Braves offer contract to Glavine
by jack dein on Feb 6, 2009 8:34 PM EST
88 comments
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090206&content_id=3805792&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp&partnerId=rss_mlb
The offer is for one year and between $1-2 million. There is also no incentives in this deal.
I have no problem with this as this would make him the 5th starter unless he completely flopped in spring training. I still think that this money could be better spent on finding a left fielder. This makes it a little less likely that we trade for Swisher unless we can get them to eat some of his salary.
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this is a fine offer and not a complete insult to him, but coming of the DL, he’s 42 what does he expect the Braves to do? I’d like to see him back and either a solid bullpen arm or a #5 starter whatever happens i’m cool with it
GO BRAVES!
by bravesfan1047 on Feb 6, 2009 8:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I mean if he takes the deal, great! Honestly though, if Glavine taking this deal means the ability of us not being able to sign Ohman, then I hope he does not take it. I mean I love ya Glavine, but I need to see the playoffs this year and perhaps more.
by BravesFromTheStart on Feb 6, 2009 9:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
interesting that u mix common sense with an extreme lack of patience and shortsightedness… would it be great to make the playoffs yes, but i certainly dont expect it. We have set ourselves up nicely to be competitive in the future, and i expect us to be playoff contenders in the future. the fact is we play in the division with the WS winner, the Mets (who are good, as much as it pains me to admit) and the Marlins (who continually surprise people with a $12 payroll).
expecting anything more than a 500 season is settin urself up for disappointment. We have gotten better this offseason, but our best offensive player seems capable of only playing 120-130 games. our OF had less than 25 HRs and we havent unupgraded it at all. our Pitching staff got some notable names, but we all know how that could turn south quick.. the same with the pen… I dont want to make it look like im pessimistic, I’m not but realistically we won 72 games last year, to make the playoffs we would need about a 20 win turnaround. Its happened before but its a lot to ask.
"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."
by Swo12bv on Feb 6, 2009 10:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
eh
Why do old, injured players think they’re worth anything, much less more than 2 million? I’d rather Glavine just go peacefully into retirement and we allow Campillo/Morton/Reyes/Hanson to compete for the 5th spot.
by coldriver10 on Feb 6, 2009 10:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you
I don’t think Glavine has anything left in the tank. It would be nice to see him retire this year so that he and Maddox could go into the Hall of Fame together. In 5 years it could be a really crowded class. With Glavine and Maddox along with Jeff Kent who probably isn’t a first ballot hall of famer but maybe, Curt Schilling could retire this year, Kenny Rogers might be done but he is another guy who might not a first ballot hall of famer. It would have been nice to see all three retire and go in together but that won’t happen.
by jack dein on Feb 6, 2009 10:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh
I pray to god he shoots this offer down.
SubParr
by nick9314 on Feb 6, 2009 11:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The Gift and the Curse
Yes, the Braves made what I think a competitive offer for a player who is 42 and is coming off surgery. If Glavine signs, thats great. That just means we beefed up our bullpen with Campillo back where I think he belongs and its giving our rotation a veteran presence. If Glavine doesnt sign, we have enough depth of pithcers to compete for the 5th starter spot. Campillo, Hanson, Morton,etc and it will save us enough money to go after an OF. Either way you go its a positive.
by AlRoBraves95 on Feb 7, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Gift and the Curse cont.....
I would also like to add that if Glavine doesnt sign it gives us more room to re-sign Ohman.
As far as our OF hole, I would like to sign Dunn over Abreu! For many reasons.Dunn is a legimate cleanup hitter (40hrs in the last past 5 years) yes, he strikes out alot but he beefs up our lineup..He’s defense is not great but in a few years you can always move him to first base and trade Kotchman for whatever piece we may need in the future and give way for Heyward.
Abreu is a 3 hole hitter and is defense sucks and is not versatile..Leave him alone and lets get it DUNN
by AlRoBraves95 on Feb 7, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In 891.3 innings at 1B, Adam Dunn’s UZR/150 is -12.5.
His UZR/150 in LF is only -9.9.
Moving him to 1B creates an even bigger problem to deal with.
by mburris1 on Feb 7, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
this is true, but doesnt he have a decling trend in the OF.. as he gets older his mobility will decrease and 1B will be the best place for him.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Feb 7, 2009 6:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
DOB says Braves are no longer pursueing Ohman.
by 10-4 on Feb 8, 2009 8:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Noooooo!!!
I do not want to see this happen. Our starting rotation is set. We need a bat and Ohman, and if we sign Glavine we are going to loose out on one of those two needs. This move just does not make sense to me. I didnt like them giving him 7 or 8 mil. last year. Retire Tommy I love what you have done for this city but retire its about that time.
by That a boy on Feb 6, 2009 11:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
if it is set,
who is our 5th starter?
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 7, 2009 9:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not for sure though
it is a wide open race between 4 or 5 guys.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 7, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You say that like Glavine is somehow the be all and end all upgrade.
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
by bigjoe on Feb 7, 2009 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
really?
i thought i said it like it was more of a competition and may the best man win…be it Glavine or Hanson or Campillo…or Reyes. I dont think I have ever said that Glavine is better than anyone fighting for that 5th spot. If I have…please remind me.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 7, 2009 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Glavine isn’t going to throw up some sort of 16-8 3.70 season, and we all know this. So why PAY him millions of dollars to do something that one of the other guys can do just as well.
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
by bigjoe on Feb 7, 2009 6:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
why not give him a chance to prove he cant
let them go to Spring Training…if he is not the best, fine. dont have him in the rotation. If he is the best, then he deserves to be in. simple as that. $2M isnt that much in terms of our payroll. It is obvious we arent going to sign Dunn or Abreau, and if the rumors about Ohman are true, we wont be able to afford him/willing to pay him that much anyway. no harm no foul here.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 7, 2009 6:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, we’ve already established our bullpen is full. And no matter if he makes the rotation or not, sucks or not, he’s getting paid $2 million. Why not give that money to someone who doesn’t have a likelihood of sucking?
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
by bigjoe on Feb 7, 2009 7:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
like who?
knowing that Dunn and Abreau are not options at this point (according to the front office), who out there can we just throw $2M at that could help us in any way?
Again, $2M isn’t a whole lot of money in the grand scheme of things, and it doesnt hurt to have another SP in the mix. Why are you so against giving him a chance?
Geez, you guys are hating on people for things that havent even happened yet. Like the thread where someone was busting Cox’s balls for playing andruw too much this coming season…
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 7, 2009 8:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ya that was bad the Andruw thing… but we could easily drop the $2m on Ohman and call it a day. our pen would officially be nasty… all we are syaing is while pitching depth is good adding pitchers like glavine for the sake of depth is nonsensical.
And you cant be so ignorant to think that if we sign Glavine he wont be our 5th starter… its gonna happen, no matter how bad he sucks… Bobby backs his players (its a good and bad thing) i.e. Francoeur played in over 150 games last year
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Feb 7, 2009 8:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Besides, didn’t we do the “depth for the sake of depth” thing last year with Dessens, DeSalvo, Lopez, et al? That worked out real well.
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
by bigjoe on Feb 7, 2009 9:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Like, instead of offering Adam Dunn $7 million and Glavine $2 million, we offer Dunn $9 million. Not exactly calculus here.
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
by bigjoe on Feb 7, 2009 9:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
except
we wont even offer dunn 1 million…for some reason, the atlanta front office isnt chasing him. so, saying we could offer Dunn more is irrelevant. The way i am looking at it is we either spend the money on glavine or dont spend it at all. we have already made ohman an offer, and if the rumors of his offer from other teams are true, we wont go that high (2 yr/8m). so why not give it to tg and see if he will be anything like he was in 07. depth for depth’s sake is one thing, but depth with quality (for a 5 spot) is something totally different.
to say “we tried the depth thing before and it didnt work” is one of the stupidest things that i have ever heard. so because the guys we had “depth” with last year didnt work, we should never attempt to have depth again??? Glavine was our #3 pitcher last year, even with all of that “depth”. now, he will be fighting for a 5th roster spot. i would say that that has not only improved our depth, but also the quality of that depth.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 7, 2009 11:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We’re not chasing Dunn because his price tag is too high.
by mattdiaz4life on Feb 8, 2009 1:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i dont think anyone is arguing that it would be nice to have glavine if we had an unlimited amount of money. But by all accounts we are strapped for cash… it makes sense to keep the money, and either spend it for Ohman (if we are in fact interested) or on an OF bat, or if we dont want to do that we put the money in our pocket so if we are in the chase near the deadline we have some extra cahs to make the trade to put us over the top.
I would love to have Glavine, but i feel the $2M can be better spent, especially in these tough economic times (one of my favorite phrases)
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Feb 8, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if we are in the middle of a chase at the deadline
i cant imagine that 2m will be a deal breaker in terms of who we go after. We obviously arent pursuing Dunn or Abreau, and have evidently given up on ohman. this 2m is chump change that we will either spend on glavine or nobody at all. unless we are planning on trading for someone big that hasnt been mentioned yet, the 2m will just sit in the bank.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 8, 2009 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thats one of the stupidest things you’ve ever heard? Yeesh…
Why should we pay money for another sub-league average pitcher to BATTLE FOR A ROSTER SPOT when we have guys 20 years younger that will do roughly the same thing with actual room for improvement for less money?
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
by bigjoe on Feb 8, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
because you dont know
that they will do the same thing as he will, or that he will be below league average. that is why you bring him to ST and see what he has left. if it isnt enough, no loss (except for 2M, but i have already addressed that 2m isnt that much money). if he is great, he will be better than those guys.
no harm no foul. unless you can PROVE what glavine will do this coming season, you have no grounds for your argument other than your personal opinion. unless you have some nostradomus like ability, you dont know what glavine can/will do. spring training is where he can show us.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 8, 2009 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t understand why you have blinders on to last season. Glavine was awful. Awful. He doesn’t have anything left. You don’t need to bring him to ST to see that. Just watch video of any game last year. Burning 2 million on a guy you know is done isn’t smart.
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Feb 8, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
last year...
you mean, the year he was hurt? he just had surgery…let’s give him a chance to see if it helped before we throw him on the shelf.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 8, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So was he hurt in 2007 too, when he threw up ERAs of over 5 3 months of the year?
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
by bigjoe on Feb 8, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the same year
he led NL lefties in quality starts?
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 8, 2009 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Brad Penny was second in the league in quality starts. Argument nullified.
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
by bigjoe on Feb 8, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
brad penny just got signed for $5M
arguement re-nullified.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 8, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Boston gave John Smoltz that much money.
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
by bigjoe on Feb 8, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and smoltz is still a good pitcher.
i fail to see your point here.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 8, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You’re choosing not to. You’re choosing to look at the information that supports your argument in a vacuum. Just because other teams gave bad contracts to bad/washed up pitchers, doesn’t mean the Braves should. Both Boston and Chicago have more financial resources than the Braves.
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Feb 8, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am not choosing not to do anything
i am not saying that we should offer glavine 5M. I am saying that it doesnt hurt to give him a small contract (less than 2M) and see how he turned out after his surgery. I think it is a great risk/reward situation for relatively cheap. Evidently, FW agrees with me, as he has offered Glavine a small contract for him to take or leave. If he takes, lets see how ST goes…if he leaves, no harm done.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 8, 2009 7:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
“I am not choosing not to do anything”
nothing like a degree from the University of South Florida
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Feb 8, 2009 7:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
eh, it makes sense
i should have typed it like this though:
I am not “choosing not to” see anything.
touche’ justin.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 8, 2009 8:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah..
..and using “Quality Starts” as a gauge isn’t helping your argument.
by RainDelay on Feb 8, 2009 9:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair, I think I used that earlier in this thread to compare “shitty pitcher to shitty pitcher”
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
by bigjoe on Feb 8, 2009 9:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
why wouldnt a stat
that indicates a pitcher gets his team to the 7th inning while giving them a chance to win the game (giving up less than 3 runs) indicate that the pitcher has done well?
please explain to me why qs isnt a good stat to indicate a how good a pitcher is.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 9, 2009 12:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
namely that u can get a QS for a 4.5 ERA
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Feb 9, 2009 12:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
but if ERA is not a good stat
then how can you rely on ERA to make QS invalid? Call me crazy, but anytime a pitcher only gives up 3 runs in 6+ innings, I am satisfied.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 9, 2009 9:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
in 6 + is fine but 3 runs in 6 innings and leaves… thats not exactly a good start..IMHO
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Feb 9, 2009 10:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'd take it.
especially compared to what we had last year!
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 9, 2009 11:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s more a testament to how shitty our pitching was last year than a glowing review of Quality Starts.
I'll handle u in spring training - phil413
by mattdiaz4life on Feb 9, 2009 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
oh, and someone who puts up those stats
would get paid more than $2M.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 7, 2009 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For $1-2MM, I think it works. We’d be cutting it close, but it still leaves room for a bat and for Ohman. I’d sure rather have Dunn, but Abreu looks like the best financial fit these days.
by FineHamAbounds on Feb 7, 2009 12:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
my father in law, a giants fan, jokes about trading zito and rowand to us for x,y,z. i countered with the giants doing us a favor and signing glavine and andrew jones. these guys are going to suck, and worse yet bobby will trott them out all season long.
by heapofoatmeal on Feb 7, 2009 4:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
let's sign andruw first
before we talk about how much bobby will use him this year.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 7, 2009 9:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would’nt mind giving Andrew another shot with the Braves becuase we can use Anderson or Blaco to room the OF if he flops but remember, that will mean we have to make room for him to the 40man roster and he’s also looking for a figure in the millions i assume. I like Andrew, he brings alot o the table, defense, most importanly, but he’s also coming off an injury. His body is beaten up from all those great plays he’s made for us. Its a tough decision. If I hade to decided, I will take him if the price is right, if not, I wouldn t mind Anderson leading off and playing the CF….
by AlRoBraves95 on Feb 7, 2009 10:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Glavine has earned the chance to play again. This offer is in line with the market and his recent arm troubles, imo
by kalesi on Feb 7, 2009 8:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Not bad at all. Depth and good defense gives you a chance for the playoffs every year.
If he excepts then we have depth in our rotation and depth in the bullpen when Campillo ends up in the bullpen. We have tons of trade bait to pick up the right OF for our needs. When spring training gets under way we will decipher a definitive answer on what we need to do for OF if anything at all.
We still have money for Ohman so that just increases our depth even more if he signs.
I’m sorry but Lowe, Vazquez, Kenshin, JJ, Glavine, Morton, Reyes, Campillo is damn good depth and keeps Hanson arbitration years back.
Gonzalez, Soriano, Ohman, Acosta, Boyer, Moylan, Bennett, Campillo, Logan, Caryle, O’Flat, and everyone else is a solid and deep bullpen.
If our OF options struggle hitting in spring training then once again we have the bait to make a trade. Wren has done a good job considering the FA market, needs, and stock piling talent to pull the trigger when a trade opp does occur.
by Charmin519 on Feb 7, 2009 11:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn’t it work out a little better to throw that 1-2 million on top of Ohman/Dunn’s contract offer instead of adding a fifth guy to the 5th starter sweepstakes?
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
by bigjoe on Feb 7, 2009 6:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
we could use that million to sign Corey Patterson and have a all out brawl for least effective OF
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Feb 7, 2009 6:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Glavine doesn't make the No.5 spot could he be our Loogy?
We just stopped talking to Ohman so obviously Cox either really wants Glavine back or he’s confident in what we have for a loogy. Right? Perspective anyone? I know Glavine will want to start but is it possible that Wren and Cox have inquired to Glavine on starting and if that’s doesn’t work out Loogy?
by Charmin519 on Feb 8, 2009 11:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOOGYs normally have splits that are more drastic than 2 points of OPS
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
by bigjoe on Feb 8, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
can't we now just throw Ohman's contact on top of the 7 million now?
Glavine can serve as a No. 5 guy, bullpen help, and clubhouse leader. I think he brings more than Ohman at about the same price. You get your Dunn type money and Cox get’s one of his son’s back. Wren has a win win.
by Charmin519 on Feb 8, 2009 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How in the name of god does a 43 year old pitcher who’s amount of quality starts last year was lower than his ERA present an upgrade over the team pitching leader in games who threw up an above average ERA?
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
by bigjoe on Feb 8, 2009 11:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
First Ohman is replaceable and we have depth in the bullpen. Don’t give me bullshit about not having a Loogy because we have all of spring training to see who fills that role.
Statistically speaking you are right about Glavine and Ohman but you are young apparently because politics play a vital role in any type of organization and Cox had a hand in Glavines contract and lack of for Ohman. If you don’t see that then you then it’s apparent you have never been in a decision making role for any type of industry medium.
I understand your lack of faith in Glavine and I have my own but not to your extent. Glavine will serve his role if he excepts the contact. Many braves fan that aren’t as formula inclined as you will appreciate the last contract given to Glavine. Since there are far greater amount of fans that don’t put the same analysis as you and others so people will hold more weight in ticket sales. Not everything is a fucking formula in regards to players. The bigger picture formula is how to derive revenue with the probability of the braves not making the playoffs. Glavine’s percentage of the braves competing this year or not is very small. This is PR with the clubhouse and majority of fans.
Decisions are not as black and white as you make them seem. I appreciate your evaluation and it’s correct in regards to players projected performance but you once again don’t look at the big picture. There is more to a MLB club than it’s record. It’s a brand that has many decipherable factors that lead to the team on the field.
Once again your proposed idea of throwing Glavine’s contract to Dunn can now be accomplished with Ohman’s contract because undoubtedly Ohmans contract was of the same value or more. Obviously, Ohman is replaceable or we would have not took our low offer off the table. The glavine example was merely and idea and a unique perception to possibilities of Glavines return.
by Charmin519 on Feb 8, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For so many words, I don’t think you made one single solitary point aside from “you didn’t agree with me, so I don’t like you”
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
by bigjoe on Feb 8, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The point is Glavine's projected performance is not the point of the contract.
First, I like you fine. You obviously have a good knowledge of what your saying. I’m not to keen on your asshole demeanor all the time but I’m an asshole myself so I understand it.
Second, here is my point.
Wren did not sign Smoltz and there was a backlash. If the braves struggle next year and if Smoltz serves any type of role with Boston he will have increased scrutiny on his decisions this off season.
If Wren signs Glavines inexpensive contract (witch will have no factor in the braves playoff hopes) he will reduce this scrutiny even if the braves blow ass and smoltz wins the cy young.
Why? Chipper believes that Wren is not a cold calculating GM because he took care of his own. This will go aways with many players in the clubhouse. Wren can easily say Smoltz asked for to much money and we truly wanted him but him leaving was not because of us pushing him out. See I signed Glavine. Chipper gportraying his optimistic attitude to the clubhouse has positive affect on managers and players. PR
Fans will appreciate this as well if they are not as inclined as you. You must agree that fans similar to you are the minority in filling seats? Ohman or Glavine signing does will not make a factor on seat sales but the overall perception of the executive office will.
I’m just saying that not every decision is statistics alone. For example:
Mark T. to NYY this year. Yes he is a great player and will be worth the contract for the next 4-5 years. His contract will be hard to trade once he starts his decline. Why did they sign all of these names this year? yes they want the playoffs but they have a new house that is so fucking expensive. They have massive amounts of seats and the economy is shit and all forecasters agree that your looking at 2010 for a momentum shift. The yankees want and need there stadium to be a packed house all season long. Mark T. , A Rod (last year), CC, and AJ were investments that happen to give them a good chance to the playoffs.
I guarantee you Boras sold the idea that A-Rod would be chasing the HR record in there new house and his marketability will produce $$$$$$$$ for you that no other player can. Boras did the same with Mark T.
by Charmin519 on Feb 8, 2009 1:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Glavine will factor in the Braves’ playoff hopes if he blows and pitches instead of better options available to us.
Wren will certainly still face scrutiny if this is the case and Smoltz tears it up with Boston. How does he not? Because his players like him? Most fans think winning games is more important than PR.
Fans come to see winning baseball, plain and simple. Whether or not Ohman and Glavine put fans in the seats is determined by their ability to help us win ballgames.
The Yankees likely would not have been hard-pressed to fill seats in the new stadium, even without their free-agent acquisitions this year. Those acquisitions were made to the end of trotting out a winning baseball team…which fans will pay to see. I fail to see how statistics (those of the players acquired, or the team’s overall record) do not play a factor in these signings.
by mattdiaz4life on Feb 8, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
1) Glavine will not have an impact and if he does blow then Morton, Reyes, Campillo whomever will get there chance.
2) Winning games is important but when the difference between Glavine’s potential wins is weighed against Morton’s/Reyes/Campillo potential wins then your not talking that much of a difference. So once again PR is a factor. Wren will get heat if Smoltz is awesome but the degree of heat will be less with the addition of Glavine and he can wipe his hands completely free of all past stars (except for chipper) next year. The young crop is coming and this was the easiest way Wren could break up without a huge backlash and jeopardizing his job. Breakups are messy that’s why there is definately many motives with the recent activity of Wren.
3)A-Rod and Tex were not signed just for there potential and if you believe that then you don’t what I’m talking about. The yankees would have had a winning team in any case. New York is one of the biggest hit sectors with unemployment and higher living cost with the economy. Almost the entire financial sector is based out of NY and thousands upon thousands of high paying jobs were wiped.
They may or may not sell out each and every game. I’m sure the begining of the season would sell out no matter what the case. But these additions increases the likely hood that demand stays extremely high Whether their winning or not . The yankess have establish one of the most recognized brands in the world and they are making sure they stay there by signing high profile super stars that any baseball fan would love to see in there new stadium. If the yankees signed say Perez, Lowe, Dunn, and Wolf (not bad offseason) they lose marketability. If they start losing they start losing revenue from merchandise sales, 3rd and 4th level seating revenue, parking, food services, programs, etc….. It lowers the value of the air time commercials on their new tv network.
It’s like a stock. If shareholders see what they like they will invest more. If the outlook looks good they will increase value and continue to encourage new investors. If they don’t make a splash it affects the value before they even play a game. The yankees are a “brand” and that is the overall goal of any MLB organization. WS are the fastest way to establish this brand.
You guys are not getting the branding concept I’m talking about. Wren has made the proper additions to compete, he has reduced the level of skepticism on Smoltz, he has protected the Braves Brand no matter what the outcome of this season. What is the braves brand?
Takes care of their own past, present, and future and has a keen high for prospects. Development abilities enable to provide positional depth and increase youth attractiveness to the organization.
by Charmin519 on Feb 8, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You type so much and say so little…
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
by bigjoe on Feb 8, 2009 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually I address each point Diaz made and also elaborate on the underlining variables in the recent moves.
Sorry not everything is ERA, OBP, BA,etc….. I’m afraid even a young BA undergrad wouldn’t get the business acronyms. I’m sure you know what a BRAND is Joe. If your any type of BA undergrad you fully understand my point especially if your into marketing.
Sorry to break it to you but stats and smart ass remarks will not build credibility in this discussion. The big boys like wren pay the little ones to crank out stats so they can develop their business plan and POA for the overall development of sustainability in a economical declined market that threatens the overall PM that Liberty expects from this particular entity within their umbrella.
by Charmin519 on Feb 8, 2009 7:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I seriously don’t think 5,000 more fans are going to come to a game if Tom Glavine is on the team, compared to Will Ohman.
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
by bigjoe on Feb 8, 2009 7:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Way over your head bud. Till we meet again.
by Charmin519 on Feb 8, 2009 8:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Frank Wren’s job isn’t marketing. Frank Wren’s job is “build a winning baseball team”. You’re one of those people that thinks the Johjima extension was a good move because it made the Japanese fans happy, right?
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
by bigjoe on Feb 8, 2009 8:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you think Wren is anything more than a puppet then your off base.
One of those people? You always got something to say Joe. You know for someone who dishes it out you can’t take even take the slightest difference in opinion. You don’t think that John as the president looks at things a little differently now and relays, suggests, implies, or tells Wren? Have you ever even spoken to a president, cfo, coo, ceo? I realized that you didn’t know what I was talking about so I was content with just moving on. I’m not going to give you a course in branding a franchise within any medium much less the complex sports industry.
Your sarcasm is nothing more than an attempt to discredit my ideology by making insinuations on what I think rather than what I know. My friend you know much more than me in regards to analyzing player value but I know much more than you in regards to running a 100+ million company. I’m talking about something completely different and we were never on the same page. Let’s just leave it at that.
By the way: Johjima will always be on his knees.
by Charmin519 on Feb 8, 2009 8:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Alright, whatever you say. Arguing with you is like punching myself in the face with a brick.
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
by bigjoe on Feb 8, 2009 8:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The feeling is mutual
I think this is the first thing we’ve ever agreed on. If your honestly getting into marketing I have a very close friend in New York City that runs a marketing firm off Park Avenue. You seem like a decent guy so if your interested in entry level type stuff I can make sure your resume get’s in front of the CEO. I’m not gonna refer you (i know nothing about you) but I can make sure he looks at it. When are you graduating?
by Charmin519 on Feb 8, 2009 8:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not getting into marketing, I’ve realized the jobs in the field are essentially low paid sales positions that pay dreck.
Looking to get into middle management for a firm doing god knows what, god knows where. Should be getting out in December assuming the summer and fall schedules coordinate well with what I need. Might tack on a finance/IST minor if the schedule allows it.
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
by bigjoe on Feb 8, 2009 8:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
marketing is sales when you start but don’t do a job search for marketing. You’ll end up selling vacuum cleaners door to door. Nothing wrong with that but I have a hunch that’s not what your looking for. The offer still stands if you change your mind. Marketing is a skill set that if used wisely will make you very rich without doing any real work.
However, if you go the finance route you will always have a job. I have another friend who is a recruiter for Raymond James in St. Petersburg. Because of all the bailouts lately he’s been able to pick up some serious guys from competitor firms but those types of companies are always looking for the new farm system guys.
Offer still stands.
by Charmin519 on Feb 8, 2009 9:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll consider it. I’m still a bit a ways away from attempting to get a real job
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
by bigjoe on Feb 8, 2009 9:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
with a dad like yours, I would be too…
did you say he was single? oh wait, I almost forgot…you know what I really look like. shit.
by Lizziebeth on Feb 8, 2009 10:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Meet me in Florida, and we’ll see what happens. Hahahahahahaha
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
by bigjoe on Feb 8, 2009 10:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I could have just put
O.I.
but I assume that some people don’t know what that means, what it represents, how it occurs, what processes are involved, and how it relates to baseball or Wren’s recent actions. Your right on the length of my post.
by Charmin519 on Feb 8, 2009 7:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you once again Big Joe for your pessimistic evaluation of any idea that did not derive from your highly regarded baseball intellect. I apologize for giving a mere unique perspective into fragile decision among the Braves organization. I’m sure Wren and Selig himself will consult with you for future ideas.
by Charmin519 on Feb 8, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not exactly alone in this matter, champ.
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
by bigjoe on Feb 8, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
will someone please put Glavine out of his misery so this team can move on.
by bravesrbaseball on Feb 8, 2009 12:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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