2010 payroll...
by ryan c on Sep 10, 2009 11:40 PM EDT
94 comments
in all likelihood, the braves will exercise tim hudson's 2010 option and trade javier vazquez for some relief help or a power bat. if the braves decided to let hudson walk, they would be wasting a very valuable trading chip in vazquez. hudson won't even bring in any draft picks. so, with that in mind, i came up with my 2010 payroll spreadsheet . all of the arb salaries are approximate and some roster moves are influenced by my opinion as to what the braves should/will do with their 25-man roster in 2010.
| Lowe | 15 |
| Hudson | 12 |
| Chipper | 13 |
| Kawakami | 7.33 |
| Mccann | 5.67 |
| Mclouth | 5 |
| Infante | 1.85 |
| Ross | 1.6 |
| Diaz | 3 |
| Jurrjens | 1 |
| Escobar | 1 |
| Prado | 0.75 |
| Moylan | 2 |
| Medlen | 0.5 |
| Church | 3.5 |
| Hanson | 0.5 |
| Heyward | 0.5 |
| Conrad | 0.5 |
| O'Flaherty | 0.5 |
| 75.2 |
Here are my 19 players that i think will most definitely be on the 2010 roster. The braves 2009 payroll was probably over 100 million after the acquisitions of laroche and mclouth. with that being said, I would expect the payroll to take a dip to the 90-95 million dollar range. With 75.2 million likely going to 19 players, that leaves 15-20 million dollars for the remaining 6.
so, my question to you guys is, do the braves go and spend 10-12 mil per year on a big bat and trade vazquez for some qualitly "closing caliber" relief, or do they take other routes to fill the ballclub's needs?
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I think we trade Hanson in the offseason.
by yondaime4 on Sep 11, 2009 12:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Heyward too.
Frank Wren for GM of the Year.
by mvhsbball on Sep 11, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey now
dont forget Teheran, Freeman and J.J.
Apparrently the Cards agreed to give us Pujols
by drumzalicious on Sep 11, 2009 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gress
He’ll take Hanson’s place in the rotation and Heyward’s place in RF. That will easily add 10 wins to this team.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
by buzzdeadwax on Sep 11, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would be very unhappy if they traded Hanson, there isn’t anyone on this team I wouldn’t trade before Tommy and I wouldn’t trade Heyward either. I know your kidding,but you never know. JV will be traded I think for a big hitter and as for the bullpen kind of hard to call. Gonzo will leave I’m sure and I don’t think many of us think it but Medlen is looking like a prime trade possibility. JV and Medlen would look very good to some teams with big hitters. But as the Braves may be bargain hunting , don’t know if we could actually get someone we could afford.
Senator, we have another old saying,"Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." Fletcher
by jimmontg on Sep 11, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Resign Soriano. The man has been plainly sick over the course of the season, and we’re not going to get a better arm in free agency. Lock him up, let Gonzalez walk, and use Medlin/EOF as a setup tandem. I’m pretty sure that Logan stays in the bullpen, leaving Moylan as our only other multi-million dollar arm.
That leaves more than enough money to go sign that big impact bat, especially if Chipper gives back some salary as he has hinted he might do.
"Brian McCann will be guest starring as Bizarro in Smallville this fall. See, he has to put his glasses on to become Superman." -by Rhyno18 on Aug 4, 2009 5:52 PM EDT
by Chopaholic on Sep 11, 2009 4:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Soriano screams contract year...
I wouldn’t expect him to pitch this well again.
by Mr. Sanchez on Sep 11, 2009 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano has pitched pretty damned well in his non-contract years, too. I say give the man a chance.
"Brian McCann will be guest starring as Bizarro in Smallville this fall. See, he has to put his glasses on to become Superman." -by Rhyno18 on Aug 4, 2009 5:52 PM EDT
by Chopaholic on Sep 12, 2009 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
He’s had a significantly lower WHIP in ‘07 and ’03, comprable K/9 before (’03), BB/9s just as good or better (’07, ’03, ’02), and lower H and HR/9. Not like Vazquez, who is at career highs in many categories.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 14, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sign the O-dog
or Mike cameron. Now that I think about it, if we got another bat, where would he play?
