Rotation questions

by Scott Coleman on May 7, 2009 6:34 PM EDT

So a month has passed in the 09 season so far. We all know the offense is possibly the most inconsistent in the NL. We all know the bullpen is stacked once we get to the 7th inning with Bennett, Moylan (His 8ERA is only from the Philly appearances) Soriano and Gonzo. But the rotation has been really odd so far. Derek Lowe is the true ace, which we payed him $60 million to be. Vazquez is a K machine and is solid until his one bad inning (and he can still wiggle his way out most of the time). Jurrjens is probably the most underrated pitcher in baseball, if not the NL (hell, even Linda Cohn from ESPN mis-pronounced his name about 3 times today). He's 3-2 with a 2.02 ERA. Thats crazy for a 23 year old. But that leads me to why i wrote this: How many more starts do we give JoJo and KK before we make some changes?

My thoughts:

Kawakami should get atleast 4 more starts before we do anything. The guy has good stuff, he just has trouble locating it. We are also paying him 8 million so we really need to give him a few more starts before we send him to the 'pen. His last start was really, really ugly, but his numbers weren't bad at all. Nothing says fun like sending a $8+ million a year man to the bullpen *cough new york mutts and oliver perez* cough =]

But now onto Jojo. He has had a great start, a decent start and a below average start. He was dealing in Cincy before his pattented "8 runs in one inning after throwing 5 scoreless" came into play. Im willing to give the kid tomorrows start and one more after that, but if he can't get a win by then, he should be sent down.

But that brings up the question: Who do we call up first? Obviously Tommy Hanson is the big time prospect, but lets compare his and Kris Medlen's stats in AAA:

Hanson: 6 starts 1-3 1.65 ERA 32.2IP 48K/12BB

Medlen: 6 starts 4-0 1.17 ERA 30.2IP 38K/7BB

Those are some rediculous and rediculously close numbers. There isn't a better 1-2 punch in all of the minor leagues. Medlen is about 13 months older than Hanson too. In my opinion, we call up Hanson first, but Medlen should be called up the very next second we need another starter (due to an injury or another pitcher sucking).

But what do you guys think? Should we call up Medlen too to be a reliever? Or should we start Campillo or try out James Parr or Charlie Morton again before we pitch one of our young guns? Its my first post so try not to be too rough!

GO BRAVES.

This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.

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Barring an injury Medlen and Hanson won’t make the majors before July. If a starter goes down and needs to go to the DL for more then two weeks we might see one of them. Short term injuries will be plugged with Parr, Morton, Campillio, Carlyle, Bennett, and Reyes. I think the most likely way we will see either in atlanta is if we trade pitching (jojo and/or morton and/or parr, + positional player) for bats. Medlen has been awesome, and should come up as a starter. There is no way they waste him as a 6th or 7th inning.

On another tangent, has Glavine given up yet?

hindsight is 20-13 just like Ted William actual vision- ken tremendous

by heapofoatmeal on May 7, 2009 7:02 PM EDT reply actions

sadly

i kinda hope he’s done. i love tommy g, but his time has come and passed. hes 43 now, and for a team with a good young nucleus with Esco, Frenchy, McCann, Schafer, Jurrjens and even KJ, along with our young stud prospects like Heyward, Hanson and Freeman, we need to move on.

Good evening San Diego, Im Ron Bergundy. Tits McGee is off tonight.

by Scott Coleman on May 7, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Medlen is doing GREAT as a starter

But right now there is simply no room for him, yet he is too good to just sit in AAA. My vote would be to call them both up at the same time, and to put Hanson in the 5 spot and Medlen in the bullpen right off the bat. Then, if a starter goes down or under performs, Medlen can be used to spot start until his time comes to pitch full time in the rotation.

60% of the time, it works every time

by ATLandUNC on May 7, 2009 9:33 PM EDT reply actions

I guess its just rediculous...

oops, I mean ridiculous…

...catsports...

by bwellnjonesco on May 7, 2009 9:43 PM EDT reply actions

MEDLEN IS KICKING ASS

4-0, 1.17 ERA, 30.2 IP, 17 H, 4 R, 4 ER, 38 K, 7 BB, 0.79 WHIP

GET THIS BOY TO TURNER FIELD

Oh, Bobby.

by sdp on May 7, 2009 10:31 PM EDT reply actions

I would call up Morton first. he already has the experience and has pitched decently (unless he was already called up and I missed that…). My next call up would be Medlen – simply to keep Hanson away from arbitration.

But, before I called anyone up, I would look to Campillo and Glavine

Before I looked to those two, I would give KK until the AS break before making a decision on demoting him. I would also like to see JJ in 4-5 more games. If he is as inconsistent as ever, send him back down. If he has several good starts and a few average ones, keep him.

