Maybe losing isn't such a bad thing

by ATLandUNC on May 6, 2009 2:07 AM EDT

No one ever wants to lose. It is painful to watch a team that is performing in the way the Atlanta Braves have been for the past few weeks, but maybe there is a silver lining.

Everyone remembers the Tex trade and has very strong opinions on it, and I think we can all agree that we don't want to sell the farm for a one year rental again. Yet, with how much money is being spent on the rotation and with how badly the offense is performing, the management would almost be forced to make just such a trade if the Braves still have a shot at the division by the trade deadline.

Maybe the best thing for this team is to be so far out by the deadline that they become sellers. This team needs a shakeup; as a team built around KJ, Esco, Chipper, and Francoeur has gotten us nowhere. Perhaps trading away one or more of those players for big-time minor league talent would be the smartest choice moving forward.

The 2010 (expected) rotation of Hudson - Lowe - Vazquez - Jurrjens - Hanson could easily be the best in baseball for the next 2 years. We all know about Heyward, Gorkys, Freeman, Medlen, Locke and others, but what if we got a big-time AA or AAA 2B and 3B to go with them? An infield stud or two would make this team a force to be reckoned with for several years, and we would still have our surplus of young arms and outfield talent. The 2010 and 2011 Braves could be a mirror image of the 2008 Tampa Bay Rays.

I know this team is painful to watch, but every loss could ironically be taking us closer to a brighter future.

Supposing this scenario is plausible, any ideas of young infield players that would be worth trading one of the aforementioned players for?

This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.

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The only thing I can say is losing brought us Heyward. Its gonna bring us Tate, Wheeler, Matzek or Green. It sucks but its a part of winning, no team no matter how resourceful can compete every year. Now Wren did make this possible by signing Anderson instead of Dunn but he’s the boss.

by rocket8188 on May 6, 2009 2:16 AM EDT reply actions

Yeah, the 2010 rotation is the problem, all that minor league talent you’re talking about is probably 2 years away. By 2011 Lowe will be 38, and Hudson and Vazquez will be free agents. All those moves this offseason were made to win over these two seasons.

If we’re out by 15 games, Wren will be trading OUR prospects for a player to help us next year. The only way one of our guys gets dealt for prospects is if he’s either at the end of his contract and we’re out of contention, or there is someone ready to step into that spot now.

This team is never going to be the sort that stocks up on prospects to target a point 2, 3, or 4 years in the future where they could contend.

by Lennox on May 6, 2009 4:31 AM EDT reply actions

You honestly think that if we’re 15 games out of the playoff picture that we’re going to be buyers? Maybe I’m reading that wrong, but that doesn’t make any sense.

by Smoltz's Beard on May 6, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions

We were trying to trade for Bay last season and it was obvious that we had no shot at the division and were selling guys like Tex and Kotsay. This team will always be in a mindset that they’re just that 1 or 2 players away from being a contender, if that means giving up prospects this year for a player to help us next year, that’s what will happen.

by Lennox on May 6, 2009 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Alright…I see what you’re saying about Bay but he wouldn’t have been a one year rental…that’s what I was referring too. He would have looked pretty nice in LF this season, right?

by Smoltz's Beard on May 7, 2009 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions

I believe we are on the verge of a long string of winning seasons again. We had a few tough seasons, but our farm system has reaped the few benefits of a losing MLB team. Through great drafts and expert scouting, we have the lower league depth that could fuel Atlanta’s team for a decade.

...catsports...

by bwellnjonesco on May 6, 2009 8:18 AM EDT reply actions

Losing is always bad. It is never fun

by eaheckman10 on May 6, 2009 9:53 AM EDT reply actions

The thing about those players that we could trade none of them are going to net us a big time prospect. Look at Hanley Ramirez for example he was traded in a package for Beckett and Lowell. Right now Johnson has no value. Escobar is a little overrated by Braves fans and from I’ve read by people who are unbiased they say that while he is a good player he’s also the type of guy thats not that hard to find. He plays good defense with a .280 AVG. .350 OBP and limited power plus he’s not a base stealer. Francouer is going to be hindered by last seasons terrible performance for quite awhile. Even if he does return to form he’s going to have to do it again next year to increase his value. Chipper has value but really only to an AL team where he wouldn’t have to play the field everyday. Even at that he still wouldn’t net a big prospect because of his age, injury concerns, and price tag.
The player who’s going to have the best chance to net us some good prospects is Vazquez. Every year it seems that some team is looking for pitching at the deadline and they are willing to overpay to get that player. Some of the most lopsided trades in baseball have been for an average starting pitcher at the deadline.

by jack dein on May 6, 2009 10:08 AM EDT reply actions

Keep in mind that Mike Lowell actually had negative trade value at the time of the trade.

Yunel Escobar overrated? Really? Great defensive shortstops who can OBP over .360 with gap power are very hard to find. I’ve heard at least one unbiased source say that Yunel was the second most valuable shortstop in baseball (behind Hanley Ramirez) because of his service time. Personally, I would say, trade-value wise, Yunel Escobar is the third most valuable shortstop in baseball. Hanley is first and I suppose Jose Reyes is second. No other shortstops have more trade value than Escobar because he’s under team control for 5 years. Someone like Rollins cost a ton more annually and has less years of team control remaining while a comparable shortstop like Hardy has significantly less team control time left as well.

by VictorW on May 6, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions

They weren’t taking into account money they were making. I think that they have to when deciding trade value. I would rank Escobar 3rd in the NL East. Hanley is the clearly the best and I think Reyes is number 2. Escobar has I think moved ahead of Rollins. Hanley really isn’t making as much money as he should. Reyes is a solid SS. He hits for a solid .280 AVG. plus he has great speed to steal bases and he’s got the same or better power then Yunel. Yunel is a good player and I really like him but I can see where the overrated comes from. He doesn’t have that good of power, he doesn’t have the speed to steal bases.
On to the trade value status I think that his trade value is high. However his service time is getting close to 3 years and then he will start making more money. In terms of a trade though I wouldn’t think that by trading him you would get anyone who is that much better. He isn’t that far removed from prospect status and if you got a player that is projected to be about the same as him then why trade him.

by jack dein on May 6, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions

We don’t need more prospects. We need a power bat now. Or at least for the foreseeable future. We have the deepest farm system in baseball and it would be foolish of us to hold onto all of those guys, especially when our system is about to get a little deeper.
Heyward and Freeman are in the pipe as run producers but even if we assume they both turn out great we have a 3 year gap before they are in the majors doing their thing at a good level. So do we just go into full rebuilding mode for the next three seasons? I just dont see that happening, especially when winning could be one good trade away.

by yondaime4 on May 6, 2009 6:24 PM EDT reply actions

If a power bat could be attained for LF

without depleting the farm too badly then sure. But much like the Tex trade, going for the big move doesnt always ensure results. My point was I would rather the Braves hold onto their pieces this year if a move would only be to save face and make a desperate stretch for the postseason. We have almost no sure IF talent coming up other than Freeman, and the infield we have now has failed us for 3 years. Just seems like something has to be shaken up.

60% of the time, it works every time

by ATLandUNC on May 6, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions

The two most expendable players I see are Morton and Reyes. Surely some team in dire need of young quality starting pitching would deal away a bat for one of those two.

I mean, the distinction even between this year and last is obvious. Quality batter behind Chipper, he wins the hitting title. This season? He’s pitched around every at bat.

by kalesi on May 6, 2009 6:34 PM EDT reply actions