Doh!
by kalesi on Jul 8, 2009 9:34 AM EDT
86 comments
Watching ESPN this morning and saw the replay of the Angels/Rangers game battling for first place. The highlight showed three big Ranger's hits. One was Andruw Jones' 11th homer. The two others were RBI base hits from Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Elvis Andrus. Guh.
I hate to even say it, but an outfielder with 11 homeruns would be nice right now. I don't think anyone could have foreseen that Jones could have made any kind of turnaround
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Point is that guys that were our players are now making significant contributions to a team in first place. Not that its unheard of for another team’s minor league prospects to turn into productive players for someone else, but the fact that 3/8 position players for the top team in the AL West were under our control two years ago is a bit annoying.
by kalesi on Jul 8, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
3.5/8
Andruw isn’t an everyday starter and when Hamilton comes back, he will lose even more PT.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 8, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oops.
I meant 2.5/8
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 8, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand what you're saying...
But I’ll take McCann & Escobar over Salty & Andrus any day. As for Andruw, he left on his own accord and there weren’t any signs he would turn his awful seasons around. The last thing we needed in the OF is two struggling starters. So, as is, I’m happy with how it turned out.
by beeswax on Jul 8, 2009 10:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I’m off my rocker, but I’d still like to have those bats in the lineup or on the bench.
by kalesi on Jul 8, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think anyone could have foreseen that Jones could have made any kind of turnaround
Actually, several of us did, and wanted Jones to come back.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 8, 2009 10:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Turnaround?
He’s hitting .230. And .200 away from Texas.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 13, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
which is a turnaround compared to what he did in LA! lol
I was speaking more about his power numbers. His OBP is still respectable, even with the low average.
PS – did you get banned for a week or something? Haven’t seen you in forever.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 13, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was down at the beach.
No WiFi out past the dunes. LOL
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 13, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont think Andruw would have turned it around without Jaramillo
I would rather have Mac than Salty now (that may change as salty gets better).
I would rather have Andrus than Yunel.
by esadb on Jul 8, 2009 10:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think Salty will ever be as good as Mac.
And yes, give me Andrus over Yunel.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 8, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No to Andrus over Yunel. He’s been clutch for us all year and leads the team in RBI’s.
Yes to Mac over Salty. Even if Salty becomes a great catcher how can you argue us trading him. Our catcher is about to go to his 4th All-Star game in his first four years.
by Fischerking on Jul 8, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
RBIs?
really? Yunel has been great, but Andrus has way more upside than Yunel. Andrus has more speed and better D with slightly less pop. He also doesn’t struggle from the brain farts that Yunel has from time to time.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 8, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Andrus is about 5 or 6 years younger
by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jul 8, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that too…although, we never know the true ages of those of the Cuban Race…
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 8, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Andrus is from Venezuela..
"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."
by jeg on Jul 8, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yunel is not.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 8, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
although usually cuban players listed ages make them seem younger not older
by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jul 8, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
it was a joke going back to the whole “he is of the cuban race, that is why he has a bad attitude” comment a few days ago.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 8, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh sorry didnt catch that
by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jul 8, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that went right over my head
"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."
by jeg on Jul 8, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Andrus will be an elite defensive SS for the rest of his life.
Perennial GGer. And given that he’s hitting pretty well as a rookie and will likely get better, I’ll take that any day. Escobar ain’t all that young anymore (27.) And yes, none of the lapses we’ve seen more and more frequently from Yunie.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 13, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d take Andrus over Yunel
"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."
by jeg on Jul 8, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We have an outfielder with 14 homeruns....
Official MCM Hater!
We miss you #9.
by gramsey712 on Jul 8, 2009 10:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And Blanco, Diaz, Francouer, and Anderson have a combined 14. You understand the point I’m making. Another outfield power bat, especially one as cheap as Jones right now, would be helpful.
by kalesi on Jul 8, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I don't get the point
If we had kept Andruw, we would not have McLouth. So we would be stuck with Blanco, Diaz, Francouer and Anderson. And Jones.
Official MCM Hater!
We miss you #9.
by gramsey712 on Jul 8, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or are you saying we should go get him?
Official MCM Hater!
We miss you #9.
by gramsey712 on Jul 8, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now you’re off the reservation. Stay with what I said, not what might have happened had we decided to sign Jones. Maybe we go after McClouth, maybe not. The fact is there’s an outfielder out there who we had the opportunity to sign for cheap who’s hitting the ball out of the park.
by kalesi on Jul 8, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would say there are a lot of outfielders out there who we had a chance to sign
And .239 is not exactly hitting the cover off the ball.
Official MCM Hater!
We miss you #9.
by gramsey712 on Jul 8, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"The fact is there’s an outfielder out there who we had the opportunity to sign for cheap"
How do you know this?
And how do you know Wren didn’t try?
by Yakker on Jul 8, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup...
.250 .305 .375 .680
lol.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 8, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Rangers are winning, which means these players are automatically better than ours.
"Ohhhh Shit."-Bobby Cox, 3/28/09
by 10-4 on Jul 8, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so true
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 8, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if the Braves will take a chance on Jones next year he cant be any worse than GA.
Baseball is my life
by That a boy on Jul 8, 2009 2:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m not advocating Salty over Mac or Andrus over Yunel. Had we had all of the above Salty would be a valuable switch hitter off the bench who could give Mac a day off. Up until this current season, our backup catching has been a laughing stock.
Some of you got the point. A first place team is getting major contributions from players we gave them. The guy we got in return is playing for someone else now. That’s all I’m trying to say.
by kalesi on Jul 8, 2009 2:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Give me a break............please!
Salty was never going to be on our big league roster for long. He was a ton more valuable to the Braves as a trading chip. There is a valid debate in baseball as to whether McCann or Mauer is the best catcher in the majors. Because we have maybe the top catcher of this generation Salty was never going to be more than trade fodder for the Braves!
by KC Ryan on Jul 8, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now that's a DOH!
A first place team is getting major contributions from players we gave them
Elvis Andrus ‘09 – .267 / .325 / .369 / .694. That equates to 17 walks, 12 extra base hits, 34 runs, 15 rbi’s and 41 k’s in 225 ab’s. If not for his slick fielding he would have negative value on the year.
Jarrod Saltalamacchia ‘09 – .250 / .305 / .375 / .680. That equates to 20 walks, 15 extra base hits, 27 runs, 20 rbi’s and 62 k’s in 224 ab’s. That’s scary similar to Andrus’ weak line.
Sorry, but that’s not what I consider major contributions. Andrus’ is somewhat understandable as a rookie seeing his first big league action, but his minor league numbers aren’t much better. Salty should have done “something” by now. The fact he is regressing over the last few years is a serious red flag (if the current numbers aren’t concerning enough) and I cannot for the life of me understand why Washington and co. continue to run him out there instead of giving Teagarden a chance.
One last point, and I’m sure someone has already mentioned this, but we didn’t “give” the Rangers Andruw – he chose to go there. That’s probably semantics but my point is he made his choice and has benefited from it for two reasons – The Ballpark at Arlington and Rudy Jaramillo. I seriously doubt he would be putting up the numbers he is if he were anywhere else.
You aren’t the czar of typographic emphasis
by scstrato on Jul 8, 2009 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly we didn’t give the Rangers Andruw Jones. He signed with them of his own accord. I personally think he would have returned for a chance to play for Atlanta had Wren opted to make an offer.
by kalesi on Jul 9, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought we did make an offer – on very similar to what Texas offered, but Andruw opted to go to Texas.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 9, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Andrus is a rookie midde infielder.
And I’d say that hitting line is just fine for that. Add to that that his fielding has not only been “slick,” but among the best of any SS in the majors.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 13, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and they don't play Teagarden because his plate discipline is approximately awful.
He’d get eaten alive playing anything close to everyday.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 13, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Salty would also be much cheaper than Ross came, FWIW
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 13, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The reason Andruw has hit so many home runs is because of where he plays and his hitting coach.
by acie4mvp on Jul 8, 2009 3:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I understand your point...
While those players may not be better than ours, it would have been nice to get more than a 1 year rental in Tex being that those players are helping the Rangers win.
Tell these other people to shut up!
by SupermanWearsBobSander'sPJs on Jul 8, 2009 3:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sweet.
Let’s make this clear: we got half a season of Ron Mahay pitching brilliantly and Brett DeVall with the compensation pick he netted us as a free agent, a full year of Teixeira being his All-Star self, the rights to 2.5 years of Kotchman and reliever prospect Stephen Marek.
So far, the Rangers have one guy from this trade you could argue is helping them win games: Elvis Andrus. Saltalamacchia is a league average bat on his ML career and significantly worse than that this season. He’s also their third best ML-ready catcher eligible guy, so he hurts them doubly. Matt Harrison has certainly given them negative value as a pitcher. Beau Jones is a never-was and Feliz has yet to pitch an inning in the majors while slowing down as he moves up the ladder. I don’t get why people still act as though nothing’s changed…
"A player who conjugates a verb in the first person singular cannot be part of the squad, he has to conjugate the verb in the first person plural. We. We want to conquer. We are going to conquer. Using the word 'I' when you're in a group makes things complicated." ~ Wanderley Luxemburgo, 1999
by ejruiz on Jul 8, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
People believe what they want to, regardless of facts.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 8, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see Salty as their 3rd-best C at all...
And how many 20-year olds even get the chance to “slow down” in AAA at all?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 13, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here We Go Again...
Everyday, the Tex/Mahay trade looks better and better to me. Matt Harrison is currently pitching his way out of major league baseball (5.76 ERA, 1.60 WHIP and 4.65 K/9 in 147 IP), Saltalamacchia’s numbers remind me of Francouer (his power has disappeared for the last two years and his OBP has plummeted this season) and Beau Jones (4.49 ERA, 1.55 WHIP and 9.00 K/9 in 327 IP no higher than AA) looks like an afterthought. Despite Andrus’ sterling defense and proficiency on the basepaths, his bat (.704 OPS in the minors and .694 OPS in the majors) has not come around at all yet and he looks reasonably filled out already. Neftali Feliz still looks great, but not as otherworldly as his scouting reports would indicate and his performance is coming down with every step up the pro baseball ladder. All things considered, I still believe it was a fair trade. You don’t get the package we got in return for these guys without giving up a lot because it’s worth it.
As for Andruw Jones, don’t be fooled by the mirage. He’s hitting .212/.323/.404 on the road and, despite his hot start to July, his numbers have largely been on the decline since his blazing beginning to the season. I’ll gladly take Anderson, McLouth and Diaz instead of Andruw at this point.
"A player who conjugates a verb in the first person singular cannot be part of the squad, he has to conjugate the verb in the first person plural. We. We want to conquer. We are going to conquer. Using the word 'I' when you're in a group makes things complicated." ~ Wanderley Luxemburgo, 1999
by ejruiz on Jul 8, 2009 3:57 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Agree, but I think you’re selling Andrus short. He still very very young, and is holding his own in the majors. Feliz and Andrus is a pretty good deal for Texas. All in all I think it was a fairly even exchange.
by soup du jour on Jul 9, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Although at the time I wondered if Salty had any possible viability as a convert to first base. His offensive regression since then notwithstanding, the guy is a 6’4 switch-hitter who had the supposed capabilities to be a power bat. Not that it’ll particularly matter if he keeps putting up the numbers of a leadoff-type middle infielder minus the speed, but if he can turn it around with the bat I wonder if he’d be given a similar opportunity at 1st if Blalock leaves eventually (Chris Davis to 3rd, Teagarden to catch). But then again, this isn’t a Rangers blog, just thinking out loud.
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jul 9, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 about F/A
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 13, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Andrus can even improve to a 750 OPS...
He’ll be a top 10 SS, because his defense will be be the best in the league or very near to it.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 13, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One More Thing.
With McCann and Ross, where’s the room for Salty and is anyone really missing him?
"A player who conjugates a verb in the first person singular cannot be part of the squad, he has to conjugate the verb in the first person plural. We. We want to conquer. We are going to conquer. Using the word 'I' when you're in a group makes things complicated." ~ Wanderley Luxemburgo, 1999
by ejruiz on Jul 8, 2009 4:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think the only legitimate, non-sour grapes argument that can be made was made by 17843 recently. He (I"m assuming “he”, cuz I’ve never met “him”) stated that the exchange of players was fair, but the resources that we used to land Tex should have been used to acquire a starting pitcher of similar quality. Tex did what he was supposed to do (as did Mahay), there just wasn’t enough starting pitching to make his performance matter (in terms of W/L).
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
by buzzdeadwax on Jul 8, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
as far as Im concerned that is the only argument in reference to the Teixiera trade that holds any water and is worth debating at all.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Jul 8, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very true
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 8, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jul 9, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, Ross is a great backup acquisition right now. However, I have a hard time believing Salty would have been less effective than Pena or Miller the past couple years.
by kalesi on Jul 9, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
With Salty...
We don’t have to go out and spend $2 mil a year on a position that plays once a week, if that.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 13, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
SSDD.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Jul 8, 2009 4:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i swear to god … i thought the Tex blabbering had stopped and then all the sudden its like friggin groundhog’s day
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Jul 8, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
While we’re at it, that Adam Wainright guy is pretty Ok.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Jul 8, 2009 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It happened 2 years ago, get over it folks.
by bigjoe on Jul 8, 2009 6:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It’d be a much better use of our time to complain about drafting Francoeur over Cain.
by Lennox on Jul 8, 2009 7:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Or drafting him over anyone (or anything) else…or just drafting him instead of not drafting him.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 8, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We should have drafted him
and then not signed him and then gotten a compensation pick. And if he wanted to sign, we should have stuffed him in a bus heading to Clemson. And if they rescinded his football scholarship, we should have payed up the money for him to continue playing football instead of baseball.
by Bronn on Jul 8, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get the humor, but the nerd in me won’t let me not mention that there wasn’t any compensation for not signing a first round pick back then.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Jul 9, 2009 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they did that, they’d have the 24 pick in the 2003 draft…and a Georgia player was on the board then.
Matt Murton. Not much of an upgrade
by bigjoe on Jul 9, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sigh.
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jul 9, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We drafted Francouer over McCann, but luckily for some reason Heap fell to us in the next round. Talk about a screwup that could have been.
"Ohhhh Shit."-Bobby Cox, 3/28/09
by 10-4 on Jul 9, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Andruw hit 3 bombs in his first 3 ABs today. I know I wanted to sign him. Oh well.
People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.
by mvandonsel on Jul 9, 2009 12:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
His BA is on par with Frenchy but with 10 more homers. Oh, and he’s making 500k this season.
I’m not trying to re-do history. Jones played his way out of Atlanta. However, we could use a low avg. high homer bopper right now.
by kalesi on Jul 9, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
We could use another low BA OF?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 13, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was incredibly opposed to signing him, and admit that he might’ve been a good gamble. But I still don’t think he would have nearly the same production in Atlanta as he does in Texas now.
by soup du jour on Jul 9, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s probably true. For what it’s worth, the four homers he hit in the past two games were in Anaheim, not Arlington.
by kalesi on Jul 9, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where were all the told-ya-so guys back in June when Andruw went 170/224/415??
by Yakker on Jul 9, 2009 12:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
sitting in their basements just waiting on July to get here.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 9, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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