Atlanta Braves Minor League Recap: 8/20 (Mike Minor Made His Debut)
by yondaime4 on Aug 20, 2009 11:52 PM EDT
in Braves Minor League Recaps
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Gwinnett 11, Norfolk 3
- B. Conrad 3-5 2B, HR(12), 5 RBI
- D. Hernandez 3-5 2 RBI
- B. Barton 2-2 2B, HR(7), 3 RBI, BB
Gwinnett now has the best winning pct. in the International league. These guys just appear to be a complete team with good hitting and solid pitching night in and night out. Barbaro Canizares has seen his AVG drop below .300 for the first time this season. He had a pretty rough July and has actually posted a .613 OPS since the All Star break. I believe he had a falling off similar to this last season as well.
Mobile 2, Mississippi 5
- M. Young 1-4 2B, RBI
- B. Hicks 1-2 HR(8), 2 RBI, BB
- J. Heyward 1-3 BB
- J. Ortegano 6IP 2H 0R 5BB 6K
Mississippi has actually been pretty good in August, going 10-7 so far this month. One thing to like about this slump that Heyward has been in is that his plate discipline has remained strong. In his last 10 games he still has 5 walks and only 4 K. Craig Kimbrel also came in to get the last out of the game (on a strike out of course) and picked up his 5th save in Mississippi and his 17th for the year.
Myrtle Beach 10, Kinston 6
- D. Linares 2-4 2B, HR(10), 4 RBI, BB
- E. Mejia 1-4 HR(1), 2 RBI, 2K
- C. Johnson 1-4 HR(29), BB, 2K
- G. Rodriguez 2-5 HR(8), 2 RBI, 2K
- C. Rohrbough 5IP 4H 3R 4BB 8K
I am going to call this a step forward for Cole Rohrbough. For me he has been the biggest disappointment in the organization this year and I am just happy whenever he has a solid outing with decent components. I know his walks are high but those 8 Ks look nice. Donell Linares has had a hot August with an .837 OPS this month and 7 XBH thus far. I still don't know what will happen with him but he controls the strike zone well and might be finding a bit of pop in his bat.
Charleston 2, Rome 5 - Suspended in 4th due to Rain
- M. Minor 2IP 0H 0R 0BB 2K
- A. Milligan 1-1 2B, 2 RBI
I would call this a successful debut for Mike Minor. I was hoping he would pitch longer, but he hasn't been on the mound since the CWS so I'll excuse it. Also, Adam Milligan keeps hitting.
Greeneville 2, Danville 3
- C. Bethancourt 1-3
- J. Kreke 2-3
- LV Ware 2-3 RBI, 2 SB(21)
- T. Stovall 6IP 2H 2R 4BB 3K
Another wild line from Tyler Stovall who alos threw a wild pitch. The impressive thing here is that none of the top five hitters for the Braves had a hit. David Hale also came on and tossed 3 hitless innings of relief, though he did surrender 3 walks.
GCL Braves 7, GCL Tigers 8 - 13 Innings
- L. Hiller 2B, RBI, 2BB, K
- A. Feliz 3-6 3B, RBI, K
- Z. Spruill 5IP 7H 6R 2BB 5K
Seriously, does anyone know why Zeke Spruill is in the GCL, and why he is getting knocked around?
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Good night for all our teams!
After Tuesdays’ joke of a day, all the teams looked good tonight.
I just really hope either Rohrbough or Minor can become a solid #3 lefty in Atlanta to help out JJ and Hanson in the future. That would be a ton of fun to watch if it happened.
7/24/2009 - "The Phillies are too far ahead in the NL East for the Braves to make a run." - Buster Olney
REMEMBER THAT BOYS.
My money is on Minor. Also there is a good chance that they will teach Hanson to throw lefty so he will be both the 1 and 2 starters.
it wouldnt surprise me. he could probably do it too! there isnt too much that kid cant do.
7/24/2009 - "The Phillies are too far ahead in the NL East for the Braves to make a run." - Buster Olney
REMEMBER THAT BOYS.
by Scott Coleman on Aug 21, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
My dream was to be the first righty/lefty combo pitcher. Sadly, it never happened.
I wonder if someone could ever do it. Having two sore arms probably wouldn’t be a fun thing though.
Pat Vendittie a player in the Yankees’ organization does:
by blitzerlover on Aug 21, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not sure I’ve ever thanked you, personally, for your recaps, Matt, but you really do a hell of a job, man. It’s really cool to be able to get a succinct daily analysis of the farm at the end of every evening.
