Vazquez's All Star snub statistically foolish

by VivaLosBravos on Jul 5, 2009 10:54 PM EDT Comment 31 comments

Although a 5-7 record rarely merits all star consideration, the omission of Javier Vazquez from the Midsummer Classic is still a little puzzling.

As impressed as I have been with Javy this year, I did a little digging and discovered that Vazquez has a lower FIP and more strikeouts this year than every starting pitcher on the National League squad with the exception of Tim Lincecum, who will likely start the game for the Senior Circuit.

Here's a look at what Javy's done compared to the 8 SPs who were fortunate enough to make the roster:

Javier Vazquez, ATL, 2.55/ 130

Johan Santana, NYM, 3.71/ 104
Jason Marquis, COL, 4.19/ 51
Ted Lilly, CHC, 4.00/ 88
Josh Johnson, FLA, 2.92/ 97
Dan Haren, ARI, 2.76/ 113
Matt Cain, SFG, 3.95/ 88
Chad Billingsley, LAD, 3.27/ 110
Tim Lincecum, SFG, 1.96/ 141

Clearly Timmy is head and shoulders above the rest of this group, but Javy comfortably ranks second in both of these categories, which I consider two of the most important in evaluating a pitcher's performance. I understand guys like Lilly and Marquis are the only representative from their respective teams, but it's hard to understand how those concerned could shut out a pitcher that has had as dominant a first half as Mr. Vazquez.

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My bad

Overlooked Hawpe, Marquis’ presence is now a total mystery to me.

by VivaLosBravos on Jul 5, 2009 10:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah.

Lilly has been the most valuable Cubs, at least…

"A player who conjugates a verb in the first person singular cannot be part of the squad, he has to conjugate the verb in the first person plural. We. We want to conquer. We are going to conquer. Using the word 'I' when you're in a group makes things complicated." ~ Wanderley Luxemburgo, 1999

by ejruiz on Jul 5, 2009 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh No...

Wins. He’s the NL’s Tim Wakefield…

by ejruiz on Jul 5, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah i said this in another thread about it crazy that Marquis got the spot over Vaz. I saw on ESPN they said how Marquis had 10 wins and impressed by it or some shit like that lol. Wow he has 10 wins he is clearly the best pitcher lol.

braves#1

by rockybull on Jul 5, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah they said the same thing about how amazing Wakefield had been, with 9 wins after he beat us. Like honestly, can you not look past this, even if just to ERA/SO?

by acie4mvp on Jul 6, 2009 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He is winning games and Javy is not but still him over javy is ridiculous

by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jul 6, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

lolololololololJasonMarquislololololololol

by VictorW on Jul 6, 2009 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well.

I go by VORP, so I think that Haren, Lincecum, Cain and Johnson are more deserving. By that same metric, the biggest snub on the NL pitching staff was actually Yovanni Gallardo. Others with similarly valid gripes like Javy’s would be Johnny Cueto, Zack Duke and our own Jair Jurrjens. I think I’ll have a full FanPost about the All-Star Game selections, but it goes without saying that there were plenty of lapses on both squads.

by ejruiz on Jul 5, 2009 11:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

FIP is unkind to Yovani

Due to high BB and HR rates. I look forward to your post.

by VivaLosBravos on Jul 5, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

TY.

Thanks for getting the ball rolling on this stuff. I prefer bitching about All-Star snubs than I do actually watching the “game”.

by ejruiz on Jul 5, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

All-Star games are just popularity contests in every sport. If you’re going to make it count, then don’t let the fans vote. That’s my view.
Also in agreement on Yovanni. He has been phenomenal, even in the mainstream stats, with a 2.75 ERA, 8 wins, and 114 SO. WTF? That’s why you don’t play in Wisconsin

by acie4mvp on Jul 6, 2009 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well...

The fans didn’t vote for the pitchers and there seems to be a bigger mess there than with the hitters…

by ejruiz on Jul 6, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hitting mess

The NL has four first basemen…
The fact that the All-Star game counts is a joke. Of course my opinion may be influenced by the fact that the NL gets beat by the AL every year.

by CornerThug on Jul 7, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I dont know if I am more pissed about Javy not making the All star team or more upset at the fact that our offense has just sucked when he has pitched. Poor Javy if Wren doesnt trade him before the deadline I am pretty sure he will trade his self.

Baseball is my life

by That a boy on Jul 5, 2009 11:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You obviously don't know a thing about baseball.

Wins tell everything about a pitcher.

Oh, Bobby.

by sdp on Jul 5, 2009 11:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Pet Peeves.

What the hell is it about pitchers and quarterbacks that makes people believe that they deserve individual W-L records? And what age are we in when these still seem to matter as much as they do? Oh, I got your sarcasm, by the way, I just thought our points we similar enough that I could reply to yours to keep this thread tiddy.

by ejruiz on Jul 6, 2009 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess because

You have to be pretty good to when a lot and to lose rarely.

by esadb on Jul 6, 2009 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah there’s no way you can have a sub-3.00 ERA and a losing record. Oh wait

by acie4mvp on Jul 6, 2009 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But thats not what I said.

Theres no one who has a 5+ ERA and is 10-1. You have to be good to have that record, which is what I said.

by esadb on Jul 6, 2009 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kevin Slowey is 10-3 with a 4.86 ERA at present.
Matt Palmer is 7-1 with a 4.86 ERA at present.

Neither has pitched particularly well and both have outstanding winning percentages. These are just two examples from one season… so it seems that you don’t have to be good to have a good record.

"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."

by jeg on Jul 6, 2009 3:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kevin Slowey hasn't been as bad as his ERA says.

4.20 FIP
.352 BABIP

I wouldnt says thats too bad, but its a good point.

by esadb on Jul 6, 2009 3:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

His last two outings sent his ERA on the climb. There are many guys in years past who have won 15 games with ERA’s over 4.60, Beckett, Mussina, etc.. Correlation, no causation.

"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."

by jeg on Jul 6, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

One Name

John Garland.

"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 6, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Your run support has to be good to have that record

Fixed!

by VictorW on Jul 6, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't totally disregard W/L

I love 31 for his 2 loss ‘95 season. It’s a number that helps indicate how freakishly good he was that year.

by VivaLosBravos on Jul 6, 2009 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

2009 Atlanta Braves Motto: We ♥ leaving RISP.

by mvhsbball on Jul 6, 2009 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's no longer an All Star Game

I will only watch the last couple of innings just in case Mac gets in. If he were not in it, I would not waste my time on even a couple of innings!

by HEYJUDE on Jul 6, 2009 2:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You wont watch it just because he's not in it?

by esadb on Jul 6, 2009 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i look at the bright side of things…. Its great that Mac isnt the starter. Soto and Martin caught about 6 innings each last year (somethign along those lines) and thats 6 extra innings on a catcher can be a big deal at the end of the year. Mac practically had a 3 -4 day break (as he caught one inning at the end of the AS).

Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?

by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST

by Swo12bv on Jul 6, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs