It's about time

by KennyF'inPowers on Jul 2, 2009 11:55 AM EDT Comment 96 comments

As you guys know, it takes 24 hours for you to be able to post after you have signed up for sports blogs nation so this post is a little belated.........How many times did Prado have to show Cox he was ready to play. Wren and Cox missed a golden opportunity to unload Kelly Johnson to the Cardinals during the off season. If that move had happened who knows where we would be in the standings now with Prado at second all year. If the braves would have been able to get someone like Ludwick for Johnson we would have killed two birds with one stone. Wish in one hand...........

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Hindsight is 20-20. And as much as I love Prado too, thats a bit of an overreaction after 2 games at 2nd…we have no clue how well he’d be playing after having played a full season.

by Zeus12888 on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I was going to say the exact same thing

but, obviously, you beat me to it.

"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 2, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kenny, AKA Rosterbate Post is Still Available for Post Such as This

Just in case you did not know/ no sarcasm intended.

by HEYJUDE on Jul 4, 2009 2:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would like to add

that if Chipper didn’t go through a 10-60 slump or Heap didn’t hit a brick wall over the past week, there is no telling where we could be in the standings.

If Moylan didn’t suck this year, or other RPs didn’t suck, if JoJo didn’t suck, etc…we could play this game all day.

Prado is not the reason for our success in the past two games. Sure, I’ll give you the first game in which he played well above his head (a career high of 4 RBI…seriously?), but yesterday had nothing to do with Prado and everything to do with Chipper, McCann and company actually finally hitting again.

Also, JJ throwing a 1 hitter helped.

Man this site is full of knee-jerk posts.

"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 2, 2009 12:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Negative

I have no problem contributing the past two wins to our pitching staff and Martin Prado. No other hitter on the team has stepped up this season and hit like Martin has the past two games.

Hitters feed off of each other’s success, and with Martin getting those 1st runs accross home plate, he fed the whole team. I bet we wouldn’t have scored two runs without the energy Prado put throughout the clubhouse.

A man walks into a meat shoppe and goes to the counter. The cashier asks, "Thinking about buying some meat?". The man replied, "No, I'm going to buy meat, I was thinking about punanny."

by bwellnjonesco on Jul 2, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What about when Chipper singlehandedly scored 5 runs? While I’m glad that Prado will have a chance to prove himself, I think we all need to step back from the savior talk

by acie4mvp on Jul 2, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Really?

His “energy” was worth 10 runs? Wow.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 2, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Cole got out of that inning without the double and run from Prado (Credit Chipper), no telling afterwards how his stuff would have looked…

I’m just saying that Prado has been the MVP the past two games. The first game was obvious with the the game tieing AND game winning hits. In the second game, he went 2-4, but definitely got to Cole Hamels first and hit a big 2-run double (then the rest of the team jumped all over Hamels). Maybe I shouldn’t call that “energy”?

A man walks into a meat shoppe and goes to the counter. The cashier asks, "Thinking about buying some meat?". The man replied, "No, I'm going to buy meat, I was thinking about punanny."

by bwellnjonesco on Jul 3, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Using that logic, Blanco was the MVP…if he doesnt get on base, then Prado’s double means nothing.

Seriously, Prado has been surprisingly good for the past couple of games. Let’s not get carried away and say he is the MVP.

"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 3, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

....

I said the MVP of the last two games…

Is it just me or have the Braves left quite a few guys on base this season? Blanco getting on base isn’t that big of deal, but some one actually getting him home is kinda cool…

Good teams need timely hitting and I don’t think the Braves remembered about that, but Prado has sure put a nail in the lineup’s ass and provided the hitting necessary to open up big innings to win ball games…Nothing you say will make me think otherwise…

A man walks into a meat shoppe and goes to the counter. The cashier asks, "Thinking about buying some meat?". The man replied, "No, I'm going to buy meat, I was thinking about punanny."

by bwellnjonesco on Jul 4, 2009 4:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's not cat rocket science...

A man walks into a meat shoppe and goes to the counter. The cashier asks, "Thinking about buying some meat?". The man replied, "No, I'm going to buy meat, I was thinking about punanny."

by bwellnjonesco on Jul 4, 2009 5:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not exactly

The rumored Ludwick for Kelly trade discussed this offseason probably wouldn’t do much for either team. Ludwick’s OPS is .740, Kelly’s is .647.

"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."

by jeg on Jul 2, 2009 12:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Didn't both teams deny the rumor?

"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 2, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah it was denied by both, which likely means it was discussed. /sarcasm/ . Either way, we need to allow Kelly to re-establish value. He was too good an offensive 2B to let him rot away on the bench.

"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."

by jeg on Jul 2, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sooo…. how exactly do we allow Kelly to “re-establish” himself and keep him off the bench? Are you sayin to just let him work through it where he is clearly hurtin the team? You go with the hot hand here, Prado is that. Who knows Prado could stink it up and then KJ comes in and does great, i have no idea whats gonna happen but i do have confidence in Prado and i do know that Prado is the hotter hitter right now. Gotta go with the hottest hand.

braves#1

by rockybull on Jul 2, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Some AB’s in RF, LF, and let Prado slide over to 3B/ 1B when Chipper and Kotchman need a day off. So a 27 year old 2B posts an .800 OPS two years running, then he struggles, so you deny him the AB’s necessary to get back to his established level of play? If you keep him on the bench, he has zero trade value and essentially has no value to your team. I say play you have to get Kelly in the lineup at least 4 games a week to get him consistent AB’s.

You honestly believe this team is a championship contender this year? I don’t see it. No speed, little power, and a lack of impact players in general. Prado probably has a little more short term value in terms of runs but Kelly has established himself over the past two years. Its a complete waste of his value to leave him on the bench to allow Prado to be overexposed. I guess it boils down to my preference that the organization build towards a championship in the coming years and not just a playoff birth with little chance of advancing this year.

"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."

by jeg on Jul 2, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow.. the end of the first paragraph is butchered. “Play” should be omitted.

"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."

by jeg on Jul 2, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree. Not with the part that we are destined to be a playoff team, but if we make the playoffs, we have a good shot. Top to bottom, we have the best pitching, that should never be underestimated. I would say our top three, and possibly 4 or 5 could go out there and give 9 solid innings in a playoff setting. If the Braves get to the playoffs, Gonzo and Soriano would be the only guys probably needed to pitch in a win for the braves out of the pen. Everyone healthy in the lineup, I like our chances if playoff time comes around. I think this team is better off in the playoffs than in the regular season.

by wcubmac on Jul 2, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We have in our rotation:
J. Jurrjens is on pace to surpass his career high innings total by 30 innings this year and he faded badly down the stretch last year.
J. Vazquez has a 10.34 postseason ERA and has been blasted by two separate managers for pitching poorly in big games.
K. Kawakami has already had fatigue issues stemming from the 5 man rotation and its anyone’s guess as to how long he will last.
T. Hanson is a rookie and his innings total should be well past his career high by that point.

That being said, D. Lowe should be dependable and perhaps Hudson will be effective. But our rotation isn’t as post-season ready as we have assumed.

Basically what I’m saying is that our offense is going to have to pick it up big time if we are going to win, because our pitching is likely to regress somewhat as the season progresses. And that would require a different RF’er and some significant jump in production from an unknown source.

"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."

by jeg on Jul 2, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 2, 2009 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You know i get your point but man by now teams know how he is. He could do exactly what you say and GM’s will NOT give up alot for this guy in the offseason low BABIP or not. Teams just aren’t stupid like that, well at least most aren’t. GM’s knows he is a streaky hitter and will more than likely have 3 good months along with 3 bad months, thats just the way it is. So really what would we get for him? Not a whole lot thats for sure.

“You honestly believe this team is a championship contender this year? I don’t see it.”

I dont know. With our pitching staff though i believe we get into the playoffs we have a chance. Vazquez, Lowe, Jurrjens and then Hanson or Hudson or Kawakami or whoever i mean you gotta admit thats nice. How do you know that Prado wont be better than KJ in the long term? Your talkin about overexposure but come on man he has a years worth of at bats man so if they haven’t figured him out yet then what makes you think all of a sudden they are gonna figure Prado out now just because he is gettin more at bats? Thats not a guarantee, you could be right but you could be wrong also. KJ is what he is, i dont see any improving in him, if anything Prado is the one that has the chance to improve in the long term. What you see from KJ is what you are gettin.

braves#1

by rockybull on Jul 2, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

When Prado got regular AB’s last season, his offensive production slipped back in line with the career numbers he posted throughout the minor leagues.

August of 08’, 1.103 OPS in 77 PA’s with a .484 BABIP
September 08’, .654 OPS in 93 PA’s with a .310 BABIP

Again in 09’, as good as Prado was in June, he was just as awful in May. The guy is just hot but we have 1920 minor league AB’s that say that Prado is a mid .700 OPS guy with no season above .794.

Kelly Johnson posted an .800 + OPS across 1200 + PA’s in the big leagues as a 2B. Kelly was “streaky” last season but then again in 07’, he only posted one month that was an outlier value. He’s been terrible this year but he’s been too good in years past to not exhaust every opportunity to rehabilitate his value.

"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."

by jeg on Jul 2, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

don’t waste your breath. The virus has spread and no amount of logic or stats will change that. History be damned, Prado has been hot for 2 games – give him the MVP award.

"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 2, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I remember now why I have been laying relatively low on TC for the past month plus

"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."

by jeg on Jul 2, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

dude

freakin awesome signature. That was the best movie I have seen in years. I laughed out loud for literally the ENTIRE movie!

“and we’re the three best friends that anyone could have. We’re the three best friends that anyone could have…”

LOL!

"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 2, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here's an anology for you guys

Sometimes you just have to go with the hot streak. I play poker a lot. Sometimes, as a poker player, you get on a run of good luck. You notice this, and play accordingly. Maybe, you chase a flush a little more often, or you see one more card, and hit just keeps paying off. But, at some point, the luck streak is going to end. When that happens, you go back to playing how you were.

As been stated several times, Prado is hot right now. There is no denying that. SInce he’s hot, we play him. He’ll have to come back to Earth eventually. We all should expect that. But, if he doesn’t and he continues this hot streak for a while, then more power to him.

We do need to find a way for KJ to get some at bats. I his obviously visibly frustrated, as shown last night. I think, we give him til the AS break, trying to get him some AB’s wherever we can. See what he does. Then, if no improvements, maybe send him to AAA for a bit for a confidence boost. Do we think that can work? I know he has to come out of this funk eventually, but should we jeopardize the possibility of making the playoffs by playing him at second, when we have someone that can replace him, and is hitting the ball better.

by dlkinser86 on Jul 2, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I get what you are saying

and I agree with most of it. But, the part I disagree with is sending KJ down to AAA. Since when does sending a 4 year starting veteran player down build confidence? With someone like Schafer this works because they are not established or experienced, but with someone like KJ it would only demoralize them. I think it would have the opposite effect of confidence building.

"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 2, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He can still be of value off the bench. I would bet he could play a little first base and right field if need to be to give guys a day off. I would rather not see him in the outfield, but im sure he could. He could be a valuable pinch hitter, pinch runner and so on. Time off may give him time to clear his head, and he would probably get enough at bats to where they can see when he is ready to play everyday. I think the ceiling is higher for a player like Kelly, but Prado seems just to be a very good, fundamentally sound player, that may not get much better than he is.

by wcubmac on Jul 2, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why would you think he has any position flexibility?

He hasn’t played anything but 2B in four years. And why would he suddenly be a valuable pinch-hitter if you don’t think he can hit well enough to start?

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 2, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He did play left field when he first came up, which was 3 years ago I think, and he was originally a shortstop. So he can play middle infield and the corner outfield spots. I think Prado would play first and Kelly would play second, though.

by acie4mvp on Jul 3, 2009 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The problem with riding the hot hand is knowing when to stop riding it. When does an 0/10 turn into a 3/25 and a return to a cold Kelly Johnson getting at-bats?

