Players we could have aquired - How are they doing?
by ATLandUNC on May 1, 2009 3:33 PM EDT
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PrintAdam Dunn - .310 AVG, 6 HR, 15 RBI, 11 runs
Nick Swisher - .312 AVG, 7 HR, 19 RBI, 21 runs
Bobby Abreu - .357 AVG, 0 HR, 12 RBI, 9 runs, 9 SBs
Kren Griffey Jr. - .200 AVG, 2 HR, 5 RBI, 9 runs
Rafael Furcal - .250 AVG, 1 HR, 5 RBI, 17 runs, 3 SB
Raul Ibanez - .359 AVG - 7 HR, 17 RBI, 20 runs, 3 SB
These are just the guys I could think of off the top of my head. I wasn't counting pitchers, so guys like Peavy and Burnett arent included.
As you can see - Dunn, Swisher, Ibanez, and to a lesser extent Abreu would have been HUGE in LF for us so far. I would take any one of those guys out there over the money we spent on Glavine, Kawakami, and Garret Anderson.
The gamble on Kawakami for the price was very risky, and so far isn't paying off at all. You can't fault the Braves for trying, but how on earth could they not have forseen the glaring weakness that their offense would have? I personally think it was foolish to spend the available runds on a risky import when big bats were still available for LF. Now we are being forced to see them shine for new teams.
I know hindsight is 20/20, but the state of this team seems to stem from poor judgement on the behalf of the managment. This team had the funds to make much needed improvements, but they failed to pull the trigger on any of the offensive upgrades we so desperately needed. Let's hope they can wheel-and-deal something before it is too late.
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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This also works under the assumption that if any of these guys where in Atlanta they’d be putting up these same numbers, which isn’t exactly accurate. Different circumstances breed different results.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
You see this phenomena when a guy gets thrown out stealing third and the next batter hits a single. The announcers always say “too bad he tried to run or he would’ve scored on the hit”. Because the pitcher obviously would’ve thrown the exact same pitch in the exact same location and the batter would’ve have the exact same reaction.
If Dunn walks 30 fewer times, he'll drive in 15 more runs. This is thanks to the scientifically proven formula: RBI = (this is nonsense) (I made it all up).
Here's a stat: Wins as manager: Dusty Baker, 1,162; Bill James, 0.
I was attacked for suggesting Abreu, and he has been on fire. He mustn’t have the “professional hitter” reference in his CV. For shitty defense and a lousy bat we must go with Garret.
KK has had one bad start and it may be due to this shoulder issue. Give em a break till he has 5 starts under his belt. Hell one good start and JoJo is a savior.
hindsight is 20-13 just like Ted William actual vision- ken tremendous
I don’t think we were ever really interested in Dunn so that doesn’t really matter. I don’t think the trade talks for Swisher went any further then Wren asking what they wanted for him then hanging up the phone because it was a lot. Ibanez got signed early in free agency when we were still trying to find pitching plus I’m not that sure we were really that interested in him anyway. Abreu would be nice but he has no power left in his bat and those 9 SB’s won’t last. I would be surprised if he gets to 20 by the end of the season. I have been watching some Mariners games recently because they are the only ones playing at midnight and it seems like Griffey gets pulled late in games a lot plus he’s not hitting that great either. Furcal would be nice to have but signing him would have forced us to trade Johnson and when you are forced to trade someone you usually don’t get good value for them.
About Kawakami though while he has started slow I think you have to give him some time. When Kuroda went to the Dodgers last year he started off slow to and then finished the season strong. I think Kawakami will be fine. He really doesn’t have to be anything more than a number 4 starter anyway.
Your post should be renamed
“Players that people think we could have gotten”
We have no idea if we were interested in some of these players.
Some of them, the FO has flat out said we were not pursuing.
Some “screwed” us over by committing then retracting.
Some would have cost way to much for us (both in terms of prospects – Swisher – and in dollar value – Dunn.
You may as well add Pujols, Manny, Utley, Adrian Gonzalez, etc to your list as Atlanta “could” have gotten them just as easily as some of the players you mentioned.
But yeah, your overall premise is correct: we should not have signed Garrett Anderson. He sucks.
Penis
by justincredubil02 on May 1, 2009 4:20 PM EDT reply actions
How about "Players that people think we could have acquired"? I don’t like “gotten”, even though it’s technically a real word.
If Dunn walks 30 fewer times, he'll drive in 15 more runs. This is thanks to the scientifically proven formula: RBI = (this is nonsense) (I made it all up).
Here's a stat: Wins as manager: Dusty Baker, 1,162; Bill James, 0.
either works
(pronounced EE-thur, not eye-thur)
Penis
by justincredubil02 on May 1, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
i just had that discussion the other day… actually eye-thur is acceptable in certain situations
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Some of them, the FO has flat out said we were not pursuing.
The FO also said we were going to go with internal options in LF, then went out and wasted money on Anderson. So, quite frankly, what they said is irrelevant, they’re going to lie about whatever they see fit to lie about.
i think they had every intention of using internal options
but saw an “opportunity” that they couldnt pass on. saying that they are intentionally lying is taking it a bit too far.
Penis
by justincredubil02 on May 2, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Lowe
We had absolutely no interest in him…until we signed him. So there’s another strike against the “We weren’t interested, so there’s no way we would have signed Player X, Y, and Z” argument.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
How about just using players we already have? We have two 4th starters that cost 1/10th of KK combined. I don’t even need to mention Ganderson or Glavine.
I recall that there was something to the Greinke rumors, how sweet would that have been? Don’t know what the pieces were apart from Frenchy. Then there was the “secret” deal that FW had worked out that never came to pass, I still wonder what that was.
If Dunn walks 30 fewer times, he'll drive in 15 more runs. This is thanks to the scientifically proven formula: RBI = (this is nonsense) (I made it all up).
Here's a stat: Wins as manager: Dusty Baker, 1,162; Bill James, 0.
Yea, agreed. Neither Swisher nor Ibanez would have that many homers already playing half their games in the Ted. Also those stolen bases? A pipe dream
Burrell
About the same price as Kawakami. He might have signed with the Rays for less because they’re on an upswing.
As for the argument that some are making: “FW wasn’t interested in Player X, so they shouldn’t be in this post…” well, that doesn’t mean FW was correct in his disinterest! Now, I agree that some of these players might have gone elsewhere regardless of our interest (Furcal and Junior are prime examples), and they shouldn’t be on this list. But Burrell, Dunn, and Abreu went to the highest bidder, and that should have been the Braves for one of them. Just sayin’.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
The price tag
that some of those players had put them out of the “could have had” category.
Penis
by justincredubil02 on May 1, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure why you keep going back to that theory…it doesn’t work at all. We had plenty of money at the start of the off-season. The FO could have afforded anyone on the above list if they had their priorities straight.
by Smoltz's Beard on May 2, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
KK
I don’t think it was a bad signing, opening a pipeline to Japan that could pay dividends later, but the rest of the team construction screamed WIN NOW! So why not put the most balanced product possible on the field? Again…just sayin’.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
Ludwick
My biggest regret was not trading Kelly for Ryan Ludwick. Infante’s playing great at 2B, and Ludwick has 5 HR, 19 RBI, and 10 runs.
As GM-Pretend, when you had that deal on the table, it was a royal f-ed up to have not pulled the trigger.
Ludwick, by the way, went yard again last night and now has 6 HR and 21 RBI in 21 Games.
i think we have discussed this ad nauseum, but WTF ill do it again.
First, the Cards wanted KJ and a pitching prospect… we never really heard which prospect they wanted, but i think we can safely assume they were eying Locke or Rohrborough (although I am just speculating as to the specifics of who was involved).
Second, suppose that Infante plays as well as he does in is utility role as an everyday player (which by the way is a huge friggin assumption). Now our bench depth is gone. Infante isn’t used to playing everyday and would need to have days off (i would suspect he would play 145 games). Chipper only plays 120-130 games… which means Prado is playing a lot more than he is now and Diory Hernandez is now on the Braves bench. Is it possible that Hernandez and Prado are equally as good as a bench of Prado (with less playing time) and Infante. Infante can play almost every position on the field and play it relatively well. He’s our primary backup SS.
Third, don’t you think part of the reason that Ludwick is doing so well is becuase he hits behind God. I don’t want to take anything away from Ludwick, he is getting good pitches to hit and is doing work on these pitches. However, I would suggest that Ludwick would be pitched to much differently if he was on the Braves. And probably wouldnt be doing as well.
Fourth. KJ is struggling right now.. but that doesnt mean he would end with good numbers.
To suggest that this is a royal f-ed up (which isnt acutally a phrase)… isnt really true. Its possible that Ludwick adds more value than KJ and an unnamed pitcher, but I wouldnt bet on it and I would much rather keep what we have and see how it turns out.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
What i was hearing was that it wasnt a pitching prospect but a reliever and they were wanting Boyer or someone of that caliber. So in hindsight it wouldnt really have been that much to give up if thats indeed what they were asking for.
Question, how does hitting BEHIND Pujols give him better pitches i thought it was if he was hitting in front he would get better pitches
by drumzalicious on May 3, 2009 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
seriously though, my reasoning behind claiming that he sees better pitcher is that… Pujols is on base about 46% of the time. this means that Ludwick is constantly on base and there aren’t open bases for the pitch to walk Ludwick. The pitcher knows he has to throw strikes for fear of putting another guy on base.
This is all just speculation, but I’ve always thought that hitting behind a great hitter will give you some good pitches to hit. But I admit there is better evidence that hitting in front is a greater benefit. I still think hitting behind is still beneficial.
Also, as far as I remember the releiver thing was concocted, in regards to the fact that the Cards need releivers and most assumed that they would go for that. But I think that deal would have gotten done… and remember hearing they wanted a prospect. If I am wrong, so be it. I never thought that Boyer came out of the Cards mouth, though.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
If we didn't stil GAnderson and Glavine
Then we still wouldn’t have been able to afford any of those guys other than Griffey, who wanted to play in Seattle anyway.
Also: regression to the mean. Good luck getting .900 OPS out of Ibanez going forward or even average defense from him.
My Biggest regret is Ludwick.
Swisher is doing great but his home ball park also is giving up like 5 homeruns a game if not more. so therefore his are prob skewed by that alone although i dont know for sure how many he has away vs at home
Ludwick on the other hand has been raking and Kelly started off good but i think we would have gotten over not having Kelly with the way Ludwick is performing.
then only downside is i doubt the braves would have utilized Infante as the 2B simply because he is our only back up SS unless they brought Brandon Hicks up to take Kelly’s place, which then it would pay off putting Infante at 2B and batting him second
Whats also kind of funny was the rumor was they wanted Boyer and Johnson for Ludwick. Our offense would be rediculous right now if we had this lineup
1. Schafer CF
2. Infante 2B
3. C. Jones 3B
4. Ludwick LF
5. McCann C
6. Frenchy RF
7. Kotchman 1B
8. Escobar SS
Then if we had gotten Furcal we would have had Schafer and Furcal at the top. talk about speed on the bases.
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