Braves President John Schuerholz Apologizes to Tom Glavine
Maybe this will put an end to the public mess that the Braves' release of Tom Glavine has become:
"I as the president of our club could have taken more time to not only explain the circumstances around our decision," Schuerholz said. "Although we made that decision in unanimous fashion, I wanted to express our high regard for him and our view of him being with this organization for many years to come in some sort of connective fashion.
"I'm not regretting the decision making. I'm regretting the manner in which it was portrayed and explained to Tommy. I feel like I could have done a better job with that."
John Schuerholz is a class act and this should prove that the organization and the folks who run it do care about the players and what they mean to the team and the city.
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Comments
JS – 1
TG – 0
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 5, 2009 11:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wren made decisions that help the Braves get better both now and for the future. Glavine acts like spoiled brat. Your score is dead wrong.
Presenting Great Moments in bigjoe's posting history!!!
"Thanks for mentioning my penis, he appreciates it"-5/23/09
"I’m drunk and gay."-5/23/09
"I am a boring dork."-6/3/09
by Rhyno18 on Jun 5, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
THIS
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 6, 2009 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, why can you guys not acknowledge that Wren is being an ass in all of this? Are you just vindictive over Glavine leaving 6 years ago? Are you just mindlessly supporting anything the organization does?
Tom Glavine, a HOF pitcher who helped this organization win it’s only WS (in ATL), was led to believe that he was rehabbing from an injury to join the roster, he was then called in right before he was set to join the team and told his choices were to retire or be cut. Wren then ran to the press and embarassed Glaving by telling them that money was not a motivation, and this move was made because Tom Glavine isn’t good enough to get ML hitters out.
Do you really not get that there are numerous ways that Wren could’ve handled this better from a perspective of PR and respect for a once great player while ending up with the same result of Glavine not pitching on the ML team?
by Lennox on Jun 6, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why can you not acknowledge that Glavine is being a baby?
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 6, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why does he have to be a baby?
He got blindsided and never got a chance to pitch. At the risk of talking out both sides of my mouth, I have no problem with the roster move, but he doesn’t have a right to be pissed about how it went down?
by hoboken_wood on Jun 6, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please explain how he is being a baby.
by Lennox on Jun 6, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"i am going to shove it up there bleep"
“they wanted me to get hurt, no doubt about that.”
“I should be treated differently”
etc, etc, etc.
you guys gotta realize – Tom Glavine was my hero growing up. I mimicked his pitching style and idolized him. Even when he went to the Mets, I cheered for him. If you don’t believe me, go back and read the posts I made about supporting the decision to bring him back this year and give him a chance. I was one of the few to support that. But, he is being ridiculous here.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 6, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“i am going to shove it up there bleep”
This is simply a reaction to how he felt the meeting went.
"they wanted me to get hurt, no doubt about that."
You’re paraphrasing to meet your argument. He said he believed they were counting on him to get hurt again, and not make it back. If I’m wrong, and yours is an exact quote, then by all means. Again though, it’s his right to his own opinion if he’s upset.
"I should be treated differently"
When did that statement occur?
by hoboken_wood on Jun 6, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1. So his immature reaction is justified? Whenever something doesn’t go the way he wants it to, he is allowed to just “stick it up their bleep”? Ok…that is classy and completely grown of him.
2. Here is the exact quote from the interview:
“Absolutely, they were hoping I got hurt, no question in my mind,” Glavine said. “They figured I would either get hurt, and that would be the end of it, or I would pitch so poorly that they figured I was a standup person and would say, ‘no.’”
“they were hoping” and “they wanted me to” are interchangeable here. So yeah, I misquoted, but the meaning is the same and supports my original statement that he is acting like a big baby.
3.
This organization sometimes boxes itself in. They don’t ever take into account [that some] guys deserve to be treated a little bit differently."on the radio interview.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 7, 2009 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1. If he’s pissed, yes. Why wouldn’t he want to show the Braves up after he felt he’s been wrong?
2. Thanks for the quote. Never saw it before.
3. That’s still paraphrasing what he said. Does Tom Glavine not deserve to be given a graceful exit instead of being blindsided like he was? Do you think Schuerholz is soft for issuing an apology? Because he certainly thought it was appropriate.
Point being, I’m not sure why there’s this sentiment on here suggesting that he’s being a baby and should just pack his shit and go home. Is it unreasonable to suggest that he has a right to be upset for being misled? He went through rehab for months to get back to the bigs and never received the chance to pitch an inning.
Today, in baseball context, I’ll take Hanson over Glavine every day of the week. But put yourself in his shoes and try just going home and shrugging all that off.
by hoboken_wood on Jun 7, 2009 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I am 42/3 years old, and haven’t pitched effectively in 3 years and am coming off major surgery and can’t throw faster than 82 MPH and 6 different scouting groups are telling me I can’t do it, I will gladly take my $1M for trying and go retire and enjoy life.
No need for him to be doing this at this point and even less need for him to be acting like a spoiled brat about the whole thing. He was told he can’t cut it anymore and he doesn’t like to hear that. He wants to “prove he can still pitch” when he can’t. It is all about his ego and his prima-donna attitude.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 7, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok let's try this
Scenario #1
Frank Wren says that the team has decided to not go with Glavine as an option, but doesn’t tell why (he can’t cut it anymore).
People ASK why. Frank Wren says some politically correct BS that is an obvious cop-out.
Scenario #2
Frank Wren and company decide to do the honorable and classy thing, and let Glavine go out on his own terms. They hand him the job of the #5 starter. Glavine promptly loses games in blow-out fashion with his 82-mph fastball and his 78 mph changeup looking identical. He is demoted to triple A or the bullpen or forced to retire because he just proved to the world that he is washed up.
Scenario #3
Frank Wren decides that Glavine cannot cut it and tells him so (with the support of the entire organization, including Bobby Cox and JS). Glavine gets mad and insists that he can still do it. The organization tells him the reports of six different scouting groups who all agree that he just can’t do it. They offer him the opportunity to go out with style and retire. He refuses because unanimous opinion be damned, he can still pitch and he will show those jerks “and shove it up there bleeps”
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 6, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You offer him a spot in AAA with the understanding that if he pitches well, he’ll get a spot in the rotation should one open up. If he doesn’t accept it, then HE is the one making the choice to walk away, you say some generic puff BS to the press and wish him the best and turn the focus from Glavine walking away to how excited the organization has become over Tommy Hanson over the past few months..
by Lennox on Jun 6, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“You offer him a spot in AAA”
How is that any less embarrassing to him???
“you say some generic puff BS to the press and wish him the best”
The media would see right through that. They would then ask the quesiton: do you think that Tommy Glavine cannot pitch at the MLB level anymore?
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 6, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention, that we as fans, as well as the other players and Glavine himself would see right through such a statement.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 6, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How is it less embarassing than being cut and then having your GM run to the press to tell everyone that you can’t pitch anymore? Gee, I don’t know.
As for the press, if you can’t deal with the press, then you shouldn’t be the GM of a MLB club.
by Lennox on Jun 6, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They didn’t just cut him. They gave him the option to retire and go out with class, which he is too stubborn to realize is the best move.
Why should GMs be able to deal with the press? To me, I’d rather have a GM who knows how to build a winning baseball team than one who can play a politically correct bs-the-press game.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 6, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They didn’t just cut him. They gave him the option to retire and go out with class, which he is too stubborn to realize is the best move.
Yeah, no body out there finds forced retirement the least bit embarrassing. What Wren wanted, was for Glavine to make his decision to cut him, easier on Frank Wren.
What do they lose by offering him a spot in AAA? Nothing. Hell, Glavine could actually be of value, working with the young pitchers there.
Why should GMs be able to deal with the press? To me, I’d rather have a GM who knows how to build a winning baseball team than one who can play a politically correct bs-the-press game.
Because part of their job is DEALING WITH THE PRESS. If you can’t see why cutting a HOF pitcher (on the verge of getting a million dollars) and telling the press that he can’t get ML hitters out is going to cause something of a bad PR shit storm, then you shouldn’t be the one who is dealing with the press.
by Lennox on Jun 6, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Yeah, no body out there finds forced retirement the least bit embarrassing. What Wren wanted, was for Glavine to make his decision to cut him, easier on Frank Wren.”
but we wouldn’t have known it was “forced” on him. He could have made an announcement saying that he is done and that he thinks the organization is moving towards the future or something along those lines.
“
Because part of their job is DEALING WITH THE PRESS. If you can’t see why cutting a HOF pitcher (on the verge of getting a million dollars) and telling the press that he can’t get ML hitters out is going to cause something of a bad PR shit storm, then you shouldn’t be the one who is dealing with the press”
So what does Glavine’s past accomplishments have to do with how he can pitch (or rather, how he CAN’T) today? Are you saying that Frank Wren should have been dishonest with the press and lied? I’d rather have someone with some integrity who isn’t scared to tell the truth dealing with the press than someone who will lie and sugarcoat the truth.
Besides, the number one job of a GM is to build the best team possible, not be politically correct with the press.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 6, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tell lies is part of Frank Wren’s job. We had no interest in Derek Lowe (Just $15MM a year interest). We were going to fill LF with internal options (Oh look, Garret Anderson). Tommy Hanson had a chance to make the team out of ST (yeah right, like they were going to let him be a SUPER 2).
He manages to talk about Frenchy without telling everyone how much he sucks.
But cutting Glavine is the one time that he has to be honest and tell everyone exactly why it was done?
by Lennox on Jun 6, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The bottom line is that Glavine is just too proud to admit when he is done. Like Brett Favre, he needs to just know when to call it quits. The best players know when it is over and they enjoy the ride down the final stretch.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 6, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And yet a couple of months ago Wren was ready for Tom Glavine to be in his starting rotation.
Is Glavine’s stuff really that much worse now than it was then?
Listen, I was against signing Glavine in the first place, on a baseball level, I’m glad he’s not taking a roster spot from Hanson or Medlen (or even Reyes), but I’m not the one who made the choice to sign him in the first place. When you choose to bring back a guy with Glavine’s history and reputation, you have to find a way to get rid of him in a dignified matter.
And, off topic, but Favre is actually a pretty good QB over the last couple of years, his issues are completely different than Glavine’s.
by Lennox on Jun 6, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A few months ago
Glavine wasn’t having setbacks on his rehab or throwing 82 MPH fastballs. It was still an unknown variable then. Now it is known. Had he rehabbed over the winter and been throwing 82MPH fastballs in his workouts, I am sure he would have been non-tendered.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 6, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, as I recall, 2 months ago Glavine’s fastball wasn’t even getting out of the 70s.
I mean, seriously, I haven’t seen him pitch in his rehab, but Tom’s been a guy who has been pitching off of weak stuff and a good head for the game for years now. It’s not like we brought him in because he was bringing the heat.
by Lennox on Jun 6, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
THIS.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 8, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
...he is?
He led the league in picks last year and let that team collapse down the stretch. I guess you’d have been calling Glavine a “pretty good pitcher” if he put together an ERA under 6 and a winning percentage better than .333?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 8, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was offered that spot...
He chose not to take it.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 8, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
#2: I think you know this, but we don’t have games to give away like that to prove a point.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 8, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He wasn't "led to believe" anything.
He was told we had a spot for him on April 16th, when he was supposed to be healthy and ready to pitch. He was not. When he was finally ready after that, the spot was ready to be filled by a younger, cheaper, and likely better option.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 8, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What part of this don’t you get? Wren has been acting like an ass, JS just came in and said, “sorry that Frank is a giant prick”, I’m the one who really runs this team.
by Lennox on Jun 6, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re right, Schuerholz really runs the team. So who made the actual decision to let Glavine go?
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
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by cbwilk on Jun 6, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it was EVERYONE.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 6, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is irrelevant.
JS is basically saying, “Sorry for us (as personified by Frank Wren) being asses about this.”
by Lennox on Jun 6, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For someone who's been complaining about Glavine being misquoted...
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 8, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So if they weren't happy with the way the meeting ended...
I wonder just what was said just before before teething Tommy stormed out the door.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 5, 2009 11:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Probably something like…
“Tommy, are you crying? Why are you crying?! THERE’S NO CRYING IN BASEBALL!!!”
Presenting Great Moments in bigjoe's posting history!!!
"Thanks for mentioning my penis, he appreciates it"-5/23/09
"I’m drunk and gay."-5/23/09
"I am a boring dork."-6/3/09
by Rhyno18 on Jun 5, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Best line of any movie ever, hands down.
Proof that when posting while high or intoxicated can lead to some really funny posts
by bravesrbaseball on Jun 6, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe this will put an end to the public mess
Well said, bald blue man.
Nice band-aid, homeboy upstairs. Good show.
by Lizziebeth on Jun 6, 2009 12:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is good to see. I like Glavine, and hated to see the mess this had become. I agreed with the decision, but hoped it could be settled with good vibes so there would be no uncomfortable moments when #47 is retired next year.
"Ohhhh Shit."-Bobby Cox, 3/28/09
by 10-4 on Jun 6, 2009 12:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Classy comments
I once wrote that most of the posters to this site sound like they’re about 13 years old, but I’m prepared to lower that estimate, and with it, my regard.
The un-diluted glee with which you turn your back on someone you perceive as no longer valuable to you says little for your love of the game and the players who have made it possible.
In a different era your ilk would be yelling for Gehrig to “shut up and get off the field already, we wanna watch a game.”
What exactly is it you root for? The emblem on the cap? The jersey? Are you simply cheering for a bunch of guy’s you’d replace in a heartbeat for players with a five-point higher average in the hopes that they will beat a group of guys you hate today, but would love tomorrow if your team could just swing the deal to put them on the roster? Replacing every player to win a division is a Pyrrhic victory at best, like losing a family to save the family home from fire.
If you weren’t cheering for the personal triumphs of the players who have made up this team, for Tom Glavine to overcome his injuries and succeed again for a little while, for Jeff Francouer to conquer the demons that incite him to swing at bad pitches, etc. then you aren’t fans. You’re merely self-centered children stuffing yourselves with beer and hot dogs while sitting in the coliseum yelling at Caesar to throw the latest contestant to the lions and to bring out the next contender.
You aren’t fans of baseball, you’re merely spoiled brats ready to chuck off last decade’s hero for the next shiny thing to come down the pike. You have much in common with prepubescent girls, falling in love over and over again with each new boy on the cover of Tiger Beat.
Obsequious one moment, contemptuous the next, ready to throw your grandmother to the wolves if her average ever falls below the Mendoza line.
You aren’t fans. At best — at best! — you’re employers: the boss who forgets your contributions and who throws you over for an unproven prospect who might now be able to get the job done a little quicker or for a little less money. That’s fine, the world needs its bosses. Just don’t pretend that you and the players are all part of the some greater team or have any bond when and if you should see them in public.
You are just as bad as Mets and Phillies fans.
by John Drake number 6 on Jun 6, 2009 2:58 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I explained this in the live thread last night, but I’ll do it again.
I cheer for the Atlanta Braves. I want the Braves to win as many games as possible and get the most out of their talent. When they do things that interfere with that (IE bring in a 43 year old pitcher, trot out a sub-average corner outfielder), I boo and vent my frustrations.
Why should I cheer for a player who is depriving the team of its goals?
Heres a real world example. You own stock in a company, and have for years. The company was once churning out great dividends for you, but lately, they’ve been smaller. The executives in the company are the reason why. You’ve been invested in this company for so long, that you feel like you’re a part of it. In your world, you’re supposed to sit around and talk about how great the executives were years ago when you were getting your dividends, and be optimistic that they’ll increase in the future. In my world, you bitch about the executives fucking up your income and demand a change, because anything would be better than what you’re getting.
Having a spine > blind optimism
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?"
President, CEO, and chairman of the Brandon Jones fan club. PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK!
by bigjoe on Jun 6, 2009 7:49 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I pull up somewhat short of where John Drake number 6 comes down on the stalwarts and many regular contributors of the site, but do rather obviously share many of the same concerns.
One of the reasons baseball is so great is everyday is a new game, what happened yesterday or last year is not a reliable indicator of what will happen next, and an individual player or an entire team is capable of capturing lightening and vaulting to previously unanticipated levels of success at any point, with essentially no forewarning.
The Braves’ worst to first season (1991) – sparked by Schuerholz’s much criticized acquistion of Terry Pendleton, who was coming off a bad year w/ the Cardinals and had been plagued by hamstring problems, but won the MVP – is a great example. Another is the Braves unbelievable stretch run in 1993 in which they chased down the Giants and won the NL West on the last day of the season, finishing with 104 wins. More recently, who would have bet the farm on Chipper maintaining a plus .400 batting average most of last season or Dustin Pedroia being the runaway winner of the AL MVP?
It is one damn thing to hold perceived rationally based opinions based on pure mathmatical analysis of recent past performances, but something else entirely to, for example, offer up militantly cocksure speculations about a player’s character, integrity, sexuality or longterm potential simply because he has been under-performing or made some stupid statement to the media when frustrated or disappointed.
One of the things I’ve said before is the Braves have a tremendous group of experienced baseball men running the organization, to include Schuerholz and Cox – both of whom are world class – and an awesome scouting and talent evaluating staff. To me, it is nothing short of wildly presumptious for anyone on this board to think they are better positioned to make roster decisions than the Braves’ baseball men.
by fandave on Jun 6, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 8, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's a little help for you
I’m sorry you feel most of us are 13-year-olds who hate baseball, the Braves, and mostly likely apple pie as well. I just thought I’d give you a little advice for your next argument about other people’s writing abilities. A lot of this is stylistic, but there were definitely some issues with comma and apostrophe usage.
I once wrote that most of the posters to this site sound like they’re about 13 years old, but I’m prepared to lower that estimate and with it my regard.
The undiluted glee with which you turn your back on someone you perceive as no longer valuable to you says little for your love of the game and the players who have made it possible.
In a different era your ilk would be yelling for Gehrig to "shut up and get off the field already! We want to watch a game!"
What exactly is it you root for? Is it the emblem on the cap? Is it the jersey? Are you simply cheering for a bunch of guys you’d replace in a heartbeat for players with five-point higher averages? This group of guys you hate today you would love tomorrow if your team could just swing the deal to put them on the roster. Replacing every player to win a division is a Pyrrhic victory at best. It’s like losing a family to save the family home from fire.
Were you cheering for the personal triumphs of the players who have made up this team? If you weren’t cheering for Tom Glavine to overcome his injuries and succeed again for a little while or for Jeff Francouer to conquer the demons that incite him to swing at bad pitches, then you aren’t fans. You’re merely self-centered children stuffing yourselves with beer and hot dogs while sitting in the Colosseum yelling at Caesar to throw the latest contestant to the lions and bring out the next contender.
You aren’t fans of baseball; you’re merely spoiled brats ready to throw last decade’s hero aside for the next shiny thing to come down the pike. You have much in common with prepubescent girls, falling in love over and over again with each new boy on the cover of Tiger Beat. You’re obsequious one moment and contemptuous the next. You’re ready to throw your grandmother to the wolves if her average ever falls below the Mendoza line.
You aren’t fans. At best you’re the boss who forgets people’s contributions and tosses them aside for unproven prospects that might be able to get the job done a little quicker or for a little less money. That’s fine. The world needs its bosses. Just don’t pretend that you and the players are all part of some greater team or that you would have any bond when and if you should see them in public.
You are just as bad as Mets and Phillies fans.
As someone who was once a prepubescent girl and remains a loyal Braves fan, I also feel a need to point out that I didn’t have this issue of shiny objects distracting me. I only ever had one crush: Andruw Jones. I still hope Andruw succeeds in Texas, but I rejoiced when the Braves didn’t resign him. As Braves fans, we love the franchise. Remember when Glavine was great? I also remember when he wasn’t. I wish him well, and now let’s worry about filling our team with players still able to compete at the major league level.
Have a nice weekend!
by RosieSparkle on Jun 6, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tommy turned his back on us first.
He should have never been re-signed anyway.
Official MCM Hater!
Summer 2009 Troll Call: Bedazzlers(2), Ratbirds, Squeelers(2), Rosencopters, Cardinals
by gramsey712 on Jun 6, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Want the Braves to Win
I cheer for the Braves, not for the individual components that make up the team. Because the Braves are a team. Sure, I’d like Francoeur to turn it around, and for Glavine to return to his 1990’s form, but neither of those are likely anymore. If they are not helping the Braves win, then it’s time to do something different.
This ain’t backyard softball.
by tchoup on Jun 6, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You missed my point. While I’m ambivalent about the decision to let Tom go, I didn’t criticize management for making it . Rather, I’m criticising those of you who have written so cavalierly here about it.
I am appalled at the abject lack of concern and downright arrogant glee expressed in this thread for someone who played an essential part in this Brave’s greatness to which you’ve all become so acustomed.
It might or might not be Tom’s time to leave the stage and it might be something we all have to accept and adjust to, but there’s a respectful, dignified way to watch this play out and an immature way. Heckling him, with a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately attitude falls into the latter category.
“I cheer for the Braves, not for the individual components that make up the team. Because the Braves are a team.”
What exactly do you think a team is? If you think they’re “components” that should be swapped in and out at a moment’s notice then maybe NASCAR should be your sport.
A team is a group of individuals who come together for a common purpose, with an understanding of their collective strengths and weaknesses and a willingness to help each other. A team is more than the sum of the parts.
The attitude you avow makes you a consumer of sports moments, not a fan.
It’s hypocritical: implicit in everyone’s posts is a notion of a bond between themselves and the team, but there is no bond —not only are you prepared to excise a player at the first sign of a problem, but you do it remorselessly.
It’s anti-thetical: you want a bond, but do you think anyone on this team -or any other- would welcome any of you into their midst with the way you’ve comported yourselves here?
And it’s shameless: I have trouble imagining any of you not sucking up to any past or present player you might run into, forgetting all the while to mention to them “you know I called for your ouster every chance I got.”
“This ain’t backyard softball.”
Wow! You make writing about the actual players sound so rough and tough.
by John Drake number 6 on Jun 6, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A team is the sum of the players on the roster. You can find it at mlb.com/braves under "25-man roster."
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 8, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This isn’t little league where you cheer for you kid no matter if if sucks or is the best player on the team. This is professional baseball where you want the best possible team on the field. You don’t cheer for individuals who cry about where they are placed in the batting order and blame anything and everyone else other than themselves for their mistakes.
I have been a Brave’s fan since 1985 (the year I was born). I have never had an allegiance to any other team. I was born into a Braves family and will raise a Braves family. However, unlike you, my kids will know when a player just doesn’t have the ability to help this team.
I also cheer for this TEAM. I am a Braves fan, not a Tom Glavine or Jeff Francoeur or Brian McCann fan. If Chipper Jones were to have played for another team, I probably would not idolize him as much as I do. It is that simple. So to answer your question, yes, I cheer for the emblem on the cap (and for any players that happen to be on my fantasy team).
And to your point about how adolescent we all are I ask this: What is more childish – being a member of an online community where we can all share in our frustrations and successes as Braves fans or coming to said site to criticize those members for their opinions?
You may be able to throw out 3-syllable words that most people would have to look up into a dictionary, but that doesn’t make your online bitching any more logical or insightful than others who have expressed a similar opinion.
And in summation I just want to say this: Francoeur has worn out his welcome here. Why? Because of his batting average? Nope. KJ is struggling just like FYF is. What is it that separates Francoeur from the rest? It is his stinking attitude and his sense of entitlement and accomplishment. It is his incessant blaming of others for his failures. It is his constant griping and complaining the minute anyone suggests that he cannot perform at the MLB level right now.
What separates Tom Glavine now? Well, for starters, he thinks that he should receive special treatment. I don’t know what he is thinking, but anyone who turns their back on a company and then comes back several years later as a worse player than when they left and still expects special treatment is delusional. He should just thank Frank Wren for the $1M and for the vacation he just enjoyed in Florida and the opportunity to show if he can compete against MLB hitting still or not.
Finally (for real this time), if you don’t like what we say on this site and feel the need to degrade us and call us names, feel free to not read what we write. There are other sites where Braves fans such as yourself can share you common belief that Glavine should be our ace and that FYF should be hitting cleanup. I would suggest the blog on the Braves official site where everyone is screaming for Frank Wren to be fired…I think you would fit in nicely there.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 6, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some of my reply to tchoup would have been just as relevant here (especially in response to how you pat yourself on the back for being a fan of the emblem), but I’ll comment here on a couple of points.
“This is professional baseball where you want the best possible team on the field.”
Would you be just as big a Braves fan if tomorrow the entire team was swapped for the Yankee’s roster? And would you lustfully boo Chipper, McCann, et al when they came to town?
Don’t you find it even a little ironic that you criticise players on this site yet you are thin-skinned about what you perceive to be criticism from me?
by John Drake number 6 on Jun 6, 2009 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm thin-skinned?
really? Because I replied to your rant that makes me thin-skinned?
And yes, if the Braves swapped rosters with the Yankees I would still cheer for the Braves. I would boo A-rod, Jeter and some other Yankees because I really can’t stand them, and I would still cheer for Chipper and McCann just as I cheer for other non-braves. But when they played the Braves, I would root against them. I wouldn’t boo them though, because certain players who are good and are good people don’t deserve to be booed.
It’s hypocritical: implicit in everyone’s posts is a notion of a bond between themselves and the team, but there is no bond —not only are you prepared to excise a player at the first sign of a problem, but you do it remorselessly.
I did not excise Tom Glavine or Jeff Francoeur at the first sign of their problems. I have been one of the biggest Tom Glavine supporters on this site, both when he was resigned and also when he was suddenly cut (go back and read the posts, if you don’t believe me). However, Tommy’s attitude and Jeff’s attitude are what have turned me against them.
Have a nice day.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 7, 2009 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose I would...
Aside from the fact that that’s about the most ridiculous notion I’ve read in some time. That’s the kind of rosterbation that leaves you blind WITH hairy palms.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 8, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong as hell.
These are not decisions made based on whims. If you’re not moving forward, you’re falling behind.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 8, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well this makes a lot of sense
Well, for starters, he thinks that he should receive special treatment. I don’t know what he is thinking…
by hoboken_wood on Jun 6, 2009 12:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It always amuses me when people try to find ANYTHING wrong with someone else’s pose in an attempt to discredit them, yet all they end up doing is making an ass out of themselves. What I wrote makes perfect sense.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 6, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It wasn’t the entire post—just that one line, which is why I pointed it out. I’ll go ahead and maintain that the line actually did not make sense, but have fun with that.
It’s pretty important to suggest that Glavine thinks A, B and C (which you’ve done in this entire thread) and literally in the very next thought say “I don’t know what he’s thinking.” That doesn’t make me an ass for bringing that to your attention.
Quit being so defensive about your post. You root for the laundry. I get it. I happen to agree. But you act like you’ve never been called out before. Say something and back it up with insight, because you’re not immune to criticism with a line like that. Just because it’s a lengthy read doesn’t mean it’s a gem.
by hoboken_wood on Jun 6, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thought A: Glavine is thinking X, Y and Z
Thought B: I don’t know why he is thinking this
A period at the end of a sentence indicates the end of something. A new sentence is the beginning of something new.
“I don’t know what he is thinking” is an expression used in the English language to convey confusion as to what a particular person or thing is doing.
I have been called out plenty of times on here before, but thanks for the effort.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 6, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know how to punctuate sentences
thanks, but there’s no period at the end of those two thoughts. Whatever you MEANT to say isn’t conveyed in what you wrote. Try some syntax next time before you become a smart ass.
by hoboken_wood on Jun 7, 2009 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No period? Really?
Let me copy/paste your own version of my quote:
Well this makes a lot of sense
Well, for starters, he thinks that he should receive special treatment. I don’t know what he is thinking…
Do you see that little dot after the word “treatment”? That would be a period. Thus indicating two separate sentences.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 7, 2009 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+2
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 8, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 8, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What this thread has become.
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?"
President, CEO, and chairman of the Brandon Jones fan club. PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK!
by bigjoe on Jun 6, 2009 1:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My cripple fight picture was deleted. Fail
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?"
President, CEO, and chairman of the Brandon Jones fan club. PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK!
by bigjoe on Jun 7, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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