Why did we sign Glavine again?????
by That a boy on Mar 8, 2009 6:30 PM EDT
51 comments
This is a question I am sure all of my fellow Braves fans are asking at this point after watching a few of our young pitchers go out there and impress even more then they already have. First, Jo Jo is dominating and I am willing to bet he is ten times better then Glavine right now. Hanson is WOW I mean really that is all you can say about that kid. He is a gem, and he could come to the majors and turn some heads right now. I am upset that we gave Glavine money when our starting rotation did not need him. We needed that LOOGY, and I could care less if some of you want to see Glavine retire as a Brave thats what we got Chipper for. Did you guys see Javy Vazquez in the WBC dammit we got a good rotation!!!
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“Jo-Jo is dominating…”
- Not really. He’s pitching well, mostly wiggling out of tough spots, but not dominating. He dominated in AAA for the past couple seasons and he sucks a cock at the major league level. This is what he’s done for the past couple of seasons, if you haven’t been paying attention: he’ll pitch darn good enough to make you think he’s ready and then proceeds to do nothing but lay eggs when it matters.
“Hanson is WOW I mean really that is all you can say about that kid.”
- I haven’t said “WOW” and I can a lot of other things about him. He looks like he’s going to be damn good but nothing he’s done has said to me that he is unequivocally ready for the major leagues. Let him rip AAA batters to shreds and then he’ll have nothing left to prove in the minor leagues.
“We needed that LOOGY…”
- We’ve got LOOGYs in camp already: Boone Logan and Eric O’Flaherty. From all accounts, the Braves are high on Logan.
“Did you guys see Javy Vazquez in the WBC dammit we got a good rotation!!!”
- You’re all over the place, man. You start out ranting about Glavine and this is your ending line?
Yawn.
Oh, Bobby.
by sdp on Mar 8, 2009 6:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
^^^^^^
So seven strikeouts against a pretty good phills lineup doesnt make you say wow. Hmmm and a 1.00 era from jojo isnt good hmmm. I think you are an idiot simply put. And i said that about Javy just to say our starting rotation needed no help, and we didnt need Glavine. Obviously you missed that one.
by That a boy on Mar 8, 2009 7:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
first off he’s not an idiot… or at least we have little evidence to suppose the fact… second while JoJo has 7 Ks he also has 8 BBs in 10 innings… which isnt exactly dominating…
SDP comment on Javy was just that u are complaining about hte Glavine signing (whihc by the way isnt exactly news worthy) and finished with a comment about Javy Vazquez… i can understand that u meant our rotation is good and we dont need Glavine, but dont leave us without the connection.
And to the idiot point again… how come you ignore his other objections… like the fact that we dont need a LOOGY and the fact that while Hanson is good he obviously needs more time because his command and control just isnt ready yet.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Mar 8, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was Hanson with the 7 strikeouts not Jo Jo. We do need a Loogy I would much rather have one that had an era of 2.00 against lefties last year than Logan who had a 5.95 era coming out of the pen last year, and Eric what ever his name is who had a 20.25 era last year.The money would have been better spent on Ohman than Glavinie. If you are fine with that you are an idiot I don’t need evidence. We are going to be facing Howard, Utley, Delgado with Logan and Eric o shit were in trouble. And I didnt want to leave a connection it was a statement.
by That a boy on Mar 8, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe
he wasnt referring to today’s game, but ST as a whole – 7 Ks for JoJo and 8 BBs.
The fact that you are quoting ERAs alone to support your arguments make YOU look like the idiot here, not swo or sdp. Logan had an incredible start to last years season, but had a horrible second half. He is a really good pitcher. I would rather have the pitcher who can give you similar (read: good enough) production for very cheap, than the pitcher who can give you good production for a lot of money.
If you don’t even care about these guys to look at what they are doing in spring training (very well, by the way), then you are nothing more than a passive baseball fan.
that’s right…i am challenging your fanhood. Do you see my barbed-wire tatoo? it goes all the way around…boop, boop, boop….boop.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Mar 8, 2009 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They havent pitched enough innings to judge them in Spring training, and Jo Jo only has 2 Ks I have been watching very closely and who gives a shit about your tattoo!!!
by That a boy on Mar 8, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ur an idiot….
since uve decided to ignore my arguments i have decided to ignore arguing
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Mar 8, 2009 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There was a really good opp for an ‘eldu’ joke in here, but I missed it ’cause I was out of town without a computer. Sad.
by Lizziebeth on Mar 9, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
its never too late for an “eldu” joke….speaking of which was in line, some guy was standing too close to me and i eldued him right in the face.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Mar 9, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you obviously don't watch espn
the fanhood tatoo is a commercial…i dont really have a tatoo. now take a deep breath and go back to your pessimistic outlook on life.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Mar 9, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where the heck are you guys getting your stats?
