Reading Between the Lines with Boyer and McDowell

by gondeee on Apr 22, 2009 1:00 PM EDT in Braves Trade News

I'll be the first to say that I think we gave up on Blaine Boyer a bit too early. He had a good, if not great, spring training, but he couldn't find his groove when the bell rang, and Bobby Cox lost confidence in him. I was disappointed but not shocked when the Braves decided to designate him for assignment. For Boyer's part, he seems to appreciate the change of scenery:

... [Boyer] threw in the bullpen Tuesday and was encouraged about the exchange of thoughts between him and Cardinals pitching coach Dave Duncan.

"It's been a long time since I've had somebody say, 'Let's work on some things,'" Boyer said. "For me, that's music to my ears.

"I'm a guy that likes to get busy and start working on some things and making things better. So when I hear that --and I've heard that multiple times now --about Dunc, that just fires me up. I'm ready to put the work in and see where we can go."

Here's where we read between the lines: "It's been a long time since somebody said 'let's work on some things.'" Different pitching coaches have different styles, and we may be seeing one style winning out for a particular player versus another style.

We don't hear much about Braves' pitching coach Roger McDowell's style. From what I've observed and what I've read he's a quiet and private teacher who doesn't give too many interviews. In fact, I've seen reporters get downright angry because McDowell was dodging them -- the guy doesn't talk to the media.

That makes it hard to figure his style; whether he's a guy who comes to the player, or waits for the player to come to him. Looking back just a few days, it's hard to reconcile Boyer's statement above with these words from Cox after he was traded:

“He’s a great kid, and he’s got enough experience now to get it going,” Cox said. “Roger [McDowell, pitching coach] taught him a slide-step, to keep runners from just circling the bases on him. And Roger taught him a nice, tight slider, what he used to strike out [Florida’s] Cody Ross the other day.

“So he’s learning things, and he just needs to keep developing.”

Is this an instance where Boyer is forgetting the past, or is he trying to lavish praise upon his new pitching coach? Or am I reading way too much into his comments? Regardless, this looks like the appearance of friction between Boyer and McDowell, or at the very least displeasure between the two. And this inference of displeasure leads me to read a bit deeper into why the Braves may have been so quick to cut Boyer.

In the past the Braves have been quick to sever ties with anyone who's not toeing the comapny line. Bob Wickman, Chad Paronto, Macay McBride, they were all let go or traded in part because they were vocal about their displeasure with the status quo. Could this be early season displeasure emenating from the Braves clubhouse (or bullpen)? Tough times can cause friction. This is certainly something to keep an eye on.

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OK, I'll say it.

I miss Leo.

Formerly Uncle Charlie of Minor League Ball

by Yakker on Apr 22, 2009 1:05 PM EDT reply actions

Me too...

by MatM on Apr 22, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions

If you're in the Marietta area (of Atlanta) this weekend...

you could go by his event and let him know in person…

John Rocker will be in attendance, for anyone wishing to impart any, um…thoughts directly to him. :)

I’ll be out of town, so I went to a meet-n-greet with Leo this past weekend. Damn present followed me and jumped up in my face again, but Leo didn’t seem to mind and took a picture with me anyway (sigh, had to wear a different top, the sweater needed cleaning from wearing it 24/7 since getting so many compliments the last time). He said he would absolutely love to have another coaching job, and will consider writing another book (I couldn’t put the first one down). I’m enjoying him being a part of the morning crew on a local sports talk radio station – he had Rocker, Javy L., B. Jordan and Klesko on there yesterday. But yeah, let him coach again by all means…he’s certainly passionate about it.

yeah the other 96 is that I am too good for everyone else.

by Lizziebeth on Apr 22, 2009 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions

hmm…no keys…

Braves 2009 offense: in play, out(s)
Braves 2009 bullpen: in play, run(s)

by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 23, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions

Times are tough, I heard she got laid off from her job as a janitor.

