Ankiel, Ludwick and Cardinals far apart on salaries
Apparently there has been little to no progress between the Cardinals and Rick Ankiel and Ryan Ludwick. As these are two of the most talked about trade targets for the Braves, I got to wondering if this salary discrepancy makes the Cardinals more inclined to trade one of them. I still have this bizarre man-crush on Ludwick -- one-year wonder and all.
about 1 year ago
gondeee
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Hmmmm...
Well….we gotta sign somebody for left field. I don’t feel good at all about having the worst outfield offensively in the majors so sure. Ludwick had a great year last year and he has to be better than what we have now. I think we have a to get a really good deal in a trade for it to be worth it though. I don’t wanna trade Kelly for Ludwick.
by KC Ryan on Feb 5, 2009 9:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
If all they wanted was Kelly,
I’d say, get it done. Let Martin finally get a chance of playing every day.
SubParr
by nick9314 on Feb 5, 2009 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
KJ for Ludwick made sense when the Braves looked like they were getting Furcal and while the Cardinals were needing a middle infielder. But since then, the Cardinals took Greene off the Padres’ hands and, obviously, Furcal’s still in L.A., so that deal doesn’t make much sense for either side anymore.
by Tokyokie on Feb 5, 2009 9:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Kelly is 27 years old (in a couple of weeks anyways)…the ages 26-28 are usually break out years for talented guys like Kelly…I think he could put up a fantastic season this year, and I wouldn’t trade him…
...catsports...
by bwellnjonesco on Feb 5, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope Wren with his recent comments on LF not being a urgent matter in going with into the season with diaz/Bjones/Anderson/Blanco/FYF in the OF is a smoke screen…I hope that Soriano gets healthy enough that we could send him to the Cards for Ludwick deal…Go ahead and sign Ohman anways with the hope that what we shed salary with Soriano (6M) in a trade than could be used it than for Ohman 2/6/Glavine1/3(Optional) or AJ 1/3. But something should be done in LF!!! The ultimate Last option I would want to see is a Griffey/Diaz platoon….Who knows Ludwick could be a one year wonder as well…
by Hanson-Ace on Feb 5, 2009 10:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ludwick put up great numbers last year, in what was essentially his first injury-free year. But he’ll be 31 in July, and if he hasn’t plateaued, he would seem awfully darn close. Don’t think trading a guy who’s just coming into his own and has a pretty good upside for a guy who may very well never repeat his previous season’s numbers is a good idea.
by Tokyokie on Feb 5, 2009 11:28 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ludwick
I could deal with Ludwick in LF. And No-He won’t hit like he did last year but something close would be fine. I don’t want to trade KJ though. The Cards have depth in the OF (keep in mind that they have Shumaker, Duncan, Ankiel, Ludwick, and Rasmus for their OF right now) and if they are hitting an in pass with Ludwick it may be a good time to make a deal. The cards would still be interested in KJ because their starting 2B is Kennedy..not a good thing for them. However, I would be more open to the deal if we could trade a propsect like Reyes or Morton and maybe Boyer (who is out of options anyway) as part of a package. KJ’s upside to me is still high. Yes he is 27 but he missed a whole year so developmentally you could think of him as 26. If we moved KJ Prado would do fine, but I still think that KJ Projects as a .280 hitter with a good OBP and 20+ HRS a year. That is nice production from 2B in a post steriod era.
by calbers on Feb 5, 2009 11:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
ESPN
ESPN just reported on First Take that the Braves are VERY interested in Abreu and have even offered him a one year deal but that he is holding out for a multi-year deal.
by KC Ryan on Feb 5, 2009 11:50 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Fuck. That.
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
by bigjoe on Feb 5, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Abreu can move to RF once Francouer fails. This could be a good motivator for Francouer, so he can ultimately succeed.
by 10-4 on Feb 5, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
don't forget...
ESPN releases these supposed “breaking news” alerts constantly based on nothing other than rumor… They’re famous for being waaaay off on Hot stove news. Take it with a grain of salt, (not to say I’m not at least intrigued by the idea of Abreu in the lineup).
by awilliams16 on Feb 5, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d prefer to have Ankiel over Ludwick any day.
And I don’t mind Abreu either if he plays LF. The guy can still hit.
by Sparhawk on Feb 5, 2009 12:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
3 words for Ankiel
Scott Boras client.
by awilliams16 on Feb 5, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That door swings both ways
The SBC label can also lower the asking price in a trade.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
by buzzdeadwax on Feb 5, 2009 5:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just don’t let it hit you on the way out
by mattdiaz4life on Feb 5, 2009 7:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Im not sold on Ludwick, especially if it comes at the cost of Kelly. If they wanna work a deal with Prado and Soriano or something (Morton, Parr) then lets get it done.
by bravesguy311 on Feb 5, 2009 12:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ludwick scares me a little bit. The guy didn’t break out until he was 30 years old. He was very good last year but if it took him that long to have a good season, it could have just been a fluke. He’s very hard to judge how much it would take to get him in a trade. I doubt that they would want Johnson because they already have $5M tied up in that position. My assumption is that they would want pitching. We might be able to swing Morton, Soriano, and a low level prospect for him.
by jack dein on Feb 5, 2009 3:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ludwick more than scares me a little bit, he scares me a lot. I don’t see why the Braves would feel the need to trade for him simply because he has only played well for one season in the majors. The last thing the Braves need to do is give Prado the second base job. At that point they are just trading their LF offensive problems for 2B offensive problems. I tend to think Prado would struggle as an everyday player.
I could be wrong about Ludwick but if the Braves deal for him, one of the ways I would feel good about it is if we include Prado in that trade. I am not ready to give up on Morton yet.
by bengoodfella on Feb 5, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This times a gajillion
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
by bigjoe on Feb 5, 2009 6:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
come on Big Joe… im certain u checked Ludwicks’s nbrs in the minors…. the guy is good he just never got the chance and/or was injured.
However, if you are "this"ing the Prado doesnt deserve the 2B job then by all means… “this” away…cause Prado is not good on any level.. .he is worse defensively than KJ, arguable and no where near as good offensively.
"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."
by Swo12bv on Feb 5, 2009 9:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What minor league numbers am I looking at exactly? I see a guy who couldn’t crack an .850 OPS as a 27 year old in AAA, playing a full season, and racking up Cody Johnson-esque strikeout numbers. Or am I supposed to look at stats that are more than 5 years ago when he was actually considered a prospect?
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
by bigjoe on Feb 5, 2009 9:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly he has put up solid numbers… Im not saying he is worth KJ… thats just ridiculous… but saying he isnt worthless carte blanch is just as bad.
If we can give the Cards some releivers and some low level prospects that would entice them, then i think its a good idea. the fact is he has power, he is marginally proficient at taking a walk and plays decent defense. Is he the future answer for our LF problems? absolutely not… he is better then Dunn, not even close…. however is he better than Abreu, or a Diaz/Jones (or insert other shitty OF), probably.
Ill take him for Acosta, Prado and some pitchers in low A… i dont know if that will get it done, proabbly not but it would be a decent starting place.
Ludwick has posted a 800+ OPS every year except 05 (when he only played 54 games and was injured) and his first year in the minors. 800 would be leaps and bounds above every OF the braves have.
"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."
by Swo12bv on Feb 5, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
FUCK ME… “is worthless” lo siento
"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."
by Swo12bv on Feb 5, 2009 10:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why would the older minor league stats not be valid? Plenty of good evidence to be gleaned from that.
In the beginning of his career, Ludwick hit well at every stage in the minors and raked at AAA as a 23 year old. He raked again in AAA as a 24-year old and then got traded for the second time, was asked to repeat AAA yet again, and stagnated. Plenty of guys get frustrated/bored/ineffective when they realize they’re becoming Quad-A players.
Formerly Uncle Charlie of Minor League Ball
by Yakker on Feb 6, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Look at Andruw Jones’s numbers from 5 years ago.
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
by bigjoe on Feb 6, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not analogous, and you know it. Stop being difficult.
Formerly Uncle Charlie of Minor League Ball
by Yakker on Feb 6, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hu?
You want to swing Morton, a top 5 farm-hand SP and a guy with closing experience who throws lights out when he’s healthy, AND a low level prospect for a guy who’s had his first good year @ 30 years old!? Sorry, but I don’t understand the reasoning here.
by awilliams16 on Feb 5, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
That is how I feel as well. I don’t think we should give up on Morton yet and I would definitely not trade Soriano. He is in a contract year, which means he will be lights out all year. I wish the Cardinals would do Prado for Ludwick straight up.
by bengoodfella on Feb 5, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You guys are completely missing the point. They don’t want a second basemen. They already have Kennedy locked up for this year at $5M. You say Ludwick has only had one very good year well Morton has only had one good year. Before he 2008 he was far from dominant at any level. He was very good at AAA but then was inconsistent in the majors. Soriano can be good but he is also injury prone. Saying that they should take Prado for him is just stupid. At this point all Prado has proven is that he is a good utility player.
by jack dein on Feb 5, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would take a guy who had one good year and is 25 years old over a 30 year old who had one good year, especially when you have to trade players to get the 30 year old. Soriano is injury prone as well but that doesn’t mean we should trade him and deplete the bullpen. I said I wished they would take Prado for him because, as you said, Prado is only a good utility player. That’s not stupid, that’s a trade I think both of us would make. I didn’t say they should, I said I wished they would.
I think in your trade proposal the Braves are just giving up a lot for a guy who has only had one year, that’s all.
by bengoodfella on Feb 5, 2009 4:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If it was a straight up trade Morton for Ludwick then I would take Ludwick. Ludwick has had 1.5 good years at the major league and is an everyday player. Morton had a very good season at AAA but then only had a few good games at the majors. Right now Prado doesn’t have that much trade value because he hasn’t proven he can be an everyday player. He’s also not that highly thought of around baseball because he has no power and doesn’t steal bases. He plays good defense and hits for a good average and has a good on-base but he just isn’t that valuable. I really don’t think that giving up Soriano is going to deplete the bullpen. Gonzalez will close and Acosta, Moylan, Bennett, Carlyle and others will fill it out. The Cardinals are going to want pitching in any trade for Ludwick and while others have said that they would want Ankiel over Ludwick I really don’t want Ankeil. He is a free agent after the season and is a Boras client.
by jack dein on Feb 5, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think keeping Soriano gives us a great opportunity to have a fantastic bullpen. Plus someone is going to be injured and Moylan is coming off surgery so I would just prefer keep the bullpen where it is at so we have some sort of depth. Especially since Bobby Cox loves to overuse his bullpen. I don’t want Ankiel either, because he is a Boras client. I am sure the Braves feel similar. I don’t like Prado that much either, I was just responding to a suggestion earlier in the post to give Prado the everyday job. I would much prefer he be a super utility guy who can play 2B, 3B after Infante is forced to play LF the rest of the year because we have no other options out there.
by bengoodfella on Feb 5, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow we pretty much agree. You raise a good point about how Cox overuses the bullpen. Moylan should be fine this year because his surgery came early. My biggest issue with Soriano is that he doesn’t seem to want to play, after that whole mystery injury he had last year. Plus if he’s healthy and good all season then we probably won’t bring him back anyway. I think that Prado is a good utility guy and nothing more. I really don’t want him as an everyday starter.
by jack dein on Feb 5, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yea, we agree. I don’t want to get into my bullpen complaints, that is for a different fan posting, but I will just say I value Ankiel and Ludwick a lot less than the Cardinals asking price is going to be. I want to keep Soriano because I want to get a contract year out of him before he goes to another team and gets injured. I am not so worried about Moylan, because you are right, he got injured like the first week of the season. I have just seen others post about Prado as an everyday guy if we trade KJ and I really don’t want that. If we trade for an OF, I would rather the Braves look at a different team than the Cardinals.
by bengoodfella on Feb 5, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
live from STL
Ankiel is awesome and fun to watch – boy can he make throws – but nothing too special. Ludwick is a big dude, and also a great player to watch at the plate. But give KJ for Ludwick? NO WAY.
I’ve seen Ludwick live too many times, and I feel KJ is our boy, ready to bust out.
by traphicg on Feb 5, 2009 5:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ludwick and Bullpen
Bear in mind that while Ludwick is seen as a “late bloomer” he was actually considered a good prospect-and was included in two different trades. The first was from Oakland to Texas and then he went to Cleveland (I think as part of the Hafner trade). He was always looked at as a good corner OFer who projected power but not average. So as he is finally healthy I don’t think his power is a complete surprise.
I am glad to see that someone else is concerned about the pen. Looking at how we stack up I think we will be in the same situation as this year. I would love for us to sign a Juan Cruz as insurance/set up. Our three closer/set up options are all injury risks. Boyer has a history of injury..yet we ran him out there all the time last year. There were times I thought his arm was going to fall off. We don’t have a solid lefty in the pen w/o Ohman. Acosta has nasty stuff…but nasty control. He scares me when he is on the mound. The only sure things are Carlyle and Bennett and they are nothing more then journeymen who had decent years last year. IF everyone is healty and IF everyone pitches up to their potential we could have a great pen. However, more then likely multiple people will be injured and at least a couple people will underperform..leaving us with a thin pen…again. Too bad we don’t have a young, inexpensive, stud reliever…someone like a Joey Devine? Sorry-had to take the shot.
by calbers on Feb 5, 2009 5:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the background on Ludwick. I did not know he was not healthy previously but that gives me one more reason to think we should not trade for him.
I think if, and that is a big if, Soriano, Moylan, and Gonzalez stay healthy we would have a great bullpen. I actually began turning the channel when Boyer came in the game because I knew something bad would happen either because of his pitching or his arm was going to fly off and hit someone. I was begging Cox not to put him in the game. Its not that I dislike Carlyle and Bennett in the bullpen, but I don’t consider them great assets, because they are journeymen and are not going to be capable of great things. I actually feel good about the bullpen, until the first major injury of course.
Speaking of injuries in the bullpen, my nightmare scenario is having Derek Lowe out there closing ball games with Boone Logan and Manny Acosta as his set up guys. I am kidding of course, if that happens we would have no need for a closer because we would never be winning.
by bengoodfella on Feb 5, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why not take the chance with Ken Griffey Jr. Seems like he will take a cheaper contract and lots of reports are saying that he’s healthy right now. If he looks sloppy during spring training, then it’s time to trade for sure things. Griffey should be the brave LF this season. He still has pop and if that knee is better like the reports say then we should all be all for Griffey being signed.
by thestoopshow on Feb 5, 2009 9:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Lets just ignore the fact that he’s 39, has played a total of 13 innings in left field in his career, was an absolute butcher in right the last 2 seasons for the Reds & Sox, and is clearly in his decline phase. Thats exactly what this team needs.
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
by bigjoe on Feb 5, 2009 9:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
o and the fact that is is too arrogant and expensive to be used properly, in a platoon role
"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."
by Swo12bv on Feb 5, 2009 9:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
God, imagine if we gave him $5 million to platoon with Diaz. I’d put my head through the wall.
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
by bigjoe on Feb 5, 2009 9:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If we give him $5 million I’ll drive a rusty nail…well, you know the rest. No need to say it.
-1000 for being a dick.
by Rhyno18 on Feb 5, 2009 10:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Think that would be bad...
I am having nightmares of a Diaz/Norton platoon in LF. You think I am kidding, but right now that may be the best option on the current roster. How scary is that?
by calbers on Feb 5, 2009 11:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You should not have nightmares about that
because Norton is a great pinch hitter so he will be on the bench. You should be having nightmares about a Diaz/BJones platoon, which I believe is likely to happen. I want the Braves to just remember how “expensive” Adam Dunn was in mid-May when he is hitting .235/.385/.520 and the Braves platoon is hitting .240/.285/.340. I am getting depressed.
by bengoodfella on Feb 6, 2009 9:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When in doubt
I prefer going younger. Often younger equates to cheaper, as well as fresh-legged and quicker, which is better for any team, and older equates to heavy, slow-footed (read: defensive liability). And as a proponent for defense and run-prevention, I see no flaw with staying on the cheap until something better than Junior comes along (read: Dunn) and sticking with a Bjönes/Diaz platoon.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
by royhobbs on Feb 6, 2009 9:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am with you on this theory in principle. I think in the Braves situation, if they can’t find someone who will be dramatically better than a BJones/Diaz (I find it sad there is not that many players that qualify for this) platoon then they should stick with what they have.
by bengoodfella on Feb 6, 2009 9:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
have you guys forgotten...
the offense of ‘08? here lies the problem:
the problem with not having a power left fielder can probably go unnoticed on days when we face a right hander and everyone is healthy. however, the days where chipper is hurt, mccann is resting, francoeur is sucking, and kj isn’t streaking (not in the naked sense), we will blow and blow hard. those would be the days where an adam dunn bomb with 1 man on would be the difference maker. a power outfielder is needed on an offense that’s so inconsistent.
by ryan c on Feb 6, 2009 10:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don't want a BJones/Diaz platoon
but since we are not interested in that Dunn guy and there is no other free agent that is worth the money they are asking, it is the last resort option right now. I think there have been about 25 different posts concerning Adam Dunn and I think everyone can agree he is the best option, but he is too expensive, plus the Braves don’t appear to want a clean up hitter this year. I am with you on this but the problem lies in the fact the Braves aren’t signing Dunn and there is nothing else out there.
by bengoodfella on Feb 6, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the 08 offense… shit i knew i forgot something
"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."
by Swo12bv on Feb 6, 2009 10:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If money is really tight...
(and I don’t think anyone really knows what kind of money we have to spend), but if it is, I have no problem with starting the year with Diaz/B. Jones in LF. Jones had a solid minor league career and battled injury last year. Still, 10 doubles, 1 triple and 1 HR in 116 ab’s shows something. He just struck out an awful lot.
Anyway, if money is tight, I’ve got no problem with holding back a few mil so we can trade for a needed piece – whether it’s bullpen, OF power, or something else, midseason. Once we really know what the need is. It’s a long, long season, and some flexibility could make a big difference.
by MikeinAtlanta on Feb 6, 2009 12:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs






















