So Who is the Braves Closer?

by gondeee on Apr 23, 2009 1:49 PM EDT

The Braves have three guys who, by most accounts, have the stuff to be major league closers. Before spring training began we learned that Mike Gonzalez had been annoited the Braves closer, but things might be changing. Here are the stats for the three guys -- Gonzaelz, Rafael Soriano, Peter Moylan -- who are going to be the keys at the end of ballgames for Atlanta:

	W-L	G	GS	CG	SHO	SV	BS	IP	H	R	ER	HR	BB	K	ERA	WHIP
2009 - Mike Gonzalez	1-0	7	0	0	0	1	1	6.1	7	4	4	1	3	11	5.68	1.58

	W-L	G	GS	CG	SHO	SV	BS	IP	H	R	ER	HR	BB	K	ERA	WHIP
2009 - Rafael Soriano	0-0	7	0	0	0	2	0	7.0	2	0	0	0	3	10	0.00	.71

	W-L	G	GS	CG	SHO	SV	BS	IP	H	R	ER	HR	BB	K	ERA	WHIP
2009 - Peter Moylan	0-1	8	0	0	0	0	0	5.0	4	6	6	0	5	8	10.80	1.80

I don't think any of us need a Napa cap shuffle to figure out which guy we would pick to be our closer with the above criteria to make our choice. Rafael Soriano has been everything the other guys in the bullpen have not been this year. He has been consistent and he has missed bats by not giving up hits and striking people out. Not only has he not allowed an earned run this season, he has not allowed an earned run this year; being equally as dominant in spring training (5.0IP, 0R, 7K) as he has been during the regular season.

We are finally seeing the Soriano we all knew we got from Seattle, and he's finally healthy enought to be that guy who Bobby can run out there just about every night.

Peter Moylan struggled mightily in his first few outings, but he has settled down to become a reliable arm in the setup role. Mike Gonzalez has been fairly effective, just not as consistent. That leads us to the way he was used last night. It wasn't the ninth inning, and we didn't have the lead, and Gonzalez was brought in to face essentialy one batter -- the left-handed hitting Adam Dunn. Was Gonzalez going to be left in there for another inning if the Braves hadn't needed to pinch hit for him? Or was this a sign that Soriano is now the favorite to close games, and Gonzalez will be used as a setup man slash LOOGY?

One game is probably too much to read into, and the Braves haven't been ahead late in games the past week to use a closer or even a setup man.

Gonzalez was used in the eighth on Tuesday.
Soriano was used in the eighth on Monday.
Gonzalez was used in the eighth on Friday.
Soriano was used in the eighth last Wedneday.

It may look like it, but there really doesn't seem to be a pattern above, other than getting these guys some work late in losing games on an alternating schedule. Perhaps our closer of the night will be the guy with the freshest arm who didn't pitch last. Certainly the early struggles of Gonzalez have opened the door for Soriano to get more opportunities, if not the job outright. Hopefully we'll have some games that require us to use a closer in the next few days so we can see who Bobby Cox turns to in the ninth.

Poll

Who should be the Braves closer?

Mike Gonzalez

143 votes

Rafael Soriano

668 votes

Peter Moylan

21 votes

832 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

I would like a fourth option, where we use as the situation dictates, like was done last night. If Utley, Howard, and Ibanez are up in the 9th, use Gonzo. If righty’s are up in the 9th, use Soriano. They’re not making K-Rod money, they can swallow their pride.

"Ohhhh Shit."-Bobby Cox, 3/28/09

by 10-4 on Apr 23, 2009 2:11 PM EDT reply actions

Agreed

Given last night’s situation, Bobby seems to view Gonza and Soriano as equals. So use them as the situation dictates. Is Bobby Cox actually learning how to use a bullpen effectively? Who knew!

by Dandrews on Apr 23, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Amen. We have 2 closers. Use them as the situation would dictate. I have not problem with either being the 8th or 9th inning guy.

As far as Moylan goes, he had 2 money years then blew out his arm. Give him some time to be fully recovered. Remember when Gonzo and Soriano both went down last year Moylan was LIGHTS OUT in the 9th.

by cmdpsu15 on Apr 23, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Reply fail: I ~~have not~~ don’t problem

by cmdpsu15 on Apr 23, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Hmm

I don’t think at this time Moylan is ready to close and should even be an option. Furthermore, we kind of saw this in 2007 before Gonzo went down with TJS, but Bobby was literally using Gonzo and Soriano, completely dependent on the matchups they would likely be facing in the 9th. More lefties – Gonzo. More righties – Soriano. Granted, during that span, I think Raffy got like two saves and Gonzo one, but it showed some flexibility and willingness to play to the matchups rather than roles.

As for last night, one way or the other, Gonzo gets lifted for a PH, because base runners are needed, and a relief-pitcher doesn’t have a great chance at doing it. I don’t think it had anything to do with roles at that point, Bobby had the great luxury of utilizing his top LHP to dispose of Dunn, and still have Soriano to deal with the save situation. I imagine had the Braves not scored, we would’ve seen Buddy Carlyle or even Moylan there.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Apr 23, 2009 2:14 PM EDT reply actions

A non-save situation...

…is the last place I want to see Gonzo. He just doesn’t have that fire when the game isn’t on the line. The Braves would get more quality innings out of Gonzo if he’s pitching with the game on the line. While the most pivotal at-bats aren’t always in the 9th, that seems to be when Gonzo has performed best.

by tgb_18 on Apr 23, 2009 2:14 PM EDT reply actions

I believe I said before this season began

That Soriano should be the reliever the Braves should try to keep past 2009 (both are pending free agents). Soriano has pitched a lot more for the Braves in the same timespan as Gonzalez and has been a lot more dominating. We have YET to see Gonzo pitch an entire season.

I also don’t get why Moylan is even brought up in this discussion. It’s obvious his best role is working the 7th/8th innings leading up to whoever closes the 9th.

by ChipperTeixeira89 on Apr 23, 2009 2:25 PM EDT reply actions

I also don’t get why Moylan is even brought up in this discussion.

Gondeee explained why in, literally, the first sentence of his post.

Braves 2009 offense: in play, out(s)
Braves 2009 bullpen: in play, run(s)

by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 23, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions

the first sentence

The Braves have three guys who, by most accounts, have the stuff to be major league closers.

problem with Moylan is few things. one, he is just coming back from tj surgery. two, he is returning sooner rather than normal (work his arm out slowly). and three, at times he can be a little wild.

My whole point was that Soriano has more than just the “stuff” to be the Brave’s everyday closer. He has ridiculously good control and like we saw a couple days ago, he does not get rattled when runners are in scoring position.

by ChipperTeixeira89 on Apr 23, 2009 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions

Stuff. Gondeee said he’s in the discussion because he thinks he has closer stuff. The next time Moylan was brought up it was acknowledge that he hasn’t been on top of his game this year.

And I understand you’re point…I prefer Soriano too. It’s all good.

Braves 2009 offense: in play, out(s)
Braves 2009 bullpen: in play, run(s)

by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 23, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions

I like bringing Gonzo in to face the tough lefties like Dunn last night, no matter the inning. There are plenty of them in this division.

by TradeAndruw on Apr 23, 2009 2:35 PM EDT reply actions

JoJo could do this aswell...

He’z dollar billz againzt leftiez…

I mean after Hanson takes over the 5th starting spot…

...catsports...

by bwellnjonesco on Apr 23, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Soriano is the only one I have enough confidence in to bring in as a closer.

by HEYJUDE on Apr 23, 2009 2:42 PM EDT reply actions

I personally don’t think that Gonzo should be able to hold the 9th inning hostage because he claims that he can “only get fired up enough” if he’s the closer. We have a lefty and a righty who could both be closers, which is a great opportunity to use them situationally. Plus, it’s not like the key outs in the game always come in the 9th inning.

I’m worried that sometimes when Gonzo gets sufficiently pumped up, he also overthrows and misses spots. Soriano has looked great, but his heater isn’t 97 or anything, I like that’s he’s thrown it by there with confidence but sooner or later someone is gonna look for it, time it, and send a long ball out at a terrible time. So use them situationally and increase the chance that they can get a good even workload and face the hitters that will give them both the best chance to succeed.

by Sir Stealth on Apr 23, 2009 2:53 PM EDT reply actions

I, for one, dont believe the 9th inning is necessarily the most important inning in the game. in the philly game that has been causing my nightmares evers since, the key inning was the 7th when we couldnt get a damned strike, let alone an out. In that situation the “closer” should have come in and closed the rally while we were still up 4.
A guy coming in to start the 9th in a 1 run game is not nearly as key as the guy who got the out in the 7th with the bases loaded. Saves are the most overrated stat in baseball, except for Garret Anderson’s. That said, I love Soriano. He has a mean look to him. I think in 3 months his fastball will be back up to high 90s and there will be on comparison. Use Gonzo against the lefties, use Soriano for the win.

hindsight is 20-13 just like Ted William actual vision- ken tremendous

by heapofoatmeal on Apr 23, 2009 3:29 PM EDT reply actions

That's how people used to use closers until dumbasses though the save stat meant anything

Assholes.

by VictorW on Apr 23, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions

if soriano came out of the bp in the 7th instead of boyer we would have had the sweep. The hold is a much more important stat.

hindsight is 20-13 just like Ted William actual vision- ken tremendous

by heapofoatmeal on Apr 24, 2009 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions

In a perfect world if all three are on top of their game and healthy, I’d prefer Soriano to close and Gonzo/Moylan to be used in the 7th/8th depending on matchups. I think I’m in agreement with most people on this issue.

However, based on health status and arm fatigue due to use the night before…the best pitchers should obviously be used in the most important situation regardless of inning. With a three run lead and the bottom of the opposition’s order coming up there’s no reason to save a guy…Jeff Bennett could probably get that save.

Braves 2009 offense: in play, out(s)
Braves 2009 bullpen: in play, run(s)

by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 23, 2009 3:47 PM EDT reply actions

A lot of "consistents" in this post

Joe Morgan: They’ve been shaky in general. The trade that sent Farnsworth has made them consistent in the 8th inning, and their consistent pitching needs to be more consistent, like consistent has been and Joba consistent. Their consistent hasn’t been consistent consistent. They’ll have a consistent game, a consistent of consistent consistents, then consistent consistent consistent—consistent consistent consistent’t consistent consistent.

by TradeAndruw on Apr 23, 2009 4:31 PM EDT reply actions

Reminds me of the old JoeBaitin’ days…

Braves 2009 offense: in play, out(s)
Braves 2009 bullpen: in play, run(s)

by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 23, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Gonzalez usage last night

Just wanted to add my $0.02 to the closer “situation”. I was at the game last night, and sitting just above the Braves bullpen. Gonzalez was warming up before the 8th inning started, so I would challenge the assertion that he was being brought in “just to face Dunn”, or anything along the lines of a LOOGY-role. Bobby clearly intended to bring in his best guy if/when Jurrjens faltered after 7+ innings of work. This strategy is consistent with what most managers do on the road — namely get your best bullpen guys in there and try and win the game before it goes to extra innings. He was going to pitch Gonzo / Soriano 8 / 9 no matter what, and hope the Braves took the lead at some point, which they eventually (Finally!) did.

Soriano is looking good, and we are excited about his ERA right now, but lets not forget his past. 2 years ago he was unhittable early for a month or two, and then regressed back to human form. The reality is is that neither Gonzo nor Soriano are elite, lock-down closers that you bring in no matter what the situation. Indeed, there are very few such players MLB-wide. Thus, hopefully Bobby has realized what others have commented above, namely, to use Gonzo / Soriano as the situation / matchup dictate to give each the best chance for success.

Current MLB dogma is to bring in a “closer” for the 9th inning no matter what. Perhaps this is good from a psychological point of view for the closer, but I’d be curious to see how the closer-by-committee-by-situation stands up statistically.

by fphjr01 on Apr 23, 2009 4:36 PM EDT reply actions

+1

Well said.

by gondeee on Apr 24, 2009 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions

Whomever...

….gets the job done. The more guys we have that are capable of closing, the better we are as a team. As for now, I’d say Gonzo. However, it looks to become an unbalanced commitee.

by BBJ on Apr 23, 2009 5:01 PM EDT reply actions

Right now Soriano looks to be the man that needs to close.

Also, that NAPA cap shuffle is a cheating piece of crap game. I liked the old one better.

by BullManUGA on Apr 23, 2009 6:12 PM EDT reply actions

Who in the hell voted for Moylan? SHOW YOURSELF

SWAGGA LIKE...whoever the fuck is not walking people
President, CEO, and chairman of the Brandon Jones fan club

by bigjoe on Apr 23, 2009 6:33 PM EDT reply actions

I did because I though I would be the only one, but low and behold, he already had 2 votes! DAMN IT!

People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.

by mvandonsel on Apr 23, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Haven’t you noticed, that someone will always choose the worst choice, just for the sake of putting something on the board?

If I put up a yes or no poll that said “Is it okay to molest children???” you would expect it to be 100% no, but there will no doubt be some asshole out there who thinks it will be funny to click on yes.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Apr 24, 2009 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions

WHOA! I wouldn’t go that far.

by mvandonsel on Apr 24, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions

I could easily see Moylan as a closer in the future. He does have the tendency to be wild at times-but even if you take Gonzo’s BEST year, you see that Moylan compares favorably in walk rate. Any time anyone gets a hit off of Moylan, I marvel-I can’t imagine facing a side-armer who can throw 96 mph with movement on his fastball.

The thing about Soriano in 2007 is that he was lights out (despite giving up a lot of homers) but he was also extremely lucky. His BABIP was a ridiculous .208 (crazy), compared with a LD% of 16.5. Moylan, also lights out in 2007, has an also ridiculous .236 BABIP, but it lines up well with his 12.7 LD%. Also, he’s slightly less susceptible to the long ball than either of our other two candidates in his short career. That’s probably due to the good sinking action on his fastball.

I wouldn’t anoint him right now because he’s still getting back into his groove, but barring injuries, he’ll be our most effective reliever come August.

by Bronn on Apr 24, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions

I personally say Soriano. Gonzo always goes to that crap about how he isnt really in the zone unless he is in the 9th inning closing but thats rediculous because this season alone he has not been that effective in the 9th inning.

Soriano on the other hand is becoming more and more consistent. Heck even the night that the Braves played till like 12 against the Nationals earlier in the week Soriano didnt have anything but his fastball working and he managed to sit down the side without a run scoring. Not to mention his focus even with the 10 fans in the seats saying everything in the world and you being able to hear it clearly.

I just dont think that Gonzo could have held that down whether it was a save or not. With him it seems if his fastball is the only thing working we are in trouble.

by drumzalicious on Apr 23, 2009 11:54 PM EDT reply actions