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Around SBN: The Reemergence of Barry Bonds

Braves 2010 Season In Review: Yunel Escobar and Alex Gonzalez

Coming into the 2010 season, the Atlanta Braves felt like they were set at the shortstop position for the foreseeable future. Yunel Escobar had just completed his second full season in the Major Leagues, and the 27 year old had finished 20th in MVP voting in 2009, a season where he hit .299 with a .812 OPS, 26 doubles, 14 home runs, and 74 RBI, while playing outstanding defense. But, Escobar stumbled out of the gate in 2010, hitting just .212 with a pathetic .556 OPS through the end of May. He also missed two weeks in early May with a strained groin and nagging injuries, which seemed to have plagued him in other seasons as well, piled on top of each other.

Despite statistically rebounding with a decent June, hitting .289 with a .741 OPS in 109 plate appearances, Escobar had fallen out of favor with the Braves, mostly due to his excitable personality. In previous years, the Cuban native had other players to mentor him, Javier Vasquez in 2009 and childhood friend Brayan Pena in the seasons before that, but in 2010 Escobar didn't have that support system, and it showed. His highs were too high, punctuated by excessive celebration, and his lows were too low, and too often, as he seemed to spend most of his time in the dugout pouting. Around the clubhouse, Escobar's name became synonymous with a lack of effort and after repeated attempts at getting him to play the right way, Bobby Cox finally decided he'd had enough. Over the All-Star break the legendary manager informed Braves general manager Frank Wren that he simply couldn't field a team that had Escobar on it.

On July 14th, Escobar and pitcher Jo-Jo Reyes, who had also failed to live up to the team's expectations for him, were traded to the Toronto Blue Jays for shortstop Alex Gonzalez and prospects Tyler Pastornicky and Tim Collins, who was traded to the Kansas City Royals later in the month. In 301 plate apperances for Atlanta this season, Escobar hit .238 with a .618 OPS, 12 doubles, no home runs, and 19 RBI. The 33 year old Gonzalez, playing in his 12th season in the Majors, was having one of the best campains of his career, hitting .259 with a .793 OPS, 25 doubles, 17 home runs, and 50 RBI in 348 plate apperances for the Jays. Whatever slipstream effect Rogers Centre was having on Jose Bautista's offense it was also having on Gonzalez's. Unfortunately, Gonzalez couldn't match his first half production as a member of the Braves, hitting .240 with a .676 OPS, 17 doubles, 6 home runs, and 38 RBI in 292 plate appearances for Atlanta.

More after the jump:

Star-divide

While Gonzalez's production might not have been what the Braves hoped for, it was still an improvement over what they'd gotten in the first half from Escobar, though the two weren't that far apart. Gonzalez's average was just 2 points higher, and his on base percentage, a woeful .291, was 49 points lower than Escobar's. The big difference was that Gonzalez was able to drive the ball with authority, something Escobar just couldn't do as a Brave in 2010, slugging .386 compared to Escobar's weak .284 as a Brave. On the bright side, the Braves actually gained on the defensive side of things, as Gonzalez proved himself to be a more capable defender. Gonzalez's 2010 UZR was 5.1, which is in keeping with his 5.5 career average, while Escobar's was at 4.3, a big jump from his career 3.1. Both players are well above average defenders, and Escobar clearly has a superior arm, but Gonzalez is just better at the position.

Some will look at Escobar's numbers with the Blue Jays, a .275 average, .696 OPS, 7 doubles, 4 home runs, and 16 RBI, as proof that the Braves should have held on to their young shorstop. But, that line of thinking assumes that baseball is played in a vacuum, and that a player will perform equally no matter where he plays. Simply speaking, Escobar wasn't able to play the game the Braves' way, and that didn't sit well with management and teammates alike. The chances of Escobar making a similar second half turnaround, modest as it was, with Atlanta, was very low, and rather than keep a player who didn't fit in, the Braves made the difficult choice to replace him with a player in Gonzalez who, while probably much less talented, was more the kind of professional that the organization covets.

There was also a financial benefit to the trade. The Braves had to pay half of Gonzalez's 2.75 million dollar salary in 2010, instead of paying Escobar the minimun, but in 2011 they'll save by avoiding arbritraton with Escobar. Despite a down year, he will likley be awarded between 4 and 5 million through arbitration, while the Braves will only have to pay 2.5 million to Gonzalez after picking up his option. Again, some would argue that if Escobar could regain his 2009 form than even 5 million would be a bargain, but, again, that rebound just didn't seem likely to happen in Atlanta. And, by acquiring 21 year old shortsop Tyler Pastornicky in the same trade, the Braves may have an in house option for Gonzalez's replacement in 2012.

Alex Gonzalez will be the Braves' shortstop in 2011, and it doesn't take an expert to guess how he'll perform. Over 12 seasons, an average year for him is a .248 average, 695 OPS, 35 doubles, 16 home runs, and 71 RBI, along with well above average defense. For 2.5 million dollars the Braves are getting fantastic value for what they're paying and while he likely won't be a standout offensively, he will be a calm, consistent force in the Braves lineup, allowing the team to focus its efforts to improve on other areas.

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You could argue that...

Omar Infante’s star was born because of the injuries and ineffectiveness of Yunel Escobar in 2010.

by TBuzz on Nov 30, 2010 8:11 AM EST reply actions  

Barring any trades, how does the 2011 team look at SS? Lipka will certainly not be ready, is it assumed we will be looking for a short term patch until he is?

I thought hurricane season was over........

by bravesguy311 on Nov 30, 2010 8:41 AM EST reply actions  

sorry, 2012 team

I thought hurricane season was over........

by bravesguy311 on Nov 30, 2010 8:42 AM EST up reply actions  

As CB notes above, Pastornicky might be the guy. I like Andrelton Simmons as our SS of the future, but he would have to have a magical season in 2011 to be considered ready by 2012. Lipka is in the same boat as Simmons, but I think he’ll swap positions eventually (as will Salcedo). Might as well say that my fantasy is Simmons at short, Salcedo at third, and Lipka in center.

"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"

by bwellnjonesco on Nov 30, 2010 9:36 AM EST up reply actions  

This will be covered in the top prospects post tomorrow, but, at least to me, Salcedo is the most likely to stick at short, Simmons the least likely to be able to hit at the higher levels. People want to say Salcedo is too big for SS, but he’s the same size the two best SS in the National League, Troy Tulowiski and Hanley Ramirez, were at his age.

As far as 2012, it’s impossible to say. That’s 18 months away. A million things could happen.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2010 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, he is the same size they were...

…but we have no idea how he’ll grow. He could grow the same as they did, but he might grow more. Personally, I’d prefer he grew, added power, and ended up at 3B.

by cavebird on Nov 30, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Even if he grew and added power he could stay at SS. Ramirez is 6’3", 230. Tulo is 6’3", 215. Salcedo is a very thin 195. He could easily add 20 pounds of muscle and still stay at SS. Trust me, he’s an elite talent, he’s the kind of guy you want at SS.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd love that, but...

…does he have the defensive skills? I haven’t heard much on his defense.

by cavebird on Nov 30, 2010 9:59 PM EST up reply actions  

If you look at his stats he looks terrible. He made 27 errors in 52 games. But he was also playing way over his experience level and young guys with his kind of athleticism make a bunch of errors. Just about every shortstop worth his salt who played professionally at 18 made a ton of errors. The super athletic guys get to balls that the average player can’t get to and they try to make spectacular plays and sometimes mess them up. They’re also 18 year olds with crappy attention spans and occasionally have lapses in their concentration. Salcedo is going to be a well above average defensive shortstop. He has the body, the arm, and the instincts.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2010 10:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice write up.

I couldn’t agree more with your assessment.

"You can't print what I said, but they have to catch us." - Chipper Jones

by Jman781 on Nov 30, 2010 8:52 AM EST reply actions  

I think most underappreciate Gonzalez

The Dodgers just gave a middle infielder (Uribe) with a .248/.310/.440/.749 line last year and a .256/.300/.431/.731 career line three years and 21M and while he is above average at short he isn’t as good as Gonzalez there.

We have Gonzalez who looks like a good bet for .250/.300/.400/.700 at least next year with excellent defense at short for a below market one year contract. In this year’s market for shortstops I think we should just count our blessings and be thankful we have a competent veteran at short.

Jason Heyward wins at baseball.

by bbxxj on Nov 30, 2010 9:31 AM EST reply actions  

The thing that concerns me about Gonzalez is his ability to stay healthy. The stats are consistent, but his health is far from it.

"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"

by bwellnjonesco on Nov 30, 2010 9:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Are 626 PA’s between Toronto and the Braves not enough for you?

by TBuzz on Nov 30, 2010 10:25 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Career highs. He’s been in the league since 1998 and had 600+ PAs ONCE. Trust me, I have a Red’s fan sitting right next to me.

"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"

by bwellnjonesco on Nov 30, 2010 10:42 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m not saying that just because it’s possible makes it a great idea. I agree we need bring in a FA veteran who can fight out the backup role with Brandon Hicks and Diory Hernandez.

by TBuzz on Nov 30, 2010 10:58 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I’d love Adam Everett if he’d come relatively cheaply. If our backup can’t hit he should be amazing on defense.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2010 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Adam Everett should come cheaply.

However, I would prefer Hairston because he can also play center.

by cavebird on Nov 30, 2010 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I like Hairston a lot, his whole family is incredibly nice, so I’d be cool with that. I’m not sure he’s that great of a SS anymore, but he’d be a nice Omar Infante impersonator.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

What would y’all think about David Eckstein?

by TBuzz on Nov 30, 2010 2:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

gritty, gutsy

I thought hurricane season was over........

by bravesguy311 on Nov 30, 2010 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think his defense is good enough to make up for his lack of a bat. If he’s all they can get they’re better off with Diory Hernandez, or at least Brandon Hicks who’s an outstanding defender.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

we want two different bench players in center and short stop

because the guy that backs up short stop, should be a defensive replacement for uggla in late game situations—especially with the high number of grounders that will be induced by venters and kimbrel.

I know everyone is saying they want a defensive center fielder to move mclouth to left in late game situations, and i actually think that is an awesome idea…we will have a hell of an outfield if we do that.

but i think it is just as much of a priority to have a legit defensive replacement for uggla to lock down our infield (maybe also a third basemen, but thats a different question entirely)..

this is why i dont think we want our back up short stop to also be our back up center fielder, because we want two different guys that shine at both positions

by willlinn on Nov 30, 2010 10:10 PM EST up reply actions  

ever since it was mentioned I have named myself the head of the Adam Everett for utility IF bandwagon….could not find a better replacement in my mind…

although i don’t dispute that Hairston is valuable int hat he can play SS and CF and other positions, but Everett has a slightly better defense at SS and thats what concerns me most.

"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Nov 30, 2010 3:12 PM EST up reply actions  

why is the defense at SS the main priority?

if we make a defensive sub in the infield it is not going to be for alex gonzalez it is going to be for Uggla. so we need a guy that can back up short stop, that is also a defensive sub at second.

by willlinn on Nov 30, 2010 10:12 PM EST up reply actions  

because we don’t have a single player on the team who can adequately defend at SS.

i agree we wont use a defensive sub for Sea Bass, there is no doubt. but any SS worth his salt can field 2B as well. this is true for Hairston and Everett

and finally i am looking at it in the insurance policy in case an IF gets hurt, specifically if Sea Bass gets hurt…we can absorb an injury pretty much anywhere on the diamond (because of Prado’s ability to play any position), except RF and you could argue C (although if we had to field Ross at C for a month it wouldn’t be the end of the world)

"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Nov 30, 2010 10:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Diory Hernandez and Brandon Hicks can both adequately defend at SS. Hicks is a fantastic fielder. Neither is an every day Major Leaguer with the bat, but most teams don’t have a great contingency plan at every position.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2010 10:53 PM EST up reply actions  

that doesnt change the fact that Everett has a decent bat is a very good defender…plus he has the ever elusive veteran presence and i think there has been mentioning of calm eyes a time or two.

"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Dec 1, 2010 12:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Again, I’m all for Everett. But we definitely have a couple options who are adequate defenders at short.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Dec 1, 2010 1:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Everett probably has a decent bat.

I am sure he gets his bats from the same place other major leaguers do. He doesn’t use his bats well, however, as shown by his career .642 OPS and the fact he has not posted an OPS over .613 since 2006.

by cavebird on Dec 1, 2010 9:34 AM EST up reply actions  

who the hell is suggesting we sign Adam Everett that can can’t hti worth shit….oops

i just really like his glove…and his bat is atrocious apparently so maybe im crazy…

"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Dec 1, 2010 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Could we go Everett and Matt Young?...

Young can be a potentially solid bat, play CF and 2B. Everett can play SS well, and be a utility defender.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 1, 2010 8:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Would that not fit the idea of...

Andrelton Simmins? Unlikely to hit, but if he can get above a .300 obp and near .700 ops, his defense at SS is good enough to make that worthwhile? And if not, his D still might be enough for a bench spot.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 1, 2010 8:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Given Simmons' current spot on the development curve...

…if we put him in the majors in 2011, I think he’d be lucky to post a .250 OPS. Why waste his development time?

by cavebird on Dec 1, 2010 9:35 AM EST up reply actions  

I was speaking more on down the line...

and the overall idea Simmons will never hit well enough to be a big leaguer, than for 2011 specifically. And Brandon Hicks struggles for a .250 ops, so you may be overestimating AS.

That said, he may be a modern day test of Raffy Belliard. Can that weak of a bat make an MLB roster anymore, or will an undersized, no bat, defensive stalwart with a strong arm, IF such as Raffy be forced to the mound to make it?

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 1, 2010 9:51 AM EST up reply actions  

you do realize that Brandon Hicks is a run scoring machine…right…7 runs scored…6 PAs…he is like the Chris Carter of SS…all he does is score

"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Dec 1, 2010 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Why does that concern you? It’s not like we lose much if he’s sitting out hurt.

"They should just give two ROYs in the NL and skip the AL this year." - KLaw

by Lennox on Nov 30, 2010 11:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, just an average Major League shortstop…

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2010 11:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess if you only look at his career years and ignore all the seasons where he’s been below average …

"They should just give two ROYs in the NL and skip the AL this year." - KLaw

by Lennox on Nov 30, 2010 11:32 PM EST up reply actions  

You’re not a fan of something/someone, what a shock.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2010 11:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Speaking of shocking ...

Seriously, why do you even respond to anything I say if you’re just going to come back to any response with this same tired and predictable, “You’re just being negative,” line of bullshit every time?

If you’re going to respond to me why don’t you actually provide statistical support for your argument or against mine and (shockingly enough) discuss baseball?

If you think that I’m just oh so incredibly negative about everything, why don’t you just, you know, not respond in the first place? Seems like it would save time for everybody.

Sorry for daring to suggest that replacing the production of a guy that has a career OBP below .300 in the event that he does go down with an injury isn’t exactly a major concern. Excuse me for having faith in the guys in our system to think that they can fill in adequately for Alex Gonzalez if the need should arise or that our GM will be capable of finding a solid enough backup on the FA market.

I also apologize for saying that a guy that has produced a WAR over 1.6 three times in 10 full ML seasons is probably a below average starting ML SS overall.

"They should just give two ROYs in the NL and skip the AL this year." - KLaw

by Lennox on Dec 1, 2010 1:06 AM EST up reply actions  

I guess I could counter and ask why you never come on the site to say anything positive. I mean, talk about wasting time. I don’t even have to read your comments, I see ‘Lennox’ at the bottom and I already know what your stance is going to be. You’re only into discussing baseball if you can poo-poo on something. Why would I have a discussion with you?

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Dec 1, 2010 1:15 AM EST up reply actions  

I may tend to talk more about the moves that I disagree with, but I also say positive things. I was completely positive about the Uggla trade. I say positive things in game threads. I say positive things about players that are actually good. I defend guys like Brooks Conrad when other posters say ridiculous things like that he’s not ML ready because of a couple of bad defensive plays.

But that’s all beside the point. If you don’t want to discuss anything with me for whatever reason, that’s perfectly fine by me.

I don’t feel the need to make a snide comment every time you start going on about autograph seeking or name dropping players that you talked to at the ballpark. What would even be the point?

Why do you feel the need to respond to something I say to someone else, and then “poo-poo” my “negativity” instead of just not commenting at all?

"They should just give two ROYs in the NL and skip the AL this year." - KLaw

by Lennox on Dec 1, 2010 2:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Cause I just don’t like you man.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Dec 1, 2010 3:11 AM EST up reply actions  

And I’d like to see you bludgeoned incessantly with a soup spoon, it doesn’t mean that we can’t be civil about it …

"They should just give two ROYs in the NL and skip the AL this year." - KLaw

by Lennox on Dec 1, 2010 3:52 AM EST up reply actions  

See, I didn’t wish any violence on you, I just said I don’t like you. i want you to think about the difference there.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Dec 1, 2010 5:24 AM EST up reply actions  

:eyeroll:

Violence involving a soup spoon, obviously I was being very serious …

"They should just give two ROYs in the NL and skip the AL this year." - KLaw

by Lennox on Dec 1, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

:barrelroll:

Obviously, you don’t know about the spoon massacre in South Africa during the 40s.

Millions of people had little marks on their skin..

"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"

by bwellnjonesco on Dec 1, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m pretty sure that incident involved larger serving spoons though, not really comparable to the innocuous little soup spoon.

"They should just give two ROYs in the NL and skip the AL this year." - KLaw

by Lennox on Dec 1, 2010 3:12 PM EST up reply actions  

i dont know what was funnier…the “barrelroll” or the fact that I googled spoon massacre to see if anything would show up…

P.S. there is results and the video is interesting to say the least

"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Dec 1, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m glad you typed out ‘eyeroll’, it gave me one more thing to dislike other than your overuse of the ellipses.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Dec 1, 2010 5:43 PM EST up reply actions  

wtf…i love…ellipses…it shows that i cannot…. coherently…. put a sentence….together…without breaks

"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Dec 1, 2010 7:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I love them most...

Use them just about all the time…and why not??

They’re sweet.

…C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Dec 1, 2010 7:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I use them quite a bit…

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Dec 2, 2010 1:55 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m glad we had this little talk then …

"They should just give two ROYs in the NL and skip the AL this year." - KLaw

by Lennox on Dec 4, 2010 1:49 AM EST up reply actions  

To answer your original question...

…yes, Gonzo may have an OBP under .300, but we don’t have anyone in our system who can play short who would post a .250 OBP in regular major league playing time right now. Yeah, Gonzo may not be good, but the current alternatives are actually much worse.

by cavebird on Dec 1, 2010 9:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Okay, let me just ask it like this.

You have to pick one of our regulars to sit for a week in June, you can’t pick Nate McLouth, are you going to pick anyone over Gonzalez?

I’m not saying that he’s not better than the options we would have to fill in for him or that I would want to replace him in the lineup with any of our internal options, he a decent upgrade over our other SS options at the moment, I’m just saying that, overall, it’s not like we really lose [i]that[/it] much if he’s out of the lineup.

"They should just give two ROYs in the NL and skip the AL this year." - KLaw

by Lennox on Dec 1, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

but we do lose a lot…even if his 300 OBP is atrocious a 250 OBP is more atrocious by a good deal…we could conceivable fill Freeman’s spot and not lose 50pts of OBP, or McCann’s spot even, or McLouth you could even lose Uggla or Prado, because Hinkse or Mather wouldn’t be 50 pts worse in OBP (although it may be close).

it is also important to note we may lose some SLG by losing Sea Bass and installing Hicks or Hernandez….but we would also lose SLG for all the replacements…

losing Sea Bass would be as significant as losing any otehr player, because of the lack of a suitable replacement at the moment.

"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Dec 1, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t really see much reason to think that Diory couldn’t post an OBP around .300 if he was playing regularly. His minor league numbers aren’t that bad in that regard.

Still, I see your point, particularly with regard to Hicks (and the rather disturbing trend his offense has shown in the high minors)..

"They should just give two ROYs in the NL and skip the AL this year." - KLaw

by Lennox on Dec 4, 2010 2:26 AM EST up reply actions  

I honestly liked Escobar’s fiery attitude. He will be missed.

Felt like the Braves could have gotten more for him, but hey, we made up for it with a steal of a deal for Uggla. I guess that’s just good karma coming back to the Braves. haha

by Sparhawk on Nov 30, 2010 10:30 AM EST reply actions  

lol yea

from a talent perspective, i think we were fleeced in the escobar deal…but yea the uggla deal kinda makes up for it…

by forgotten_glory on Nov 30, 2010 10:56 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m not a fan of the shortstop version of Jeff Francoeur. I wish the Braves had traded Escobar for a higher impact prospect that would have been ready this year especially an outfielder. Fortunately with Uggla aboard, they should have more than enough offense to survive Gonzalez’s pathetic OBP.

by redwards95 on Nov 30, 2010 10:56 AM EST reply actions  

But he's not...

a SS Jeffrey. He’s a better fielder for his position, at a much more valuable position, and when healthy, has a better WAR in both b-r and fangraphs.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 30, 2010 12:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Also...

for his position, Sea Bass is an average to below average bat. But for his position, Jeffrey is a below average to way below average bat. So worse defense, at a less valuable position defensively, with slightly better offense at a much more valuable position offensively.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 30, 2010 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Why do people call him Sea Bass? I guess he has a fish face? Also, I never thought of Escobar as a big guy, but geez, his neck is wider than his head!

by HeyMikey on Nov 30, 2010 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Its a nickname he got in Toronto as I recall

I thought hurricane season was over........

by bravesguy311 on Nov 30, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought he got it with the marlins….

"Braves fans in the hizzy" -Boog
"Is that like the crib?" - Joe

by GwinnettBraves on Nov 30, 2010 2:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I think it was with the Red Sox, but I really don’t know why he got it.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I've always read that he got it in Florida

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." ~ David Foster Wallace

My Panthers Blog | My Twitter Page

by BW Smith on Nov 30, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Via a Toronto newspaper (but written by an AJC reporter):
Back at the end of the 1990s, when Gonzalez was a precocious talent rising with the Marlins, teammate Kevin Millar bestowed upon him the nickname Sea Bass. It had nothing to do with Gonzalez’s diet and everything to do with the full-lipped, pouting expression that often overtook his face.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseball/article/837679—gonzalez-seeks-peace-during-son-s-battle-to-live

"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"

"You look like you should be married to one of the San Diego Padres."

by Doghnut on Nov 30, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, Kevin Millar, you so crazy…

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2010 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I bet he and Yunel get along great...

frosted tips unite!

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 1, 2010 8:10 AM EST up reply actions  

thats hilarious! Love this board, ask and ye shall receive, good info.

by HeyMikey on Dec 1, 2010 8:36 AM EST up reply actions  

It’s hard to find anyone who IS a Francoeur at shortstop. I mean, someone who contributes defensively, but is so bad with the bat that they’re still a negative impact player at a premium position? I mean, the only people slightly comparable to that are Tony Pena Jr and Cesar Izturis.

by Bronn on Nov 30, 2010 9:37 PM EST up reply actions  

A French SS would have to be...

lauded defensively, but not very good at it, like say Jeter. But then Jeter is a positive with the bat, not below average. He also needs to be considered as having some power thanks to a large, athletic body, but never showing it. Oh, and gotta be capable of playing every day, that’s a Jeffrey key.

Maybe Jeff Keppinger, Yuniesky Bethancourt, Geoff Blum. I’m not up on metrics enough to know more about SSs.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 1, 2010 8:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Not Braves related, but since we're talking about shortstops...

Does anyone think Troy Tulowitzki’s huge contract extension will ultimately hurt the Rockies? Their payroll is about on par with the Braves.

The birth of Jason Heyward was God’s punishment for the sins of the people in New York and Philly.

by TonyAlmeyda on Nov 30, 2010 12:18 PM EST reply actions  

I think when you have a top 5 player in the league locking him up is a great plan. I didn’t really realize just how good Tulowizki is until I started reading the news about his extension.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2010 12:23 PM EST up reply actions  

He’s also probably the coolest professional player I’ve ever met. Great dude.

"That guy mvhsbball is really an insufferable schmuck." - FuquaManuel

by Scott Coleman on Nov 30, 2010 12:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

The dude thrives on the ridiculous

Which I fucking love.

Hannah Montana playing when he goes to the plate, and just about the raddest mullet that these eyes have ever witnessed…he obviously pisses excellence.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Nov 30, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

He lives his life in 3D.

"That guy mvhsbball is really an insufferable schmuck." - FuquaManuel

by Scott Coleman on Nov 30, 2010 12:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

anyone who is awesome enough to rock Hannah Montana to the plate is a great guy in my book…I my a particularly big Hannah Montana fan, but i think ridiculousness is good and personally would pick between ’Nsync’s bye bye bye and Star Wars imperial march as my music for walking to the plate.

"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Nov 30, 2010 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

anyone who is awesome enough to rock Hannah Montana to the plate is a great guy in my book…

They are a sexual offender in my book..

"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"

by bwellnjonesco on Nov 30, 2010 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

She’s 18 now.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Is she really??

Pics4proof.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Nov 30, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

http://entertainment.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/11/23/disney-star-miley-cyrus-turns-18/

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

TC Meet Up at her house?

"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"

by bwellnjonesco on Nov 30, 2010 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I’ll bring the alchol

"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Nov 30, 2010 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

ill

get the party van started

by Erihury on Nov 30, 2010 5:08 PM EST up reply actions  

there really is something wrong with you guys but i love yall anyway.

"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones

by MBL1 on Nov 30, 2010 9:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

There is.

FWIW, for the guys who love her; my wife works at Children’s Hospital (New Orleans) and one of the surgeons she works with runs a charity for kids with cancer called Caps for Kids, where celebrities sign caps for kids who have lost their hair from radiation treatment and sometimes the kids get to meet the celebrities in the hospital (wherever they are being treated). Most celebrities who have been asked (depends on who the kids want, obviously) have been very gracious, depending on schedules of course. Miley, on the other hand, has completely refused to participate at all.

For this reason, she’s a zero in my book. The pervs (or kids, heck if they are young enough, it is understandable) on here can g-b her for all I care.

by cavebird on Nov 30, 2010 10:15 PM EST up reply actions  

well then its definitely on now, since we got the go-ahead from cavebird (i think he is legal counsel for TC)

"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Nov 30, 2010 10:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I mean, I have no doubt she’s a spoiled brat. Nobody can be famous as a teenager and turn out normal.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2010 10:54 PM EST up reply actions  

To be fair, she probably has never even heard from Caps for Kids. The managers read those requests and make those decisions. Why would a manager refuse a request of such nature? She is probably already doing work for a number of different charities for cancer and/or some other type. Give the girl a break (and some points). I’m sure she is helping somehow, but just can’t help everyone..

"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"

by bwellnjonesco on Dec 1, 2010 12:13 AM EST up reply actions  

To be fair, she probably has never even heard from Caps for Kids. The managers read those requests and make those decisions. Why would a manager refuse a request of such nature? She is probably already doing work for a number of different charities for cancer and/or some other type. Give the girl a break (and some points). I’m sure she is helping somehow, but just can’t help everyone..

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Dec 1, 2010 1:17 AM EST up reply actions  

That took effort.

"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"

"You look like you should be married to one of the San Diego Padres."

by Doghnut on Dec 1, 2010 7:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Great,, apparently I defend Miley when I get drunk and watch the Thrashers (my niece is a big fan OK, I swear, haha)

To be fair, she probably has never even heard from Caps for Kids. The managers read those requests and make those decisions. Why would a manager refuse a request of such nature? She is probably already doing work for a number of different charities for cancer and/or some other type. Give the girl a break (and some points). I’m sure she is helping somehow, but just can’t help everyone..

"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"

by bwellnjonesco on Dec 1, 2010 8:18 AM EST up reply actions  

I was at that game last nite...

7 rows back.

Stupid Thrashers.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Dec 1, 2010 9:49 AM EST up reply actions  

I just re-read my post and just to clear any confusion, I meant that my niece is big fan of Mileys..I love the Thrashers, this season is going amazing! I take it your an Avalanche fan?

"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"

by bwellnjonesco on Dec 1, 2010 11:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Yep...

And I’m in Denver, so what else was I going to do??

That’s the closest I’ve ever been to the rink at a game…body checks that close-up are fucking raucous.

Best part of the game (other than the 2 Avs goals) was whenever the “dun dun dundundun dundun dun dun…let’s go!” cheer was played, the whole stadium said “Tu-lo” in place of “let’s go,” just like at the Rockies games.

It appears as if Denver as a whole is ecstatic about the resigning, and they should be. He is royalty here, probably just below the level of fan loyalty that John Elway or Joe Sakic experience. Keeping him here may turn painful, a la Helton, but it’s going to keep fans attendance strong for the foreseeable future.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Dec 1, 2010 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Actually...

…IIRC, from what I was told, it did get through her managers and she nixed it. Not sure why, I want to say that a dislike of being in hospitals was given as a reason, which is pretty weak in my book.

by cavebird on Dec 1, 2010 9:40 AM EST up reply actions  

He did a fan poll right?...

didn’t care what music he walks up to, and let a fan vote decide it, and that’s what his fans voted for. Isn’t that the story?

And personally, it can change so many times, but my favorites so far have been Justin Smoak, “Thank God I’m a Country Boy”, and Gordon Beckham, “Your Love”. I’m partial to Becks.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 1, 2010 8:25 AM EST up reply actions  

I like Your Love. I think Kelly Johnson came up to that too. It’s a great song, because it sounds like a love song but it’s really about cheating on a girl.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Dec 1, 2010 10:35 AM EST up reply actions  

And for purposes of this discussion...

it has the added bonus of solid intro guitar riff (since you just get the first 15-20 seconds of a song in a walk up), and there’s the band name, (The Outfield).

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 1, 2010 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

I should add...

that I’m an Athens native, University of Georgia grad, and his final game at Foley Field is one of the best sports moments I’ll ever witness. That adds immensely to my partiality for the kid. And if the White Sox have really made him available, I hope we are inquiring what it’d cost.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 1, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

The official answer

"They should just give two ROYs in the NL and skip the AL this year." - KLaw

by Lennox on Dec 1, 2010 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I sill think it was a bad idea to do it this early since they didn’t save any money by doing so. Typically, granting a guy the security of a long contract like that means you save on the total dollars, but that’s not the case here. They could have made this deal in ’13 or ’14 if they still wanted to, but now if he suffers an injury that impacts his performance in the next few years, this extension is going to look damn silly by the time it kicks in. His talent is not the issue, but the timing and long-term volatility make this a pretty risky move for the Rox.

ATTENTION CITIZENS: DAN UGGLA IS NOT A THIRD BASEMAN. That is all.

by J-Freak on Nov 30, 2010 12:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

And the flip side is that if he performs well or gets better and all of the sudden becomes a 25-30 million dollar type player on the free agent market then they’re getting a great deal. There’s risk in any deal, but sometimes things work out well too.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2010 12:37 PM EST up reply actions  

That's assuming the economy of baseball...

will support a $25-30m dollar salary for elite players going forward. Maybe that’s so, but basketball is reporting they need to cut back drastically on salaries. Baseball has done the same in recent years, and cried about losses for franchises (although when books get opened that seems to be bs). The NFL is having more blackouts and financial issues than in years past. Personally, I just don’t think a continued increase in salaries to the $30m+ range can be supported economically.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 1, 2010 8:30 AM EST up reply actions  

It could be supported right now.

Baseball had a very good year in 2010. The teams are flush with cash—-look at the free agent salaries so far this offseason. A lot of local broadcasting contracts have expired recently and the renewal rates have been off the charts (this is a major reason why the Rangers have serious cash to spend this offseason, for example).

by cavebird on Dec 1, 2010 9:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I think baseball is in a much better place financially than football and basketball. Basketball has priced itself out of its fanbase and football has priced itself out of everyone’s budget.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Dec 1, 2010 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

footbball makes nearly all of its money from its TV contracts…whereas baseball makes money from tickets… it is very different…it may be really expensive to get tickets for aNFL game, but the owners dont care bc people pay and if they dont its not that big of a deal they still rake in cash from tv rights.

"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Dec 1, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I just kind of hate football. They’re all on steroids and nobody cares.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Dec 1, 2010 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

For big-time players...

The money will always be there.

Baseball essentially has a dual-salary system, one for premier players and another for youngins and non-premier guys.

We see this happen every year: A team needs to land or keep a big fish, bumps the guy’s salary by a million or two (in some cases more than they deserve, in some cases it’s well-deserved…the process is the same, regardless), and non-tenders a reliever or a role player that would have made $2MM in arbitration, bringing up a league minimum salary to replace the reliever.

Perhaps a slight downgrade at the one position, but the win or two they give up is more than made up for by either the star player’s performance or by the revenue he generates. It’s good business, unless the star player tanks out.

This is why the league-high salary (and thus the upper-tier salaries in general) can double over 10 years while the league average player salary increases by only 60 percent or so, of which those large salaries account for a significant amount of the increase.

With a farm system full of bodies (some excellent, some average, some longshots) to bring into the major leagues at any given time, this cycle can continue indefinitely. Teams don’t even have to possess a particularly talented farm system to accomplish this.

Rest assured, if baseball’s stock should plummet, it will be the arbitration-eligibles that will feel the pinch first, and the solid but unspectacular veterans next.

If salaries as a whole begin to fall, it’s the stars that will feel it last at the negotiating table, because both they and their agents know that it is those guys bringing Joe Schmo Baseball Know-Nothing to the stadium, not the Matt Diazes or Peter Moylans of the world.

More educated fans come to see those players, and some even become fan favorites among the masses, but I can guarantee you that if Diaz or Moylan* aren’t brought back, it won’t be evidenced in ticket sales, and probably not in memorabilia.

-C

  • - I use Diaz and Moylan only as examples of arbitration-eligible players that are likely worth what they’d make in arbitration, performance-wise, that may not be tendered contracts because cheaper options are available. I’m not speculating that both will be non-tendered, or anything of that nature.

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Dec 1, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Disagree...

By 2014, I’m willing to bet there’s more than the current handful (six last season, actually) of players making $20+ MM per year, and you have to figure that I he’s healthy, I think $25MM is a reasonable expectation for him at that point.

By the time his contract is through, a decade later, $20MM will be worth $10MM in 2010 dollars, due to inflation alone. Contracts for top-tier players will be $30-40MM (ARod already makes $33MM this upcoming season). Even with age-based regression, $20MM at that point won’t break the bank.

It’s hard to estimate what salaries will look like 10 years from now, but 10 years ago the highest was $15MM and 20 years ago it was $3MM. So the highest paid player in 1990 (R. Henderson) makes less than league average today, and the highest-paid player makes more than 10 times that salary.

But, if he gets hurt as often as in the past, that could spell trouble.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Nov 30, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

EFF

that whole first run-on sentence that I tried to divide into two but didn’t because of improper formatting I’m so fucking dumb and I’ll try to never do it again promise.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Nov 30, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

i also think your estimation of 100% inflation over a 10 year period is a bit extreme.

"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Nov 30, 2010 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Is it? Look at the insane rate of inflation in baseball over the last 10 years, and it’s even worse over the last 20. It wasn’t until 90 or 91 that somebody made a million dollars a year and by the end of the decade guys were making over 10 million a year. Crappy players are earning 4 million dollars in arbitration. The money system is completely screwed up. Expecting ridiculous inflation for the sport is an intelligent guess based on its history.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions  

i guess in that respect its realistic…but actual real life inflation won’t be 100%…

I also strongly doubt baseball inflation will be 100%, especially considering the boom in salaries were directly related to more financial rewards reeped by the teams…it seems unlikely that teams will be able to continue to reap such rewards….

but i guess its possible you have at least forced me to reconsider my position CB…damn you….but you misspelled a word up there so screw you (kettle and pot i know)

"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Nov 30, 2010 5:10 PM EST up reply actions  

My spellcheck is afraid of me.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2010 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

i have used my spell check so much in a paper, it figuratively got tired and stopped working

"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Nov 30, 2010 10:13 PM EST up reply actions  

That assumes it can continue with similar growth...

and not have the bubble burst. Just because salaries were criminally kept low in the past doesn’t mean they haven’t exploded to potentially unsustainable levels now.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 1, 2010 8:32 AM EST up reply actions  

cbwik...

…in all fairness, when the players were just starting to make a million dollars a year, the owners were making a ridiculous amount of money; the initial jump in salaries was just the adjustment of putting the money where it really belonged—-with the guys who actually got people into the stadiums.

by cavebird on Dec 1, 2010 9:44 AM EST up reply actions  

The owners still make ridiculous amounts of money. I don’t care what nonsense they give about losses. They make crazy silly ridiculous amounts of money, even with giving the players way too much.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Dec 1, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Not to gloat (well, ok, maybe a little)

But here I am saying that despite Tulo’s obvious talent, this was an unnecessary and risky move for the Rockies, and you guys are calling me out. The experts seem to agree though.

Just sayin’. No hard feelings.

ATTENTION CITIZENS: DAN UGGLA IS NOT A THIRD BASEMAN. That is all.

by J-Freak on Dec 1, 2010 1:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Cause “experts” are always right…

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Dec 1, 2010 2:49 AM EST up reply actions  

No, they’re not. But they’re not always wrong either. And a general consensus is usually a sign that they’re on the right track, at the very least. We’re not talking about the Joe Morgans of the world here either; K-Law is usually very knowledgeable on everything except admitting that Freeman is a top-flight prospect, Cameron is highly respected (and a fellow blogger, one of your comrades-in-arms in breaking down the stigma that only national reporters add any substance to the conversation). Passan is a bit of a schmuck, and I agree with MBLTR’s Ben that saying this is a bad deal from Tulo’s standpoint is kinda retarded, but it seems the blind squirrel found an acorn this time.

ATTENTION CITIZENS: DAN UGGLA IS NOT A THIRD BASEMAN. That is all.

by J-Freak on Dec 1, 2010 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Unnecessary and risky...

But not as risky as letting your star player go nuts, win an MVP or two, lead the team to a few more playoff seasons and completely price himself out of your team’s budget.

Nothing says, “Thanks, fans!!” like leaving loose ends that can potentially come back to haunt you when your franchise player walks away.

If Tulo hasn’t peaked yet, the items I mentioned above are well within his grasp, as evidenced by a fifth-place finish in MVP voting despite missing 40 games. All of a sudden, other teams are offering $25-30MM and the Rockies have absolutely no shot at resigning him…the hometown discount at that point is probably $20MM at best anyway.

There’s an obvious double-edged sword here, and that other edge that most experts are ignoring is Tulo improving. From an expert’s standpoint, it makes all the sense in the world to say it’s bad, because if you’re wrong, it’s an unexpected surprise. But what the experts haven’t realized is that Tulowitzki is much more likely to get better before he gets worse, and that improvement could have left the Rockies out in the cold.

If they simply waited around for Tulo to declare his undying love for the organization, and then accept a handsome hometown discount, it could have turned disastrous.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Dec 1, 2010 3:17 AM EST up reply actions  

How much more can he really improve though? If not for his unbelievably, fantasmically amazing September, we wouldn’t be talking about him as being THAT good. He had a .319/.383/ .502 line through August. That average and OBP are right in line with his end of year totals, but his slugging was boosted a whopping 66 points by that one month. I know everyone’s going to leap down my throat for saying it, but we all know that a player’s perceived value is still pretty fairly tied to counting stats these days, and consider that he hit more homers in September than he did in the other five months of the year COMBINED, to go with 40 September RBIs compared to only 55 over the other five months. He was on pace for 16 total HRs before the baseball gods anointed him in the final month. That kind of performance is not repeatable. He also missed time with injury in the middle months of the year, and this is not the first time in his career he’s had a decently sized DL stint.

Look, I’m not knocking on Tulo. He’s a very good player, but you more or less know what you’re getting from him: a good BA/OBP, roughly 22-27 HRs/90-100 RBI if he remains healthy. He set a high for HRs with 32 last year, which seems like a slight outlier compared to other performances, and he set average and OBP highs this year. His career .857 OPS is something to write home about, but not something to set the world on fire. But whether he remains healthy is always going to be a sizable question mark with him. He’s a well above average player, but not the kind of sure thing health-wise or mythical A-Rod type talent that you sign to a ridiculous amount of money for a decade. I still contend this deal could have been made any time during the year 2013- which gives them two or three more seasons to evaluate their stance- and the money would look mostly the same. You’re right that baseball salaries have skyrocketed over the last two decades, but that sort of growth is not sustainable, and we’re seeing it begin to plateau in the last couple of seasons (partially due to the economy, but also due to the fact that baseball becomes an unsustainable business model if that sharp increase continues ad infinitum and the Alex Coras of the world begin reeling in 8-10 million just to be the 25th man off the bench, and all the logical implications that go along with that). They will continue to creep up, sure, but we’re not going to be talking about Bryce Harper the $50 million dollar man in 2020.

ATTENTION CITIZENS: DAN UGGLA IS NOT A THIRD BASEMAN. That is all.

by J-Freak on Dec 1, 2010 3:46 AM EST up reply actions  

His injuries are fluky...

It’s not like he’s got a preexisting condition that will hinder his performance in years to come. Slices his hand open on a broken bat, breaks his wrist when hit by a pitch.

His career OBP is marred by the year he sliced his hand open…his past two seasons of mid-.900s are certainly repeatable.

Check out how many SS have two or more seasons with an OPS above .900. Other than the steroid era, it’s an elite group, all HoFers, or borderline guys. Ripken only did it a couple times, Yount a couple, Larkin and Trammell a couple. Before that, you have to go back to Ernie Banks. The steroid era added a few names, some of whom may deserve it and several that clearly don’t.

Also, it’s a bit shortsighted to say you know what a guy’s going to do and that 32 HR is an outlier when he did it at the age of 24. I mean, that’s just not using common sense. He’s not even at his prime yet, and he’s still accomplishing a lot of things that were relatively unheard of for a player of his position, at any age, before steroids got a grip on the league.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Dec 1, 2010 4:10 AM EST up reply actions  

I didn’t even realize he’s only 24. Yeah, there’s no way you can say you know what you’re going to get from him, either positively or negatively. It’s very likely he’s only getting better.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Dec 1, 2010 5:27 AM EST up reply actions  

To be clear...

He’s 26 now (and next season will count as his 26-year-old season…bday is in October, so that’s actually accurate).

He hit 32 DINGERZ at 24.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Dec 1, 2010 9:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Still, doing all that at 25 is crazy.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Dec 1, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think locking him up is necessarily a bad thing, but the Rockies have other key tools in place to help them win like Gonzalez and Jimenez. When the time comes, how are they going to keep them? I don’t know if either of them are willing to take less money than what they’re offered to stay (which, in my opinion, is highly unlikely), but Gonzalez is a Scott Boras client and would demand a very fat check the Rockies would be unable to pay.

This is exactly why I don’t like giving a huge contract to a single player: it has a lot of potential to hamstring the organization (unless it’s the Yankees). I don’t mind the length of the contract so much as the amount associated with it.

The birth of Jason Heyward was God’s punishment for the sins of the people in New York and Philly.

by TonyAlmeyda on Nov 30, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

But is it worth it to lock him in so prematurely?...

like say with Ryan Howard. Are baseball salaries really about to rise to $30m+ annually for the elite players so that locking in elite players like Howard and Tulo at $20-25m per or so, well before their current deals run out, a smart business move? I’m thinking they, while Tulo is younger and probably ages better than Howard, are doing the same thing and coughing up big cash prematurely, when they could likely agree to similar terms in a year or two without having to guarantee the money should a significant injury occur during that 12-24 month span between now and when the extension kicks in.

I could see it with say a Pujols or Adrian Gonzalez entering their contract year, but for guys like Howard and Tulo with 2-3 years remaining on their current deals, I don’t agree.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 1, 2010 8:23 AM EST up reply actions  

But that is because you don't think $30 million salaries will be sustainable in the future.

The Rockies, on the other hand, have seen the books. They probably have a better idea where the future of salaries is going. I also see Howard and Tulo as night and day here—-Howard is significantly older with a skill set that does not age particularly well while Tulo is 24 and hasn’t even entered his prime. That being said, there is certainly some risk for the Rockies—-there is no way to know how good Tulo will be 10 years from now.

by cavebird on Dec 1, 2010 9:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Touche cavebird, touche'

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 1, 2010 9:54 AM EST up reply actions  

I seriously doubt that Escobar will make 4-5 mil I thought the estimates were that he would make around 2.5-3mil?

Either way it was a good trade for the Braves just disappointed that Collins was traded for no reason. Ankiel and Farnsworth weren’t as good for us as we’d hoped but hindsight is 20/20

by drumzalicious on Nov 30, 2010 1:18 PM EST reply actions  

We’ll have to see in a month or so, but if he gets anything less than 4 million I’d be shocked.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Even after a horrid year this year?

or will his previous seasons make that seem like an anomaly, with it only impacting his second arb year if he continues the downward spiral?

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 1, 2010 8:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Remember Marcus Giles? The reason the Braves got rid of him was because he was going to arbitration again and looking to get a raise up to 5 million or more even after a crappy year. If a one dimensional second baseman was worth 5 million heading into 2007, then I’d guarantee a guy with Escobar’s physical tools at shorstop will get 4 million heading into 2011.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Dec 1, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Ok, maybe not guarantee, but still.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Dec 1, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Can we please...

Pull another Uggla trade but this time with the Mets for Jose Reyes haha.

by braves077 on Nov 30, 2010 1:25 PM EST reply actions  

Shit…let’s aim higher and get David Wright!

by TBuzz on Nov 30, 2010 2:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I'm telling you...

bring back Dayton Moore once the Royals fire him for sending us Greinke, Wil Myers, and 3-4 other of their top prospects for Lowe, Kawakami, and Rohrbough.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 1, 2010 8:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Will Myers is really good. Their whole farm system is just sick.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Dec 1, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Let's see if it actually pans out for them...

maybe it’s just the fact they’re Royals, but I’m skeptical that several don’t bust for them.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 1, 2010 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

As long as two or three of those guys turn out reasonably well they’ll be great. It’s ridiculous. I was at a Team USA exhibition at the end of September and got to see Eric Hosmer, Matt Moustakas, Danny Duffy, Mike Montgomery, and Tim Collins play in the same game. It’s pretty ridiculous.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Dec 1, 2010 5:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Could Prado play short?

by Broccoman on Nov 30, 2010 2:03 PM EST reply actions  

Well defensively he’s a below average 2nd baseman so I’m guessing it wouldn’t be pretty.

"That guy mvhsbball is really an insufferable schmuck." - FuquaManuel

by Scott Coleman on Nov 30, 2010 2:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

He could, and he has, but he shouldn’t. His defense at short would not be good.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2010 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

A. Gonzo vs Yunel, Gonzo is what you got like it or not.

It is simple, as I have stated A. Gonzo was playing way over his head and you can forget about him putting up those HR’s #’s again in 2011 and this is a definate area of need for the 2012 Braves, I hopeful leadoff hitter that could play SS ? Who knows.

Anyways Yunel needs to take a more professional approach to his play on the field. Stop with the goofy lackluster defensive play, werid batting stances habit a’la batting flicking and drawing signs in the dirt and get in their and just hit, perhaps more trips to the cage and less to the Miami night clubs would benefit the former Brave.

A Gonzo may never be as good of a player as Yunel may one day become but oh well. Gonzo right now is the Braves best option at a thin free agent market for SS and an even thinner Braves farm system for MLB ready SS and more worrysome 3B for that matter.

GO braves.

by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Nov 30, 2010 6:52 PM EST reply actions  

I like Gonzalez, he’s a good defensive SS. His OB% is about as bad as an OB% can be, but for $2.5M, I’m fine with him if he gets close to his .250 career avg and ANYWHERE close to his career avg 16 HR.

Free Matt Young!

by bighop on Nov 30, 2010 7:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I was a fan of the Gonzo Esco trade...

But I gotta tell you… when Sea Bass gave up on that line drive in the 8th or 9th inning of whatever game it was in the NLDS… I just about lost it… Considering attitude was cited as a reason for the trade.

Go USA, Braves, BU Terriers, Irish, Caps, Colts, Hoyas, NU Cats, Wizards, DC United, Washington Freedom
BU Hockey: National Champions 1971, 1972, 1978, 1995, 2009

by SuperNewb on Nov 30, 2010 8:14 PM EST reply actions  

Sex?…Sex?

Carpe Diaz

by GoBravesNY on Nov 30, 2010 9:13 PM EST reply actions  

So few people will get this reference.

One of the few pick up lines that trumps “who wants to sex the Mutombo”

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Dec 1, 2010 9:58 AM EST up reply actions  

I didn't,...

help?

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 1, 2010 10:12 AM EST up reply actions  

It's been noted

That limited English didn’t dissuade Yunel Escobar from hitting the town at night, and there have been a sighting once or twice, of Escobar in night spots, going up to attractive women and pretty much asking “Sex?…Sex?”

Have to imagine it would have worked better if he were in full uniform so that the gold diggers would know right away that they could be banging a professional baseball player.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Dec 1, 2010 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

gracias senor spambot

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 1, 2010 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

It's still worth pointing out

People predicted (and I certainly wasn’t the only one) that Yunel Escobar would offensively out-perform Alex Gonzalez for the remainder of the 2010 season, and he did by a fair margin.

Yunel’s wOBA: .314
Gonzo’s wOBA: .292

To head off a counter-argument that I know is coming, that’s more than the park adjustment.

Also, it’s important to clarify the point that the Braves had a .290 wOBA from Yunel, and a .292 wOBA from Gonzo, so it’s not like they actually improved offensively at the position, and given the excellent defensive work from Esco, they didn’t improve defensively either. It was a win-now move that didn’t help the Braves to win now. I’m still slightly mad about it.

by Bronn on Nov 30, 2010 9:49 PM EST reply actions  

Just decided to honor a rainy day with some rain on whatever parade this is.

by Bronn on Nov 30, 2010 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

You could argue about the defense, because the metrics I looked at showed Gonzalez as being better. As far as the offense, there’s no guarantee that Escobar would have done the same thing in Atlanta. He found a new mentor in Jose Bautista and that helped him out a lot. The fact that the team wasn’t behind Escobar and that Bobby just didn’t want him around anymore is really the biggest factor in all of this.

And, because we can’t assume that Escobar would have performed equally in the second half if he had still been in Atlanta, all we can do is compare Gonzalez’s second half to Escobar’s first half, and that was clearly in the favor of Gonzalez. (Your newfangled stats be damned!)

I’m going to make a big wager here and say that Escobar continues to mire himself in medocrity in 2011, and by 2012 nobody will really remember why we thought he’d be that great in the first place.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2010 10:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d take that wager. Certainly no guarantees that he’s going to be great, but he’s an excellent defensive shortstop and can post average or above average offense. The smart money is on an average 2011 from him.

What bugs me is that the move seems extremely shortsighted because he was capable of at least holding down the position for several years for us, and in return we got a two-year stop gap (along with a prospect that might post similar production to Yunel), and it seems the main reason we dealt him is because he didn’t get along with Bobby Cox. We could have lived with another half-year of the two together, especially Yunel had previously managed to succeed underneath him fairly well, knowing that we’d be hiring someone else fairly soon. Oh, and it was widely expected that the odds-on favorite to replace Bobby Cox was certain manager born in Cuba who might have related better with Yunel.

Seems like we should have waited a few months, since we were already in first place, and seen if maybe the next guy could work with a guy who has a career OBP 70 points higher than the man we replaced him with.

by Bronn on Nov 30, 2010 10:18 PM EST up reply actions  

(Side note)

70 career points of OBP are 19 more than the difference between Jeff Francoeur and Evan Longoria.

by Bronn on Nov 30, 2010 10:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Freddi Gonzalez had already been fired at that point, and while it’ll probably never be proven, I’m guessing that Gonzalez was already a part of the decision making process and that after just dealing with a primadona in Ramirez, he didn’t want another one in Escobar. Even if that wasn’t the case, if you can’t play for Bobby Cox, you just can’t play. Everyone gets along with him, but Yunel just couldn’t. That’s not the kind of guy you want on a team and it was probably a great decision to get rid of him while there was still some value to get.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2010 10:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I can buy that...

they’d already talked with Fredi, and gotten his answer on the subject, which negates the “Bobby only had a few months left to deal with him” stuff if Fredi echoed Cox’s sentiments.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 1, 2010 8:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Also, need to issue a correct in the above numbers

Yunel’s pre-trade wOBA: .290
Gonzo’s post trade wOBA: .292

Don’t know why I posted what I did, I certainly meant to illustrate that they were very similar, even if Gonzo was (ever so) slightly better. We basically got the exact same shortstop production all year long, offensively.

by Bronn on Nov 30, 2010 10:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Is this a bad time to point out that Edgar Renteria is available…again!

by TBuzz on Nov 30, 2010 11:43 PM EST up reply actions  

The fact that the team wasn’t behind Escobar and that Bobby just didn’t want him around anymore is really the biggest factor in all of this.

There is no metric to measure that so, for all intents and purposes, it’s irrelevant and didn’t happen.

by Sam Jethroe on Dec 2, 2010 12:36 AM EST up reply actions  

It’s scary that some people seem to think that way.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Dec 2, 2010 1:03 AM EST up reply actions  

What could've been

I’m stilled pissed at Yunel for adversely affecting Bobby’s last year and the future of the Braves organization.

by JFP on Dec 1, 2010 12:20 AM EST reply actions  

Hmm...

The birth of Jason Heyward was God’s punishment for the sins of the people in New York and Philly.

by TonyAlmeyda on Dec 1, 2010 1:03 AM EST reply actions  

So...

should I ban you tonight, or give you until the morning?

If that ever happened, I would shoot Frank Wren in the face.

"That guy mvhsbball is really an insufferable schmuck." - FuquaManuel

by Scott Coleman on Dec 1, 2010 1:19 AM EST up reply actions  

I KID I KID!! I thought it was funny.

I’m not suggesting it or anything; I don’t want him either. Jeter was shopped in each team’s uni, so I thought I’d post that to see everyone’s reaction. I’m getting a strong hint you don’t like it. :)

The birth of Jason Heyward was God’s punishment for the sins of the people in New York and Philly.

by TonyAlmeyda on Dec 1, 2010 1:37 AM EST up reply actions  

lol

I’m just kidding….about banning you. I would still shoot Wren in the face, though.

"That guy mvhsbball is really an insufferable schmuck." - FuquaManuel

by Scott Coleman on Dec 1, 2010 1:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I figured that. However...

it presented me an opportunity to do this:

The birth of Jason Heyward was God’s punishment for the sins of the people in New York and Philly.

by TonyAlmeyda on Dec 1, 2010 2:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Well he was a Braves fan growing up...

and some believe the World is going to end in 2012, which is the year he’s a free agent.

Jason Heyward and Albert Pujols in Atlanta: killing the National League AND the planet, one pitch at a time.

"That guy mvhsbball is really an insufferable schmuck." - FuquaManuel

by Scott Coleman on Dec 1, 2010 2:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Turner field would explode from the awesomness.

"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones

by MBL1 on Dec 1, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Whoever’s body that is looks weird on Pujols’ head.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Dec 1, 2010 2:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Jeter's?

same body as his ps.

And if it weren’t for price, I’d like Jeter as RH bat, possible leaadoff for CF or SS. But then, we have to get the man who gave Jessica Alba herpes, so that’s a huge negative. Then again, if it means more shots of Minka Kelly in the stands during games, that’s a huge plus. I’m torn damn it!

If he’s not a Yankee, why do I think he’ll head back home to Detroit?

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 1, 2010 8:43 AM EST up reply actions  

I think the bodies are all different. In the Indians jersey, he looks bloated.

The birth of Jason Heyward was God’s punishment for the sins of the people in New York and Philly.

by TonyAlmeyda on Dec 1, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

If he gave Jessica Alba herpes...

Does this mean a Minka Kelly infestation is impending.

I know the disease is treatable and preventable, but we really got to get this guy to stop ruining it for us little guys who don’t have a shot in the first place.

Or maybe this is a gift he’s giving us…tainting the wimens and making them more available to the average Joe once he’s moved on to his next stunning girlfriend…

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Dec 1, 2010 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

i havent told you I have herpes becuase its not inflamed at the moment

"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Dec 1, 2010 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Solid move.

I didn’t mention my HIV because I’m planning out your birthday gift five years in advance.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Dec 1, 2010 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

And the game bleeds over to TC, nice.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Dec 1, 2010 5:47 PM EST up reply actions  

he set me up so perfectly. Interesting enough I thought we might run out of quotes. Apparently not.

"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Dec 1, 2010 7:07 PM EST up reply actions  

The only reason I’d run out of quotes from that movie is because every line had been said. Love it.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Dec 2, 2010 1:04 AM EST up reply actions  

thats what i meant by run out…we basically recreated the movie

"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Dec 2, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

And let's be honest...

when has that game not been a part of the dorky TC commenters back and forth? We’ve been doing it since I came around, that’s for sure. Most notably to me was my numerous Simpsons quote-offs with Beard.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 2, 2010 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

who?

never heard of this Beard character….

"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Dec 2, 2010 5:10 PM EST up reply actions  

As I'm scrolling down

I was literally praying to see a fat player in the exact same picture, like CC Sabathia or Prince Fielder shoe-horned into the same Braves uni.

Disappointed, i am.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Dec 1, 2010 10:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Can we stick him in CF?...

and have him agree for less than the Yanks offered him?

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 1, 2010 8:39 AM EST up reply actions  

This is a good writeup, CB. I just had that we have to read about Alex Gonzalez being on the Braves…

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Dec 1, 2010 6:04 AM EST reply actions  

That doesn’t make any sense…

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Dec 1, 2010 7:07 AM EST up reply actions  

I just hate that we have....?

"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"

"You look like you should be married to one of the San Diego Padres."

by Doghnut on Dec 1, 2010 7:49 AM EST up reply actions  

you seem surprised…which confuses me…

"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Dec 1, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

sez teh kinge off tipoes.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Dec 1, 2010 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

:)

"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Dec 1, 2010 7:08 PM EST up reply actions  

*hate

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Dec 1, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

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