Braves are only team left with reported interest in Damon
by gondeee on Jan 15, 2010 8:48 PM EST
in Braves Related Free Agents
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PrintEven though Mark Bowman said earlier today that he believed the Braves don't have interest in Johnny Damon, that doesn't mean that an Atlanta front office official has ruled it out. That, however, is the case for the Tigers, the other team with rumored interest in Damon:
Tigers general manager Dave Dombrowski said this afternoon through a club spokesperson, "We have not expressed interest in Johnny Damon."
A GM doesn't usually make a statement like that, even by proxy, unless they are absolutely uninterested in a player. That leaves the Braves as the only team who seems to still have interest. Of course, one must always consider the Yankees a front runner in this sweepstakes. If they are still in it, then Brian Cashman has done a great job of waiting for Damon's price to drop. But with so many well paid stars on the Yankees, would Damon really eat his pride and return there for half as much as he was making last year? That's where an opening for the Braves could appear, as Damon may take less money, but only with another team -- call it somewhat of a face saving maneuver.
I wouldn't be surprised if this saga drags out for a few more weeks, as Boras sits back and hopes that teams reassess their needs and realize that Damon fits. The Braves, I believe, will continue to play the waiting game in hopes that they can pick up an outfield upgrade for pennies on the dollar.
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He can take the .280/8/60 he’d bring to the table right on back to New York. Whoever signs him outside of New York is going to be sorely disappointed. His bat outside of New Yankee Stadium is deplorable and his arm makes Juan Pierre look like Raul Mondesi. Don’t do it Frank!
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jan 15, 2010 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
Is anyone else sick and tired of the name Johnny Damon? At this rate, I don’t care if he signs in Atlanta or Taiwan, but I am personally not writing one article about him until he signs.
Or Damon Hollins.
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jan 16, 2010 9:05 AM EST up reply actions
Hell yeah, that’s my man fity grand!
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
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Haha I figured you'd chime in on the Damon Hollins name-drop
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jan 16, 2010 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
Damon's Impact
To be honest, I don’t really want Johnny, unless we can move Melky… otherwise it wouldn’t be worthwhile. I wouldn’t sign Damon for more than $5MM though.
Our lineup could look something like this:
Johnny Damon
Martin Prado
Chipper Jones
Troy Glaus
Brian McCann
Nate McLouth
Yunel Escobar
Matt Diaz
Damon’s nothing more than a 13-15 HR hitter who can steal some bases for us. His defense isn’t spectacular and he has what every one calls a noodle arm.
Damon replaces Diaz, not Melky...
and he is not an upgrade over Diaz.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 16, 2010 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
i think the idea would be Damon replaces Diaz and Diaz replaces Melky, so its still an upgrade… Diaz would lose some ABs but he’d still have near 350-400 probably. not advocating the move tho.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
The problem is a team really needs more than one player who can provide competent defense in CF. So, Diaz can’t replace Melky.
So Damon can back up CF?...
can Diaz? If Damon blocks anyone really, it’s probably Schafer or Heyward more than Diaz or Cabrera. And I think both Schafer and Heyward are capable of doing as well as Damon offensively. And defensively, it’s not even close.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 16, 2010 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
Damon was below average defensively
in left field last year. He’s not cut out to play center field any more.
THIS
All this noise about him being an upgrade is nonsense. Matt is the guy he’d take playing time from, so let’s compare the two- neither is what you’d call a defensive stud, though Matt looks like a wizard compared to Damon. Damon’s speed is not what it used to be, and we could get those 12-15 steals out of Diaz easy. Damon’s power isn’t jack away from Coors East, Matt could easily tie or top him in that department. Average-wise they’re pretty comparable, unless Matt suddenly forgets any semblance of how to hit right-handers (he’s something like a .255 career hitter there, which isn’t abysmal per se, though he seemed to be making some improvement in that department after the ASB last year). Even if he hits somewhere from .255-.270 against RHPs, with his average against lefties and his comparable power and speed he’s still an upgrade over Damon.
Oh, and he had a career-high .390 OBP last year. If he keeps that up going forward, he’s a definite improvement over Damon. Let’s just stay the hell away from Damon.
Yes.
+1. I keep saying it, but some just don’t listen.
I don’t really see too many people commenting saying they’d love to have Damon.
by BravesRaleigh on Jan 16, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
My fear...
…is that clarity is being avoided for a reason…. this has been hinted at for way too long with way too much silence from the front office.
That said: you cannot, will not sign anybody else unless there’s a trade already completed to eliminate the “tradeable” parts. Do it the other way ‘round and you lose all leverage, since everybody knows you’d have to move players with Damon on the roster first.
I would rather just not even get involved on Damon. If we were to sign him one of Cabrera or Diaz would be gone. Offensively Damon is better than Cabrera but Damon can only play LF and isn’t that good there. Cabrera can play all 3 positions and is at least average at all 3. Diaz is to valuable of a hitter to move. Plus both cost less than Damon.
That's okay with me.
I would be open to signing Damon and then trading one of Melky or Schafer, or even both.
The only time the Mets win is in the offseason.
um
Schafer? you mean our future CENTER FIELDER
by drumzalicious on Jan 16, 2010 2:03 AM EST up reply actions
Pardon? You’re ready to give up on a former top prospect after a wrist injury ruined his rookie season?
i agree
last year Schafer was terrible and should never be given another chance. I mean a broken wrist is something anyone playing baseball should be able to deal with and still swing the bat with no problem.
by drumzalicious on Jan 16, 2010 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
There's a reason for this.
Damon is not yet signed by anyone because he hit out of a phone booth as a spankee. We can’t expect him to produce like last year. I like Diaz way too much to deal him, didn’t we just give Matty D a contract? Save the money. Give Diaz a chance to prove himself. Let the kids coming up play and prove me wrong.
You mark that frame an 8, and you're entering a world of pain.
bullshit
I mix your Melk with my cocoa puffs, Melky Melky cocoa puffs.
by VivaLosBravos on Jan 16, 2010 4:13 AM EST up reply actions
On that I agree...
…if the price does come down to a couple of million dollars, you sign him and figure out how to use the excess.
I call bullshit on your bullshit
I’m with him. If we take Damon, at any cost you care to name, he becomes a full-time LF in Bobby’s eyes. Matt is the guy who loses playing time in that deal, and Damon is not an upgrade over Diaz. Even if you got him free with a case of sunflower seeds he’s still a downgrade to this team. DO NOT WANT.
Exactly
If we get Damon, he will, without fail, take playing time away from a guy who both hits and plays defense better. And outside of Yankee Stadium, I think Diaz is a clearly superior hitter.
Right now, I see these Braves as a fringe play-off team. Making moves like adding Damon will squander away our margin for error.
For free?...
you take any quality major league player. In the least you trade their ass, let alone start him until the kids are ready and dump him, losing a free player. So I call bullshit on your bullshit calling bullshit.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 16, 2010 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
bullshit^4
If the Lowe and Soriano situations have taught us anything, it’s that you can NEVER bank on trading a player, and even if you do, bank on getting a usable return. There’s a reason Damon is still on the market, and were we to get him for free and then realize he was a detriment and try to unload him and there were no takers, then you release him for nothing, giving you a net yield of negative offensive/defensive value until you finally offload him to let someone else play. And if you pay him anything then you end up pissing that away. So again I say, no thanks.
Say No to Damon, kids.
Unusable return? Yes, I’m sure Jesse Chavez, Melky Cabrera, Mike Dunn, and Arodys Vizcaino will never be useful at all for the Braves. Ever.
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And Johnny Damon under contract for the year at $0...
no one would offer anything of value for that.
What exactly did you think I meant when I said I wouldn't take him for free?
I meant that I wouldn’t let him play in our outfield because I see him as a downgrade from our current outfield options, thereby giving the Braves negative value. He’d also be huge muddy problem in terms of organizational depth where we have two fringe ML-ready OFs in Schafer and Heyward.
And, quite frankly, I wouldn’t even want to get him signing a contract for $0 for the sole purpose of trading him because I wouldn’t want to assume that we’d get some worth out of trading him without putting him on the field. Certainly, other teams would question why exactly we’d want to trade a guy who’s making no money if we’re not letting him play, and when it’s your known that you’re shopping a player you didn’t even want, your value goes down the toilet. Odds are, the best you get is a replacement level player, and the very definition of a replacement level player is that they are readily-available talent. Meaning, there was no need to have Damon on the roster at all to accomplish this.
This might change if he plays in the field, but you’re back to my original problem with having him on the roster-if he plays in lieu of a better player, this team gets worse, and we’re not a team that has enough margin for error in making the playoffs in order to squander our chances so that we can get a bankable return for a commodity we have no interest in.
I didn’t include the Javy return. I’m excited about Vizcaino and Dunn can do no worse than Logan and is probably an improvement. But Damon is not a Javy-esque commodity and would not garner that kind of return.
Chavez- well, he’s not I’llcostya bad, but he’s marginal at best and I’ll be mildly surprised if he sticks in the pen for the whole year. Whether that temporary presence will be worth much remains to be seen, but color me pleasantly surprised if he works out well. I think a guy like him is about all you could hope for from a Damon dump; if he were worth more there would be more guys in on him now while they can bid for his services and this entire argument would be moot. I’ve always been wary of banking on being able to trade someone. Unless you’re talking a young elite, there’s always a decent chance you get left holding the bag, and not being able to move Lowe and having to dump Soriano just reinforced that belief. These were not Milton Bradley “must ship out of town due to awful presence” kind of albatross contracts- Lowe’s deal is a bit inflated, but it shouldn’t be so bad that no one would take a guy guaranteed to throw 200+ innings who will in all likelihood rebound from what was a bad finish to this year, and Soriano was one of the best relievers on the market. This is not the economy to bet on trading anyone- even someone free. If there’s not a glaring outfiled hole out there, people still won’t take Damon if he’s a downgrade toa commodity they already have, and even if they’re willing to take him off our hands there’s no guarantee they give us anything useful in return.
I just don’t like banking on trading anybody, ever, because there’s never a guarantee. Therefore if that stipulation is attached to acquiring a free agent- that is, the assumption that if he doesn’t work out you can just trade him- I say no. Despite how it played out with Lowe, we certainly didn’t take that approach up front. He was the guy, and we were prepared to lock him up and hold on to him. And if you just release Damon on a $0 contract, again, your net yield is a team hindrance for however long it takes you to release him. Lose-lose. If he were a little more coveted this would all be moot, but he’s not all that valuable at this point in his career, and with the options already on our roster there’s no reason to roll the dice on a guy like him, even if it means pulling up one of the non-Schafer/Heyward AAA guys to play temporarily.
I don’t have anything against Damon, but I hope he falls on his tail, making Boras look incapable just for half a second. I’m sick of him.
he has much bigger investments
I mix your Melk with my cocoa puffs, Melky Melky cocoa puffs.
by VivaLosBravos on Jan 16, 2010 4:13 AM EST up reply actions
Go for it.
I’m not a huge fan of Damon, but I would be open to the possibility if his price tag falls to around $5 million. He could hit leadoff, and then we could drop McLouth in the order. Also, Diaz and Hinske wouln’t have to platoon, and Heyward wouldn’t have to be rushed.
The only time the Mets win is in the offseason.
$5M is FAR too much.
For reasons discussed ad nauseum there’s really no contract you can sign him to that is attractive. Even at that 1-2M figure FW is tossing around his playing time will come at the expense of Diaz, who in all likelihood is at least a comparable and probably a better producer. If we didn’t have one of Diaz/Heyward/McLouth he’d be a fit, but with the group we have he doesn’t represent an upgrade in any capacity.
I’ve been fairly against Damon, mostly because of the price tag and the pathetic defense, I just kept imagining an expensive FUGA, only more likeable, but if the price drops enough, I say get him. He still has some offensive skills, even if he’s not the power hitter he was last year, and it would be nice to let him stabilize the top of the order and let McLouth hit lower where he would be more effective. The defense is troubling, but hey, it’s only LF; we’ve had FUGA and Diaz, and KJ out there in recent years, heck, we had Klesko on out there regularly for like 8 years. If the offense is going well enough I’ll cringe slightly less when he lobs one that barely reaches the cutoff man with his little girl arm.
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The problem with the defense is...
…not only does signing Damon mean sad defense in LF, it means Diaz plays RF and our entire OF defense is pretty pathetic.
THIS
and if Damon in the lineup means no Heyward, I don’t see him as an offensive upgrade.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 16, 2010 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
dont forget
Nate in CF. Thats an outfield full of terrible arms
by drumzalicious on Jan 16, 2010 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
It's not the cost
I wouldn’t take him for free. Adding Johnny Damon means Johnny Damon would actually spend time PLAYING. I’d much rather have Diaz and/or Heyward getting the ABs that Damon would otherwise usurp.
The reason Melky is preferable is that he adds value defensively, so he can be used situationally in order to leverage his value. Damon, at best, just gives us a left-handed version of Diaz, only older and not as good at defense. Plus, Melky is all of 25 and could potentially add power-CHONE projects next year to be something of a breakout for him.
Oh, well if CHONE projects it…
Haha, but seriously, I’m not necessarily a Damon advocate, but I’m warming a little. Still probably prefer that it didn’t happen though.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Melky doesn’t to add power to bring value, though. His defense (slightly, slightly above average in CF), and his ability to play all three positions in the outfield make him worth 1+ WAR even if his bat is below average.
Johnny Damon is coming off a year with a career-high ISO in which his home/away splits were drastic, the first year in New Yankee Stadium. His defense has always been below average and is getting worse. Regress his power just to his career average, and he’s barely adding anything. He’s not a better hitter than Diaz overall, only against right-handers-and if we’re platooning Diaz, we’ve already got Hinske, who’s at worst neutral defensively with just-as-good splits against RHP.
Add in the fact that Damon is 36 years old and has a fair chance of underperforming his career ISO, and he’s just Garrett Anderson-not adding value with the bat while seriously hurting with the glove.
If fairness
Damon walks about twice as much as FUGA, so he probably won’t ever become the complete offensive liability that Anderson was.
I didn’t like Johnny Damon the Red Sock. I hated Johnny Damon the Yankee. No one gave a leaping shit about Johnny Damon the Royal or Athletic. If it becomes “Johnny Damon the Brave” I’ll drive to Atlanta just to set one of his jerseys on fire in the Turner parking lot.
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jan 15, 2010 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
Only if...
we move Melky…only then will I be okay with that.
Moving Melky doesn't change anything.
Damon would be signed to be the starting left-fielder. Melky is the fourth OF already. Damon signing with us means Diaz or Heyward don’t play pretty much at all this year unless and injury strikes Damon. Melky is irrelevant to the discussion.
If we can get him cheap cheap...
and for like a one-year deal…why not? Stranger things have happened.
For the reasons posted above: lousy arm; his bat won’t translate to Turner field; and he’ll steal innings from better fielders… and probably better hitters.
I’ve said it before, but Esco will get winded in every game just running out to LF to let Damon hand him the ball. That’s a bad thing.
LMAO at the visual of poor winded Escobar.
Shouldn't Reid Gorecki get a shot in RF before that Heyward kid everybody talks about?
Defensively
We’d position Chipper at shortstop on the front end of the infield dirt, and Escobar in shallow left field.
Do you think if we signed Damon we could petition MLB to let us play with 10 in the field, like softball? The 4th outfielder could just play defense and not bat.
Shouldn't Reid Gorecki get a shot in RF before that Heyward kid everybody talks about?
lol
I have blasted your other posts, but I love that one.
It would solve our differing opinions on Melky’s value, that’s for certain.
Shouldn't Reid Gorecki get a shot in RF before that Heyward kid everybody talks about?
Yes!
Melky makes a great 10th fielder! (Do those guys bat?)
Well, they do in softball, but I was thinking of a whole new rule. Call it the Designated Fielder rule, and its for the NL only, since the AL gets the DH. NL teams get a 10th fielder that doesn’t get to hit. I’m starting a petition and calling Selig first thing in the morning.
Shouldn't Reid Gorecki get a shot in RF before that Heyward kid everybody talks about?
Good luck with that...
…it could make Diory useful! BTW, I responded to your FYF post in the other thread. ;)
if the braves sing damon i think the lineup should be
damon
prado
jones
glaus
mcann
mclouth
escobar
melky
the braves should trade diaz, a pitcher. to another team.
Why?
Why would we want an outfielder that looks like he is throwing with the wrong hand? Damon is not that good and he may be one of the dumbest people to ever give an interview. Have you ever heard him talk? I know that is not that important to the actual game but he is like a brick. Let MattyD play left, Nate play center, and JeyHey play left. Outfield done!
If he’s ready. I’d rather see Heyward next year than go through what the Braves put Shafer through in 09.
Besides, Diaz had his chance to be an everyday starter a few years ago and stunk. Some guys are meant to be part time players.
If that's what you think, Damon makes sense.
As I have said many places, Damon is not a Melky replacement, he is a Diaz replacement. If you don’t trust Diaz to do the job, Damon makes sense.
I think
any player would suffer like Schafer did if he had essentially broken his wrist the first week of the season.
People really need to get off saying how bad Schafer was when he was injured and while they’re at it get off of Freeman’s back to
by drumzalicious on Jan 16, 2010 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
Ugh
First off, IF we sign Damon Matt Diaz will be the one traded. Melky is the only one who could step in and play CF if McLouth needs a day off with Hinske and Infante being possible fill ins in RF unless the team carries Blanco as a 4th OF’er
In my opinion if we do decide to sign him we should wait to do any trade until we see if Heyward breaks camp as the Right Fielder, unless the team has already made the decision that he will start RF this is important for one BIG reason.
- 1. Money*
If the team is ready to give Heyward the starting job in RF then we then have the option of not trading not one but BOTH Diaz and Cabrera. Those two will make around 5.5 mil combined next year which is the most I hope we would sign Damon for. Which would then allow us to still have some wiggle room for a mid season acquisition. 4th outfielder would likely be Blanco as he is the only person kinda close that can play CF and be adequate at all the other positions.
The benefit of having Damon is he lets us push McLouth down in the lineup. Of course we can all argue that Diaz would be the better lead off option but there is no way that the team would even consider that. We all know they dont think he is a full time player much less a lead off hitter.
Batting McLouth lower in the lineup allows us to maximize his power potential and IMO should bat either right behind Escobar or between McCann and Escobar.
So am I the only person who would like to sign Damon?
I’m pretty sure I am…
Remember folks, I'm almost always wrong.
"Let Jason Heyward start the season in RF, and get the hell out of his way."
Tyreke Evans for Rookie of the Year.
Peyton Manning = Best Quarterback of all time.
At Arizona, our basketball team doesn't rebuild...we re-load.
i mean
sure, Damon’s defense wasnt very good in 2009, but you can’t honestly tell me this lineup isn’t sexy:
Damon
Prado
Chipper
Glaus
BMac
Escobar
McLouth
Diaz
It lets Jason Heyward get some NEEDED time in AAA before being called up. Remember folks, the kid is only 20 and has only played half a season above A-ball. It would be super cool if we don’t rush our potential allstar for the next 10 years. And if/when he’s ready in June, can slide right into the lineup.
Damon/Diaz
McLouth
Chipper
Glaus
BMac
Escobar
Heyward
Prado
That’s beastly.
Remember folks, I'm almost always wrong.
"Let Jason Heyward start the season in RF, and get the hell out of his way."
Tyreke Evans for Rookie of the Year.
Peyton Manning = Best Quarterback of all time.
At Arizona, our basketball team doesn't rebuild...we re-load.
by Scott Coleman on Jan 16, 2010 2:45 AM EST up reply actions
except
i believe the second lineup would look like
Damon
Prado
Chip
Glaus
McCann
McLouth
Escobar
Heyward
With McLouth and Escobar being interchangeable by pitching matchup
by drumzalicious on Jan 16, 2010 3:26 AM EST up reply actions
but you can’t honestly tell me this lineup isn’t sexy
I don’t know, what do you think Damon is going to do with the bat next season if he’s playing half his games at the Ted instead of Yankee stadium? My guess would be something around .360 OBP with a .430 SLG or so …
That’s not horrible, or something that’s going to damage the team as FUGA/Failcoeur did, or anything, but it doesn’t exactly have me salivating either, especially once you consider his age, defense, likely price tag, and the fact that we’ve got Schafer and Heyward both trying to win a spot in the ML OF.
i think
the fact that we have McLouth lower in the lineup is what makes it so good.
by drumzalicious on Jan 16, 2010 3:52 AM EST up reply actions
in a nutshell
general assumption is that he will have guys with very high OBP in front of him giving him an opportunity to knock them in with the power he has.
by drumzalicious on Jan 16, 2010 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
What? You mean Jason Heyward might not be immediately ready right this minute? But he was so good in AA…
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Schafer is in the discussion as well cb...
say he looks back to 100% in spring. Last year, spring training was good enough to win CF. You can still develop Heyward in AAA and go with McLouth/Schafer/Diaz, and Cabrera filtered in. Combined cost, around $10m total. If Schafer does well, you can deal McLouth for the best available package in July and let Heyward slide into RF shifting Diaz to LF with Cabrera still backing up the 3. If Schafer struggles, he can go to Gwinnett with Heyward coming up and sliding McLouth to CF and Diaz to LF.
If neither Schafer or Heyward look good enough this spring, I guess we’re starting Diaz, McLouth, and Cabrera in some form left to right and looking at Blanco, or Mitch Jones, or Brandon Jones if he doesn’t get picked up by KC, maybe Matt Young in the 4th OF role if we don’t find another veteran willing to sign for cheap as we get closer to spring training.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 16, 2010 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Do you know
if Schafer has started baseball activites?
by bravesforever16 on Jan 16, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
At this point I’ve become less sure about any predictions about Heyward, but I will guarantee that barring some injury to McLouth or Cabrera, Schafer will start the year in AAA.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Really?...
how much difference is there between now and 12 months ago? And I still think with those two waiting so closely in the wings, anything other than extremely cheap (meaning cheaper than we can get Damon without offering more) is just not worth it. We’ve got a major league caliber OF for the full season, and we aren’t spending more than $12m for it total. Why waste money for what’s likely no better production?
by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 16, 2010 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
Meaning,...
Schafer 12 months ago, off of some AA and a suspension. How is that much different from now, there’s an OF job open in the spring, and I’d assume he can win it in the spring same as he had to do last year vs. Blanco and Anderson.
by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 16, 2010 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
Because not playing in games from April to June when you’re fully healthy is completely different than not playing in games from July to September because of a severe wrist injury. At the end of 08 he was healthy and his numbers were trending upward. He was also able to play in the Mexican Winter League and not only make up the games he missed early in the year but play against much better competition than he would have seen at AA.
The last time Schafer played was July 3rd for Gwinnett, and that was the last in a string of 5 games he played at that point in the year. Before that he played 3 games in early June for Gwinnett immediately following his demotion from Atlanta. So from June 6th until the end of the year he only played in 5 games, and none after July 3rd.
This isn’t a player who is coming off of good work at AA and a fine learning experience in Mexico, this is a player who did not play for most of the last season and who needs regular, lower pressure at bats to get himself back into prime shape to compete at the major league level. The two situations could not be more disparate.
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Fair enough...
I’ll still say that going into spring training with the roster as it stands right now means we have a spot for one OF, be it as a starter or the 4th OF. Maybe the FO is willing to go into the year with Infante and Hinske able to slide into a spot, along Melky’s versatility, and that will suffice as the back up OF. But he’s on the 40 man roster, and the team likely has someone other than Infante, Hinske, Conrad, and Thurston with Ross on the bench. I’d assume they’d want a true OF. Who else is in the mix right now for that spot? Guys like Infante and Hinske who aren’t true OF such as Mitch Jones and Brooks Conrad? Or barring a cheap veteran added, is that spot up for grabs between the trio of Blanco, Schafer, and Heyward (maybe B Jones and Matt Young too)?
Just want to correct one point; Mitch Jones is very much a true outfielder. Right field has been his main position for his career, he’s played plenty of left field and learned how to play first base as a pro.
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thanks cb, I was thinking of him as a 1B originally
if he is solid defensively, that makes him much more palatable as a 4th OF, with Melky able to slide to CF and both Hinske and Infante able to fill in as well.
I didn't realize that either.
That does make him a more palatable fourth/fifth OF (fifth if we consider Hinske as fourth and the kids start on the farm).
i believe so
I’m not even sure we see him get that much action in Spring Training.
by drumzalicious on Jan 16, 2010 11:57 PM EST up reply actions
that
would be a nice scenario of Schafer starting so they could deal McLouth. If Heyward starts we’re looking at next offseason before the team would deal McLouth and i want him gone by June.
Also I would hope the team would make the OF Diaz/McLouth/Schafer. Although Schafer is the better CF his arm and range would benefit us more in RF than in CF.
by drumzalicious on Jan 16, 2010 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
You’re not alone. It would be foolish not to take Damon on a 1-year deal if we could. We could end up saving a lot of money on Heyward if he stays down until June…and we would allow him some more time to destroy AAA pitching. Couldn’t hurt. The only problem is we don’t seem to have the money. This whole argument is probably for naught.
mvshbball....
….the problem is that the reality is Damon won’t platoon. It means after two months, Diaz is gone or rides the pine.
has Johnny said that publicly? I know he wouldn’t wanna platoon, but he would still play a majority of the games.
And what if Jason Heyward struggles?
Remember folks, I'm almost always wrong.
"Let Jason Heyward start the season in RF, and get the hell out of his way."
Tyreke Evans for Rookie of the Year.
Peyton Manning = Best Quarterback of all time.
At Arizona, our basketball team doesn't rebuild...we re-load.
by Scott Coleman on Jan 16, 2010 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
If Heyward struggles. Heyward struggles...
…at some point, we have to bring him up and let him play, whether it is at the start of 2010, in June, or in 2011. He has massive upside, but yes, could struggle. On the other hand, he makes us far better defensively than signing Damon does already. (Lets Diaz go to left and Heyward is a plus-plus defensive right-fielder, while Diaz in right is really bad and Damon in left is pretty ugly, too.) As I noted in an earlier post, if you bring in someone like Damon who would essentially block Heyward because Heyward might struggle, then what do we do for 2011? Again, Heyward would be untested, so we would have to bring in another veteran who blocks him just in case that happens. And so on and so on….
As for Damon not signing to platoon—-hell, if he would sign for a few million to platoon that would be great and I have no problem with that. I just can’t imagine that would happen. If his price fell that far, he’d sign somewhere else to play full time. Someone would want him for a fulltime role, if only the Yankees, if his price fell far enough.
Damon
If we did sign Damon , we’d probably get more triples at Turner field with it being a bigger field . I can see Damon hitting it down right field line or right center and getting triples . His speed would make up for his defensive play . But if we could get Nady i’d take him but Yankees are said to be interested in him .
Byrnes
why not? he’s going to be cheaper than Damon and will probably give you the same production. Plus, he just got released by the Diamondbacks.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jan 16, 2010 7:29 AM EST reply actions
He was DFAed and is subject to being traded for another 8 or 9 days. If there’s no trade, then he could be released.
My question is if they release him, aren’t the D’backs still responsible for the $11M he’s owed this season? And if so, does that mean the Braves (or whomever) could – in theory – sign for the ML minimum?