Penis

by justincredubil02 on May 7, 2009 10:43 PM EDT reply actions

And by JJ you mean JoJo, right? Not Jair Jurrjens, the commonly referred to as JJ?

by soup du jour on May 7, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions

of course

my bad on the confusion

Penis

by justincredubil02 on May 7, 2009 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions

Glavine and Campillo

Lack and Luster

I’m just ready to get a head start on the future and get these young guys rollin. I’m sick of the Braves sticking with the safe, old, mediocre bet. Jo Jo has been ok, but nothing special, and KK is toiling his ERA and our wins away. I just want to see some youth get their chance and get ready for this 2010 world series.

60% of the time, it works every time

by ATLandUNC on May 7, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions

Campy and JoJo definitely have something to offer to this club....possibly (still) Glavine too...

Not sure what all that was aboot. Point is, we’re stacked and don’t need to be making any more sketchy moves…

"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi

by Chief Noc-A-Homa on May 8, 2009 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions

what about..

if we call up Hanson to be a starter, and put Medlen in a bullpen/spot start role. it would be similar to what David Price did with the Rays last year.

Good evening San Diego, Im Ron Bergundy. Tits McGee is off tonight.

by Scott Coleman on May 8, 2009 12:34 AM EDT reply actions

Didn’t know till just now, but I just looked it up on fangraphs. Guess which players are #1 and #2 in strikeouts in the ALL OF AAA baseball?

Tommy Hanson – 48 Ks
Kris Medlen – 38 Ks

Not gonna lie, that is incredible that we have both top guys. The Braves just have to make room for these two, and fast. Every K and every dominant inning in AAA is a wasted inning that could be helping the big club.

Side note: Charlie Morton is #8 with 30 Ks

60% of the time, it works every time

by ATLandUNC on May 8, 2009 2:34 AM EDT reply actions

AAA =/= MLB

Let’s take it easy on the bring them up now, at any cost, for whatever reason argument. Just b/c they are pitching lights out at AAA doesn’t mean they are ready to dominate at the MLB level yet, not to mention handle the rigors of starting every 5th day in the show.

Let’s take JoJo for an example — he dominates AAA, and then when we bring him up, we get 1 good start followed by about 4 or more bad ones. Nobody knows what the problem is — he’s got good stuff, it just hasn’t clicked yet. Same thing for Morton — great stuff, can’t put it together yet.

I’m sure Medlen and Hanson have better stuff than Morton / Jo-Jo — no debates there. But lets be careful not to assume they’ll come up and finish 1-2 in the Cy Young just because they’ve had a good April at Gwinnet.

by fphjr01 on May 8, 2009 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions

We're not 7-19. We're in a pretty close race right now. No need to sound any alarms...

And I think our guys are ready to play now.

"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi

by Chief Noc-A-Homa on May 8, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions

KK is really pissing me off…

by Smoltz's Beard on May 8, 2009 9:48 AM EDT reply actions

Penis

by justincredubil02 on May 8, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions

+1

he looked solid in spring training. Maybe he’s one of those guys that swings right back. but he definitely needs another W

"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi

by Chief Noc-A-Homa on May 8, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions

My take on the rotation

First, I think mvhsbball has done a nice job laying out the premise of the thread with regard to the Braves’ 2009 rotation.

We all know the rotation has been a problem for several years, and we also know Frank Wren made progress with the problem during the recent offseason.

Lowe and Jurrjens have been really good so far. Vazquez and Kawakami haven’t been as effective as Lowe and Jurrjens, but they have pitched better than their 2008 Braves counterparts.

What now? There are two perspectives to consider. We can discuss this in terms of the way these pitchers have pitched during the last five weeks, but I think it’s smarter to look at it in terms of the club’s window of control over their starters.

Lowe….just signed a four year contract
Jurrjens….under Braves’ control for at least four more years
Vazquez….under club’s control through 2010
Kawakami….just signed a three-year contract
Hudson….club option for 2010
Hanson….under club’s control for at least five more years
Reyes….under club’s control for at least four more years
Morton….under club’s control for at least four more years
Redmond….under club’s control for at least five more years

It now seems pretty clear that Lowe, Jurrjens, and Hanson are going to be the core of this rotation for a long time, I expect Hanson and Jurrjens to become NL stars. Vazquez, Reyes, and Hudson should fill the other roles for the remainder of 2009. We know Vazquez will be back in 2010. The story with Hudson remains to be seen, but he’s another interesting possibility as long as his rehab continues to go well.

Tommy Glavine has been throwing off a mound, but I just can’t see how he can help this team….or why they would want him in their rotation over Hanson.

I have saved my final comment for Kawakami. I have already seen enough of Kawakami to form two conclusions…(1) His stuff is pretty good, and (2) he isn’t physically sound. Something is wrong. I suspect his shoulder pain is a bigger problem than anyone is saying. He only pitched 117 innings in Japan last season, and I will be surprised if he approaches that number this year. This guy knows how to pitch, but that three-year contract will be an albatross if he isn’t physically-sound.

by Messenger on May 8, 2009 12:25 PM EDT reply actions

Green

Thanks for breaking it down like that, much easier to visualize. Campillo is gone after this year too.

Who the hell is Jeff Lyman? I was cheking out Cot’s Contracts and I’ve never heard of him.

If Dunn walks 30 fewer times, he'll drive in 15 more runs. This is thanks to the scientifically proven formula: RBI = (this is nonsense) (I made it all up).

Here's a stat: Wins as manager: Dusty Baker, 1,162; Bill James, 0.

by TradeAndruw on May 8, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions

He’s a reliever for Mississippi. He was a high round draft pick (2nd I think) in 05 who’s struggled some in the low minors, but he seems to have found his spot out in the bullpen. He’s got a lot of talent, but we’ll see. Personally, I love the guy.

"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on May 9, 2009 2:59 AM EDT up reply actions

well said

by Smoltz's Beard on May 8, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions

The Braves would be stupid to put Medlen in the pen. If they need another bullpen arm they have Mariano Gomez, Juan Perez, and Jerome Gamble in the Minors putting up solid numbers.

I honestly wouldnt mind seeing Hanson and Medlen replace KK and Reyes. Although if Reyes keeps doing good we could see a trade of Vazquez or KK and them keep Reyes simply because of cost and he is the only lefty we have pitching in our rotation

by drumzalicious on May 8, 2009 12:49 PM EDT reply actions

Interesting point

I think it’s going to be interesting to see how they utilize Medlen. He could help them in the rotation or the pen, but their need in the pen seems to be greater. This is the last year on Gonzalez’s and Soriano’s Atlanta contracts. If the club can’t re-sign either, they are going to need Medlen in their pen.

OTOH, I think Medlen is proving at Gwinnet this year that he is a legitimate starter prospect. Ultimately, his value to the club is greater as a starter if he is successful.

Your other point is also interesting. The Braves have developed a list of other promising prospects for the pen….Mariano Gomez, Luis Valdez, Cory Gearrin. If Craig Kimbrel ever learns to throw strikes, he could be another.

by Messenger on May 9, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions

Is anyone seeing this crap? Jo Jo IS NOT CUTTING IT. If the Braves want to start winning now, Hanson needs to be called up. He’s been ready for a while now.

60% of the time, it works every time

by ATLandUNC on May 8, 2009 10:52 PM EDT reply actions

Let's say you are right

and Hanson wins at the big level. What about the other four nights that we have games? Have you guys not figured it out yet? SP is not our problem. It is our defense and lack of hitting. Our SPs have been pitching great for the most part, and apart from that little hiccup earlier in the season, our BP has been pretty dang good too.

Penis

by justincredubil02 on May 9, 2009 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions

Say Hanson has wont even TWO of those wins that Jo Jo lost. In a division this tight, that could be HUGE. We would only be 1 game back and right in the the thick of things. Now imagine that Jo Jo continues to not get wins for another month, thats another 5 possible wins that we are risking with Jo Jo. Don’t you think that many games is enough to make a difference in this division?

60% of the time, it works every time

by ATLandUNC on May 9, 2009 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions

Say JoJo pitches EXACTLY as he did in those same games

but Chipper, Yunel and FYF all hit better.

How can you blame SP for the Brave’s losses? It is our offense. Our miserable, anemic offense. Let’s say that last night, Yunel doesnt botch the third out in the 1st or 2nd inning (I can’t remember, but I think it was the 2nd). The Phils don’t score 4 runs. The final score as it was would be 6-6. Atlanta would have still been in that game.

Our offense and our defense are our problems, not our SP. Leave Hanson where he is right now. He isn’t the answer at this point.

If this were last year, sure, bring him up. We needed SP help last year. This year, not so much.

Penis

by justincredubil02 on May 9, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions

Jo Jo

Fans tend to be very impatient with young pitchers. It took Kyle Davies a couple of seasons to adjust to the major leagues, but look what he’s doing now in Kansas City. And, remember, the Braves have nothing to show for developing him.

A more careful look at Jo Jo shows he has made considerable progress in the last year. His command is much better, and his stuff is good. Sure, he isn’t Johan Santana. He isn’t winning games yet, but he’s a better pitcher. If the Braves intend to get value out of Jo Jo, this isn’t the time to give up on him. he has nothing to gain from returning to AAA. The club needs to give him a couple more starts and see if he can grow in the role. And even if they are ultimately going to trade him, they need to increase his value first by giving him an opportunity to show what he can do.

by Messenger on May 9, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions