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How the LaRoche Deal Could Help Atlanta in 2010

Five days have passed since Frank Wren brought Adam LaRoche back to the Braves and it seems like everyone has shared their evaluation of the deal (mostly negative and/or confused), so here goes another one. My post doesn’t focus on LaRoche’s value down the stretch or the absence of Kotchman for the two seasons after LaRoche presumably leaves Atlanta via free agency. What I am looking at is the value of not having Kotchman (or LaRoche for that matter) for those two years. The scenario I’m using is dependent on a couple things (that very well may not happen), so take this as more of a what-if than breaking down what is decidedly going to happen.

Casey Kotchman was always rather unimportant in the grand scheme of things; that much should come as no surprise. He was merely an affordable and productive enough way to bridge the gap to Freddie Freeman and a lot of my opinion on the matter is based upon our future first baseman’s ETA. The general consensus (at least from the more vocal ones at Talking Chop) seems to be a call-up at some point during the 2010 season. I think anything other than a cup of coffee in September is a pretty unreasonable expectation though. He’s been sort of a package deal with Jason Heyward since the two were drafted in 2007 with both being promoted at essentially the same rate, but a major league promotion will almost certainly not be the same. We’re already talking about Heyward being called up as a 20-year old – something that is incredibly rare -- but he’s polished enough and at a physical maturity level where it would probably work. Freeman on the other hand seems to lack the polish (as evidenced by his .725 OPS in AA) or physical maturity to be a viable option as a major league regular before 2011, at which point he’ll be 21 (still very young).

Even if you don’t agree with my Freddie Freeman timeline, it doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll disagree with the entire post. Financially, this deal makes sense for the Braves even if he’s ready at some point next season and makes more sense if he takes longer than that. Going into this season, Kotchman’s contract status was a major plus since he’s making a little under $3 million, but that price will go up. It was fine to get mediocre production for that amount, but if he makes $4.5 million and $6.5 million (very reasonably estimates) over his final two arbitration-eligible years, would he still have been worth it? To answer that question, we have to account for what a replacement could do and the one player I’ll focus on is Martin Prado.

I know some of you are already cracking your knuckles in preparation of some response about how Prado’s bat doesn’t play at first, but before you write, does Kotchman’s bat play there? If we’re basing next year’s first base production off what we would have gotten from Kotchman, then Prado certainly is an upgrade in terms of value. He’s a better hitter (72-point higher career OPS), has played fantastic defense in his relatively small amount of time at first, and will make about 1/9th Kotchman’s salary this year and around 1/13th his salary in 2010.

The obvious hole in my logic at this point is who will play second and that’s a legitimate concern that could completely destroy this whole scenario if one Kelly Johnson doesn’t hit. I’m optimistic based off of past results and how much less pathetic he’s looked at the plate since his DL stint that KJ is capable of returning as a starting-caliber second baseman, but nevertheless it is a concern. If Kelly (or some combination of Infante and him) can hold down the fort at second, that also frees up possible at-bats and playing time for Brooks Conrad, who undoubtedly impressed Bobby and the rest of the coaching staff in his short time with the big club this season.

The true bottom line in this post is that utilizing Martin Prado at first would not only upgrade the position, but would save a significant amount of money (up to $10 million over the next two seasons) compared to what the team would have been paying for Kotchman and that’s money that could come in handy when looking to re-sign Rafael Soriano after the season.

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First off, i doubt the Braves go into next season with Prado, KJ, Infante and Brooks Conrad on the left side of the infield. That gives you NO power and not much defense whatsoever. Not to mention Conrad has only played 15 games or so in the bigs.

2nd off, i know it saves money, but we’re going to have quite a bit of money to spend this offseason. GA, Soriano, Gonzo, Roachy, and Huddy (he has an option; i really doubt we keep him and Javy in 2010, unless we find a miracle and trade KK) are all going to be free agents. Thats approx. $25MM or so. My guess is we either decline Huddy or trade him/Javy this offseason (most likely Javy) for prospects or a 1B.

So lets say we decline Huddy for arguments sake (him and Javy have similar contracts, so there isnt too much of a difference) and keep Javy for 2010. That gives us $25MM to add a closer, 1B and a veteran bullpen arm. That should be easy to do.

I get what you’re saying about LaRoche saving us money, but i really dont think the Braves have to be that conservative with their money.

