Glavine, Campillo, Barton, Medlen, Hanson, McLouth... a busy Wednesday for the Atlanta Braves
by gondeee on Jun 3, 2009 10:40 PM EDT
in Braves Trade News
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PrintAfter the Atlanta Braves came back to win Tuesday's game in extra innings, the players waited patiently for Wednesday's game, but the Braves front office was busy moving players up and down between the majors and minors, trading players, and parting ways with a Braves legend. Here is a recap of the day's events:
- They placed pitcher Jorge Campillo on the DL for the second time this season with rotator cuff tendinitis.
- They recalled outfielder Brian Barton.
- They announced that they had released future Hall of Fame pitcher Tom Glavine after they deemed he could not pitch at the major league level. Glavine said he was surprised and disappointed.
- The team announced that Kris Medlen would move to the bullpen.
- They announced that they would recall top prospect Tommy Hanson to start against the Brewers on Saturday, making his major league debut.
- Just after game time they announced that they had traded Charlie Morton, Gorkys Hernandez, and Jeff Locke to Pittsburgh for outfielder Nate McLouth.
Quite a busy day for the Atlanta Braves and their fans, and one with a lot of emotion, shock and excitement. The news of Tom Glavine was not the way I think many people, including Tom, wanted his career as a Brave to end. The news that another Tom, Tommy Hanson, would be finally called into big league service is what Atlanta fans have been waiting for all year.
At the end of the day the Braves strengthened their outfield (something they tried to do all off-season), acquired a lead-off hitter, strengthened their bullpen, and added the most promising pitching prospect they've had since Steve Avery to their major league rotation. I don't think anyone had any idea all of this would happen when they woke up this morning (probably not even the Braves front office).
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Great day
I think the Braves just got a lot better today. This trade will hopefully move Kelly down into a run producing spot in the order which pushes Frenchy even further down.
Wonder if they will continue to utilize Kotchman in the #2 Spot behind him. That would be pretty killin
Not saying I’m against it or for it, but that’s alot of lefties in a row: McLouth, Kotchman, Chipper, Heap, Anderson, Johnson…
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 3, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you really think I’m unaware that Chipper is a switch hitter? If Kotchman comes back tomorrow, which I believe someone in the game thread said…could be incorrect of course, that is what I was referring too.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 3, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
He sort of isn't though...
that injury is leading to some real struggling.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 3, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Did he start today against a LH pitcher?
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 3, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Chipper? No, he came off the bench
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?"
President, CEO, and chairman of the Brandon Jones fan club. PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK!
Ha...
I think that was rhetorical.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 4, 2009 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I was simply pointing a flaw in your logic. You commented that we’d have a ton of lefties in a row-but Chipper bats from either side.
We do have a ton of lefties.
Again…I post on this site every day. Do you honestly think I don’t know that Chipper is a switch hitter? C’mon man…I’ve seen your posts and I know that you’re an intelligent poster.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 3, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I wasn’t attempting to discredit you, just pointing out a lapse in your argument.
I pounce on semantics.
Pujols!
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 4, 2009 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions
omgsh, do you even know what a switch hitter is???
haha
Guy #1: Damn, these oysters are going to make us horny as hell...
Girl #2: Oh yeah, I forgot oysters are hermaphrodites.
by bwellnjonesco on Jun 4, 2009 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Where does Esco go, then?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 3, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
my vote…
1-mclouth
2-esco
3-chipper
4-mccann
5-anderson
6-kotch
7-kelly
8-frenchie
9-hudson
but, switch esco and kotch and its still pretty sweet (WAKE UP FRENCHIE!!!!)
I love how you put Hudson on there. Forward thinker I see....
Official MCM Hater!
Summer 2009 Troll Call: Bedazzlers(2), Ratbirds, Squeelers(2), Rosencopters, Cardinals
Moves obviously aren’t completed yet.
You have to assume that Barton is sent back down tomorrow to make room for McClouth. Following that, Blanco is likely to be sent down on Saturday to make room for Hanson.
