, actually.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Dec 7, 2010 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
Source of mine was saying how Braves offered up Brandon Beachy for Lorenzo Cain of Brewers. I’m not sure if it is straight up or not, and if someone has to send in a lower spec or what, but that is what I was hearing before Crasnic tweated yesterday saying Cain isn’t avail, so not sure what is going on at the moment. I think that would be a good move for us sending Beachy for Cain, but we shall see.
braves#1
How does one become a moderator or author for this site?
Just curious.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
well
knowning more about minor league systems would help.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Dec 7, 2010 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
lol
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
May as well just use Hicks or Diory.....
…and save the cash, imo.
by Undocorkscrew on Dec 7, 2010 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
Do Hernandez and Hicks have any options left?
I would think you would want to stash one at Gwinett for A-Gon’s inevitable DL stint.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
KK to the O's ? Rumors - Pirate talks have cooled
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/12/latest-on-kenshin-kawakami.html
The article link above states that the Braves are no talking with the O’s about KK and that the Braves would include RH Beachy in a deal that they felt was the right fit for them. Beachy is a good young starter but his projection at best is to be a legit #4 or #5 in a rotation so it is just interesting that their has been all of this rumor mill stuff around him. Personally I am glad to have read some of the above posting and found out that Wren is telling team no on JJ which is great. Minor needs to stay as well and with Beachy gone it would allow Minor to be the #5 starter which is what the Braves really want to do.
As far as KK to the O’s who could we get ? O’s must have a very deep farm system considering how bad they have been and for so long, IMAO.
Also A. Everett has been liked to the Rockies/Indians as possible destinations ? WTF ATL this guy would really improve our bench and give a ton of insurance to A.Gonzo injury etc… just don’t get that one.
As for Cain agree with most here if they think he worth more than KK and Beachy to MLB ready mid-lower end rotation starters then they are nuts and let them keep him and they can continue to suck without any pitching as they have for the past couple of seasons.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Dec 7, 2010 3:41 PM EST reply actions
well damn...
i guess fw should call up billy beane then
by forgotten_glory on Dec 7, 2010 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
Heh
I don’t understand though. If the goal is to unload KK, shouldn’t we not be worrying about the return?
Kawakami - 1, Halladay - 0
yes
A’s just seemed to show some interest yesterday…as long as we get a couple million off the books, then I will be satisfied…
by forgotten_glory on Dec 7, 2010 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
KK solution
So, apparently some Japanese teams wants him, but he can refuse an intl trade. Would it be illegal to tell him that he will sit as long as he is a Brave, in an effort to get him to allow the trade???
I know, maybe unethical. I’m just curious.
they've done worse than that...
they demoted him to AA in Pearl, Mississippi.
Bubba Sparxxx: It's gettin' Uggla...IN HERE! UP IN HERE!
I'm sure he'd accept a deal back to Japan....
…it’s just a matter of a Japanese club taking on some of his salary.
by Undocorkscrew on Dec 7, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
He already said he wouldnt...
and why would he? he’s going to get paid one way or another.
Bubba Sparxxx: It's gettin' Uggla...IN HERE! UP IN HERE!
'and why would he? he’s going to get paid one way or another.'
Exactly, so I don’t know why he’s so opposed to going back to Japan unless it’s a pride issue, which is definitely possible. This whole thing is a mess…..
I’m sure, eventually, an MLB team will be willing to eat $2-3 million on his deal.
by Undocorkscrew on Dec 7, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
He has a better chance of making more money on his next contract if he proves he can pitch in MLB.
by king of games on Dec 7, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Yea, the AJC wouldn't make sense in another country.
I spilled spot remover on my dog... now he's gone.
His expensive sports car does not drive on water.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
I got this.
I’m working on a time machine.
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
by MBL1 on Dec 7, 2010 5:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If Coke Zero can invent a drink with real Coke taste and zero calories, why can’t someone invent a time machine? I’m lookin at you scientists.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
You show me a diet soda that actually tastes like regular soda, and I WILL show you a time machine. Bank on that.
I hate the Phillies so much...
Yeah, fortunately diet soda doesn't taste that sweet.
I spilled spot remover on my dog... now he's gone.
I think I’m gonna have to watch Back To The Future again to work it all out, but I should have it all built by February.