Reyes has 3 BB and 2 K in 9 ip, to go along with 1 run on 5 hits
His WHIP is .89 and his ERA is 1.00 at the moment..
by Lennox on Mar 9, 2009 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
then i apoligize, i thought i read on this site that he had 8BBs and 7Ks
I am sorry
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Mar 9, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
damn you swo
I assumed you knew what you were talking about!
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Mar 12, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just for reference..
…referring to ERA around here isn’t the greatest of ideas.
by RainDelay on Mar 8, 2009 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why? ERA and wins are easily the best indicators of how good a pitcher really is. Just like batting AVG and RBI tell me how good a hitter is
by yondaime4 on Mar 8, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dont forget about saves
and how they indicate how good a closer is!
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Mar 8, 2009 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, and Holds...
…gotta keep track of Holds.
by RainDelay on Mar 8, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but you need to add whip. if a pitcher has a high whip and a low era then he is really good.
by heapofoatmeal on Mar 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You guys are being sarcastic, BUT
Nothing—AND I MEAN NOTHING—is as important as wins and losses. If there weren’t a winner and a loser, we wouldn’t even watch sports. Just because the starting pitcher often has little to do with the final score of the game, doesn’t mean that his win/loss record isn’t incredibly indicative of his value. I’ll just toss out some examples of guys who pitched very well last year (as evidenced by their winning records), despite having poor “advanced” (the people who think these stats are advanced need to “advance” themselves out of their mom’s basement/attic and get a life) stats:
Vicente Padilla
Livan Hernandez
Jon Garland
Jason Marquis
This is just a taste of the caliber of pitching talent/production that you stat-geeks miss out on, when you focus on superfluous “advanced” stats and not what really matters—WINS AND LOSSES.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
by buzzdeadwax on Mar 9, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why can't computers just play the game?
I don’t want to watch people play baseball. I want to run every single game through a spreadsheet.
Can’t SPSS figure out who wins the World Series?
Ballparks are scary anyway. It’s very unnerving to be around people. It’s why I only have contact with other humans through computers.
by mburris1 on Mar 9, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s really loud outside, too
I'm not not licking toads...
by Smoltz's Beard on Mar 9, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and bright
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Mar 9, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I figured as much
You probably think that starting rotations can be perfectly balanced without any left-handed pitchers. You probably love Adam Dunn, because he also hates the game of baseball.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
by buzzdeadwax on Mar 9, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
two of those players played on teams that would have won with anyone pitching(garland and marquis) one of them played for a team with an extremely potent offense in the most offensive park in the league (padilla) and one of them got released by his team when they were in a playoff chase(hernandez)
no all of these pitchers pitched at a tom jojo reyes type clip last year. they just all happened to be lucky.
by heapofoatmeal on Mar 9, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The point is...
…they won, because they are winners. Here’s how baseball works: if you fill your roster with winners (e.g., people who know how to win; see: Jeter, Derek; Eckstein, David; and Brosius, Scott ), then you will win—which is the whole point of baseball. If you fill your roster with selfish players who hate baseball (e.g., Adam Dunn…f*cking base-clogger), then you will lose.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
by buzzdeadwax on Mar 10, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will continue to look first at a pitcher’s ERA to judge his worth, and a hitters BA to judge his worth. I can come up with formulas all day long to make any major leaguer look like Babe Ruth/Cy Young.
And yes, I’m serious.
by Bobby Cocks on Mar 8, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow..
..here do yourself a favor just read this, Evaluating Pitcher Talent they don’t come up with a bunch of new fangled formulas or anything.
ERA is worthless, it’s too dependent on other factors not under the pitchers control.
by RainDelay on Mar 8, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ERA isn’t worthless, its a decent one look glance to see a pitchers performance. But if you rely on one stat to judge ANY player you’re only kidding yourself.
by soup du jour on Mar 9, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No it’s not. Please…again ERA is dependent on more than just the pitcher. There are other ways to even quickly judge than looking at ERA. I mean, the guy can have a run tagged to him and he’s not even on the field. Did you even read the link?
by RainDelay on Mar 9, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I read it, and its great. I will say that I think ERA has a pretty darn good correlation between whether a pitcher sucks or not, though, even if its terribly flawed. I use it as a quick glance skill. Sure it gets entirely too much significance placed on it, but it still holds value, just as long as you know what you’re looking at.
by soup du jour on Mar 9, 2009 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ERA is not worthless unless it’s early in the season. Maybe you could show some examples, but do you actually think a pitcher with a 1.50 ERA is gonna have terrible peripherals? Or a guy with a 5.00 is really an awesome pitcher with a terrible defense? I’m just not buying it.
by Bobby Cocks on Mar 9, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Get back at me..
…when you take the time to read the link. But I’m pretty sure you wont, but that’s just a gut feeling.
by RainDelay on Mar 9, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually I did read the link. One man’s opinion does not make me change mine.
by Bobby Cocks on Mar 15, 2009 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jo-Jo and Hanson can wait, it’s not like we broke the bank on Glavine.
But I am about ready to press the panic button on FYF. Why couldn’t we get Dunn?
Anyone notice of Pedro’s 3 scoreless innings with 4 Ks in the WBC? I’m starting to think he could end up closing for someone.
by TradeAndruw on Mar 8, 2009 7:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I believe the answer is.
Nostalgia and he was much cheaper than Smoltz. And a little less prideful.
by Perrinbar on Mar 8, 2009 8:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
dingdingding
Your source for blind optimism.
by 10-4 on Mar 9, 2009 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and the answer is...
Do you guys remember what happened last year? Injures ripped a respectable rotation to threads! Having TOMMY around for a measly 1million is great insurance to have! I foresee him ending as a great long-reliever/fill-in starter once that other TOMMY (Hanson) makes it up. Probably around mid-season, oncehe dominates the minors. And, I personnaly love seeing these old-time Braves greats retire in a braves uniform. The team did a great move in my book by signing him!
by Trek on Mar 9, 2009 8:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
no, it was a terrible signing
because we all knew hanson and jojo would have fantastic springs! I mean, who didnt expect this kind of performance from jojo??
And ofc, it’s guaranteed that he will be able to replicate that performance in the regular season…his track record proves that
by Doghnut on Mar 9, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
their performances have little to no correlation to Tom Glavine being a bad signing… it was a bad signing because we could have filled the 5th spot with one of Campillo (who was really good last year and we have reason to beleive his success will continue), Morton, or Parr (probably not advisable to use him but w/e). JoJo and Hanson’s performance have nothing to do wiht Glavine (so in part you are correct)… but the Glavine signing was still a bad one.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Mar 9, 2009 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i am leery to say jojo is having a fantastic spring. he has 8 so and 7 bb. but yes campillio, hanson, morton, reyes, bennett, parr, medlan, and carlyle were all going to produce at a similar level to last years glavine,(4.5 era low ip/start) maybe even better. you may remember the 4.2 ip 80 pitch games last year. the now im hurt, now im not games over the months.
glavine is not making 1 million. he is making 4.5 million as long as he shows up to work for 2 months. and yes i know that the bonuses are deferred, but that doesnt mean that it isnt still money.
his 4.5 million could have gotten us abreu instead of garret anderson or maybe ohman instead of boone logan. that is a sizable increase in production. glavine will spend exactly the bare minimum of time on our 25 man roster to get his cash.
he is at 70% now so he wont e 100% till say april 15th. he will be hurt by may back in june. out in july back in august. the surgery on his shoulder didnt “fix” the problem, it only made it more “manageable” that means he could tough it out if he had a reason to. his only reason to pitch in pain all year long is if we are going wire to wire in 1st place.
by heapofoatmeal on Mar 9, 2009 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once again ...
Where the heck is this 8K/7BB stat for Reyes coming from? He’s got 2K/3BB in 9ip.
by Lennox on Mar 9, 2009 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like how you casually posted “T Hanson’s” stats too to show of that 13.5 K/9
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
by bigjoe on Mar 10, 2009 8:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
in the “most impressive player so far” thread and previously in this thread it was brought up and somehow found itself into my mind as fact. it is obviously wrong in that thread.
by heapofoatmeal on Mar 10, 2009 1:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Tommy Glavine
I agree with you we do not need Tom Glavine, he is over the hill. Time to hang up the glove and ball as well, let’s let the new guy’s get better.Go away Tommy it was nice but your time is up.
robert warren
by bobbywarren95 on Mar 11, 2009 4:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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