I’m not going to deny Prado has had a pretty fantastic last month-ish; since May 30 he has a .365/.420/.514 line. That’s mainly a BABIP spike and career norms in BB% and ISO. Before May 30, he had a .239/.311/.448 line. Pretty mediocre besides some added power. Which Prado are we going to get for the next months?

by 17843 on Jul 2, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wait...

So what happens if we bust out trying to “ride out our hot hand?”

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 2, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jeg

I mean you make a good point i cant deny that but lets see how he does now as a guy that is GUARANTEED a spot as a starter. This is the first time ever he is said to be the forseeable future starting 2B for us. That is a HUGE confidence builder believe me. At least give the guy a chance damn.

As far as KJ value is concerned even if he does what he did last year i just dont see any team willin to really give up much for him. I mean look at Chipper, how much could we really get for him? He is one of the best hitters in the game and an above average defender at 3B but his health is a concern so you know he will miss time so we wouldn’t get too much for him. Yeah you could say one is this old and the other is this old of course they wont get the same, but man thing is if a team is tryin to win now and can get the better player they will get Chipper unless they absolutely need a 2B. But what im tryin to say is GM’s know about KJ he just doesn’t have much trade value, and even if he gets to similar numbers in the offseason they still know the kind of hitter he is, low BABIP or not. What can you really expect to get for the guy?

braves#1

by rockybull on Jul 2, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You’re drastically underestimating his value. The very fact a trade for Ludwick was being discussed if proof that Kelly was valued as one of the top ten second baseman in baseball. If this season’s small sample improvement on defense is really and when he regresses to his true talent level offensively, he’ll be a very valuable asset. Despite being in the “Pro-Kelly” camp, I’d welcome a trade if Prado shows he’s an everyday player as Kelly has both more trade value and will be more expensive going forward.

by 17843 on Jul 2, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There was no proof that a trade of Ludwick for Prado was being discussed. There is absolutely NO proof of that. Could there have been? absolutely. Was there for a fact? absolutely not. We just have no idea about that. I mean was Frenchy for Grienke being discussed? I would surely hope it would not have been for the Royals sake.

braves#1

by rockybull on Jul 2, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There were Ludwick-Johnson rumors though. The old smoke and fire deal.

I never read anything about Francouer/Greinke being talked about outside moronic posts on this blog though.

by 17843 on Jul 2, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not too sure how serious those rumors about Ludwick and Johnson were though. I mean all we know it could have been Wren talkin to the Cards Gm and sayin how about Ludwick for KJ and then Cards GM hangin up on him i mean seriously there was no evidence that that was even discussed at all.

braves#1

by rockybull on Jul 3, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Really? You're going with speculation on Chipper's trade value to discredit Johnsno?

When a Chipper trade has never been discussed?

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 2, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well let me ask you this michael. What exactly would YOU give up for KJ? If you were GM of a team you would give up a good bit for him? I sure wouldn’t.

braves#1

by rockybull on Jul 3, 2009 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That’s obvious from your prior posts.

I’d value him as a 2.5 win player going forward. Making what he’ll make in arbitration, I’d trade him for a similar player – #3/4 starter in arbitration, a corner outfielder with a nice bat, but poor defense, etc.

by 17843 on Jul 3, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

fair enough but do you have names in mind? You have the teams in mind that need a 2B that has that? And who knows if they would even trade that for KJ even if they had that. Why not give up more and get Dan Uggla or somebody like that?

braves#1

by rockybull on Jul 3, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Rockies are the pretty obvious one without a real second baseman.

by 17843 on Jul 3, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Never heard of Eric Young Jr. i see

yeah he is there future there, will be ready prolly sometime in July or at least opening day. HE is there future at 2B.

braves#1

by rockybull on Jul 3, 2009 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You say that with such certainty about a guy who hasn’t gotten a chance at all this year despite 2B being in flux all season. I’ve also heard scouts down on Young’s ability to play second, seeing him as an outfielder.

by 17843 on Jul 3, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i have heard that too about his d. I still think the Rockies view him as a 2B at the majors. He isn’t awful there, not sure if he is above average, prolly average there. Im pretty sure they will at least give him a chance at second before they say nope we are gonna put you right in the OF.

Who cares if they haven’t given him a chance at the majors yet? They are taken there sweet time with this guy. I applaud it. They have some damn sense. I dont believe the Braves should have skipped Schafer a full level and brought him to the majors, you see how that turned out. This is Youngs first season in AAA, its half a season right now. They aren’t rushin him, which is damn intelligent by that organization. I have liked Young Jr., since he was in High A, he is a special player, he is gonna be a good one.

+1000 to the Rockies organization for taken there time with a young player that they have HUGE plans for in the future.

braves#1

by rockybull on Jul 4, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t get it…are you saying we couldn’t get much for Chipper?

by acie4mvp on Jul 3, 2009 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i mean we would get somethin but not nothin great. His health man, and his age so yeah we wouldn’t get much if we were to trade Chipper. I could be wrong though so whatever its not a big deal either way cause we aint tradin chipper lol.

braves#1

by rockybull on Jul 3, 2009 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You don’t think we could get anything for the MLB’s best hitter over the past 3 years?

"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 3, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I expect better from you Justin. Now if you were some newbie and didn’t know how to read or somethin then i would be like ok, but dude your a vet here, and i like to read the stuff you type, but man your gonna have to flat out read better man. This is what you said:

“You don’t think we could get anything for the MLB’s best hitter over the past 3 years?”

And this is what i said:

“i mean we would get somethin but not nothin great.”

So man where exactly did i say we couldn’t get “anything” for him? I said nothin great. When i say that i mean like a mega spec or a really good spec. I mean i think we could get some solid specs but no team is gonna trade there crown jewel or somethin like that for an often injured 36 year old 3B no matter how great he is. Thats just the facts of baseball man.

braves#1

by rockybull on Jul 3, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My bad...

I didn’t mean “anything” in its literal sense…kinda like in the open thread last night when I said people were hating on Chipper…

I will have to agree to disagree with you on this one though. Chipper’s contract is very affordable and any AL team would love to have him in their lineup as a DH.

But this is all senseless anyway, because we all know he will not be traded.

"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 3, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yep it is senseless cause we aint tradin him hahah nor should we.

braves#1

by rockybull on Jul 3, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with getting Prado regular AB’s while he is hot but then again, I don’t want to see it be at Kelly’s expense (exclusively).

Let us not forget just how good his numbers were relative to other second baggers around the league. The question with him has been his D and it has been much better this year. The sample size is small but still.

I just don’t see where your coming from talking about the kind of hitter Kelly has been. His only real offensive problem the past two years has been K’s and his were by no means out of control.

"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."

by jeg on Jul 3, 2009 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You might wanna go back and look at his stats from last year. I dont know the exact numbers but 3 months of last year he hit putrid, then the other 3 months he his great. Inconsistency bro inconsistency. I tell you what if a team would give up a GOOD OF for him in the offseason then i will say im wrong about a team not givin up nothin much for him. But im pretty confident no team in there right mind would give up much for KJ.

braves#1

by rockybull on Jul 3, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here’s the thing, if we don’t get him AB’s to get him hitting, we won’t get a damn thing for him. In 08, he had two bad months, two good months, and two ok months in which his OPS was .060 below is year average. In 07, he had 1 bad, 3 good, and two ok months. I would suggest you look at other players, many have plenty of monthly OPS variance.

"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."

by jeg on Jul 3, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh believe me i checked out his numbers and others and if Prado falls on his face and just cant handle it then you know give KJ the job back but i think Prado is gonna relish as a starting 2B for us and leave KJ in the dust, just my opinion though. Well no way i start KJ over Diaz or Anderson they are both better than him. I mean only guy i guess KJ might could replace is Frenchy, but even Frenchy is actually doin better lately. I dont want my team to play a guy and take valuable at bats from players playin better RIGHT NOW fighting for the playoffs just to give him at bats and try to trade him in the offseason.

braves#1

by rockybull on Jul 3, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Alright, I’m done with this argument. I’ll take my years of evidence that suggests Kelly is the better player and you take your 200 AB’s for Prado and call it a day.