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
by MBL1 on Dec 7, 2010 8:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Best Braves news of the day has to deal with Dennys Reyes and the Phillies
4:27pm: Joe Strauss of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch hears that Reyes will sign with the Phillies (Twitter link).
This would be great!
working out?
Bobby Cox, advising Jeff Francoeur about being thrown out of a game: "you’ll probably have to write a $500 check. Or you can do what I do, write a $10,000 one and tell them when it runs out, let me know."
I thought it was called masterbating? Now I’m confused.
Don't kiss an ass if it's in the process of shitting on you.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
Getting Coco Crisp was MY idea. I’ve had that idea ever since the post about pirates and athletics being suitors for kawakami came up. I even put it into a comment about centerfield candidates before that post came up. and he’s one of the best choices, too. and so is josh outman for the bullpen lefty scenario.
...And the home, of the, ATLANTA braaaaave(s)!!!
My avatar says it all.
"That guy mvhsbball is really an insufferable schmuck." - FuquaManuel
by Scott Coleman on Dec 7, 2010 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
haha
I was honestly just going to write
“See: mvshbball’s avatar”
But decided it would be quicker to get my point across by just finding a picture myself and posting it….considering you’re pretty hard to find here on TC
My schedule sucks this semester. I have a ton of time in-between classes and that’s when I get most of my TC on.
I’ve also rosterbated a few times in class, and my bad grades are a result. I should probably stop doing that.
"That guy mvhsbball is really an insufferable schmuck." - FuquaManuel
by Scott Coleman on Dec 7, 2010 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
I got news for ya kid...
you weren’t the first to suggest going after Coco Crisp around here. Not by a longshot.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
SMH
/facepalm
No, you weren’t.
The birth of Jason Heyward was God’s punishment for the sins of the people in New York and Philly.
Actually, he probably was...
but when you make 3 or 4 rosterbation FanPosts a week, I’m pretty sure you could come up with a way to cover a good majority of players in the league.
"That guy mvhsbball is really an insufferable schmuck." - FuquaManuel
by Scott Coleman on Dec 7, 2010 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
Not if he's claiming it from a week or two ago...
I can’t recall if it was Andy or someone else from one of the first rosterbation posts this winter, but I recall discussing with them Crisp in the context of Rajai Davis (because I had to argue how similar both were, how Crisp’s superior slg was mostly tied to his first two years in the league, Davis’ lower cost, etc). People have been suggesting we get Crisp around here since at least the season ended, and probably well before that.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
I know
just having some fun.
Hell, the Braves have been linked to Crisp since 2007.
"That guy mvhsbball is really an insufferable schmuck." - FuquaManuel
by Scott Coleman on Dec 7, 2010 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
Idiots
The last two posts from the phillies fans are beyond dumb…the first guy, tigerdouche, obviously hasn’t heard we now play in Turner Field…
http://www.philliesphans.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41372&start=840#wrapheader
…Uggla’s extra-base hits (fewer in Fulton County Stadium than in Miami)…
Well, I suppose that technically, that part’s true… I think I’ll be happy to spring DU on the Phils fans next year while they’re still thinking this way.
Bobby Cox, advising Jeff Francoeur about being thrown out of a game: "you’ll probably have to write a $500 check. Or you can do what I do, write a $10,000 one and tell them when it runs out, let me know."
Why do you bother going on a Phillies site?
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
by MBL1 on Dec 7, 2010 9:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
From MLBTR
The Dodgers signed Tony Gwynn Jr. to a one-year major league deal, according to Tom Krasovic of AOLFanHouse (on Twitter).
One less option….I really wish the Braves would have made a run at him (maybe they did, just didn’t hear anything so I’ll make an ass out of me and assume)
That sucks
TGJr was an excellent option.
Don't kiss an ass if it's in the process of shitting on you.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
Oh well
he’s a fine defender, but the fact is he’s one of the worst hitters in all of baseball. And his speed is rarely utilized with his .300OBP.
"That guy mvhsbball is really an insufferable schmuck." - FuquaManuel
by Scott Coleman on Dec 7, 2010 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
Rangers are listening on trades for Michael Young....
Braves should jump on this rumor.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
I did not know he was making that kind of money. Nevermind.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Dec 7, 2010 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously...
…at what point do we just keep Kawakami? Bring him to spring training, and in earnest let him fight for a role on the team. It’s been well-documented here and around the interwebs that his 2010 really wasn’t materially different from his 2009, except for a heaping helping of bad luck. At some point, it becomes ridiculous to just give him away for a pittance of salary relief. That’s not how good teams operate.
As for me, I’m up to giving him the benefit of the doubt and letting Beachy and Minor start the season at Gwinnett, and just releasing Kawakami if things don’t go well early…since releasing him is effectively what we’re about to do. Can that be any worse of an outcome, since no one seems to want anything to do with him on the trade market?
beginning to think the same thing myself. And if he does bounce back to 2009 form then he becomes a trade chip at the break if Beachy/Minor are tearing things up in Gwinnett. It’s not a bad thing to have too much pitching.
I think the “no such thing as too much pitching adage” is very cliche, since at some point the Braves have to cash in their pitching surplus for pieces they can actually use. If it were up to me, I’d move Jair Jurrjens now for a young outfielder, take a flier on someone like Justin Duchscherer and go into spring training with Kawakami, Duke, Minor and Beachy battling for the last two spots in the rotation.
But since I recognize that Jurrjens is going nowhere, I’m just interested in seeing the Braves not give talent away for nothing. Maybe the Yankees can afford to do that, but not a mid-market team like the Braves. Keep KK, and see what you have on your hands before you just throw him away.
true, but its not like we have an overabundance of pitching right now. We are looking at two rookies, good rookies, but still they will be in the hunt for the #5 slot. If Jair comes back then you can also use him to get something else that you might need down the road. I’m just basically in agreement that giving KK away while paying 5.5 million of his salary seems like a waste for the Braves.
Just throwing this out there...
What about Michael Young? I just saw on MLBTR that the Rangers could be looking to ship him somewhere and eat a portion of his salary for a decent return.
I honestly feel like right now, the Braves’ line-up looks good, but has two question marks/poor spots – CF and SS. Nate McLouth and Alex Gonzalez are both HUGE offensive concerns for me. Everyone has looked at potentially trading for a CF to replace/platoon McLouth, and not many people have listed too many potential replacements for Gonzalez (other than Hardy, who won’t be moved) due to the slim SS market.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
Well, he can't play CF, and can't play SS...
and we can’t afford him. So in baseball terms, that’s three strikes, he’s out.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought he won a Gold Glove for SS in 2008? He only moved to 3B to make room for Elvis Andrus who could only play SS, while Young can play SS, 3B AND 2B.
He could play SS, have Alex Gonzalez as the back-up, and then start McLouth in CF as the only weaker part in the Atlanta line-up.
And while Young would be slated to make 16M for the next three years, the Rangers would be willing to eat a portion of that contract. Also, his contract would be possible for 2012 and 2013. And if we could get the Rangers to take on Kawakami in the trade, it wouldn’t be bad, I guess.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Dec 7, 2010 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
Isn’t his range decreasing all the time, though? Can’t believe he’s aging that well at 3B and do the Braves like to throw 48M over 3 years at declining players? The Rangers will toss some cash in there but not that much. If the year starts out and Chipper can’t produce, maybe but not otherwise.
The wait for 10/7 begins. This man is focused. Are you?
And since moving, the Gold Glove at SS has gone to Jeter...
so what does that say about GGs?
He’s not a good SS, Uggla would probably be as good, Prado better there.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Fine then,
his D is probably comparable to Prado. In spite of a gold glove, he was never a good SS defensively.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought he won a Gold Glove for SS in 2008? He only moved to 3B to make room for Elvis Andrus who could only play SS, while Young can play SS, 3B AND 2B.
Which is entirely meaningless, as illustrated by the following.
1999 AL Gold Glove Winner at 1B: Rafael Palmeiro. Number of games Palmeiro played at 1B that season? 28.
"They should just give two ROYs in the NL and skip the AL this year." - KLaw
Unrelated to Braves, but...
Cliff Lee and Carl Crawford- where will they sign?
My money’s on Lee staying in Texas or maybe going to the Angels. Hopefully not the Nats, although after Werth I highly doubt that…
Crawford I’m thinking will either be Yankees or Red Sox
"That's my teammate, man... That's my quarterback"
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