"When life gives you lemons, just say 'F*ck the lemons,' and bail."
by Bravely going forward on Aug 21, 2009 12:21 AM EDT reply actions
Can we talk for a minute about how hard it is to hit 30 homers in the minors in a season? Wow. The fact that people discount Cody cause of the Ks is amazing to me.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
Don’t get me wrong the HRs are amazing. The problem is people have hit 30 HRs in the minors before, but no one has ever K’d as much as he does and gone on to be successful. Now the thing Cody has going for him is there isn’t a good player to compare him with when Age and ability and level of play are all taken into account, so I still think he has a chance, but I’m not hopeful for AA
I guess I do understand all the doubt, but I personally don’t buy into it. I’m going to go on record with my belief that Cody’s 2010 season in AA will be very good, at least in line with what he’s done before.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
i really have faith in CJ. He’s still really young and has unlimited power. I just think the Braves should move him REALLY slowly.
If it was up to me, Cody would start next season at MB and then get a mid-season call up to Mississippi. In 2011, let him start at Mississippi and then move him up to Gwinnett mid-season. Then see if he’s ready for the bigs in spring training 2012. He’s only 21 now which would set his debut when he’s 24 or so. That’s a lot of time to work out the pretty big holes in his swing.
7/24/2009 - "The Phillies are too far ahead in the NL East for the Braves to make a run." - Buster Olney
REMEMBER THAT BOYS.
by Scott Coleman on Aug 21, 2009 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t put him back in MB, he really doesn’t have anything left to prove there. Sure, his average is low and his Ks are high, but both are in line with what he’s done every other year. He’s earned the promotion to AA next year, and it’s definitely going to be a test.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
+1
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Aug 21, 2009 2:46 AM EDT up reply actions
and let him keep working in AA too imo...
he’s only be 21 next spring, so he can spend some time there and after say two years at AA we can have a better idea of whether his strikeouts can be corrected or not. Plus, after those two years in AA, he’ll only be 23.
The minors have many such hitters who hit 30/40 HRs a year but K about 150+ times. Very few are able to hit ML pitching. Mike Hessman is an example. 14 years in the minors with 307 HRS but over 1800 Ks. When brought up to the MLs, pitchers ate him up. If he can hit AA pitching consistantly I might become a believer. All I can think of, if he was predicted to be a late 2nd or 3rd round pick at best and the Braves took him in the 1st, ahead of a half a dozen outstanding players.
Mike Hessman also never really got a shot at regular playing time. The one time he did, he performed pretty well. Obviously, guys like them who hit for power and K a lot need regular playing time to be successful, something Hessman never got offered.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
The fact that people fall in love with HR’s and ignore everything else amazes me. I mean right now he doesn’t have a single other plus tool, his defense is terrible, his contact is atrocious, and he doesn’t walk at an eye popping rate. Does he have very good potential? Yes and he deserves to be considered a very good hitting prospect but he’s also a prospect that has more flaws than any of the other top prospects in the minor leagues. If he can get his K rate closer to 30% rather than 40%, then I’ll join the fan club
by McCann's the Man on Aug 21, 2009 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions
and thats exactly why i wanna move him so slowly through the system.
we already have Heyward, McLouth, Schafer, Diaz, Church, and possibly a veteran OF we add via F.A. or a trade. Its not like he has to be ready for opening day 2010.
7/24/2009 - "The Phillies are too far ahead in the NL East for the Braves to make a run." - Buster Olney
REMEMBER THAT BOYS.
by Scott Coleman on Aug 21, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions
his defense is terrible
Really? Cause I’ve seen him a number of times, and to me he’s pretty decent out there. Not winning any gold gloves, but far from terrible.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
yeah, and how many LF’s are that great of fielders anyways?
even in little league, high school, college and the bigs, it always seems like the worst fielders are put in LF. Braun, Burrell, Manny, GA, Dunn, Ibanez, Diaz, etc. are all poor fielders.
7/24/2009 - "The Phillies are too far ahead in the NL East for the Braves to make a run." - Buster Olney
REMEMBER THAT BOYS.
by Scott Coleman on Aug 21, 2009 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions
i think MattyD is pretty decent in LF, but he can be a disaster in RF. he just cant throw. he does get credit for doing a good job running down balls in the gap tho.
