Bobby Cox continues to show us how senile he is
This guy has had a great career as a manager, but Bobby, it's over. As of now, he is one of the worst managers in the game and continually removes any doubt of that. This game has been an absolute embrarassment as a Braves fan.
First, Jo-Jo Reyes is not going to be an effective major league starter. He's shown numerous times that he doesn't have the stuff, control, or command to consistently be effective as even a back-end of the rotation starter. He may have a future out of the pen, but we've got Tommy Hanson and Kris Medlen making AAA batters look foolish. CALL ONE OF THEM UP!!!
Second, the bullpen. Listen, I love what Bobby has done mixing and matching Soriano and Gonzalez, but that doesn't make up for having two pitchers in that pen that have absolutely no business being on a major league roster. Jeff Bennett just doesn't have the stuff that he had last season (probably because he's been visiting mcdonalds a bit too much lately) and Buddy Carlyle has never had the stuff to be a major league pitcher. He's like a real poor man's Kyle Davies in terms of stuff, who somehow was able to get lucky last season and have some success. It's not last season though. He's historically been bad, is bad, and will continue to be bad.
And of course it's not exactly all that difficult to fix these problems. Here you go Bobby, I'll give you a bit of help. Call Hanson up to replace Jo-Jo and kick those other two bums to the curb for Medlen and you can fill in the third (Morton?). I just needed to rant.
0 recs |
96 comments
Comments
lol
yeah agreed that Cox needs to go. The guy did sooooo much for this organization so hopefully he wont get his contract renewed and maybe the Braves gives him a position in the front office with Wren and JS. He deserves that. But as far as managing yeah he is done. I read a comment where Smoltz Beard said that he thought Cox was turnin the corner in another thread but then it was same old Cox you know i was thinkin maybe he was i mean Cox usin his Closer in the 8th inning the other night i mean i was thinkin is that the same Cox, he is learnin. Well he isn’t i guess it was just luck him doin that.
But i still have hope for Reyes we have given him chances i still think he becomes a serviceable Starter somewhere, maybe 3-5 more likely number 4-5 starter in the majors in the future. Dude was385 you say that Hanson and Medlen are dominating AAA batters. That is AAA batters there is a difference. You gotta realize that once upon a time that Reyes was dominating AAA batters also. No doubt Hanson is better than Reyes i wont argue that. But Medlen??? I still dont know what we do with him? Starter or reliever? prolly starter but who does he replace? I guess we could use him as a reliever then next year or whatever start him but i just think its better to leave Medlen in AAA and let him KEEP on dominating AAA hitters or if he falls back to earth.
Yep it sounds realllll easy to say do this and do that but who knows if they will work or not? I like Hanson alot but who knows how he will do right off the bat in the majors. He could flat out dominate or he could have some good games, some bad games in there look mediocre. There is just a difference in dominating AAA hitters and MLB hitters. He will be good as long as he stays healthy no question about that its just not as easy as sayin bring him up and let him go.
braves#1
by rockybull on May 13, 2009 4:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I realize that AAA stats don't mean major league success but...
Reyes isn’t working, and Carlyle/Bennett in the pen aren’t working. Bennett is a sinkerball guy throwing everything way up in (or way out of) the strikezone so far this season (25 hits, 8 walks, and three hit batters in like 16 innings is absolutely awful). Of course if I had my choice between him and Carlyle staying, it’d be Bennett but that’s not exactly a vote of confidence. Carlyle just doesn’t have the stuff and I don’t think anyone would say otherwise (he’s got a straight high-80’s fastball and a not even an average breaking pitch.
Again, I realize that AAA doesn’t mean major league success but what else do Medlen and Hanson have to prove in the minors? If all of our pitchers were pitching effectively then sure, leave them down, but since they’re not, give them a shot at the very least. Medlen can crank it up to the mid-90’s from a relief role and he’s got a really nice curve and that two-pitch mix should be effective in relief. Hanson is a fantastic pitcher and has earned a shot in the majors with Reyes not pitching effectively in the slightest.
The problem you seem to be bringing up is that we could have sub-par performance from them, but we’re already getting very sub-par performance so we really have nothing to lose.
by was385 on May 13, 2009 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but what else do Medlen and Hanson have to prove in the minors?
That they can pitch effectively for more than 5 weeks
Penis
by justincredubil02 on May 13, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they have a history and the stuff to back it up
They both have a long history of minor league success and both have the stuff to back up their utter domination. This isn’t some fluke that they’re having success, they’re just straight up dominating AAA hitters. And while it’s nice that they had some AAA seasoning, the jump to AAA is far less than the jump both made when they went to AA. In fact most of the players they’re seeing at AAA are AAAA or major league retreads who aren’t good enough any more. A lot of times you face better competition in AA, but regardless, they’ve both proven they can handle AA and AAA. What we have now isn’t working, they’re not even being challenged in AAA right now, seems like a match made in heaven.
by was385 on May 13, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree completely
His stuff is not all that good and not at all consistent. The bottom line though is regardless of his minor league success, he’s not being successful in the majors and that’s what counts. The answer on this blog seems to be it’s better to stick with someone who isn’t and hasn’t succeeded in the majors than to give a couple guys shots to do better.
by was385 on May 14, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not the "answer" at all
in fact, there isn’t even a problem. Our SP is near the tops in the MLB. Sure, JoJo has struggled, but if there were ever a time for him to be given the chance to figure it out, now is it. The other 4 (maybe only three…) SPs can certainly carry the load here and allow the organization the ability to tinker with JoJo against good competition (as opposed to AAA, where he has “dominated” like Hanson and Medlen).
Screaming for this guy’s head after only a few starts is worthless. I posted this in the game recap, but I think it can be reposted here.
Let’s play a game
Name that Pitcher:
Through his first 43 games:
245.2 IPs, 4.77 ERA, 9W 21L, 1.435 WHIP, K:BB 1.08
Through his first 38 games:
186.2 IPs, 5.89 ERA, 5W 15 L, 1.63 WHIP, K:BB 1.37
One of these guys is JoJo, the other is a Future Hall of Famer…Braves’ fans should be familiar with him…his name is Tom Glavine – one of the best LHP of all time and a perfect example of why we shouldn’t give up on anyone too quickly.
Penis
by justincredubil02 on May 14, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We had a nice situation for Glavine to come up
The Braves sucked and that made it easy to just be able to give a guy a lot of chances because there was really nothing riding on it. But this team is in contention and we unfortunately (or fortunately) don’t really have the luxury of letting guys keep going even when they’re getting knocked around. If Reyes had really spectacular stuff, I might be slower to call for his replacement, but he’s one of those guys that will live or die with his command and he just hasn’t shown really anywhere that he can consistently do that well. And Glavine is an exception, and very very far from the rule.
by was385 on May 14, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So Tommy G's teams sucked
I forgot that last year we won the division. Or that this year we expect to win the World Series.
We DO have the luxury of being able to afford throwing JoJo out there. I already alluded to that in an earlier post. With our 1-4, we can throw Brad Klontz out in the 5 spot and still be competitive in the standings.
And you are just wrong about Reyes not having “stuff.” He is nasty when on. He is more than a location pitcher.
Penis
by justincredubil02 on May 14, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're looking to be competitive this year
We’re not going to run away with anything and we’re certainly not the favorites in our division, that means we can’t afford to keep someone on to be ineffective and try to figure things out when we’ve got potentially better options somewhere else. This division could easily come down to a game or two at the end of the year.
As far as his stuff, I disagree. I like his curve but he’s got a very straight fastball that he doesn’t have the velocity to mask that fact. What I’m trying to say is that he doesn’t have the stuff to mask any command or control problems and I haven’t seen anything close to the consistency he would need to transform that stuff into success. On the other hand, a guy like Tommy Hanson does have the pure stuff to mask some of those problems.
by was385 on May 14, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless this team adds a bat to the OF
or Frenchy pulls a Jekyl/Hyde performance, this team is not going to do anything (assuming the Mets and Phils dont just give us the division).
This is as pessimistic as I have ever been about this team, but I am realizing that it is the truth. JoJo can throw all he wants and it won’t matter in the long run. Pitching will not lose this division for us. Our offense will.
Penis
by justincredubil02 on May 14, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The offense
I think it’s actually good enough to win with out pitching. The top of the lineup (1-6) seems to be doing quite well. Sure we have to suffer with Schafer’s bat but at least he’s getting on base and Francoeur isn’t completely useless this season. It’s not going to be a huge strength but I think our pitching will keep us in most games and the offense can score enough to keep this team competing. That’s why having an effective pitcher out every time is so important.
by was385 on May 14, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
tell that
to jj, kawakami, lowe and vasquez…our offense hasnt coast them aaaany wins, right?
