Game 134 Recap: Braves 3, Marlins 8, Bobby Cox 0-good-moves
To sum up this game I'm going to ask you to manage at home. Who would you have brought in to relieve Tommy Hanson in the sixth inning? Would it be the guy who hadn't worked in five days, Buddy Carlyle? No. Would it be the well-rested rookie closer who was just called up, Luis Valdez? No. Would it be a lefty reliever who hasn't been used in over a week, Boone Logan? No. The guy Bobby Cox chose to bring in is the same guy who gave up the lead yesterday. The same guy who would be working on his third consecutive day for the first time all year, Kris Medlen. And what did he do? He came in, walked the first guy, then got hit all over the field. Oh, and if you're managing at home, make sure you don't pull Medlen out of the game until he surrenders the lead in the second consecutive game.
Let's keep going with this, shall we. Who would you bring in to relieve Medlen? Any of the above, well rested guys? No. If you said the guy who would be working in his fourth consecutive game, then you're thinking like Bobby Cox. Throw in a couple errors, one each by Matt Diaz and Chipper Jones, and you've got yourself a game in which you had a two-run lead, to a game where you're down by four runs.
In what world is Bobby Cox thinking he can use and abuse these relievers day after day after day (and in Moylan's case, after day)? Maybe we need more bodies down there in the pen, or maybe we need to use the fresh arms when they're fresh. That sixth inning should have had Buddy Carlyle on the mound or Luis Valdez. You could tell that Joe and Boog were beating around the bush trying to criticize Bobby's decision to go with Medlen, without really coming out and openly criticizing him. Maybe Bobby was upset with himself as much as he was with the homeplate umpire when he got himself tossed in the 8th. If Bobby was so worried about the zone, why didn't he get himself run earlier in the game when it might have done some good?
Bad game. Really leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
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I've said this a few times this year ...
but again we aren’t making the playoffs and Bobby needs to go. His time has passed and we need a new manager for a new era.
by taney71 on Sep 3, 2009 10:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
its officially time
for bobby to go.
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
by mvhsbball on Sep 3, 2009 11:05 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
What the hell was that about? Really, Medlen???? I knew it was a train wreck before his first pitch, yet I couldn’t turn my head.
I’m utterly speechless. We’ve all witness the poor management decisions game after game…and it’s been worse lately. I think I’m officially at the point in thinking this team has no shot at the playoffs.
And poor Medlen, he’s just doing his job and the manager just abuses him.
by Sparhawk on Sep 3, 2009 11:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well Said Gondeee
BOBBY COX!!!!!!!!!!
What is up with Bobby Cox? Sometimes I wonder if he really wants to win games. He brings in Kris Medlen again after he gave up 5 runs last night (3 inherited runs). He over uses these guys. We have more than 4 guys (moylan, gonzo, soriano, and medlen whom he has used a lot of lately) in the bullpen. We have Carlyle, O’flaherty, Logan, and Valdez. He did use 3 of these guys tonight, but that was after he brought Medlen in to get the night started for the Marlins. The defense didn’t help out either, but his managing these past two games has been terrible. I’m still pissed about the Greg Norton call to the plate with runners on first and third with one out. Here is a link to an article about Greg Norton’s struggles… http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090903&content_id=6778430&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl
I think even Norton is surprised that he keeps getting called on the hit. I love bobby but his managing is very questionable at times. He sticks with guys way to long. His loyalty to players kills the team. Example: Kelly Johnson earlier this year and Greg Norton now. I personally believe he uses guys who struggle (pitchers or hitters) in order to get them out of "funks". I think some time off is a good solution. Because usually the funks get worse.
by BravesFanScout on Sep 3, 2009 11:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think you are right and like everyone, including even the AJC writers, I am really tired of Norton still getting chances. However, I’ve realized that Frank Wren could stop this today if he cared enough to do so. He could release Norton and eat what’s left of the contract (not much at this point). If there is some rule that I don’t know about preventing a release, he could simply order Cox to not play him for the rest of the season and fire him if he disobeys. There are ways to stop this. I hate to bring up the past because I don’t think he was as perfect as many do, but I will say one thing about Schuerholz. He for sure would have gotten rid of Norton well before this point.