"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."

by jeg on Jul 4, 2009 3:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Our pitching is going great...

But outside of Lowe, you’re looking at basically zero postseason success.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 2, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And that so called Beckett and Marlins pitching in 2003 had basically zero postseason success as well and you see how that turned out. When you have the pitching you have a chance.

braves#1

by rockybull on Jul 3, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We also “had pitching” for how many consecutive trips to the post season and only won one title?!?!

Beckett is a freak and had he been healthy all year and thrown more innings, he probably wouldn’t have been able to shoulder the same load. Between, Willis, Beckett, and Penny, the Marlins leading trio had better stuff across the board than this Braves staff and good “stuff” becomes more important when the strike zone tightens in the postseason.

"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."

by jeg on Jul 3, 2009 2:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well durin that playoffs Willis was actually in the pen for them.

“We also "had pitching" for how many consecutive trips to the post season and only won one title?!?!”

Ridiculous statement. Thats past man, with the way you said that why even have pitching? Why not build a great hitting team then huh? Hitting first then pitching secondary. If you wanna go with that then fine. When you have good pitching then all it takes is for your team to get hot at the right time(Cardinals in 2006) and you have a chance to win it all. I mean when Vaz, Lowe, and Jurrjens are on they are very hard to hit. They can easily go 7 or 8 innings and keep our team in it.

braves#1

by rockybull on Jul 3, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My point of saying we “had pitching” was not to be ridiculous but to point out that this team doesn’t have the power arms that most champions have.

"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."

by jeg on Jul 3, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ok good point about that but i mean i dont know if this team will ever have that kind of pitching though. I mean we have Hanson for the future, but i dont know if Vaz fits into our long term plans. Jurrjens isn’t a power guy, nor is Medlen or Lowe or Kawakami so i mean i dont ever see us with power arms. I mean we had Smoltz all those years and now we have Hanson, so i mean still with your statement how are we ever gonna win a championship then?

braves#1

by rockybull on Jul 3, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hanson is a good start. Another power arm to go with Hanson and Jurrjens and we have a legit front 3 to contend for years.

"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."

by jeg on Jul 4, 2009 3:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

When's the last time Kelly played the OF?

Would he be putting his arm at risk?

Also, I agree that he does us no good as a bench player when he’s only played one position in the last four years and hasn’t hit this year.

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 2, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

His arm still seems pretty strong, based on his throws turning some tight double plays

by acie4mvp on Jul 3, 2009 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kelly should be playing regularly somewhere

I question the logic behind sticking him on the bench for an extended period and thinking he’ll just start hitting well enough that you want to bring him in to pinch hit in pressure situations.

If you think he’s going to hit, then play him til his starts hitting b/c his upside is greater than that of Prado’s.

"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."

by jeg on Jul 3, 2009 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

KJ should be playing regularly somewhere EVEN though he is a black hole in the lineup and he is hittin worst than Kotchman, Prado, Escobar, Chipper, McCann, Anderson, Diaz, Blanco, and even Frenchy BUT he should still be hittin in the lineup somewhere regularly. SUREEEEEE lets go ahead and do that. That makes soooo much sense. Im fine with playin him if you wanna give somebody a day off or if somebody is hurt but he is the coldest guy of all the guys i named, he should be on the bench.

braves#1

by rockybull on Jul 3, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This ridiculous notion that he’s suddenly a terrible offensive player needs to stop being bandied about. It has been proven that all of his offensive struggles so far this season are predicated on a low batting average – his plate discipline has improved, his power has stayed the same, etc. That low batting average is to a large degree the result of bad luck on balls in play, though some of it is a change in his batted ball profile.

In short, Kelly Johnson as an offensive player is not much different than the version who played last season. The idea he’ll be an offensive black hole for the next three months has almost no backing in fact and is almost entirely created by uninformed opinion.

If Kelly Johnson isn’t going to play every day in the major leagues, he should play every day in the minor leagues. Nothing else will help fix his swing and restore his confidence.

