Braves trade Casey Kotchman to Red Sox for Adam LaRoche
by gondeee on Jul 31, 2009 3:55 PM EDT
in Braves Trade News
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PrintReports are that the Atlanta Braves have traded their current first baseman, Casey Kotchman, to the Red Sox for their former first baseman, Adam LaRoche. The deal was first reported by Jon Heyman of SI.com, then by NESN via this link. I had barely got done putting up the speculation post about this rumor, when it was confirmed to be true.
As I said in that post, this is not really a trade upwards, but more of a lateral move, and one that frees the Braves of any obligation to Kotchman beyond this year. Kotchman is under team control for a couple more years, LaRoche is a free agent. LaRoche is also one of Chipper Jones' best buds -- they own land together -- and it wouldn't surprise me if he was influential in this trade in some form or fashion.
LaRoche does represent an increase in power production over Kotchman, something that may have intrigued the Braves. He is also often referred to as a "second half" player as evedenced by his .773 first half OPS, versus his .899 second half OPS. His history with the orgainzation may also lead them to believe that he could be re-signed this off-season at a reasonable price. At the very least, there would be less risk in offering him arbitration.
More to come here as we find out.
[UPDATE: 4:15pm]
I just got the press release, and we get "cash considerations" along with LaRoche. So the Red Sox will be sending some salary our way, not sure how much yet.
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Freemannnnnnn
Reason we don’t need to resign him for more than one year. Reason Kotchman made good sense, 1 year left for Freeman to develop, good avg for a bottom of the lineup guy…Wren???
still have Prado
If Dunn walks 30 fewer times, he'll drive in 15 more runs. This is thanks to the scientifically proven formula: RBI = (this is nonsense) (I made it all up).
Here's a stat: Wins as manager: Dusty Baker, 1,162; Bill James, 0.
+1
I could absolutely see him there next year. He’s much better there defensively than 2B.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Not so fast
Heymans tweets that Haithcock was pulled from the lineup in Gwinett.
If Dunn walks 30 fewer times, he'll drive in 15 more runs. This is thanks to the scientifically proven formula: RBI = (this is nonsense) (I made it all up).
Here's a stat: Wins as manager: Dusty Baker, 1,162; Bill James, 0.
haha
Haithcock made me laugh this time…
A man walks into a meat shoppe and goes to the counter. The cashier asks, "Thinking about buying some meat?". The man replied, "No, I'm going to buy meat, I was thinking about punanny."
by bwellnjonesco on Jul 31, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Who starts at 1B tonight? Prado is hurt.
If Dunn walks 30 fewer times, he'll drive in 15 more runs. This is thanks to the scientifically proven formula: RBI = (this is nonsense) (I made it all up).
Here's a stat: Wins as manager: Dusty Baker, 1,162; Bill James, 0.
Inital thought is ‘fuck’. Analysis coming in an hour.
by bigjoe on Jul 31, 2009 4:00 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
It's on ESPN now...
Says that the Sox view Kotchman as more of a bench player and didn’t have a role for LaRoche. Probably wanted Kotchamn for late inning defensive help. Which still doesn’t make sense as to our reasoning. I can’t believe that there is nothing else that has come out of this yet…
he has tons more power and we need that desperately?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
On the bright side..
This bumps McCann to the 5 hole (probably), which I think we all can agree is a good thing. Defense is a bit over-rated at 1B and this gives us some more power.
by I-Miss-John-Rocker on Jul 31, 2009 4:04 PM EDT reply actions
why would they bump mccann to the five hole?
He’s absolutely the better hitter. I’d think Laroche slides in at five
...
Look at his stats batting 5th compared to 4th.
I remember somebody brought that up a few days ago.
by I-Miss-John-Rocker on Jul 31, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
there really isn’t that much of a difference in approach batting fourth to batting fifth, so I think that’s more just pure chance than something significant. It’s not like Yunel who went from the two to six spot..
I see your point, but..
Laroche has more power.. and McCann is just tradtionally suited for the 5 hole IMO.
by I-Miss-John-Rocker on Jul 31, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
McCann is probably our best hitter, it would make absolutely no sense to push him down the lineup in favor of a mediocre hitter.
You also want the most power in the 4.
LaRoche has got that.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Good God
Ladouche in the cleanup spot would really be too much for me to bear. I’d like him to either bat 9th or maybe 1st so at least he can’t hit into a double play the first time through.
Umm...
LaRoche’s DP% on his career is 12%. Kotchman’s is 16%, or 33% more often.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you keep it the way it is right now with Mcann hitting 4th and GA is hot so keep him 5th. Escobar can hit 6th and LaRoche hit 7th. Thats power up and down your lineup right there.
by AlRoBraves95 on Jul 31, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly, defense at 1B is not overrated...
it’s critical to a solid IF since they are on the receiving end of every throw. A bad defensive 1B makes every other infielder look worse, and a good one can make them look a lot better.
Really?
Defense at the position most likely to be involved in any play is overrated?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup.
Especially when there’s not THAT much difference between LaRoche and Kotchman anyway. These guys are both major league 1st basemen – it’s not like we’re talking about swapping Kotchman for a Dixie League 16-year old 1st Baseman.
by I-Miss-John-Rocker on Jul 31, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
OH, ok!
So there is no difference between the defensive capacities of any 1B in the majors. Thank you for the clarification.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions
This is going to be weird seeing him in a Braves uniform again
but I do like the move. Every year this guy is significantly better in the second half and he’s also a free agent after this season, which could mean Prado becomes the full time first baseman and KJ slides in at second.
JOKE OF A TRADE
This is a terrible trade. Why would Wren give away the best defensive 1B in the league for LaRoche? His past production is not an indicator of what he’ll do now. The Red Sox obviously saw something wrong which is why they let him go. Kotchman made two game saving defensive plays last night….and has made many more all year. His bat was even coming around. I just don’t like it. I hope LaRoche works out but I don’t like it.
Odd trade. Hopefully something else comes into play that the media hasn’t gotten their hands on yet.
His bat was coming around...
And he was slapping singles and doubles around the yard. LaRoche will end up with 25 homers. Kotchman will be lucky to finish with 12.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Move to the next thread, please......
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 31, 2009 4:05 PM EDT reply actions
Was this trade really straight up? No cash?
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 31, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, cash to us
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
And..........
Far more Ks and mental lapses on D!
he was considered a pretty good defensive first baseman when he was here
and I’d much rather have a significantly stronger hitting first-baseman who plays worse defense because as nice as having a gold glover at first is, it’s still first and the difference between above average and great really isn’t going to help your team as much as just about any other position.
Disagree wholeheartedly.
I’m glad we got LaRoche, but 1B is the position where a player is most likely to get the ball on a given play.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Which is funny...
Because his career DP% is 25% lower than Kotchman’s.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Incredible. A head-scratching trade in the middle of a pennant race. Can’t wait to see to full terms of the trade…
The BoSox are gonna let us win a game next time we play them, that’s the rest of the trade.
by BravesRaleigh on Jul 31, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
This seems alot like Bobby had a hand in this trade
Meanwhile, I feel like drinking.
by Sid Bream's Moustache on Jul 31, 2009 4:11 PM EDT reply actions
At least LaRoche gets to say “hey” to McLouth.
lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 31, 2009 4:12 PM EDT reply actions
maybe not in the second half….
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 31, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Shut the fuck up.
That is all.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, let’s be careful with adding too many Pittsburgh Pirates on this team. We all know how well they played together as a unit.
yeah, but Nate is legit
McClutch
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 31, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah.
Let’s send Gonzalez back.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Fuck it
I’m gonna go pretend I have a life.
Pete Rose was actually banned from baseball for teaching Jeff Francoeur how to play. He made up the gambling stuff to hide his shame.
What A Trade I Am Thrilled. The Only Position To Upgrade Was At 1B And RF
by Wanna Hate 14 Straight on Jul 31, 2009 4:13 PM EDT reply actions
i wish we still had Frenchy! Split LaRoche and Frenchy would of been really nice. We have to many left handed hitters………………
by AlRoBraves95 on Jul 31, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
The REAL question
Is will Laroche be holding any candle-light vigils for traded teamates anytime soon?
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 4:13 PM EDT reply actions
Hope not. I like the way our team looks right now.
by I-Miss-John-Rocker on Jul 31, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
What is cash's OPS this year?
by Sid Bream's Moustache on Jul 31, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
not the catcher Kevin Cash i think he meant money
by Wanna Hate 14 Straight on Jul 31, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
That is the point
Cash does not make us any better.
by Sid Bream's Moustache on Jul 31, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
HOW???
HOW IN GOD’s NAME DOES A PLAYER WITH WORSE DEFENSE, WORSE OFFENSIVE NUMBERS AND ONLY A SLIGHTLY BETTER OPS MAKE US A BETTER TEAM???
sorry for the all caps.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
doesnt a better OPS mean a better offensive player?
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 31, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
not necessarily
in this case, it means Laroche has more power than Kotch…the OPS’s are less than .020 apart though, so it is pretty much a wash. Kotch has him beat in all other slash stats.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno
I liked LaRoche…I also understand why this was not a logical move. I am just really confused by the whole thing personally. I am not at all sure whether I like it or dont’ like it…
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 31, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I am not sure if it will hurt us, but it certainly doesn’t make us any better, IMO.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Which worse offensive numbers are those?
His RBIs? Oh, and by the way, their career OPSes are 70 apart. Not a “slightly better” mark in my book.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
2009
263 .263 .526 .789
.282 .354 .409 .764
You tell me who is who.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
i wasn’t really asking…it was more rhetorical, but yeah. the bottom (better average, obp, worse slg and comprable ops) is the guy who is younger, under control, and cheaper.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Three months of baseball...
Don’t tell the story of a player’s worth and ability. I’m sure the Sox are making up the difference in salaries, and they helped us clear what will be a very crowded position in the next 1-2 years.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
crowded by whom? Canizares and Freeman???
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, certainly Freeman.
And by the time he’s ready, it strikes me Kotchman will still be good, Barbaro will as well, and Prado will need a place to play if my vision of Kelly as the long-term 2B is right.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
that should be a given.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
thats what i was thinking….
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 31, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Good thing we got this done today, there was no way anyone of LaRoche’s caliber was going to clear waivers….
…
….
…
…
…
…
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Sox gave us $$$
says DOB
7/24/2009 - "The Phillies are too far ahead in the NL East for the Braves to make a run." - Buster Olney
REMEMBER THAT BOYS.
Nice
I rec’d.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah.
Kotchman is gonna make a huge impact for them as a twice-a-week starter.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I still feel like there could be more to this deal
I mean, Just because DOB says something… Well, He also reported that Ken Griffey Jr. was a Brave… maybe he doesn’t have the whole story at all yet…
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 31, 2009 4:16 PM EDT reply actions
yeah, but Griffey was kind of an “Indian-giver” lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 31, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Normally I am not one for doomsaying and stuff
But we got thoroughly bitched by the Phillies and Marlins at the deadline.
Thank god we still have pitching.
by Sid Bream's Moustache on Jul 31, 2009 4:16 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah
We would have moved Yunel for David Eckstein and cash if we had some more time
by Sid Bream's Moustache on Jul 31, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
that would be dumb trade of the year
by Wanna Hate 14 Straight on Jul 31, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
………………
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 31, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah ok because Casey Kotchman had so much power right? Damn punchy-juvey slap hitter at 1B.
by Wanna Hate 14 Straight on Jul 31, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
SERIOUSLY!
He’s had like 5 homers in the last month! He’s almost up to a league-average slugging%…for a 2B.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
It wasn't close to funny.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Obviously.
I saw that rumor in about 30 places.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Remember that one time
after LaRoche was traded to the Sox and he said that he was glad to be on a team that wanted him?
Heh.
FW said earlier that he didnt want to 'disrupt the chemistry on the team'
maybe by adding Adam thats what he ment? if CK was causing problems Adam is very well liked? who knows?
i still think theres something else brewing
Again
making no sense.
“The Red Sox had a glut of left-handed bats, and sent Adam LaRoche to Atlanta, reportedly for Casey Kotchman (A LEFT HANDED FIRST BASEMAN)
This trade makes little sense on either side.
That statement was a bit silly.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I just updated the original post with this
I just got the press release, and we get “cash considerations” along with LaRoche. So the Red Sox will be sending some salary our way, not sure how much yet.
that makes sense hopefully like 5M
by Wanna Hate 14 Straight on Jul 31, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
hopefully 4-5 mil
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 31, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I bet it'll be like the Francoeur deal.
They’ll pay to flip the salaries back.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Kotchman was batting .280 with 6 HRS and u think hes Albert Pujols LMFAO
by Wanna Hate 14 Straight on Jul 31, 2009 4:22 PM EDT reply actions
LMFAO @ you thinking that.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
who?
who said OH NO WE LOST KOTCHMAN HE’S LIKE ALBERT PUJOLS!!!!
No one, right?
Headlining the Campaign for the return of Ryan Langerhans! MVP 2011!
by RichmondBraves on Jul 31, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
No1 did I am just saying you cant be too mad about this trade we upgraded at 1B in the power department. 1B and RF needed to be improved good job FW once again.
by Wanna Hate 14 Straight on Jul 31, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
well see about that
in about a week after you’ve had watching laroches long ugly swing wear on you for a while
compared to Kotchmans slapping the ball oppo for a single.
by Wanna Hate 14 Straight on Jul 31, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude!
Those are the most valuable hits in the world!
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure, we upgraded in the power department, but we downgraded in EVERY OTHER department.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
If it’s true we got some serious cash out of this deal, I think I’m fine with it. The only way it really didn’t make sense for me was the big control/monetary difference.
Still, I’d rather not see Freeman starting next year.
Prado.
He’s a good defensive 1B, and his bat is consistent enough to play there.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
not in team chemistry and a great clubhouse guy. His 2nd half numbers are great and he can pick it at 1B. Maybe none of you watched the Braves when he played for us.
by Wanna Hate 14 Straight on Jul 31, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
You mean back when he was in his prime, and cheap, and under control? Yeah, I watched the braves back then too.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
so he is 29…past his prime, more expensive than Kotchman and a FA in 2 months.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
…or B…
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Not even a B
http://www.scribd.com/doc/17870577/Rankings-073009
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Jul 31, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
if im reading that right… GA is really close to being a type A..whic would be awesome…
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
We won't offer him arb.
It would be really stupid.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought 26-31 was prime, with 28 being the most primed season…I know LaRoche’s best year was when he was 26, but he got traded afterwards to one of the worst places possible. A trade like that could surely explain the decline from age 26-29. Maybe a trade back to Atlanta can increase his spirits enough to put him back on track to how he played when he was younger.
A man walks into a meat shoppe and goes to the counter. The cashier asks, "Thinking about buying some meat?". The man replied, "No, I'm going to buy meat, I was thinking about punanny."
by bwellnjonesco on Jul 31, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
hopefully. I just don’t see it though. 06 was his year and I don’t think he will come close to that again, regardless of where he plays.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
His decline wasn’t that severe. He hit more doubles the next year, the new terrible team can explain atleast some of the decrease to the rest.
A man walks into a meat shoppe and goes to the counter. The cashier asks, "Thinking about buying some meat?". The man replied, "No, I'm going to buy meat, I was thinking about punanny."
by bwellnjonesco on Jul 31, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
27, actually.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
You must have only watched them when there was no possibility of grounding into a double play or striking out with less than 2 ours and a guy on third.
Kotchman grounds into far more DPs...
He runs like a snail.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
you didn't say it at all that way
And it depends on if you don’t value defense at all. If you don’t then yeah Adam LaRoche is a god.
Headlining the Campaign for the return of Ryan Langerhans! MVP 2011!
by RichmondBraves on Jul 31, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
………………lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 31, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not that we downgraded at first base, but we traded a guy who’ll be cheap for two more years to add a guy in his walk year. And the guy we got might be worse if you incorporate defense.
Well Freeman will start next year with Heyward in RF we are loaded.
by Wanna Hate 14 Straight on Jul 31, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Freeman shouldn’t be ready for next year. I wouldn’t want him starting. ideally, he’d be a midseason or September call-up next year.
Barbaros.
The way Wren is going……only he knows what’s next.
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 31, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
BRING UP THE YOUNG GUYS!!! THEY ARE READY!
WHY DO YOU THINK WREN HASN"T ADDED THAT BAT YET???
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
NICE
+1 for using my signature
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
it was in honor of you!
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I seem to recall this 19-year-old kid named Jones who did ok as a starter.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
So what were we going to do with Kotchman at $5 mil next year...
When Freeman is ready to take the job in July?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Peavy to the White Sox...again?
WTF?
7/24/2009 - "The Phillies are too far ahead in the NL East for the Braves to make a run." - Buster Olney
REMEMBER THAT BOYS.
As of a few weeks ago...
He was 50-50 to play this season. Obviously, that goes up if he’s got a postseason to play with.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Go pitch for Obama, Peavster!!! Oh, no wait…..don’t!!! No wait……do!!!!
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 31, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
If this trade works out then Wren really will be a genius, because right now no one who witnessed Ladouche actually play could like this trade for us. Yes, I know what his second half numbers have been. But I also watched the games. If it’s a clutch moment, he hits into the double play. If you just need him to make contact, he strikes out. When we played the Pirates earlier in the year and LaDouche would come up in a key moment, I laughed and felt very confident….and then he’d hit into a double play, just like he would for us. I loved it when we traded him for Gonzalez and don’t even feel that confident in Gonzo….basically I am just not a fan
This is so far off-base
In 2006, he had a 1.002 OPS in late and close games, almost 100 points over his total OPS for that season. He had an .892 OPS in games where the score was within four runs and that got better as the game got closer, up to a 1.134 OPS for tie games. The year before he had a 1.117 OPS with 2 outs an RISP and in late and close games his OPS was .973.
by was385 on Jul 31, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
You guys are hysterical
It’s funny how everyone on here hated the guy when he was with us because I remember him being very well liked when he was a Brave the first time around. He put up a .915 OPS with 32 homers the last time he was in Atlanta, including a 1.042 OPS in the second half. Every year this guy hits like a top 10 firstbaseman in the second half and yet the sky is falling.
You all castrated Wren when he acquired Kotchman because he didn’t hit that well and defense at first base wasn’t that big of a deal. Now we’ve got a better hitter (at least in the second half) and a pretty good defensive firstbaseman, and all of a sudden that defense is worth pure gold.
Don’t lump me into that group. I wasn’t a member of this blog then, and I am sure most of the people in here right now weren’t either….
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
LaRoche
is not a pretty good defensive 1B, let’s get that straight once and for all.
Also, I was a huge Kotch fan at the time of the deal and have stuck w/ him all the way, even when the majority of the guys here were trashing him in March.
cheer him on the pine then lol
by Wanna Hate 14 Straight on Jul 31, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
he really is though
He’s not as good as Kotchman and his range isn’t very good, but he turns a ton of throws each year that would get away from most firstbasemen into outs.
first of all, I really don't subscribe to defensive metrics
because two or three years ago, people were berating me and telling me how I was an idiot not to use defensive metric A and now the same guys are saying that metric A isn’t good and metric B is now the one that is absolutely correct.
Second, which metrics determine a guys ability to scoop balls at first?
D metrics aren't perfect
but they’re the best we have. Certainly better than ad hoc visual observation by a (no offense) non-professional.
UZR is pretty good for outfielders. I really don’t like it for infielders, and it’s near useless for 1B. The entire thing is dependent on range for players who are moving back toward first base on 95% of all plays in the field.
Well
I don’t have access to +/-, but I’d bet Dewan grades out Kotchman as a better 1B there too.
Look, I get that defensive metrics aren’t perfect, but they’re our only common ground for discussion. Some guy telling me on the Web that he played 1B for a few years and LaRoche is a good 1B means absolutely zero. There’s no common ground for discussion.
no offense taken
but I’ve played the position for ten years, stopping last year after my senior year of high school. I’ve got a pretty good knowledge with that amount of experience and studying of the position to understand the defensive requirements of the position.
whoa, whoa, whoa….
you are counting 6 years of AAU (AT BEST) experience in your argument???
I played SS for 9 years (and quit after HS). That doesnt make me an expert on how to play defense at SS. (Oh, and I was a pretty damn good defensive SS too – state awards, etc).
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I've been eating pizza for 20+ years.
And I still make the mistake of ordering Pizza Hut.
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah I am
I’m not just some bum who’s never played and just watches the game. And you know what, you probably know a hell of a lot more about playing SS than me and most of the other posters on this site.
I doubt it. Playing a position in HS and LL doesn’t make one an expert on MLB-level talent or skill requirements.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t deny that. But, I would think that MLB-level talent has the fundamentals pretty much down. It is the other stuff that seperates them from each other.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with you on that at just about every position
but not first. First is not an athletically challenging position, what it does take is really good fundamentals and footwork. Go watch Keith Hernandez in his playing days, I can’t think of anyone better ( I hate the guy as an announcer, but boy was he amazing at first). I don’t think you will ever see better footwork around the bag and especially on bunts. The position is all about fundamentals.
I don’t think it is any different. Every position requires a player to be fundamentally sound and have great footwork.
But whatever. This conversation is going nowhere fast. lol.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Andruw Jones has amazing instincts, footwork, and fundamentals
but he is a fatass now and I’m sure is pretty bad defensively at this point in his career. That’s the point I’m trying to make, if you have mediocre range at most positions, you really can’t be a good defender there, but that’s not true at first.
UZR
Actually thinks Andruw is super in his limited OF opportunities this year. It’s mostly in left, but a guy on FanGraphs was speculating that Andruw could still play a decent CF.
Hey that’s all fine and well, but it really doesn’t mean much to me. I’ll stick with the metrics, you stick with your personal impressions.
is there a metric that accounts for a firstbaseman's ability
to field throws from the other infielders? I’m completely serious on this, I do not believe UZR is but I’m not sure about some of the other ones because I’m not using my experience to say that he’s a great defensive first baseman, I’m using it to say that playing a good defensive first base is a lot more about footwork on throws and scooping balls (something at which Laroche is one of the best in baseball). Range is part of it but a ball that doesn’t get scooped generally has the same effect as one that the first baseman doesn’t get to.
Don't know
But how do you know that LaRoche is “one of the best in baseball” at scooping throws? Do you watch all 30 teams on a daily basis?
This is fundamentally the problem with visual observation of one’s home team player, even if it’s done regularly. Frankly, I think your AAU time may actually be a disservice when it comes to evaluating this skill. Most major-league 1Bs are probably exceptional compared to your experience.
I agree that they are, but what are you talking about?
How would having a good knowledge of proper footwork or what it takes to be a good defensive first baseman make me know less than you? You and the other guy I’m discussing it with seem to think that defense completely changes in pro ball compared to amateur ball. It really doesn’t and considering that first base has a ton more to do about good fundamentals than most positions (which are a lot more about instincts or athletic ability), I would argue that it gives me a pretty good knowledge of what the requirements are.
And how do we know that Yunel has one of the better arms in the game? Do you watch every team on a daily basis? How did we all know that Andruw Jones had some of the best instincts in the game? Did we watch every team every game? You can raise this question from almost everything. But I watch pretty much all Braves games and I watch a lot of Yankees and Mets games, and just random games, so I see a lot of different first basemen. That’s how I know. We’ve been spoiled with Kotchman, LaRoche, and Teixeira, but there are a lot of first basemen who really do have a ton of trouble at scooping balls.
but you werent even playing amatuer ball…you were playing little league and highschool. there is a huge difference in skills at the next levels.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
do you know what amateur means?
I don’t know if you think amateur means minor league but that would be considered semi-pro.
I do
Amatuer does NOT mean little league or highschool. It generally refers to summer leagues for college players, independent leagues and other such leagues. Not highschool or little league.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
that is part of amateur ball
but amateur refers to anybody not paid. Regardless, this is pretty much a moot point, but thanks for being obnoxious about it just for the sake of it even though you knew exactly what I meant.
Semi-pro?
No, the minors are pro, period. Every player on the roster is paid.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
And how do we know that Yunel has one of the better arms in the game? Do you watch every team on a daily basis? How did we all know that Andruw Jones had some of the best instincts in the game?
No, but guys who do that (scouts) said as much.
I have yet to hear of a scout saying that Laroche is a good defensive 1B.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
nope. But I have read scouting reports and listened to them comment on TV and radio.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
During his Braves days, I heard numerous accounts that he was one of the better firstbasemen at handling throws on TV.
and btw, here you go:
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/playerScouting?categoryId=154555
http://www2.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/players/Adam_LaRoche/
http://www.fenwaywest.com/2009/07/411-on-laroche.html
In fact, the only place I saw a negative report on his defense was from BP, which I’m sure they just took from a metric, which I don’t believe includes anything on his ability around the bag.
Wow...interesing highlights:
LaRoche is a Gold Glove-caliber defender and has even attracted comparisons to a young J.T. Snow. LaRoche moves well around the base and has excellent range. LaRoche is an average runner but is not a slug on the basepaths.
That non-slug part, particularly, is a big upgrade.
He’s very fluid around the bag at first base.
but he makes picks with ease, is very reliable on routine plays, and can still dazzle you with the occasional diving stop.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Because you evaluate off a baseline, yours. What seems exceptional to an AAU player isn’t really that special for a major league 1B.
And I know absolutely nothing about playing 1B. Not a thing. But that isn’t the argument.
and you're evaluating off what exactly?
Stats? You admitted yourself that you have no idea if a first baseman’s ability to field throws at the bag is included in any defensive metric (Which I’m arguing is the most important skill), yet you’re telling that he is absolutely not pretty good at the position based off of those metrics. How exactly does that work?
I'm w/ justin
This isn’t going anywhere, so my last post on the topic, then I need to get some lunch.
Look, I admit I cannot visually determine on an ad hoc basis which ML first basemen are defensively superior to the others. I am not a professional scout. (Unless, I missed something, neither are you.) That is why I rely on metrics.
I have no idea whether LaRoche is among the best in the majors at “scooping,” nor whether that is as important a contribution to a player’s defensive WAR as you claim.
My only point was that your decision to ignore defensive metrics because they may/may not include scooping and to go with your visual observations is imprecise, at best. How do you know LaRoche is among the best in the majors in scooping? I’ll ask again, do you watch all 30 teams on a regular basis
I'll answer again
Between watching mets, braves, red sox when I’m at school, Yankees games, and nationally televised games, I’ve probably seen close to every first baseman for at least a little and most for a pretty significant amount of time. Just like I know that Yunel and Furcal before him had amazing arms, Jurrjens has a very good change, and Lowe has a real good sinker, I know that Laroche is very good at picking balls out of the dirt at first. And if metrics don’t include the guy’s ability to field a ball, then I’d argue they should be as useless to you as you think my point is because they are incomplete at best.
If you are readily admitting that you don’t know anything about defensive metrics and how they work, then why are you even commenting on whether they are effective or not?
What offensive metrics adjust for quality of fielder? They aren’t perfect either so I guess we just shouldn’t bothering recording anything.
I know how they work
I just don’t use them or really take that much out of them because in two years, there is going to be a new metric and anyone who still uses UZR is going to be called an idiot because it’s not a good stat, just like all the other old defensive metrics (Rate2 anyone?). And again, how does something like UZR account for the first baseman’s ability to scoop balls or his footwork on balls around the bag. I played first base for about ten years, I’ve got a pretty good feel for the defensive requirements of the position.
he is a below-average defensive 1B.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I never liked Laroche
and I will admit, I dumped on Kotchman for a while.
But the fact of the matter is, he increased his performance level to the point where I consider him a better 1B then Laroche.
by Sid Bream's Moustache on Jul 31, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, everybody can speak for themselves I guess, but he sure as hell wasn’t well-liked by me when he was a Brave the first time around. I have no confidence in him putting up those big numbers with anything meaningful on the line, and I definitely did NOT castrate Wren for salvaging us a decent hitting great fielding first baseman for Tex the first time around. I do not believe that LaDouche will hit better than Kotchman from here on out (the D just makes it worse).
Really?
I will bet my shirt LaRoche OPSes higher and has better run-producing rates than Kotchman does over the rest of the year.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
if you havent noticed your sentiments are in the minority
so perhaps you are the one who is hysterical
The guys are pretty much dead even in terms of their offensive impact (Kotchman has been pretty hot lately…LaRoche not so much) and one guys is controlled for a much longer period of time more inexpensively.
We made a move that’s basically equal value for THIS season, and loses value greatly following this year.
Every year
the guy hits like a top 5-10 first baseman in the second half. It’s not some one year anomaly that made his numbers shoot up. From 2006-08 his numbers were always significantly higher the second half. I will pretty much guarantee that Laroche hits much better for us than Kotchman did.
Every year?
His career OPS in July is .908.
This year his July OPS is .504. That is a HUGE difference.
Trends are not absolute proof.
So wait...
A hot streak by Kotchman means that’s how good a hitter he is?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
When we’re talking about a time-frame of just two months, who’s hot will have a great bearing on which is the more valuable of two guys who basically equal hitters.
So two weeks of good hitting...
Implies he’s going to be great over the next two months?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh...
And freeing up $5 mil has plenty of value.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Peavy to Sox, Halladay to Angels?
Peavy…Has to approve it.
Halladay…Not liekly.
7/24/2009 - "The Phillies are too far ahead in the NL East for the Braves to make a run." - Buster Olney
REMEMBER THAT BOYS.
halladay was not traded
according to MLBTR
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 31, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
ya...
but Peavy is close to finalized.
7/24/2009 - "The Phillies are too far ahead in the NL East for the Braves to make a run." - Buster Olney
REMEMBER THAT BOYS.
by Scott Coleman on Jul 31, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Casey Kotchman is a bench player at best along with Ryan Church why dont u think the Red Sox will put him on the bench.
by Wanna Hate 14 Straight on Jul 31, 2009 4:30 PM EDT reply actions
what?
Casey Kotchman is going to be on Boston’s bench because Victor Martinez and Kevin Youkilis and Mike Lowell are all better 1B.
Headlining the Campaign for the return of Ryan Langerhans! MVP 2011!
by RichmondBraves on Jul 31, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Lowell is a better 1B thats funny he plays 3B and he is injured.
by Wanna Hate 14 Straight on Jul 31, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah he plays 3B.
Also 1B. You see, some players can play multiple positions.
Headlining the Campaign for the return of Ryan Langerhans! MVP 2011!
by RichmondBraves on Jul 31, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
don’t bother. You are talking to someone who thinks it was a mistake to trade Frenchy.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
you seriously need to stop posting.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah…..no errors in how many games…….well, yeah. technically. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 31, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
this would be a fun lineup for tomorrow
McLouth
Prado
Chipper
McCann
Esco
GA
LaRoche
Heyward
You guys feel me?
7/24/2009 - "The Phillies are too far ahead in the NL East for the Braves to make a run." - Buster Olney
REMEMBER THAT BOYS.
with Connie on the bench and no Norton!?!? yay!!!
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 31, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
no
Why rush Heyward. Makes no sense.
Headlining the Campaign for the return of Ryan Langerhans! MVP 2011!
by RichmondBraves on Jul 31, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah.
Speculative rosterbation=rushing a prospect.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
if that was the lineup tomorrow that would be rushing a prospect. Which was the point i made. successfully.
Headlining the Campaign for the return of Ryan Langerhans! MVP 2011!
by RichmondBraves on Aug 2, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, this.
If he’s ready, it’s not rushing him.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
but thats kinda a hindsight sort of situation…we only know we rushed him if he fails…so isnt it better to err on the side of caution
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Not really.
If he’s not ready, we move him back down. Do you think Schafer is destined for failure forever because he didn’t hit well for a few months?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
no because he “failed”…because he is a badass and didnt tell anyone he wrist was essentially worhtless… he didnt “fail” cause he couldnt hit he “failed” becuase he was hurt…
and i dont think him struggling and getting sent down is a destiny of failure… but id rather a player stays up when he gets up (hehehe, i shouldnt make that joke as a guy but its funny)
By bringing him up, him struggling, sending him down, and bringing him back up…. even if he is at the same level as compared to just letting him develop a little longer… you have lost sme time in his career… a month or two isnt a big deal, but it could be for one season.
I always err on teh side of caution on bringin a prospect up… esp when they are a cant miss.. as Heyward is…. im all for promoting him to AAA by AUG 15th and seeing how he does there and if he still rakes then its something we need to consider..
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Right...
So you give him a shot at every level and decide if he seems ready and feels comfortable himself.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
welll it seems everyone wants to being him up today… in 2 weeks if he hasnt shown any signs of slowing down at AA… promote him to AAA… he still hasnt shown that power we hear about… its doubles right now… I know those turn into HR… but itd be nice to see him hit for a bit more power outside of BP
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
He's 19.
It’s obviously a small sample, but his time in AA projects to 77 doubles and 23 homers over 162 games.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm happy to have LaRoche
But I’m upset it cost us Kotchman. I thought the deal was great, but when I learned Kotchman was leaving I wasn’t a fan of the trade anymore.
Time will tell
Headlining the Campaign for the return of Ryan Langerhans! MVP 2011!
If it’s more or less an even trade, could this simply be for team chemistry improvement with money to boot?
I’ll admit that I always liked LaRoche but I’ve also come to admire and appreciate Kochman.
I’m just gonna have to trust Wren and the Braves know what they’re doing and hope we get more details soon.
"Well behaved women rarely make history" ~ Laurel Ulrich
It’s basically even for the balance of this year…but we gave up a player we control next season for a player who’s going to be a FA. That’s why I don’t like this trade. We gave up a bit of long term stability…for what? We didn’t upgrade the position.
Yes we did.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably just shooting the breeze, but how hard would it be to sign LaRoche for one year or before (basically before FF gets the call)? FW and the Braves went out and traded back for him. After his issues with the Pirates and now that he’s a Brave again with Chipper, Mac, McLouth, etc…would he be willing to sign at a discount from his current contract?
Probably not hard, but would still cost more than Casey’s arbitration. It’s a rather costly lateral move.
Prado at 1B.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
So what do we do...
with Kotchman under control and Freeman ready to start in July?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Everyone who is sitting around screaming ZOMG FREEMAN IS GETTING THE CALL NEXT YEAR…you’’re having one crucial oversight.
Barbaro Canizares.
yeah. I’m not all that worried about the future of 1B in Atlanta.
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 31, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not. If we don’t resign LaRoche, I think Barbaro will be fine for one season. He puts up good numbers at every level of minor league ball.
will Laroche be a type A?
that would make 6 picks in the first 2 rounds of a DEEEEEP draft next year.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jul 31, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you have a recent projection?
Just curious.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Wrong...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/17870577/Rankings-073009
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Jul 31, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Whose list is this?
WTF is scribd?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Law fed some info to a guy who figured out the rankings formula
MLBTradrumors has been using it for about a year (thats where the link is from). It was dead on last season.
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Jul 31, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Those rankings are from ELIAS
they’re legit
Pete Rose was actually banned from baseball for teaching Jeff Francoeur how to play. He made up the gambling stuff to hide his shame.
by VivaLosBravos on Jul 31, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Just checking...
The link just weirded me out.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, no.
Elias doesn’t release mid-year rankings.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
It is the elias formula
and it was updated last night
"If I ever decide to do a book, I've already got the title...The bases were loaded and so was I."
-Jim Fregosi
by Stephen Schmidt on Jul 31, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
...Someone's approximation of their formula?
Also, given that the rest of this year will be about 20% of that value, and his typical second-half splits, I’d say he has a chance to improve that ranking.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I have to imagine that the Braves will make....
re-signing one of Gonzo and Soriano a priority. Probably Soriano…
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 31, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Prado, anybody?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
wow…Sox rotation now: Buerhle, Washburn, Peavy….others.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
washburn went to detroit
but white sox still look nice
Q: What's your worst habit?
Chipper: Probably the dip.
oh yeah…ooops!
thanks!
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I think I am sad....
and I know Garret will be. He’s losing his Angel-buddy.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
LaRoche next year
It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me, but the only thing I can think is that Wren thinks that “Bert” (our nickname for him back in the day b/c he looks like Ernie’s friend) will hit like the Crimedog for two months. Then we’ll offer arbitration which if he declines we’ll get a sandwich pick. If he accepts then we’ll have him for one more year and then Freeman will be (hopefully) ready.
I seriously don't know how I feel.
This deal is bittersweet for me. I was a LaRoche fan from the beginning, and was quite sad when he was sent to Pittsburgh after a 32 HR, near 90 RBI season, only to be replaced by Scott Thorman & Craig Wilson. Sure, we eventually got TEX, but how did that work out?
And I’ve liked Casey Kotchman since we got him, except for his apparent lack of pop. But I LOVE his glove, his patience at the plate, and he has shown some recent signs of adding that much-needed power. I like his attitude and his overall play.
But this trade confuses me. I don’t see the logic on either side of the deal. On one hand, I’m glad we got Adam back but NOT at Casey’s expense. I’m trying to keep an open mind and hope that Adam can get us 12 homers or so down the stretch.
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 4:46 PM EDT reply actions
Lineup next year
trade chipper to the astros for geoff blum and hunter pence
mccann to rangers for saltalamacchia nelson cruz and feliz
mclouth and mike gonzo to the mets for francoeur and carlos beltran
resign laroche
2b Prado
SS yunel
cf Beltran
lf Cruz
RF Pence
LaRoche
CF schafer
C Saltalamacchia
3b Geoff Blum
DAMN WERE GONNA BE GOOD
Um...I'll pass. But thanks for the input!
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
No Impact until next year
I really don’t think that this trade will impact our team for the rest of year very much. I do think that this, coupled with not dealing for a outfield bat is probably a sign that we are going to go with the youth movement next year with Heyward, Freeman, and maybe Schafer again. We have to remember that Soriano is a free-agent and he will more than likely need a pay raise from his 5.5 million for this year. And we need him.
Does anybody see Hohn actually being reprimanded by MLB for his shittiness? Or is justice in MLB a lost cause?
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 31, 2009 4:50 PM EDT reply actions
The latter.
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
supposedly, they asked for the braves to send them the tapes. They are at least looking into the situation.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
The fist bump was the tip of the fucking iceberg. If that STILL warrants no action, then the system is fucked.
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 31, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m sure he’s got a “guy on the inside” (which is a joke in itself), who equally hates the Braves, and will let him off with a “stern warning and fine.”
lmao
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 31, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
That was in the afternoon.
By the evening, the crew chief said it had already been looked into.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA BAHAHAHAH
oh wait that isn’t funny.
Headlining the Campaign for the return of Ryan Langerhans! MVP 2011!
by RichmondBraves on Jul 31, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Naturally.
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jul 31, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry for this
http://www.talkingchop.com/2009/7/21/957315/who-are-your-favorite-non-braves#18504189
I somehow feel responsible.
"Here comes Bream! Here's the throw to the plate! He is...safe! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win!...Braves win!"
UUUGGGHHHHHH!
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you guys serious?
Everyone’s saying bad trade, bad trade. It makes perfect sense to me. The thing that was most missing in our team was power and Laroche gives us that. We don;t need Kotchman’s .280 average and 8 home runs a year, even if he is the best defensive 1B in the league. I’d rather have a guy who hits .240 and 25+ HR’s with plenty of doubles. That is what we need. Not to mention Laroche ALWAYS turns it on in the second half and he’s close with Chipper and Bobby. I think he’s going to do well for us.
Depends on how many more games we play with Hohn’s crew. They could seriously take us out of the Wild Card race, and fist-bump about it with MLB behind our backs.
far-fetched? I wish….
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 31, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn straight
Laroche is not a 40 HR guy, but I’m gonna guess he has a good chance at hitting for more power than Kotchman, especially now that he’s back in Atlanta where I would think he’s wanted to be all along. I like this move. It shakes things up a bit. Sitting on our hands would not have gotten us into the playoffs, imo.
I really do hope you’re right. I can picture it working out and him turning it on. I really just think it’s gonna be a lot more brutal double plays though.
Kotchman hit a few of those too, he’s pretty slow. The one thing people fail to understand that singles don’t do anything if there’s not a guy on 2nd or 3rd. We have a lot of guys that hit singles and we constantly end up with guys on and nothing to show for it. Also, rallies in the later innings and with 1 or 2 outs generally requires power. Not conesecutive singles.
This is true….but as someone who watches just about every game, LaRoche was a guy who always gave you that feeling that if it was a clutch situation, he was gonna do the worst thing possible. I remember rooting for him to strikeout time after time rather than hit into a double play, and he would always hit into a double play. I admit that my perception is largely subjective, but I just am not happy to see the guy back. I of course hope to be proven very wrong.
Your feeling is stupid.
His close and late splits are great.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
+A million!
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Like the kind Kotchman grounds into 33% more often?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d like to say, how is laRoche a big bat? He wasn’t 3 years ago, so how is he now?
Yunel is the Queen of Hearts
32 HR & 90 RBI isn't big enough for you?
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
No prob... =)
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
His last year in Atlanta.....
32 homers, 90 RBIs.
.285 .354 .561 .915
FYL
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously
I nearly wet myself. I just wish the fake deal didn’t have Schafer in it, then I would have seriously blown a wad.
dude i was ready to run through the streets naked screaming in joyous victory at the thoguth of Votto on our team…
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
mmmm
you naked….
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
if you haven’t seen swo naked then, yeah! You are missing something!!!
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
i was laughing at all the idiots believing it.
Headlining the Campaign for the return of Ryan Langerhans! MVP 2011!
by RichmondBraves on Jul 31, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
It was really believable that the Reds traded Joey fucking Votto for Schafer and some scrub.
Headlining the Campaign for the return of Ryan Langerhans! MVP 2011!
by RichmondBraves on Jul 31, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
considering Schafer has pretty high upside and Laroche fills in at 1B.. and i beleived there would be more to the deal… like a pitcher from us… its at least conceivable… I mean the Reds are kinda dumb
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
this bat Taveras first every game he plays and he cant crack 330 OBP
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Plus
We know Dusty likes his vets, and they just dealt a heapload of talent for Rolen. Yeah, it was a well-executed fake out, for sure.
Because LaRoche is a scrub...
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
in comparison to Votto
yep
Headlining the Campaign for the return of Ryan Langerhans! MVP 2011!
by RichmondBraves on Aug 2, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Kotchman Quotes.....
“You’ve been traded already so you’re a little more used to it,” Kotchman said. “I’m a little surprised but not overwhelmingly surprised.”
“It’s been a privilege to play for Bobby Cox and his staff,” Kotchman said.
He really got into a few this last month too…..but he really is hot as much as he’s cold (not defensively, obviously)
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 31, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
oops
to finish, a lot of ppl are talking itsa power upgrade, but is that really a necessary thing at this point? I mean, Kotch was starting to heat it up and while he prolly won’t hit 20 HRs, as long as ppl are on base and he continued to hit 2Bs, doesn’t that score runs too? Am I mistaken that, other than the FLA series, we’ve been doing fairly well outscoring our opponents since the ASB? I’m simply not sure that i really like this move. Other than making room for Prado to man 1st or maybe Freeman next year, it seems fairly even. No real upgrade. Give up a few BA pts for a 12 more homers this year. Just IMO. I’ll need more time and info to really judge how i feel.
Kotchman would have been lucky to finish with 15 HRs.
That is not acceptable for a 1B. Oh, and as for how well we’ve been outscoring our opponents:
— After going 10-3 while averaging 5.7 runs during July 7-22, the Braves are 2-4 with 26 runs in their past six games, and 19 of those runs came in the two wins in that stretch. They scored 1, 0, 3 and 3 runs in the four losses.
—O’Brien
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank You
Man, I feel like the only person saying these things.
Yes.
Pretending there is nothing wrong and we’re going to win every one of our games the rest of the way in spite of our recent issues seems to be the TC way. I’ve been yelled at for suggesting we might have problems.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Here's a question that should have been asked a lot earlier in this thread
Why did we make a marginal at best move, when we still have Kelly Johnson on this team and could have moved him for something we needed. I guess his value probably isnt real high right now but other than that i see no reason.
maybe because we see him as our future 2b.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Then why post?
It seems you’ve answered your own question. I, for one, am glad we still have KJ. And I don’t care if I get flamed for it.
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
why trade KJ when hes good and young
by Wanna Hate 14 Straight on Jul 31, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Prado Maybe?
if you have two talented players at one spot and a lack of something else it makes sense to trade one to get the other.
Prado can play anywhere.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
(almost)
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
cant play SS, I dont think
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Not much or very well...
But he has done it.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think anybody wants him
He’s incredibly streaky and still has pretty shoddy numbers for this year. People aren’t sure if his wrist is still hindering him. Not to mention that we’re still pretty far out of the playoffs so I don’t know if it would be wise to sacrifice a lot to make a push.
pretty far out of playoffs huh i doubt it
by Wanna Hate 14 Straight on Jul 31, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
We are pretty far out of the division race and there are quite a few teams above us in the wild card race, which makes the games back much more daunting. Especially if we can’t win series’ against teams we’re competing with like the freaking Marlins.
7 games out of the east with 9 left vs the Phills we can make it up
by Wanna Hate 14 Straight on Jul 31, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
4 games out of wildcard behind teams we are better than maybe u will change ya mind after the sweep of LA
by Wanna Hate 14 Straight on Jul 31, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
i didnt know this was a school project
by Wanna Hate 14 Straight on Jul 31, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not,
but your comments and opinions are better respected when you present them in proper fashion. I don’t know if you care about other poster’s respect, but it helps if you are grammatically/mechanically correct.
You’re still okay with me, though.
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
**correction**: posters'
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
We sure proved we’re better than Florida
Soriano blew a save he was due and it happens and we cant win when Bill Hohn umpires. R u a closet Phills fan?
by Wanna Hate 14 Straight on Jul 31, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
at what position? wow i only see a small one in RF.
by Wanna Hate 14 Straight on Jul 31, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Chipper’s been inconsistent, Mclouth is struggling, RF is mediocre, a complete lack of power across the board. Did everyone just forget what our offensive numbers were before the breake?
that was when KJ was starting at 2B over Prado Schafer in CF over McLouth and Francouer was slumping in RF. But Chipper has been hurt for awhile but hes a great hitter I would not worry about 3B.
by Wanna Hate 14 Straight on Jul 31, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Clearly.
Because not rationalizing a series where our only win came in extras makes you a Phillies fan.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
this feels weird
but +1
Headlining the Campaign for the return of Ryan Langerhans! MVP 2011!
by RichmondBraves on Jul 31, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Better than?
How do you figure? We obviously don’t have a better record.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
There are only 4 teams ahead of us.
And in the WC chase, that is not many. Just one or two good weeks and we can easily be at the top. A far cry from a couple years ago when we were 6 GB in the WC with about 8 teams ahead of us. The WC is still very doable. The East, not so much, but not impossible when we play the Phillies 9 more times.
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
It means that all four of those teams will have to lose 5 games more than us over the course of the end of the season. It’s more daunting than it sounds. There’s a reason no one is picking us as the favorite to win it.
Okay...3 good weeks.
I don’t want to get into semantics with you, but remember that the Mets gave up how many games in 3 weeks for the past couple seasons? My point is that it can be done, and it is not far-fetched.
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
FWIW, some of the guys on ESPN were picking us before the Marlins series.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
...And then that series happened.
What’s your point?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
my point
was that some people ARE picking us to win the wc, contrary to what the poster whom I was replying to said.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
WERE
if we’re using capital letters in the proper tense.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
we lost two of three
THE SEASON IS OVER WE ARE HORRIBLE LET’S GIVE UP.
Because one series=the whole season.
Headlining the Campaign for the return of Ryan Langerhans! MVP 2011!
by RichmondBraves on Aug 2, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Hasn't that happened twice in a row now?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 3, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
we lost two series in a row
THE SEASON IS OVER OMG ABANDON SHIP
Headlining the Campaign for the return of Ryan Langerhans! MVP 2011!
by RichmondBraves on Aug 3, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Kelly and Martini are the freaking ying and yang. It’s unfair that we have both as is. Which makes me happy.
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 31, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Final thoughts...
If we get “normal” second half LaRoche numbers this year (big if) this trade could work out for us. He is obviously a defensive downgrade, but most people consider 1B the least important defensive position on the field. If we don’t get the “normal 2nd half LaRoche” I think we got screwed and we’ll have to start from Square 1 this offseason to find a new 1B. Either way, I don’t think this is a monumental swing either way. Both players are basically mediocre players.
LaRoche’s pre and post all-star splits over the last 3 years.
Pre – .247 .326 .449 .775
Post – .314 .374 .578 .952
Waiting patiently for sarcastic remark from....
justincredubil02
Why? Why was that necessary? If you present a well-though-out idea like that, I cannot disagree with it. I only disagree with people who obviously are lacking in the facts department.
For what it is worth, I agree 100% with your sentiment here.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Just kidding man relax.
I like a good arguement with you.
The 1B for next year is on the roster...
Martin Prado.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Gigantic.
952 isn’t bad, either. Especially if we’re paying Kotchman money for it.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you think he has enough power to be a full-time, "power-hitting" corner infielder?
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
that never stopped Casey Kotchman.
Headlining the Campaign for the return of Ryan Langerhans! MVP 2011!
by RichmondBraves on Jul 31, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
It stopped us from keeping him,
and from him finding a permanent home. I’ll miss him, though. I’m still cautiously optimistic about Adam’s 2nd half prowess.
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
His bat is consistent.
Moreso than Kotchman, IMO.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
and given that we've got plus power up the middle...
We don’t need quite as much from our CIs.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
sure thing
Yunel & KJ/Infante can make up for it
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
And Nate.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
w
we have plus power up the middle… since when?
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
In this day and age,
you still don’t expect a whole lot of power from SS & 2B. Yunel & KJ hit around 15 HR a year. It’s relatively plus.
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
As stated above and below...
Escobar, Infante, Johnson, and McLouth have above-average power for the position.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah yes,
how could I forget about Nathaniel?
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
wait….aren’t you the same guy who was with me back when Prado first got the starting job at 2B when we were warning everyone that his numbers would come down because he is not an everyday player??? what made you change your mind?
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
No, I believe they will.
I also believe Kotchman isn’t a very good hitter.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Further...
My main gripe with Prado as the everyday 2B is that his defense there is awful.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
is this a joke?
The Chicago White Sox acquired Jake Peavy from the San Diego Padres for four players.
The Sox sent left-handed pitchers Aaron Poreda, Clayton Richard, and right-handers Dexter Carter and Adam Russell.
Yunel is the Queen of Hearts
its true and he waived the no trade clause
by Wanna Hate 14 Straight on Jul 31, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
padres just got basically nothing AND peavy waived his no trade clause…
Yunel is the Queen of Hearts
So where in your deck of cards does LaRoche land?
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Kotchman was the Jack of Clubs so I might just put him there, he does have some pop
Yunel is the Queen of Hearts
But he has more pop than Casey
so maybe a Queen of sorts?
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
lookin forward to it
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
u realzie that Poreda is a pretty highly touted prospect..Carter is a good pitcher in the lower minors with high upside, and RIchard has pitched pretty well this year in his frist taste of the bigs.
Not to mention when we talked it inlcuded peavy with us fro 2009, which doesnt happen for this deal… so Peavy’s value is lowered.
The Padres got a pretty solid haul considering Peavy is on the DL..
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Agreed
However, it’s a little odd for Towers to go for pitching given that Petco turns basically anyone into a solid #2-3 (Chad Gaudin, anyone)…
im not saying its a great deal.. but its different than what we offered, because the sitaution is different. I like the deal for the Pads, becuase im high on Poreda and RIchard… I dont know enough abotu Carter to speak of his future.. but i know he has some nice upside.
I do agree that they were better served to add position players or at least 1 position player…but to each his own
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Yeah, I pretty much agree with all of this. Richard has a sweeeeet arm, and Poreda’s no slouch either. I guess Tower’s really wanted pitching, or maybe Kenny Williams was the only guy who was willing to give up anything halfway decent for a guy who’s on the shelf with no clear timetable for his return.
i like Poreda more than Richard… but thats purely because Richard is at best a 3 (which is still pretty nice)
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Hmm
Yeah, I have a really good feeling about Richard, but the conventional wisdom on him is #3/#4 as a ceiling (I think we could see a nice K/9 jump when he switches leagues and the possibility that he morphs into a #2).
Poreda’s lack of secondary stuff could be his downfall.
...and could be for the rest of the year.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
well they thingk mid Aug…. but ur absoltuely right with his injury he might be back… its a bad trade from teh CWS standpoint.. but w.e im not a sox fan so
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
The last update was that there was a 50-50 shot...
as of a couple weeks ago.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
they got alot and he was injured making lots of $$$
by Wanna Hate 14 Straight on Jul 31, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
God clearly hates the trade… its been raining since news broke out that Klutchman was traded
Yunel is the Queen of Hearts
funny, the skies cleared as the deal was made.
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Weather happens. Bring an umbrella.
8 P
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 31, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
you poor soul.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
im in boston to from Dorchester u?
by Wanna Hate 14 Straight on Jul 31, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
youre not getting it...the guy said "funny the skies cleared as the deal was made"
and i said “in boston”.i wasnt talking about you my friend
I’m catching up here, but I believe one area this trade will be a benefit to us is in speed.
I like Kochman, but I’m sure his speed was not bulleted on his “skills list” in the scouting report.
If most things are pretty much equal, at least we may gain more bases if LaRoche is on base and the guy behind him in the order gets a hit. I personally recall a lot of times Kochman got the stop sign at 3rd when another runner wouldn’t have.
"Well behaved women rarely make history" ~ Laurel Ulrich
yes, he is a speed upgrade,
but its like upgrading from a snail to a hermit crab
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
This post made me remember LaDouche slowly galivanting around the bases to get inexplicably thrown out at home to cost us a crucial run in the Houston series the last time we were in the playoffs. I know he hit a grand slam that game and I still hate him for it. The guy just always seems to do the wrong thing at the wrong time. Better power or second half numbers aside, a guy who does the wrong thing at the wrong time is not the thing you wanna add to a team that has been clicking very well for a while now. It’s like putting a hole right back into an offense that finally got going once rid of all its holes.
u have yet to post anything meaningful… only things that lack factual evidence…. complaining about his GIDP (despite the fact he does it less frequently than Kotchman)… and making a retarded nickname “LaDouche”… grow up and actual make an argument against the guy that is based on some information not third grade insults and ignorance.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Sorry to have offended you – I’m not trying to write a thesis here based on statistics, I’m just saying as someone who watched just about every game that the guy played for the Braves, I am not happy to have him back. Did you watch him play? Were you confident that he would do anything other than the worst thing possible when he came up? Will you be now?
well considering he had an OPS in the 900s im pretty confident in his ability to contribute offensively, based on his time as Brave… I think the trade is a downgrade… because next year we wont be as good… and our depth is reduced. I assume Prado will play 1B more, meanign we lose our second best bench player. Assumign KJ plays second. If KJ cant play 2B, cause he sucks, Prado will play 2B and we need a 1B.
This year is a wash.. but i dont know what we are plannning for next year because i dont want to rush Freeman.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
So you hoped Prado would stay on the bench?
If Kelly+Prado>Prado+Kotchman, why the hell not?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
im not sure what you are asking… Im a beleiver in KJ’s track record… and i think Prado is most useful on the bench in terms of our depth..but if you can rephase ill answer better, hopefully
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
You want Prado on the bench.
But if he’s one of our best 8 hitters and he can capably play a position (which, strangely enough, he can’t at 2B), why wouldn’t you want him starting?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
i dont buy his bat as much as others… he hasnt shown this ability before and i feel its a bit fluky… ill have to be convinced if he keeps it up… but id say Kotchman is better for a full season… and my biggest reason is
If Prado is playing first and Chipper goes down… who plays 3rd (infante, and we dont have any other utility guy to take over)… with Kotchman we can rotate Prado in and have him play 4-5 days a week at either 2B or 1B or 3B…he is still in the lineup almost daily and our bench depth is real strong…
Also, If Prado is our 1B, who plays 2B if KJ falters (i think KJ should be our 2B but i could be wrong)..
my reasoning is based off the contingencies of injuries and such… Ive like Kotchman all along… because im big on defense (although admittedly Prado is close to as good so )
in closing im talking out of my ass and will now stop
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Conrad?
I mean, I really wouldn’t worry about bench flexibilty for ‘10 in July ’09 as one of your primary concerns. And hey, weren’t we a Kotchman or Jones injury from this emergency once Prado won the job? If we need to move Prado, shouldn’t we be able to bring up Barbaro?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
i guess.. i was just a big fan of Prado playing the super utility role and im still gettin used to the idea of him as an everyday player… Conrad could be the next in line for the utility role, but he has never done it consistently in the majors…
and the reason we would be in the emergency is because KJ faltered… if that happens next year… wed be in a bit of trouble and id liek to prevent that as much as possible….
Plus as i mentioned im a fan of defense apparently Barbaro doesnt beleive in it .. .so im not as high on him
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
But...
The only reason Prado ever even had a shot at that super utility role was because Infante went down. He does the same thing really well. And I’m sure we’ll pick up his option at a $2.25 mil cost.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I concur.
Infante might have taken the 2B job before Prado if he had never gotten hurt.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I watched him play.
I was confident he’d hit well on average (as his statistics suggest.) Given his history, I will continue to do so.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey, I certainly do hope that you’re right. Still hate the trade but I have been a big fan of Frank’s moves to this point so I do feel some reason to be optimistic about this one also. It is somewhat jarring when your team trades back for your (non B.J. Surhoff) least favorite player who you’d thought you were previously rid of
And I’m not sure what was so lacking in facts about that crucial play in the playoffs – did that not actually happen? I’d say as a response to anyone thinking that LaDouche is a speed ugrade, that’s pretty accurate.
A single instance...
does not tell the tale of a player’s overall ability.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
It's the only one you've pointed out.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Glad I used the word “may” – knowing that if I state anything I can’t back up with facts ….well you know.
I was hopeful LaRoche wasn’t as slow… oh well, I still like him being a Brave again and will be rooting for him to help us WIN.
"Well behaved women rarely make history" ~ Laurel Ulrich
He's not as slow.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Has tonights lineup been posted yet ?
by Wanna Hate 14 Straight on Jul 31, 2009 5:36 PM EDT reply actions
Wow, Bill Hahn is getting coverage on PTI for his actions against our Braves
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 5:37 PM EDT reply actions
THey're talking about the Hohn bump on PTI
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
Wilbon is calling his participation enthusiastic and says he should be suspended
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
That was the first time I had seen Chipper's reaction
and it was priceless
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Can’t get to a TV now, can someone post a link later?
by blitzerlover on Jul 31, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Not really link-worthy.
Kornheiser said he got caught up, Wilbon said his enthusiastic participation in the bump and his behavior should get him suspended and off of Braves games. It will be on at 6:37 on the Deuce.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
but suspension-worthy
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 31, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
excellent. points for saying "the deuce"
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jul 31, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha...
I never refer to it as anything else. El OO is how I refer to the new college wing.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
fail on the link: http://www.talkingchop.com/2009/7/31/971241/if-every-braves-player-was-a-card
Yunel is the Queen of Hearts
So where's Adam LaRoche?
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Personally I really like the move. I know Laroche is glad to be out of Pittsburgh and I don’t really think Boston was a fit for him. He’s gonna love being back with Chipper and Bobby and I really see him turning it on when he gets here.
I want your crystal ball.
I hope you’re right!
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Plus
I don’t think any of you guys would be making this kind of fuss if Kotchman hadn’t hit the few homers and doubles he’s had recently. It’s like his last couple weeks made you all forget about his actual lack of power.
by pancanbra on Jul 31, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
THIS!
+999999999999999999
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
this
this is honestly the only reason i’m upset, I can honestly say i hated kotchman up until the last few weeks when he started playing like he should be
I still wouldn't call it a lack of power,
because when he gets into one, he GETS INTO IT. I think “developing power” would be more accurate. I see Casey as a consistent 15-20 HR guy as he continues to play the game.
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, having power and being able to hit homeruns are two different things. He still is more of a singles hitter than anything. He only flashed power during his rookie season and has yet to show the ability of hitting more than 10 homers in a season.
Fair enough
I actually liked LaRoche in ATL, and I’m glad to have him back. But like I said earlier, not necessarily at the expense of Casey Kotchman.
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry...
You don’t suddenly develop power at this point. It’s an approach and mindset issue, too.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
funny, because I WAS defending him, even before his recent power surge. HRs are over-rated in terms of making a good hitter.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Is SLG%? Is ISO?
Kotchman is a slap hitter. And 1B is not the place to put up with that.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I do hope you’re right question my own reaction some because I am usually the eternal Braves optimist/positive guy – although it’s much more based on how much I did not enjoy watching LaRoche play in Atlanta than any tender feelings I had for Kotch.
I don't think the specifics have been officially released,
but people are musing about $4-5mil
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I must be confused...
and I apologize. People were discussing. He’s MAKING 5 million this year. I’m sorry.
Instead of sarcastically criticizing me, try just pointing it out in a sensible way, and then showing me the correct figure. I was only going on what others had been saying earlier, and I got my numbers mixed up.
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
?
We gave money in that deal.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I would guess...
That we’ll get enough to cover the difference between Kotch and LaRoche. They’ve obviously got the cash.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
http://bravesheart.com/2009/07/31/adam-laroche/
My analysis, which lacks people yelling at each other and being idiots….
if u dont have idiots why would we go there?… with no idiots… you can’t create inventive new ways to insult people and threaten their gentalia and thats my favorite part
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Jul 31, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jul 31, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
what the heck are all these crazy stats?
ISO? UZO? WAR?
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I like that analysis and pretty much agree with all of it, although I feel a great deal of personal emotional baggage with frustration at Adam’s play here washing back over me in waves today. I’m not sure I have much faith in his whole second half performance thing but would love to be wrong.
I wonder if it is in fact a possibility that we’ll shift Prado over to play first more, opening back up more playing time for Kelly while still keeping Prado in the lineup as a regular. My guess would be no for the most part – I think it’s more likely that Kelly will get a decent amount of playing time at Prado’s expense, which I disapprove of.
Interesting note about the Turner Field splits.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
see Connie/BJones/Blanco even
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 31, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
while we’re at it, why don’t we just send down Diory and DFA NOrton and bring up REAL players along the lines of Brooksy/Burke and those two or Barton
Yunel is the Queen of Hearts
Really?
Brian Barton and his 727 AAA OPS?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Has anyone already suggested...
starting Kelly at 2nd and platooning Prado and LaRoche?
Pete Rose was actually banned from baseball for teaching Jeff Francoeur how to play. He made up the gambling stuff to hide his shame.
Not.
I don’t know that people are sold on KJ having it “back” yet.. But if Bobby thinks he does, the platoon splits for those guys suggest it could be a very good move.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Prado at 1st or 3rd, over 2nd.
But once Infante comes back, it’s one of those “problems” that you can laugh at.
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 31, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Factual.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Gonna weigh in....
here. Hoooorayyyy. One of the sweetest swings in baseball.Big, looping, but my oh my when Adam is hot….he can carry a baseball team. Kotchman was solid, but could not , even when sizzling. I love this acquisition and think it is the best so far this year. Lefty bat or not, Adam is where he should be. Go Braves!!!! To all the wizards and their stats here… Frenchy is playing much better than Church, and Jason Bay is looking pretty bad these days……hope I spelled everything correctly
I like your sense of humor (...wizards and their stats... / ...hope I spelled everything correctly)
But I share your optimism. I’ll just miss Casey. I don’t know if I’d go as far as saying Adam can CARRY a team, but he sure can be one of the main cogs in the machine. *fingers crossed*
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Frenchy can kiss my ass. He would have never been playing the way he is in Atlanta. He definitely needed a change of scenery and probably needed to get away from TP. I still don’t regret the trade, because Church thus far has been an upgrade defensively.
TP had nothing to do with it.
He’s a little bitch. Neither Pendleton nor anybody else can change that.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Francoeur has had 50 ABs...
Let’s take a look in two months.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
CHIPPER on ESPN
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 6:24 PM EDT reply actions
Says he would vote in Barry Bonds for the HOF
because he would have been in Cooperstown, regardless. He however stated that when it comes to the guys that used the juice to elevate their game to become borderline HOF’ers, he would have a hard time voting them in. This was all in regards to Manny/Ortiz’s names popping up in the 2003 report.
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn.
My recap was being typed. ;)
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
ha...we are right there.
pointing two fingers from my eyes to yours repeatedly***
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
That warms my heart.
No, seriously.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Laughing out loud.
Cool…it’s fun to have a PIC. I’m hoping we can get a win tonight to kind of lighten the general mood around the board.
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
From the DOB story
The Braves also receive cash from Boston to cover the difference between the remaining money owed LaRoche, who has a $7.05 million salary this season, and Kotchman, who’s making $2.885 million.
So we’re paying Kotchman money for LaRoche for the rest of the year.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
and so we are getting about $4 million from Boston.
So, my figures were correct earlier before someone rudely made fun of my comment. I feel vindicated! Ha.
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Not paying for the full season though
Will only be the difference in salary for however much season is left I think.
True.
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
It's actually about $1.6 mil.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
And that's obviously prorated from the yearly salary, correct?
I think we’re speaking the same language, different dialect. I was speaking in terms of the whole season, while others are speaking for the 2nd half of the season.
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes.
That is the difference between what he and Kotchman will get from now until the end of the season.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
So for those of you who caught it,
what do you think of Chipper’s comments on ESPN in regards to PEDs & HOF caliber players?
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 6:34 PM EDT reply actions
pretty accurate. I was HOPING they would do a segment on the ump situation….
This might sound fucked up, but if I was given the chance to plug Hohn with no evidence pointing to me……I would do it. Easily.
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 31, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
It definitely sounds effed up.
Not sure I’d PLUG him (after all, it’s only baseball), but I could see myself hiring a professional, annoying person to forever harass him.
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jul 31, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think it'll hit SportCenter until and unless Hohn sees some discipline.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Freeman
our starting 1B opening day, 2010. jeeesh…let’s hope the kid’s ready.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jul 31, 2009 6:43 PM EDT reply actions
...or Martin Prado or Barbaro Canizares?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Laroche ADD
Lets hope Adam’s ADD has gotten better. He used to always make mental mistakes at 1B. I swear I saw him staring at butterflies once…
I think he's on a prescription at this point...
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Bad Move.
Look the year is over, I mean here we go again getting back our old players ??? Only good point of this deal is that LaRoche will hopefully be let go so we can go after a power hitting 1B in the off-season.
Bad move, but hey at-least he has 13 dingers to Casey Kotchman’s what six ???
Six freaking homers are you kidding me ??
Good bye Casey !
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Jul 31, 2009 10:20 PM EDT reply actions
"The year is over?"
How do you figure?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
What a freakin day
Atlanta makes a move that has many of us scratching our heads, the Braves get shut out tonight, all of our Wild Card competition seemingly got considerably better…and for the nightcap? ESPNClassic is showing our 2004 game against the Diamondbacks – in which Randy Johnson threw a perfect game against us.
Awesome.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 10:47 PM EDT reply actions
Great Trade
What the hell is Boston doing? Stocking up on 1B? They get Kotch & Victor today in Trades. 4 1B on their roster (Big Papi is a utility player though and Youk has been playing 3rd a lot lately).
I like this deal, Defense is overrated at first, and LaRoche can get the job done over there. Adam really wanted to return to Atlanta, and it’ll be good seeing him in a Braves uni again. The great thing is that we get 2nd half Adam, who should be launching balls into the Turner Field Pavilion for the next few months!
Why'd the Mets, of all teams, have to draft John Maine!?!?
it what world is Bid Papi a utility player?… he cant field any position let alone multiple
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
You know, DH and 1B…he is a multi-talented roid-user!
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 31, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
...allegedly.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 1, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I can see the reasoning...
LaRoche has more power, and power is the one thing our team has lacked. But I’m not sure he’s much, if any, upgrade over Kotchman because Kotchman will post a higher OBP and plays better defense. Plus, Kotchman’s under control for 2 years and LaRoche is a FA after 2 months. I guess that’s the organization putting their faith in Freeman, but ever since Scott Thorman, I’ve been afraid of rookie walk-ons.
But looking at it from a pure lineup standpoint, we traded a #7 hitter for a #4-5 hitter, so I guess it nakes sense in that regard.
How about Hanson?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Aug 1, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
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