Matt Diaz flipping rules.
...>_>
by esadb on Sep 11, 2009 6:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bay
I think Jason Bay might be a little cheaper this offseason after a down year or maybe even Nady coming off injury. Holliday will probably be out of the Braves price range, but all three of those would be good RH bats to put in left next year.
by JFP on Sep 11, 2009 10:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Regarding left field..l
This is another reason why i think it’s got to be frustrating being matt diaz. matt diaz plays plus defense in left field and hits better than an average left fielder, yet we ponder a move to replace him. imo, left field is covered with church and diaz. the power is going to have to come from first base. xavier nady or nick swisher come to mind again, just as they did last offseason.
by ryan c on Sep 11, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Between Diaz, Church, McLouth, Schafer, & Heyward, I don’t think there’s a need for another outfielder.
by beeswax on Sep 11, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you!
Hold onto ALL of our starters with Kawakami as our closer.
1. Schafer/Diaz CF/LF
2. McLouth/Diaz LF/CF
3. Chipper 3B
4. LaRoche/Johnson/Glaus/DeRosa/Huff/Freeman 1B
5. McCann C
6. Escobar SS
7. Heyward/Diaz RF
8. Counsell/Prado 2B
That is a grind it out offense with good OBPs from 1-8. Counsell and Prado would be an OBP driven LH/RH platoon and Diaz could spell anyone in the OF against lefties whenever one starts or comes into relieve. Whichever one of those firstbasemen we could get to sign a 1-2yr deal should be the one signed. We we would still have money left over to bring back Gonzo or another setup man to shore up our late inning relief.
by bbxxj on Sep 11, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what the...
freeman 4th and heyward 7th? we’re gonna be that protective of heyward? your children must be bubble children
by BravesRaleigh on Sep 12, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poor punctuation and personal attacks. Good start.
Freeman was just listed there as a last option at first base should the other options not work out. He obviously wouldn’t be batting 4th but yes I would bat Heyward 7th until he gets a bit more MLB seasoning.
by bbxxj on Sep 12, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd prefer he bat sixth.
That is where Andruw Jones batted at the beginning of his career and he was able to produce runs from that position as well as get accustomed to Majoe League pitching. Hope my punctuation was okay.?!/.,*
by BravesRaleigh on Sep 14, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kawakami doesn’t seem like he’d make a particularly good reliever …
by Lennox on Sep 13, 2009 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kawakami as the closer?
Why? He’s not a strikeout guy, and his multi-pitch repertoire is wasted out of the ’pen.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 14, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
howz about
Take a chance on a one year deal with Billy Wagner to be the new closer? I think it could happen…
by beeswax on Sep 11, 2009 11:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
bold predictions:
I’m not the “I told you so” type, so I wont remind everyone over and over if I get these right, but here it goes:
1. chipper will bat 2nd for us next year.
2. mclouth will bat 3rd
3. diaz will be full-time left fielder and lead off
4. heyward will be cleanup by june.
5. mccann will get many more days rest.
6. so will chipper.
7. smoltz makes amends with the braves and becomes our closer (one of my less-educated predictions, but oh well).
8. church spends some time at first base relieving our right-handed hitting 1b we picked up.
9. 2 young bullpen “closer type” arms will come from the vazquez trade.
10. nick swisher becomes a brave spending most time at 1b but gives diaz, mclouth, and heyward 1 night off every other week. prado plays first during that time.
11. and all of this happens because bobby cox will not be the 2010 manager. who is it, you say? well, i’m not that smart… oh, who am i kidding…eddie perez takes over.
by ryan c on Sep 11, 2009 2:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I feel like pretty much none of those will come true.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Sep 12, 2009 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very unlikely...
- is the only 1 that actually makes sense. #7………….wow, that’s extremely bold and won’t happen. We won’t take him back after the stuff he said about us.
by BravesRaleigh on Sep 12, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
woops
meant 4 is the only one that will actually happen, 1 definitely won’t.
by BravesRaleigh on Sep 12, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
reason why...
they are called bold predictions, aside from 7, they’re not too far fetched, if 11 happens. bobby is too traditional to bat chipper at #2, but other managers might see the sense in batting diaz at leadoff, chipper at 2nd, and mclouth at 3rd considering that’s where they should actually be hitting in terms of obp and power.
and all of the moves make sense if the goal is to win games (except for #7, which is for nostalgic purposes only). imo, 4 is actually my boldest prediction.
by ryan c on Sep 12, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so pretty much...
you’re just rosterbating by saying what they SHOULD do. and i highly doubt heyward will be batting cleanup that early
by BravesRaleigh on Sep 14, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prado won’t be at .75M, more like .5M. You also overshot Escobar and Jurrjens who will also be around half a million as well because they’re pre arb. which basically maxes out around .5M iirc. I might be wrong but I’m fairly certain that’s right. Also no chance Moylan gets 2M. And the other small thing would be Hanson and Heyward at .4 not .5. Small differences but that’s approximately 2.2M dollars right there, which would put us at 73M
by McCann's the Man on Sep 11, 2009 7:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i tend to overshoot arb years....
for 2 reasons:
1. I dont know a ton about them.
2. it seems like most people on the blogosphere make their predictions too low, then have to recalculate the money spent when it’s more than they predicted.
by ryan c on Sep 12, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But those aren’t arb years you overshot. If you aren’t arbi elligible then the team hands you a 0.5M contract or so and then you sign it.
by bbxxj on Sep 12, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly, there’s no debating the pre arb guys and i think you went way too high on moylan, guys like him never touch 2M
by McCann's the Man on Sep 12, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
like i said...
dont know much about the arb process, so i overshot the contracts. i did a couple of hours worth of research and gave my best guess.
by ryan c on Sep 12, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
new numbers...
after prado, jurrjens, esocbar, and moylan adjustment put it at 72.95 mil. there you go.
by ryan c on Sep 12, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No big deal. We weren’t trying to bust your balls. Arbi guys are hard to get exact but pre arbi guys are not hard.
by bbxxj on Sep 12, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Assuming it’s 73M ideally, I’d like to trade Kawakami for prospects (65.67M). Then sign Billy Wagner (4M, 2 years closer’s job w/ option to void after 1 yr based on dl time), Mike Gonzalez (5M, 3 years), and trade for Mike Wuertz (~1.5M). That is a stacked bullpen but also dominant against lefties with wagner and gonzalez, take that philly. Then trade for Dan Uggla (~7M) using some of our pitching prospects not named Teheran or Randall Delgado. Then sign Troy Glaus for 1 year at about 3.5M with incentives to play first base, or Adam LaRoche on a 2 year deal. With Glaus that puts payroll at about 87.5M (last two spots go to pre arb guys like kimbrel), LaRoche more like 91M. Strong team too
by McCann's the Man on Sep 11, 2009 7:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
*should be 2M per year for 2 years for Wags though now that i think about it, i wouldn’t be willing to give up my first for him so unless we get a protected pick scratch that. Could be changed to Soriano/Valverde or a buy low on JJ Putz (incentive contract) if they think he can make it through a full season without major elbow damage (TJ surgery)
by McCann's the Man on Sep 11, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
noone...
will take kawakami. he had endurance issues all year. plus, the braves just tapped in to the japanese market. no way they burn that bridge already. plus, if you think billy wagner is going to pitch for 2 mil/year, lets just say we disagree. dan uggla does not make sense for this team considering we have 3-4 players right now that could step in and be a top 5 in the league 2nd baseman. prado is the 3rd most productive 2nd baseman in the league behind utley and uggla. the power is going to have to come from first base.
by ryan c on Sep 12, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Endurance issues? Like pitching every five days and providing six innings? Because that doesn’t exactly qualify an issue. Wagner has already said that money means nothing to him, he just wants a closer’s role to get his saves. But like i said not worth a 1st rounder. Kelly Johnson is the only guy that could step in and be a top 5 2B next year. Prado’s numbers are significantly improved by a 50 game stretch where he was playing well over his head. Conrad and Infante (i assume those are the other two) come nowhere near the top 5. Utley, Uggla, Hudson, Sanchez (over Prado), Brandon Phillips, and Rickie Weeks if he doesn’t move to center. Getting Uggla provides this team with a legit 30 HR hitter in the 4 slot, average defense at second base, and has two more years of control. Plus we could still get either Troy Glaus or Adam LaRoche to man 1st base
by McCann's the Man on Sep 12, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
prado ops this year:
.781
prado’s career ops:
.788
its not a fluke.
go back and look at uggla’s game logs. he’s another kj….another andruw jones: hot streaks followed by massive cold streaks. give me a steady hitter and fielder at 2b any day over a poor fielding, streaky home run hitting 2b.
by ryan c on Sep 12, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never said he was a fluke but I don’t agree with people’s assertion that he’s deserving of an everyday second base job on this team and dan uggla represents a definitive upgrade over all other options on this team. Fact remains that Prado and Infante are best suited for utility roles, playing a lot but not everday starters. His OPS was well over .800 during his ridiculous stretch and since has cooled down back to career norms. Those norms coupled with poor defense don’t suggest top 5 2B.
by McCann's the Man on Sep 12, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prado is just as if not more poor fielding than Uggla so nice try but not getting that one. And there’s no defineable correlation between consistency at the plate and wins so streaky hitter or not has no value here. And anyways Prado has been incredibly streaky this year, one stretch of great offense followed by poor offense. And if you wouldn’t take another Andruw Jones pre 2008 you’re crazy. You said you wanted power, Uggla brings that along with a solid OBP.
by McCann's the Man on Sep 12, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The funny thing about the Prado enthusiasts as well is that he was even better in 2008, though aided by an unsustainably high BABIP. I’m not saying the guy is bad and I love having him on my team but he’s most valuable to us as a supersub imo
by McCann's the Man on Sep 12, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The one thing you could have proposed that I would have been willing to consider is trading for Uggla and sticking Prado at first base where his defense is very good (albeit sss). You still get a power injection for the lineup in Uggla while improving team defense and Prado’s on base skills play well at the bottom of the lineup
by McCann's the Man on Sep 12, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prado is nowhere close to a "steady fielder."
Prado: -15.0 career UZR/150
Uggla: -2.4 career UZR/150.
So who’s the poor fielder again?
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 14, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prado, 3rd most productive 2B?
ha. Ha. HA.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 14, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
when first published...
prado was 3rd in OPS behind utley and uggla. i would consider that to be the 3rd most productive. in the last week, he has slid to 5th behind felipe lopez and brandon phillips. i dont know if you have a personal vendetta against prado, but he’s a good ballplayer. he has struggled heavily over the last month and that has caused many to sour on him.
his numbers this year are pretty consistent with the numbers he put up last year. do i think he will be a top 3 2nd baseman? no, but he can most definitely flirt with top 5. his defense looks to be improving, he’s hitting for more power, and he’s cheap.
btw, the braves are discussing extending hudson. the braves cant trade lowe because noone will take him, jurrjens is too cheap to trade, and kawakami is not an option because it would probably close the door to the japanese market that we just opened to our system by signing him. that leaves vazquez.
by ryan c on Sep 14, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never understood how trading Kawakami closes the “Japanese bridge.” We’re still going to have to pay near top dollar for every Japanese FA but we’ve shown a willingness to let Japanese ball players take key roles on the team ie a starting spot. This does more to open a Japanese connection than keeping the guy around and letting him rot in the pen. As we’ve shown Japanese guys that they can succeed in Atlanta will do more for this franchise than merely sticking with Kawakami out of fear of never signing another Japanese FA
by McCann's the Man on Sep 14, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's not that hard of a concept...
kawakami is the first japanese player to play for the braves. trading him after he adjusted to a new team in a new country will hurt that relationship between the braves and the japanese market. there are 30 more teams to choose from. how can you not understand that? and who said anything of letting him rot in the pen? kawakami has 145.2 innings of 4.02 and would be a ridiculously above average 5th starter.
by ryan c on Sep 14, 2009 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we keep him, he will likely fufill the role of LR/swing man which generally doesn’t see that many innings. That would be rotting in the pen. He chose the Braves but if they talked to and explained the situation I’m sure they could reach an agreement. If he’d rather stay and not start then keep him but if he wants to start i don’t see how it would hurt relations to give him what he wants
by McCann's the Man on Sep 14, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how?
one of tim hudson or vazquez is gone. i dont know any of the upper management so i have absolutely no connections, but i can say with a stout voice that they will not both be in the rotation. that being said, kawakami has a spot.
it’s not about hurting kawakami’s feelings. it’s about trading a player, the first player signed, from another country, with very different cultural backgrounds. other japanese players would be reluctant to sign with the braves due to no security. once again, its not that hard of a concept. the opposite effect was one of the reasons, for years, that people admired, and came to play in atlanta for under market value.
take it out of baseball context. if you took a job in japan with a company, got to know the people of that company, got to know the city, made friends, and then got moved to another part of the country a year later, where you would have to start the process all over, how would you feel?
baseball players are no different. just like us, they like stability and trading our first japanese player after one year would not be good for the relationship between the braves and the japanese market.
by ryan c on Sep 14, 2009 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there’s no point in taking it out of baseball context, this is the major leagues. Like I said you talk to him and if he wants to stay as the LR/swing man I’d be up to keeping him but there’s no way I’m trading Vazquez right now (unless i can get a killer offer, which doesn’t look all too likely) or declining huddy’s option
by McCann's the Man on Sep 15, 2009 7:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well...
your not the gm and that was never part of our discussion. please, stay to one argument. in all probability, the braves cannot keep hudson and vazquez due to financial restraints. hudson has the better track record. the argument was never about keeping vazquez. it was about burning bridges with the japanese market. and there is point in taking out of baseball text…these guys are human beings, remember? you think kawakami can adjust to a new country, new language, and a new group of people better than you or i because he’s a baseball player? why?
by ryan c on Sep 15, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s a baseball player, the Braves own his playing rights. He knows this so he shouldn’t be surprised if he’s dealt especially given the circumstances. And a huge part of whether Kawakami stays or not is Vazquez (and Hudson) so that is completely valid to bring them up. Wren’s job is to put the most competitive team out there and he can do it within his financial parameters by keeping vazquez and hudson, this misguided sense that a “japanese link” will provide boundless opportunities for atlanta to sign the next Japanese star are way off imo. It’s all about money and whether or not Kawakami stays and goes will have little influence imo
by McCann's the Man on Sep 15, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's an above-average overall hitter who can't sustain as an everyday player.
Period. And who cares about the “Japanese market?” If there are good players there, we will try to sign them.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 14, 2009 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
where's the proof?
he played in over 100 games in 4 straight minor league years with a career minor league average of .300. where’s your proof? this slump? c’mon, man. it’s his first year as a regular and he has a .291 average…9 points less than his minor league numbers.
by ryan c on Sep 14, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jeremy Sowers and Ian Kennedy looked like future rotation locks for their respective teams in the minors, I really wouldn’t use minor league numbers to back up a claim unless the player isn’t in the majors yet ie Heyward
by McCann's the Man on Sep 14, 2009 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that makes no sense..
your argument is bogus. prado sustained his production. and i wasnt harking on comparing the numbers, but the amount of games played. the argument was that prado couldnt sustain his production over a year, and he has.
plus, we’re not talking pitching. successful minor league pitching is far less transferable than minor league hitting. i know you know that. also, pulling 2 names out of a hat that has probably a half-million names in it is just a lame argument.
also, my point was, thes is NO PROOF of his argument. prado has had 4 full-time productive years in the minors and 1 full-time productive year in the majors. that makes 5/5 success rate and there is no proof that he wont continue to be a successful everyday player.
your move.
by ryan c on Sep 15, 2009 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He didn’t sustain his production though as one could clearly see. He had a nice stretch where he played way over his head and in other months he’s played way wprse. If people are going to complain about KJ’s streakiness then Prado should be lumped in to based on this season
by McCann's the Man on Sep 15, 2009 7:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, you're right...
kj, who has been incredibly streaky since his first year with the braves should be compared to prado and his current september streak. are you serious? players go through cold streaks. are you going to compare chipper jones to kj because he’s going through the worst stretch of his career? you’re cherrypickin’ your stats (very poorly as well). prado, had a successful minor league career and hovered around .300. in over 700 at bats, prado is hovering around .300 for his major league career. look at prado’s game log. those arent near kj cold streaks.
btw, you havent backed your arguments up with stats yet. what’s the deal? did you give up on your argument where you claimed 2 minor league pitchers in a billion prove your point about prado sustaining his production in the majors? once again, personal vendettas an argument dont make….
by ryan c on Sep 15, 2009 8:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His May, August, and September were (/have been) mediocre at best.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 15, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
honestly Im not going to waste my whole day looking for every example of a .300 hitter in the minors not making it in the majors because the list would be very long. Obviously Prado has made but lots of braves fans are now trying to make him into something he’s not, an everyday 2B. He’s an awesome utility man but this season has proved that his bat does go through streaks just like KJ’s (without the power too). If you really think it’s only september then wow
by McCann's the Man on Sep 15, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
...because minor league numbers usually directly translate into major league success.
Just take a look at Mike Hessman’s ridiculous power on all levels.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 15, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
did you read the post?
picking 1 minor leaguer to prove/disprove prado’s major league success is a dumb argument. prado had success in the minors and has now duplicated that success in the majors. until he fails, there should be reason to believe he can succeed on a regular basis with the production he has given on an average of 700 at bats. failing doesnt count “months” he was mediocre. you have no point.
michael procton and “mccann’s the man”: proving that it must be frustrating being matt diaz and martin prado. why do these guys continually have to prove to people like you guys that they are worthy of regular jobs? i mean, all they’ve done is produce at every level that they have been given a fair chance.
by ryan c on Sep 15, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually think Diaz should start LF next year so don’t make stupid generalizations. It’s not about proving anything, it’s about putting players in a position where they will best help the team. And if we can upgrade at 2B (a la Dan Uggla) then Prado’s best spot is UTIL. Ideally he is a UTIL man anyways
by McCann's the Man on Sep 15, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree with this...
“And if we can upgrade at 2B (a la Dan Uggla) then Prado’s best spot is UTIL.”
however, prado would start on over half of the teams in the nl. i still dont think its a smart decision to upgrade a position that already has a massive logjam with players that can produce above average numbers for that position. i dont agree that we should go hunting for 2b. keeping laroche or upgrading at first is the ideal move. this offense has produced good numbers since the francoeur trade and maybe deserves to have a shot at a full 162 with heyward in right.
by ryan c on Sep 15, 2009 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Diaz is different.
Like MtM, please don’t jump to conclusions about which you’re completely wrong.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 16, 2009 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
diaz and prado...
are 2 players, year after year, who have to prove their worths to the braves, never being fully trusted in their starting roles. obviously, assuming you guys thought the same about diaz as you do prado, i was wrong. i wasnt necessarily saying that you guys thought that way (even though that’s the way it sounded). i was trying to make a point that it has to be frustrating being undervalued year after year, and both diaz and prado go through that process.
however, aside from cherrypickin’ a minor leaguer or two (out of the billion to choose from) you still havent backed your posts up with any key points/stats. do you guys have prado’s splits that say he’s better in a part time role. if not, then you still have no point, but i will say this:
trading vazquez might open a door to upgrade at 2nd and first. if we were able to somehow get uggla (fat chance trading inside the leage) and re-sign laroche, i would be ok with prado going back to a part-time role, but then what do you do with infante, kj, and conrad?
just another point: conrad and uggla had very similar minor league numbers. do you think there’s any way conrad competes for the 2nd base job next season? he might hit .240, but his obp will probably be similar to the other candidates. he could add 20-25 homeruns at 2nd.
so, is conrad an uggla light?
by ryan c on Sep 16, 2009 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, here's your key stats.
Prado was named the everyday starter at 2B on July 1. Since, his numbers have steadily declined. In his final month as a part-time player (June), he hit .359/.406/.516. Since, these are his numbers month by month:
.327 .392 .467
.291 .308 .430
.160 .208 .180
If that doesn’t show you that the workload of being an everyday starter has worn him down and limited his effectiveness, I don’t know what ever could.
What do you do with Brooks Conrad? You leave him in the minors, where he belongs. Sure, he’d be an above-average 25th man on most teams. But we don’t need that. Between the positional flexibility of Prado, Infante, and Johnson, all can play on the team and serve as valuable assets.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 16, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
which proves what?
that he’s a .300 hitter? you’re going to use half a month of a ridiculously cold streak to prove that he is a utility player, yet dismiss 4 years of a .300 batting average while being a starter in the minors. if he fades next year after 2-3 months of being a starter, then you might have some proof, but to call what he is doing right now “proof” and dismiss years of real “proof” is insane.
you have no proof…still.
by ryan c on Sep 16, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
just like you have no proof that he can be an effective starter. You’re making claims on limited information (as far as his being a starter, so why can’t procton?) and honestly a .308 OBP and .430 SLG% isn’t exactly good either so .5 a month i think not
by McCann's the Man on Sep 16, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
whatever...
i give up. i guess 5 years of proven stats isnt enough to convince you….minor leagues or not, it’s still proven full-time production if it has continued to the majors.
by ryan c on Sep 16, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look I’d love Prado to prove me wrong and come out and play 150 games next year as an OBP machine but the reality is he hasn’t produced over the course of a full season (or even half a season playing everyday) like he has in a utility role. Does he deserve a shot to play 2B everyday next year? Probably, but I know that if I can get Dan Uggla, I have no problems moving Martin back to a UTIL spot
by McCann's the Man on Sep 16, 2009 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we trade Kawakami for prospects...
I doubt we clear all of his salary off the books. Not if the prospects are any good, anyway.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 14, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t understand this push to keep Gonzalez around, but get rid of Soriano. Did I just step into the Twilight Zone here? Gonzalez has been twitchy while Soriano has been shut-em-down, except for this last stretch of games because Bobby has been running him into the ground.
"Brian McCann will be guest starring as Bizarro in Smallville this fall. See, he has to put his glasses on to become Superman." -by Rhyno18 on Aug 4, 2009 5:52 PM EDT
by Chopaholic on Sep 12, 2009 8:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
About Gonzalez...
he’s a great person to have around a clubhouse. He’s very competitive, can be a great setup guy, he’s always into the game, and even though this doesn’t win games, it helps to have around….he’s great to the fans. I went to 4 games this year, got 3 autographs from him, 1 before the game where he parks (nice bentley btw), 1 pre-game by the dugout, and 1 after the game as they’re pulling out of the parking lot. He’s always giving balls to kids, taking pictures, and signing autographs, he’s a great fan’s player. A great commodity to have around especially since he’s a great player as well. Medlen on the other hand….is losing games, refuses to sign autographs, and I witnessed during BP, he caught maybe 30 balls, gave 0 to the kids around the fence. He’s not a kid’s player or an adult’s player right now.
by BravesRaleigh on Sep 12, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but nobody mentioned medlen before you, wouldn’t you want to use soriano as the counter example?
by McCann's the Man on Sep 14, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t have a problem with Soriano’s talent per se, but I’m a little worried that he has the durability and the moxie to be an everyday lock down closer (as we have seen recently).
I would still like to have him back but for one reason: money
Just look at the recent deals for proven free agent closers: Lidge (3 years, $38 mil +$1.5 buyout option), K-Rod (3 years, $37 mil + $3.5 buyout option), Wagner (4 years, $43 mil), Cordero (4 years, $46 mil + $1 buyout option), Nathan (4 years, $47 mil +$2 mil buyout option), BJ Ryan (five years, $47 mil), Wood (2 years, $20 mil), Fuentes (2 years, $18 mil + $9 mil vesting option), etc…
Think any teams are happy about those deals now? It’s going to be a very weak market for free agent closers. Soriano will likely get a $30 million offer from somebody. With our current struggles and Chipper and Lowe’s deals hanging around our neck in what appear to be albatross contracts, I don’t think we can afford to take on the risk of a big Soriano deal. Gonzalez should be much, much cheaper, but still expensive. (And this is where the Tex trade is going to haunt us for years – imagine Feliz in our bullpen right now, how much he would have helped this season plus the prospect of having such a nasty closer for so cheap in the coming years).
To be honest, I’m intrigued at the idea of mending fences with Smoltz and bringing him back to be a closer at a steep hometown discount. Although a lot of unlikely things would have to fall into place for that to happen.
by DCP916 on Sep 12, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what’s the over/under on how long until the bitching about the Tiex trade stops… a decade?
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Sep 12, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
as soon as feliz’s velocity drops under 100 mph?
by McCann's the Man on Sep 12, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i saw him below 100 for an entire 2 inning outing in Tampa… so does that mean its over… I sure hope so
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Sep 13, 2009 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
right now I’m fine with the trade because all we’ve given up is a gold glove, no bat SS and a setup man. If Feliz sticks in the pen and Andrus’ OPS hovers around .700 then I won’t * about this trade ever again. Now if TX is smart and puts Neftali back in the rotation, then hey hindsight is 20/20
by McCann's the Man on Sep 13, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never.
It blew up our system and got us nothing in results.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 14, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
because gonzo is looking at a 3 year deal between 5-6M per year, while Soriano is 2-3 years for 8-10M per year. There isn’t a big enough gap in talent to justify that much of a difference imo
by McCann's the Man on Sep 12, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
prado...
+/- has him a little below average, but his range has been really good. uggla has neither.
by ryan c on Sep 12, 2009 4:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Career UZR/150 for Uggla is -2.5, pretty much average
by McCann's the Man on Sep 12, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prado for his career is at -15 UZR/150, though it’s only 80 games, i find it hard to call Uggla a poor fielder and then give Prado a pass on his. Prado plays good defense at first and third but not at second
by McCann's the Man on Sep 12, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How is it that Vazquez will be traded "in all likelihood?"
I certainly support such a move if we can get a good return, but I haven’t heard any suggestions that that is close to being a certainty.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 14, 2009 2:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
this thread has just been Proctered
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Sep 14, 2009 8:02 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
indeed. The Proctobomb has struck again!
"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson
by 10-4 on Sep 15, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Christ.
Who knew a thread was dead after four days.
Remember when the Panthers had a good offensive line? Yeah, me too.
--Darin Gantt
by MichaelProcton on Sep 15, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man, if you can’t see the humor in the fact that you show up out of nowhere and get into ten different discussions and vanish again, then well, i don’t really know what to tell you. I know you’ve said you sometimes go long periods of time without getting on here, and thats fine. But that doesn’t make it any less funny that its blatantly obvious whenever you do find time to stop by.
"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson
by 10-4 on Sep 15, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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