Even if we accept the inconsistency argument, Kelly is primed for three out-of-his-mind months, is he not?

I’ll also note in no universe is Jeff Francoeur performing better than Kelly. He’s walking less, with a worse BB/K ratio, and he’s hitting for less power. You are correct that due to a non-unlucky BABIP he’s posting a better batting average, but his line is still inferior to Kelly’s.

by 17843 on Jul 3, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

and the KO punch

"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."

by jeg on Jul 3, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

KO punch???

lol if you think and say so hahaha.

braves#1

by rockybull on Jul 3, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No offense. Just giving him props for the well-wordedness of his argument.

"Four of us wolves, running around the desert together in Las Vegas, looking for strippers and cocaine..."

by jeg on Jul 4, 2009 2:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don’t bring logic and reason to a irrational debate.

"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 3, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Keep thinkin what you wanna think i really can care less. Im not gonna change my opinion on KJ. If you wanna believe in him then fine. You can bring up the unlucky part, the BABIP part until your red in the face doesn’t matter. I never said KJ is an awful player i just cannot stand his inconsistency. And i never said that Frenchy SEASON totals are better than KJ, i said that Frenchy is playin better RIGHT NOW than KJ and he is.

“Even if we accept the inconsistency argument”

Even if we, thats gotta be we DO accept the inconsistency argument lol. I mean if you dont accept it then its no use even mentioning another thing to you about this cause its not worth it.

braves#1

by rockybull on Jul 3, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He didn't just bring up BABIP

he talked about almost every offensive stat category (walk rate, K rate, etc) and the only one KJ is doing poorly in is his batting average – and that is a direct result of his BABIP. The two go hand in hand.

No matter if you are going to change your mind or not, you have to realize that KJ is a good ball player (top 5 2B in baseball the past two years or something like that) and not a horrible player.

"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 3, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

damn...

I swear this is ridiculous. I never said for a full season he is horrible EVER!!!!!!!!! I said for 3 months he is bad and 3 months he is good. And in OTHER threads i said his numbers would prolly be there at the end of the year but the inconsistency part is frustrating and hurts a team for 3 months. And yes i read about the other stats he pointed out i didn’t ignore it. And no he was NOT top 5 2B the past two seasons. Before the start of this year i would rather have Utley, Cano, Philips, Uggla, Pedroia, Roberts, Polanco, and Kinsler. And if Orlando Hudson didn’t get hurt at the end of last season and had to have surgery then i would put him ahead of KJ. Now if you wanted to say top 10 2B then ok but not top 5. But really there are some CRAPPY 2B in this game so top 10 isn’t sayin a heck of alot. I just so happen to view Prado as a better player but thats just my opinion. We all have opinions, i respect yours and hopefully you respect mine. The inconsistency just bothers the crap out of me thats the whole problem here.

braves#1

by rockybull on Jul 3, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

In that case, Kelly should be about ready to bust out, no?

by 17843 on Jul 3, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

could be right, but right now Prado is hot, we cant stay with the Cold KJ and besides he is on the DL anyway. But yeah prolly is ready to get hot again when he gets back hahah but the hot one is Prado now so thats the hand we will play until he gets ice cold. Im not gonna say Prado is not gonna have his ups and downs, im sure he will some, especially considering this is the first time ever in his MLB career he is promised a position to play everyday. Everyone struggles and Prado at one point will as well but i think he will get it together and do what he is capable of doin without goin on prolonged slumps.

braves#1

by rockybull on Jul 3, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wasn't saying that he was one of my top 5 2B

His stats and VORP (or whatever that stat is that ranks players) had him there. And I said “top 5 or something like that”.

Of those players you did list, I would take Kinsler, Utley, Pedroia and Roberts over KJ (before the season started).

And there may be some crappy 2B in this league, but there are also crappy 1B, 3B, SS, LF, RF, CF, and C. Does being a top 10 player at any of those positions not matter?

