Rosterbation/Trade Speculation and Ideas
by drumzalicious on Jul 4, 2009 9:40 PM EDT
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I noticed the other one got closed and you can no longer comment on it so to keep things from going crazy again a new one?
So according to DOB the Bobby and Wren were in a meeting the other day for an hour or so. Possibly speculating various trades or what not to trade etc.
We have two "Chips" that seem to be coming up a lot lately
Escobar (SS)
Vazquez (SP)
Thoughts on any possible trade ideas and rumors ?
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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Sounds good
But I don’t think it will ever happen…..Maybe Yunel and Vaz for Holliday?? Maybe???
Roll Tide Roll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Sabanholic on Jul 11, 2009 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
A's
have no need for Vaz. Esco alone is too much IMO
by drumzalicious on Jul 11, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Not Happening!
Besides the way Cox and Wren went on about wanting Vasquez at the beginning of the year,to trade him now would make them both look like bald face liars.Vasquez has had a good year so far,if the Braves would have scored more he would have a much better record.The pitching has had the Braves in the thick of things all year to trade from it now would be wrong.I know Hudson is due to return soon but there’s no promise he’s going to have the same success Vasquez has had.I think Yunel will be the guy to go beibg he’s so cheap,plus he has gotten under the skin of Cox and Braves brass.
I'm sure this has already been discussed elsewhere, but
The thing with Vasquez is that realistically the braves as they are now aren’t likely to be contenders for the WS title during the rest of his contract (this year and next year).
Yes, if things keep clicking like they have been recently they can certainly make the playoffs, but that’s about it.
Because of this, the Braves are in a good situation to sell high on a good pitcher who may or may not regress later in the season or next year.
I think the reason they are discussing trading him is to fill out the team for the 2010 and beyond window.
Contenders for the WS
all anyone has to do is make the playoffs. After that, all bets are off. If we can win our division (which with this current roster we certainly can do) we have as good a shot as anyone at the WS – maybe even better considering how important good pitching is in the playoffs.
I have yet to understand why people say this team cannot contend.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 5, 2009 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions
You know, you usually have to give up something you wanted at one point in a trade.
Trading them for good value doesn’t make them liars, it makes them prudent executives.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 14, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
It would be incredibly stupid to trade Vazquez or Escobar unless we got a bat like a Braun or somethin like that and i just dont see that happenin. I mean Vaz is our best SP right now, i mean who the hell trades there best SP and your tryin to make it to the playoffs? You dont see the Mets tryin to trade Santana. Doesn’t matter if the team has depth at SP or not, still stupid. Same with Escobar this guy is a top SS. He is young, cheap, good, his defense is one of the best in the game at SS, his offense is above average. I mean what are we gonna get for him? I mean its gonna be tough to get a good young valuable OF and then get an average SS for Escobar. Im not sayin teams wouldn’t do that im just sayin its gonna be tough for us to get exaclty what we want to trade him. I personally love his fire, he knows how to play the game. If Bobby Cox doesn’t like his Frosted Tips or whatever they are then he needs to leave at the end of the year. He is an old school guy and thats fine but there is a new school happenin now, more and more are not doin like the old school is doin thats just facts, he is just gonna have to accept that, no reason to trade Escobar, i dont see us gettin enough value for him or Vaz. No reason to trade just for the hell of it. Cox NEEDS to learn when Gonzo doesn’t have it and have somebody replace his ass before its too damn late and the damage already happened. That hurts the team wayyyyy worst than Escobars stupid Frosted Tips.
braves#1
u do realize it has absolutely nothing to do with his hair. its the fact that he routinely shows up pitchers and the other team. By being too showy in the batters box and on the on deck circle. He is also apparently a bit of a prima dona. His hair may be a symbol of these things, but its certainly not the reason the coaches are upset with him.
I dont disagree that its stupid to trade him, over this (especially int he middle of the season).
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
I know its not ONLY because of the hair lol, but like you said its a symbol. I dont see that big of a deal that he does his bat the way he does, i like it, i dont see nothin wrong with nothin that he does, i like it. I dont believe he is NEARLY as bad as a Manny Ramirez or somebody like that. Manny i think is just flat out selfish and a prick. I think Yunel knows that he is good and shows alot of fire while he plays. I really like how he plays.
braves#1
i dont see nothin wrong with nothin that he does,
So you DO see something wrong with it?
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 6, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
No, i dont see anything wrong with what Escobar does. He shows fire, so what? I like it, i really dont think he is tryin to show up the opposing team, thats just the way he plays. Im fine with him.
braves#1
How is he showing off? The bat flip? so what? I have yet to see anything he has done to be disrespectful. Didn’t Bret Boone have a bat flip especially in those great years with Seattle? Nobody complained about that, thats not showin off in my opinion. What you want every single player to act just like each other and be damn Zombies? Well for over 10 years the braves were that, this team needs fire, and Escobar brings it. I see NOTHIN that he does to be disrespectful to the pitcher, he doesn’t pose like Bonds did after a homer, he doesn’t do that crap like Manny and Bonds and others, this is his fire, this is how he PLAYS the game. What is so bad about that?
braves#1
Did you see the bare handed play tonight?
Totally unnecessary. Just showing off, he had plenty of time to do it right. Stuff like that and the errors are what make people mad.
How is he showing fire? The why I see it, he could really care less about the game, as long as he looks good doing it. (not getting errors, looking flashy making a play) How many of these boneheaded plays would go away if he had this ‘fire’ of which you speak.
Agree.....
I think Esco is one of the best SS in the NL. Only Hanley and maybe Reyes are better. He’s hitting close to .300 this year and is on pace I believe for 80 RBI’s this year and 15 HR. He’s playing incrediable defense.(Did you see him in Chicago?) When you trade a talent like that you need to be able to replace him. From what I know we dont have any body in the minor waiting in the wing. He’s an all-star in 2 years.
JV has been by far maybe the best pitcher we had in the first half and JJ was second(Not Jo-Jo). Like Rockybull said, we went hard for JV and also traded away one of our best catchers in the system in Flowers to the WhiteSox and now to turn around and trade him when were only 4 games back in a weak division? Dont get me wrong, if there’s a Carlos Lee, Adam Dunn, Jermaine Dye( I doubt) pull the trigger. Only make the move if it’s for a HUGE bat. Everyone is saying we got Hudson coming back but he has an option of $12M..I say let Hudson go, and use that money for a bat for next season. Kawakami is pretty good competitor and is filling in pretty nicely. KEEP ESCOBAR!
There is no way we are letting Hudson go. There is just no possible way to let him go. I’m not saying that he will be making 12M next season, but he’s not going anywhere.
As for Escobar, I think he is going to be one of those players that you have to put in his place from time to time. I think he lacks focus sometimes, and his full of himself a bit. But he is a damn good player, who is very cheap. I would love to get him in the playoffs. I think he would go crazy good for us.
I don’t want to trade Vazquez at all. I know that he would probably land us a solid bat but he is the only true strike out pitcher that we have. Hanson will eventually be that guy but he isn’t yet. I would have no problem trading Escobar but without a replacement that isn’t very smart. I guess Hernandez or Infante could take the spot but they aren’t long term replacements. I think the bigger issue with trying to trade for a impact bat this year might be the lack of them available and the amount of teams looking. I would stay away from Holliday, he has been unimpressive in Oakland and would be about the same in Atlanta.
I wonder if trading JV would scare off future free agents?
Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one around here who gives a s#!t about the rules?!?
Valid
I think you’re right man,Cox and Wren went on and on about how much they wanted Vasquez and he’s doing just fine ,he would be even better with better run support.If we trade him now that wouldn’t look to good and how would you explain such a move to Vasquez.I say don’t trade him we need good pitching and he’s a good one for us this year.
They do not...
want to trade Vasquez. Wren had too many open questions with the staff and decided they may all turn negative, so he went long pitching to start the year. Hanson could have been a bust. KK was an unknown. JJ could have been a one year wonder, and Hudson may not have been able to return in 2009. None of that has turned out to be the case. Of that group, Javy has the most trade value without giving up the future. KK would not bring as much. Lowe might, but his number is pretty big and could scare somes teams away. Hudson has the injury issue risk that lowers his value.
by mikie baseball on Jul 5, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
With Anderson doin good now i wouldn’t mind goin with a Anderson in Left against righties, Diaz in Right against Lefties, and Frenchy in there against Lefties. So this is how it looks:
Against Lefties:
Frenchy – RF
Diaz – LF
Against Righties:
Anderson in LF
Diaz in RF
You know i wouldn’t mind seein somethin like that at least for a few weeks and see how they perform like this. The Braves FO can evaluate how they perform and if they do not like it enough and can get a better replacement in RF then fine, but this cant hurt.
braves#1
Agreed...
plus the few weeks buys some time to see how Hudson is coming along. I think that is what is going on right now. That said, if Hudson seems to be on track for mid August, trading one of those two makes sense from both a baseball sense and a money standpoint.
by mikie baseball on Jul 5, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
As far as Vazquez goes, call the Dodgers and start the conversation with Matt Kemp. LA is also looking for a reliever. Send them Moylan and Vazquez for Kemp, Ivan DeJesus Jr, and possibly but probably not another prospect.
Now, you have a significant upgrade in the OF as well as a ML ready SS in DeJesus. We then could deal Escobar for a young reliever (Boston has this) and a prospect (and this).
"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."
Thats this year… good point
"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."
by jeg on Jul 5, 2009 2:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I have a feeling that Matt Kemp is untouchable. Adding in a pretty good looking SS prospect (I don’t know much about him, but his stats are good), I’m pretty sure there is no way we could get them for Vazquez and Moylan.
Maybe if we replaced Moylan with one of Soriano and Gonzalez, especially since we won’t be able to keep them both this offseason. But I seriously doubt this deal could ever happen. It would be good though.
I don’t exactly know much about the Dodgers but there have been rumblings as recently as last season that the organization wasn’t sold on him as having a long-term future there. I’m not sure if the perception has changed but I’ve heard it suggested multiple times.
"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."
by jeg on Jul 6, 2009 3:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Are you talking about Kemp or DeJesus? I don’t really know anything about the organization either, but the way Kemp is hitting and the way the Dodgers are playing, I don’t know how eager they will be to make a trade midseason. Although I do remember seeing a game where Kemp was batting 9th, which makes absolutely 0 sense.
I was referring to Kemp
"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."
by jeg on Jul 6, 2009 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I would love to get kemp and the dodgers might just trade him for Javy
by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jul 8, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
like I said way back in April....
if a move is to be made, the best fit is Texas because they really need some impact starting pitching NOW and they are actually in a real divisional race with LA. They are in more of a race then we were when we gave them keys to the farm for Texeria. I think this gives us some real leverage especially with a guy like Vasquez as he is a strikeout pitcher (the best kind for their home ballpark).
I really love Vasquez but he could really make a true trade impact. I think we could still wrestle away Nelson Cruz and some top level prospects for Vasquez. Not only does that clear significant payroll but gives us a powerful, young, inexpensive, right handed bat for the outfield but also sets us up for another trade if that still isn’t enough with the prospects and payroll flexibility. If Cruz is enough, we will go into the offseason with Cruz and enough money left to sign another free agent.
Losing Vasquez would be the loss of a very talented starting pitcher now but at the same time, gives us a real shot in the arm in the short and long term.
What good is a shot in the arm
when you deal away your arm?
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 5, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
why do you think that Vasquez is the only pitcher we have? Some people need to open their eyes a little and realize that we have four quality starters outside of Vasquez at the very least ( not even contemplating the return of Hudson or the further development of Medlen). We trade one of our five quality starters and people are ready to jump off a building because pitching is our strength right now . Of course it is, thats why we are looking to trade from a strength to balance a weakness.
Did you think we would get anything for the weak players we have?
I think everyone knows Vazquez is the only trade able pitcher. Lowe is struggling, older, and signed to a big contract, Jurrjens and Hanson are giant assets that we can’t afford to trade, and Kawakami is an unknown value-wise. Vazquez has a ton of surplus value, is a known quantity, and isn’t a part of out future core.
If we make a trade, I would base it around our young pitching depth.
I’ll also add that in Perrotto’s column at BP.com today, he suggested that Bobby is growing frustrated with Yunel and we’re attempting to move him because of that. If so, it’s time for Bobby to step down. If we’re going to trade essentially our third best position player and a part of our future core because of the manager, it’s time for the manager to go.
Disagree. Bobby's right.
Yunel’s bat can be replaced…easily, but more importantly, Escobar’s ‘mental mistakes’ have cost us at least 3 games this season, maybe more. Admittedly, he has shown better attention in recent games, since Bobby benched him.
this
a player like Yunel is not easily replaced.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 8, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
temjin
“why do you think that Vasquez is the only pitcher we have? Some people need to open their eyes a little and realize that we have four quality starters outside of Vasquez at the very least ( not even contemplating the return of Hudson or the further development of Medlen).”
Well the fact is he has been our BEST starter this season. Yes we have some other quality starters but what is stronger in the postseason a roation of Vaz, Lowe, Jurrjens, and Hanson/Hudson/Kawakami or Lowe, Jurrjens, Hanson, Hudson/Kawakami? I think its pretty evident which is best. And yes i realize you gotta make the playoffs first but trading our best starter is gonna be sooooooooo great for us? I mean what good team trades there best SP? You dont see the Mets tryin to trade Santana. You need to open YOUR eyes.
braves#1
Yes, that.
You said what I was trying to say.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 5, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d argue the difference between Santana and whoever the Mets could replace him with is larger than the gap between Vazquez and Reyes/Hudson. And Santana’s contract is difficult to trade. It’s definitely an apples/oranges situation.
You said the most important thing, to win the World Series, you gotta make the playoffs first. In a short series the difference between those two rotations is fairly small. However, if we could add a big bat for Vazquez, the difference of having such a player for 2-3 months could put us in the playoffs.
It all depends who that big bat is man. All im sayin is i dont see us gettin a Braun type bat for him. Im not countin Holliday cause he isn’t really doin all that this year. I have heard of like Hart and people like that. You know i am prolly one of the biggest Hart fans on here but man he isn’t the big bat either, he isn’t a HUGE upgrade he isn’t worth Vaz in my view. If you have suggestions of who the big time bats we could get then i would like to see it and if that team would trade those guys, then maybe you would get me to change my mind. I just dont see us gettin a Huge bat for Vaz thats just my view of it though.
braves#1
You’re focusing too much on 1 for 1 deals. Sure, Hart is too little for Vazquez on his own, but the Brewers have a decent system with up the middle guys like Escobar and Lawrie who would fit well in a deal. Even with Hart being a not very good player, he’s basically a two win upgrade from Francoeur over the rest of the season and we’d control him for the next two seasons in arbitration. Probably most importantly, he’d cost ~$1.5-2 million for the rest of the season.
That’s the thing with us; our production from right field has been so abysmal we can add an average player and gain as much benefit as if we’d replaced an average player with an all-star. Replacing Francoeur eliminates our last black hole from the lineup; that has benefits not readily apparent just from looking at a stat line.
ok so your sayin somethin like Hart and Escobar or Lawrie for Vaz? Then perhaps tradin Yunel Escobar for a SP? If thats what your sayin then fine but im just maken sure thats what your sayin. Now if your sayin Hart and Escobar for Yunel and Vaz then thats not worth it, it all depends what you mean, just a lil confused, tryin to make sense of this. Maybe what your sayin is we keep Yunel and slide the Alcides Escobar to 2B or to AAA the rest of the year. But i dont think they really have another good SS spec close to the majors so i doubt they trade Alcides, i dont know man it just seems shady with this. Its one thing us talkin about it, but would the other teams talkin to ATL do this? We shall see.
braves#1
I think what you would see is a deal more like this
Brewers get Javier Vasquez and Kelly Johnson
Braves get Corey Hart, Brett Lawrie, and a A or AA pitching prospect.
this deal gets both sides something that they need, the brewers get a SP and a 2nd baseman that can play or be a bench bat til weeks is back next year.
the braves get a RF who even having a career worst year is leaps and bounds better than FYF, they also get a nice power hitting kid that is playing 2B right now but will eventually be a 3B in the big leagues, the brewers are also nicely stacked with quality arms in the lower minor leagues, it will help out both squads.
we could then trade FYF to the Royals for a PTBNL or a bag of range balls
ehhhh....
i still dont see how that really helps us too much. I mean we trade our best SP for a solid RF. What you gain from offense you lose on your pitching staff. Just doesn’t seem logical to me, we will see if Wren thinks the same way or not.
braves#1
They have Hardy who is an all-star level talent who plays fantastic defense and has a nice bat.
I wouldn’t trade Escobar unless the return was commensurate with trading four years of a 3 WAR shortstop. Those don’t grow on trees. Escobar’s certainly not rotting at AAA. I also wouldn’t trade Kelly Johnsoneither. Not while his perceived value has cratered and he’s on the DL.
Yeah i know they have Hardy but he is gettin close to FA, and if he hits FA anything can happen. And yeah i know how good Hardy is lol. I wouldn’t trade Yunel either, i dont think we will get fair value for him. Now if we could get Alcides Escobar AND Hart for Vazquez then you have me thinkin but i dont see that happenin. That would leave us with a future SS for next year and give us the WHOLE offseason to get somethin good for Yunel Escobar unless we wanted to keep BOTH Escobars, Yunel at SS and Alcides at second, that could work. Somethin like that is about the only way i would trade Vaz. Because we cant get one great bat like Braun for him so we would have to get somethin like Alcides Escobar and Hart for Vaz. That would definately have me thinkin thats for sure but i dont really think the Brew Crew would do it.
braves#1
“Witrado notes Gamel and Alcides Escobar are untouchable. “So to pull off a deal and keep the organization’s two best prospects, a big-league player would probably have to be involved,” says Witrado."
Thats from mlbtraderumors so if thats true then they dont have enough to get Vaz, so that throws that little thing out of here. And i dont care about gettin Lawrie, i like him but we are tryin to win now and just Hart for Vaz does us NO good for THIS year.
braves#1
I’m undecided on this issue, but just to play the devil’s advocate:
1. You think that we are going to reach the postseason with this team? It’s a solid team that has future potential but we very much need a good outfield bat in order to have a shot at the playoffs this year. To get something good, we are going to have to give up something good.
2. What rotation is stronger in the postseason? Vazquez playoff line: 4 G (2 GS), 1-1 (win came in relief), 10.34 ERA (18 ER), longest start: 5 innings, 15.2 IP, 10 BB, 18 SO, 2.17 WHIP, 13.8 H/9, 2.3 HR/9, 5.7 BB/9, 10.3 SO/9, 1.80 BB/SO
Obviously you would like to keep Javy, but if he could bring in a great hitter, its something the FO would have to consider. However, I don’t think they will trade him considering how infatuated the FO and Bobby are with him.
Hell yes if we could get a “GREAT” hitter for Vaz IM ALL FOR IT, but thats the whole issue here, i dont see us gettin that.
“Vazquez playoff line: 4 G (2 GS), 1-1 (win came in relief), 10.34 ERA (18 ER), longest start: 5 innings, 15.2 IP, 10 BB, 18 SO, 2.17 WHIP, 13.8 H/9, 2.3 HR/9, 5.7 BB/9, 10.3 SO/9, 1.80 BB/SO”
And that means what now? He is havin a terrific season i would throw those numbers out the door, they mean nothin in the PRESENT.
braves#1
Right, like I said I would much rather keep Vazquez and I think that playoff stats are pretty random. I was just trying to take the position of somebody who would like to trade Javy.
Santana got traded once already, remember?
I would also add that in the postseason, a Lowe Jurrjens and maybe Hanson (or Hudson) is not all that much worse than Lowe, Jurrjens, Vasquez. If Vasquez pitched every game, then your point is well taken but he doesn’t. I am not saying we absolutely must give up Vasquez but it makes the most sense IF we want a real impact player.
An impact player will play everyday and contribute to every game which is why I feel the obsolete offense we trot out for every game is hurting us worse than having a marginally better chance to win every fifth day.
WTF are you talkin about?
Do you even know? Ummmm yes i know that Santana was already traded, but that was because the TWINS COULD NOT AFFORD HIM ONCE HE HIT FREE AGENCY AND GETTIN SOMETHIN FOR HIM IS BETTER THAN NOTHIN. I said this: “You dont see the Mets tryin to trade Santana.” So i said Mets smart guy, learn to read it helps in life.
And PLEASE tell me what impact bat we are gonna get? Please i want you to tell me. And dont say a good player from a team that is not competin right now, and say a team that would prolly trade this so called “impact bat”. Im still waitin to see this so called impact bat, enlighten me on this if yall would, cause i just DO NOT see us gettin that for Vaz.
braves#1
Your Santana point was already proven incorrect. His contract is a liability, he’s a part of the Mets future 2, 3, 4 years down the road, the Mets don’t have a pitching surplus, and Santana’s not at his peak value. Vazquez has a cheap contract, is not a part of our future core, we have the closest thing to a pitching surplus, and Vazquez is having the best season of his last few years.
Who says Vaz is not our future core? I mean i dont know if he is or isn’t but to say absolutely that he isn’t in our future core is absurd, have you been talkin to Wren and braves FO about this? It seems like you have.
braves#1
He’s going to hit free agency and get paid a lot of money for his age 34 on seasons. Do you want in on overpaying him?
And you sure are a cocky dude. To say my Santana point was already proven incorrect. Proven incorrect by who? You? lol whatever dude. Im sure if they put him out there im sure a big market team would be interested so whatever im done with talkin to you about the Santana thing. And just because we have depth dont mean that depth will translate to pitching effectively.
braves#1
who are you calling cocky? you are the one flying off the wall
dude, not everyone agrees with you. that is the point of having a discussion
Im not even callin you cocky temjin. And how am i the one flyin off the wall? You make a smartass question sayin in BOLD Santana got traded once already, remember? And you dont expect me to come back and say somethin to that? Whatever dude. I mentioned Mets i never said he has never been traded so whatever.
braves#1
And that means im flyin off the wall? You type in Caps PLENTY of time does that mean your flyin off the wall? Maybe so lol.
braves#1
Usually when two situations aren’t comparable at all, yet are used as if they are comparable, the use is incorrect.
If they put him up for trade, I’m not so sure a team would be all over him. That’s a giant commitment in years and money for a pitcher in this economy. That is assuming he’s put on the block, which makes zero sense for a Mets team with literally one other decent starter. So I’ll ask you to prove that wrong; what makes your comparison valid in any way beyond that they’re both the best pitcher on their team’s staff?
Ok lets look at this. Who is to replace Vaz our best starter? Medlen? Im not really all that excited to see him starting in place of Vaz. Hudson? The same Hudson that is just now gonna start rehab after missin a year of baseball and who knows how well he will pitch, could pitch good, may not, 50/50 chance either way, i dont wanna risk that. Reyes? I like Reyes but I think the Braves are soured on him and i dont know how well he would pitch in the second half. So i mean where is the damn depth your talkin about? Better words “effective” depth is the correct word. We dont have that. Sure we got “depth” but NOT “effective” depth. So yeah i think thats valid enough EVEN if you agree or not agree with it. You dont have to agree with it for it to be valid and that is most definately valid.
braves#1
and at the beginning i didn’t mean for those other pitchers to take over as our best starters, meant just bein decent for us.
braves#1
The point isn’t that someone has to replace Vazquez in the rotation. The point is that someone has to do an adequate enough job as a fifth starter so that the team doesn’t actually lose wins as a result of the deal.
Thank you.
To rockybull, the chances are much greater than 50/50. Probably around 90/10. Don’t forget that Hudson was our staff ace just last year. And you would rather see Reyes pitching than Medlen? Come on man.
damn, i swear people dont read my posts fully or just dont understand it, maybe i need to be more clearer i dont know but i never said i would rather see Reyes ahead of Medlen. I mentioned them both but never said one would get the nod over the other. All i said is i like Reyes never said more or less than Medlen damn lol. Tommy John Surgery is more serious than you know. 50/50 is actually me bein kind about it, cause there is NO guarantee he will pitch effective for THIS season so you can never assume anything.
Guys seriously if im not typin so that yall understand then just let me know, i thought i have been clear but this isn’t the first time somebody hasn’t been able to fully understand my post, so if im not clear then tell me lol.
braves#1
I kind of inferred from the part where you said you weren’t very excited about Medlen and liked Reyes.
Obviously there is no guarantee that Hudson will return to his prior form, but the success rate is definitely between 85-90%. Ask a doctor, look it up on google, whatever.
What I am trying to say though is that he was our ace last year. If he returns only partially as good as he was, he will still be an effective pitcher until he fully recovers.
90% success rate after TJ?
where did you get that from?
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 7, 2009 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions
baseball prospectus
a failure rate of 10 to 15 percent
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=3486
10-15% failure does not equal 85-90% success. Theres also the “null” option which takes into account the fact that people came back and pitched, but not as well as they once did. The surgery was a success because they came back, but a failure because they weren’t as good as they once were
I think your askin for alot from him in 1-2 months right after TJ. It usually takes that long just to get the feel for things then gets on a roll but whatever. Im not gonna ask no doctor about the success rate of TJ. Sure TJ is a good success rate to be healthy again but to pitch great again? I mean it has saved ALOT of players career but to say they are as good or better after for 85-90% is pushin it, you wanna look it up on google and show me that? You said it so bring the facts with you, dont tell ME to look it up lol.
braves#1
Why don’t you look right above you then? Or is that too far for you?
Where did I say that he would be as good or better? Maybe here:
If he returns only partially as good as he was, he will still be an effective pitcher
Oh no that’s not it.
And it’s 12 months after the surgery. Not 12.
“Don’t forget that Hudson was our staff ace just last year.”
Maybe by the way you said this comment maybe just maybe thats where i got the idea that you thought he would be VERY good comin back. And you stupid moron i know that he had the surgery ONE year ago or close to it, I KNOW THIS YOU IDIOT. When i said 1-2 months i meant they expect him to come back sometime in August or September. And usually it takes awhile for them to get goin AFTER finally pitchin again and i said your askin for alot for him to come back and pitch effectively the first 1-2 months comin back. Your a FUCKIN moron to think i didn’t know what the hell i was talkin about. Dude i know as much about the Braves as just about anybody on here. Some on here talk to the players like CB, Gondee(i think) and maybe others, so they have inside, but as far as watchin games and followin the Braves i know alot and for YOU to think that i didn’t know that i didn’t know that he had TJ surgery last year is insulting me very badly. Dont ever do that do that again.
braves#1
ummm not sure, i might have, depended what it was all about. Prolly not though but possible. I cant remember every single comment that i have ever said on here lol. And i think if you got insulted like he insulted me MULTIPLE times in his post that you might get a lil bit upset also. You already act like an asshole for no apparent reason sometimes, even when people are not even commentin to you so yeah i think i can get a lil bit pissed when someone insults me like this. I dont do this all the time only when people are actin like douches to me. I respect other peoples opinions on here, i realize i dont have the same opinion as everyone on here about every single issue. I think im pretty level headed most of the time on here, but when somebody insults me like he did i have a right to say somethin about it and i WILL say somethin about it also.
braves#1
damn, i swear people dont read my posts fully or just dont understand it, maybe i need to be more clearer
Sorry man I was just reading what you wrote. Why don’t you take your own advice and chill out a little bit?
I read your post clearly though man. I mean you said 2 different things so of course i was misled with that man this is what you said:
“What I am trying to say though is that he was our ace last year.”
“If he returns only partially as good as he was, he will still be an effective pitcher until he fully recovers.”
I mean i read it both and i see what you mean, but man look at it this way, the way you said he was our Ace last year, in a way you still hopin and thinkin he will be great. So i kind of inferred that you was still thinkin he would be great cause he was our Staff Ace last year. I read it right i just took it a different way than you intended it to go.
And thats fine if you was just readin what i wrote but man seemed to me you were bein more smarty about it, because i mean when i said that you replied right to my post cause i pressed up and there it went right to me, so you cant blame me for sayin what i said. But i understood once you told me that it wasn’t necessarily to me even though you replied it to my post. I dont think it warranted you bein smarty to me man.
braves#1
who would take Javys spot in the rotation if we traded him
by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jul 8, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
that was a stupid comment by me I forgot about Huddy, and then there is Medlen to
by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jul 8, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Let’s look at this. We are losing good starts by JJ, Hanson, KK, and Lowe. We are losing b/c we are lacking a big impact bat in the middle of our lineup. The point is, we can trade Vazquez for the impact bat (i’m really not for sure who at this point, maybe Dunn, Dye, VMart or the type). If we get that impact bat, we start winning starts made by the other 4 starters (well once Lowe figures things out). Medlen can hold down the 5th spot for a while. If not, we can try Halama, maybe give Reyes another chance. The point is we can actually start hitting the ball, we can compete.
Listen i understand the poin of talkin about Vaz in deals, he should, Wren would be an idiot not to talk. But that bat has got to be DAMN good man. If not it helps us in no way. If we can get a really good bat then fine im not arguin against that, i just dont see that happenin, thats gonna be a tough thing to do to get full value out of Vaz.
braves#1
The thing is that you act as though we win every time Javy starts. He has a losing record. Obviously that’s not his fault and records are useless as indicators of a pitcher’s performance. However, how much good is he to us if we cannot win when he posts a sub-2.00 ERA?
READ MY POSTS FULLYYYYYYY PLEASE
seriously IF we can get that big “impact” bat then fine trade him, if not keep him, no reason to trade him just to trade him. I just dont believe we will get full value out of him, maybe we can, im not always right, so if we can then good.
This is happenin WAYYYY too much, please read my posts folks damn.
braves#1
That post wasn’t directly replying to yours, it just sort of fit into the flow of conversation. It was directed more to everyone saying that there is no reason to trade Javy.
ok i pressed the up button and it went right to my post so i figured it was aimed directly at me. Im not one of the ones sayin we shouldn’t, rather im sayin we shouldn’t unless we get a huge impact bat, and i just dont see that happenin. Or a big bat along with a real good spec, he best be good too. Other than that we should keep Vaz if we dont get what we want.
braves#1
If we are making a playoff push
why would we want to trade away our best pitcher?
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 5, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
I have no idea man, its ridiculous. If we were gettin a guy like Braun then sure but we are NOT gonna get a guy like that.
braves#1
Exactly
that is why I said the other day when someone suggested trading for Werth that unless the conversation started with Utley, I would hang up the phone.
If we trade our best SP, we’d better be getting a freakin superstar in return.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 5, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly right
You sell a player high for a great return. rockybull is missing the point a little in that he suggests that trading Vasquez is ridiculous because he believes he is our best pitcher when really, the better point is that it would be ridiculous to trade Vasquez for anything less than a star player
That's all well and good
Though I would add that a superstar isn’t likely to be traded for Vazquez considering his career numbers. However, if you are talking about a real impact bat, you are absolutely right.
Justincredubil and I have had this conversation before, and while we don’t match up on what kind of player(s) would make us happy, I think the idea of selling high on JV isn’t a bad idea for the right package.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 6, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with this
I really do not want to trade JV at all (just in case nobody has figured that out yet – lol), but if Atlanta DOES trade him, if they get a great package in return, I won’t be too upset. Great package means WAY more than Corey Hart.
If they trade Vaz for prospects, I will be pissed. If they trade him for mediocre talent, I will be pissed. If they trade him for an all-star caliber player, I won’t be pissed.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 6, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Im not sayin we shouldn’t trade him, i just dont think we are gonna get that impact bat that you think we are gonna get for him temjin. Impact bat is NOT a Cory Hart type guy, i like him but he isn’t impact bat.
braves#1
but you have...
another arm.
if the analogy holds true, then the other “arm” here is the depth of our SP. however, until Hudson proves that he’s fully, and i mean, FULLY, recovered and ready to go, trading Vaz is not only stupid from a baseball standpoint but also from a PR standpoint.
if Huddy’s ready, then I say trade Vaz to Texas for Cruz and Martin Perez.
Then trade Escobar and Frenchy and Kris Medlen to Kansas City for Mike Moustakas and Tim Melville.
Put Prado at SS (so what if he sucks) and look into the FA market for a SS this summer.
I know, it sucks, but honestly, we suck and at least this lets us plan for the future.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jul 6, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I’m sure KC is gonna give up Moustakas for…Jeff Francoeur, a fiery Cuban, and a dude destined to be a reliever
i like fiery Cubans...
Coheebas? Romeo and Juliets?
that’s why it’s call Rosterbation. Moustakas might be David Wright or he might be Ryan Zimmerman. Escobar has proven he is capable of being a quality player in the MLB right now. Moustakas is, at least, 2 years away. that part of the trade is a wash. Melville is good, but nothing really is known about him now. So, the Royals get a starting SS and a RF who, given a change of scenery and different expectations, could be an All-Star. PLUS they get Medlen (who’s not necessarily destined for a Reliever role, that’s just his role with us).
but i’m pretty sure you don’t know much about the situation. Had you said MONEY or YEARS UNDER CONTROL, then i would have shut up, but you just sound like a moron.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jul 7, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
funny...
that you’re the only one responding. obviously people agree with me. ergo, the personal attack is actually a fact.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jul 9, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Just cause other people aren’t responding, doesn’t mean we agree with you. You rosterbation looks ridiculous; I just don’t feel the need to tell everyone who creates nonsensical scenarios that what they propose is silly.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
Funny
it seems that to these people a lack of response (or, silence on our parts) is deemed as a “victory” of some sort. The wonderful world of Cybermen…
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 9, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
My favorite part
Put Prado at SS (so what if he sucks)
Because that is what good baseball teams think…
and I agree that the rosterbation looks pretty ridiculous.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 9, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
You really think Medlen is destined as a reliever? interesting. I figure as soon as the kid gets his nerves under control he will be fine. we saw signs of it in his last couple of games started
by drumzalicious on Jul 7, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he’s going to be a reliever. He just doesn’t have the stuff to be a starter.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
That's just it
We won’t know if Huddy is ready before the trading deadline. That is why I think it is stupid to trade JV.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 6, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Lets clear something up right now.
Vazquez has a NTC to any team in the NL or AL West. He will not, repeat, WILL NOT accept a trade to any west team. He has stated time and time before that he does not want to be on the west coast due to his family. So you can pitch trading him to Texas right in the bin.
What about the Jays?
We need some pitching for the back of our Bullpen. Do you guys think we could work out a deal with the Jays?
Casey Janssen, Jeremy Accardo, Brandon League, or Jason Frasor?
We really don’t. We are in the discussion for best bullpen in NL. What we need is a power bat. We get on-base at league average rates, but have the 7th worst isolated power in baseball. The Mets and Dodgers can get around that as they get on-base a lot more than us. Francoeur is hitting for as much power right now as Scott Podsednik; ignoring his poor batting average, inability to walk, and penchant for putting a lot of bad balls into play, that’s reason enough to fix that problem before any other weakness.
Money
The main reason you make a deal involving Vasquez is because it will free up the money to re-sign Hudson in the offseason. Why not buy low and sell high on Javy you will most likely end up with a package of Corey Hart and either Taylor Green or Brett Lawrie and a pitching prospect and if you want to expand the deal you could end up with a very nice pitching prospect like Jeremy Jefferres if you include kelly johnson. You gain a lot in the deal and you could deal francoeur to the royals for a PTBNL and the team is better as a whole next season you still have Hart for 2 more years of Arby and he was an all-star last year, so he couldn’t have completely forgotten how to hit in one off season, he is streaky but he can be a 25-25 guy when he is right and could give us a very nice OF next season of Mclouth in LF, Schafer in CF and Hart in RF
by mauck98 on Jul 6, 2009 12:44 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
This is what I have yet to understand
Everyone says “trade Javy to resign Hudson”. Um, correct me if I am wrong, but Javy and Hudson are both potentially under contract for the same amount of time, making roughly the same salary. Javy has been a top 5 pitcher in all of baseball this season while Huddy has been recovering from TJ surgery.
Why in the world would we want to clear room for him by getting rid of our best pitcher???
If the decision came down to keeping either Vazquez or Hudson, give me JV any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
What has Hudson done to warrant us preferring him over Vaz at this point?
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 6, 2009 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
I gotta say i agree, i mean what has Hudson done to warrant us keepin him over Vaz? I mean Hudson has been a solid pitcher for us but he was never a great pitcher for us, maybe 1 year out of the years he was with us and then the other years were solid or a lil below solid for him in the other years.
braves#1
Javy is just way more tradeable
and we have holes to fill. All of them in RF.
by VivaLosBravos on Jul 6, 2009 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Who cares?
At what point does a player’s tradeability outweigh his skills? Vazquez is way more valuable to us as a starter than as a trading chip. We have nobody that could replace him in our rotation.
Trading the best SP on our staff (which happens to be the only thing keeping us in the hunt right now) to land a power bat is robbing Peter to pay Paul. It would be a severely stupid move unless it brings in a Braun-type player who is under control for more than just this year.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 6, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Tell it man
I dont get the purpose of tradin our best SP either. A dude earlier said its a difference between us tradin Vaz and the Mets tradin Santana, but not really, i mean how good are both of these teams WITHOUT these big pitchers? Your right justin, it is an incredible stupid move to trade him unless we get a Braun-type which we WONT get. Now it would get me thinkin if it was Hart and Alcides Escobar for Vaz but i read on MLBtraderumors where they said Alcides Escobar is untouchable so i mean that takes them out of the equation all together then. I just dont see a match anywhere for Yunel or Vaz, i see us keepin both and MAYBE gettin a solid RF somewhere, but i mean im fine with playin GA in LF, and Diaz in RF and see how this goes.
braves#1
“a very nice pitching prospect like Jeremy Jeffress”
Who is one blunt away from being banned for life. Slick
I was just about to post that
Isn’t he the kid that just got the 100 game ban? Man what a sickening story … 100 million dollar arm, 2 cent brain.
You aren’t the czar of typographic emphasis
keep escobar and vazquez..
Does anyone think the Nats would go for Medlen and Francouer for Willingham? Lineup would be set: McClouth, Escobar, Chipper, McCann, Willingham, Anderson, Prado, Kotchman. Then at full strength have Kelly, Diaz, Infante as platoon partners and Ross and Blanco on the bench.. And when Hudson comes back we figure out who to bump to the pen..
that
is overpaying. Medlen should not be sent anywhere in our division.
by drumzalicious on Jul 6, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
word
I don’t like trading Medlen anywhere, but you know a trade in our own division would just kill us
I wouldn’t mind that, although I’m not really buying into Dye. He does have a career OPS of .834 though, and anything is better than Frenchy out there. I don’t know if I see the ChiSox accepting that one however. If they did, they would probably become one of my favorite AL teams with Alexei Ramirez, Gordon Beckham, T-Flow, and now Medlen.
I doubt we could eat the excess salary though. And I think the White Sox might be buyers right now, so I don’t see them getting rid of Dye.
If Javy goes on the market, the Braves automatically have the most attractive pitcher out there. I don’t think Wren is foolish enough to ship him anywhere in the NL East. I think you have to really hone in on the Brewers.
I don’t like the idea of trading away solidified major league starting pitching. However, the hole in our lineup is so glaring that its hard to sit and do nothing. This move really becomes possible now that it is clear Hanson is not pulling a Jordan Shafer.
I’m not really attached to Escobar. Send he and his attitude anywhere ya like. Get a prospect and let Infante play when he returns.
JV would no longer be the most attractive
Apparently the Jays are listening on Roy Halladay…
Agreed on your second point.
Infante is not a solution at SS. Unless Wren can come up with a scheme where the Braves get an equal or better SS than Escobar, I say the Braves keep him.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 8, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Whatever happened to the Rios Talks?
The Braves/Jays could benefit from a trade in which the Braves get Alex Rios.
I’m not sure but for what they are trying to do I dont think the Jays would have a problem eating about Half of his contract so about 6 mil a year for them and 7 for the Braves.
Braves get a quality RF’er Jays get that salary relief that they want to help them retain Halladay.
They could then extend him at least through 2015 with that extra money paying the guy at least 20 mil a year.
As far as who we send them I’m not to sure because I don’t know the depth of their organization. Maybe Cody Johnson?
Im not to sure.
ah yes
the ultimate problem.
Wonder if we deal Javy for just prospects to bolster our system a little more. Clear his salary and then obtain Rios.
by drumzalicious on Jul 7, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Then re-sign Huddy
and eat up all of JV’s contract that was just freed up…
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 7, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
would love Rios...
seriously. get him into a warmer climate and that guy could turn into mini-Pujols.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jul 7, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Like it
Excluding the obvious budgetary concerns, and after thinking about it a while, I really like the idea of trading for Rios. If we could get him without impacting the major league roster I’m all for it. I don’t want to speculate as to what it would take (prospect/player) wise but the end result would be a significant upgrade in our outfield – Diaz/Church, McClouth, Rios. AR obviously isn’t the impact bat I’ve been screaming for but looking at it from a net runs perspective change my opinion.
Oh well, wishful thinking ….
You aren’t the czar of typographic emphasis
How about this?
I just read these 2 situations on MLBTRADERUMORS.We could trade Vazquez to the Dodgers for Eithier.They have extra cap room and need the extra arm.And Ethier can play LF or RF.Then we trade Escobar to the Bosox for mabye Ellsbary and mabye throw in Frenchy to sweeten the deal.
And who plays SS?
I mean, c’mon, lets be realistic here, we aren’t trading away Escobar unless there is a SS to use…
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 6, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
And then at shortstop we play…oh shit. We no longer have a legit shortstop on our payroll.
I am almost positive that Escobar will not be traded. He is our most valuable player at this point, in that he is young, cheap, a top 10 SS, and under team control. The first trade has potential, but considering how Ethier has played without Manny in the lineup, Javy may be too much.
Haha
great minds…
Also, it is really unlikely that the Dodgers ior Bosox would agree to those deals. The Vazquez deal might work, but I don’t think the Braves would be getting enough value in that deal. The Bosox seem to want to keep Ellsbury, and Frenchy has negative value.
I can’t imagine that Dierkes would have posted these ideas, where did this come from?
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 6, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. Ethier has been awful sans Manny, but why would the Dodgers, or Red Sox, really want to make a trade with one of their starters when they are playing so well? They’re not just contenders, but they are both considered favorites in their respective leagues. So why change something that is already performing beautifully?
I thin we have attractive options at shortstop with Infante coming off the DL. Prado can also play short and put Kelly back in the lineup.
I dunno about that
Prado’s 2b defense is suspect enough, I don’t like the idea of him at SS. Infante maybe ok defensively, but don’t let his hot start earlier this year fool you. Lifetime stats:
.264 AVG .308 OBP .392 SLG% .700 OPS
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 6, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Prado cannot play shortstop. Infante is not an “attractice option at shortstop”; he’s a utilityman who would be terribly exposed offensively and defensively playing every day. And he’s recovering from a hand injury; those are notoriously slow to recover from fully.
And that’s ignoring the hole we’d have for the next several years. We have literally one prospect who could be a big league shortstop. Hicks is currently struggling at AA. What do we do next year? Overpay in free agency when we’ll already be stretched?
only if the dodgers ate all of javys contract and they throw in a reliever
by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jul 8, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
That first deal isn’t equal value anyway.
by VivaLosBravos on Jul 9, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Brewers trying to deal for Javy
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/brewers-trying-to-deal-for-vazquez.html
Kinda already known but just thought i would post it.
I really dont think we should deal for Hart. From whats been talked about of him the guy is KJ streaky and we cant afford to have two of those.
If we are trading Javy it needs to be a bat that is a very high impact.
What about V-Mart?
Medlen and Kotchman? I figure that would be where it starts. Prob throw in a Low A Ball pitcher.
Thoughts?
There comes a point where Casey Kotchman is just a guy. Not sure if we’ve reached that point yet, but his trade value has to be pretty small at this point.
I think his trade value is about what it was when we got him. He will always be a glove man, that is going to hit 7 in the lineup, but won’t make errors at first base. That hasn’t changed.
As for Medlen and Kotchman and single A pitcher for Victor Martinez would be fantastic. I would love this move, if we could do it. Martinez is cheap (5.7 this year and 7 mill option next) He would be leaving just into for Freeman to take the job. Don’t get me wrong, I really do like Medlen, but Martinez is the bat we have been looking for.
No, he had that amateur pedigree as an offensive force and that very good 2007 season in his pocket coming into this year. There was a decent chance he’d become more than an average hitter with a good glove playing first. Now…three months is three months, but it’s been a year and a half since he showed anything special offensively.
You have to remember
he is recently back from the DL. before he went on the DL he was crushing doubles left and right.
Now he is starting to heat up a bit and i wouldnt be surprised to see him, Prado, and McLouth leading the league for doubles by the end of the season
by drumzalicious on Jul 6, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Well It was just a proposal.
I feel as though the Indians would take a solid glove and someone that wont be a complete albatross in their lineup. Plus a young Starter that they will have control of for 6 years who when having his nerves under control can be a pretty good pitcher.
We have seen flashes of Medlen when he has his stuff going and he isnt letting his nerves get to him. If he could take that and harness it consistently he could be a great starter behind Tommy.
At the same time however I understand giving up quality to get quality so we would prob have to part with Medlen in that deal.
Perhaps it doesnt even have to be a Low A Ball pitcher. Maybe they will have interest in Barbaro lol
Seriously that would be a great deal for both sides I believe.
by drumzalicious on Jul 7, 2009 2:54 AM EDT up reply actions
meh
Just had to post a lineup =^)
1. McLouth CF
2. Prado 2B
3. C. Jones 3B
4. V-Mart 1B – Kinda a mini Tex if you think about it. A Lot Cheaper tho
5. McCann C
6. Escobar SS
7. G Anderson LF
8. Frenchy/Diaz
It would be really nice if we unloaded FYF and got someone who could hit Lead-Off. I feel Nate would be ideal in the #2 spot.
Although then you end up having a spark like Prado really low in the lineup.
by drumzalicious on Jul 7, 2009 4:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Nate is either a 1 or a 3 type of guy. But I guess the 2 spot is sort of a combination of the two, so you could be on to something.
The point I was going to get to with Blanco, is that I think it would be great to try him again, at leadoff. It would go something like…
Blanco
Prado
Chipper
Esocbar
McCann
McClouth
Anderson
Kotchman
We need either impact speed or impact power. We already have impact speed on the team in Blanco. Why not use it?
Because he doesn’t have impact speed? He’s a career 75% base stealer in the majors and 64% since ‘06 in the minors. He doesn’t attempt tons of steals either. A steal’s worth about 0.2 runs and a caught stealing about -0.4 runs. That means he’s generated about a run over his major league career by stealing bases. In all other base running oppurtunities – 1st to 3rd, advancing on GBs, etc. – baseballprospectus.com’s base running stat has him at +1 run for his career. The best base-runners (Reyes, Crawford, Ichiro) will add about 10 runs a season with their legs.
I don’t disagree that he should be playing over Francoeur, but it’s because even his meager offense is better than Francoeur’s contributions not because he has game-changing speed.
I think there will be a whole lot of competition for Martinez, and the price will be higher – much higher than what you proposed. Think Freeman.
I'm not so sure
They want pitching as their main haul and the only team that could compete with us is the Red Sox. I mean if that happened THEN we would have a bit of an issue lol
by drumzalicious on Jul 7, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
isn't V-Mart...
…like 31? i like the guy, don’t get me wrong, but he is a bit old for what we’d have to give up to get him.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jul 7, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
he is
but at the same time out producing a lot of our starters. Plus he is gone after next year clearing the way for Freeman in 2011
by drumzalicious on Jul 7, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Marco Scutaro
is a FA at the end of the year…
could we get a package of Rios and Scutaro IF the Jays trade Halladay to the Brewers for A. Escobar and players?
Rios and Scutaro for:
K. Medlen
K. Johnson
J. Schafer
C. Kimbrel
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jul 7, 2009 10:54 AM EDT reply actions
that’s alot to give up. i’d rather play infante full time than scutaro
by bravesfan203 on Jul 7, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Jays might deal Halladay
Hope he doesnt end up going to the Phils . . . that would suck.
Wonder if Wren would try to out deal the Phillies to prevent them from getting him.
Medlen
Escobar
Some others
As you can see I’m trying to keep from dealing Hanson lol.
I would love a team to get Rios from them so that they could retain Halladay. I would love to see him stay with them through out his career
OMG! I JUST HAD THIS GREAT IDEA. WHY DON’T WE MAKE OUR ROTATION COMPLETELY OUT OF SINKERBALLERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MAKE IT HAPPEN WREN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Derek Lowe
With all the rumors surrounding Javy Vazquez, I was wondering what the thought was of trying to deal Derek Lowe. We have a history of getting rid of players that are not working out for us. (just ask Glavine) Maybe not on the scale of Lowe’s however.
I thought we could eat some of the 15 million a year he is owed, and trade him to say, the Brewers, or a team that needs pitching. The thought is that, yes we overpaid for what he is going to bring to the table. We paid him to be our ace, when he won’t be more than a 2 or 3, especially with his age. If we could get the salary bumped down a bit by taking some on, maybe we could trade him for the outfielder we need now. I mean, its either that, or we are going to be stuck with his 15 million a year anyways.
I’m just throwing out an idea guys, what do you think?
Thats been brought up a few times here.
Some agree some don’t for various reasons.
The one downside with it is that Lowe wont net us AS big of a return and therefore would just be salary relief.
by drumzalicious on Jul 7, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s not being paid to be an ace. He got $15 million/year. Santana and Sabathia both got $23 million/year. He’s being paid roughly commensurate with being a 3.5-4 WAR pitcher; last year guys like Kuroda, Jurrjens, Cain, and Jered Weaver were worth about that much.
He is earning his contract though. He’s been worth about 2 wins which is worth $9 million and he’s so far been paid $7.5 million. He might not being doing well lately*, but how quickly we forget his first 13 starts were beyond dominant.
In fact he’s alternated useful starts for his last five appearances. Quality starts aren’t indicative of much, but he’s had 12 in 18 starts not including the solid 3 IP start at the beginning where rain forced him out.
Frank Wren just doesn't get it
He doesn’t realize that this is nothing more than just a .500 team. He needs to unload Vazquez for some prospects while his value is still high.
My two favorite football teams are the Bears and whoever's playing the Packers.
Is it a requirement to be over .500 to win your division? All this team has to do is win the division. Once the playoffs arrive, all bets are off.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 7, 2009 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you really think that will hold up? When was the last time a .500 team won their division? Went to the world series? WON the world series?
Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one around here who gives a s#!t about the rules?!?
by TennKen on Jul 10, 2009 1:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Off the top of my head – just about every NLW team for the past few years…the Rox made it to the Series. I am not saying that a .500 team will win the division. In fact, I said about 86 wins should do it – that would be 5 games over .500.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 10, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
83-79 is not .500. Has a .500 team ever won the World Series?
Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one around here who gives a s#!t about the rules?!?
Getting to the playoffs is the important part
if we can get to the playoffs and be just a .500 team there, we win the WS.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 12, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
The point is, if we can get to the playoffs, then all bets are off. Anything can happen in October, something that makes it very special. Look at some of the previous WS participants from the NL
2008: (92-70) Phillies won 13 of last 16 to win the NL East
2007: (90-73) Rockies won 15 of last 16 to win NL WC
2006: (83-78)Cardinals went to the WS with only 83 wins, in a very weak Central, that is shaping up kinda like the NL East this year.
The Phillies and Rockies got hot at the right time. They got hot, and made the playoffs. The Cardinals got off to a good start, and then battled the rest of the year.
Its the 2006 Cardinals team that make me believe we can do something. Look at our pitching staff. Its the best in the Majors. The longer we keep hanging around, the better our chance of getting hot and making some noise.
This, This and Absolutely THIS!
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 10, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely correct
I have always said that the post-season is a different animal. It has a lot to do with momentum. The hard part is making the post-season.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 10, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
What do you guys think about Sin-Shoo Choo?
Hes having a real good year and is pretty cheap. Any cchance we could get him from the Tribe?
2009 Atlanta Braves Motto: We ♥ leaving RISP.
YESSS!!!
I would love to get Choo. He is having a fantastic year, but I’m not sure if he is available.
My two favorite football teams are the Bears and whoever's playing the Packers.
Get rid of Lowe
Derek Lowe is older he is more expensive and he is pitching pretty bad from what we expected from him… Vazquez is our best pitcher right now and we can get a good bat by trading lowe and not vazquez
He's not pitching bad
just not like an ace.
by drumzalicious on Jul 8, 2009 2:22 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Because Vazquez has more surplus value? Lowe is basically earning his paycheck right now; Vazquez is far surpassing his with his performance and is a very good bet to do so again next year.
in addendum
Vazquez is pitching above his career norms and there is a good chance he is due for a regression.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 8, 2009 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
or
he is pitching like his peripherals always said he would.
he loves Bobby and the East Coast. good things happen when people are happy and pitch without having to worry.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jul 8, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps
but I tend to believe that he will regress to his norms set by 11 years of MLB service…
and his current peripherals are showing that his Groundball percentage is the highest in his career…and way above his norms, which would point to eventual regression.
For the record, I like Javy and I hope you are right.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 8, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I actually had posted in the game thread yesterday.
Something we could look into is Trading Lowe. Eating about 20 mil of his contract (5mil/yr)
Ship him out without expecting anything great in return. He could be dealt to the Angels. They have a bit of Payroll Flexibility and are seeking Starters.
Dont get anything great in return just like a High A or AA pitching prospect with some upside.
After that flip that prospect plus Medlen and one of our own pitching prospects for Victor Martinez.
We shed about 10 mil a year for the next 4 years. Get Martinez for 1/2 seasons and we are set.
We can then use this money to retain Soriano and whatever Arbitration cases we will have.
by drumzalicious on Jul 8, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
What about relievers
Bowman makes a good point, the Braves have two closers on roster. Why not trade one or both?
Teams salivate over closers and often give up too much for them. I am of the personal opinion that closers should be developed, not purchased. Could the Braves deal a closer and get a nice return back to get us back a few minor league prospects?
I think trading any starting pitching is a m-i-s-t-a-k-e.
I wouldn't mind
trading Gonzo (nothing against him, but Soriano is ridiculous when healthy). but the return might not be as good as the Braves would like in the areas that they need.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 8, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I hear ya
I know I had said it in another post but we do have Luis Valdez in the minors and when I saw him pitch against Norfolk he was LIGHTS OUT! He is straight nasty and we could get him ready to be our closer next season.
P.S. Medlen is not a closer he is trade bait. Thats for the guy below my post
Why on earth would you trade Medlen?
I still don’t see how people so quickly forget last season and the mounting injuries to a pitching staff.
Because we have carlyle and campillo as long relievers, jo jo, armas, and halama in teh minors as starters what more do u want. Its not like medlen has been the savior as a starter and we could get a decent return for him.
Carlyle, Campillo, and JoJo are all on the DL with no sign of ever coming off. Hard to rely on those guys.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
Jojo pitched for Gwinnett last night. Did he get hurt again?
Also, Campillo is out for the year. I’d wager that his career is over.
Campillo
is out for the year? really?
wow that sucks
by drumzalicious on Jul 8, 2009 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought that was a debunked rumor…?
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 8, 2009 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t understand the deal with Carlye and his recent diagnosis with diabetes. My Hubby got the same diagnosis about a year ago, his case was bad and he had to start on insulin injections immediately, but he did not even miss a full day of work. We had to go to a nutritionist to learn what he could eat and when. That took all off a couple hours.
The doctor considered his case serious because he has lost 13 family members due to complications from their diabetes
That being said, is Bobby just using this as a reason to keep him on the DL , as he does regularly, KJ is the most recent case.
Carlye should have been back after a week at the most!
well im not so sure. Baseball is a bit more intense than some “regular” jobs so it might have to do with that. we also dont know the severity
by drumzalicious on Jul 8, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
So the same rate essentially?
Buddy Carlyle was already a marginal major league athlete. Buddy Carlyle sans 20 pounds is not a major league athlete. It’s probably a different story unless your husband works in a very physically demanding workplace. Even then, he has more control over whether he can choose to perform his job than Buddy. Buddy could be chomping at the bit trying to get back on the roster, but it’s management’s call whether they think he can outperform Logan or Medlen.
Yeah, that’s what I was suggesting in my last sentence above. I think this is probably one of those situations.
Of course, I could be wrong, and he is having a great deal of trouble getting his blood glucose regulated. I wish him the best.
I’ve noticed my Husband gets tired more easily, and that would effect Buddy’s pitching, also my Husband sits in his office all day, except for going out to lunch.
Well, I do know it’s taken some other professional athletes years to figure out how to manage diabetes. Mike Maroth uses an insulin pack when he pitches to help regulate his condition. Not to belittle your husband’s situation in any way, because it certainly is a life-changing condition, but when your livelihood is based on physical performance, diabetes has an immeasurable effect on things.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
I actually think both those guys are very good. I wouldn’t count on either of them to be bullpen anchors right out of the gate, but I think they both deserve a shot to play in the majors.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
Agreed about Valdez
I like him, i think he can definately be a useful piece to a bullpen. Maybe not closer in MLB but definately a good bullpen guy. Now i dont know nothin about Gomez so i cant really comment about him.
braves#1
Gomez had a nice spring training
by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jul 10, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
So did Schafer
ST is not a good representation
by drumzalicious on Jul 10, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
b/c when we lose both next year...
we will get two first round picks for them as they will both be type-A free agents. this will allow Medlen to move to the closer’s role.
Wren is valuing the picks more than anything with those two.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jul 8, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Holliday
I wonder if Soriano or Gonzalez, as type-A free agents, will be able to entice Billy Beane to release his hold on Matt Holliday. Holliday is not having a great year, but is still the only outfield bat I think the Braves would improve themselves by trading for.
They type-A status guarantees the A’s picks in return when that player walks at seasons end. They likely won’t receive compensatory picks for Holliday (I think). Package one of the two closers with another player (Francouer perhaps). Give the A’s an outfielder and compensation picks for a guy they have no intention of keeping.
Anyway, that’s just spitballing.
Can't take on Holliday's contract
and I don’t think the Braves should waste their time on 1/2 year rentals.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 8, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I completely agree. I personally don’t think the Braves need to make a move other than to perhaps get another decent righty in the pen. I do think, however, if that if the Braves are intent on pursuing an outfielder, the only one that makes any kind of sense is Holliday. Everybody else would be replacing a mediocre player with a mediocre player.
There are plenty of potentially available OFers
who are above mediocre…
Choo, LaPorta, and Cuddyer are all rumored to be moveable, and I would consider all above average. Corey Hart has been mediocre, but I think he could be better than mediocre. I would guess that Brad Hawpe is no longer being considered available, but he is better than mediocre. The Phillies need pitching, and if the Braves were to trade JV within the division Jayson Werth and Shane Victorino are both above mediocre (that is the biggest stretch of a scenario).
And acie is correct. Frenchy is horrific. That is who we are talking about replacing.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 8, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
the Phillies...
we would start with Michael Taylor. done. end of story.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jul 9, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Probably
But I was talking about ML outfielders.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 9, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Oakland doesn’t need a closer. Bailey will have that job for the long haul.
Also, why would that deal make sense for the Braves? Trade one of our current closers, an OF a prospect and essentially a future 1st round draft pick for a struggling, over-rated, over-paid, never above average away from coors Holliday?
No thanks.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 8, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
The point was not about Oakland needing a closer. They will use the closer and gain picks from his departure. The A’s like to stockpile picks. A trade like that gives them that option. I also never said to include a prospect.
They guy is a good ball player regardless of his struggles. If you remember Edgar Renterria was terrible in Boston before they sent him back to the NL where he played sterling shortstop for Atlanta.
Colorado would give up some offensive talent for Javy
Once Halladay became available their board has churned like crazy. They are ready to move some major prospects and have tons of productive offensive talent sitting on their bench every day, Even if Hawpe isn’t available, as badly as they want to upgrade their starting pitching with a front-line ace, they would toss out some quality hitters.
Javy for:
Seth Smith, a AAA arm, and Atkins?
That’s a deal I would jump all over as a fan of both teams. Improves the Braves at 2 positions of need and would look like a bargain to the Rocks after they are seeing what Halladay would take for them to land. They have some great young arms to choose from too. It isn’t exactly Javy for Ryan Braun, but from Frenchy to Smith AND Kotch to Atkins is an equal upgrade to Braun in my book. With the extra runs we’ll better compete EVERY DAY and take advantage of the (still solid) starters we will have left. Sell high on Javy and get some offense.
My .02 … now go ahead and blast holes in it. I love how this matches up though…
FREE ADRIAN CLAYBORN! It's a conspiracy and/or he was framed!
If the Braves did that
I would puke in disgust. Javy will be more valuable than that on the trade market. Like I said before, if the conversation doesn’t start with the other team’s best hitter, I would hang up the phone.
Besides, Javy would not approve of going to the pitcher’s career killer known as Coors Field.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 9, 2009 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention the fact, that Javy has a NO TRADE CLAUSE that prohibits any trade to the NL and AL West.
Luke Scott?
Orioles might be an interesting trade partner. They are buried in the toughest division in baseball and working to get younger. Granted, Scott is a lefty (which we don’t need), but has good power.
the Rays match up well with us...
Wade Davis, RHP
Tim Beckham, SS
for
Javy
and we give them 3 million dollars next year.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jul 9, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Rays are not gonna trade us Beckham and Davis i wouldn’t think, and plus wouldn’t we have to eat like all of Vaz salary cause i dont figure they really have much money left if any.
braves#1
With all their young pitching, I’m sure they’d move Davis in the right deal, but the idea that they’d trade Beckham, a year after drafting him number one overall, is just stupid.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
Oh yeah i could definately see them movin Davis in a deal for Vaz but no way Davis and Beckham in the same deal is what i was sayin, and plus we would have to eat all Vaz salary this year and alot next year i would imagine, cause i dont know how much available funds the Rays have left.
braves#1
You’re point on the money is great; I’d guarantee the Rays don’t have the funds to pick up Javy’s contract.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
I'll toss another one out there
MLBTR mentions the Pirates are pushing to deal Freddy Sanchez. The Braves and Pirates have had a lot of dealings over the past few years.
One team mentioned in those rumors is the Rockies. Rockies have a pretty decent second baseman in Clint Barmes.
I guess a deeper question is, “do we really consider second base a hole?” Certainly with Kelly’s play, that was a glaring problem. Prado has come on strong to be sure. However, is Prado a great bench player who’s gotten hot, or a good every day second baseman?
If
Kelly was still our 2B i would say pull the trigger but I think Prado is holding his own. If Prado fails they will either go back to KJ or use one of Infante/Conrad.
by drumzalicious on Jul 9, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
My attempt at Rosterbation
What about Fred Lewis? A straight up trade with SF – Lewis for FYF…does that work? Both players fit into that “need a change of scenery” category…I wonder if SF would be willing to do that.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 9, 2009 4:46 PM EDT reply actions
i dunno
if we deal for someone they need to be a sure thing contributor. someone that really makes the team go boom
by drumzalicious on Jul 9, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
We arent going to get anyone like that for FYF.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 9, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
of course
i was just saying that if we are going to upgrade it needs to be a real upgrade. not same production different name.
Still think we should go after V-Mart.
by drumzalicious on Jul 9, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Justin, i would do that in a heartbeat man. If we could get that for Frenchy i would be stunned, thats wayyyy more than what im expectin.
braves#1
Lewis is actually good the last thing SF needs is offensive downgrade
by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jul 10, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
According to ESPN
the Giants are getting tired of him. He is putting up FYF-esque numbers this season.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 10, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
oh I wasnt aware of that I just remember him looking like a good player when we have played Sf
by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jul 10, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn...
I was close to nailing this one…sorta.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 10, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
This isn't particularly related...
but it seems like someone mentioned Matt Kemp in this thread and I was wondering, does anyone know why the hell the Dodgers are batting him 8th? Just curious. And glad to see the Mets give up a 4-spot in the 1st.
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jul 9, 2009 7:41 PM EDT reply actions
“Veteran leadership” leads best from the front in Joe’s eyes. No other reason can explain why Casey Blake is batting 5th.
his OPS is around 800 isnt it
by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jul 10, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought I had heard that when Manny went out, Kemp started to slump, so he was moved down…I could be “mis-remembering” that though.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 10, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Ethier did, though
Pete Rose was actually banned from baseball for teaching Jeff Francoeur how to play. He made up the gambling stuff to hide his shame.
by VivaLosBravos on Jul 12, 2009 3:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I have no idea he is hitting over 300 with 10 homers and he steals bases
by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jul 10, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Joe Torre
does prefer vets. 17843 is right. That is your reason.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 10, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Adam Laroche is available
The bucs would have to pay the salary….
He’s always good in the second half.
And do what with Kotchman?
You already have noted how expensive he is. I did like LaRoche, but I don’t see a fit with the Braves right now.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 10, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Why trade Kotchman? People are gonna have to look more at defense. Everybody just looks at offense, its ridiculous. Defense is also key. Kotchman has NOT made an error since we acquired him. He is as good as anybody at First. His offense is solid, not great but not bad. He has a fantastic eye at the plate, prolly only Chipper has a better eye on the team. His judgement at the plate judging balls and strikes is fantastic. He isn’t the prototypical sluggin 1B but im fine with what he is. We have Kotchman here for i think another 2 years guaranteed after this year. So we can take our time with Freeman in the minors, we can let him play in AA the rest of this year, some of next year, then send him to AAA and then 2011 opening day he has a chance to be our starting 1B. Perfect timing in my opinion. There is just no reason to trade Kotchman right now. He is more valuable than people think.
braves#1
THIS.
He is more valuable than people think
Funny…I posted that exact thing the other night right before he hit a HR…
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 10, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Well we need to upgrade somewhere
And with Fuga heating up and Diaz getting time in right field, I just figured maybe at first base. whatever. I forgot about defense.
Maybe we could use this same theory to sell the Pirates on Kotchman. LaRoche is just as good as he is at 1B and twice as good offensively. If we can’t fill holes in the OF, maybe we do need to look somewhere else.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
Justin lol, didn’t see that post of yours but i believe you.
CB, see this is my thinkin man. LaRoche is a free agent in the offseason and will want a 3 year or more deal so that means he is not gonna sign with us. Kotchman i think has 2 more years left so that buys plenty of time for Freeman to get ready. Neither of our opinions are wrong, i just think keepin Kotchman is better for the team and development of Freeman. I mean we lose LaRoche in offseason that means we gotta trade prospects for a stopgap 1B until Freeman is ready cause i dont wanna rush him to the majors.
braves#1
I definitely see your point about Kotchman, but the thing is, aside from his defense, there’s nothing about him that couldn’t be easily replaced with a stopgag free agent. There are always a ton of 1B free agents who could equal his production as a hitter and cost roughly the same. Hell, we could bring back Mark Kotsay to play 1B and he’d probably be cheaper and more productive.
I’m not for trading prospects for LaRoche, but since the Pirates don’t seem to think much of Steve Peace, they might be enticed by a guy like Freeman who they could control for a while. The only thing stopping it could be if they feel that Pedro Alvarez is a 1B, which I think he is, and they don’t want to block him (even though any fool could see he won’t be ready next year).
We need some kind of oomp for this lineup, and giving only giving up a completely replaceable player and a maybe an A ball pitcher are what it takes, it’d be worth exploring.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
"they might be enticed by a guy like Freeman who they could control for a while."
Did you mean kotchman? I wouldnt trade freeman for half a year of laroche
And i see your point in gettin LaRoche. I just dont think we could get a free agent that is nearly as good defensively as Kotchman or that is as good as him defensively and can hit like him. He cant hit great but he is pretty solid in my view. I wouldn’t be upset if a trade like that happens but i would prefer it not to. I mean Kotchman defense is nothin short of awesome, he does alot for this team defensively that goes unnoticed in the box score with his defense. And yes i know that LaRoche has very good defense as well. Its just 2010 has me concerned about who plays 1B thats what it comes down to for me.
braves#1
I guess my theory is that if you’re not killing the farm system, do whatever it takes to win. 1B will work itself out. Frankly, having an amazing defensive 1B isn’t worth having a poor hitter. You can put up with that at SS or C or CF, but 1B is for a slugger.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
I know people say that 1B is for a slugger, but to me i want a guy that can play D. I dont want to see a David Ortiz at first man, that guy can hit(especially hittin in the past few years) but plays louzy D. And yes there are other guys out there that can hit good and play better D, but this is how i look at it: The 1B handles alot of the outs, some are in dirt, some are plays he has to make, pitch outs, all that kind of stuff. I put alot of emphasis on a good glove at First. And with Kotchman great Eye and average hitting his D makes up for it in my eyes. CB i get what your sayin and thats how most people look at first base that its a sluggin position and im certainly not sayin its wrong or stupid to think that, im just tryin to explain why i am fine with Kotchman at first and why i like a 1B that plays fantastic D with solid enough offense.
braves#1
Casey Kotchman has been worth 2 runs defensively, and has lost nearly a run offensively. Victor Martinez has been lost half a run defensively, and worth 14 and a half runs offensively. This isn’t rocket science.
You know how much it would take to get V-Mart? Alot. And i think its gonna be tough to sit there and find a real good hittin, and solid enough defensive 1B for a 1 year deal on the free agent market. Maybe not, i haven’t checked out the 1B free agents yet, but i did hear that it was a weak class. Obviously we could trade for one, i guess depends who we could get and what we would have to give up.
And i still stand by my reasoning to want to keep Kotchman on this team until Freeman is ready which should be 2011 bigjoe. Never said it was rocket science but im standin by what i said cause thats what i believe and like.
braves#1
I just had this random thought so I decided to post it here, Why has there never been a player with a 100% vote into the hall of fame. are the voters that tough or do they have something against certain players. How can a voter seriously deny a player Like Willy Mays Hank Aaron Tony Gwynn and Roberto Clemente Etc. any thoughts?
by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jul 10, 2009 11:41 AM EDT reply actions
because they are minorities? That is my only guess. We still have ignorant people in this country who think a person’s skin color or nationality define them.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 10, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
that was my thought when I started to name those players
by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jul 10, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
That doesn't explain
guys like Ryan and Ted Williams who clearly deserve every ballot.
Pete Rose was actually banned from baseball for teaching Jeff Francoeur how to play. He made up the gambling stuff to hide his shame.
by VivaLosBravos on Jul 10, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Ripken as well
should have been unanymous, race had nothing to do with that one.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 10, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Ripken’s value was slightly overrated by his consecutive games streak. He was a great SS, but to mention him with the names listed above is foolish (IMHO). he is no where near the likes of Aaron, and Williams.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
That’s what I was telling those chumps in Baltimore! Hell, Chipper’s better than him right now.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
That's fair
but he was still a clear HOFer. Maybe not clearly unanymous (though, considering his other off the field attributes, I would argue otherwise).
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 10, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
well I value the HOF about as much a a big pile of dog crap… considering some of the bums that are in there now. Theres certainly little debate that Ripken’s resume merits induction into the HOF
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
There’s this retarded theory that some people have that since Babe Ruth didn’t get 100% that nobody should. People actually don’t vote for guys because of this. The HOF is ridiculous. I remember when Gwynn went in there were like 11 people who didn’t vote for him; in my opinion, those 11 should have immediately had their voting privlidges revoked because they have no idea what the HOF is about.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
That is exactly it
The Baseball Writers association folks, especially some of the older ones (I believe Furman Bisher might be part of that crowd) say that, since Ruth wasn’t unanymous, nobody should be.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 10, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
completely retarded of them
by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jul 10, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
i wasnt aware of that theory, if the voters actually do that they should lose there ability to vote
by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jul 10, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
In today’s world, I really think even the great Bambino would have trouble getting into the Hall of Fame. Let’s face it, some lived like he did, and still put the numbers up that he does, they would be spoken in the same breaths of Bonds and McGwire.
haha
a lot of the older players were like that. I can’t remember which of the many great Yankees it was, but I remember reading that his “most memorable moment” of his career was having a “president clinton style” moment under the bleachers at old Yankee stadium….
Players used to party hard, show up to games drunk. Of course, of these players, some of them were ridiculous anyway…
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 10, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I beleive that was Mantle…or at least thats my first guess. Second guess would be DiMaggio. But Mantle seems most appropriate
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
You may be right
I honestly don’t remember at all which one it was.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 10, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
One thing that Ruth had going for him that neither Bonds nor McGwire did is that he was universally loved. He was good to everyone, fans, kids, the media; I doubt he’d have any problem in today’s society.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
Beer and hotdogs
who doesn’t love that? 80 years (90 now?) doesn’t change beer and hotdogs.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 10, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Any idea
Why Ruth was not unanimous?
Pete Rose was actually banned from baseball for teaching Jeff Francoeur how to play. He made up the gambling stuff to hide his shame.
by VivaLosBravos on Jul 10, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
To add another important one
Ricky Henderson should have been unanymous.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 10, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
No doubt. 4th all time in WAR, I think.
Pete Rose was actually banned from baseball for teaching Jeff Francoeur how to play. He made up the gambling stuff to hide his shame.
by VivaLosBravos on Jul 10, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
The braves need to call up Chris Burke with there injurie problems lately they need a utility infielder that can play 3-4 positions
by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jul 10, 2009 1:35 PM EDT reply actions
Irrelevant to the braves but
Did you guys hear the giants are a top player for Roy halladay? Just imagine that rotation.
I did hear that
But I don’t understand it. The Giants resemble the Braves more, they need a bat. I don’t see why they would go after Halladay, though that would be an absolutely terrifying rotation:
1a+: Halladay
1a: Lincecum
1b: Cain
That’s a trio that is comparable to Glavine, Maddux, and Smoltz, and may even be better (if that is even possible)….
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 10, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
dare I say that better than the Braves Trio. For the sole reason that Power pitching is huge in the playoffs and thts what the Giants would be bringin. and remember they would also be throwing Randy Johnson at you in game 4 of the 7 game series.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Power pitching in the playoffs is another great reason why we should not trade JV…but, I digress.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 10, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably true
But, you have to admit, that 1995 WS against the Indians STACKED lineup….Glavine and Maddux were the better pitchers. Smoltz’s 1 WS game that year was one of the only October games that he didn’t pitch well in in his entire career. In their prime, there was no better.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 10, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
don’t forget about Avery…not only was that a great 1-3 punch, but add in that 4th and it was just downright nasty!
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 10, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Bumgarner/Wheeler
HAAAA!
Pete Rose was actually banned from baseball for teaching Jeff Francoeur how to play. He made up the gambling stuff to hide his shame.
by VivaLosBravos on Jul 10, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
that would be a ridiculous rotation
by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jul 10, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Frenchy is gone!!!
Pete Rose was actually banned from baseball for teaching Jeff Francoeur how to play. He made up the gambling stuff to hide his shame.
I have an idea...
we should trade FYF to the Mets for Ryan Church.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 10, 2009 6:50 PM EDT reply actions
This is a proven GM right here.
Pete Rose was actually banned from baseball for teaching Jeff Francoeur how to play. He made up the gambling stuff to hide his shame.
by VivaLosBravos on Jul 10, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Any GM
who can get POSITIVE Value out of FYF deserves a raise!
I think the Braves’ FO has some magic potion that they get other GMs to drink when they want to make a ridiculously one-sided deal.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 10, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
ummmmm...
Church
KJ
Medlen
to Toronto for:
Alex Rios.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jul 11, 2009 7:11 AM EDT reply actions
Something interesting is that, if we trade for Rios and could take on some of his contract, I think that would prevent the Phillies from getting Halladay. I’m not for sure if anyone had looked at it this way.
interesting...
if only they could get talent for Rios that would make Doc happy.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jul 12, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont think the Braves are gonna sit there and make a trade for Rios with there mind on Halladay NOT goin to the Phills. Nobody looked at it that way cause thats no way to look at trading.
braves#1
I’m never said that would be the sole reason we would make the trade. I was saying that, there may be a bit more interest. The Jays have already said that they will take Halladay off the block if they could shed some money. Rios just happens to be someone in which is have/should have interest. The fact is still there.
impact bat
that’s what we need,and Church is not!
Escobar+Kotchman+Medlen+2or3 prospect(excluding Heyward,Freeman,Teheran)
to CLE for:
V-mart+Laporta
AINT FUCKING HAPPENING...
#1…who’s playing SS for us? Escobar will not, and i repeat, will not be traded now. UNLESS we get a SS in return. which is NOT likely.
#2…why not just do: Kotchman, Reyes, and Acosta for V-Mart?
#3…We can probably get Laporta for Church and, say, Brandon Hicks. But where does the kid play. His D in LF is pretty bad. While his bat is legit, this would have been his 3rd trade in less than 3 years. Something tells me something is up with him in terms of attitude issues or that his bat is not really that good.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jul 11, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
This aint fuckin happenin...
Your #2 reason is severely flawed. No way Indians do that, V-Mart could get way more than that in a trade.
Your #3 reason is severely flawed as well. No way they do Church and Hicks for Laporta, thats absurd. Why do they want Church when they just traded away Derosa? Makes no sense they will want wyyyyyyy more. And dude Hicks aint all that, i know most fans on here love the guy and thinks he is gonna be a starter for us in the future but i dont believe it, nothin he does tells me he is gonna be a starter at the MLB level. Will him make it to the majors? He has a chance but im just not in the Hicks bandwagan, i just dont think he is all that.
braves#1
I think
it could get done for just Kotchman, Medlen and a Lower Prospect
by drumzalicious on Jul 11, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I THINK FW is done dealing
by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jul 11, 2009 7:22 PM EDT reply actions
hope not.
we could use a bat still and with gonzo going down a 8th inning setup guy
by drumzalicious on Jul 11, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
First, Gonzo is going to rest til the AS break. After that, he should be fine.
Second, I think we have in-house options to take that role over. Valdez was just called up. Moylan, EOF, and Logan can all do it.
really
wow. you have more faith in them than me. Moylan and EOF are two of the most relieved relievers in Baseball. Moylan is approaching his career high in appearances and he just came off of surgery.
The only guy im not worried about is Soriano but Gonzo, Moylan and EOF are not going to make it the whole season at this pace.
Valdez and Gomez arent as great as their AAA numbers imply
by drumzalicious on Jul 12, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
we'll need another bullpen arm
these guys are going to have dead arms come september, because we f’in can’t blow anyone out and each win’s a nail biter
how could u have thought he was a product of arlington.. he has mashed everywhere he has played… its his strikeouts and poor batting avg that has held him back in the past (and lack of defensive ability)
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
it wasnt me
i was saying we should acquire him for a while others were saying it was because of arlington
by drumzalicious on Jul 14, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Adrian Gonzalez
I know for the Braves the conversation probably would start with Freeman.
BUT
I wonder if they would take a package centered around Yunel Escobar?
Escobar
Kris Medlen
Casey Kotchman
Couple of Minor League players
They get a top SS in the ML offensively and defensively.
ML ready pitcher.
ML first baseman that is under control just as long and allows them to develop a 1B prospect.
After that im not sure what they would want from our minor league system.
Maybe they would be interested in KJ?
And what the hell do WE do at SS?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 16, 2009 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions
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