Yes
The D’backs would be on the hook for Byrnes salary minus who ever else pays/signs him for this year. 11M – ML minimun = D’backs 10’ salary pay;ML minimum= New team that signs him 10’ salary
Same Production?
Since 2003, Byrnes has had an OBP over .340 twice. Damon’s has been over .350 every year except for one.
by bravesfan91 on Jan 16, 2010 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
.and he's been hurt a lot.
ESPN fantasy report: “He is trying to recover from injuries to both hamstrings, including a torn left one. It’s always wise to be wary of a 33-year-old with past leg issues whose speed is one of his main assets, but Byrnes may still have 20/20 potential given enough playing time.”
He peaked at160 games in 2007 (the career year that got him that fat contract), but 52 in 2008, 84 in 2009. Hits .280-ish when completely healthy with decent pop, but you just don’t know whether he can stay on the field — which is why I didn’t suggest him…. BUT, at the ML minimum, it would be worth somebody’s effort to find out. For the Braves? Why do that if you have to move somebody else to get him playing time? — And that’s my problem with Damon: not a significant upgrade over other choices already on the roster.
One of the more inane things I’ve read on here all offseason, which is saying something.
I could produce more in the outfield than Byrnes.
haha same here
plus, have you seen Byrnes play? He makes you wanna hit a baby with his goofy ass swing and fielding.
Remember folks, I'm almost always wrong.
"Let Jason Heyward start the season in RF, and get the hell out of his way."
Tyreke Evans for Rookie of the Year.
Peyton Manning = Best Quarterback of all time.
At Arizona, our basketball team doesn't rebuild...we re-load.
by Scott Coleman on Jan 16, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
really?
i highly doubt that.
that’s one of the more inane things i’ve read EVER.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jan 17, 2010 3:13 AM EST up reply actions
Not really
bigjoe would probably post FYF-like numbers, until the inevitable Milton Bradley moment caused him to be kicked off the team.
Shouldn't Reid Gorecki get a shot in RF before that Heyward kid everybody talks about?
A couple thoughts on Damon...
1) It was mentioned that it was unusual for the Tiger’s GM to come out say so clearly that they had not expressed any interest in Damon. The reason why?-Boras. I think that teams get tired of his “mystery shopper” routine that he uses to drive up the price of a player. By Dombrowski coming out and saying that he is not interested in makes it that much harder for Boras to creat pressure for other interested teams. Damon is only going to get paid what the market deems him worthy…if he only gets one offer…then that is the market rate.
2) I am all about getting another bat in the OF. However, Damon isn’t really an impact bat at this point in his career. I think you have to keep in mind that his offense and that of Melky will probably look very similiar away from Yankees Stadium. I am also confused….if you are the Braves front office…you are either going to give Jason every chance to make the team…or you are not. If you are…then you can’t go out and get Damon. He would be a one year member of the team and would offer very little upside…..and we would have to trade our only other CF option in Melky or our best pinch hitter and decent LF option in Diaz.. If you are not certain that you are starting Jason in RF then they should go after a definite upgrade. I just don’t think that Damon is that upgrade.
If we are certain that Heyward will be starting in RF...
…for at least the majority of the season (either from the start or in June) or even think that is likely, we would need an upgrade on Diaz to get an upgrade. Given our budgetary constraints, I just don’t see that happening. None of the remaining free agents seem to be an upgrade and guys we can afford (i.e. cheap ones) who are better than Diaz don’t get traded unless we give up something good in return.
right now we have...
Jason in RF and a platoon type scenario in LF.
Or worse case….diaz/hinske in LF w Melky in RF.
Can we Win with the worse case…yes…but a better bat in RF would be great if heyward does not make it this year.
Also…when we look at roster we are counting hinke as of depth…which he is…but he really is corner depth.
If we signed Damon and heyward stuck…it could still work:
LF: DAMON/DIAZ
CF: MCLOUTH
RF: JASON
3B: CHOPPER
SS: ESCOBAR
2B: PRADO
1B: GLAUS
C:MCCANN
BENCH:
INFANTE: SUPER UTILITY
CAbrerra: of
HINSKE: CORNER IF/OF
ROSS: C
DIAZ/DAMON: OF
THAT LEAVES 12 SPOTS FOR PITCHERS…SO WHY WOULD WE HAVE TO MAKE A TRADE?
by calbers on Jan 16, 2010 4:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm Confused
Damon is an upgrade. Pure and simple.
Most who don’t want him on the roster are making two massive assumptions:
1) That the Braves are overvaluing him. Can you tell me one person who doesn’t recognize that Damon is in the twilight of his career? That he’s probably not as fast or covers as much ground as he used to? Fact is, he’s still a very capable top of the lineup hitter and can still hit.
2) Jason Heyward will be ready. I am of the opinion that Heyward could stand more time in AAA. If he tears up AAA, he will force the Brave’s hand to make a move. I simply don’t see why we would put Heyward in the starting lineup when we saw first hand what bringing up a young outfielder too early can do.
Look, is Damon an answer to prayers? No. Can the guy still play baseball and contribute? Yes. Is he worth the effort if the Braves can get him far below his asking price? You bet. Our outfield has been woefully inadequate for a number of years now. If the price is right, add him.
For the price to be right, it has to be low.
Given Damon’s poor defense and being in the decline phase of his career, he isn’t that much of an upgrade, especially since he moves Diaz to right where he is worse than he is in left. If the price gets low enough, sure, but I doubt it will, the Yankees will step in before then (or someone else will). If we are talking $5 million, that kills our flexibility to handle injuries or poor performance in the infield or with the pitching staff because it will max out our budget (or bust it).
As for Heyward...
…He will be ready when he is ready. It could be opening day, it could be June, it could be 2011. However, the guys who are other options—-Melky, Diaz, Damon, etc., are nowhere near good enough to affect how we handle Heyward. If he tears up spring and is ready, bring him up. If he needs time in AAA, let him have it, and bring him up when he tears it up. Heyward is too much of a talent to rush or to block. I assume we are smart enough to realize that.
If Jason Heyward isn't ready
Then Damon doesn’t solve our problems in right field with his noodle arm.
dear God no
Damon in Right Field would mean we would have to have a MASSIVE season by EVERYONE in our offense to make up those runs.
Heck if I were the pitchers on the team i would boycott
by drumzalicious on Jan 17, 2010 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
this
nor with his mediocre bat for a RF
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jan 17, 2010 3:14 AM EST up reply actions
If Heyward isn’t ready, we have no solution in RF plain and simple.
People are very concerned with Damon’s defense. I realize that is trendy to talk about because of the statistical evaluations that allows us to examine a players defense. However, in the end, you play Blauser over Belliard. Defense doesn’t hit and the Braves need hitters.
That's backwards thinking.
You need to consider both offense and defense in deciding who to play. You play Blauser over Belliard because Belliard’s offense is so much worse that his defense does not make up for it. Damon is a tricky problem defensively because he hurts us defensively at two positions—-left, where he plays, and right where he would push Diaz, who is much better in left than in right. To evaluate who is best to play, you have to consider both offense and defense. Whether it is trendy or not, it is the best way to consider things. Does it help if we sign Damon and two months into the season everyone is hitting but we still aren’t doing well because the pitchers aren’t performing despite putting up their normal peripherals due to poor defense?
I simply don’t think Damon is "that’ terrible in the outfield. Besides, this is still the Braves outfield we are comparing him to. This is the unit that has been just about dead last in nearly every offensive category for the past two seasons. Any increase in output is a good increase in output.
Chipper Jones has started to fall off defensively and, at least last year, started to slow down offensively too. However, a mediocre Chipper Jones is still a pretty good option, as is a mediocre Damon. At least, that is my opinion.
That's a reasonable thought...
…if you think that Damon is a hitting upgrade over Diaz, who is the guy he would replace, at least for most of the season. What I called backwards thinking was your refusal to consider defense because you deemed it “trendy.”
Blauser over Belliard? Goodness, those are some awful offensive options. Personally, I would have played Belliard because at least his defense was phenomena. In fact, the one World Series the Braves won was when Blauser was hurt and Belliard was at SS.
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if we sign damon, will yankees fans start looking at us like we look at the royals?
that would give us at least 3 former yanks on the roster…i didnt actually check to see if there are others
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
If we somehow ended up with Damon, the best idea would be to platoon him with Diaz in left. Damon had an .889 OPS versus righties last year, and I think we all know what Diaz does against lefties. With both of them combined, they would put up Matt Holliday type numbers.
Of course, Bobby probably would never do this.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Jan 17, 2010 2:17 PM EST reply actions
I really doubt that...
…Damon would sign to be a platoon player. And given his numbers last year, someone will sign him to play every day.
Oh I completely agree
I’m just saying that if we got him and didn’t have any restrictions, it would be pretty sweet to platoon him
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Jan 18, 2010 1:10 AM EST up reply actions
Damon may not have a choice.
There’ve been a couple players in recent years who’ve let their egos lead them into exactly zero contract offers. Damon doesn’t seem like that kinda guy.
No he doesn't...
…because if the price drops into our range someone will pay him to start somewhere. And he’ll take that over a platoon offer. If someone’s ego leads them to zero contract offers it will be Ankiel’s insistence on playing time.
IMHO, Boras not Braves is the only one showing any interest in Damon.
Boras is just trying to keep Damon’s name out there, hoping to get a bite.
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