"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 4, 2009 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

wow lol you would take KJ over Cano? Just because Cano had a down year? wow. You would take KJ over Uggla? wow. Same with Phillips, and Polanco, but hey its your opinion and i respect that, im just kinda shocked. I dont think you realize how good those other 2B are man.

Of course there are crappy players at other positions. All im sayin is its not a huge deal that you are top 10 2B, sure you can say that about alot of positions. Catcher is prolly the number 1 position with the most crappiest players that start at least as far as hitters go. My view is there are far more better 1B, 3B, SS, LF, RF, and CF than there are 2B. But hey its just my opinion of it, not sayin your wrong or right.

braves#1

by rockybull on Jul 4, 2009 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Using the past two season’s WAR numbers, each position had the following number of 2.0 WAR or better players (essentially average or better players):

C 10 15
1 15 16
2 22 21
S 19 18
3 20 21
R 23 21
C 22 22
L 18 25

For those scoring at home, that’s R-44, C-44, 2-43, L-43, 3-41, S-37, 1-31, C-25

by 17843 on Jul 4, 2009 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

The same Cano who almost lost his job because he was horrible (up until this year) and yes, before this season I would have taken KJ over Phillips. Uggla is a bit over-rated, IMO (no stats here for this one, just “my own eyes”) and really? Polanco?

"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 4, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah that same Cano. He has been a great 2B every single season other than last year and is doin great again, your allowed to have a not so good year from time to time. Phillips is way better than KJ as well. You severely undervalue Polanco. This guy can flat out play. I would have traded KJ for him straight up in a heartbeat. He is strugglin some now but he is still a good player and his past numbers are very good, he doesn’t walk alot, doesn’t strike out alot either, he puts it in play, and has had good OBP, AVG, and hits in some years. And he plays good d. He knows how to play, he is prolly the most underrated 2B in the last 5 years. He has never hit alot of homers but playin in Comerica park will definately hurt those chances of hittin alot of homers more also.

“Uggla is a bit over-rated, IMO (no stats here for this one, just "my own eyes")”

Wait i thought you was kind of a stat guy and wanted to see stats and stuff and even said stuff about how Prado isn’t gonna be as good cause of past stats and stuff when startin huh? Maybe im wrong though.

“Don’t bring logic and reason to a irrational debate.”

hmmm… mighty interesting, is it that same logic how i say about “my own eyes” instead of the stats? Yeah i think it is…

But either way i respect your opinion on this, we just have different views on this, doesn’t make either of us wrong.

braves#1

by rockybull on Jul 4, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah I dont know if I want Ludwicks .234 batting average either.

Baseball is my life

by That a boy on Jul 2, 2009 12:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If we’d made the trade everyone would be bitching about Ludwick being a one year wonder and demanding that we get KJ back.

by Lennox on Jul 2, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know this has nothing to do with this post but Buster Onley was asked who should get the last two pitchers spots in the all star game and that dumby said Jamie Moyer and Tim Wakefield wtf!!! Just thought I would let you guys now.

Baseball is my life

by That a boy on Jul 2, 2009 12:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

They’re there in case the game goes into extra innings. Rubber-armed guys that can get up innings and really aren’t all that important to their team’s success.

by bravesfan91 on Jul 2, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am just glad bobby is finnaly letting martin start. Maybe our offense will pick it up now

by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jul 2, 2009 12:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

follow up: about time

I have read most of the reactions to my post, some want to give Kelly the benefit of the doubt. I am firmly opposed to this. That being said we didn’t give Mark DeRosa the benefit of the doubt either. (I personally DeRosa is a flash in th pan). For the sake of argument lets compare stats.
KJ – G (66) Avg. (.216) OBP (.288) SLG (.362) HR (5) RBI (20) SB (4) R (33) 2B (15
MP – G (51) Avg (.299) OBP (.360) SLG (.474)HR (4) RBI (13) SB (0) R (16) 2B (12)
Most of the games that Martin has played in have come off of the bench – in light of that, Martin stats blow KJ’s out of the water. Kelly Johnson :You’re F’In out, Martin You’re F’in In.

by KennyF'inPowers on Jul 2, 2009 4:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs