Braves place Nate McLouth on DL, miss golden opportunity to promote the golden boy

by gondeee on Aug 17, 2009 3:47 PM EDT Comment 55 comments

The Atlanta Braves have placed center fielder Nate McLouth on the 15-day disabled list with a sore left hamstring. To take his spot on the 25-man roster, the Braves used this opportunity to call up the top prospect in all of baseball, Jason Heyward... oh wait, no, they didn't. Instead, they added to the 40-man roster and recalled outfielder Reid Gorecki.

Look, I'm happy as a cream puff for Gorecki to finally get the call, but he's a 28-year old journey man minor leaguer with moderate pop, moderate speed, and moderate outfield skills. Is that really the best thing for this team right now. The Braves just spent the weekend struggling to score runs agaist the division leaders, so why not call up someone who might have a real chance to make a major impact and energize this team -- Jason Heyward.

Big opportunity missed, consider this fan disappointed.

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I agree, but not surprised

by SUGMG4 on Aug 17, 2009 3:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

5 bucks says

Heyward wont see any MLB action until 2010.

7/24/2009 - "The Phillies are too far ahead in the NL East for the Braves to make a run." - Buster Olney

REMEMBER THAT BOYS.

by mvhsbball on Aug 17, 2009 3:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I guess you're right

It makes no sense to pass him up here if he was anywhere in our 2009 plans.

Pete Rose was actually banned from baseball for teaching Jeff Francoeur how to play. He made up the gambling stuff to hide his shame.

by VivaLosBravos on Aug 17, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

To me, that’s what this move signifies.

"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Aug 17, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Damn it. I read the 1st part of that and got all excited. Who the hell is the guy we’re bringing up?

by Chesterhighwater on Aug 17, 2009 4:03 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs

$$

No way he comes up until September 1.

by Yakker on Aug 17, 2009 4:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Such a ridiculous thing to consider in decision making

I know that it is a reality in MLB now, but it is still tough. Making the playoffs is equal to approximately $30M additional revenue for the season. We are not saving that much by holding Heyward down.

Obviously Heyward is not the only make or break factor to make the playoffs, but I am damn sure he would help.

by Sid Bream's Moustache on Aug 17, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Disagree

Bringing Heyward up now for an extra 45 ABs means losing an entire year — probably his age 26 year — of controlled service.

Do you really think his first 45 ML ABs will be the difference between a playoff spot and not? Are you willing to bet 600 more productive ABs against that?

by Yakker on Aug 17, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No it doesn't.

You keep him down for the same month next year, and it doesn’t matter at all.

My first argument against socialized healthcare? Yunel Escobar's grill.

by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right, but you have to give back the 45 days somewhere. And I think that if the Braves wait until September 1st, he will not accrue service time in 2009.

If, however, he is placed on the 25-man roster now, he cannot be moved to the 40-man on September 1st, so for 15 days of playing time now you’re sacrificing 45 days of service time.

by Yakker on Aug 17, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

why is that date important? i thought june was the arb clock date.

If Dunn walks 30 fewer times, he'll drive in 15 more runs. This is thanks to the scientifically proven formula: RBI = (this is nonsense) (I made it all up).

Here's a stat: Wins as manager: Dusty Baker, 1,162; Bill James, 0.

by TradeAndruw on Aug 17, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This stuff is tricky, but here’s my understanding (others feel free to chime in if I get it wrong or miss some nuance):

September 1st is the day that MLB expands rosters to allow teams to call up players on the 40-man roster.

Service time accrues based on days on the 25-man roster. If Heyward’s called up now, he has to be moved to the active roster, and he begins accruing service time. If he comes up on September 1st and he doesn’t start 2010 on the active roster (doesn’t get called up until June 1st 2010), the Braves will have bought themselves more time on his service clock.

by Yakker on Aug 17, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The "clock" isn't from the start.

It’s just days served. So if we called him up now, we could just keep him in the minors a bit longer next year.

My first argument against socialized healthcare? Yunel Escobar's grill.

by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That’s only relevant if he’s not starting 2010 in the majors. 45 days won’t make him a Super-Two if he starts the season in the majors next year, nor will it make him a free agent before 2015.

by 17843 on Aug 17, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right

Isn’t that what I said?

If he comes up on September 1st and he doesn’t start 2010 on the active roster (doesn’t get called up until June 1st 2010), the Braves will have bought themselves more time on his service clock.

by Yakker on Aug 17, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wait, what?

Just re-read your message.

So, I think I understand your argument now. However, riddle me this:

— Assume the Braves call Heyward up when the rosters expand on September 1, 2009.

— Start Heyward in AAA in 2010, place him on the 25-man roster on June 1, 2010.

Then the Braves get his 2016 year, right?

by Yakker on Aug 17, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You can't guarantee that.

There is no magical date to avoid Super Two. It’s based on the top 17% of guys with 2+ years of service time. If lots of other young guys make opening day rosters, he could come up sooner. If very few rookies come up early, e could come up in July and it might not matter.

My first argument against socialized healthcare? Yunel Escobar's grill.

by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, come on

No Super Two has had less than two years, 130 days service time any of the last three winters.

In addition, this is a knowable fact, and teams work within this constraint every year. It would be quite simple for the Braves to manage Heyward’s service clock this way.

by Yakker on Aug 17, 2009 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This seems dumb.

Now they’ll be forced to DFA somebody to get Hudson back up. What was the sense in that?

My first argument against socialized healthcare? Yunel Escobar's grill.

by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2009 4:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

We have no evidence that Heyward is capable of contributing any more than Gorecki

http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/

by PWHjort on Aug 17, 2009 4:43 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs

so?

who cares. jason heyward is the man.

by esadb on Aug 17, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Except that he's a hundred times more talented.

My first argument against socialized healthcare? Yunel Escobar's grill.

by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He allows us to avoid the absolute sham of Ryan Church in center field.

by 17843 on Aug 17, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Huh?

Heyward would absolutely not be in center in front of Church. Church is not a great CF by any means, but he’s fine for a backup.

My first argument against socialized healthcare? Yunel Escobar's grill.

by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We also had no evidence

that Tommy Hanson would be a better starter than JoJo Reyes.

Pete Rose was actually banned from baseball for teaching Jeff Francoeur how to play. He made up the gambling stuff to hide his shame.

by VivaLosBravos on Aug 17, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bad analogy. Hanson was already dominating AAA, a level Heyward hasn’t played at.

"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Aug 17, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Huh?

Because AAA=the majors? Why aren’t Charlie Morton and Jo-Jo Reyes frontline starters, then?

My first argument against socialized healthcare? Yunel Escobar's grill.

by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Has everyone lost their minds today?

Look, he was comparing the Hanson/Reyes move to a possible Gorecki/Heyward one. I don’t think it’s an apt comparison and it has nothing to do with Reyes or Gorecki, but with Hanson and Heyward.

You could make an educated guess and say that Hanson would do well in the Majors because he had been playing so well at AAA, the level just below the Majors. You can’t do the same with Heyward, because he’s played a month at AA, two levels below the majors. Hanson also had a year more of professional experience under his belt than Heyward.

The comparison doesn’t work because you could have projected Hanson’s ML ability better based on where he played in the minors and how he played; Heyward hasn’t played at that level, so he certainly hasn’t dominated it, therefor comparing the two in terms of guessing their ability and second guessing their promotion (or lack thereof) doesn’t work.

"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Aug 17, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's not that complicated

Hanson showed prodigious skill in the minor leagues, and had clearly had more talent than a more identifiable but lower upside guy like Reyes. It’s the same story with Heyward. It’s a lot easy to say that Gorecki is a known quantity, and how Heyward projects to the bigs right now is uncertain, but it’s equally obvious that Heyward’s floor and Gorecki’s ceiling are about on par.

And if it is, you’re still wrong, because the AAA and ML levels don’t possess some ethereal quality of which AA is devoid. it’s completely arbitrary to consider AAA performance and dismiss those of the level immediately its junior.

Pete Rose was actually banned from baseball for teaching Jeff Francoeur how to play. He made up the gambling stuff to hide his shame.

by VivaLosBravos on Aug 17, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You’re on a roll today. We’ll talk again in another life, when we’re both cats.

"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Aug 17, 2009 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

can't wait.

Pete Rose was actually banned from baseball for teaching Jeff Francoeur how to play. He made up the gambling stuff to hide his shame.

by VivaLosBravos on Aug 18, 2009 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Reyes

has a 1.98 ERA in three partial seasons in AAA.

Pete Rose was actually banned from baseball for teaching Jeff Francoeur how to play. He made up the gambling stuff to hide his shame.

by VivaLosBravos on Aug 17, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Goreki is also RH which helps our bench a ton.

by graf on Aug 17, 2009 5:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ya'll need to check your sources cuz...

Nate McLouth homered against Arizona in the game which Atlanta is playing as I type.

by Doni S on Aug 17, 2009 5:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Scratch that...

it was LaRoche. My mistake. Carry on.

by Doni S on Aug 17, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good one.

My first argument against socialized healthcare? Yunel Escobar's grill.

by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Guess I was right when I made the new signature line. I’ve never wished so hard that had been wrong.

Shouldn't Reid Gorecki get a shot in RF before that Heyward kid everybody talks about?

by Rhyno18 on Aug 17, 2009 5:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

but I am really happy for Reid

Shouldn't Reid Gorecki get a shot in RF before that Heyward kid everybody talks about?

by Rhyno18 on Aug 17, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Atlanta, hide your daughters!

"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Aug 17, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Atlanta hell, the whole state of Georgia has been fair game since the move to Gwinnett!

Shouldn't Reid Gorecki get a shot in RF before that Heyward kid everybody talks about?

by Rhyno18 on Aug 17, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

CB

hahahahahahaha too damn funny yet its soooooo true

N. Tyler Ayers

by TMAC85 on Aug 17, 2009 6:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

it’s too early for this guy to come up, send him to gwinett for a year and if he murders the league there, then we can have this conversation

by sepulcher on Aug 17, 2009 7:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

And if he hits there, we can send him to Mexico for a year.

It’s like the veteran version of AAA. That way, he’ll be superproven.

My first argument against socialized healthcare? Yunel Escobar's grill.

by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t see the rush to bring the kid up. I’d rather him be getting ABs at Gwinett than sitting the bench in Atlanta.

by kalesi on Aug 17, 2009 10:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If he came up, he wouldn't be sitting on the bench.

My first argument against socialized healthcare? Yunel Escobar's grill.

by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was looking for stats earlier, but didn’t find what I wanted.
My impression is Gorecki has been close to great the last 200 or so ABs in Gwinnett – well over .300 with tons of XBHs.
Anybody got any such data handy?

by fandave on Aug 17, 2009 10:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Month-by-month:

June-.303/.358/.606 (99 ABs)
July-.337/.439/.530 (83 ABs)
August-.338/.370/.485 (68 ABs)

My first argument against socialized healthcare? Yunel Escobar's grill.

by MichaelProcton on Aug 17, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There's not that much of a difference between AAA and AA

The talent level at both levels are quite comparable. AAA squads tend to have journeyman and guys who never stay in the majors, while AA is a haven for hot prospects who are performing.

Saying Hanson was ready because he dominated AAA and Heyward isn’t ready because he hasn’t isn’t a valid argument. The guy has destroyed AA competition, but I do applaud the decision to wait until Sept. 1.

Why'd the Mets, of all teams, have to draft John Maine!?!?

by Ninerballin on Aug 18, 2009 2:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Have you actually watched a lot of AA and AAA games, or are you just regurgitating something you heard someone else say? There’s a huge difference, and anybody who doesn’t think so needs to spend some time at the games.

"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Aug 18, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No one has brought up the fact that Heyward is hitting just .231 in his last 10 games.

by KC Ryan on Aug 18, 2009 3:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Burn the witch!

"Brian McCann will be guest starring as Bizarro in Smallville this fall. See, he has to put his glasses on to become Superman." -by Rhyno18 on Aug 4, 2009 5:52 PM EDT

by Chopaholic on Aug 18, 2009 7:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

She turned me into a newt

I thought hurricane season was over........

by bravesguy311 on Aug 18, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know it's exciting and pardon my French....

…but why do you have such a proverbial hard-on for bringing up Heyward? It seems to me that the front office and coaching staff handled the Hanson and Medlen situations well. I trust them to do the same with Heyward. We all saw what happened with one Jeff Franceour by bringing a guy up too early.

http://hobnailboot.wordpress.com/

by AuditDawg on Aug 18, 2009 1:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Heyward Vs Gordocki should be Heyward Vs Corey Johnson

You often see hitters have better numbers at AAA than AA because the pithcers are around the strikzone a little more and the hitters are seeing more hitable pitches. Is there anyone in here who is aware of a guy named Corey Johnson that we have in A ball Caroline leageue? Plays Center Field and He leads the league in dingers with 29 HR’S 18 2B’s and has 80 RBI 10 SB 358 OBP and slugs 521 886.OPS with a 250 avg in 380 AB’s and the quote from a manager at Myrtle beach who has been at that level coaching for 30 years was this " I have seen Strawberry, Big Mack, Russel Branyon and right on down the line in my years here and this guy has the most power of anyone he has ever seen in that time!!!! Hits the ball further than " ANYONE I HAVE EVER SEEN IN 30 YEARS AT HIS LEVEL" !!!!! Heyward was his teamate earlier this year for 189 AB’s and hit 10 HR’s with a 369 avg and 519 slugging % .888 OPS . The one glarring figure about Corey Johnson is 159 ks in 380 AB’s as oppossed to 39 k’s in 180 AB’s for Heyward. I say cut Greg Norton and let Corey Johnson have 1 pinch hit a game with a few men on. Can you say 3 run homer? That is what the Braves need in the worst way is some power off the bench and Johnson swings the wood with legendary power already. Come on Atlanta and bring up your best guys and let us fight it out the last 40 games with the best we have to offer.

by Brickstone on Aug 19, 2009 12:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Sept 1st callups

Bring up the big cannons and leave the pea shooters behind. We are built for great pitching and the 3 run homerun but we just do not have enough of the 3 run homerun part. When Kelly johnson leads off for you half the season you know you are not a small ball team. When your HR leader only has 15 then you are not a HR team. The Braves need to find an identity and right now they do not know who they are. Bring up Heyward and Corey Johnson and add some thrill and excitement to the stretch. Send Kelly Johnson and Greg Norton down and call up the big two. There is no way these two could hit as bad as Norton and Kelly have hit this year. I would bet my house on it. I would rather see two young pups hit like crap than watch Kelly and Norton kill rallies and slug like a couple of hampsters. Give us something different than the same old failures.

by Brickstone on Aug 19, 2009 12:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs