The Escobar to Oakland for Holliday and Cabrera rumor
by gondeee on Jul 14, 2009 6:49 PM EDT
in Trade News
59 comments
Fluttering around the Braves blogosphere today is this mention by an Oakland A's beat writer:
Remember that potential trade with the Braves -- Holliday and Cabrera for Escobar and prospects -- I mentioned a while back? I keep hearing it, but out here I'm also hearing the Braves would need the A's to take on a big part of the money owed Holliday over the next few months.
On the money front Matt Holliday would probably have about $6 million remaining on his 2009 salary at the trade deadline, and Orlando Cabrera would have about $1.5 with another $0.25 bonus if he is traded, so the money is not that much, but enough that the Braves would definitely need the A's to pick up a lot of it.
Cabrera has an interesting clause in his contract that states that if he turns out to be a type-A free agent, then his team cannot offer him arbitration. So everyone who is saying that we would get two potential type-A free agents and therefore the draft picks in return is incorrect. Furthermore, the money that we would need to put on the line to offer arbitration to (1) Holliday, (2) Cabrera, (3) Rafael Soriano, and (4) Mike Gonzalez (all potential free agents) would cripple our ability to do anything for at least the first part of the off-season, if not the whole off-season.
The Braves would likely find themselves in the same situation that the Diamondbacks found themselves in last year with Adam Dunn -- trading for him with the intention of recouping the prospects via the draft after he left via free agency, only to reasess the baseball landscape and realize that he would accept arbitration for the big payday, which they could not afford; therefore he turned into a pure three month rental for prospects.
This is the same situation we would likely find ourselves in with Holliday and Cabrera -- pure three-month rentals -- at the end of which, we would need a starting shortstop, so what would we do? We'd probably re-sign Cabrera = fail.
The whole premise behind this trade is stupid. Garret Anderson (.701 OPS) exceeds the production of Orlando Cabrera (.643 OPS), and Yunel Escobar (.789 OPS) equals the production of Matt Holliday (.792 OPS), and Holliday would be supplanting Anderson in left. Cabrera (.643 OPS) is Jeff Francoeur (.634 OPS) at shortstop and Holliday is not the same guy he was when he could play half of his games at Coors Field.
This trade is a pure pipe dream from some people in Oakland. For all the good work that Frank Wren has done as GM, and all the good trades he has made, this potential trade would be a big fat zero.
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"Here comes Bream! Here's the throw to the plate! He is...safe! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win! Braves win!...Braves win!"
by jug on Jul 14, 2009 6:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
+10 for Frye-glare
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jul 14, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
He gets ragged for being flashy, but I see that calming a bit as he gets older and more established. Not that I can think of an example in baseball where that has actually happened… Ain’t like Barry and Junior quit watching their homers at 30, but as far as unnecessary showmanship with the glove and general mouthiness with the umpires, I think we’ll see a fair amount of that disappear.
Also, I don’t want a 3-month Matt Holliday rental. I don’t know why anyone in Atlanta would unless we’ve got 10 series at Coors Field down the stretch.
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jul 14, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's the Oakland beatwriter
There is no way Wren would make a deal like that. The thing that sickened me was his adding that the Braves would send prospects to Oakland.
Again, Yunel Escobar is one of the most underrated and underappreciated players in baseball. As most shortstops who don’t have a ton of pop are. It’s really quite sad.
And then to DOB’s St. Louis has interest in Yunel rumor, no thanks on Ludwick, Ankiel or any other older corner outfielder for Yunel.
Daryl Jones(LF)
Brett Wallace(3B – but not really because he is going to be a firstbaseman in the majors, that body doesn’t play third)
Lance Lynn(RHP)
Those are the only prospects that interest me and they don’t fill current or system needs that the Braves have.
by NEBravesFan33 on Jul 14, 2009 7:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Jeez dude, I’d take Wallace to play first.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Jul 14, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about Freeman?
Im not familiar with this Wallace fellow. Is he better than Freeman?
by drumzalicious on Jul 15, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, he’s probably not, but he’d be in the bigs this year. I really didn’t think about anything on this one, I just thought not taking Wallace cause he won’t stick at third seemed a little silly. I don’t know, probably wouldn’t be the best move with Freeman on the way, but you could probably get better production out of Wallace than Kotchman until the end of next season when you know Freeman would be good and ready.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Jul 16, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, he’s probably not, but he’d be in the bigs this year. I really didn’t think about anything on this one, I just thought not taking Wallace cause he won’t stick at third seemed a little silly. I don’t know, probably wouldn’t be the best move with Freeman on the way, but you could probably get better production out of Wallace than Kotchman until the end of next season when you know Freeman would be good and ready.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Jul 16, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are beat writers not required to have a brain anymore?
Yeah, let’s trade one of the top 6 or 8 SS in the game, who is dirt cheap the next 3 years, for 2 months of Mr. I Suck Outside of Colorado Matt Holliday and Cabrera, who is a very decent SS.
I want Albert Pujols, but if I was a “beat writer”, I wouldn’t post nonsence trade proposals. Come on now.
2009 Atlanta Braves Motto: We ♥ leaving RISP AND Omar Minaya!
by mvhsbball on Jul 14, 2009 7:44 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
One of the reasons why the McLouth trade is a piece of genius
It’s the fact that we control him for years to come. Why would Wren give up a SS for the future who brings good D and is our best hittier with RISP right now, and by the way… makes less than a mil and we control for even more years than McLouth, for two rentals?
Not even one prospect, no nothing. If Wren pulls a deal like that… well McLouth deal proves to you we won’t make a deal like that. The Texeira deal was a lesson learned.
by jgalmonte on Jul 14, 2009 7:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes, only getting that return back would be short-sighted. Escobar’s an extremely valuable asset. I’d certainly listen to my scouts’ opinions on Cabrera (cooked or not) and possibly approve the deal were Oakland to toss in an arm like Bailey or a prospect.
You’re wrong on the arbitration point. There’s no way Holliday accepts arbitration rather than signing a free agent contract. He’s THE free agent this off-season and both Boston and the New York teams will be clamoring to sign him. He may not sign an eight year $20 million a year deal, but he’s not taking arbitration money to stay in Atlanta and get older. And if he did, better for us. We just got a very good hitter and a good defensive corner outfielder for below market prices. That’d be worth the budget surprise.
Nor would Gonzalez or Soriano accept arbitration unless they were injured. Both will take home multi-year contracts worth high seven or eight figure salaries.
by 17843 on Jul 14, 2009 7:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Besides...
Keeping Yunel, with Barbaro in the system and at least one or two (correct me if I’m wrong) other Cuban-born players in the minors, could prove even more beneficial considering the seeming changing political climate between the US and Cuba. If the path of Cuban ballplayers to the United States is eased in the next few years, we have as much Cuban representation as any team in the National League, possibly second in baseball behind the White Sox. This could only help in signing any future Cuban arrivals to major league baseball and, as we’ve seen in the WBC and Olympics, there are more than a few players with substantial major league potential. Another reason why I was disappointed that we didn’t keep Pena, at least as a AAA catcher.
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jul 14, 2009 7:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We're citing Holliday's numbers...
as a reason not to trade Yunel for him, so what makes anybody think he’s going to get some huge free agent deal anywhere? The man simply isn’t producing. He desperately needs a Carlos Beltran-style run somewhere to increase his value.
by Thrashy Thrashy on Jul 14, 2009 7:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Orlando Cabrera is still in the Majors??
Yeah that about sums up how I feel about that trade. You’d be getting dead even production for Holliday compared to Escobar, and then losing your solid shortstop for a scrubby one. You’d be securing your left field spot for this season (and then throwing it to the fates for years to come again) and then making your shortstop position a platoon position which (thankfully!) has been one of the positions we haven’t had to worry about since 2000 when Furcal came up.
This trade makes no sense other than from the A’s perspective, which is why it won’t happen. Keep your Moneyball out of my personal space please.
by thrilliam on Jul 14, 2009 7:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wren trades escobar for that garbage..
my allegiance will be with st louis or the brewcrew from that moment on out.
by SidKotchman on Jul 14, 2009 8:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Guys we have to remember there will be ALOT of trade rumors goin on right now. Prolly 90% full of crap. I trust Wren’s judgement.
braves#1
by rockybull on Jul 14, 2009 9:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I would like to point out, and I would like the Athletics Nation to know also, we wouldn’t give up Escobar to get Peavy during the offseason. So what makes anyone think we are going to give him up for Holiday and Carbera? The only way this deal works is if they include one of their top prospects also. But, even then, I still don’t see it happening.
by dlkinser86 on Jul 14, 2009 9:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
To be fair
I think it was Hanson or Heyward that we were not willing to give up for Peavy. I was under the impression that Yunel was no problem in that deal.
Am I mis-remembering here?
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 14, 2009 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought I read
the Braves were fine with sending Morton, Yunel, and Gorkys, but the A’s wanted Locke too, and we said no.
by esadb on Jul 14, 2009 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you want Matt Holiday, Orlando Cabrera, and a top prospect
for Yunel Escobar?
by esadb on Jul 14, 2009 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A trade I would be comfortable with would be
Braves get: Matt Holliday, Orlando Cabrera, Brad Zeigler and Brett Anderson
A’s get: Yunel Escobar and Cole Rohrbough
by NEBravesFan33 on Jul 14, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d hope Wren would get a Major League ready SS prospect for Yunel included in the deal. Trading Yunel and prospects for 2 guys that’ll walk next year(most likely) is not a good idea. It’s a trade that’ll leave Braves fans shouting for his head on a platter.
by Walker Wallace on Jul 14, 2009 9:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sounds to me
Like the A’s beatwriter should have posted that drivel in our Rosterbation thread…it is no better than half the ridiculous trades some people have posted there.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 14, 2009 9:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
How about inquiring about either Gregorio Petit or Clifton Pennington in this deal instead of Orlando Cabrera? I still think Orlando would be a huge downgrade at the position.
by Walker Wallace on Jul 14, 2009 10:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
high trip A shortstops… are neither major league ready?
by Walker Wallace on Jul 14, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Neither are major league shortstops…i.e. they will never be ready. They aren’t good enough to be much above replacement level.
by soup du jour on Jul 15, 2009 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That deal only makes sense if the Braves had a shortstop prospect in the high minors who could step in next year, and basically, the Braves don’t have any quality middle infield prospects above A ball.
by Tokyokie on Jul 14, 2009 11:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Defense
Has anybody seen Yunel’s UZR this year? I decided to check it out and was surprised by how awful it was. It’s -7.1. I just don’t know how to consider him a great defensive shortstop. Even Jeter has a positive number. I’m not saying this means we should trade Escobar, I was just surprised by how awful his UZR was.
by dunnytwogloves on Jul 14, 2009 11:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
UZR fluctuates pretty easily; ie, past results aren’t predictive of future performance unless it’s a really big sample. He has been pretty miserable though.
by 17843 on Jul 14, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What if it was a serious trade rumor, but as a supplemental one?
What if we were to trade Soriano to the Rangers for Elvis Andrus + prospects, then made this trade to play Cabrera at 2nd and put Holliday in left?
I’m just speculating that we have two highly regarded relievers in a market in which they are highly coveted. If we were to trade for a future, controllable SS, maybe then we flip Yunel… I still don’t like it for Holliday/Cabrera, but I’d honestly be ok to flip Yunel in a secondary trade after we’ve secured a high upside SS.
Seriously: when is the last time the Braves flipped someone and lived to regret it? This Yunel situation seems like a sell high to me, and we’ll all look around to see him hitting .250 or something next year after getting busted for roiding.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Jul 15, 2009 1:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
“What if we were to trade Soriano to the Rangers for Elvis Andrus + prospects, then made this trade to play Cabrera at 2nd and put Holliday in left?”
Damn we get Andrus and Prospects I would love for Soriano to pull in that. But we will not be getting Elvis back. He is becoming a fan favorite in Texas and I cant be upset with the Braves for trading him because he was blocked by the great Yunel.
-But seriously this Rumor is awful. Holiday would be just to big of a risk unless Bay signs a contract at 5/50 million in the next 17 days and the Braves want to sign him to some what of a contract similar to Bay’s, and Bay aint signing for that. Holliday is a rental and Orlando C. aint what he used to be. This trade makes no sense at all. Just look at Wrens past he is the one pimpin the shit out of an organization not getting pimped.
-Hopefully Javy will not be traded, or Escobar, but just imagined if they did…………….? We could fill a lot of holes.
Baseball is my life
by That a boy on Jul 15, 2009 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
While creating them, bad effing idea.
Baseball is my life
by That a boy on Jul 15, 2009 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the Braves get a hitter in exchange for Escobar, it’ll be somebody better than this year’s version of Matt Holliday. This proposed trade wouldn’t upgrade the offense overall and makes no sense.
The only thing I could really see Wren doing at this point is trading Kotchman + a prospect or two for somebody like Adam Larcoche or Aubrey Huff. I don’t think he has the payroll flexibility to to get an Adam Dunn or anybody else better than Holliday unless he blew up the pitching staff by trading Vasquez. It’s hard to see how this team competes for the playoffs without Vasquez though. Yeah yeah Tim Hudson is coming back I know, but after the debacle of Mike Hampton does anybody really want to pin their hopes on a starter coming back from TJ?
by redwards95 on Jul 15, 2009 7:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Question...
Would you guys consider a Holliday trade if instead of Yunel, it’s Kelly Johnson going the A’s way?
Thoughts…
by jgalmonte on Jul 15, 2009 8:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Question........
is that a serious question?
by Fischerking on Jul 15, 2009 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question.....
Is that a sarcastic answer?
by jgalmonte on Jul 15, 2009 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point being...
It’s not a no-brainer. We would still have to give up prospects for Matt. Im asking if giving away prospects along with KJ is worth the rental.
by jgalmonte on Jul 15, 2009 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes it was...
I would do that in a sec considering the prospects.
by Fischerking on Jul 15, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BTW
I wasn’t saying that to be a smart ass. I just meant that if we get anything for KJ of value I would be happy. With the emergence of Martin KJ has made himself very expendable.
by Fischerking on Jul 15, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Diaz for Holiday
Its not horrible…
Or maybe it is what do I know.
by esadb on Jul 15, 2009 8:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't like the idea
The reality is, though, is that the Braves are going to have to find an outfielder eventually. I’d like the idea only if we could more or less be guaranteed to see Holliday manning our outfield for a few years.
by kalesi on Jul 15, 2009 9:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Are they?
We have internal outfield options (Schafer, Heyward). I see 1B as the place we need to address the most.
by someguy917 on Jul 15, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not 100% convinced he will end up at 1B. Also he is a lot further away, same as Heyward. When I originally posted this I was going to say how we have McClouth who can play any position, Schafer rehabbing/getting it together in triple A who can play center, and Church is now under control for a while. Add it Diaz and we are loaded in the outfield, while 1B is weak. Kotchman and Free is not exactly depth.
by someguy917 on Jul 15, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barbaro Canizares, Ernesto Mejia, Riaan Spanjer-Furstenburt, Alberto Ordeman…
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Jul 16, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about Esco + for Adrian Gonzalez?
I know it would prob start with Freeman BUT
what about
Esco
Kotchman
Medlen
Minor Leaguers
by drumzalicious on Jul 15, 2009 5:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Who’s gonna be our SS for years to come if we trade Escobar without getting a capable SS prospect in return.
by Walker Wallace on Jul 15, 2009 10:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Just a guess? Infante. Will he be capable? That’s the question. My head says no but my hearts says YEEEESSSSSS!
by soup du jour on Jul 15, 2009 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
they might utilize Hernandez and just have a hole in the lineup.
could go with that Burke fellow that we signed who’s in AAA
Also possibly Infante but i think they value him too much as a DeRosa type
by drumzalicious on Jul 16, 2009 2:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think
we should just hold on because its look like guillen is going to playing alot in the tigers outfield which wouldl eave Maggs very unhappy and sounds like detriot might release him which if they do we will get our hitter behind chipper without giving up anything .
by ~~banditwolf~~ on Jul 17, 2009 7:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If you want a fair Oakland trade here it is, Matt Holliday (salary paid), Jemile Weeks, and Andrew Bailey for Mike Gonzalez, Yunel Escobar, and one or two specs. That leaves a gaping hole at SS but braves could then make a move for Caesar Izturis, JJ Hardy, Jack Wilson, or Marco Scutaro to fill the hole. My preference would be Vazquez for Hardy, Brett Lawrie, and Jeremy Jeffress
by McCann's the Man on Jul 19, 2009 1:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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