Penis
by justincredubil02 on May 14, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, not saying they're great
And of course most of this season has been done without McCann, which is a HUGE hit to this lineup. We have strong pitching and that gives just an average offense a chance to compete.
by was385 on May 14, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand what you are doing with the Tommy G/JoJo comparison; however, I don’t think that is fair without taking all of the other guys that have failed into consideration. Tommy G is the exception, not the rule. He started off crappy, and ended up being a Hall of Famer, but there are thousands of pitchers that have started horrible and stayed horrible, we just don’t remember/talk about them because they sucked. It is true that JoJo could be the next Tommy G, and heck I am rooting for the guy, but realistically, the chances are against him that he will be anything more than mediocre at best.
I guess I would ask you a question, how many chances do we give JoJo to figure it out and to prove himself as a capable MLB pitcher?
People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.
by mvandonsel on May 15, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know the answer to that
But I don’t think that we have given him enough yet…
And yes, that is a fair point about all of the other guys who failed. I thought about saying something about that in my post, but it would fail to prove my point. :)
But, I would be willing to bet that every single one of our “great” pitchers in the game today struggled early on.
How many other “great” players could we have known about had they been given just one more chance?
Penis
by justincredubil02 on May 15, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No clue about the last question.
Perhaps we should give JoJo more time, but I feel like we are in a catch 22, either we send him to AAA and he keeps on performing at a high level there, which will result in another call up. Or we keep him in Atlanta and we worry about him struggling every 5th day, hopefully he figures it out sooner rather than later. If he figures it out later I have a feeling that it will be with another team.
People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.
by mvandonsel on May 15, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jeff Bennett's fastball and slider velocity are at a career high

by VictorW on May 13, 2009 4:48 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Bobby
Bobby Cox is a cinch first ballot Hall of Fame manager. I think most people give him a lot of credit, and so do I. I have been a Braves fan since the 19502, and there is no question Bobby Cox is the most successful Braves manager since Bobby Bragan.
Some managers get their reputations as great tacticians and strategists. Others get reputations as “players’ managers” because everyone likes them. Everyone likes Bobby. Bobby has never been a great tactician, but he is really popular with his players. He has been fortunate enough to have enough great players who respond positively to his style, and he has won a lot of ball games because of that.
I won’t say the game has passed Bobby by, because I don’t necessarily believe that. However, his station-to-station style of managing is not producing a lot of runs at this particular point in time. He has had opportunities to develop players with more speed, but he has not taken those opportunities for whatever reasons. He is using batters at the top of his lineup who do not have the athletic skills to manufacture runs. For the third year in a row, Bobby has the NL’s slowest lineup. Maybe this will work out, but I suspect this roster of players would benefit from a manager with a little bit more aggressive mindset. JMO.
by Messenger on May 13, 2009 4:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Station to station?
Braves just had 7 doubles and a home run today.
by Bronn on May 13, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of leaping to illogical conclusions....
The question is about managerial style and current fit. It’s a question of nuance. For people who actually understand the question, one day does not alter two decades of managerial history.
And for people who actually read thoughtfully before lurching to push the criticism button, it’s obvious that I like Cox, and always have.
by Messenger on May 14, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Braves fan since 19502?
Considering your screen name, are you a messenger from the future?
by angrysmurf on May 13, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you ask?
Based on the same sort of thinking, are you an angry scut-jockey from the past?
by Messenger on May 14, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jeff Bennett threw 2 scoreless innings today and got the win. The spot starter Martin Prado hit the game winning homer and scored the go ahead run in the 8th.
SUP NEGATIVITY!?
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?"
President, CEO, and chairman of the Brandon Jones fan club. PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK!
by bigjoe on May 13, 2009 5:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Can you spot start at first base?
by Euruproktos on May 14, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Knee jerk
You chose the wrong day to make a post like this.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
by royhobbs on May 13, 2009 5:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Either way
People have opinions on both sides of this issue, and there are good reasons for either point of view. But I can’t understand the response that it is the “wrong day” for this opinion or that opinion. Good grief, the guy has two decades of history as a major league manager. What in the world difference does it make what day it is?
by Messenger on May 13, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
because Today
bobby made the right moves that eventually won the game.
Penis
by justincredubil02 on May 13, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because this post was clearly made in response to frustration out of Jo-Jo’s bad outing, and the popular belief that the game has left Bobby Cox behind. At least wait for the Braves to lose before making the knee-jerk assumption that Cox is unqualified to manage a major-league team in this day and age.
The bullpen he criticizes – Buddy was put into any reliever’s worst scenario; bases-loaded, zero out. Unfortunately for Buddy, he gave up the worst possible outcome; the grand slam. But it’s rare that a reliever is capable of getting out of that situations scot-free, and Buddy put up some okay work afterward. Bennett, another one of his targets came out and gave the Braves two key innings holding the Mets at bay, yet Soriano, he who actually is credited with a BS and the reason there were extra innings in this game is seemingly absolved of any wrong-doing.
Yeah, opinions are entitled and great, but this one is clearly a little knee-jerk and jumped the gun just a little bit.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
by royhobbs on May 13, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t echo your point enough about guys like Carlyle and Bennett being tossed into the fire, and then people get pissed when their ERA isn’t spotless. If you throw Gonzo and Soriano into those sorts of situations they’re not going to come out unblemished 100% of the time. Seems like common sense to me.
by Smoltz's Beard on May 13, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You should be able to get some people out
The two have given up 63 baserunners in 31.1 innings combined. That’s awful (and btw, the runners they inherit do not effect their ERA’s). I’m not bashing on them for giving up other people’s runners solely, I’m bashing on them for being ineffective pitchers with histories of being ineffective pitchers. Relievers as a rule are very volatile. Every year there are nobodies who have a good year and then the next year are nobodies again but you have to realize that they are volatile and not stick with someone like that.
by was385 on May 13, 2009 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and btw, the runners they inherit do not effect their ERA’s
I’m not a child. I understand the basic concepts of baseball. Thanks.
Carlyle can get lost for all I care. I still think Bennett’s got talent however.
I won’t argue with you that he’s walking to many people, because he is…but his BB/9 is still right in line with where it was last year, and his K/9 has actually gone up. I don’t have the numbers right in front of me but people have said that his fastball velocity has actually increased this season and his offspeed pitches are looking much sharper this year…so your claim that he doesn’t have the stuff isn’t entirely accurate. His GB/FB is at 3.44…that’s really good. LD% is through the roof (27.3%) when compared to his FB% (16.4%)…but it’s never been anywhere close to that in the majors. It’s possible we can expect those numbers to even out. Seeing as how his BABIP is .431 there’s a fair chance that some of them are dropping just out of reach of defenders as well. You can’t argue that the chance of him being unlucky is there. But a 56.4 GB%? That’s legit. He’s throwing his fastball WAY more than previous years…perhaps that’s part of the problem.
On the other hand…Carlyle’s K/9 is down, his BB/9 is up, and when looking at his past GB%, LD%, FB%, GB/FB in his previous seasons you can see that he’s much more schizo than Bennett. His BABIP is also above average, but nowhere near as bad as Jeff’s. Bubby’s LOB% is also 66.1%, which is no where close to the healthy 86.1% that Bennett is supporting.
by Smoltz's Beard on May 14, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will call him Bubby the est of the year.
by Euruproktos on May 14, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just how drunk are you right now?
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
by royhobbs on May 14, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I said last year
When he was starting that I thought he had the stuff to be successful out of the pen. The problem is that he’s a sinker ball pitcher so if he gets that up in the zone, he’s going to get hammered. And he’s been working up in the zone A TON this season and that probably has to do with him not controlling his weight. You get that sinker up and it flattens out, the slider is just going to hang when he throws it up in the zone, that’s what I mean by his stuff not being there. There’s a reason every ball he gets up his hard hit and it’s not poor luck. If he could consistently work down in the zone, he could be a successful relief pitcher, but he doesn’t.
by was385 on May 14, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless you have seen every single appearance of his this season you’re just working on an assumption. I’ll be sure to keep an eye on this next time he pitches though. Could prove interesting.
by Smoltz's Beard on May 14, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very sorry
I have missed 5 or 6 games this season and maybe the 1-2 appearances he made during those games would severely alter my opinion of the overall body of his work this season.
by was385 on May 14, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no problem
Telling me that I’m pretty much talking out of my ass because you think I’m just making assumptions will warrant a sarcastic response.
by was385 on May 14, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hahah nice
“that is a terrible, horrible idea”
by bravesguy311 on May 15, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We are contractually obligated to mention this movie at least two times a week. Good work Beard.
People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.
by mvandonsel on May 15, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
of coarse with express written consent from major league baseball
by bravesguy311 on May 15, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He gave you credit
he said that you can’t really say that dogmatically, but that it is interesting and something to look for in his next appearance.
You didn’t have to go dick on him.
Penis
by justincredubil02 on May 14, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you havn’t noticed yet, this is the type of person who posts their opinion and then adamantly disagrees with everyone who doesn’t accept it…regardless of what they bring to the table in support. He’s right because he says so.
VictorW had it right from the get go…just another person to add to the ignore list.
by Smoltz's Beard on May 14, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very sorry
That I have opinions. If you or someone else bring up a point that changes my mind, I’ll accept them but as of now all I’ve gotten is a bunch of people telling me that Jo-Jo Reyes succeeded in AAA and Jeff Bennett has been throwing harder, neither of which change my opinions that Carlyle, Reyes, and Bennett need to be replaced.
by was385 on May 14, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When you say things like “Jeff Bennett just doesn’t have the stuff that he had last season” that are blatantly untrue, it erases the credibility of your opinions.
by VictorW on May 14, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes because that flat fastball
that he’s throwing up in the strikezone is freaking fantastic! I’m not saying he’s incapable of pitching like he did last season, I’m saying that everything is up because he has no control (weight problem?) and his stuff changes completely when it’s up in the strikezone. I love how disagreeing with what you think makes me lose all credibility.
by was385 on May 14, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
gaining weight = loss of control
???
How fast was he throwing last year? How fast is he throwing this year?
He has pitched something like 16 innings this year. I think that it is a little too early to be saying he has lost everything (especially after the game he had yesterday!)
Disagreeing with someone is one thing. Making stuff up and stating your opinion is something entirely different.
Penis
by justincredubil02 on May 15, 2009 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oops...
Making stuff up and stating your opinion is something entirely different.
should read: Making stuff up and stating your opinion AS FACT is something entirely different.
Penis
by justincredubil02 on May 15, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
weight problems
Do you remember why he went from a nobody to a major league arm last year? Because he got his weight in control. Extra weight can lead to fatigue and when you get tired, your mechanics break down.
I’m not making things up and I’m not stating my opinion as fact, I’m stating it as an opinion. And of course, since you disagree with my opinion and can’t make me see your side, an opinion becomes a dirty thing to have.
by was385 on May 15, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m saying that everything is up because he has no control (weight problem?) and his stuff changes completely when it’s up in the strikezone.
Opinion stated as fact.
And he’s been working up in the zone A TON this season and that probably has to do with him not controlling his weight.
Opinion stated as fact
There’s a reason every ball he gets up his hard hit and it’s not poor luck. If he could consistently work down in the zone, he could be a successful relief pitcher, but he doesn’t.
Opinion stated as fact
Penis
by justincredubil02 on May 15, 2009 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
Do you need me to preface every sentence I say with “I think”? I figured that the readers of this blog were smart enough to realize that what someone says is opinion and that even if they don’t throw out a disclaimer to that extent.
Disclaimer: Everything I am saying is my opinion and is not intended to read as absolute truth.
by was385 on May 15, 2009 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know he gave me credit
With a nice back-handed slap in there. I’ll shoot a sarcastic response back to that and I find it hilarious that the one who initiated the sarcasm has such a moral objection to this nonsense.
by was385 on May 14, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mine wasn't
Posting on a board like this encounters some responses that substantively address an interesting point or trend. But, often, one encounters responses that don’t.
There isn’t a team in major league baseball that won’t win at least 55-60 games this season. Discussing the idiosyncratic way in which a team wins one game means absolutely nothing.
Discussing the way in which a team’s management matches managerial style with available resources means everything.
Over a 20 year period, the Atlanta franchise has done this reasonably well. The question is which way the franchise is headed now. It isn’t nearly as simple as many here would like to make it, and the answer won’t be revealed on one particular day.
by Messenger on May 14, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about that anemic braves offense putting up 8 runs!
by Zeus12888 on May 13, 2009 5:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
but we’ve got Tommy Hanson and Kris Medlen making AAA batters look foolish
Would those be the same AAA batters that JoJo Reyes has historically dominated and made look foolish?
Dominating AAA /=/ Effective in MLB
Penis
by justincredubil02 on May 13, 2009 5:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
AHHH Booby is senile, the bullpen sux, bring up aaa players because theyre dominating so far “in AAA” we can’t score runs without speed! Wait aren’t the Braves only 1.5 games out of 1st? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
by chance13ga on May 13, 2009 5:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Braves fans have become complacent
I’m quite happy that we’re still very close to first. That’s because we have a good team. The offense is good enough, the starting pitching 1-3 (and hopefully Kawakami’s good start was a sign of things to come), a strong pen with the exception of Bennett and Carlyle, but are you in favor of having two ineffective relievers in the pen? Btw, when did I say anything about the offense?
by was385 on May 13, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Complacent?
Really? I haven’t heard that accusation in a while.
by sddbaker on May 14, 2009 5:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate to rain on everyone’s “bash the op” parade, but it had been time for Bobby to go for a long time now. What other professional franchise would allow a coach to go 13 years without a championship and then miss the playoffs for 3 straight years and not even hint at his job being in jeopardy? He was able to win when he had the Cy Young staff, but without the greats doing all the work his teams have been mediocre at best. It’s time for new blood to come in and turn this franchise around. ABBOTP in 2010. (Anyone but Bobby or Terry Pendleton)
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on May 13, 2009 5:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with some of your points, but keep in mind how many teams haven’t won titles in more than 13 years. There are many that have juggling managers just trying to find one to get them to even a .500 winning percentage.
I of all people have essentially 180’d on Bobby over the last year, and I’m seeing more often than not, moves that leave me thinking “wtf,” and I agree that Bobby might be best off to throw in the towel. But we all know nobody’s going to fire him, so it’s more or less up to the events of next off-season to see what happens next, when his current contract is done with. My take now is that yeah, I won’t miss the manager when he’s gone (but I’ll miss the person), but all I can really do is hope that he proves his recent penchant for strategic maneuvering isn’t a flavor of the week, and continues to occasionally push some correct buttons for some wins.
As for the playoffs, I’m under the mentality that it’s way too big of a crapshoot to really be effectively managed. Although, I do disagree heavily with a lot of Bobby’s moves in 2005 NLDS, but the Astros that year were the hottest team in the NL, surging hard into the playoffs, through the Braves, through the Cards, until they ran into an even hotter AL squad in the White Sox. Can’t fault just Bobby for playoff failure, because lots of “great” managers are sent packing from time to time, if they even get there in the first place.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
by royhobbs on May 13, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You hit that one on the head
Many try to point to the Braves failures in the postseason as evidence of Bobby’s ineptitude or something along those lines. I mean it isn’t like he just forgets how to manage in October after winning 90+ games during the streak. The only series I truly feel the Braves got beat by an inferior team during the entire run was the 96 series against the Yankees. I will forever hate Jim Leyritz because his one defining moment was the most crushing moment for me as a Braves fan.
In 1997, Eric Gregg essentially handed the NL to the Marlins and Livan Hernandez with his 12 foot strike zone. In 1999, the Yankees were an unstoppable machine. In 2001 the Braves caught the buzzsaw of Schilling/Johnson when they were both at the peaks of their respective careers. In 2003 the Braves caught buzzsaw of Wood/Prior when they were both at the peaks of their respective careers. In 2004 Carlos Beltran was a one-man wrecking crew. I agree that 2005 hurts, but I feel you can hardly blame any of these series on Bobby. Sometimes you need to tip your hat because the other guy beat you.
I will say though that I’ve been of the opinion since 2007 that it was time for Bobby to go because I do feel that his strategic shortcomings have harmed the ballclub more than his penchant as a “player’s manager”. Of course, I will never suggest he should be fired because I feel he’s a Joe Paterno/Bobby Bowden type that deserves to go out on his own terms. I do feel however that he has mismanaged the bullpen in both 2007 and 2008 to the point that the arms were so exhausted by year end that they had nothing left in the gas tank. I also have disagreed with some of his questionable lineup decisions over the past couple years. However, the Braves are only 1.5 games out of 1st place right now so obviously he’s doing something right.
http://hobnailboot.wordpress.com/
by AuditDawg on May 14, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw some video the other day...
from that fiasco in 1997 with Hernandez and Eric Gregg. I almost had to be medicated (again).
by sddbaker on May 14, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only name I’ve heard mentioned regarding a Bobby replacement was Ned Yost. Thoughts?
"When life gives you lemons, just say 'F*ck the lemons,' and bail."
by Bravely going forward on May 13, 2009 6:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I read a 2007 interview with Dale Murphy
In which he was asked if he would ever consider being a manager for the Atlanta Braves and he said that he and John Schuerholz had actually discussed the possibility before. Not only would that be a PR dream for the Braves and their fans, but I think Murph would be a great choice to help bring in the new generation of players like Heyward, Freeman, Gorkys etc… He would bring a great sense of pride work ethic to the team.
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on May 13, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting...
Has Murphy been involved in coaching since retiring?
by tchoup on May 13, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There’s critics of Bobby Cox, and then there’s critics.
I hate guys like this who say “Why is Bobby repeatedly using these pitchers, they all suck!” and then goes on to name several guys. Not only is it silly to lay all these personnel decision’s at Bobby’s feet when that’s an issue with the front office, but the guys have decent numbers despite being EXTREMELY unlucky (someone might have a .458 BABIP against him, not mentioning names here…).
Most of the time there’s other factors as well, like, your starter got lifted after three innings and your best long relief option is on DL (even though Carlyle actually put up better numbers than Campillo last year, and hasn’t been particularly lucky himself). These seldom come up with the Bobby bashers.
And then you can mention guys putting up stellar numbers in AAA-well, there’s a reason that Jo Jo Reyes continues to get opportunities. Check out his minor league numbers-he keeps posting ERAs like 2.72 or 2.31 with a K/9 rate hovering around 9. That should somehow translate in a major league equivalent around a 3.65 ERA with a K/9 rate around 6, but it never does. But it’s not surprising that the kid keeps getting chances. And given that we have 2.5 starters on the DL, and our top 4 starters are absolutely set, perhaps management isn’t completely nuts either for keeping those guys in AAA and not starting their arbitration clocks.
And there’s plenty of others who are like “Why can’t we use Soriano 4 days in a row?” when the dude had elbow surgery last year. Like Dusty Baker asking “Why can’t Mark Prior throw 132 pitches? I see no reason he can’t.”
Now, I’m not saying that the man is above criticism. Sometimes he makes inexplicable decisions, like having his hot hitters lay down bunts, or intentionally walking, say, Alex Cora. Even that isn’t as bad as some of his critics make it out to be: the count was already 2-1, Cora is left handed with an OBP of .444 (this season), but on deck to pinch hit was a slow, right-handed catcher with an even worse career OBP than Cora, and he was coming on to face a right handed sinkerballer. Castro walks, but even Gameday says that 2 pitches called balls were in the strike zone.
His greatest strength and his greatest weakness are his loyalty to his players. Guys who are struggling will get every chance to fail, and that’s frustrating, but it also gives men the confidence to just play, and you see some great turnarounds-like pretty much everything we got from Mike Remlinger over 4 great seasons, or the great 2001 season John Burkett had, etc.
by Bronn on May 14, 2009 1:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good post.
My main problem with walking Alex Cora, besides the fact that he’s Alex Cora, was that there’s already 2 outs. If there’s 1 out and he’s trying to put the DP in order, I don’t like that either but I can at least understand it. Walking Cora, who has a worse career OPS against RH than Castro, just doesn’t make sense to me.
by Smoltz's Beard on May 14, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Senile?
This is how Bobby Cox has always managed.
by Lennox on May 14, 2009 2:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like you are actually mad at Frank Wren
And, by the way, Jojo Reyes’ ERA in Triple A the last two seasons have been 2.72 and 2.31.
by BrandonG on May 14, 2009 10:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
and yes, I am partially mad at Wren
but this is Bobby’s team and he’s going to be the one who has to make the choice to bring in someone new. If Bobby is still confident in a player then Wren isn’t going to bring someone up to replace him.
by was385 on May 14, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, whether anyone wants it or not, Bobby will be replaced, because he has to retire some day. I bet he will finally hang it up after this season. So moot point right? Let’s move on.
If anything you guys should be debating who is going to replace the great Bobby Cox (one of the greatest managers in history). My bet is that it will be Terry Pendleton. You don’t keep someone who has a reputation like this on your staff for this long without using him as your successor. I’m giving him about a 90% chance he WILL be the next Braves manager.
And why would he be a bad manager anyway? What beef do you guys have? Look around the league, do you really think any of these guys are lightyears ahead of Pendleton? Managing isn’t that difficult. There really isn’t a lot of tactics a manager can do and just putting in the guys who are expected to start will get you plenty of wins without even doing any thinking. Frankly, what Bobby has done over the years has been remarkable because what it really comes down to is getting the respect from your players and getting them to perform up to expectations at least on the desire side. Can’t affect performance too much since that has a lot to do with arms, legs and the brain, but if anyone can ensure a decent attitude, play into the Braves system, and LISTEN, it’s Bobby Cox—probably THE most respected man in baseball from a shear numbers standpoint. Who doesn’t respect the guy?
So you know right off the bat, if you play for the Braves, there won’t be any bitching and moaning (yeah, Frenchy—but that didn’t last long), so the attitude will be there. Then it is just a matter of getting guys to use their stuff to the best of their abilities.
I say, lay off Bobby Cox. Let him have this one season. We probably aren’t going anywhere this season anyway. 2010 and 2011 is where it is at and we WILL have a new manager then.
Nobody has meant more to this franchise than perhaps Hank Aaron.
With that said…
Okay, so Bobby is rather conservative. This team is not THIS slow—no team is this slow. Every time we get someone on first with less than two outs the play will be what? Come on 20 years of bunting is too much. Honestly, I’m sick of the bunt. It is an OUT. This team should be running and hitting more. We have plenty of guys who can make contact or at least cut down on their swings and put the ball in play. Chipper can do it and even Francoeur cuts down on his swing to get the RBI. Since this team is not the typical Bobby’s Bombers we need to start manufacturing runs and that means running. Not necessarily stealing but come on, at least send the runner and swing away! Outside of the pitcher and Schafer, we have a whole team who can bat .290-.300 if they put their minds to it.
And really, stealing a few bases wouldn’t be out of the question either. A lot of very slow guys have a few stolen bases in their career numbers just because they aren’t stupid. They really truly need to bring in someone to teach this team to steal. I agree that it shouldn’t be a part of their total offense but if they are going to run and hit, they need to be in a decent position to get to second base if the batter misses the ball!
Okay, it’s not going to happen this season, but that’s part of my wish list for next season if Bobby retires. Get more action in the offense!!!
-----
Braves Fan Since 1982. Go Braves!
"All opinions welcome..."
by proeye on May 15, 2009 10:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
By the way, I think of a few guys right off the bat who should be stealing: Schafer for one. He doesn’t have any reason why he shouldn’t be stealing ahead of the pitcher. He’s been on 1st enough given all those walks. What about Escobar? Not a great threat but come on, he’s only 26 years old. Anyone at that age should be able to swipe at least 15-20. What about Infante? What about Frenchy? He is only 25 years oldl and supposedly a hell of an athlete. He should steal 15 bases every year—at least. Even Johnson should make up for his anemic season by stealing bases. He is only 27 years old so he should have some legs.
Okay, this is just complaining because it is not going to happen this year. We simply need a manager next year who is going to be a lot more aggressive. Hell, make me the manager! I’ll send ’em!
-----
Braves Fan Since 1982. Go Braves!
"All opinions welcome..."
by proeye on May 15, 2009 10:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Just b/c they are young doesn’t mean they are fast enough to steal a base, or smart enough to steal a base.
by Smoltz's Beard on May 15, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heres a little food for though about why Schafer doesn’t steal too often, or so I believe…
The math works great, because a third of his ABs come each with 0, 1, or 2 outs. He’s reached base nearly the same time in each of them. With 2 outs, Bobby isn’t going to send him because he doesn’t want him to get thrown out and have the pitcher lead off the next inning, or if theres a PH up, he doesn’t wanna burn him. With 1 out, 6 of his 8 hits are XBH, so you’re not going to necessarily send him there and waste the XBH. So that leaves none out, and Bobby usually immediately calls for a sac bunt with the pitcher up in that situation, and I think he’d rather go for the sure thing there then to send Schafer and have him thrown out, and have your pitcher up with nothing to do.
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?"
President, CEO, and chairman of the Brandon Jones fan club. PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK!
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that took more than
20 seconds.
Penis
by justincredubil02 on May 15, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really, just had to go to his B-R splits page and refer to it every so often.
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?"
President, CEO, and chairman of the Brandon Jones fan club. PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK!
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I figured someone was going to gripe about something. Seems like baseball fans are all about disagreeing—especially about stats.
You need to go back and read what I said. Being young at least gives you greater abilities to steal rather than being old and worn out. It’s all relative my friend.
If you do a little research you will find that most basestealers are young and many thumpers steal a few bases early in their careers.
-----
Braves Fan Since 1982. Go Braves!
"All opinions welcome..."
by proeye on May 16, 2009 7:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t need to do research about that, it’s all common knowledge.
But just because FYF is young and has decent speed doesn’t mean he can steal a base. Have you seen him try? He gets terrible reads off the pitch and his limbs are failing in all directions during his initial first step. That’s why he’s been thrown out 12 times in 21 attempts…I don’t want him giving away outs anymore.
by Smoltz's Beard on May 16, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then you really must be in the same camp I am, that is that he shouldn’t be playing every day
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it up on the scoreboard?"
President, CEO, and chairman of the Brandon Jones fan club. PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK! PLEASE COME BACK!
by bigjoe on May 16, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

by 














