Top-5 Off-Season Questions For The Atlanta Braves: #5
This concludes the five-part series on the top off-season questions facing the Atlanta Braves.
Question Five: To Tender or Non-Tender
With this question I'll take a look at which players the Braves might tender contracts to next year, and which ones they will not. Obviously guaranteed contracts don't count, so Derek Lowe, Chipper Jones, Tim Hudson, Brian McCann, David Ross, and Nate McLouth will all be back unless traded. So to will Kenshin Kawakami, who has a guaranteed contract of almost $7M.
I've written about Kenshin earlier in this series, and suggested that the Braves may choose to just cut KK loose and eat the rest of his contract. With a spotty Major League track record and a fairly sizable contract he would be a tough pitcher to trade. The smart move for the Braves, if they can't trade him, would be to wait until spring training to make a decision on him. That would give them an opportunity to see their other starting options, and decide which ones will be the best. The trade market for KK may also be better in spring than the off-season.
Kyle Farnsworth can opt out of his option year, a right he received through a clause in his contract that allows him to void his option if he is traded. If he does not opt out, then the Braves will likely buy him out for the $0.25M clause in his contract rather than pick up that option at a cost of $5.25M. Farnsworth is a decent power reliever, though somewhat erratic, and he's never shown a desire to pitch in Atlanta.
The other Royal-acquisition, Rick Ankiel, has a $0.5 buyout on a mutual option for 2011 worth $6M. The presence of Nate McLouth makes Ankiel a bit redundant in center field, especially since McLouth's contract is guaranteed, and McLouth showed more at the plate at the end of the season than Ankiel. Expect the Braves to punt.
The Braves have club options on infielders Alex Gonzalez and Omar Infante. Each option is for $2.5M; pretty reasonable for those guys. I expect the Braves to pick up the options on both of these guys.
Takashi Saito is a free agent, and I don't expect him to return. Melky Cabrera is a third-year arbitration case and there's almost no way he comes back. If the Braves somehow do tender him a contract ... no, wait, that will never happen. At least it better not happen.
Matt Diaz is arbitration eligible for the fourth time, and while he's cheaper than Melky would be, I still don't think the Braves will spend any money on him. It's time for them to go a different direction in the outfield, and that includes getting rid of Diaz.
Eric Hinske and Troy Glaus are free agents, and I hope to see Hinske back, but I wonder if he'll take his services to yet another team. He's likely the top pinch hitter on the free agent market, and that could drive his price out of the Braves range. Glaus will not be back.
Peter Moylan is an interesting case. He's a second year arbitration case, and even though he'll be expensive for what the Braves typically pay for middle relievers, I expect the Braves to tender him a contract. The first year arbitration cases, Jair Jurrjens, Eric O'Flaherty, and Martin Prado, will also be tendered contracts. They'll only receive minor raises.
The Braves will have a lot of the same team coming back next year. There will be some turnover, but there likely won't be as much turnover as there has been in recent off-seasons. One of the main things the Braves need to do is cut ties with some of the chaff on the roster. Melky, Diaz, Ankiel need to go. In a perfect world McLouth and Kawakami would also be off-loaded.
167 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
if i had to speculate
Farnsworth: No
Ankiel: No
Saito: No
Melky: HELL No
Diaz: Yes
Hinske: Will offer contract
Glaus: No
And RE: Moylan. I’m pretty sure he’s represented by the same agent as Furcal (who the Braves said they will no longer deal with) so I’m interested in seeing how that plays out.
I don't recall
Frank Wren ever having said that.
"Jason Heyward was a Greek philosopher reincarnated as a baseball player." - Don Sutton
technically Shuerholz said it, but its all the same…its also probably just postering and anger from an unfortuante scenario
http://www.sportsagentblog.com/2008/12/22/losing-some-pals-over-furcal/
"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."
Dwight Schrute
Non-tender (or buyout), no question:
Melky
Farnsworth
Ankiel
Tender, but see if there’s a better option first:
Diaz
Tender, no questions asked:
Moylan
Try to re-sign:
Hinske
'Terrible preview...pretty weak, didn't learn anything new. pretty sad." - mastermike
No to Hinske
Since Freeman is the heir apparent at 1B I think the Braves need a good RH bat off the bench. Conor Jackson would fit perfectly.
Infante, Ross, ????
Conrad is a switch hitter, but we’ll need a left hander off the bench too looking at above, so Hinske isn’t without a need.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 18, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
My god...Cody Ross is incredible.
'Terrible preview...pretty weak, didn't learn anything new. pretty sad." - mastermike
What are the chances he plays his way into a SF tendered contract?
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Either way, I think he’s just made himself a pile of money…. not Beltranesque money, but the same effect.
Bobby Cox, advising Jeff Francoeur about being thrown out of a game: "you’ll probably have to write a $500 check. Or you can do what I do, write a $10,000 one and tell them when it runs out, let me know."
Ross making money off fools
Incredible right now. He’s collected 8.0 WAR in the last five years and 2.2 in the last 3 years. He’s really not that good. He’s just hot and getting belt-high meatballs middle in. He’s not Albert Pujols or Joey Votto. He’s a replacement level OF with a lifetime OPS+ of 104. Yawn.
Enjoy it, though, for sure.
Carrying on Bobby's Legacy!
by FrediGonzalez on Oct 18, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
This.
"If you were going to make a Mount Rushmore of managers, Bobby's one of them."
-Mike Scioscia
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Oct 18, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
but.... but........ BUT I LOVE MATT DIAZ!!!!!!!!!
Go USA, Braves, BU Terriers, Irish, Caps, Colts, Hoyas, NU Cats, Wizards, DC United, Washington Freedom
BU Hockey: National Champions 1971, 1972, 1978, 1995, 2009
Farnsworth, Ankiel, Melky, and Saito are all gone.
Moylan is tendered, Hinske is going to be attempted to be resigned, and Diaz will be non-tendered and then re-signed for a cheaper amount.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 10:00 PM EDT reply actions
Ankiel stays and moves to the bullpen.
Go USA, Braves, BU Terriers, Irish, Caps, Colts, Hoyas, NU Cats, Wizards, DC United, Washington Freedom
BU Hockey: National Champions 1971, 1972, 1978, 1995, 2009
And the Braves buy Resop’s contract and stick him in LF.
And Tim Hudson plays 3B for the injured Chipper Jones.
Heyward covers ground in RF & CF.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Just about got it...
Also Greg Norton comes out of retirement.
Go USA, Braves, BU Terriers, Irish, Caps, Colts, Hoyas, NU Cats, Wizards, DC United, Washington Freedom
BU Hockey: National Champions 1971, 1972, 1978, 1995, 2009
And Bob Wickman becomes the veteran BP arm Wren is looking for.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Think we could find Scott Thorman to be our power-hitting first baseman of the future?
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Well that's a jerk move.
I just threw up on my screen.
'Terrible preview...pretty weak, didn't learn anything new. pretty sad." - mastermike
by Scott Coleman on Oct 17, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
must be a Phillies fan
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 18, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
And that's before I even mention Chris Reitsma.
"If you were going to make a Mount Rushmore of managers, Bobby's one of them."
-Mike Scioscia
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Oct 18, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
i cant believe he's only 28
"IN THE AIR LEFT FIELD- THAT'LL DO IT!... AND IT KEEPS ON GOING; THAT IS A HOMERUN!"
"Placido Polanco? That guy’s a pussy" -Joe Simpson
I saw on the AJC
In one of DOB’s blogs he said Diaz didn’t care about going to arbitration and he’d basically take any guaranteed money the Braves offered and sign. So we might not even have to give him a raise. Diaz at $1MM (or whatever he got last year) is a steal and the Braves would be dumb not to bring him back as at least a 5th OF.
Yeah
Diaz will stay. The guy loves the Braves and he’s a great clubhouse guy. Don’t see any reason the Braves wouldn’t resign him.
How is Diory’s defense at SS? Hicks?
"They should just give two ROYs in the NL and skip the AL this year." - KLaw
Decent. Great.
'Terrible preview...pretty weak, didn't learn anything new. pretty sad." - mastermike
by Scott Coleman on Oct 17, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Personally, I wouldn’t mind putting Unicorn’s $2 MM toward an OF bat and going with one of them at SS.
"They should just give two ROYs in the NL and skip the AL this year." - KLaw
Personally, I’d rather trade for a cheap OF, and give up Sea Bass’s salary to J.J. Hardy.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I’d rather have Hardy than Unicorn, but, then, where are we spending money? How are we boosting our power/offense?
"They should just give two ROYs in the NL and skip the AL this year." - KLaw
By trade.
We are so stocked in young pitching, that it wouldn’t be difficult to get rid of a few pirces to bolster the offense.
Rosterbation warning (only doing this to answer the question, ha):
Trade Infante & Vizcaino for Colby Rasmus.
Trade Beachy, McLouth & Salcedo for Matt Kemp.
Ta-da.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
*pieces
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t see anyone taking McLouth unless we eat most of his contract. Matt Kemp is expensive to begin with, so there’s no way we could afford to make that move. Plus we just gave Salcedo a big signing bonus. I doubt they would consider moving him yet.
A larger market team like BOS could afford McLouth’s salary.
Kemp isn’t THAT expensive, only around ~8M if memory serves.
If the right deal comes, they would consider moving almost anyone.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
A lot of teams could afford McLouth. But none of them would take him without the Braves kicking in a lot of money, or taking on an equally crappy contract in return. The Braves couldn’t afford to pay Kemp $6.95 million next year and $4 million of McLouths contract. I don’t see why you would want to trade Salcedo, one of our top position prospects, when we have a ton of pitching depth and are weak positionally.
Yeah, the Braves could swing that...
…$4 on McLouth and $7 on Kemp. It is all irrelevant, however, as the Dodgers would want much, much, much more for Kemp than what was hypothetically offered.
Hardy is a much better defensive SS
But i doubt we can afford him, he made over $5 million last year. Plus I don’t see the Twins moving him. Their SS of the future, Plouff, hasn’t showed anything yet.
Also,
Plouff is the ugliest word I have ever heard. It’s like the sound a “silent” fart makes.
by roberty on Oct 17, 2010 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
I’m just hoping the Twins decide to move him since he underperformed (to his standards) last year.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
The Twins are thinking of non tendering Hardy
If so I’d much rather have Hardy than Gonzalez.
Hardy is not particularly better defensively than Sea Bass.
He just isn’t. He’s about the same. And there is plenty of data to compare them. As for hitting, hard to say, 2007-2008 Hardy is vastly better, 2009-2010 Hardy is not any better. He also costs plays and more salary.
IF we could do something magical like add Werth and Rasmus or Kemp in the OF, I think replacing Gonzo with Hicks would be a great idea. Similar to what Wilson Valdez did for Philly this year.
'Terrible preview...pretty weak, didn't learn anything new. pretty sad." - mastermike
by Scott Coleman on Oct 17, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Ehh..
Signing Werth would be crazy already, considering the salary he’d demand. There’s no way we could also add Kemp’s 8M to that. Rasmus would still be at league minimum, but Kemp is already getting paid. I don’t think there’s a way to get Werth and Kemp.
Werth + Rasmus
Werth + Ellsbury
Rasmus and Ellsbury are both at 400k.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Well I thought you knew about my crush on Jayson Werth…but yeah, if we could add two talented outfield hitters I’d rather use hicks and let go of Gonzo. In a perfect world, we would add Josh Willingham and Colby Rasmus. That would be insane.
'Terrible preview...pretty weak, didn't learn anything new. pretty sad." - mastermike
by Scott Coleman on Oct 17, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Everyone knows about your crush on Werth :D
With the Nats possibly losing Dunn, I just don’t see any way the Braves could get Willingham :(
My ideal would be Ellsbury & Kemp.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m betting the Nats will re-sign Dunn. If they were smart (and I’m not sure if they are or not.) they’d load up on prospects who’ll be ready for 2012 or so once Strasburg is 100% and Harper is coming up. Randall Delgado seems like a very fair deal seeing that Willingham only has one year left. We’d probably have to extend his deal first though.
'Terrible preview...pretty weak, didn't learn anything new. pretty sad." - mastermike
by Scott Coleman on Oct 17, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
They would want more than Delgado.
I wouldn’t mind Delgado, Hoover/Diamond, & Hicks/Hernandez, though. Give them a high-upside pitching prospect, a low-upside BP prospect with potential for starting, and a sure handed defensive middle-infield option.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
For one year? 7+ years of a top-20 prospect for 1 year of Willingham on a re-building teams seems more than fair.
'Terrible preview...pretty weak, didn't learn anything new. pretty sad." - mastermike
by Scott Coleman on Oct 17, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
We’d probably have to extend his deal first though.
And not to mention that one year (minimum) is within the division.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Does it matter though? It’s not like the Nats are going to compete in 2011.
'Terrible preview...pretty weak, didn't learn anything new. pretty sad." - mastermike
by Scott Coleman on Oct 17, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
In Wren and Stimpy's defense here...
…while he said it would cost more than just Delgado, the players he suggested adding have no real trade value whatsoever, so he obviously didn’t really mean it.
At the moment, the Nats seem to be going through their annual “We’re in the running for every high-priced free agent out there” fetish. The latest on that being that they’ll throw 5y/$125m on the table for the right pitching ace (i.e., Lee). We’ll have to wait until that bluster yields nothing before they might consider having a phone conversation that involves the name “Willingham” — ‘cuz they think they’re gonna win NOW, dangit!
Now – all that said… I think a Delgado might actually be enough – or darn close to it. I’d love to see him plus one more OF FA roaming the grass…. that would be sweet.
Bobby Cox, advising Jeff Francoeur about being thrown out of a game: "you’ll probably have to write a $500 check. Or you can do what I do, write a $10,000 one and tell them when it runs out, let me know."
For what reasons?
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
LAD GM has said he probably won’t trade Kemp, and I haven’t heard anything recently about Boston trading Ellsbury. What makes you think we can get both?
Rasmus & Kemp might be more realistic.
Or Rasmus & Gardner.
Both teams are in positions where they would entertain offers on those OFers. Attitude issues have made clubhouse tension in both cases.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
“Both teams” referring to LA & BOS.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
That is asking for a lot.
Two blockbuster trades in one offseason? One reason why I think we have a better shot at Crawford/Werth if we trade Lowe. I don’t see us getting more than one starting OF bat. Also, who would you deal in those trades? because if that happened we would be giving up a lot.
That’s why I said Rasmus & Gardner might be more realistic.
LaRussa & Pujols want Rasmus out, and since LaRussa is probably coming back to STL, they will most likely deal Rasmus. They need middle infield help, so trading Infante (and maybe Gonzalez?) plus a couple prospects (Vizcaino & Diamond) would be feasible.
The Yanks have already said they’re going to make a run at Crawford and/or Werth. There’s no way they keep Crawford/Werth AND all of Granderson, Swisher & Gardner. I’d be OK with the Braves getting Swish or Gardner, and I imagine a deal of Minor/Beachy/Jurrjens, plus a few prospects would get the job done there.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok
but who do you give up to get Rasmus? I think the Yanks are going to go after Lee, but they probably could somehow go after Crawford/Werth also.
Rasmus? Infante + Proctor + Vizcaino, and we can throw in Gonzalez if they want.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
that's not going to happen
Infante a is a super utility man in his last year of his contract. Vizcaino was great this year, but was also hurt for most of the second half. Proctor is a 33 year old reliever. There is no way the Cards think about that deal.The Cards are going to want a deal package around JJ/Beachy/Minor or Prado, plus a mid-level prospect.
I disagree.
The Cardinal’s biggest need is help in the middle infield. 2B was a glaring hole for them, and Ryan at SS was great with the glove, but WAY below average with the bat. They would LOVE to have Infante start for them.
Proctor is garbage in the trade. Like Reyes in the Escobar deal. Jurrjens was hurt for most of the first half and the last part of the season, but the Cards would want him over Vizcaino? Vizcaino is still a Top 10 prospect in our system, and is under team control for 7 years. Jurrjens is about to start to become really expensive.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Infante has never posted a OPS above .775 in a full season. That isn’t bad and is better than their options right now, but Infante has only started 3 full seasons and is about to turn 30. Vizcaino has little value because we don’t know how well he will pitch after his injury. They would take JJ in a heartbeat than Vizcaino because JJ has been a very effective MLB pitcher for three years and is what 23?24? They wouldn’t consider that deal
And they just really don’t need another SP at this point. Especially when there are holes on their offense.
Wainwright
Carpenter
Garcia
Are great 1-3.
They are extending Westbrook as we speak, so there’s their 4th spot.
And Lohse was above average as a 5th starter.
They have a fine rotation as is.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Rasmus is unlikely and the rest are almost pipe dreams
The Yankees can buy the pitching they want, and they will. I doubt they get in on Werth or Crawford. They certainly won’t move anybody to shed salary.
If there was an internal fued in St. Louis, Rasmus won it—after the stuff came out, he played every day. He won’t be cheap if he is available at all. The deal would probably have to center around Prado. I agree that the Cards do not particularly need a pitcher. The Cards wouldn’t mind Infante, but he is a one-year rental, and trading Rasmus creates a big hole in center for them. They aren’t dumb enough to value Infante so high that he is the centerpiece of a Rasmus trade. Kemp is also a pipe dream, he probably isn’t available at all, and if he is, he isn’t cheap. I doubt Ellsbury is available either—-the Red Sox couldn’t find enough warm bodies to play in the OF last year (of course, this was partially because Ellsbury couldn’t go, lol).
I think
you’re reading an awful lot into a couple comments to conclude that Tony and Pujols want Rasmus gone. If they were to trade him, its not going to be to build for the future either. Tony is only coming back because he’s got premium players to make a run at a title.
And I don’t see us trading Lowe right now.
Yes, he pitched well enough in September to where other teams wouldn’t balk at the idea of a trade, but he might have also pitched well enough to have ATL FO willing to wait it out.
Also, heaven forbid Lowe’s name mentioned in trade rumors and he’s not traded. He would demand to be traded at that point, and all of ATL’s leverage would be gone.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
Cards would want to much for Rasmus, and Yanks trading always benefits them. Hince the Vasquez / Logan for Melky & Vizicano forgive the spelling. You have to remember in two seasons when Salecdo’s (SS) of future, Adorys, and Teheran are in the majors and Hudson, Lowe are gone and JJ or Hanson are traded / Not retained you are gonna be happy we didn’t give St. Louis or New york our top talent.
Lowe proved alot in Sept and rediscovering his slider is key for him, no way he is moved until after the 2011 season unless ATL tanks next year then we will dump him at the deadline to the highest bidder if he has the season we expect him to have.
OF course you have to trade when the market on a player is at it ’s highest hince the Vasquez trade. Wren has a way of doing the unexpected and trading for guys nobody thinks of.
So look out this offseason that is all I am saying I think it is not gonna be any of the above, no swish/kemp/gardner/loshe etc…. you will see Wren has only really made one bad move and that was acquiring KK from Japan.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Oct 17, 2010 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I can’t believe you would even consider the thought of trading Hanson. That’s just insanity. He’s not even to arbitration yet:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tujElf32-2d237jk3IzWLsg&output=html
He might be eligible after 2011 as a Super Two, but it’s wait and see — that depends on a lot of things. Even if he is, he’s still in arbitration. In the default (non-super 2) state of affairs, the team can control him through 2015. A cost-controlled pitcher like Hanson is worth a fortune to the Braves, and they would only trade him if the deal was an insanely good one. I don’t see it happening.
If this team wants to compete with rich teams like the Phillies and Mets for the long haul (and we’ve done well), then players like Hanson will be a big part of it.
Carrying on Bobby's Legacy!
by FrediGonzalez on Oct 18, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
With our pitching depth...
I’d consider it, but only for a premium bat like Braun, CarGo, McCutcheon, Rasmus, Choo, etc.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 18, 2010 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure
It’d have to be the right deal, obviously. He’s worth a ton because of the contract situation plus the talent level. Definitely would need to find a pitching-weak team with surplus hitting to pull it off, and the hitter would have to be cost-controlled, too. I’m drawing a blank right now, though — I’d have to go look at some rosters.
Carrying on Bobby's Legacy!
by FrediGonzalez on Oct 18, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
And in looking
you’ll find the above mentioned names.
Carlos Gonzalez of Colorado, Ryan Braun of Milwaukee, Andrew McCutcheon of Pittsburgh, Colby Rasmus of St Louis, Shin Shoo Choo of Cleveland, maybe a couple others.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 18, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
CarGo, Ethier, Crawford (I know he doesn really apply but is an example of the caliber of player
"IN THE AIR LEFT FIELD- THAT'LL DO IT!... AND IT KEEPS ON GOING; THAT IS A HOMERUN!"
"Placido Polanco? That guy’s a pussy" -Joe Simpson
you do realize that Choo has posted back to back 5 WAR seasons….is a plus defender and a very good hitter (and mportant to us he slugs around 500)…all those numbers are either close or better than ryan Braun’s and Ethier’s.
I would cross out CarGo as well, but i would trade for Rasmus…plus defensive CF who can hit 25 HR and post OPS north of 825 are kinda rare…
"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."
Dwight Schrute
HPF...
…for once, I agree with almost everything you said. The only thing I disagree with is Rasmus—-not that I think he will be cheap, or that the Cards have to move him (they don’t and probably are not inclined to move him—remember, after the blow up, all the sudden LaRussa played Rasmus every day; if there was an internal fight, Rasmus won). Still, I would give up some of our top talent for Rasmus, because, well, Rasmus is top talent. If they wanted Vizcaino, Infante, and even Kimbrel, I would do that in heartbeat. True Vizcaino could be great in the future, but he could also flame out, he is injured right now; pitching prospects have high attrition rates. Kimbrel should be a great reliever for a while, but he won’t throw more than 60 innings a year. Meanwhile, Rasmus can patrol center at the Ted for a long time.
That all being said, it is probably a pipe dream because Rasmus probably isn’t available at all. (I wonder how many fans of other teams try to put packages together for Heyward, lol.)
That disagreement aside, I agree that Gardner, Swisher, Kemp, etc. are not really realistic scenarios. It will probably be somebody unexpected. Whether he will be good or not….we’ll just have to wait and see.
Because one just takes money...
and the other takes prospects and convincing the other GMs to part with good young talent. Is it that hard to see?
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 18, 2010 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think so.
'Terrible preview...pretty weak, didn't learn anything new. pretty sad." - mastermike
by Scott Coleman on Oct 17, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Not gonna happen
Wren already said it “Werth and Crawford are gonna be expensive” so in other words you can stop worrying about them coming to ATL next season via Free agency.
We just don’t have that type of money to compete with larger market team in free agency for the top available guy.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Oct 17, 2010 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
The other thing is that Werth and Crawford are going to want long deals that are expensive. Is it wise to invest 20MM a year in someone like Werth or Crawford over 5 years? He’s 31 with WAR of 3.2 in 09 and 5.2 in 10. Crawford is 29 with a WAR of 4.4 in 09 and 4.8 in 10.
Figure each at a WAR of 4.5 for argument’s sake. Each point is worth $3.5 – 4.0 MM. A 36 year-old Jayson Werth getting $18 – $20 MM a year scares me. No way Wren is that dumb.
Carrying on Bobby's Legacy!
by FrediGonzalez on Oct 18, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I was somewhat flabbergasted when somewhere on ESPN
They mentioned worth would likely seek 7rs/$100mil. I shall cackle at whoever signs him for that.
"If you were going to make a Mount Rushmore of managers, Bobby's one of them."
-Mike Scioscia
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Oct 18, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Arbitration Raises
Prado and Jurrjens will get more than minor raises this year. Prado will get a $2-$3 million raise, and Jurrjens will get $3-$4 million.
Actually, I wouldn’t be surprised to see both around the 2.5-3M mark. Jurrjen’s injury plagued year might have hurt his arbitration argument.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
No chance that JJ gets less than $3 MM in arb. I mean, Frenchy had a season where he hit .239 with 11 HR and got $3.4 MM the next season …
"They should just give two ROYs in the NL and skip the AL this year." - KLaw
Look at how much he declared, though. There’s no way Boras would ask that much.
Then again, Boras is a surprising fella.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s at times like this that I really wish we had Elvis Andrus at SS and Neftali Feliz at closer.
"They should just give two ROYs in the NL and skip the AL this year." - KLaw
Seeeeriously
Actually, I think we are OK without Feliz, as much as I wish he was a Brave our bullpen is still nasty. But Andrus is exactly the kind of player we need to bring our offense to life. Ugh.
Andrus...
…had an OPS this year of .643. Yep. .643. He isn’t bringing any offense to life. He sure can pick it at short, however.
don’t let facts get in the way of a good argument
"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."
Dwight Schrute
I think OPS is misleading for speed players...
and that obp is much more important for them than ops.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 19, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
i think you could definately make that argument if his OPS was like 700…and I would agree with you…but when it is that low…there is nothing that can convince me that he is an offensive threat….unless he went all tim raines and stole at like a 90% clip
"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."
Dwight Schrute
I was saying it more in a general fashion...
not specific to Andrus. He’s obviously NOT an offensive threat. He can do good things offensively with his speed, especially when he’s making good contact. But he is by no means anything close to a consistent offensive weapon right now.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
my opinion...
i think hinske’s handedness will really hurt his chances of being a brave next year.
Smelky is not a good player. Noone can convince me otherwise.
You can forget about Ross coming to ATL this coming season.
According to MLBtraderumors.com via
Giants GM Brian Sabean left a “clear impression” before tonight’s game that the outfielder will be tendered a contract this offseason.
So that ends that.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Oct 17, 2010 10:52 PM EDT reply actions
Well, damn.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Best CF opt: Trade w/ Tampa.
Try and Trade:
KK, Nate mclouth, and a Marek type pitching prospect + more to Tampa
To Get B.J. Upton (ton of speed, some character issues but he needs a change of scenary)
Braves will have to eat alot of Nate’s and KK’s contracts but that is life a crappy signing and terrible trade are the reasons they are stuck with these two now and neither of them deserve to be back. I would rather have a platoon in CF with Schafer and M. Young than Mclouth next season, and I would rather have Beachy / Minor split time in the #5 starting rotation spot next season then have KK crappy ass blocking their development.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Oct 17, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s no way the Rays take on those salaries considering the financial pickle they’re already in having to consider trading Garza/Shields away for salary relief.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Why not,
They have soured on Upton, we have soured on KK and Nate. Plus I said we would have to eat a ton of the two bad contracts they both have. Also throw in Eric O in the trade as well.
KK, Mclouth, Marek, Eric O + a ton of cash considerations
for
BJ Upton + pitching prospect similar to Jesse Chavez project we got from them last offseason.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Oct 17, 2010 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, we’d be practically taking on the entire salaries of KK/McLouth.
There are larger market teams (Seattle, LAA, etc) that could take on the salaries of some of these players without us having to take them on.
Maybe unloading KK to LAA for Brandon Wood would be fair.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Well regardless we can all agree
KK and Nate need to be gone even if we have to eat most of their contracts. Hell KK and Nate to Brewers for s&^#! Corey Hart is fine with me at this point.
Frenchy 2.0 but when you trade crap for crap what do you expect. Still think Tampa would make the deal I mean money freed up by losing Crawford and if they are gonna trade away Shields/Garza they would have more cash plus we would give them cash considerations in any deal involving both players.
Any takers for CF platoon if Upton cannot be had and since C. Ross is off the table apparently ?
CF 2011 Braves : Schafer / M. Young ? any takers -
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Oct 17, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
KK + Nate for Albert Pujol’s shoelaces.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Bats and Pine tar
Oh wait to much, to much.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Oct 17, 2010 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Need to just move Tampa
Need to just move Tampa Bay, shit stadium, no fan support and they have a great young core of talent. any other city would love to have them FLA is hard to maintain any team not named Miami Heat, hell with NBA that is one pro sport I would love to go on strike for a couple of seasons.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Oct 17, 2010 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I agreed with you mostly once above, HPF...
…I guess that’s my quota for the day. This makes no sense to me.
Why would we get a decent player (Upton) for two relatively useless players?
LOL
you’re the man.
'Terrible preview...pretty weak, didn't learn anything new. pretty sad." - mastermike
by Scott Coleman on Oct 17, 2010 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
How many times do we have to go through this
The Braves will NOT trade for another nutcase. No way a trade for Upton happens
Carpe Diaz
thats the part of the trade that concerns you…not the fact that rarely do teams trade a pile of dirty laudnry for an above average CF…really?
"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."
Dwight Schrute
Holty_Panthers_Fan – Schafer isn’t going to play another game in the majors. Once you come to terms with this, you’ll be happier.
Sucks
Ross hit another homer tonight, guy is really coming into his own in San Fran could have just as easily been a brave but oh well.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Oct 17, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
this is funny to me, because about two months ago, it seemed like everyone on here was opposed to Ross coming to us. Some were very vocal about it. Did the past week really change opinions that much?
"everyone"
Ha. Ha. Ha.
'Terrible preview...pretty weak, didn't learn anything new. pretty sad." - mastermike
by Scott Coleman on Oct 18, 2010 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Tender / Non-tender
To Tender/Offer Contract:
Hinske 1 yr deal
No tender / let walk:
Saito, Anikel, Melky, Diaz, Farnsworth (was once in favor of him but his price is too high and he can opt out of his opition and never liked playing here so let him walk, plus he is starting to show his age via the fastball speed)
Trade / Release :
Nate and KK try and trade both or buy them out, time to move on from both.
Trade Bait this offseason / Needs
JJ, KK, Mclouth, Eric O
Needs:
Power hitting LF, and speedy leadoff hitter prefer one that can hold down CF such as BJ Upton from Rays, who is the best opt for ATL to find speedy leadoff man this club needs.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Oct 17, 2010 11:06 PM EDT reply actions
Oh yeah
Moylan will return and be tendered a contract just too valuable to let him walk.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Oct 17, 2010 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
KK/JJ/Lowe
KK isn’t really trade bait. Who wants a pitcher with an ERA+ of 76 who makes $7MM a year? Nobody is that dumb. He had a WAR of -1.0 this year. He had a war or 1.5 last year. He’s not getting any younger, either.
KK is a liability. Even if he can be moved, we’d still have to eat a bunch of the contract. Nobody would give anything worth anything for him. He’s not moving anywhere. I’m a little confused why you listed him under Trade/Release and Trade Bait. He’s going to be more “eat the deal” than anything. Maybe someone in a bind would take him for part of the contract next summer.
JJ is a different story. He’s under team control, he’s young, he’s been good. He’s worth something.
Lowe might even be worth something, but he’s got two years on the deal at 15 MM per year. Ugh. That’s $8.8 MM per WAR for this year. Last year was worse. Again, nobody is going to want him because of the cost. Maybe a pennant contender next summer when he’s only got 1.5 years left on the contract and maybe if the Braves pick up some of his salary for 2012 in the deal. Lowe is a serviceable player but a bad contract to own.
Carrying on Bobby's Legacy!
by FrediGonzalez on Oct 18, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
guh, this is killing me
when does the season start?
I think you offer Saito a contract...
I know i am in the minority here…but I think you offer Saito a contract. He was very effective and if Kimbrell/Venters can’t make it work as a closer Saito has done it…he we don’t need to close he quietly and effectively comes out in the 7th and 8th.
Moylan is tendered a contract.
Diaz-Maybe
Ankiel-Bye
Eric-Yes
Melky-Bye
Farnsworth-Bye
Hinske-If he can be had at a decent price…then you have to consider it.
Glaus-My first reaction is no. But could he/would he…be a backup/platton partner with Freeman. YOu have to at least think about that.
Did someone actually mention Schafer as a CF option for 2011? Mmm…he couldn’t hit AAA, AA, and barely hit A pitching. Maybe in the later 1/2 of the year…but you can’t even pencil him in anwyhere right now.
Too. Old.
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Saito
No way way to old, better younger cheaper arms in the minors; Saito has a bad back / shoulder I believe also way, way to old simple as that.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Oct 17, 2010 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Did we mention he was WAY too old?
Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Oct 17, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Just agreeing, LOL
No not just way too OLD, WAY WAY TO OLD.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Oct 17, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope
As long as teams continue to pay older vet’s decent to way above average cash for their fading once great skill set guys are gonna hang around well past their primes. It is just that simple which is why I am dying for MLB to get a damn salary cap already it is way over due.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Oct 17, 2010 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
you should
it would give an otherwise ridiculous post a sarcasm out
by kbertling353 on Oct 18, 2010 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Nah
I’m going to make a fanpost about this at some point.
I know everyone is hot to make a trade and get a big bat. But to be completely reasonable – Braves will not get Werth or Crawford. They simply will cost too much. Dunn is a dream as well, especially since his defense would be horrible.
After that, there’s nobody really out there that we can pick up. Only other option would a be a trade for a good outfielder…and I don’t really see Wren trading away JJ to do that either.
So, that leaves the Braves signing an older player at a lower rate and hoping to get one good year out of him (again). Would you rather have that or Infante in LF?
There’s a reason Omar Infante stopped hitting in September. He’s not an every day player. Teams tried to play him every day for years and he couldn’t do it. That’s why he’s a utility player and should continue to be one for us.
'Terrible preview...pretty weak, didn't learn anything new. pretty sad." - mastermike
by Scott Coleman on Oct 18, 2010 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions
he was only one of our best players because everyone else went down
he’s not close to prado, heyward, mccann, or chipper.
and that batting average is not sustainable
by kbertling353 on Oct 18, 2010 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Well duh
But he’s better than mclouth, melky, ankiel, diaz, etc.
If Braves can go out and get a Werth or a Crawford, I’ll be very happy. But, when that doesn’t happen, I want Infante starting every day over any of those guys.
My point is that if 2011 rolls around and Wren decides to go with a patchwork of platoons for the outfield again (minus Heyward), Infante should receive some serious consideration.
Or, if Chipper really won’t be able to come back, Infante should have the opportunity to be in the starting lineup somewhere in the infield.
exactly
keep infante rotating around the infield (god knows chipper will be injured constantly)
but we need a decent platoon in LF
by kbertling353 on Oct 18, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Best players huh? And what exactly did he do besides hit for a high batting average?
Look, I love me some Imhotep, but he’s a super-utlitly player.
'Terrible preview...pretty weak, didn't learn anything new. pretty sad." - mastermike
by Scott Coleman on Oct 18, 2010 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Plenty
He has a high OBP (4th best on the team last year) and a high OPS (5th best) and obviously the high average (best on the team).
Other numbers like RBIs aren’t really high for him since he was leading off and had guys like Tommy Hanson and Rick Ankiel batting for him. Still, he did drive in 50 runs which isn’t really shabby.
I know he is a super utility guy – I just think if he has the chance (like Prado) he might blossom into more and continue playing at that high level.
his OPS and OBP are completely inflated because of his batting average…if his batting average cmes down at all his other numbers suffer…offensively he is a one trick pony…and thats not a good thing to have…
"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."
Dwight Schrute
McLouth/Diaz/Matt Young clusterf—k OF combo is what I’m gunning for
by kbertling353 on Oct 18, 2010 3:02 AM EDT up reply actions
And Matt Diaz should hit leadoff
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 18, 2010 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
You can type it however you want...
…you’ll still be wrong. Infante is a great utility guy, that’s about it. When his BABIP normalizes to his normal level, he becomes a .290-.300 hitter with little power and few walks. Not starting corner OF material.
The offseason
is really fun, too. Wish the Braves were still playing, but rosterbation can be fun. I keep telling myself that, anyway.
Carrying on Bobby's Legacy!
It sure would be nice to have T. Collins/R. Lopez/Yunie/etc.
to package (maybe along with others) for a good OF bat. But hey, at least we got three shit players back.
You would think those three plus someone like Delgado would fetch us a pretty good corner OF.
I'm I the only Melky fan here?
I don’t care if he costs the Braves two wins next year. I need to see him with a tomahawk across his chest.
Valued customer of Boris' Baseball Boutique
ya we should always release players that do bad for one season and completely ignore previous years success…thats a good way to make decisions
"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."
Dwight Schrute
that’s why everyone wants to trade Nate Mclouth? Or why everyone is excited about Lowe after just one month?
I personally want to see Diaz gone. he was great in July, sucked for the rest of the season. Was that just a fluke?
by Braves Biceps on Oct 20, 2010 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions
everyone wants to trade McLouth because a lot of his stats over his career show that he wasnt as good as he was in 08…however, I don’t think that…
people are excited about Lowe’s Sep. because he has a long history of success and has really been worse since he got to the Braves…his Sept was a return to his past form (kinda, with a bit of added awesomeness).
In regards to Diaz…He was also great in 06, 07, and 09 where he posted great hitting numbers each season…so he has one bad year in the face of three very good years…and you prefer to beleive the one bad year, without offering any reason why that sample is more important than the previous sample.
"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."
Dwight Schrute

by 


























