The Anti-McGwires

by gondeee on Jan 11, 2010 7:00 PM EST

Chicks may dig the long ball, but the Hall of Fame doesn't dig cheaters (hat tip: hippybustins).

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Hahahah

I just posted this on the other Maddux to the Cubs thread. Gotta love Mad Dog.

Remember folks, I'm almost always wrong.
"Let Jason Heyward start the season in RF, and get the hell out of his way."

by Scott Coleman on Jan 11, 2010 7:02 PM EST reply actions

Haha, Glavine made me LOL at the end of the clip. Those guys were awesome.

by bbxxj on Jan 11, 2010 11:47 PM EST up reply actions

Greatest Commercial Eva'

Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.

I Corinthians 9:24

by Southern Dawg on Jan 12, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions

That was a great video.

by rcates on Jan 11, 2010 7:16 PM EST reply actions

In my eyes, using steroids is cheating. McGuire is getting no love from the HOF voters, but his name is on the ballot. How many games were affected by steroids? Thousands. How many records were broken by steroid users? How many pitchers stats are skewed from pitching to steroid users? Who would have won the Cy Young awards if Clemons was clean? All those questions make me wonder who is in the Hall that shouldn’t be, and who’s out, that should be in. Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose never got on the Hall of Fame ballot. As far as I know, their gambling issues NEVER affected a game. The steroid-proven players should be banned.

by bighop on Jan 11, 2010 7:24 PM EST reply actions

HansonManCrush

by HansonManCrush on Jan 11, 2010 9:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions

I like the idea of banning players who used steroids but if you say that then no one else will come out and say they used steroids.

by jack dein on Jan 11, 2010 10:14 PM EST up reply actions

True

but a lot fewer players would start using in the first place which to me is more important that what retired players admit using.

by Skyagusta on Jan 12, 2010 11:07 AM EST up reply actions

the morality spiel...

in a game full of amoral assholes, seems pretty hypocritical to me.

by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 12, 2010 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

This.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

by MichaelProcton on Jan 15, 2010 2:32 AM EST up reply actions

+1000

Pete Rose should DEFINITELY be in the Hall of Fame. He put up all of his numbers through his own hard work and talent – without cheating. Who cares if he bet on baseball?

Players should go into the Hall for what they did on the playing field, regardless of their moral decisions off the field. I mean,Ty Cobb beat up a handicapped man and freaking stabbed somebody and he made it in just fine.

"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."

by alligatorimpersonator on Jan 11, 2010 11:03 PM EST up reply actions

Hell, Cap Anson was the primary reason we had the color barrier

And he’s been in the HOF longer than most of us (maybe not Rhyno) have been alive.

"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"

by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jan 12, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions

It will be interesting when a Hall of Fame ballet player kills someone 4 years after retiring. Should we put a person like this on a pedestal? I realize it would have happened after the player’s career but it would be prior to the Hall of Fame vote, and clearly this would have nothing to do with baseball.

Where do we draw the line? Extreme example but I would not be surprised that something like this comes up at some point. After all, look at the NBA… What a bunch of thugs. You would have to think at least one baseball player is a potential killer. We’ve heard all kinds of crimes that former baseball players have committed—what about killing?

If you ask me, I think the Hall of Fame framers should have defined specific rules on eligibility. Maybe they wanted to leave it up to debate but you know, there are rules for everything. Why not the Hall? But I don’t know, maybe there were too many “criminals” back then that they had to leave it open!

But I think nowadays, it is perfectly appropriate to make rules.

-----
Braves Fan Since 1982. Go Braves!
"All opinions welcome..."

by proeye on Jan 12, 2010 1:52 PM EST up reply actions

So baseball writers are the morality police?

considering their own kind, isn’t that hypocritical?

by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 12, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions

Pete Rose used greenies

We know they had an effect on a player’s performance. So I assume you’re also in favor of banning Pete Rose because of his use of greenies.

by lunatic96 on Jan 12, 2010 2:41 AM EST up reply actions

Huh. I didn’t know that he had admitted to using them…then yes, I would be in favor of banning Pete Rose based on his use of greenies.

"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."

by alligatorimpersonator on Jan 12, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions

How about Mike Schmidt? Does he get removed?...

He has publically said how he will welcome any of the “steroid” guys with open arms, because while it’s not the same, he used chemicals in the form of amphetamines to improve his production.

by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 12, 2010 10:54 AM EST up reply actions

Greenies are a little much

When they were banned, players found other ways to get their energy boosts. Paul Konerko was once reported to drinking upwards of 5-6 cups of coffee prior to a game. The Cubs once told Carlos Zambrano to lay off the coffee. In the Braves bullpen clubhouse, and I would fathom other squads’ as well, there’s a fridge full of Red Bull and other energy drinks. Greenies may be banned, but the effects sure aren’t – players are just finding other means of getting them.

It’s already absurd that Rose is barred from the HOF for all of the above mentioned reasons; I don’t see any reason to hold the equivalent of caffeine-highs against him in addition. Hopefully the next commissioner won’t have his head up his ass and actually allow Pete Rose into the hall.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Jan 12, 2010 11:08 AM EST up reply actions

But it's not "natural" roy...

not quite steroids, but of the same vein that players are having “unnatural” help, and lying on that ol’ slippery slope.

I like the idea of “I only used to get healthy” too. Whether you used it to stay healthier than you would have been, or to make yourself a better player, you still were doing something you otherwise couldn’t without the drugs, and are taking a valuable roster spot from some guy that was doing it “the right way” (whatever that means).

by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 12, 2010 11:26 AM EST up reply actions

I guess my thinking of greenies is that it was made illegal in 1970, and Rose kept using it. Coffee and energy drinks are legal substances, but if they have virtually the same effect as greenies, then I think what Rose did is okay to be let in the Hall. Does anyone know the effect of greenies?

"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."

by alligatorimpersonator on Jan 12, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions

In all fairness

It’s questionable whether or not he was involved or not, but it’s alleged that Shoeless Joe was a part of the deliberate throwing of the 1919 series, which would be a direct affecting of a series of games.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Jan 12, 2010 11:12 AM EST up reply actions

He certainly didn’t play like he was involved.

by John Holton on Jan 12, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions

Stats for 1919 WS

"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson

by 10-4 on Jan 12, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions

I’m pretty sure Shoeless Joe and the rest were acquitted in a court of law of throwing the Series but were banned anyway.

by Skyagusta on Jan 12, 2010 6:25 PM EST up reply actions

Truly, I know what you are getting at but… Shoeless Joe’s supposed gambling never affected the game? Didn’t the accused 8 throw the World Series? And what about Pete? Did he bet on baseball or not? I’m not sure if we will ever know because we only know what he tells us.

So we already know that gambling is 100% forbidden in baseball and that issue was pretty much cleaned up decades ago. Now we know that steroids are banned from baseball and players are severely punished if they cheat. From when the new rules when into affect forward, we can be assured that guys are probably not cheating. Can’t account for certain PEDs like growth hormone but I don’t see anyone with McGwire-like stats right now.

Steroids in the Hall? I don’t know that anyone is in the Hall of Fame now who took steroids but I would say it’s extremely unlikely given that it seems to have started around 1993 which puts most steroid guys on the ballet about right now.

Do we need a ban? I don’t think a “ban” from the Hall is necessary. I think the writers are intelligent enough to know who was a user and who wasn’t.

It will be interesting to see what happens when Barry Bonds becomes eligible won’t it? Everyone knows that he could have made the Hall on his own merits without any supposed steroids, but what will happen if he is elected? There will be a lot of writers who say he should be in because he would have made it without steroids, there will be others who say that you can’t ignore the stats regardless of what he did, and others will say, “no way, not in a million years”. But what if he makes it? What will happen to the mystique of the Hall?

-----
Braves Fan Since 1982. Go Braves!
"All opinions welcome..."

by proeye on Jan 12, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions

And the guys who got away with it should just get to ride off into the sunset?

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

by MichaelProcton on Jan 15, 2010 2:32 AM EST up reply actions

Given that McGwire is now providing ample cover, this would be a great time for the cheaters of the past to come out of their needle-infested closets and own up. For the good of the game.

by carpengui on Jan 11, 2010 7:43 PM EST reply actions

I think I'm in the minority

But I think he deserves to be in the Hall, along with Bonds and Clemens. No one can really account for how much steroids helped them and how much of an advantage they really had over players who didn’t use them. A lot of these guys were injury prone, especially toward the ends of their careers, which might also be because of steroids (so maybe if they’d managed to play all their games without ‘roids, they’d be about where they are anyway). They even played against other players who used PEDs. Until someone can definitively say who did and who didn’t juice, I don’t see how we can fairly or accurately blackball anyone from the Hall of Fame.

Players in the 70’s were all on uppers. Gaylord Perry and Whitey Ford are in the Hall despite being known for doctoring balls. Banning players for one form of cheating but not another is completely unfair, especially when, in many cases, it’s only suspected. And yes, Rose should be in there too.

by FineHamAbounds on Jan 12, 2010 12:13 AM EST reply actions 1 recs

All. of. this.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

by MichaelProcton on Jan 15, 2010 2:41 AM EST up reply actions

Holy Smokes.

It’s hard not to feel sentimental when you see stuff like that

"Dum spiro spero"

by Bravely going forward on Jan 12, 2010 12:39 AM EST reply actions

It really, really is...

Everybody had a “Chicks Dig the Longball” shirt in middle school.

"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"

by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jan 12, 2010 12:55 AM EST up reply actions

Middle school?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Damn, I was 2 years out of college in 1998. Thanks for making me feel older than dirt.

Shouldn't Reid Gorecki get a shot in RF before that Heyward kid everybody talks about?

by Rhyno18 on Jan 12, 2010 6:29 AM EST up reply actions

Oh shut up

So you were in diapers when I graduated college. Thanks for making me feel older than the rocks under the dirt!

by carpengui on Jan 12, 2010 11:23 AM EST up reply actions

All of a sudden

I feel young. Thanks!

by Lizziebeth on Jan 12, 2010 5:26 PM EST up reply actions

Steroids aside, McGwire's merit is debatable

McGriff, Baines and Rains each have a poor shot and induction and a resume more hall- worthy than McGwire’s.

I mix your Melk with my cocoa puffs, Melky Melky cocoa puffs.

by VivaLosBravos on Jan 12, 2010 1:41 AM EST reply actions

steriods and other drugs

Every ball player including some of our own has used some form of performance enhancing drug How come Chipper hasnt match that great year that he hit all those homers. Every team has had players used PED maybe not steriods but some form to help them recover quicker from injurys or to help there body recover for a full season . I’d rather see my favorite players play 162 games using something to to help them play thewhole season then only play 110 games or 120 .

by ~~banditwolf~~ on Jan 12, 2010 2:42 AM EST reply actions

steriod era

This sentiment highlights the damage that steroid use has had on the game. All of the sudden, if a player had a career year in the midst of the steroid era, then they are assumed to have taken steroids. Of course, that puts Chipper’s ‘99 season into question. Whether that is fair or not, that is part of reality. How else? Javy’s ‘03 season? Andruw’s ’05 season?

by hollerin' brave on Jan 12, 2010 8:49 AM EST up reply actions

Sad but true...

type in any player in the Google search bar – the suggestions that come up for the search will always include the word steroids.

"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."

by alligatorimpersonator on Jan 12, 2010 10:52 AM EST up reply actions

I've long wondered about Javy's '03 season more than pretty much any individual Braves season.

He was always pretty much ripped, but his muscles had muscles that season.

"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"

by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jan 12, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions

haha same here

As much as I love Javy, I think he definitely did roids in ’03. I mean, he set the single season home run record for a catcher that year.

Of course, when it comes to steroids, I’m the crazy guy screaming “WITCH!” at everyone.

"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."

by alligatorimpersonator on Jan 12, 2010 1:00 PM EST up reply actions

Well, I'm the guy behind you with the pitchfork yelling "Burn them!"

"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"

by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jan 12, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions

haha

of course, then there are those players that I wish would take steroids, like FUGA last year.

"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."

by alligatorimpersonator on Jan 12, 2010 5:51 PM EST up reply actions

I don't know if he could afford the quantity necessary to make that project a success.

"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"

by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jan 12, 2010 10:42 PM EST up reply actions

Maybe because it was his career year? Being a cheating juicer won’t guarantee you playing 162 games. It also leads to other health problems. If a player needs to cheat to be good or stay on the field than they should hang them up. Not to mention they’re against the law. Mac is such a gutless coward. I can’t believe that STL hired him to be the hitting coach. He was a hack. What next? That creep Canseco as an outfield instructor.

He doesn’t deserve the HOF by a long shot. He was a one demensional player. That one demiosnon was greatly aided by juicing.

by FitzFan on Jan 12, 2010 4:41 AM EST reply actions

That was Heather Locklear, wasn't it?

Schwiiing.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Jan 12, 2010 9:44 AM EST reply actions

Indeed.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

by MichaelProcton on Jan 15, 2010 2:42 AM EST up reply actions

I am kind of on the fence with this one. Everyone will fudge the rules a little to get an edge. As has been noted there have been cheats through out time. Some have gotten in others haven’t.
I hate Barry Bonds as a person, but he deserves to be in the hall when his time comes because he was a great player before he started using. Mark McGuire hit 49 home runs as a skinny rookie. So his numbers would have been up there with or without roids.
As a long time Braves fan [ since 1960] I wanted Hank Aarons home run record to last forever. We see what happened. Do peds help performance? No doubt about it! How much do they help? No one knows. What has been proved is peds will over time break down and distroy your body, thus shortening your career. The fans are the final judge. In my mind Aaron stands head and shoulders above Bonds. You be your own judge.

by one woody on Jan 12, 2010 11:39 AM EST reply actions

I think in most people’s mind, the Hammer is still the true home run king. It sucks for bonds, cuz his numbers were so good before steroids and everything that it’s possible he could’ve broke the record fair and square.

"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."

by alligatorimpersonator on Jan 12, 2010 1:02 PM EST up reply actions

I think they should redo the commercial and have a part where they give each other shots.

"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson

by 10-4 on Jan 12, 2010 1:13 PM EST reply actions

Frankly, I'm sick of players apologizing to anyone...

…because they shouldn’t have to. They aren’t sorry for what they did. They’re sorry for getting caught. They damn well knew what they were putting in their bodies.

I wish more of the guys were like Canseco. Just come out and say “You’re damn skippy I took steroids/HGH/whatever because everybody else was doing it and I had my livelihood at stake.”

I’m tired of players insulting my intelligence with these half-hearted apologies when we all know they have no reason to be sorry. They were merely doing what they had to do to keep up with the game at the time.

http://hobnailboot.wordpress.com/

by AuditDawg on Jan 12, 2010 1:20 PM EST reply actions