7/24/2009 - "The Phillies are too far ahead in the NL East for the Braves to make a run." - Buster Olney
REMEMBER THAT BOYS.
by Scott Coleman on Aug 21, 2009 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/4/5/820526/totalzone-on-corner-outfield
It’s -14 not 18 but still, second worst on the list
by McCann's the Man on Aug 21, 2009 2:56 AM EDT up reply actions
He’s been really bad, -18 zone rating last i read, only Matt LaPorta is worse among top OF prospects and he’ll move to first. On the flip side Heyward was +19. And you’re examples were pretty poor considering Diaz and Braun are actually average fielders in Left. Braun couldn’t handle third but he’s fine in the OF. GA used to be a great defender, injuries have cut his range. Manny never gave a crap about his defense. Dunn was a plus defender his first year but with all that bulk he’s become one of the worst, still at least he started out well. Ibanez well he’s a DH through and through though he’s actually been decent this year since Citizen’s is so small. Cody only figures to decline defensively and he’s starting out lower than any of the guys you listed, aka big problem
by McCann's the Man on Aug 21, 2009 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, I give those defensive zone ratings pretty much zero credit, so those number mean nothing. Also, those weren’t my examples. Cody is acceptable in the field. If you haven’t actually seen a kid play, you can’t really make a judgement on something like fielding.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
Cody Johnson
Nobody ever mentions his outfield assists. He has a cannon for an arm. Threw out a runner at home last night and has very few errors. Also, take a look at his team stats. Cody leads in just about every catagory – including walks. Look at his Carolina League stats – has led HR, RBI, SLG and OPS most of the season. He is progressing just as the Braves projected he would and as he continues to mature as a hitter, will do amazing things.
I agree with what you have stated here but somehow I get this distinct impression you are from the Panama City area and may know this young man a little more than most.
My comment wasn’t meant to be an argument, just an observation. I try to keep track of his progress and hope that he continues to develop his skills to the point he will be able to make a significant contribuiton at the ML level one day.
by Mountngrown on Aug 21, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
By the way I am in PC also and one of the guys I work has sons that played with Cody growing up on teams that he coached. That goes for Jaye Chapman as well.
by Mountngrown on Aug 21, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
What’s wrong with UZR? Do you have a preferred fielding metric?
If Dunn walks 30 fewer times, he'll drive in 15 more runs. This is thanks to the scientifically proven formula: RBI = (this is nonsense) (I made it all up).
Here's a stat: Wins as manager: Dusty Baker, 1,162; Bill James, 0.
I don’t delve into hardcore stats like that, but I haven’t seen any of those fielding metrics that carry any weight with me. They’re very helter-skelter. They’ll have a guy being bad one year and great the next and then bad again. Players’ defense doesn’t change that much from year to year, it’s very incremental. I just don’t think you can use some stats to judge something as complex as fielding.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/john_dewan_and_research_assistant_speak/#2
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Aug 21, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
What I got out of that is exactly what I’ve thought all along, those defensive stats mean nothing.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
If the argument above is your only beef with UZR etc. (which Lichtman answers in the article) then I guess you think batting average is useless, also?
If Asdrubal Cabrera can hit 55 points higher this year than in 2008, batting average must be equally inaccurate.
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Aug 21, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Batting average really isn’t all that useful. A guy can have a high average that’s completely hollow. Slugging percentage and on base percentage, and thus OPS, are a lot more telling of what a guy is doing. Average is nice, but if you’re getting a bunch of singles and aren’t fast on the bases, it doesn’t really matter.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
I agree that OPS is a more useful offensive stat. I just used average as an example because I assumed you were a fan. My mistake.
It really doesn’t matter, though, because very few (if any) metrics can stabilize over the course of a season. Check out the changes in JJ Hardy’s and Mark Reynold’s OPS from this year to last.
What Lichtman is saying is that the “true talent” level of these two is probably much closer to the average of the two seasons than to either one because a two season sample size is just way more indicative of true talent. The huge fluctuations from year to year may accurately reflect performance, or may expose flaws in the metric.
Either way, this happens with just about every stat.
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Aug 21, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
UZR has been proven to have a decent correlation to runs saved/prevented. No it’s not a perfect stat but it’s one of if not the best defensive metric out there. And very rarely do guys jump all over the place on UZR, they don’t always put out the same numbers but it’s not completely random like you suggest. Go to beyond the boxscore and read a couple of articles on UZR
by McCann's the Man on Aug 22, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
except every scouting report agrees that he has close to no business being in the field, I think the zone ratings are pretty good actually nobody’s number surprised me. I don’t see why you would discount a credible stat other than you don’t want to believe what it says. It’s certainly not a tell all stat but it basically backs up what i’ve read, he lacks range in left
by McCann's the Man on Aug 22, 2009 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey Matt- what are your thoughts on both Tyler Stovall and J.J. Hoover? Does either one become a solid back end of the rotation guy, or do they become relievers?
Yunel is the Queen of Hearts
Stovall Probably has the higher ceiling while Hoover is the most likely to reach his. Hoover has 4 pitches and honestly reminds me of Tommy Hanson-light. He is a similar pitcher with slightly worse stuff across the board but better control. Hoover probably won’t add much velocity either since he is already 6-4 220-ish Stovall has two excellent pitches (his Curve and Change) but his fastball command is weak and the Braves are working with him this season to get that under control (notice all the walks).
I would say Stovall probably has a ceiling of a #2 but with a lot of work to do while Hoover will probably max out as a #3 if he doesn’t add any more velocity.
how old are Stovall and Hoover? and they’re both righties, right?
7/24/2009 - "The Phillies are too far ahead in the NL East for the Braves to make a run." - Buster Olney
REMEMBER THAT BOYS.
by Scott Coleman on Aug 21, 2009 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions
oh man, i didnt know Stovall was that young. i’d probably take him over Hoover then.
7/24/2009 - "The Phillies are too far ahead in the NL East for the Braves to make a run." - Buster Olney
REMEMBER THAT BOYS.
by Scott Coleman on Aug 21, 2009 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions
maybe Hoover can pull a Chris Wells and be a stud when he comes up at age 26. And dont the Angels have a rookie pitcher whos like 29 and is dealing? i guess there’s always hope for the older guys, but like you said, his age is eventually going to hurt him.
7/24/2009 - "The Phillies are too far ahead in the NL East for the Braves to make a run." - Buster Olney
REMEMBER THAT BOYS.
by Scott Coleman on Aug 21, 2009 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I think
Hoover has to rate higher as a prospect right now.
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Aug 21, 2009 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Hoover’s going to be a bullpen guy imo, impressive K rate and no rotation spot open make it very likely, think Kris Medlen
by McCann's the Man on Aug 21, 2009 2:45 AM EDT up reply actions
First Base
The Braves are going to have some tough decisions to make at first base in the minors next year. Meija is probably ready for AA and G. Rodriguez has been really impressive at The Beach too. The problem is that Freeman and Creek are both probably both going to start the season at Mississippi as well. It’s nice to have this problem but one or two of these guys development may be slowed by being stuck at a lower level for too long.
I don’t think they’re concerned with Greg Creek in any way. Mejia needs to prove he’s healthy, but yes, he probably should be at AA. There’s a decent chance Freeman ends up with Gwinnett to start next season and Rodriguez actually might end up back at the Beach. Like always, the best players will get the playing time and the other guys will fall by the wayside.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
Oh, I agree that the Braves don’t really have any plans for Creek but I would love to see Rodriguez stay at first base. I can’t imagine he is much of an outfielder. I don’t see any scenario in which Freeman starts off next season with Gwinnett……unless they are just trying to keep Freeman and Heyward together. Freeman has been below average thus far at Mississippi.
and he was pitching well in Rome...
it has to be a new pitch by now doesn’t it? If he was hurt, why not just let him rest instead of moving down a level, or if it was an off the field incident the same way, just bench him. New pitch has got to be the answer, doesn’t it?
by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 21, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Off field incident makes no sense, why would that make him struggle so much at the lower level?
by blitzerlover on Aug 21, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
wasn't saying that as an explanation for the struggles...
just the peculiar demotion.
by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 21, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Mechanical
Could be a mechanical adjustment that he is working on and they wanted him to do it in a less pressurized environment.
I wonder…
Does Betancourt start in Rome at 18, like Heyward and Freeman did? It seems like he’s the best catcher we’ve got in rookie ball right now, so that makes sense to me.
Q: If on-base pct is so important then why don't they put it on the scoreboard? -Failcoeur
A: Because the Braves don't want to show their fans how bad you suck.
I'll be in Rome Saturday and Gwinnett Sunday.
I’ll ask around in Roem about Spruill.
As far as Gwinnett, any advice on autographs (cbwilk, I’m looking at you!)? Are the guys available after games outside the clubhouse? What about the visiting team…. we’re going to see Tyler Flowers play again, and I hope to catch up with him after the game. Also looking to get Schafer. Any advice is appreciated!
Never been to Gwinnett
but at each minor league park I’ve been to it’s tremendously easy to que up along one of the baselines and wait until someone of note jogs by. Just call their name, and unless they’re Alcides Escobar they’ll stop and sign your stuff.
Mat Gamel is way too cool for double consonants.
by VivaLosBravos on Aug 21, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry man, I haven’t been there, so I don’t really know how the access is. I’ve heard it’s not ideal for autographs though. But, I’m sure if you go down the line before the game, you’ll find somebody who knows the deal and will help you out. If nothing else, just ask Pope or Sammy or somebody where to go, you know they’ll help you out.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
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