Braves financial standing...
by ryan c on Oct 17, 2010 11:58 AM EDT
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PrintAssuming the Braves pick up Alex Gonzalez and Omar Infante's 2011 option, the Braves will have 67 million dollars committed to the following 9 players: Tim Hudson, Derek Lowe, Chipper Jones, Brian McCann, Nate McLouth, Omar Infante, Alex Gonzalez, Kenshin Kawakami, and David Ross.
The following players are highly likely to make the 2011 roster and will receive arbitration raises. My guesses for the raises:
10. Peter Moylan: 1.6 million
11. Martin Prado: 2.4 million
12. Jair Jurrjens: 2.5 million
13. Eric O'Flaherty: 1.2 million
(74.7 million total)
The following players will be making league minimum and are highly likely to make the 2011 roster:
14. Jason Heyward
15. Tommy Hanson
16. Craig Kimbrel
17. Jonny Venters
18. Freddie Freeman
19. Michael Dunn
21. Brooks Conrad
On an average, these players will probably make around 450 k each, so that's approximately 4.5million total for 10 players.
(79.2 million total)
Other options for cheap bullpen spots/bench spots from Gwinnett:
1. Stephen Marek- 1.43 era and 1.13 whip in 50.1 IP. He seems like he found something in 2010. His K rate shot up to 10.5/9 while his walk rate went down to 2.8/9.
2. Barbaro Canizares- The dude can hit and his glove isnt near as bad as it's been made out to be. He could be a very useful spot starter for Freddie and will give good quality atbats off the bench. His .907 ops in 2010 should not be overlooked.
3. Matt Young- A personal favorite of mine, this guy can do a lot for any team. He can play second in a pinch and has the range to play any of the outfield positions. He has a career .390 obp and his sb% has gotten better year after year. He's what any team needs coming off the bench: a dependable glove that can get on base and steal one as well.
So, with that being said, if the Braves were to find a taker for Kenshin Kawakami, Nate McLouth, or Derek Lowe, and use their AAA strengths to fill out the bench, they could add some pretty significant payroll whether it's via trade or free agency.
GO BRAVES!
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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This would be the absolute perfect time to trade DLowe.
I’d love to see what FW could do with the team if he cleared up $20-30M for the next two years. Even if they’re not quite as good, Beachy or Minor for $450K is a million times better than Lowe for $15M.
'Terrible preview...pretty weak, didn't learn anything new. pretty sad." - mastermike
by Scott Coleman on Oct 17, 2010 2:49 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
exactly
This is one of my reasons why we should trade Lowe. Beachy and Minor are capable of at least being just as productive as Lowe and a whole hell of a lot cheaper. Also, Lowe’s trade value is at his highest right now, kinda like Vazquez last year. That trade seemed to work out, right?
by Braves24 on Oct 18, 2010 7:18 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Minor, yes
Not so convinced on Beachy over the long haul.
by Andy Braves Fan on Oct 18, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
me either…and i’ve been wanting to say this for a while…but was afraid of the backlash from uninformed posters (i don’t mind objection from the people who know what they are talking about)…
Beachy reminds me of JoJo Reyes…he is dominant in the minors and has shown flashes of talent in the majors…but when you look at his stuff it just doesn’t translate. Beachy’s fastball is very straight and doesnt have enough velocity to compensate for that… the same is true for JoJo….
both of his pitches work off his fastball, the change and the curve…if he cannot throw his fastball for strikes (and not have it get hit) he will struggle (which is true of most guys, but his lack of movement hurts him).
Now this is all based on my perception that he doesnt have a lot of movement on his fastball i could very well be wrong and then the whole analysis goes to shit…also I am not saying he will be like JoJo…as JoJo eventually forgot to throw strikes and ultimately that was what hurt him the most.
"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."
Dwight Schrute
the fastball movement has me concerned the most
throwing 90 without movement is a recipe for disaster in the MLB
by kbertling353 on Oct 21, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
he was above 90...
around 93/94, and I thought he looked fine if he could keep the ball down.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
except
Beachy walks less and strikes out more.
before he lost all confidence upon promotion to the majors.. JoJo was routinely striking out more than a batter an inning and was walking around 2 per 9….so it wasnt a considerable difference in their stats…and considering the general similarities between their pitching styles…i care less about variations as small as are present between the two.
I do realize looking at JoJo’s career minor league numbers shows he was considerably worse, but he really struggled after 2007 to find his old form.
the Kyle Davies comp was also used and I would say that relatively a propos, as well.
"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."
Dwight Schrute
a running joke in baseballl...
there’s no such thing as a pitching prospect. pitchers are hit or miss (ever thought venters would be this good?). no offense, but i think you’re wasting time on comps for beachy. pitching just doesnt work like that.