And there’s a few more long term moves pending. At some point, we’ll likely want Campillo back in the bullpen, but you might see the Braves wait to reactive him until there’s another injury-considering that he’s back on the DL already, they’ll probably make him do a much longer rehab this time. Also, Tim Hudson should be back for us by mid August, and it’s tough to see where he fits in unless there’s another pitching injury. We’ve already established that Tommy is supposed to be up for good now that he’s been called.
In terms of position players, we’re looking another couple months before Infante is back. Frankly, I’d be surprised if Diory Hernandez lasts with the big league team until then, but I’m not sure where else the Braves go for a utility IF. Lastly, I’m dead certain Schafer returns to the roster sometime this year. It will probably be in September, but if he can get his bat working in Gwinnett, you might see him take Francoeur’s roster spot before then.
Going to be a busy season.
Two months was supposed to be the high end of Infante's injury...
And it’s been a couple weeks already.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 3, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Wasn’t sure if the diagnosis ended up being worse than I heard.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 3, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I was being conservative because I wasn’t really sure about his timetable. The idea of a microfracture on the hand is enough to make me wince.
I guess that could be true...
He was injured very similarly last year on 1/18, and didn’t start his rehab until 5/5
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 3, 2009 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
i like this lineup
McLouth
Escobar
Chipper
McCann
Anderson
Kotchman
Frenchy
Kelly
The only guys you could switch around would be kotch/KJ/escobar. I think a lineup where McLouth and Kotch hit 1-2, and Esco and KJ hit 6-7.
I hit FYF 7th instead of 8th, since i really dont want 2 automatic outs in a row with the pitcher coming up.
"Jason Heyward might be the best offensive prospect i've seen in fifteen years. His game is solid. I would trade any of the current players we have on our 25 man roster for Heyward. He's that good." - NL Scout.
I just really hate to see KJ so low in the order…
PS…am I the only one who constantly spells “low” like “lowe” now? I always have to correct myself.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 3, 2009 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
When Kotchman gets back, I think I’d bat him second. Try this.
CF McLouth
1B Kotchman
3B Chipper
C McCann
RF Diaz
2B Johnson
LF Anderson
SS Escobar
Gah, I don’t like that either. I really don’t envy Bobby Cox’s job when he gets everyone healthy.
I think Escobar is best left alone...
And I looked up his lineup splits to prove it, but it seems that in limited work, he’s done pretty well in the 8-hole.
.333 .410 .486 in 72 ABs there, with 11 runs (pretty good for that spot.)
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 3, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually hate the idea of looking at splits to determine where a player should bat. Obviously, some guys just react differently to being placed in different spots in the order, but it doesn’t make sense to me. If you’re a good hitter, you should be a good hitter wherever you bat in the order. If you’re a bad hitter, it shouldn’t matter where you hit.
I know that there’s some mental differences to the game, but why you simply don’t approach each AB the same is a bit weird to me. I don’t like believing that player X is a good hitter in the 5th spot, but a bad hitter in the 2nd spot. In both spots, the goal is identical-reach base as often as you can, and make as few outs as possible. Drive runners in when they’re in scoring position.
And generally, when you talk about batting in certain spots, you’re often forced to make decision on tiny sample sizes.
i agree
esco shouldnt hit anywhere but leadoff or 2nd, preferably 2nd. and ya, i like KJ below GA Kotch and Frenchy (well, im not sure about FYF), it gives us much better balance.
"Jason Heyward might be the best offensive prospect i've seen in fifteen years. His game is solid. I would trade any of the current players we have on our 25 man roster for Heyward. He's that good." - NL Scout.
by Scott Coleman on Jun 3, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Because
ill probably cry if FYF or GA are hitting 8th. MAYBE Kotchman there, but i still like KJ. He can also lay down a bunt, thus in late innings he can move a runner into scoring position for a PH.
"Jason Heyward might be the best offensive prospect i've seen in fifteen years. His game is solid. I would trade any of the current players we have on our 25 man roster for Heyward. He's that good." - NL Scout.
by Scott Coleman on Jun 4, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
More importantly
To me, the real question about acquiring McLouth is where he plays defensively. Accounts of his CF defense are mixed—with some thinking he can barely hold down CF and others arguing he’s a corner masquerading in a GG CF’s body.
Will Bobby put McLouth in CF full time? To me, that could be problematic. Better would be to slide McLouth over to RF (with FYF sliding up I-85 to Gwinett) at least part-time, letting Blanco man CF.
Knowing Bobby I would think it’s a lock that for the time being Nate is playing CF.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 3, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, probably
Just wishful thinking on my part. I’m gonna keep an open mind until I see Nate play a little with my own eyes, but the CF experiment could get a little ugly.
Well, from what I understand, he’s a farce of a gold-glover, but not exactly a liability. He’s pretty average at one of the most important defensive positions, which makes him a pretty good defensive player.
We’ll see, though.
Was it Fangraphs that ripped his GG apart? Lots of web gems, but pretty average (at best) with the rest of his game in CF?
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 4, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Nah…I thought they had a full writeup on how terrible of a choice he was for a GG, but I’m thinking now it was someone else.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 4, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
He’s actually only at I think -1 /150 this year…which is a huge improvement
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?"
President, CEO, and chairman of the Brandon Jones fan club. PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK!
What about this lineup? though I don’t see bobby using this one
CF McLouth
2B Johnson
3B Chipper
SS Escobar
C McCann
RF Diaz
1B Kotchman
LF Anderson
I don't think Esco has quite the power I want...
to hit cleanup. Although Bobby was saying on the pregame show Monday that he can “hit 35 homers some day if he wants to.”
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 4, 2009 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I love Bobby, but he says some crazy stuff sometimes.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
I mean...
they say the same thing about Ichiro.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 4, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think anyone had any idea all of this would happen when they woke up this morning (probably not even the Braves front office).
I hope they would have…otherwise, this was really a hell of a day.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
frank wren
sounded exausted on the phone on baseball tonight.
"Jason Heyward might be the best offensive prospect i've seen in fifteen years. His game is solid. I would trade any of the current players we have on our 25 man roster for Heyward. He's that good." - NL Scout.
by Scott Coleman on Jun 3, 2009 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Emotions certainly played a role, though.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 3, 2009 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I bet he'll get an offer.
It won’t be because he doesn’t want to play.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 3, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Who would give him an offer?
I mean besides a team like the Mets, who may be his only option, where could he and would he go?
I'm a lefty, maybe Lou should give me a shot for a position in the bullpen!!
perhaps, but I don't know why he'd accept it
He just needs to give it up
I'm a lefty, maybe Lou should give me a shot for a position in the bullpen!!
Was actually going to point it out. Philly is just about the only competitive team that could use a pitcher like Glavine.
He could go to Texas-they need to send Derek Holland back to AAA, plus they just put Padilla on waivers.
yes it could, but honestly
why would he go there?
I'm a lefty, maybe Lou should give me a shot for a position in the bullpen!!
Money, drive, bitterness?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 4, 2009 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I hope he knows better than to try to pitch in the AL...
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 4, 2009 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions
It would be pretty funny if he went back to the Mets. After all the bitching they did about his final start for them.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 3, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I am actually proud to be a Brave fan today
Wren answered our prayers today. He has gone up 4 notches in my book over the past two days (Schafer, Glavine, Mclouth, and HANSON!!!). I can honestly say that the Braves are putting the best team on the field. If we don’t win this year, we can’t blame Wren, only FUGA (jk….but not really).
SubParr
Shit…FUGA is the least of our problems now. FYF should have a target on his damn back.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 4, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
MEEEE TOO. I canceled dinner plans i had saturday night to catch Hanson’s start.
"Jason Heyward might be the best offensive prospect i've seen in fifteen years. His game is solid. I would trade any of the current players we have on our 25 man roster for Heyward. He's that good." - NL Scout.
by Scott Coleman on Jun 4, 2009 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, he said something about how he was “making strides” lately, or something. I was only half listening.
I’m just baffled with how he looks so confident in some aspects of the GM position, but can’t grasp the fact that FYF simply isn’t a major league hitter.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 4, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
not so sure
I think he knows exactly how bad Frenchy is, but with nothing to replace him with what more can he do. He was talking Jeff up on the BBTN telecast, maybe hoping some dumbass GM would call him up. Where’s Bevasi and Bowden when you need them? I think we have seen that Wren has the balls to make moves that are for the best of the team regardless of sentimentality.
Brandon Jones should easily deserve a shot out there with the way FYF is playing. It can’t hurt the team one bit, other than the fact that it adds another LH hitter to a team that already has plenty of them.
And yes, I’m aware Chipper is a switch hitter.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 4, 2009 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Except he is pretty much hitting for even less power than Gregor Blanco right now. Which is surprising.
And? He’s got a .393 OBP this year in AAA…better than Blanco, better than Schafer, better than FYF, better than Anderson…I’d love to stick a guy who can actually hit for power on a consistent basis out there, but we simply don’t have it. Perhaps we should stick Barbaro out there…that would make for some adventures in RF.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 4, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
He's getting paid a lot of money, though...
To sit on the bench.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 4, 2009 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I assume you’re talking about FYF, and you’re right…but I think most people agreed that he was getting paid to much money to begin with. But we can’t really worry about money when he’s eating a whole in our lineup.
Preferably he’d be in AAA, not sitting on the bench as well.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 4, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm just suggesting that there might be somebody above Wren that might not be happy with such a decision.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 4, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
well… i don’t have the exact quote, but it went like this: he talked about how much FUGA has improved lately, and then he said something like: “and francoeur… he’s showing signs.” and then he moved on.
while wren didn’t proclaim he had just bought a failcoeur t-shirt, he didn’t vomit praise either. sounded like he was just running through commentary on the outfield spots and threw out some lukewarm words for RF in accordance with prudence.
Frenchy is going to get much more rope than just about anyone because he has, generally, been disproportionaly popular in Atlanta, particularly with women and children. They view him as a guy with big potential to draw in fans and move merchandise, even if he can just get up to a level where he’s close to an average ML player.
BRAVES GET BRAD HAWPE FOR JOJO REYES AND FYF!
Just kidding =] i dont know what i would do with myself if it was true.
"Jason Heyward might be the best offensive prospect i've seen in fifteen years. His game is solid. I would trade any of the current players we have on our 25 man roster for Heyward. He's that good." - NL Scout.
Wish I could record and play back this little 5 min spiel MLB Network just did about the trade…good lord, they were all over the place.
baseball tonight
just praised the braves like no other and said they killed the pirates in the deal. lets hope so.
"Jason Heyward might be the best offensive prospect i've seen in fifteen years. His game is solid. I would trade any of the current players we have on our 25 man roster for Heyward. He's that good." - NL Scout.
by Scott Coleman on Jun 4, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
ESPN doesn’t really know our farm system-they’re consistently reporting this trade as “Nate McLouth for three minor leaguers.” Which is informative, but not all that insightful. Gorkys Hernandez was rated #62 in the country by baseballamerica.com before the year-he shouldn’t be completely anonymous.
Seriously…you simply can’t trust these major media outlets about these kinds of things. MLB Network took several seconds trying to figure out whether or not it was 3 pitchers, or 2 pitchers and a position player.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 4, 2009 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I think that has more to do with the national audience's knowledge of the Braves' system than ESPN's...
They were talking up Heyward and Freeman.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 4, 2009 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Tim Kurkjian barely even came up with Freeman’s name.
And if you haven’t heard of Jason Heyward, you shouldn’t be allowed to speak on a show titled “Baseball tonight.”
Fair.
But my point was really that they almost always just say “minor leaguers” on the crawl if the guys haven’t seen significant ML time (and I don’t think Morton really qualifies.)
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 4, 2009 4:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow…reading what the fine folks over at Bucs Dugout have to say about the trade, and some of them are saying that the trade should have started with Hanson and progressed from there.
I guess TC isn’t the only site to have crazy trade talk.
That’s kind of funny. Looking at the Pirates, I think I can say, quite fairly, that they don’t have enough trade value on the entire team to swing a deal for Hanson. Unless they were willing to send us Maholm. And I guess Andy LaRoche is still young enough to be considered a valuable commodity.
A CI who can't hit for power OR average?
Eew…
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 4, 2009 2:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Good lord. After reading further down the thread, they have some people over there who…not sure how to put this nicely…simply don’t understand how baseball works.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 4, 2009 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m like a 1/5 of the way down the page and it’s already entering trainwreck material: link
Looks like there are a few people trying to fight the good fight, though.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 4, 2009 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions
LOL at 1/3 of them
they sound like they think McLouth is Albert Pujols and for them not to get a stud prospect like Heyward is crazy and rediculous.
"Jason Heyward might be the best offensive prospect i've seen in fifteen years. His game is solid. I would trade any of the current players we have on our 25 man roster for Heyward. He's that good." - NL Scout.
by Scott Coleman on Jun 4, 2009 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
...
maybe i should show them my signature?
"Jason Heyward might be the best offensive prospect i've seen in fifteen years. His game is solid. I would trade any of the current players we have on our 25 man roster for Heyward. He's that good." - NL Scout.
by Scott Coleman on Jun 4, 2009 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, I’ve never heard of this guy Tabata, even though he’s apparently among baseball’s top 100 prospects. But there’s this persistent belief that he’s clearly better than Gorkys-I’ve been comparing them, and aside from the fact that Gorky is a year older, i’m just not seeing why they like this guy so much.
They got Tabata in the Nady deal…he’s young, but real toolsy.
And his wife is completely insane.
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?"
President, CEO, and chairman of the Brandon Jones fan club. PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK!
How crazy is that? I felt bad for the kid. A couple days before that happened I actually saw them together in Bradenton. I was like, “Is that Tabata’s mom?” and my buddy says, “No, it’s his wife.” Then I wondered when he’d trade her in for a younger version, but it looks like she did the work for him.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
right but Medlin? Schaefer? Diaz??
DIAZ!!!!!!!!
Dear god, are all SBNation blogs like this?
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?"
President, CEO, and chairman of the Brandon Jones fan club. PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK!
Pretty standard reaction really. They want someone that they’ve heard of, and that’s usually limited to the top 1 or 2 prospects in another organization (if that).
I think we gave them 3 good prospects, but as far as they’re concerned we just threw three random scrubs at them.
True enough. I can’t name any Pirates prospects beyond Alvarez and McCutchens. Still, if we were sending, say, Casey Kotchman over and getting back some minor leaguers, I wouldn’t be pissed about not getting of those two guys. I’d read about the guys we WERE getting, and then decide whether it seemed like a decent deal.
Does anyone have a link to the press conference announcing the deal....
Sorry, I love to see when these types of things are originally announced
by bravesbeast1985 on Jun 4, 2009 12:52 AM EDT reply actions
I liked this trade until I saw this:
http://www.billjamesonline.net/fieldingbible/charts/leaders2-0608.gif
and this:
http://www.billjamesonline.net/fieldingbible/charts/leaders2-08.gif
Mclouth has been the worst CF defensively the last 3 years. If he plays a corner OF decently it will be better, but in CF the guy is a disaster. In 2008 the guy was BY FAR the worst defensive player in the whole MLB with a – 40. And if you look well the chart, Mr. Francouer appears there with a – 17 in right field. And left field? Diaz? Anderson? I don’t even want to know their numbers.
Basically the Braves traded 3 prospects so they could DOWNGRADE to the worst defensive outfield in the league. A lot of balls will drop in front of these guys.
by Alvaro Andres Pizza Varela on Jun 4, 2009 12:57 AM EDT reply actions
are you a mets fan?
go home man. our OF sucks and we added a stud in McLouth.. who gives a shit about UZR. its a tactic used my agents to get their bums more $$$.
"Jason Heyward might be the best offensive prospect i've seen in fifteen years. His game is solid. I would trade any of the current players we have on our 25 man roster for Heyward. He's that good." - NL Scout.
by Scott Coleman on Jun 4, 2009 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
UZR is a tactic used by agents to get their bums more money? That’s one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read. Does Fangraphs have a deal with Boras? Defense is important, believe it or not.
By the way, McLouth is only -1.0 UZR/150 this season.
http://www.whensidslid.com
I always thought McLouth was of the Torii Hunter school of CF: play average defense, but make it look better by making flashy plays out of not-so-flashy situations.
Whatever, I say. An out’s an out.
by FineHamAbounds on Jun 4, 2009 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey, that's a great strategy...
One of my top softball skills. Why make a grab look as easy as it is?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 4, 2009 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions
im just saying, you gotta go by the eye test more than a UZR rating.
"Jason Heyward might be the best offensive prospect i've seen in fifteen years. His game is solid. I would trade any of the current players we have on our 25 man roster for Heyward. He's that good." - NL Scout.
by Scott Coleman on Jun 4, 2009 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions
The eye test is giving players like Derek Jeter, Michael Young, and Torii Hunter Gold Gloves.
Oh and UZR has him around a little over -10 runs for every 150 games.
Gosh
I hate the love-fest for Jeter…he is AT BEST an average defensive player…
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 4, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
It looks like he was doing a model who had a really bad fake tan from behind
It looks like he was bent over a dumpster in Tribeca
You know what, never mind
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Ha
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 4, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
And, you know, he dates hot girls.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 4, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I had the volume off while watching MLB Network last night while listening to some tunes (new Emery album is pretty good, I know everyone was wondering my opinion of it) and they kept showing this play over, and over, and over again where Jeter moves to his throwing side, kneels down to pick up the grounder, jumps in the air and throws a fucking brick to second in an attempt to get the out at second. The 2B completely saved his ass from it going into RF, but was it possible that the talking heads were actually saying that Jeter was making the amazing play?
I had to imagine…yes.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 4, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
And fucking David Wright.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 4, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
You should give a shit about defensive metrics. A – 40 in CF means the guy is going to allow at least 40 more hits THAN AN AVERAGE CF, so being Schafer an above average defender, Mclouth could give posibly 50 more hits in an entire season than Schafer. That’s very significant.
If you look a little bit closer, if a SS lacks range and the ball passes, it will be a single. But if a CF doesn’t reach a fly ball or line drive it could be a double, a triple, or a runner from first scoring a run.
You can look at it from other perspective. Offensively 50 hits is the difference between a batting average of .250 and .333 in 600 AB. That means he should be a hell of a batter (hint: Mclouth isn’t) to make up for all his shortcomings as a defender.
Basically, he erases with the glove everything (and beyond) he does with the bat.
Even Pirates fans acknowledge they thought he was good, but +/- is a reliable metric collected through two scouts present in EACH MLB game and then reviewed in video. They are not making it up.
And it’s funny a lot of teams didn’t give Pat Burrel, Raul Ibañez, Bobby Abreu, Adam Dunn and Manny Ramirez the contracts they wanted because all the metrics found what everybody already knew, that they SUCKED with the leather, so they were a liability even being the great batters they are. All of them ended up signing for a lot less of what they were expecting and here come the Braves and give 3 prospects for a guy EVEN WORSE with the glove and not that good with the bat to begin with instead of signing a free agent. And the Braves #7 pick in the draft was protected, so that’s not an excuse.
Also, signing one of those bats would have improved the OF offensively AT THE BEGGINING OF THE SEASON.
This is a desperation move, unfortunately. And they are going to pay it costly. Wainright, Salty, Andrus are already performing. Feliz and Morton are on the way. It sucks.
by Alvaro Andres Pizza Varela on Jun 4, 2009 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Salty is performing?
Would you rather his sub-.700 OPS be starting at first than Kotchman?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 4, 2009 2:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Wouldn’t reckon anyone expects McLouth to stay at center fortunately. He’ll be an average producing corner when Schafer returns to the bigs. Unlike the other deals we do get him for at least 3 years including this one (I think his club option is like 10.6mil and he’ll never get that from ATL unless his production goes through the roof) so it is a bit different. Granted, he won’t produce like JD or Teix, but he’ll be here for a bit.
Alvaro must be a metzie
I would just go ahead an fess up…there is no shame us less you are playing (rolling over) in September! I think I see the bigger picture on this deal……Banco comes in the late innings and plays D for Mc2 (Louth)…2 is my add on for obvious reasons….untill FYF stock is up and then he is sent to ? for prospects? Logan is called back up, Mc2 moved to Right…..also wanted to say Glav should have got a “Glory” start…I know sentimental! See you in Coopertown!
huh?
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 4, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I want to know who sentimental is. bravestatoo obviously knows him…is it someone we should all be familiar with?
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 4, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
He can have a glory start in a legends game or at spring training.
We don’t have $1 mil to spend on that shit.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 4, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Schaer’s UZR/150 this season is lower than McLouth’s, but who gives a fuck about basic facts like that?
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?"
President, CEO, and chairman of the Brandon Jones fan club. PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK!
+1
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 4, 2009 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Small sample size. I’ve already done the back and forth about how I dislike defensive metrics. Even the guys who were arguing their value to me admitted that sample sizes of less than about 2 seasons are nearly worthless-50 games is just a lot of noise.
That said, watching Schafer, he doesn’t always take the best routes on balls hit near the wall. He hasn’t exactly figured out how to play balls off the wall. But he had actually improved in that area since the start of the season, and he clearly has the range to help cover up GA’s lack of it in left. What we may see from McLouth is that he takes good routes and has solid hands, but his range is more limited so Schafer is ultimately the better option.
I guess you didn’t read my reply that shows advanced defensive metrics to adjust for batted ball data, parks, handedness of the pitcher, etc. and that basic zone rating correlated well with advanced zone ratings, which supports the hypothesis that the noise of an unadjusted zone rating tends to cancel out over larger sample sizes.
Even the guys who were arguing their value to me admitted that sample sizes of less than about 2 seasons are nearly worthless
No one said they were nearly worthless. We said you need larger sample sizes to get a more definitive result.
Seriously man? You’re complaining about Salty…the guy simply isn’t that good. And can we wait for Feliz to actually do something in the majors? He’s got a BB/9 over 5 right now in AAA.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 4, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
How many guys are in AAA at all?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 4, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Like…how many players spend time in AAA? Is that what you’re asking?
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 4, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Oops...
Left out “at 21.”
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 4, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Ha, that makes a little more sense. Point taken, but I’m not going to get bent out of shape about the kid until he actually gets a cup of coffee.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 5, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
wainwright…(is) already performing…
I would hope so…he’s only been in the majors for what, 5, 6 years now?
This is a desperation move, unfortunately. And they are going to pay it costly
Yes, this screams of desperation: trading two minor league pitching prospects (one of whom had virtually no shot at the MLB club, and the other at least 3 years off still) and a CF prospect (who was blocked by 2 other CF-ers) for a guy who can immediately upgrade out team in several areas (speed, leadoff man, power from the OF, etc…) is a desperate move by a desperate team.
/sarcasm
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 4, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...
maybe we would rather have Josh Anderson. You know, since that says he was one of the best CFs in the bigs last year. Ha.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 4, 2009 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I like the deal.
I’ve never had a lot of faith in Morton, and he always seemed like a guy they were trying to showcase for a trade. Locke’s got potential, but he’s sucking it up so far this year while he repeats single-A. Hernandez is the real gem here, but he’s 2-3 years away.
The guys we gave up are a middling starter and 2 guys who are years away from helping the major league club. In return we got a proven CF who might actually give us an RBI and who can actually hit a home run, which is more than I can say for the OF we’ve been running out there.
If by "proven" you mean:
“A guys who seems like he is good because he is been playing CF for 3 years and teams can’t be that incompetent to put a guy every day that bad” logic then he is as proven as Jeff Francouer who has 4 years being the worst right fielder in the game and keeps being put in the lineup every day.
by Alvaro Andres Pizza Varela on Jun 4, 2009 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 4, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
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