7/24/2009 - "The Phillies are too far ahead in the NL East for the Braves to make a run." - Buster Olney

REMEMBER THAT BOYS.

by mvhsbball on Aug 5, 2009 8:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It would be great if we could add a big bat at first

the problem is, who? The free agent market is bare and the trade market isn’t really any better. Of the first basemen with a better OPS than Prado this season, the only ones whose teams would consider dealing them are Adriano Gonzalez and Todd Helton? Neither makes sense because Helton’s contract is far too large and Gonzalez would take way too much to acquire. People have suggested Branyan as a free agent possibility, but after hitting the cover off the ball early, he’s reverted to his normal three true outcomes (light on the walks) self and probably isn’t a good bet to be better offensively or defensively than Prado.

This team needs to look for another stopgap at first and try and upgrade other places because an upgrade at first who is cheap enough (both financially and in terms of prospects in a trade), and has a short enough contract to not block Freeman when he’s ready looks to be almost impossible to find.

by was385 on Aug 5, 2009 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Adrian Gonzalez

I was kinda thinking about him the other day.

Yeah, he would take a bunch to acquire, but he’s definately worth it. He’s cheap, a good guy, and would do even better than he has the past few seasons with protection in the lineup. Not to mention he would get out of that pitchers paradise in San Diego.

I gotta figure the deal would have to start with Freeman (since Blanks can apparently play the OF). They want pitching, so maybe some type of combo of Spurrill/Teheran/DeVall/Delgado/Medlen. And they’d want an OF too so maybe a Cody Johnson or Adam Milligan in the deal. And who knows if they would want a throw-in prospect or two in the deal as well.

That is ALOT to give up, but AGon would do our lineup wonders. Not to mention he’s pretty cheap for 3 more years and plays solid defense at 1B.

McLouth
Prado
Chipper
AGon
BMac
Heyward
Escobar
Church/Diaz

that would be absolutely sick.

7/24/2009 - "The Phillies are too far ahead in the NL East for the Braves to make a run." - Buster Olney

REMEMBER THAT BOYS.

by mvhsbball on Aug 5, 2009 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

not realistic

The Braves have shown absolutely no interest in him and he would take a ton to acquire. I’m looking more at deals that have a chance to happen because Wren will not gut the farm to acquire him.

by was385 on Aug 5, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

true.

idk, i was just rosterbating in a far away world.

i really have no clue what Atlanta might do. LaRoche wont take a 1 year deal and i don’t like any of the upcoming FAs.

7/24/2009 - "The Phillies are too far ahead in the NL East for the Braves to make a run." - Buster Olney

REMEMBER THAT BOYS.

by mvhsbball on Aug 5, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not FA's...

What if instead of looking at the FA’s that are available for a 1-2 year deal, we look at who we could potentially trade for in the offseason that is only signed for 1-2 more years.

I would love to see Paul Konerko in a braves uniform, but really doubt Chicago would give him up or that we would pay 12 mil for one year of Konerko.

Other big time names…Lyle Overbay? Or Derek Lee. Cubs have Jake Fox in waiting and I wonder if they’d be willing to move the face of their team…

by tomahawkin108 on Aug 6, 2009 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I doubt that the Cubs would move Lee for Fox. Fox is horrible on D. Granted, his bat is too good to keep out of the lineup, but I think a trade to an AL team would benefit the cubs more than trading Lee to us for something.

"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT

by justincredubil02 on Aug 6, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does Konerko only have one year left?...

if Chicago were really interested in unloading him, that’d be an interesting choice. He’s inconsistent with average, but could provide some nice right handed power in a lineup with lefties McLouth, McCann, Heyward(?), Schafer(?), Johnson(?) and the switch hitting Chipper, who has been generally stronger from the left side.

by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 6, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

plus...

the last time we made a deal with Ken Williams, that turned out pretty well.

by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 6, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

turned out well for them too, Flowers has been real nice this year

by McCann's the Man on Aug 6, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even better...

means they’ll be more willing to deal with us again.

by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 6, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i still want him to get ABs in the minors. He was SOOO bad this season. And bad wrist or not, he had huge holes in his swings.

Hes only 22 and has plenty of time.

7/24/2009 - "The Phillies are too far ahead in the NL East for the Braves to make a run." - Buster Olney

REMEMBER THAT BOYS.

by mvhsbball on Aug 5, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't say he had huge holes

he really just couldn’t catch up to fastballs if his life depended on it. If he comes back healthy, hits well, and it turns out it was his wrist then I say bring him back up, but if he doesn’t, then give him more time. McLouth gave us flexibility with his development.

by was385 on Aug 5, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still think Schafer is our CF next year and for the next 10 years. He may not make any all star teams, but he will be a legitimate 20-20 guy every year. He will strike out a lot but probably not like he did this year. i still think that wrist bothered him more than most people given credit.

by yondaime4 on Aug 6, 2009 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i really hope so. cause that kid is too damn talented to waste a career.

7/24/2009 - "The Phillies are too far ahead in the NL East for the Braves to make a run." - Buster Olney

REMEMBER THAT BOYS.

by mvhsbball on Aug 6, 2009 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

To be honest the other day I got a headache. Why you make ask? For the first time I looked into the Texiera trade and realized how much good prospect we sent over for him. This kid Nefatali Perez is throwing heat (101mph) out of the bullpen for the Rangers. Jarrod Salamacchia (whatever) I believe is there starting catcher if I am not mistaken.( We have McCann, not mad at that) We also gave them some Left handed SP who aleady has 9 wins fo them and a starting SS, Elvis Andrus(We got Esco, not mad at that) But imagine if we would of had Perez in the 8th, Gonzo in the 7th and Moylan in the 6th? Not that thats the way things would shape upp but thats a great bullpen, KK would of never been a Braves(saved $25million) that could of been spent on Adam Dunn.

Dont trade any more prospect. Sign them

by AlRoBraves95 on Aug 6, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Feliz is the real jewel in that deal. Andrus is a great defensive shortstop, but his bat hasn’t exactly developed. He might be a good hitter in time, but at this point his value is entirely carried by his defense. He’s fairly average.

Salatamacchia was never going to play here. McCann is a better hitter, and Salty’s bat has really fallen off. His bat just doesn’t translate at 1B, and he can’t play anywhere else. His OBP this year is a very Frenchy-ish .294. In truth, he’s just one of three potential catchers that Texas could play, and he probably has the lowest upside of all of them.

Matt Harrison is out of the season, and perhaps part of next year, with some weird medical condition. He’s posted a 5.76 ERA with a 1.60 WHIP in 26 starts over 2 years. He’s walking a ton of guys and striking very many out. In short, he hasn’t been a good pitcher for them when healthy, and he’s not even healthy.

So, in short, they gained a below average batting catcher who isn’t good defensively, a below average lefty pitcher, a fairly average overall SS (who might be good some day) and one really good bullpen arm (who might eventually start). I don’t think the deal was that bad, in retrospect, though it sucks that we missed out on the playoffs. Feliz is the one guy who might really make us regret it.

by Bronn on Aug 6, 2009 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Neftali Perez? You mean we sent another guy in addition to Feliz. Geez, if you’re going to complain about losing a guy at least get the name right

by McCann's the Man on Aug 6, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

who is Neftali Perez?

"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT

by justincredubil02 on Aug 7, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

/facepalm

"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT

by justincredubil02 on Aug 7, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

actually Prado and KJ on the left side would be well above average defensively. kelly has been above average this year at second and metrics suggest that prado is well suited for first

by McCann's the Man on Aug 5, 2009 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yup

His defense has always been described as mediocre range and very good hands at second. Which turns into amazing range and very good hands at first. Not to mention that this is his first season playing first a significant amount and more practice can only help.

by was385 on Aug 5, 2009 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

First, I think you meant the right side of the infield.

As for defense: Johnson, who was in just his third full season playing 2B, now charts as an above-average defender. Infante has as well at times during his career, and has for his entire career shown to be not much worse than average. Prado has, in nearlly 300 innings, shown to be an excellent defender at 1B.

Also, the money issue is far more important than you let on. This is a team run as a line item, and if we fall out of the race soon, revenues will shrink in the season’s waning days.

As the OP said, Prado at 1B gives us equal or better production to Kotchman at significant savings. Was it necessary to punt Kotchman because of his contract? No, but why would you spend more than you have to?

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Aug 5, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the catch, yes i meant right. Getting rid of Kotchman (well LaRoche now) in addition to guys like GA, one of Church/Diaz, Gonzalez, and one starter (i’d prefer KK becuase he just isn’t as good as Javy and Huddy) allows us the flexibility to add a top FA (Matt Holliday possibly?) or build a dominant bullpen (if we go bullpen route it also gives us money under the 90M budget that Liberty set that could be used towards the draft ie spending overslot)

by McCann's the Man on Aug 5, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually that’d be a nice use of the potential 1B savings, putting it towards the draft so we don’t have to go for the easy sign

by McCann's the Man on Aug 5, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thinkingt like Terrance Moore maybe...

but I just can’t see the front office letting Hudson go. A local boy who can be a true #1, you don’t just decline him unless he has a another, much more significant set back in rehab. In the least, you pick up the option and see what you can get in a trade for him, Lowe, Vasquez, or Kawakami (since Jurrjens and Hanson are definite 40% of the rotation). And just thinking out loud, if none can be moved, perhaps they try and make one a closer, Lowe has had success there before and might be talked into it “for the good of the team”.

And on the IF subject, I still wonder if the Braves make a move to find someone who can leadoff and play 2nd. I think Bobby prefers McLouth hitting lower in the order, and Schafer isn’t going to be a leadoff next year, if ever. So with that top spot in the order a question mark, I wonder if Johnson gets dealt this winter and a leadoff option is brought in.

by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 6, 2009 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let Huddy go. We dont know how he’s going to respond when he comes back, but I would put my money on a pitcher who is probably my ACE in Javy. He’s been spectacular. Why would we trade him? Let Huddy go, sign Soriano again and trade for a 1st basemen(the best FA 1st basemen is LaRoche) and a reliever.Not to sure about Gonzo yet…

by AlRoBraves95 on Aug 6, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sign LaRoche this offseason for 3 years and if Freeman is ready by the second year trade LaRoche for some prospects. Add LaRoche, sign a cleanup hitter in RF or LF, let GA go, pickup Huddy’s option and trade him for a bat, sign Soriano and add another reliver\

by AlRoBraves95 on Aug 6, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Long term memory....

…it’s a novel idea, try it out. I think Vazquez is great personally. I also think Hudson is great and carried us through a season and a half when Smoltz was hurt all the time as our ace. Hudson did no wrong except get hurt. I say let him work his way back through the bullpen, and make a start in place of KK if KK starts struggling, and see if he can earn the starting spot back.

Let the rest of this season work out before deciding who to trade/let go. If Huddy comes back and dominates for the rest of the season, (I’m talking Godly like numbers), would you still consider letting him go considering his past track record and a dominant couple of months?

Conversely, Huddy could come back and have lost some of his stuff and then the decision becomes easier, keep Vazquez who is doing a great job and let Huddy go.

All this riled up “do this, that’s stupid” talk is completely meaningless and futile at this point.

by tomahawkin108 on Aug 7, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Addition by subtraction?

If that was the real motive, the Braves would just have non-tendered Kotchman following this season. No arbitration, and no commitment for next season. Instead, they traded him for a man they won’t control next year regardless. It’s not like they needed a trade to accomplish this, though.

It just doesn’t make sense to argue that Braves “freed” themselves of the Kotchman burden when they were only obliged to him on a year to year basis. They could easily have waited until the offseason to trade him for pretty much any of a multitude of uninteresting prospects who could have potentially had value beyond this season. There probably would have been deals out there for him that might have brought something back that actually has value.

That’s why I’m confused. I’m under the belief that the difference in value over the last two months of the year between LaRoche and Kotchman is negligible, but Kotchman has value beyond this year.

by Bronn on Aug 5, 2009 9:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

then they would have had absolutely no shot at a draft pick

whereas LaRoche can play himself into type B status. Of course I am of the belief that he’ll be significantly more valuable down the stretch. Kotchman was pretty much playing at his normal level this season and LaRoche is significantly below his so I just figure the potential to be better when he has been worth just about as much this season is worth the risk when it really wouldn’t have made much sense to keep Kotchman around past this season.

by was385 on Aug 5, 2009 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The difference in LaRoche and Kotchman is significant.

Can’t you see that already? This lineup looks so much better with a 1B who’s a power threat in the 5-7 range than a slap doubles guy in the 6/7 hole.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Aug 5, 2009 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m on board that train now…I am cautiously optimistic though. I need to see more than 5 games before I am solidly on board.

"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT

by justincredubil02 on Aug 5, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kotchman is probably slightly superior on defense. I don’t particularly believe in looking at UZR, or any other current fielding metric, to assess first basemen, but Kotchman probably is a bit handier with the glove. And I really don’t see Adam as anything more than a very minor offensive upgrade.

You say the line-up looks better with LaRoche in it, but he’s been getting fairly lucky as well. He did hit a solo home run in a game we lost, and added a double in another game that we lost, but watching the game Tuesday night, he had a broken bat single and a little bloop single that was lucky to fall. In fact, all but two of his hits are singles.

And it’s probably a bit premature to judge that the trade has made a positive impact on the line-up after a mere 5 games.

by Bronn on Aug 5, 2009 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the Braves simply upgraded at the 3 spot because they are within a piss length of a playoff spot. LaRoche is better than Casey

by rocket8188 on Aug 5, 2009 11:05 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think the Braves should try to sign LaRoche to a 3 year deal for around $18-20 million. I don’t know that 20 million would get it done but I think he is worth that much to the Braves. I really believe Freeman is at least two full seasons away from being a regular starter in the majors. LaRoche may get a much larger deal from someone else out there but I think he is a good fit in the Braves clubhouse and his power profile is worth a 3/$20mil deal. If Heyward is ready to start in RF and put up decent power numbers then I think the Braves would be set in the power department next season. That would give them 4-5 guys in the lineup capable of 20+ HR’s. If Freeman is ready before LaRoche’s deal is up then we can always trade LaRoche. A 1B with decent power and a good glove is always a good trade chip. At the very least we should offer LaRoche arbitration.

by KC Ryan on Aug 6, 2009 2:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Isn’t Laroche already getting that kind of money though? I bet he gets a raise on the open market. I agree that he is probably worth 3/20, but what will other teams be willing to pay? That is the real question. The market doesn’t always match up to true value.

"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT

by justincredubil02 on Aug 6, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

who needs a 1B that is going to pay top dollar? I’ve continually heard this insistence that LaRoche will get paid, but by whom, The Mets?

by McCann's the Man on Aug 6, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Practically everyone wants another big bat at 1B, but the real question is who sees Adam AS a bat that can help their line-up.

by Bronn on Aug 6, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly, LaRoche isn’t really an upgrade for contenders and no rebuilding team is going to sign adam

by McCann's the Man on Aug 6, 2009 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LaRoche and 2010

I’ve watched Bobby Cox manage for quite awhile. From that perspective
I can infer that Prado is his 2nd baseman, period. LaRoche is the place holder
for Freeman yet Wren will let Rochey go if he wants more than a 1 year deal.
Another veteran or perhaps Canizares who Bobby was intrigued by as a batter
would then hold the position as Freeman gets a bit more seasoning in the
1st half of 2010.
Heyward would seem to be a lock for RF next year yet might not even face the
pressure of a september call up this year.
Mclouth is more than’good enough’ with his speed and moderate plus power and plus
glove to keep in CF as Schaefer has a lot to prove and to come back from to
reprise the role of heir apparent in CF. Sure we would like more contact from Mclouth
yet you can’t have everything or pay for everything.
Church would be a nice keeper particularly if G Anderson at 37 is allowed to take
his bat elsewhere.
KJ would then be the odd man out. Milan displaced Frank Bolling, Javy Lopez
overcame the 1st rounder Tyler Houston at C. it’s a neat feeling to see the guy who
was unexpected step up when given the chance with sheer grit. baseball!
I generally focus on the present season, yet this year we see an interesting mix of
an improved team that’s not quite there, a couple of talented kids and a veteran(we
won’t be able to keep both Gonzales and Soriano(the $ will go to Soriano)
 away from contention, shades of 1991.

by sealift67 on Aug 6, 2009 8:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

airlift is where it’s at.

:)

"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT

by justincredubil02 on Aug 7, 2009 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ummmmm................

McLouth’s glove is not plus……..it is minus! He profiles well as a corner outfielder but he is definitely a subpar center fielder…..gold glove be damned!

by KC Ryan on Aug 7, 2009 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

this

Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?

by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST

by Swo12bv on Aug 7, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree

he’s not great but he’s definitely not bad (At least this year). He’s seemed pretty average.

by was385 on Aug 7, 2009 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he’s still slightly below average

by McCann's the Man on Aug 7, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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