Well, you can forget about Holliday...
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jul 24, 2009 1:43 PM EDT
54 comments
yeap...in case you're living in a cave, the Cardinals traded the following players:
Third Baseman Brett Wallace, Outfielder Shane Peterson and RHP Clayton Mortensen.
for Holliday.
I bring this up because it shows you something about the Cardinals' front Office. It's got Balls. While I think this trade will undoubtedly send them backwards in the next 2-3 years (Wallace is a stud), they are going to go for winning NOW. The A's get a pretty decent haul (much better than the one we got for Tex, FWIW...that always irked me--that we didn't get more out of the strongest bat at last year's trading deadline) but the Cardinals are thinking about winning now and are not afraid to do just that.
I guess this brings me back to the question at hand: is our Front Office too scared to make major moves that MAY help us win now, but for the cost of 2 years down the road (and I don't mean Heyward or Freeman...I mean Kimbrel, etc.)?
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Never wanted him in the first place.
If Dunn walks 30 fewer times, he'll drive in 15 more runs. This is thanks to the scientifically proven formula: RBI = (this is nonsense) (I made it all up).
Here's a stat: Wins as manager: Dusty Baker, 1,162; Bill James, 0.
Ditto.
Same thing with Hawpe. I better see some stats that says these players can hit away from Coors Field and Holliday has proven he can’t.
I don’t think he was implying that we should have gone after Holliday. His question is does our FO have the guts to make a trade of that caliber?
Tex?
Unless your just talking about Wren’s regime…
by Brendan Scolari on Jul 28, 2009 4:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Lookin at Wren. He has made some himself.
McLouth?
Getting rid of FYF?
by drumzalicious on Jul 28, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
Never even kinda wanted him.
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jul 24, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
And the folks on the Cards blog...
actually seem pretty pumped about it (if it gets them to the world series).
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jul 24, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
The way I see it, Its a championship or bust
This Braves team is not better than: LAD, LAL, NYY, BOS, TB, or PHI. I would heavily favor those six teams against us in a 5 or 7 game series. I say go with what we have (which is still a very respectable team) and lets our top prospects develop. As long as the world doesn’t end, like the Mayans predicted, we should have a very strong team between 2012-2018, when all of our prospects are in their prime.
SubParr
“This Braves team is not better than: LAD, LAL, NYY, BOS, TB, or PHI.”
Los Angeles Lakers?
by tomahawkin108 on Jul 24, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Well Actually . . .
The way we played against Boston and the Yankees during Interleague play i would say we could hold our own. One of those games against the Yankees we got screwed with Cabrera being in the line. Against the Red Sox everyone knows we got screwed with that one call from EOF.
Not to mention the Phllies who we have absolutely dominated this year.
I think we can do fine against all of those above mentioned teams. Our pitching has the ability to hold each and every one of those teams. At the very least it would be a lot of good pitching match ups.
by drumzalicious on Jul 24, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
McClouth is about as good a player as Holliday, he’s much cheaper, and signed long term. And we didn’t have to give up any top 25 prospects to get him. Thats a pretty good deal to me
Yes we did. Gorkys and Locke were top 10 prospects for us. So yeah we gave up 2 top 10 specs along with a major league 4th or 5th starter for McLouth. Still a fine deal for us though and i would rather have McLouth as well cause Holliday is gonna cash in in the offseason with Boras as his agent.
braves#1
Yes, I meant top 25 overall. Gorkys was barely a top 100 prospect, and Locke and Morton were not on the most recent top 100’s. Again, we certainly got a better deal than the Cards.
Umm, too scared to make moves? We traded for McClouth and Church already this year. And apparently we weren’t getting Holliday without giving up Freeman (or someone better). Beyond Freeman and Heyward we have no one in the system that could make a package as good as the one the Cards just made.
The Braves front office has a lot of balls. They also know what is a good deal and what isn’t- and frankly, the Cardinals got killed on this deal. Its not that the Braves messed up with the Tex trade, its that the Cardinals messed up horribly with this trade.
If the price was Wallace that means we would have to trade Freeman. No thanks. I don’t agree with the above comments about Holliday being only a slightly above average hitter, I’d much rather wait until the off-season and try to sign him as a FA
by McCann's the Man on Jul 24, 2009 1:58 PM EDT reply actions
I never wanted Holliday either
We’ve talked about this before, but about 5 of Frank Wren’s best moves have all been non moves. Not mortgaging any of our studs for an overrated Holliday is one of them.
And just this morning I was getting pissed thinking back on why we couldn’t get more for Teixeira last year.
by Sid Bream's Moustache on Jul 24, 2009 1:58 PM EDT reply actions
Hmm
Wonder if we could pry Ludwick away?
Of course Stl would be more likely to try and move Ankiel but still . . . would love that bat right between Chip and McCann . . .
Don’t see them moving Ludwick since they’re going all out this year. That team could be really ugly looking next year though if they lose both DeRosa and Holliday
by McCann's the Man on Jul 24, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
but they get the picks...
but that team will look ugly for the next 3-5 years with the talent they just traded away.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jul 24, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah but they better get a Wallace like talent with that pick, which will probably be the Yankee’s pick (outside chance it’s ours). Doubtful, cards fans better hope they get shelby miller signed and hope he’s all that scouts were saying he could be
by McCann's the Man on Jul 24, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
it will NOT be ours...
we’re not signing any FA from them next year.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jul 24, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
This
It’s kind of crazy, however if he performs well i fully expect them to make a run at him in Free Agency simply because they know the only way to keep Pujols around is to get him a bat to protect him.
by drumzalicious on Jul 24, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank God he stayed out of the NL East. Nyjer Morgan is already too much of an unpleasant surprise.
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 24, 2009 2:33 PM EDT reply actions
Thank god
Now I don’t have to see fanpost after fanpost after comment after comment after comment with ridiculous trade scenarios involving Holliday….
“lets trade (Jo-Jo Reyes, KJ, other useless player) for Holliday! Why wouldn’t the A’s take that deal??? And Frank Wren can just ask Liberty Media to up the payroll…”
THANK GOD.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 24, 2009 2:56 PM EDT reply actions
And good riddance...
I’m glad this deal happened, because the Cards need to stay and first place and beat down the Cubs and Brewers, but I have to say that Beane got the much better end of this deal. If the Cards were gonna move Wallace this month they needed to be getting Halladay, not Holliday.
Q: If on-base pct is so important then why don't they put it on the scoreboard? -Failcoeur
A: Because the Braves don't want to show their fans how bad you suck.
I think he was a great fit for the Cardinals. He immediately legitimizes their lineup with how Ludwick has struggled. It’ll be interesting to see if their pitching can keep throwing the way they are.
They might have given up too much, but I think they actually could be this one piece away from the world series, or at the very least a deep playoff run.
I agree that I never wanted the guy either, seems to have total bust written all over him an really I don’t seem him putting the Cardinals over the hump. Plus he is just a one yr rental ??? I mean at-least we got 1.25 seasons out of Tex. BIG GAMBLE BY THE CARDS !!!
Question is did they hit a Royal Flush or a lousy pair of 7’s.
Only time will tell !!
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Jul 24, 2009 8:35 PM EDT reply actions
He had a helluva debut tonight.
7/24/2009 - "The Phillies are too far ahead in the NL East for the Braves to make a run." - Buster Olney
REMEMBER THAT BOYS.
yea man.
hitting between Pujols and Ludwick will do that for a guy lol.
The A’s might get a nice haul of prospects this year. apparently the red sox are interested in orlando cabrera.
by drumzalicious on Jul 25, 2009 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Ooph. With the less than a year rentals of Holliday and DeRosa, if the Cardinals don’t win the WS, these trades were a bust. They already moved Chris Perez to the Indians and owe them another top-pitching prospect for DeRosa, and the 3 prospects (but mostly Brett Wallace) for Holliday. I could be wrong, but the Cardinals seem more like a mid-market team, and the type that doesn’t have too much extra payroll to take on some FAs to fill the gap left by the traded prospects in the next few years. Cardinal fans may be happy now…
To answer the question, does our front office have the balls to make moves to help us win now. Some moves that we have made this year.
1. Trading for Javy Vazquez.
2. Signing Derek Lowe and KK
3. Not signing Smoltz.
4. Trading for McClouth
5. Releasing Glavine
6. Trading Francouer
I don’t think anyone can question if Wren has the balls to make a move. Look what he has done with some ‘fan-favorites’ Didn’t sign Smoltz, showed Glavine the door, and traded Francouer. Wren is in a comprising situation. He doesn’t want to give up top talent and mortgage the future, but he wants to win now. So, he has to wait for the right deal. I’m sure that we could, for example, trade for V. Martinez. But the deal would start with Freeman, and Wren doesn’t want to go there. I am very confident that Wren will make the right move to help this team win now and later.
touche.
for what it’s worth…both soriano and gonzalez are type-A based on elias’ new rankings.
link at mlbtraderumors.com
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jul 25, 2009 9:46 AM EDT reply actions
good.
we will get some thing for Gonzo’s stress he causes during games. he hardly makes it look easy sometimes.
by drumzalicious on Jul 25, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
what’s up braves fans new atlanta braves blogger here, been a big braves fan since 1990 when I was able to watch them on TBS for the first time.
Anyways, to add on this subject, I truly do not believe the braves will make any big moves for a bat….our offense has been on fire as of late and I really would rather not disrupt our chemistry we have right now. If anything, we should add a bullpen guy for the stretch run to make our starters feel more comfortable in the later innings. The fact that with the way we have own the phillies this year when our bats were doing next to nothing tells us that we should be all but set to continue pushing towards the playoffs
Amen brother
I’ve been saying the same thing since the ASG. Unless it’s just a rediculous offer, the Braves should stick with what they have offensively. They’re too hot right now to mess it all up.
7/24/2009 - "The Phillies are too far ahead in the NL East for the Braves to make a run." - Buster Olney
REMEMBER THAT BOYS.
by mvhsbball on Jul 25, 2009 5:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
IF
The Philles get Halladay i would hope Wren does something.
by drumzalicious on Jul 25, 2009 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Why?
Never make a move just because another team in your division makes a move. If its a deal that works for Wren and the Braves then fine, but just goin out and trading for a guy just because the Phills perhaps get Halladay is not smart. Thats how you get into trouble and get raped in deals.
braves#1
Of course
I’m not saying go out and make a crazy offer and gut the system.
by drumzalicious on Jul 26, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
i will tell you something...
we’re going to be VERY busy this off season.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jul 26, 2009 5:59 AM EDT reply actions
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