Smelky is not a good player. Noone can convince me otherwise.
o i absolutely agree….but if we arent gonna discuss the players on the Braves what the hell are we gonna do around here, besides complain about the texiera trade and whine about ESPN never giving us enough respect….
i dont pretend to know Beachy’s future, all I can say is what he reminds me of. he probably will have a very differnet future than JoJo, I sure hope he does….
"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."
Dwight Schrute
The $15MM question is, "who will want Lowe at $15MM per year for a WAR of 1.7 and an ERA+ of 98? A 2008 ERA+ of 88? He’s just not that good and he’s really, really expensive.
I agree that, for the money, Beachy is better than Lowe. The problem is that no major league GM will take Lowe and his contract from Atlanta. The Braves probably can’t give him away. He’s going to pitch here until his contract is up and that’s it. Trading him is a pipe dream, unless somebody gets stupid at the deadline.
Carrying on Bobby's Legacy!
by FrediGonzalez on Oct 18, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
derek lowe's value...
it’s hard to get market value and durability from any pitcher and derek lowe isnt any different. derek has proven to be very durable, but according to fangraphs, he’s only been worth 22.7 of the 30 million that he has been paid the first 2 years. if a team was looking to add a durable pitcher and derek lowe meets their needs, then they’ll probably ask the braves to eat a part of his salary. if the braves were to eat only the excess of the market value, that would be 7.3 million over the next 2 years. that would equal 3.65 million each year.
so the question is: if the braves could trade lowe for market value and eat 3.65 million of his contract each year and sign a rebound candidate (such as vazquez) for around 5 million, should they do it? it seems logical. would they do it? probably not. it would save quite a chunk of change, though and would really set up a nice 2012 rotation of:
hanson, hudson, medlen, jurrjens, teheran….man, if someone doesnt get traded, our logjammed rotation is going to get worse.
Smelky is not a good player. Noone can convince me otherwise.
that dont HAVE to...
but expecting 2 rookies to be penciled in as the #4 and 5 starters is on the brink of insanity, and having depth be an issure rather than a luxury would be my 2 reasons.
Smelky is not a good player. Noone can convince me otherwise.
I think they'd do it, yes....
Vazquez could easily rebound back here (he’s done it before going to and from NYC), and I’d assume the front office would love to say ~$12m or redirect it to other areas.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
is it safe to say javy vazquez doesnt like pitching in new york?
look at his 2 worst years. his k rate completely drops off the map.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=801&position=P
Smelky is not a good player. Noone can convince me otherwise.
We would really have to check the medicals.
Vazquez’s velocity was way down this year. There might be an issue there.
regarding velocity...
i’m not sure what was going on with vazquez during the middle of the year, but by the end of the year, his velocity was pretty much back. he was throwing 92-94 mph fastballs.
Smelky is not a good player. Noone can convince me otherwise.
who said I would pencil 2 rookies in for the #4 and #5 starters?
KK would be one of the starter and Minor would be the other. Beachy would be in AAA in case of an injury/or someone is not effective
well, that my frend...
would be a really bad idea.
Smelky is not a good player. Noone can convince me otherwise.
Who said...
…he was your frend? And what is a frend, anyway?
keep thinking that
while the whole league would enjoy KK has their fourth/fifth starter
ok...fair enough....
but would the whole league want beachy/minor and kawakami as their 4th/5th starter?
Smelky is not a good player. Noone can convince me otherwise.
but would the whole league want beachy/minor and kawakami as their 4th/5th starter?
Hudson, Hanson, and JJ are the top three. I think the whole league would love to have that pitching staff. That would still be a top five rotation in the majors.
fail
but would the whole league want beachy/minor and kawakami as their 4th/5th starter?
but the whole league...
doesnt have a top three that good, so putting those as your bottom 2 makes your whole rotation worse. you can disagree, but the “fail” post is immature and takes away from your credibility. i’m glad youre a justiinincredubil follower and would rather insult a blogger rather than actually debate a point.
my point: kawakami pitched very poorly last year (in AAA and in the majors), minor didnt set the world on fire either, and beachy was incredibly lucky in his short stint. making your last 2 spots in your rotation serious question marks would be highly risky, not to mention that your #3 starter had injury woes all year and pitched worse than he ever has in his major league stint.
and, i hope you’re right that the whole league would want kawakami as their 5th starter, but i highly doubt that considering wren is already shopping him for a return to japan.
Smelky is not a good player. Noone can convince me otherwise.
his fail post was in reference to his own post…so its really less immature and more comical…
"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."
Dwight Schrute
serrilusly
i reeeealllly wanna see lowe pitch next year for the braves
he is nasty right now, he is going to be nasty next year, i am nearly sure of it.
he was getting rakes in ’09 because he had lost his deception, and has since figured it out… he had a mediocre ’10 for most of the season, but consistently got ground balls..
now, he is pitching like a madman
derek lowe monthly splits...career....
i didnt want to bring this up about lowe because i totally wanted to believe the hype, but derek’s dominant september/october is nothing new…
here are derek’s career era splits by month:
mar/apr: 3.68
may: 4.10
june: 3.84
july: 4.86
august: 3.45
sept/oct: 3.23
Smelky is not a good player. Noone can convince me otherwise.
trading lowe...
creates a problem unless the braves sign a stopgap for julio teheran. expecting one of either beachy or minor to stay healthy and pitch effective is probably ok, but asking both and not having a 6th man to lean on in the minors might be pushing it. i’d love to see the braves trade lowe and re-sign javy vazquez, keeping beachy or minor in gwinnett for the beginning of the 2010 season.
Smelky is not a good player. Noone can convince me otherwise.
Well then....
Hello, Brian Cashman: would you do Vazquez for Lowe, straight up (if we can agree with Javy for a 1 yr. deal at $4-5m)?
Bobby Cox, advising Jeff Francoeur about being thrown out of a game: "you’ll probably have to write a $500 check. Or you can do what I do, write a $10,000 one and tell them when it runs out, let me know."
Ummm...
…Yankees can’t trade Vazquez, he is a free agent.
arrrgghh -- yes, I forgot that bit.
Consider me corrected.
Bobby Cox, advising Jeff Francoeur about being thrown out of a game: "you’ll probably have to write a $500 check. Or you can do what I do, write a $10,000 one and tell them when it runs out, let me know."
It would be a huge help if Wren could trade Lowe.
Then we would have enough money to sign Carl Crawford. And then we could maybe sign a vetran starter to a one year deal to replace Lowe, and have Minor, Beachy, and KK to battle it out for the fifth spot. It’s a perfect plan.
Thanks Bobby!
?
I hope that was a joke, but I would guess it is not. Saving $30 million on Lowe will NOT clear enough money to sign Carl Crawford, period. Crawford will be the next $100 million dollar man so you can count him out of our plans all together. Werth too for that matter.
new dob blog...
DOB put up a new blog that has wren quoted saying the braves payroll will be between 90-93 million of "actual money. if the braves could trade kawakami’s contract, that would put the approximate payroll at 73 million. a lot can happen with 20-23 million dollars cash to spend on 4 players.
Smelky is not a good player. Noone can convince me otherwise.
Actualy money...
…means you have to add $400K and 15 for the guys on the 40 man who are not on the 25 man roster. It also includes any incentives, etc.
how do you know that's what he meant?
do you have any inside info? sure, there was some fishy things going on last year with payroll calculations, but i’ve never seen any other team in baseball calculate their payroll by adding in their 40-man.
Smelky is not a good player. Noone can convince me otherwise.
no
but logically that is what actual money means. Notice that the Braves have said that their payroll should be about that amount every year since Liberty Media bought the team. It was about 84 million this season. Unless LM is going to magically add almost $10 million (it won’t), than that is what that means.
by Andy Braves Fan on Oct 18, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Magically add?
With the funds generated from the playoffs alone Liberty Media should be able to add to the payroll. How bout we wait and see what “actual funds” mean first by letting the offseason play out.
Sure
But I wouldn’t be too optomistic. I remember the $90 million figure being thrown around last season only to have the payroll remain at $84 million. Meanwhile somebody else on the blog (forget who) pointed out that payroll had been slashed by small amounts in consecutive years. I’m more than a little disappointed in ownership.
by Andy Braves Fan on Oct 18, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
LM didn’t really reduce payroll – the Braves chose to internally defer some of the available money for two reasons:
(1) to have some flexibility to make mid-season moves
(2) to save money for all the players we were going to have hitting arbitration this year (JJ, Prado, Escobar, etc.)
even after the moves midseason
the payroll was at $84 million. And arbitration would be factored into the next offseason and payroll for 2011. So why would leaving payroll space this season effect arbitration?
by Andy Braves Fan on Oct 20, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Nobody will take Kawakami, either, for the same reasons that they won’t take Lowe. The team is just going to have to eat pretty much all of both of those contracts. Long term deals for FA-type players won’t work for us. The money that is available to the Mets, Phillies, Red Sox, and Yankees just isn’t here. Lowe was a terrible signing.
He’s an ok/average pitcher capable of rising up on occasion, but he’s got a really bad contract, especially for a team like the Braves.
Carrying on Bobby's Legacy!
by FrediGonzalez on Oct 18, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Earning 22 million for him is a good performance
problem is, we paid him 30. It’s hard to be angry at a guy not living up to a contract any rational person can’t see him living up to. Is Lee worth 15-20 million a year? Because if we can sign him to a long term deal after eating most of Lowe’s contract in a deal, I would be ok with that.
"Voetbal is pas totaal als je wint"- Coach Adun
"The greatest sin is to spurn the gift"- Coach Alistair
MLB minimum
That is a really good list of players at the minimum. For all the sucky Kawakami/Lowe contracts, that’s a fabulous list of young, cost-controlled talent. And there’s more on the horizon. The Marlins get a lot of love for doing this, but we’re doing good work in the minors, too.
Carrying on Bobby's Legacy!
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