Bobby really needs to go. I’ve felt this way for several years now. It just gets more obvious with each passing year.
by Zontar on Sep 4, 2009 7:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly how I feel
Is good to come here to vent. I like Bobby but he is killing us lately.
by jvvenez on Sep 4, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read the story on the link,Norton may not be hitting but as a person 1st class!
Senator, we have another old saying,"Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." Fletcher
by jimmontg on Sep 4, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
FIRE BOBBY! FIRE WREN! BLOW UP THIS TEAM!!!1
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 3, 2009 11:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
thats not funny
it was a horrible game and its seriously time time to consider some changes in atlanta.
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
by mvhsbball on Sep 3, 2009 11:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
yeah…I hate when Bobby uses guys who consistently dominate opposing hitters. Medlen should have been cut after last night’s horrible game, even though he had something like a 10k/9 and a minuscule ERA…and Moylan and Gonzo, gosh. I hate when Bobby keeps using them to get guys out. I wish he would get a clue that they can effectively do their jobs. They are good. We get it. We want to see who else is good. We need to use the other guys who don’t shut down their opponents night in and night out, because they all need a chance. Plus, we all know that Bobby uses his top 4 relievers more than any other manager in the league…wait…that isn’t true? Oh, well crap. I guess I am just aimlessly ranting then.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 3, 2009 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How exactly is a 4.02 ERA “miniscule”?
Your sarcasm isn’t on point at all, because you missed the point entirely. Regardly of how good pitchers are, you cant keep overworking them the way Bob Cox does.
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Sep 4, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
look at his ERA in August out of the BP
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 4, 2009 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Justin
that made absolutely no sense at all and totally missed the point.
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
by mvhsbball on Sep 4, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The point is that Medlen only appeared in 10 games in August and people complained that he wasn’t used enough. Now he has been used in 4 straight games (not an uncommon thing for MLB relievers, btw) and all of a sudden, he has been overused and Bobby sucks at managing.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 4, 2009 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you honestly dont think Kris Medlen hasn’t been overused the past 4 days?
I agree he wasn’t used enough earlier, but 4 games in a row in the middle of a playoff race? I cant justify any rookie…let alone any pitcher…pitching 4 games in a row. not to mention the Marlins have a pretty good lineup.
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
by mvhsbball on Sep 4, 2009 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you’re saying you woulda left Moylan and O’flaherty in there after it was obvious to the blind guy begging for change on fifth avenue that they were getting rocked and didn’t have it? You can throw stats out all day, but what you did for the past month has no bearing on the fact that you don’t have it tonight.
"Ohhhh Shit."-Bobby Cox, 3/28/09
by 10-4 on Sep 4, 2009 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
fail
Medlen, not Moylan. i guess i’m dreaming of that sexy haircut of his.
"Ohhhh Shit."-Bobby Cox, 3/28/09
by 10-4 on Sep 4, 2009 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I am not saying that. I think Medlen was a bad choice last night. But let’s be real here. It is not an uncommon thing for RPs to make 4 appearances in a row. Why are we all getting our panties in a wad because Bobby did it?
My main point is that I just get sick and tired of people criticizing Bobby and everyone else for everything they do. If he doesn’t pitch Medlen, he is stupid and doesn’t trust Kris. If he pitches him, he is stupid for over-using a rookie.
The worst part is that some people are saying both things.
There is a reason that all of us are online posting and bitching about what Cox does. That reason is that none of us are good enough to manage a MLB ball club. Cox is a HoF manager. I think he knows what he is doing. A recent Sports Illustrated poll showed that something like 60% of all MLB players voted for Cox as the manager that they would most want to play for – I seriously doubt that they think he is stupid.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 4, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course players want to play for him because he is going to give you some playing time even when you cant hit a effing baseball. Kj at the start of the season was getting run out there every night, Frenchy, and he keeps using Norton. Hell who wouldn’t want to play for that kind of manager. Its still strange KJ hasnt gotten any playing time it must be a signal from the front office and not Cox’s choice.
Baseball is my life
by That a boy on Sep 4, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder who Kelly would vote for now
These players are voting on what they have heard over the years. They don’t see the decisions Cox makes on a nightly basis for 162 games a year. Lets remember that players also vote on Gold Gloves and Silver Sluggers, and all that is is a popularity contest. So, of course, players are gonna vote for a prominent name thats been in the majors for a long time. Do you think Fredi Gonzalez gets a lot of votes.
"Ohhhh Shit."-Bobby Cox, 3/28/09
by 10-4 on Sep 4, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not so much who as to when
Mr. Justin read my post below please, I’m not complaining so much about putting Chris in, but Bobby needed to yank him quick as Hell when Chris was failing, just like the night before he needed to get Javy out of there. I understand the concerns of emptying the BP, but it would be better to lose in the 14th inning with your worst reliever than to lose in the 6th with one of your best because it’s long odds you will never get to the 14th. The Braves lose games because of ALL the various factors that work against us,LOB,errors,pitcher failures, offense, defense and yes some management goofs as well. I don’t think Bobby is stupid, he just leaves me wondering what he’s thinking. I think he doesn’t want to hurt his players feelings or something, but I don’t know what goes on behind closed doors. The only pipeline I had to inside the Braves inner workings went to NY with Frenchy. My neighbor’s wife’s second cousin’s neice is neighbors to the Francouers.LOL
Senator, we have another old saying,"Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." Fletcher
by jimmontg on Sep 4, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, there may be people that may be good enough to manage a MLB ball club, but they weren’t good enough ballplayers to have the opportunity. Not saying that I could or anyone on here could manage a team, but professional sports decisions in the front office from the manager on up is almost more politics and who you know then what you know.
Cockchafer
by bpk228480 on Sep 4, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1,3,4
MLB ranks for appearances by Moylan (1), Gonzalez (3) and O’Flaherty (t4). Soriano is technically tied for 24th but his 61 appearances are only 6 back of O’Flaherty. That is the definition of a manager using the top four relievers more than any other manager in the league.
They may have to hospitalize Sid Bream!
-We miss you Skip!
by RaymondBatista on Sep 4, 2009 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how many pitches?
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 4, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is with Cox’s absolute refusal to give anyone else a chance out of the pen? If he thinks this little of Logan or Buddy than why even have them on the roster? He won’t use them in close games and Logan still didn’t even manage to pitch in this one after it became a blowout. Also, I completely agree with Sparhawk’s sympathy for Medlen. Medlen had nothing yesterday and even less today and was basically thrown to the wolves because Bobby is too damn stubborn to use anyone who hasn’t already pitched six times in a week.
by kevsny13 on Sep 3, 2009 11:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think it is funny that when Bobby doesn’t use these guys, people get upset because the other BP guys “suck”. Yet when he does use them, they are overworked.
Especially Medlen. 2 weeks ago, people were complaining that Medlen never gets used…now he is overused.
Ridonculous
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 3, 2009 11:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I've been thinking that for a long time.
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Sep 3, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Umm.
that’s because Medlen went like a week and a half without an appearance, even in the blowouts, he brought Gonzo and Soriano in when we had like a 7 run lead. That’s when people wanted to see Medlen. Now he is getting overworked, he was brought in 3 nights in a row in close game situations and clearly didn’t have the stuff to be in there. So, people are correct, it’s just WHEN they’re being used, not HOW OFTEN.
by BravesRaleigh on Sep 3, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nail on head. Hell, even on monday, they had a 5-1 lead and brought in Moylan, O’Flaherty, Gonzo, and Soriano. It seems like Bobby has no clue that if you do this, you may affect whether or not you can bring them in in a much tighter game in the next few days, which shocker, all three of the following games ended up being.
"Ohhhh Shit."-Bobby Cox, 3/28/09
by 10-4 on Sep 4, 2009 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't know MLB had re-runs
Pretty much every word of frustration I’d say has already been said some way shape or form. Surprising thing is nobody’s said a word about Jim Wolf’s inconsistent strike-zone and rookie squeezing, but it’s kind of moot anyways.
A bit irritated, sure. But would anyone be this crushed by a loss if there wasn’t something to play for? Probably not. But it’s still frustrating, so I can relate to most everyone’s anger right now.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
by royhobbs on Sep 4, 2009 12:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i think all the frusturation with Jim Wolf was said in the game thread. every 30 seconds there was someone cussing him out.
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
by mvhsbball on Sep 4, 2009 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wanted...
…to pinch Jim Wolf’s head off. I almost think he was testing Hanson to see if he could break his composure. If so, he passed the test with flying colors, but the team ended up flunking the final exam.
Bobby needs a day off. Or maybe a month.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
by sddbaker on Sep 4, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Braves bloggers are more honest than the post-game crew
Yes, this is on Cox, and here’s the only place where it’s being said.
Gant and Jordan are adoring former employees and the other guys are bought and paid for by management. You’ll find no honest journalism there, no one asking the kind of tough questions you’d get in the clubhouse from e.g. the New York press corps.
At least the blogging community can speak the truth. Cox is too loyal to players, often the wrong ones, not tough enough on players, and he cranky blame-the-umpire excuse fest is seeming more like the ranting of a dotty old coot who wants to get off work early. He should be invited to retire gracefully, and a hard core motivator with the mindset of a football coach should replace him.
by JimK on Sep 4, 2009 12:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If I want to watch a football coach...
I’ll watch a football game.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
by sddbaker on Sep 4, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree,Braves need a Captain not a drill sergeant.
Senator, we have another old saying,"Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." Fletcher
by jimmontg on Sep 4, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I missed the game tonight
I had to help my kid move so I just got home and saw this. I said the same things on yesterdays game blog. I think maybe Bobby thought Chris needed to get back up on the horse that threw him off last night. We don’t have the room for that in a race to get to the playoffs, not right now. We aren’t out of it yet, there is still time. But Bobby can’t afford to play favorites or getting the rookie ready for next year. I sometimes really think he doesn’t want the pressure of the playoffs. I think he might retire after this season, he’ll be 70. I like Bobby and admire him,but leaving pitchers in games when it is obvious they are off their game and are losing it has been something he is known for and I don’t know how many games it cost us,something they don’t have a stat for.
Senator, we have another old saying,"Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." Fletcher
by jimmontg on Sep 4, 2009 1:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
When they left
Medlen in to give up the lead, I just cut the TV off. What’s sad is that I haven’t cut off the TV all year, but this is all on Bobby. I was cussing him under my breath tonight, this one was lost on the manager.
The worst game managed by Cox all year.
Why'd the Mets, of all teams, have to draft John Maine!?!?
by Ninerballin on Sep 4, 2009 2:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Would it be a stretch to say it’s the worst game he’s managed in his CAREER?
by Fat Dingflyer on Sep 4, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Playoff hopes are fading fast
Since our 32-18 run, this disappoiniting loss leaves us at 4-5 the last 9 games.
Splitting this series and shuffling along around .500 for a few weeks just doesn’t get it done at this point in the season.
With only 28 left to play, the time to make a run is evaporating. We must win 5 or 6 in a row almost immediately to climb into the race.
by fandave on Sep 4, 2009 7:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What gets me is Bobby tries so hard to protect his starters, but will run a reliever into the ground. 100 pitches, better get him out of there. But a reliever, well, 3,4 days in a row is no big deal.
"Ohhhh Shit."-Bobby Cox, 3/28/09
by 10-4 on Sep 4, 2009 8:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The offense needs to start being consistent as well. Yes Bobby made a mistake but through out the series we left runners on numerous times. Chipper needs to start hitting and play better defense and stop yapping before it’s to late..
by AlRoBraves95 on Sep 4, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last night when Medlen came in the game I was OK with it at first. I was thinking back to the comments about Wednesday’s night horrible 6th inning about putting the rookie out there with bases loaded was unfair to him and his getting hammered could have been because of too much pressure. Perhaps starting off an inning and having success would let him put the memory of that behind him.
However, when he started getting knocked – I begged out loud on the game thread for Bobby to please don’t leave him in there until our score was doubled (or more). And we all know what happened. A 3-1 game became a 5-3 game before Medlen was taken out and then O’Flaherty tacked on another 2 to make it 7-3 Marlins before the inning was over.
Now Bobby gets to look at his offense (who started that inning with the LEAD), and motivate them to try once again to get 5 runs to win the game, IF we can hold ’em to just 7.
I’m not a manager, I don’t play one on TV, and granted our offense stopped coming and failed to capitalize once again with bases loaded - but my main beef with Bobby is he leaves pitchers out there too long when their stuff is being hit like it’s on a tee.
I don’t know why he does it when anyone with eyes can see a guy is not going to “get out of it” before it’s too late, but he does time and time again not just this series. Frustrates the hell out of me.
A quote by Nolasco after the game says a lot.
Nolasco, who was 0-3 with an 8.10 ERA in his previous five starts against the Braves, allowed five of the first six batters he faced in the two-run fifth to reach safely.“We didn’t get off to a good start, but at least to salvage the last two picks us up and puts the pressure on them,” said Nolasco, who was fortunate to only be charged with three earned runs and seven hits in his six-inning effort.
That strike zone Bobby was bitching so much about (which was pathetic btw) – didn’t seem to hurt the Marlins much.
by NCChopper on Sep 4, 2009 8:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The strike zone for the Marlins...
was not as pathetic. That’s what was so irritating. It was inconsistent.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
by sddbaker on Sep 4, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bobby Cox?
Wow, Bobby Cox has officially lost it. One of the most important games of the year and all of us were screaming what is he doing? We all thought we were going to lose when Medlen came in and how come he didn’t get it? Give him an ambassador job like Tommy LaSorda.
by Fortune favors the brave(s) on Sep 4, 2009 11:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agree....
I was shocked to see Medlen in the game. The kid was just slapped around the night before. I just don’t get it. What was wrong with leaving Tommy in there form another inning? Becuase he threw 104 pitches already? What does that mean? Upto that point Tommy had given up 2 hits and 1 run.
Cox was better offf going with Valdez or Buddy. Whats the point of having “fresh arms” of your not going to use it. Bad call Bobby bad call
by AlRoBraves95 on Sep 4, 2009 11:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If the Braves win
Bobby gets praised for sticking w/Meds & showing his loyalty after Kris’ bad outing the night before. He loses & gets slammed for that same virtue. I blame those hitting fools, the Marlins. It was their night. Joe or Boog threw out a stat that the fish had scored 90 runs during the course of the year in the 6th inning. Pretty good numbers. It’s a shame their fans don’t come out to support them. I said a couple of weeks ago this would be a critical series. We got a split. It could’ve been a lot worse. Though the odds are lower, we’re still in it. Go Braves. Don’t let your guard down on the Reds. We need this series bad. Bobby & Dusty….the battle of the titans.
by adc62 on Sep 4, 2009 2:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I like your style….
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
by sddbaker on Sep 4, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now I’m kinda glad I didn’t watch the game.
by Fat Dingflyer on Sep 4, 2009 2:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sept
To add to this well written commentary on last nights debacle, I’d like to say just a couple things to go along with the article. First, the rosters are expanded and Bobby is known for using players just called up. So why in the world call these “fresh” arms us and not use them. Secondly and a move for the life of me can’t understand. I read a couple weeks back that Jason Heyward was being set down for the rest of the season. Well, this has not been the case. How many times has Greg Norton in recent games came up as a PH and simply put looked horrible! Why is he not on the ML Roster? I just don’t get that move! Give him a taste for next season, a taste that could send the team to the playoffs this year. Somethings I just will never understand!!!!
by jerryr on Sep 4, 2009 6:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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