People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.

by mvandonsel on Apr 23, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions

After talking to some of the younger guys who worked with him a little with the Braves, and a couple who were there with the Orioles, I’m actually kind of glad he moved on. Apparently, he had no desire to work with a young pitcher to try to make him the best he could be, but wanted the pitcher to be a Mazzone style pitcher. There’s something to be said for being a Mazzone pitcher, they’ve done alright, but I wasn’t too impressed with what some of the guys were saying about his attitude.

This is in no way intended to take away from what he did for Atlanta. Frankly, I think he should be the first PC in the HOF.

"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Apr 22, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions

you wouldn’t talk to the press either if you were the Second Spitter.

"Ohhhh Shit."-Bobby Cox, 3/28/09

by 10-4 on Apr 22, 2009 1:08 PM EDT reply actions

Man!

The Seinfeld references are flowing today.

by gondeee on Apr 22, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions

That episode was on last night, it was funny to see Roger with a mullet hiding behind the bush. All the while thinking: that is our quiet, reserved pitching coach.

"Ohhhh Shit."-Bobby Cox, 3/28/09

by 10-4 on Apr 22, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions

The first time I met McDowell, we talked about that, and he still gets a kick out of it. I think it’s hilarious that one of the all-time pranksters of the game is our PC. Anybody else remember him in a kilt on Rock N Jock?

"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Apr 22, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions

We've lost way too many games on accout of Blaine Boyer.

And I hope nobody reads that wrong. We’ve lost tons of games on account of several different factors, lol, but if you are that excited about “working on some things,” then you may need some AA. Things should already work in the bigs, to an extent. Maybe we did give up too quickly, but not quick enough for me. The guy is a house of cards. He’s either all or nothing.

And I miss Leo, too. I could never understand why the Braves didn’t come calling, with him out of the job and all that. Maybe he’s working again, I’m sure somebody here knows. But a week ago, if I had been given the opportunity to cut one pitcher, it would have been Blaine Boyer. No thought even required.

"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews

by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Apr 22, 2009 1:09 PM EDT reply actions

The criticism with Leo after he left was that he wasn’t good with young pitchers. His best work was done with reclamation projects. Smoltz, Maddux, and Glavine were fairly easy to maintain, i would think.

"Ohhhh Shit."-Bobby Cox, 3/28/09

by 10-4 on Apr 22, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions

I was just going to say that. When the pitching staff started getting younger the knock on Leo was that he wasn’t good with developing them.

by cmdpsu15 on Apr 22, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Blaine Boyer

I forget where I saw this but I think Bobby or someone in the organization was quoted as saying something along the lines of they didn’t think BB had the mental make up to ever live up to his potential. That seems like a good enough reason to trade him.

by wash088 on Apr 22, 2009 1:11 PM EDT reply actions

The difference

With Paronto, McBride, and Wickman, is that it wasn’t too early. Neither of them have been any sort of a contributor to any major league team since.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Apr 22, 2009 1:20 PM EDT reply actions

It's been a long time since I heard someone say...

“That’s a 1-2-3 inning and nice work by Blaine Boyer” or…

“Boyer comes in throwing nothing but strikes” or…

“Man, Boyer looks like he’s lost a lot of weight. He must have really worked hard in the offseason” or…

“Man, Boyer looks awesome with his goatee and super cool sea-shell necklace”…

In all honesty, I wish him luck. I’m just glad I don’t have to worry about him being called in from the Atlanta bullpen anymore.

by Uninvited on Apr 22, 2009 2:03 PM EDT reply actions

I don't mind cutting bait...

but it seems the Braves have the quickest trigger in the West when it comes to the bullpen, while the team spins its wheels waiting on mildly productive position players to develop. Am I just imagining things?

The dude abides.

by imarealist on Apr 22, 2009 2:33 PM EDT reply actions

I think the Braves have been patient with Boyer

considering how many times he has come in from the bullpen only to give up a lead. Boyer was hurting not helping the team. The Braves were more patient than I would have been. I would have turned him loose last year.

I will say I miss Leo! I feel he worked with our pitchers more to help them. I don"t think Mc Dowell works with the pitchers enough, or what he says or does is not working. I get the idea that he does not care, he’s just there for his paycheck!
The pitching staff has gone downhill since Leo left and Mc Dowell was hired! We neeed a new pitching coach!

by HEYJUDE on Apr 22, 2009 2:55 PM EDT reply actions

It’s cool everyone, Rob Dibble has said numerous times during the past two games that McDowell is one of the best pitching coaches in the game.

Braves 2009 offense: in play, out(s)
Braves 2009 bullpen: in play, run(s)

by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 22, 2009 3:03 PM EDT reply actions

"If it's on the Internet, it must be true!"

Same can be said of what comes out of Dribble’s mouth.

"People need help, and you know how to help them."

by VegasAces on Apr 22, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions

In fairness to RM, he hasn't had the most talented or healthy pitching staff

Leo had three HoFers who (until 98 or 99) never missed a start. If he had those three and the pitching was bad, I’d have issues with him. Instead, it’s Blaine Boyer implying that RM didn’t teach him new things. Well maybe ol’ Blaine should have been a big boy and gone to the coach for advice.

"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09

by buzzdeadwax on Apr 22, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions

I’ve got nothing wrong with Roger, just thought it was funny that Dibble considered him a stone cold lock to be one of the best PC in the league.

Braves 2009 offense: in play, out(s)
Braves 2009 bullpen: in play, run(s)

by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 23, 2009 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions

True

Kiss of death? Dibble is kind of a tard, but aren’t most former players turned “analysts”?

by buzzdeadwax on Apr 23, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions

Haha, I’m glad you reminded me about this…I was watching BBTN or MLB Network after our victory last night and it cut to Fernando Vina who said something along the lines of “let’s check out Manny’s influence on tonight’s game”. Like any normal person I figured I’d see him lacing a 2-run double into the gap, but instead it shows James Loney smacking a double down the line to the opposite field. “And that’s what Manny does, he influences every hitter in the lineup to use the whole field…” or some garbage like that.

Braves 2009 offense: in play, out(s)
Braves 2009 bullpen: in play, run(s)

by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 23, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions

Leo had three HoFers who (until 98 or 99) never missed a start.

Don’t disagree, although there might be some causation there, especially on the health side. Leo’s throwing program in particular.

Formerly Uncle Charlie of Minor League Ball

by Yakker on Apr 23, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Just wanted to say...

…he is a really great guy. I met him last year, and I was impressed with his demeanor. He is also one of those guys who is very active in the community, and I get the impression he would be even if no one was looking.

Before you tell me that has nothing to do with him being on the team, I already know that. I, however, happen to agree with gondee that they seemed to give up on him a little too quickly.

by sddbaker on Apr 22, 2009 5:11 PM EDT reply actions

I think the thing with the Braves is that they now have so much pitching depth in their minors no one in the bigs can really afford to not be productive because there is a replacement for each and everyone of them almost. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if the Braves cut Hudson/didnt pick up his option. Either that or in the offseason trade Derek Lowe to a team desperate for starting pitching.

Next year i wouldnt mind fielding a rotation of

Vazquez
Jurrjens
Kawakami
Hanson
Medlen

by drumzalicious on Apr 23, 2009 12:50 AM EDT reply actions

Style

As a coach, as a teacher, as a manager of pitchers – McDowell’s should be flexible enough to help develop young pitchers and support veterans. As Pete Rose once put it …. You have three guys on bench. One you have to encourage, one you have to kick in the butt, and one you just need to leave alone. Managing is know what to do with each of those players.

I miss Leo. Bring Leo back.

by ChillyMutt on Apr 23, 2009 1:10 PM EDT reply actions

As Pete Rose once put it …. You have three guys on bench. One you have to encourage, one you have to kick in the butt, and one you just need to leave alone. Managing is know what to do with each of those players.

Nice quote.

Braves 2009 offense: in play, out(s)
Braves 2009 bullpen: in play, run(s)

by Smoltz's Beard on Apr 23, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions