Atlanta Braves make third round of spring roster cuts
by gondeee on Mar 26, 2009 4:55 PM EDT
76 comments
From the official press release:
The Atlanta Braves trimmed their spring roster by eight players today, optioning three players and re-assigning five others. Left-handed pitcher Jo-Jo Reyes, catcher Clint Sammons and infielder Diory Hernandez were optioned to Gwinnett (AAA). Right-handed pitcher Tommy Hanson, catcher Alvin Colina, outfielder Jason Heyward and infielders Brandon Hicks and Freddie Freeman were all re-assigned to minor league camp.
Atlanta now has 36 active players remaining in its Major League camp.
That's pretty much all expected. I know some people were hoping Hanson would somehow stick on the opening day roster, but unless we're once again decimated by injuries there's no reason whatsoever to rush him. I still think Jo-Jo might be the first guy called up if there is an injury before the All-Star break.
From here on out the cuts get harder and harder, and most will likely wait until the last day or two. We'll have to see how injury situations to Soriano, Moylan, and Garret Anderson play out as to who makes the roster for the final bullpen spots and left field job. The center field job will also be hotly contested over the next 10 days, with Jordan Schafer seemingly still holding an edge over Josh Anderson and Gregor Blanco. Kevin Goldstein, the new head-honcho now at Baseball Prospectus, had this to pass along about our young prospects:
The Braves have given a number of prospects surprisingly long looks in their camp, with outfielders Jordan Shafer and Jason Heyward, along with first baseman Freddie Freeman, all generating a lot of buzz. Schafer, who could win the big-league center-field job almost by default, has been especially impressive, with one scout stating, "He just looks like he belongs, I'd certainly give him the job." And while Heyward and Freeman are likely heading for High-A, they also have left a strong impression. "They both can really hit," added the scout. "Heyward is especially impressive, as he puts on a show in batting practice, and then that power shows up in games. It's a John Mayberry body with way more athleticism and speed. It's clear on just a short look that he's going to be pretty damned good."
All signs certainly point to Schafer getting the nod, but I still think a lot hinges on whether or not the Braves can find a taker for Blanco and/or Josh Anderson.
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Seemingly?
“with Jordan Schafer seemingly still holding an edge over Josh Anderson and Gregor Blanco”
Jordan Schafer – .383 avg – .425 OBP – 5 SB – excellent defense
Josh Anderson – .269 avg – .283 OBP – 1 SB – mediocre defense
Why is this even a competition anymore?
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Mar 26, 2009 5:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Limited sample size and arbitration clock .
by TradeAndruw on Mar 26, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It will be sad
If that Braves consider that over winning now
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Mar 26, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
word out of Braves camp is that they don’t care so much about Schafer’s clock right now if they think he is ready, but Hanson pretty much had no chance of making the roster.
by yondaime4 on Mar 26, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last year one of the played well at AAA
the other played well in 3 months at AA.
by Lennox on Mar 26, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If playing well equals a .763 OPS as a AAA repeater, with below average defense than yeah, Anderson was awesome.
Even being at a lower level last year, and struggling coming back from the suspension, Schafer’s MLE line was better than Anderson’s.
If you want a Willy Taveras in CF, then Anderson is your guy. If you want a Matt Kemp/Nate McLouth type this year then Schafer is your guy. It’s as simple as that.
Tommy Hanson 4 ROY
by timmy3 on Mar 26, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry timmy.....
…..but if you want Nate McLouth with really solid defense, Schafer is your guy. : P
by bravesfan91 on Mar 26, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
McLouth did win the Gold Glove last year. Not saying he deserved it.
by TradeAndruw on Mar 26, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where do you get this nonsense about below average defense from Anderson? That’s patently untrue.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Mar 26, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The defensive data...
Had him 23 runs below average in CF for Richmond last year in 121 games. Minor league defensive stats are still a bit behind; but when the number is that awful, it’s hard for me to assume he was doing anything good out there. Additionally, his UZR for his time in the majors rates him as below average; albeit with a small sample size. He’s always rated as a fantastic fielder in the corners, but he’s not someone I’d want manning CF everyday.
Tommy Hanson 4 ROY
by timmy3 on Mar 27, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The defensive data...
is ridiculously flawed. I haven’t found anything yet to make me believe they’ve found a reasonable way to apply statistics to defense. I don’t see how anyone could watch Anderson play in the outfield and find him lacking. If all you guys are going on is the highly flawed metrics, then I feel for you.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Mar 27, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was a huge fan of his
when he was with Houston…his D is what attracts me to him. There is nothing “average or below average” about it. He is good.
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stewart Mill-
by justincredubil02 on Mar 27, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, you must have watched a baseball game before!
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Mar 27, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
a time or two.
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stewart Mill-
by justincredubil02 on Mar 27, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is this “watching”? I only read stats, I’m also a fan of jersey color (but only descripted in text).
...catsports...
by bwellnjonesco on Mar 27, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Regardless of the numbers
I prefer Anderson in CF over Blanco. Blanco’s tendency to take some really bizzare and horrible routes to the ball leave me scratching my head very often. I also think Anderson’s slightly superior speed and from what I’ve witnessed, he’s got a better-suited arm for CF than Blanco does.
But this is Anderson vs. Blanco. Now Anderson vs. Schafer, I have to give the nod to Schafer, and I hope he has pushed the envelope hard enough to make the organization not look at the finances and plans, and start whom is the more suitable player.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
by royhobbs on Mar 27, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
cbwilk
haven’t you heard man? Everybody uses stats when evaluating players. But anyway i look at stats when lookin at a player BUT there is just more to baseball than stats but sad thing is if you dont have the right stats then your no good. Its all about stats to some people but stats only tell you one thing about a player. You need more than stats when evaluating players. I like to watch a player and see how he does also, not just rely on stats. (hmm….. i expect stat heads to jump all over me about this now).
braves#1
by rockybull on Mar 27, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, you should be ok
some of us have already fought this battle…I think we ended up just agreeing to disagree.
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stewart Mill-
by justincredubil02 on Mar 27, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not going to jump all over you… But I would like to say the assumption that they assumption that people who make a lot of stats-based arguments don’t watch the games is terribly flawed. Just because someone’s making a argument based on stats doesn’t mean that don’t sit down and watch the game every night. As one of the few fans that stuck around and still enjoyed watching the Braves in August/Sept. I take some offense to this perception, that just because I enjoy working with numbers, I somehow don’t understand how the game works. If anything, the stats generally reflect what I already know from watching the games (especially regarding the Braves).
And there’s some instances where you have to throw the stats away. Look at Morton last year, for example. His ERA sucked, and while he didn’t pitch awesome, he pitched a lot better than the numbers showed. Charlie got left out on the hook by the umps, the defense and the bullpen all on multiple occasions. Of course the injury hurt him towards the end, but watching him, I saw a much more effective pitcher than the numbers would suggest.
Tommy Hanson 4 ROY
by timmy3 on Mar 27, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
its like bowling
someone could have a 290 and someone else could have a 260 even though they threw the exact same amount of strikes. The only difference is that one they missed.
I was throwing the ball horribly the other night and still had one of my highest series scores (481 for those of you who are wondering). I have thrown the ball very well, but ended up with bad games – just because of how the pins broke.
Stats can be very misleading.
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stewart Mill-
by justincredubil02 on Mar 27, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you seriously trying to compare baseball stats to bowling stats?
by Smoltz's Beard on Mar 27, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not compare...
more of a correlation than a comparison.
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stewart Mill-
by justincredubil02 on Mar 27, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just don’t see how it works on any level. Bowling stats are incredibly small sample sizes, MLB seasons are not. MLB stats are also FAR more advanced.
by Smoltz's Beard on Mar 27, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not in this context
we are talking about schafer v anderson – a very small sample size.
I am simply pointing out that while stats are certainly helpful, and even usually accurate, they can be misleading and should not be taken as gold every time.
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stewart Mill-
by justincredubil02 on Mar 27, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There’s too many people that really just don’t have a fucking clue what they’re talking about and they use the “there’s more than just stats” excuse to prevent themselves from ever having to enter into a critical discussion.
by Smoltz's Beard on Mar 27, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
whoah
i think i know what im talkin about for the most part on baseball. Do i know everything about baseball? of course not but actin like stats tells everything about a player is foolish JUST like sayin stats dont mean nothin is foolish also. ALL im sayin is i think there is more to baseball than stats.
braves#1
by rockybull on Mar 27, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn’t taking specifically about you.
by Smoltz's Beard on Mar 27, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
timmy
didn’t mean to offend nobody. But there are some people that sit there and watch hardly no games and sees the stats and thinks they know all about the players. Of course there are alot of people that watches every game and still uses stats to tell exactly how good the player is.
braves#1
by rockybull on Mar 27, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Schafer is obviously a better player long term
But he’s played 3 months above A ball. Is it really that hard to see why a team would want to start him in AAA for a reason other than “arbitration clock” and “out of options”?
by Lennox on Mar 26, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno if the point here is if schafer is ‘ready’ for the majors yet. If he is or is not really is moot because he is close to being ready. The point is can Anderson/Blanco provide a better option offensively than Schafer can. If they can’t, Schafer’s defense is better and he is probably a little cheaper.
So if they can provide something more, then sure leave him at AAA and let his Arbitration clock start later. AAA isn’t a necessity to prove you belong in the big leagues and it really is just a roster haven anymore for organizational players and the remaining 15 guys on the 40 man.
by yondaime4 on Mar 26, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Medlen still being active is very surprising to me. But hey, more power to him.
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
by bigjoe on Mar 26, 2009 5:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Jesus Christ, is this so hard?
1. Schafer gets the job.
2. Keep Blanco
3. Move Anderson
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Mar 26, 2009 5:32 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Yep
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
by Zeus12888 on Mar 26, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chip Caray agrees as well.
Let’s hope to God that’s what goes down. Hopefully these people “in the know” share this consensus.
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Mar 26, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Schafer getting the job would have to be done that way, because moving Blanco while still giving Schafer the job could lead to also losing Anderson to waivers, which leads to no back up plan if Schafer fails. And now i’ve gone crosseyed.
Your source for blind optimism.
by 10-4 on Mar 27, 2009 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chief, Maybe moving Anderson is the hard part.
by Tokyokie on Mar 26, 2009 5:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Which sucks.
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Mar 26, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then put him on waivers. He can’t draw a walk, isn’t a great CF defender, and has been incredibly lucky as far as his offense is concerned. We shouldn’t be that worried about a corner-OF defensive replacement/pinch-runner.
by bravesfan91 on Mar 26, 2009 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, where does this nonsense about his defense come from? I’m baffled. Baffled!
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Mar 26, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Josh Andersons UZR in the majors
-.7
Arm runs
-1.7
Range runs
1.1
Error runs
-.1
UZR per 150 games played
-1.5
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Mar 26, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
UZR per 150 games played
is actually -3.5
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Mar 26, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ATL v. Houston
His defense was horrible in Houston (-36.6 runs below average). He was 14ish runs above average for the Bravos last year (w/ a much larger sample size).
"He's getting better, but he's not there yet ..."
- Bobby Cox (talking about Boyer)
by FrankyWren on Mar 26, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As long as we're having fun with small sample sizes ...
His career hitting numbers are .315/.364/.419. With an 85% success rate on stolen bases.
by Lennox on Mar 26, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Mar 26, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
just couldn’t pass up the opp to post pics…
by Lizziebeth on Mar 27, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh dont worry
His defense in the large sample size of the minors wasnt much better.
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Mar 27, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Basis?
… where are you getting that info? What stats are you basing that conclusion on?
"He's getting better, but he's not there yet ..."
- Bobby Cox (talking about Boyer)
by FrankyWren on Mar 27, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve pretty much decided that defensive metrics are silly at best, useless at worst. So unless you’ve actually watched the kid play enough to make that statement, and I think if you’ve watched him much you’d know you couldn’t, I’m gonna need some other evidence.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Mar 26, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
I’ve seen him make some great plays, but I’ve also seen him get turned around on balls over his head. I’ve seen him take arcing routes to line drives and I have seen him make many weak throws into the infield. He looks better than he is because his speed allows him to make the occasional highlight catch, but he doesnt consistently bring top-tier defense to a team.
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Mar 27, 2009 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There’s a huge difference between “top-tier” defense and “below average” defense.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Mar 27, 2009 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And
there is a big difference between ok defense and top-tier defense. Schafer brings gold-glove play, Anderson does not.
60% of the time, it works every time
by ATLandUNC on Mar 27, 2009 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s not the argument. I would never argue that Anderson is equal to or better than Schafer. The argument is that Anderson is a plus defender and not a weak one, regardless of what UZR says, and you’ve given me nothing to change my stance on that.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Mar 27, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even if the defensive metrics aren't perfect...
When I see a number like -23 for his season in Richmond, I have to raise an eyebrow. There’s a reason why Josh Anderson got 339 ABs playing the corners for Round Rock in 07, and only 153 ABs in CF. And it wasn’t as if anyone was blocking him in center. They were playing guys like Eric Bruntlett and Mike Rodriguez there instead.
Tommy Hanson 4 ROY
by timmy3 on Mar 27, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Using the maneuvers of the Astros, one of the more poorly run minor league systems in the game, holds about as much sway with me as using the metrics.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Mar 27, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Would Juan Castro even be part of our top 25? I kidd, of course, but he definitely wouldn’t be in our top 10…maybe not even top 15…
...catsports...
by bwellnjonesco on Mar 27, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Regardless of if he’s a moderately plus defender, his glove fails to make up for the offensive inadequacies and that’s all that matters.
If we can’t find a suitable trade partner (coughs White Sox cough), I think Anderson belongs on waivers. I simply fail to understand the resurgence of these burners that bring no other positive contributions to the table, while good hitters rot at AAA.
Tommy Hanson 4 ROY
by timmy3 on Mar 27, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you're talking about the Total Zone rating
Jordan Schafer was ranked at -1 in CF, which hardly matches up with his defensive reputation. So is JS actually a slightly below average fielder?
Anderson, the previous year was ranked as a +43 in RF. Even allowing for there being differences between CF and the corners, IMO, there’s no logical explanation for that big of a discrepancy from year to year.
Even the guy who put the rankings together questions it’s effectiveness at rating OFers, due to the quality of data available for minor league games and other factors.
by Lennox on Mar 27, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BOOM! Well done.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Mar 27, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now if only he could hit.
Tommy Hanson 4 ROY
by timmy3 on Mar 27, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank god
They optioned that error machine Diory. If he’d been a backup infielder, I wouldve been sick.
by Zeus12888 on Mar 26, 2009 6:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Schafer SHOULD be the Brave’s starting center fielder on opening night. He’s played great while Anderson’s play been nothing more than ok.
by ChipperTeixeira89 on Mar 26, 2009 10:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Schafer, etc.
I haven’t had a chance to see how good this kid is because I live in Austin so I don’t get a whole lot in terms of Braves coverage yet. But if he is as good as I hear he is, I hope he gets the CF job. I’m excited to see what a good (relatively) young baseball team can do. Hopefully some of these guys will be wearing Braves jerseys a long time. I’m ready for the season to start.
by Hibbleton on Mar 26, 2009 11:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
great name.
Your source for blind optimism.
by 10-4 on Mar 27, 2009 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We could be in for a repeat of Brayan Pena 2008, where a player who is out of options makes the team and has no actual role. Also see Gotay, Ruben, or Orr, Pete. The Braves have a hard time letting go of out of options guys. At least they manned up with Thorman last year. I guess Anderson could pinch run.
Your source for blind optimism.
by 10-4 on Mar 27, 2009 9:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pretty sure Gotay led the leage in pinch hits last season.
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
by bigjoe on Mar 27, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also pretty sure Brayan Pena was hitting .286 as a pinch hitter when they got rid of him and would probably have thrived off the bench if he had stayed.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Mar 27, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotay was extremely valuable in his role last season.
by Smoltz's Beard on Mar 27, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, couldn’t spare twenty seconds. Yes, they pinch hit some, but what i was getting at is that one was a third catcher, and the other was a thrid backup infileder. Not gonna see too much PT on the field that way.
Advertise here!
by 10-4 on Mar 27, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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