Why is Jordan Schafer exempt from all the criticism?
by Scott Coleman on Jun 1, 2009 7:50 PM EDT
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PrintAs all the trade talk starts to come up, the most common names by far are guys who could replace Garrett Anderson or FYF in the OF. It seems like a new sports writer, such as Keith Law, has a new joke about Frenchy every day. Its often painful to watch the guy hit. And as for Garrett Anderson, he has really started hitting in the past few games, but his defense remains a liability (and it REALLY pisses me off when he doesn't even try to get the runner at home). However, as the season goes on and he continues to get ABs, i think GA and the occasional start from Diaz will be enough. But this brings me to why im posting this: Jordan Schafer.
I know the kid is still really young. And i know he was our top prospect for a long time. He can play some great defense and can fly around the bases (well, if he even gets on the bases). But why is he exempt from going down to AAA or being replaced for a season or two via trade until hes ready?
These are his stats:
.204 avg .313 obp .287 slg 2 HRs 8 2Bs 27BB/63K 2/3 SB
Thats horrible. Not to mention his .313 obp is still spiked from the early walks he had. He had 2 HRs in the first three games, and he hasnt even come close to hitting another since then. Jordan is 2nd in the majors for most strikeouts. His .204 avg is the 2nd lowest by an OF with 120+ ABs (Chris Young of Arizona is hitting around .185). For a kid who was supposed to be the next Grady Sizemore, he hasn't started off very well.
Check out this stat:
From April 5th to 29th: 16BB/23K
From May 1st to 31st: 11BB/40K
Pretty bad. When he was striking out a lot in April, it was ok since he was walking and getting a few hits. But in may...well, different story.
Why not send the kid down to AAA for a while like Florida did with Maybin and Colorado is about to do with Fowler? It could save him. Schafer obviously isn't learning much at the ML level and could really benefit from some rest and a chance to re-work his swing. The kid is loaded with potential, and it would be a real shame to watch him flush it all down the toilet (sound familiar to another guy we have in RF this year?)
We could call up Gregor Blanco for a while to take over CF. Hes been hitting better at AAA as of late. And as long as he had a higher average and obp than Schafer's emberassing numbers, i'd take it. Not to mention he would hit leadoff, thus moving KJ and his streaky bat down to the 6 hole where he could do some damage getting guys in. Its a win-win situation.
I would LOVE for Jordan to become an all-star one day and patrol our CF for 10 years, but right now, he isn't the answer. Our lineup needs everyone to be on the top of their game to score runs, and Schafer usually isn't on his. The Muts and Phillies have been winning a lot of their games lately, and if we wanna contend with them for 162 games, i really dont think Jordan is the right CF for the job.
What do you guys think about Schafer and the CF job? Should we send him down? Should we try to add a CF like Mike Cameron or Rick Ankiel via trade? Or should we stick with him and his .204 avg? Am i alone in thinking its unfair that he usually avoids all the criticism from writers and bloggers, or do you guys notice this too? Let me know what you think!
GO BRAVES.
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Before the season
The guy is never going to hit for an exceptionally high average because of the strikeouts but if you thought that he was just going to come in and start hitting well before the season, then you were fooling yourself. I happen to think that we just need to stick with him and let him adjust to the competition up here because in the long run it will help. And realistically, I think we’d all rather replace Francoeur since he seems hopeless. Schafer plays a great centerfield, and we’re just going to have to suffer while he adjusts to the majors.
i wasnt expecting him to put up great numbers… but i also wasnt expecting a .204 average with 63 strikeouts.
"Jason Heyward might be the best offensive prospect i've seen in fifteen years. His game is solid. I would trade any of the current players we have on our 25 man roster for Heyward. He's that good." - NL Scout.
by Scott Coleman on Jun 1, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree that Schafer shold be demoted to AAA. Like you said, he needs a rest and needs to work things out in a less competitive atmosphere. I think he’s avoiding the criticism because we have 2 veteran corner outfielders who are performing as poorly as he is. Schafer is a rookie and gets a break. He won’t get a break if he performs this way all season and into next.
I wouldn’t trade for either of the outfielders you mention, but bring up Blanco to hopefully bat in the leadoff spot.
"Concepcion Rodriguez is still one of my favorite players and has an outside shot to be the guy that mans left field for us in a few years." yondaime4
Wait, since when is Schafer supposed to be the next Grady Sizemore (IE: elite top 5 player in baseball)
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?"
President, CEO, and chairman of the Brandon Jones fan club. PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK!
http://www.whensidslid.com/?cat=3
click the 2nd story.
"Jason Heyward might be the best offensive prospect i've seen in fifteen years. His game is solid. I would trade any of the current players we have on our 25 man roster for Heyward. He's that good." - NL Scout.
by Scott Coleman on Jun 1, 2009 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
keith law also said Schafer reminded him of Seizmore about 18 months ago (before the HGH suspension). however, law did say after seeing Jordan in AA last season, he changed his mind considerably.
"Jason Heyward might be the best offensive prospect i've seen in fifteen years. His game is solid. I would trade any of the current players we have on our 25 man roster for Heyward. He's that good." - NL Scout.
by Scott Coleman on Jun 1, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
its not like i wrote the original article comparing the two guys
im just saying its been written before.
"Jason Heyward might be the best offensive prospect i've seen in fifteen years. His game is solid. I would trade any of the current players we have on our 25 man roster for Heyward. He's that good." - NL Scout.
by Scott Coleman on Jun 1, 2009 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
…by another Braves blog
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?"
President, CEO, and chairman of the Brandon Jones fan club. PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK!
I've seen that comparison other places, too.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 2, 2009 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions
That comparison has been hyped for awhile...
I’ve seen other team’s fans call him the Brave’s Sizemore quite a few times.
The first comparison I heard about Schafer was to JD Drew.
Guy #1: Damn, these oysters are going to make us horny as hell...
Girl #2: Oh yeah, I forgot oysters are hermaphrodites.
by bwellnjonesco on Jun 2, 2009 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions
You guys are missing something. The original Fangraphs article compared him to Sizemore…didn’t say he’s the NEXT Sizemore
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?"
President, CEO, and chairman of the Brandon Jones fan club. PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK!
Yeah i remember somethin about some scouts or somethin another was comparin him to Sizemore then people were like no way he becomes that good except some dillusioned Braves fans. I put my expectations of him ALOT lower. I compared him to a Rowand. Except Schafer is a righty and he plays better defense but the bat is pretty similar and Rowand is a real good glove in CF just not as good as Schafer.
braves#1
actually schafer is a lefty
but i get your point.
"Jason Heyward might be the best offensive prospect i've seen in fifteen years. His game is solid. I would trade any of the current players we have on our 25 man roster for Heyward. He's that good." - NL Scout.
by Scott Coleman on Jun 1, 2009 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
fail
lol damn. Yeah i know what Schafer is, i was talkin about Rowand and somehow got the righty thing with Schafer instead of Rowand, my bad. I hate maken bonehead mistakes like that cause even though it was one little error it pretty much makes all what i said look stupid for maken a stupid mistake, oh well.
braves#1
Sizemore is not a top 5 player in baseball
Hanley, A-Rod, Pujols, Miggy, Wright,
I don’t think he would make my top ten. But I get what ur saying, Schafers expectations were never that high.
SubParr
I think some people (myself included), thought he could be a Sizemore-lite, aka about 75% of Sizemore, 90% if he could reach his maximum potential. That might be where the distinction comes in.
by soup du jour on Jun 1, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
it
seems like he’s gotten plenty of criticism, it’s just a matter of finding a better replacement
"When life gives you lemons, just say 'F*ck the lemons,' and bail."
by Bravely going forward on Jun 1, 2009 8:53 PM EDT reply actions
a lot like frenchy…
"When life gives you lemons, just say 'F*ck the lemons,' and bail."
by Bravely going forward on Jun 1, 2009 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
In short answer
Mostly because he’s a rookie, and rookies are expected to take their lumps and make their mistakes. It’s how they rebound from it that shows a better indication of whom they are.
Also, because normal protocol can’t really occur here, because Schafer can’t be benched because there is nobody on the bench who can play CF close to adequately as he can, and the only one in the minors that could really isn’t playing at a level that would warrant deflating Schafer’s confidence.
It also helps him avoid more criticism that the two corner OFs have been playing pretty poorly for most of the season, as mentioned several times above.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Let's hope to God you're right
The kid can’t hit the broad side of a barn.
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jun 1, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
If Schafer’s ego is so fragile that he can’t handle being sent to AAA without his confidence being shaken, then, frankly, I doubt that setting a single season strikeout record is going to be great for him either …
Funny thing
Much like a corporation, I bet a lot of issues could be resolved by simple face-to-face communication.
I can’t say whether or not it’s actually happened, but I’m really curious if Bobby/Chino/Gene/Wren have “called Jordan into the principle’s office,” and actually spoke with him, and tried to rationally explain why it might not be a bad idea to send him to AAA to work on some stuff. If Jordan is the reformed egomaniac he supposedly is after the HGH scandal, then he would’ve take it with no complaint, and we’d be seeing if Blanco would be more suitable for the time being. Or if he raised a tantrum and bitched about his confidence being shaken, then there’s a bigger underlying problem in the wings.
I want to believe that the above scenario probably hasn’t ever occurred. We’re hearing tons through the media that Schafer will be left on the ML roster to “work things out at the ML level” despite the fact that in the process, he’s generating more outs than a paraplegic with a bat roped around his stumps, and like most upper-management who lack inter-personal communication skills, are leaving Schafer to “get the message” through those comments.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
His defense offsets the offensive crappiness. You can afford to carry one guy like that, just not an entire outfield (minus the defense in the case of the corner OFs). And he’s only been in the league a few months, he’ll get better. Relax. CF is the least of our problems.
If Dunn walks 30 fewer times, he'll drive in 15 more runs. This is thanks to the scientifically proven formula: RBI = (this is nonsense) (I made it all up).
Here's a stat: Wins as manager: Dusty Baker, 1,162; Bill James, 0.
Schafer
No player with his #‘s should be a every day player on any MLB team, even if he’s a rookie.
This kid is costing us more runs than he is saving us.
Send him down until he becomes a MLB type hitter.
I for one has seen enough of what he has to offer at the plate,
If any of us did our jobs just half right, how long would we have a job? Not long, I’m new, is not going to cut it!
Don’t you think it would be more prudent for the Braves to find a replacement for Francine and his .271 OBP and mediocre defense before we place our stranglehold on a rookie who is one behind the team leader in walks?
I don’t think Jordan is “exempt”, just that we have more pressing needs right now.
"If I had a little humility, I would be perfect" - Ted Turner
Mediocre defense?
His arm’s presence prevents teams from even thinking about taking extra bases. I call that above average defense.
by BravesRaleigh on Jun 2, 2009 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions
His right arm is his only asset...
His range is mediocre, he takes terrible routes, and often bobbles the ball when he gets it. His arm has saved the Braves runs, but is that enough to make up for the rest of him?
"If I had a little humility, I would be perfect" - Ted Turner
I'm not saying it is...
And I don’t think that Jordan is getting a pass so much as he’s getting overlooked due to Francoeur’s struggles.
I don’t like the idea of having to watch Blanco, but I like the idea of Schafer getting better. In fact, I hate the idea of having to watch Gregor…
I’m not vehemently against Schafer spending some time in AAA…I wouldn’t like it, but I probably wouldn’t boycott the games or anything like that.
"If I had a little humility, I would be perfect" - Ted Turner
Dumb...
When Jordan Schafer is getting paid 3.375 Million Dollars then he will be held to the same standards as Francoeur. Jordan is a rookie and is learning on the job. He needs time to develop, and seeing as our best backup option is Gregor effing Blanco, he’ll get all the chances in the world.
From the opening of the latest Braves.com article:
Two months into the season, the Braves are still waiting for the arrival of pitching prospect Tommy Hanson and the solution to their outfield woes, which seemingly grow with every Jordan Schafer strikeout.
And again, that’s the TEAM website.
Anyone else think this?
I’m thinking Brian Anderson…
Lack of internal options…
Hot young prospect supposed to make noise…
Stellar with the glove (2006 UZR/150 of 7.3, Fielding Runs Above Average of 5.7)…
Abysmal with the bat (2006 line of .225/.290/.359, and that’s with a second-half boost)…
Quickly demoted next season for “wily” (i.e., sucky) veteran (i.e., Darin Erstad)…
Relegated to riding the bench/minors the next 3 seasons, quickly losing prospect luster…
Now just another guy…
Now I remember White Sox management steadfastly insisting that having Anderson patrol center benefited their club; despite contributing zero with the bat, his glovework made up for it. But one wonders how much that lost year of development in the minors may have helped him improve his hitting. I’m not saying this will happen to Logan, but it’s clear he’s struggling and could benefit from some time in the minors. He’s not hitting for average or power, he’s striking out way too much, and he’s not even getting on base anymore. Sure he’s good with the glove (though Fangraphs disagrees), but ( too am wondering if swapping him out for Gregor Blanco isn’t a win-win situation, as it may give Schafer a chance to improve his batting skills while giving the Braves a replacement level CF for now (which would be better than what Schafer’s giving us).
His career UZR/150 in center is 0.2
His career high OPS, at any level, was .753
His career LOW K rate is 23.5%
His career high walk rate is 11.5%
What exactly about that screams AWESOME REPLACEMENT?
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?"
President, CEO, and chairman of the Brandon Jones fan club. PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK!
Que?
If you’re referring to Brian Anderson, I in no way stated I wanted to acquire him to man center. My comparison was a cautionary tale about what might happen to Jordan Schafer, who seems to be in a similar situation, in which he looks simply unready to perform at the big league level, yet the club keeps running him out there.
If you’re referring to Gregor Blanco, it clearly screams REPLACEMENT LEVEL REPLACEMENT. But to put it bluntly, what Schafer is right now is a no-hit, decent-eye, decent-fielding CF. You’re telling me Gregor Blanco couldn’t replicate that performance? Blanco is what he is, but Schafer could be so much more. It’s entirely probable that without additional minor league seasoning, Schafer could become another Brian Anderson (or shudder Jeff Francoeur), where he never realizes his potential because he was forced into Big League action.
I assumed that by mentioning Anderson, you were referring to him as a possible replacement…seemed a little too asinine to be correct though.
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?"
President, CEO, and chairman of the Brandon Jones fan club. PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK!
Interesting comparison, but trust me, I got to see Anderson a lot in the minors and I’ve gotten to see Schafer a good bit too, there is no comparison. Schafer is a far superior player. And, he’s about three years younger than Anderson was when he made his debut.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
Schafer should be demoted. He is not ready.
I think this is an organization’s weakness. Our hitters are free swingers who don’t value pitch recognition (Francouer anyone?), OBP (Francouer anyone?), swinging to the opposite field (Francouer anyone?) and strike out too many times (Francouer anyone?). Even Yunel is one of the batters whose % of swings to the first pitch is very high.
I think that over agressiveness philosophy is being taught in the minors by the instructors and is ruining our prospects. And it’s not a coincidence that Pendleton wasn’t a patient man himself, the guy is an horrible batting coach.
I remember reading an article about Heyward, and Braves instructors wanted him to be more agressive. It’s a miracle they haven’t ruined him already. I hope they don’t.
by Alvaro Andres Pizza Varela on Jun 2, 2009 12:10 PM EDT reply actions
I have said before that Schafer needs to be demoted.
Then instead of calling up Blanco we should trade for a CF like Ankiel or Cameron who could bolster our Offense AND hit in the middle of the lineup. So what that they are a rental the plan is for Schafer to go down for some fine tuning and maybe get a September call up and get his feet wet some more and come back next year better.
well it doesnt matter now. they called up Blanco and sent down Schafer
http://www.ajc.com/braves/content/sports/braves/stories/2009/06/02/braves_jordan_schafer.html
by drumzalicious on Jun 2, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
ill accept my pulitzer any time...
ha, i must be psychic or something.
"Jason Heyward might be the best offensive prospect i've seen in fifteen years. His game is solid. I would trade any of the current players we have on our 25 man roster for Heyward. He's that good." - NL Scout.
by Scott Coleman on Jun 2, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Umm...weren't you wrong?
Wouldn’t a demotion imply that he’s not exempt from criticism at all?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 2, 2009 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
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