Umps and officiating
by Fischerking on Jun 25, 2009 9:03 AM EDT
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Is it just me or have we been getting burned a LOT by the umps the last couple of weeks. There have been three or four bad calls recently that directly affected the outcome of the game. Last night was another example of the umps getting it wrong and costing the Braves. I was so excited to see the pick off throw from Medlen called an out because I couldn't remember the last time one went our way. Then (not surprisingly) they had a MAJOR missed call that ended up costing us TWO runs and momentum.
Am I the only one that thinks we've been getting hosed more than usual lately?
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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Gardner was safe. They missed that one too.
Official MCM Hater!
"I'm a professional towel stomper...I've seen the big Ben Roethlisberger sandwich on TV"
It was close enough to call him out.
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jun 25, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah but if they make the right call then Joe doesnt get thrown out and the yankees might not get going
by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jun 25, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Ehhh, and if they call Cano out, the next batter still gets a hit and both of those runs score anyway.
We can play that game all day.
Official MCM Hater!
"I'm a professional towel stomper...I've seen the big Ben Roethlisberger sandwich on TV"
To be fair, the umps cost the yanks a run last night too.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 25, 2009 9:11 AM EDT reply actions
The bad calls just cancelled each other out.
It was frustrating that when you saw the replay of the Cano play that you can see that neither umpire is looking at where Cano is. The home plate ump was looking down third, and the first base ump was off toward second. Somebody has to see it. I think they would have gotten it right if they had just been looking.
Official MCM Hater!
"I'm a professional towel stomper...I've seen the big Ben Roethlisberger sandwich on TV"
It probably just seems that way because these are the games we see most often. Guys like CB Bucknor and Angel Hernandez have league wide reputations for being crappy, not just in Braves circles. Then again, there could be a conspiracy against Bobby Cox, the all time ejections leader.
"Ohhhh Shit."-Bobby Cox, 3/28/09
I think it is more of a travesty that Joba was not ejected for intentionally hitting Kenshin with the ball.
Official MCM Hater!
"I'm a professional towel stomper...I've seen the big Ben Roethlisberger sandwich on TV"
Ha.
+1
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 25, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
As long as baseball stays in the dark ages and refuses instant replay (yeah, I know they review home runs), nothing changes.
Simple as that.
IMO, a manager should have a “red card,” or something like this, that they can have ONE play reviewed per game (and they do not have to use it during a game).
If that is asking too much of MLB, then that is just sad. Of course this will never happen…..
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jun 25, 2009 9:35 AM EDT reply actions
they won't do that
I am pretty sure that the ones offering the resistance are not the players or the managers, but rather, the Umpires association. They don’t want to be proven wrong. Umps have some serious egos that the league has to stroke.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 25, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
exactly. and it's ridiculous.
It’s the only sport that stands behind the “fact” that the refs are God.
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jun 25, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Freakin Unions.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 25, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
thats the point of baseball
That its a game of inches, a game of discretion, a game of gentlemen. I personally wouldnt want to see the circus of the NFL influence the MLB any more than it has. The MLB still has some class to it, still has some expectation, one of which I believe is the simple idea that the game is run by the umps, plain and simple. The way plunking, small ball, and deadline trades are a part of the game, so is compensating for bad umping.
umpires having an ego
that refuses to allow them to admit they are wrong is not very gentlemanlike.
It is a game of inches and that is the beauty of it. But, when you add a variable like human error (or in some cases, human pride – like when an ump calls a borderline pitch a strike bc the batter argued with him earlier in the game) to those inches it loses its purity.
Baseball is a game that teams play to win. They don’t play the game for the class of the game. They play it to win. I don’t cheer for the Braves to show class during the games (although, I do like the class that our team has), but I cheer for them to win. When an umpire prevents that from happening with a bad (sometimes atrocious) call, that isn’t what the game is about.
The game is about winning, and if the guys who are paid lots of money to judge the game can’t get it right, something needs to be done.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 25, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
This
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 25, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
All part of the same thing. Egos are part of being human, and the ballplayers have them just the same. You’d hear stories of back in the day ball where an ump was afraid to call a strike against a big name person. It goes both ways. The fact that umps have bad days and good days just throw in to the mix with every other variable that gives Baseball its class.
People are often quick to jump on bad calls or other frustrating ump issues, but hey, you can learn to compensate for bad hitting parks, bad pitching parks, weather, etc…, you can learn to compensate for a part of the game that at least has remained mostly integral as well.
are you an ump?
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jun 25, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
only an ump would be backing other umps so adamently
I don’t care if you’re an ump, it would just fit. Hopefully you aren’t an ump that makes shitty calls.
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jun 25, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
you can learn to compensate for bad hitting parks, bad pitching parks, weather, etc…, you can learn to compensate for a part of the game that at least has remained mostly integral as well.
False. If the weather is windy, I can keep the ball low so the wind doesnt kill the hit. If there is a bad pitching park, as a pitcher, I can try to induce ground-balls. Those are things that I can adjust to.
An ump blowing an obvious call is not like that. I cannot adjust to a bad call – unless it is consistently a bad call (2 inches off the plate, etc) at which point the ump is not bad. If he is consistent in calling balls and strikes, sure. Blowing a call (like at 1B last night) can not be compensated for.
You are confusing adjusting and compensating with overcoming.
Good teams can overcome bad calls, but they cannot compensate for them.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 25, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
When Angel Hernandez is officiating, pitchers are aware of his propensity to hand out sketchy balks, and will focus on their release a bit more. That’s just one example of an umpire that has repeatedly been called out and ways players can compensate, or overcome, that aspect of the game.
The same way you knew you would be HBP if your pitcher plunked a few, back when baseball had even more dignity, you knew a bad ump call would come back to you some way. I think the point made above somewhere, about how the umps chose to compensate for the bad call at an inopportune time, was the most relevant.
My opinion remains – baseball is a sport of class, and the integrity given to the officiating crew is a great indication of this.
i get the consistant umpire thing
but i don’t recall too many umpires consistently calling a dude out at 1b on a pickoff where the runner was clearly safe.
Nor do I recall an umpire consistently not calling a runner in the basepath safe.
balls and strikes are one thing that a player can adjust to. bad calls in the field are not.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 25, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually
Umpires consistently do have a problem calling the runner-in-the-basepath thing. Or maybe they are just hesitant to call it. But it happens more often than it is called.
Official MCM Hater!
"I'm a professional towel stomper...I've seen the big Ben Roethlisberger sandwich on TV"
So if that is the case
how do you adapt to that and compensate for it as a player?
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 25, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think you can compensate for it
You just throw it into his back and hope they see it. And then instead of whining like a little girl, pick up the ball and throw it home to get the runner.
That’s how you overcome it, but I don’t know about compensating.
Official MCM Hater!
"I'm a professional towel stomper...I've seen the big Ben Roethlisberger sandwich on TV"
but why even have the rule if they never call it (yes, they call it with other teams, but not the Braves)
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jun 25, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
So now it's a conspiracy?
Whatever guys. This is getting silly. Those guys are doing the best they can. It’s ridiculous to complain about officiating when we can’t even execute a routine ground out to 1st. The human element is part of the game. Only losers complain about officiating.
Official MCM Hater!
"I'm a professional towel stomper...I've seen the big Ben Roethlisberger sandwich on TV"
tell that to Chipper
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jun 25, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Wonder how that is working out for him.....
Official MCM Hater!
"I'm a professional towel stomper...I've seen the big Ben Roethlisberger sandwich on TV"
right
I don’t care how juvenile it sounds, switch the teams on this play……you would have an ump pointing furiously at the base line.
truthe, it’s what’s for dinner.
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jun 25, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
OK
Official MCM Hater!
"I'm a professional towel stomper...I've seen the big Ben Roethlisberger sandwich on TV"
mkay?
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jun 25, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
1. If the best they can do is what they’re currently doing, they need help in the form of instant replay, a Pitch f/x strike zone, and/or other forms of technology for tags/touching bases.
2. The only human element that should be part of the game is the players. Umpires exist to fairly arbitrate a game, not to play a hand in the outcome. That’s the players’ job. Anything that eliminates their influence on the game’s outcome without dramatically altering the game should be welcomed.
thank you
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jun 25, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
there are frequent plays that seemingly go the “other way” than the ump’s call after replay and things like that, whether safe or out, ball or strike.
It is upsetting to see calls clearly made wrong, yet it happens. It has happened since the beginning of baseball and hopefully will continue to happen. It is a part of the game.
I personally feel that this aspect of the game is a big part of how baseball has remained classy and dignified among the other freakshows of professional sports.
How is it classy or dignified for players and managers to argue with umpires every game about the outcome of a play? How is it classy or dignified for umpires to be abused at stadiums, on sports talk radio, and online for missing calls, calling their integrity into question?
You can’t just dismiss the concerns of those wanting more accurate umpiring with strawmen about a dead sports league or by saying it’s part of the game. Drug use was part of the game for decades. Spit balling was part of the game for half its existence. Segregation was part of the game for the same amount of time. Times change. When baseball was invented the technology to umpire accurately didn’t exist. It’s available in many areas now and there’s no good reason not to start using it.
Wait...so blown calls are classy and dignified?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 25, 2009 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
wow. definitely an ump.
that is one warped point of view.
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jun 26, 2009 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions
wow
i apologize for hitting such a nerve with all yall.
I guess I’m of the older generation despite my age. I still long for complete games, team loyalty, and all the other parts of “old school” baseball. I didnt realize that the upcomers wanted such change. The juiced ball, LOOGYs, and QSs just kill me.
And, yes, all the aforementioned aspects of umping give more credence to how I view them as classy. Except segregation, thats ridiculous, and drug use, there’s always been and always will be drugs in sports.
Look
for the most part, I respect the umps and their calls.
However, it’s no longer 1979, and an ump has been known to blow a huge call, or two. My only suggetion is that a manager should be allowed to call for ONE instant replay a game. It would only better the sport. If anyone doesn’t see that, they’re in denial.
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jun 26, 2009 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I think that even with the instant replay
You are just setting yourself up to be disappointed and frustrated a lot.
I just realize that, just like the batters are going to fail 70% of the time (more often for most), the umpires/officials are going to make mistakes. It’s part of the game. But there are no overall agendas in officiating, no matter how bad the conspiracy theorists want to make one up
Official MCM Hater!
"I'm a professional towel stomper...I've seen the big Ben Roethlisberger sandwich on TV"
Well put
good comparison with the batting avgs.
You know, I dont think its necessarily a bad idea with the “red flag” idea. But we both know it doesnt stop there, and having some type of electronic base tagging system??!?!? Are you kidding me? That’s actually funny, laughing funny.
It doesn't stop there?
Why not? It works in college. It works in the NFL. If the technology is available, why would you not want to get every call you possibly can RIGHT? Nobody’s asking to replace the umpires, but if they can’t do their jobs properly and enforce the rules, what’s the point?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 26, 2009 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
But it doesn't work
It impairs the officials’ ability to make split-second decisions and causes them to rule “so that replay can fix it” instead of rule based on their gut instinct and head knowledge. These guys are running scared that they are going to be proven wrong instead of just working the game like they have been taught and trained for however many years they have been officiating.
OK, it does seem to “work” sometimes in that you may see that the ball actually hit a millimeter above the line, or that the receivers toe actually was two blades of grass inside the line, but the overall effect on the psyche and the reactions of the officials is degrading their performance as a whole. And it is going to continue to get worse the more they have to second guess themselves.
Official MCM Hater!
"I'm a professional towel stomper...I've seen the big Ben Roethlisberger sandwich on TV"
And you make these observations based on what, precisely?
If you’re a good official, you’re going to make the call as you see it (and by God I hope it’s the right one.) If you’re afraid of getting it wrong, you should find a new job. Further, the rules are not based on “gut instinct.” Your gut does not determine whether a runner is inside the basepath; the line which denotes it does. Your gut does not determine whether a player is out or safe at a base; the question of whether the ball or the runner arrived first (or whether the runner avoided the tag) does. If all we’re going on is “gut instincts,” why have rules at all? Why have umpire training? Just let them run out there and make the calls that feel right.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 26, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Understood. You want to move baseball towards a more technological and exact science, similar to how the other professional leagues attempt.
The argument is that this takes away from the classiness baseball has. And essentially, they are running out there making the calls that feel right. And that’s awesome.
....or scary.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 26, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess I should have read your signature before I started this, huh?
Official MCM Hater!
"I'm a professional towel stomper...I've seen the big Ben Roethlisberger sandwich on TV"
Actually, what I meant by "gut instinct"
is that these guys are trained so well and have spent so much time studying and watching film that it becomes “second nature” and they don’t have to think. Not that they make it up as they go along.
All replay does is make these guys second guess themselves. And maybe that doesn’t matter when you are worried about your boss critiquing your TPS reports and have all day to make sure it’s right, but when you have to make a split second call and don’t have time to think, you want to have that good training so that it becomes “second nature.” And replay takes that away.
Official MCM Hater!
"I'm a professional towel stomper...I've seen the big Ben Roethlisberger sandwich on TV"
And, in this analogy...
The person who can’t manage to do a good job and please their boss will lose said job. They’ll eventually be called on to perform in a clutch situation, and if they fail, they’ll also be out of it. But apparently, you find failure “charming” and “gentlemanly.”
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 26, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh good lord
I give.
Go Braves.
Official MCM Hater!
"I'm a professional towel stomper...I've seen the big Ben Roethlisberger sandwich on TV"
Cap, you know I'm not a pro-union guy.
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jun 25, 2009 12:02 PM EDT reply actions
From now on, you're my cleaning lady.
And you’re banned from Dimpus Burger!
by FineHamAbounds on Jun 25, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll take six Schlitz's...
…for Jeff Francoeur.
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jun 25, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
-It’s powdered sugar.
-Yeah. The lice hate it.
-It’s delicious.
-…Uh, good.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
thanks for putting that scene in my head
now, all i can see is a naked farva
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 25, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
why dont we have a fan strike until the MLB gives us what we want
by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jun 25, 2009 12:14 PM EDT reply actions
If by “striking,” you mean “selling out,” then sure.
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jun 25, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
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