Manny is a......
by That a boy on Feb 27, 2009 12:01 AM EST
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PrintFirst I would like to send my congrats to the young crop of Braves players we have. Watching the game today made me realize that you win and win for a long time drafting and developing your players. I must say the braves are doing a hell of a job. We have at least 8 players in the top 100 prospect list that either came from our organization( Neftali Feliz, Tyler Flowers) or that is in it know. We will win and always win because the Braves do a hella of a job scouting young players. I am happy we never go after big ticket free agents MANNY holly s*** he just turned down the 2 year 45 million dollar offer again from the dodgers, and they are the only team offering him money. So in conclusion this brings me to the point of this whole post. What would you do with
45 effin million DOLLARS.
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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If I was the Dodgers I would tell Manny that we no longer have interest. No other team is going to be willing to pay him $22.5 million a year. I really don’t think that he is worth $20 million a season anyway. He is a great hitter but he is getting old and is terrible in the outfield. He is 36 and will be 37 in May so a decline is going to happen this year or next. Going to an AL team would be best for him.
I would tell Manny to fuck off...
"It takes many nails to build crib, but only one screw to fill it." - Chinese Proverb
uhhh...this what
"It takes many nails to build crib, but only one screw to fill it." - Chinese Proverb
Sorta
Like a +1, except without the +. Or the 1.
"The crows seemed to be calling his name, thought Caw."
so like a +1/2-1/2
"It takes many nails to build crib, but only one screw to fill it." - Chinese Proverb
Don't know...
…But apparently I wouldn’t be able to sign Manny to play baseball with me for 2 years.
"Have you ever had your heart broken?"
"Yeah, when we lost the pennant in '87."
Weak...
…I was expecting your to pull the line from Office Space.
We should have signed Adam Dunn.
by Smoltz's Beard on Feb 27, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
you don’t have to have 45 millon dollars to do nothin!
by Bmacbandwagon on Feb 27, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Backfire from Hell
Manny being Manny + Boras being Boras + current economic climate = yeah, gay fags
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Feb 27, 2009 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
That’s the only way two chicks would double up on a dude like you…
best defensive shortstop in baseball hahahahahahahahahah (omar visquel)
I'd rather just do nothing
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
by buzzdeadwax on Feb 27, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
At least someone knocked that softball out.
We should have signed Adam Dunn.
by Smoltz's Beard on Feb 27, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Manny either has balls of steel...
or a brain made of dung.
Or both.
by BraveBronco0121 on Feb 27, 2009 12:28 AM EST reply actions
well, considering this
one costs $2.5M and the other will cost someone more than $45M, I’ll take the cheaper – especially with my crop of younguns coming up!
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 27, 2009 1:25 AM EST up reply actions
You've got a better shot at getting a return on your investment with Manny.
I’d take the one whose career numbers are .314/.411/.593, is still producing as well as he ever has, and perfectly fills our need for a right handed power hitting LFer to bat cleanup. In short, I’ll take the guy who will do more to help us win, generate interest in the team, and sell tickets.
Besides, it’s not my money.
Eh...
to be honest, I’m not high on Manny’s chances for 2009 glory. From 02 to 07, his offense was trending slightly downward with a tank in 07. His fielding went from mediocre to terrible over the same span, and in his walk year it all seemed to be back to his career heights. Personally, I don’t buy that 2008 is Manny’s true talent level – it was a walk year for him, and players in walk years tend to overperform. His fielding, terrible in the three years prior, was actually acceptable and his bat was better than it had been since 2002. A monster year by any measure, but not a good measure of his abilities going forward.
I think Manny’s worth ~3.75 to 4.25 wins over replacement going forward, roughly his production from 2006. That’s simply not worth a 25 mil/year deal. For a reference point, that production would have about the same value as that of Matt Cain, Carlos Pena, Aramis Ramirez, and Placido Polanco. It’s very good, perhaps even all-star level if someone gets hurt, but not enough to put him with the elite. He would be, barring any major injury, the 3rd best position player on the team behind Chipper and BMac.
by BraveBronco0121 on Feb 27, 2009 4:03 AM EST up reply actions
I disagree
To get a return on your investment doesnt mean anything unless that return is greater than or equal to what you invested. I defy anyone to name one player worth more than 25M for one season. with GA the odds are he is going to give us an equal value on our investment, because our investment is so small.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 27, 2009 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
“I defy anyone to name one player worth more than 25M”
by TradeAndruw on Feb 27, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
HahAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
+ 25 million
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 27, 2009 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
It
looks like Smoltz is saying to himself “If I act like I am asleep maybe he will leave.”
See what the daily item is today! http://www.sportmemorylane.com
by dragonhawk26 on Feb 27, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
Well played
I'll handle u in spring training - phil413
by mattdiaz4life on Feb 27, 2009 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
+1
That picture is perfect.
We should have signed Adam Dunn.
by Smoltz's Beard on Feb 27, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
7yrs/$100mil
Is criminal.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Garret Anderson
is a waste of $2.5 MM. He brings marginal (at best) value to the team over the people that he is replacing on the roster.
Manny would provide actual positive value, help the team win, be the sort of big flashy star that Atlanta loves, sell tickets, and move merchandise.
WIth Manny, the team looks like a legitimate WS contender. With Garret Anderson they have no better chance than they did before the signing.
Manny would just never work with the Braves.
He’s more the…..‘Boston’/‘LA’ type. It’s like this: anybody with a tagline like, “Manny being Manny” would not fit into the Braves organization. You need to have some class. And Manny shows class from time to time, but that’s about it.
He’s the kind of guy that eventually ends up with Satan’s team…errr….the Yankees. Manny can be the man, but keep him the hell out of Atlanta. Wouldn’t fit.
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Feb 27, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
Disagree again
Garret Andersons numbers are way better than any outfielder that the braves had last year. He hit nearly more HRs than our entire OF combined. He is a career .290-ish hitter while our OF was one of the worst in the majors in that department last year. He is an instant, and FAR better upgrade, not just “margina (at best)”.
Is a world series worth $45 million dollars to one player? Manny doesnt make us instant world series contenders – he would make us instantly a better outfield. He is only one person. He didnt take the dodgers to the WS last year.
With GA we have as much a shot at the WS as we do with Manny.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 27, 2009 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sorry
You don’t think Manny is worth the money, that’s one thing, but are you really trying to argue that Garret Anderson, and his less than 100 OPS+ of three out of the last 4 years batting cleanup (because you know that’s where Bobby is going to stick him) gives us just as much of a shot at the WS as Manny Ramirez, one of the best hitters in the game?
Yes
because our offense isnt what kept us out of the playoffs last year. What was the last team to win the world series because of their dominating offense? PITCHING wins championships. If the other team can’t score, no matter if you only score 1 run or 10 runs, if you hold the other team’s offense in check, you win every time.
Manny would help us win an extra couple of games along the way, sure. He is a better offensive player than GA too, I am not stupid enough to think otherwise. Manny is one of the top 3 offensive players of my time. But, he single-handedly doesnt make us any more of a WS threat than GA does.
Cox won’t bat GA in the cleanup spot. Why does everyone assume that he will? Am I missing something here?
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 28, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
Please explain how
winning more games doesn’t make us more of a WS threat … Especially when Manny has been a great post-season hitter and Garret has not.
please explain to me...
where I said that winning games doesnt make us a ws threat. Don’t put words in my mouth.
pitching wins ws, that is my point. you completely ignored that part of my post.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 28, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
What does Manny Vs Anderson have to do with pitching?
And you have to score runs to win games, we found that out in the 1st half last season when we had the 2nd best team ERA in the league, but were still below .500 because of our sub-par offense.
And you said Manny wouldn’t make us more of a WS threat than GA, while stating that he’s a better hitter (much better IMO) and that he would help us win games. That translates to saying that winning more games doesn’t make you more of a WS threat.
Manny v Anderson has nothing to do with pitching
The Braves having a chance to win the WS has everything to do with pitching and nothing to do with who their LF is.
And no, your deduction of my statement is wrong. Yes, if we had Manny, we may (just throwing out arbitrary numbers here, not a prediction on my part) win 90 games instead of 88. That has nothing to do with us winning a World Series.
Why don’t we give GA a chance to suck before we start hating on him?
Manny isn’t that much better of a HITTER than GA. He has more power, and a slightly better average and walks more. Yes, he is a better hitter, but GA is one of those professional hitters who rarely strikes out. He always puts the ball in play, and when there are RISP, his average (for his career) goes WAY up. When there are RISP with less than 2 outs, it goes up even more.
Bottom line – Manny would cost (minimum) $43 million more than GA does for minimal return. Manny’s presence in our lineup doesnt make us a WS threat. WS are won by pitching. Call me crazy, but I don’t think that getting Manny with his outrageous contract (not to mention his horrendous defense) and his questionable work ethic is better than getting GA.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 28, 2009 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
Minimal return?
To quote you, “Manny is one of the top 3 offensive players of my time.”
Yet he offers only a “minimal return” over Garret Anderson?
And, yes, winning more games increases your chances of winning the WS. How does it not?
If the Phils win 100, the Mets win 98, and we win 96 guess which team is sitting at home. Turning 1 playoff defeat into victory, well, that’s the difference between winning the WS and making a first round exit.
Like I said, if you just don’t think Manny is worth the money, that’s fine,, but but acting like he wouldn’t provide a significant upgrade over every other LF option we have, is, quite frankly, ridiculous.
Like I said, pitching alone gets you nothing, otherwise our team would have had a comfortable lead at the all star break, instead of being under .500. If you can’t score, you can’t win. This isn’t football, you can’t get points off of turnovers or get a big play from special teams. Your offense has to put points on the board.
Your stat about ERA
is meaningless. Our starters couldnt get out of the 5th inning. You will never convince me that defense/pitching doesnt win the world series.
The return value that is in question regarding Manny v Anderson is this: Manny needs to provide more than $45 million of return, while GA has to only provide $2.5M. GA will give us more for the money than Manny ever could.
Being “under .500” in June is the equivalent of batting .800 in spring training. Doesnt matter.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 28, 2009 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
Meaningless?
Yeah, I guess giving up fewer runs and having a lower WHIP than all but 1 other team in the league is meaningless. Obviously the amount of runs allowed and the number of runners allowed to reach base is no way to measure the overall performance of a pitching staff/defense.
The return value that is in question regarding Manny v Anderson is this: Manny needs to provide more than $45 million of return, while GA has to only provide $2.5M. GA will give us more for the money than Manny ever could.
In order for Garret to be worth $2.5 MM he has to out preform what our internal LF options would have given us by that amount. I don’t think he will. He’s only been an above average hitter once in the last 4 years.
Of course, unless BJones is traded and given a chance to start for some other team, we’ll never have any way of knowing what he’d have done if given a chance.
Manny is a major improvement. It’s as simple as that. He gives the team a better chance of winning.
Like I said in another post, I’d rather eat a Porterhouse than a Sirloin, even if I’ve got to pay more for the Porterhouse.
but if all you are is hungry
like, starved for the past two weeks, it wont matter what kind of steak you get. heck, you’d eat a chicken-fried steak at that point! :)
and yes, a “team era” in June is meaningless. Case in point – ours last year. we were right there in contention in June. by july and august (when our offense came around) we went into the cellar because our pitching was weak.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Mar 1, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
But it is your money. Hate paying $40+ for a ticket? Hate paying $8+ for a beer? Can’t take the family out to a ball game cause it’ll cost a gold mine? Yeah. It really is your money.
by soup du jour on Feb 27, 2009 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
I think that's backwards
The ownership will charge whatever they can get away with—regardless of their fixed costs. Do you think consession and ticket prices are significantly lower at a Marlins game than a Braves game?
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
by buzzdeadwax on Feb 27, 2009 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
They aren’t?
I'll handle u in spring training - phil413
by mattdiaz4life on Feb 27, 2009 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
They were at Tampa Bay games
well, at least before this past season. I remember getting tickets for $5 many times – and not nosebleed tickets. I am talking field level, 3B side. Concessions were about $5-$6 for a beer, if i remember right…this was back in 2005, 2006 and 2007.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 27, 2009 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
The Trop
Allegedly used to have free parking, too. Think they still do that today?
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
It was only $5 close to the stadium, and free a few blocks away
that was as recently as ’06…not sure about now.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 27, 2009 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
$10 for parking nowadays.. .but its free if u have 3 people int he car with u, i think (maybe 4)
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Somewhere, there’s a joke about walking five blocks with 20 other guys
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
they should provide shuttle transport from the parking lot to the stadium
for free…you know, to help the fans.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Mar 3, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
Nope
It’s Liberty Media’s money. I very rarely buy ballpark food anyway, so that’s of little concern to me. If the ticket prices are raised by an amount I find objectionable I’ll simply buy fewer tickets over the course of the season to compensate. If the team is winning, and/or has players that I enjoy watching, I’ll certainly shift my entertainment budget more toward Braves tickets. If the team is in 4th place and Garret Anderson is hitting cleanup I’ll probably shift my entertainment budget toward something I’d actually enjoy.
If I’m spending more on tickets it means that the team is winning and/or more exciting to watch, I consider that a fair trade.
I don't really buy this argument.
Liberty Media wouldn’t be paying for anything if the fans weren’t going to the games. The fans are ultimately what pays for the game; whether through advertising dollars, ticket sales, or television contracts, its up to the fans to shell out their dollars to keep the team (and the game) making money. I’m not talking about whether its worth it for them; I’m talking about in a base sense. A rise in payroll (which is what Manny would bring us) would definitely bring about a rise in cost for the fans.
by soup du jour on Feb 28, 2009 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
Going to the ballpark is already something that many people can’t afford to do everyday, if I’m shelling out money for a “special event” like going to a ballgame or a concert, then I’d rather pay more money for quality than pay less and get an experience that I won’t really enjoy.
It’s the same way that if I’m going out for a steak I’d rather drop the extra money on a Porterhouse or T-Bone than get the bargain priced Sirloin. If that means that I’ve got to cut some other parts of my food budget, then I’m good with that.
If trading Chipper for a couple of prospects and starting Prado at 3B would give you reduced ticket prices, would that make you more excited about going to the park?
Straight up greed
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Feb 27, 2009 8:25 AM EST reply actions
I would've said "Boras is a..."
Because it doesn’t take a genius to know that he’s the one likely pulling the strings here. Manny’s just a pawn in his game to make more money. I get it, professional athletes need to get paid like professional athletes, and I know most of us plebeians won’t see the kind of money that they will.
But not to sound too clichéd, but in this current economic situation, is it really a good idea, to demand more money and play this kind of financial Russian Roulette? I’m sure that Boras couldn’t give a shit about the common man, but this kind of commission-chasing he’s doing right now has to be crossing yet another line of greed and manipulation, here. There are a lot more people suffering today than there was a year ago, and I know sports fans can be a very clouded bunch when it pertains to their favorite sports, but as people, can we really see justification for turning down $22.5 million dollars a year, in search of more, for playing a children’s game?
I know it’s said every year, but eventually the escalation of free-agent deals is going to reach a breaking point. It may not happen with Manny, but it’s getting closer if it doesn’t boil over this time around. And if Manny Ramirez has to be lamb to the slaughter, I don’t care if he’s one of the greatest hitters in history, it’s gotta happen to someone.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
by royhobbs on Feb 27, 2009 9:44 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
This.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 27, 2009 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
"but eventually the escalation of free-agent deals is going to reach a breaking point"
Only through collusion. To reach a breaking point, players’ salaries would have to be so high that the owners couldn’t charge enough on tickets, merchandise, tv, concessions, etc to make the undertaking worthwhile. That’s not even close. According to Forbes MLB made $5.5 billion in 2007 and the players’ salaries actually decreased from 66% to 56% of the total revenues. In short, the financial health of baseball is just fine, the current second coming of the Great Depression nothwithstanding.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
by buzzdeadwax on Feb 27, 2009 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Welp
I guess that nixes that. Collusion wouldn’t happen. Like people who send off inter-office emails to “protest the gas prices by everyone not coming into work on August 14th” that inevitably fail miserably, people refusing to go to ballgames in protest of marquee players asking for too much would result in the same thing.
Nor would baseball front office guys secretly agree to blackball a marquee player to send a message that they’re not going to pay a eleventy billion dollars for a season of Manny Ramirez, because then a particular team might be able to try to jockey and get the player for their team instead.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Sort of unrelated
Back in 1997 or 1998, I can’t remember, when I was still living up in Northern Virginia, there was this heavily campaigned “Bike to Work Day,” where residents of Arlington/Alexandria/Washington DC were encouraged to not drive their cars, and ride their bikes to work on a brisk autumn morning. The local news outlets even championed for it on television. So what happened?
Worst car traffic day of the year. Clearly, people thought the roads would be nice and empty since all the green samaritans would be on their bicycles, so even those who typically carpool, were driving solo that morning.
If that happened today, the sheer number of jpegs with “FAIL” written on it would crash this site.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
barry bonds?
granted, it isnt for the same reason, but you still gotta give the idea some thought.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 27, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
Redskins just signed Haynesworth for 100 mil, AND they re-signed Hall, AND they were already over the salary cap. How is this possible? Dan Snyder should buy the Braves.
They need to hire Vida to go around talking with fans during games
Me gusta!! Me gusta!!
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Feb 27, 2009 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
I know what you’ve been listening to this morning.
We should have signed Adam Dunn.
by Smoltz's Beard on Feb 27, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
haha
what?
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Feb 27, 2009 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
The Sports Junkies. Not to de-rail this thread, but this team isn’t going anywhere with Jason Candle at QB. And the O-line is still garbage.
Your link is a disaster: Sports Junkies
You’re right about the Skins, though.
We should have signed Adam Dunn.
by Smoltz's Beard on Feb 27, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
Cambell is actually a pretty decent QB.
He is still young and getting better every year. And I am a Jaguars fan, not a skins, so I am completely unbiased in this one.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 27, 2009 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
What a saint!
Boras has now ACCEPTED the $45mil figure, on the conditions that it is $25 mil for 2009, and a $20 mil club option in 2010, instead of the money being deferred over five years. Whether or not the Dodgers choose to accept this has yet to be determined. It would be an admirable thing to see them say, “you know what, no,” but that’s probably not going to happen.
The funny thing is that he wanted a long-term deal. I imagine had he stayed in Boston they would have exercised the $20mil option year by now, and now he’s not even guaranteed one, let alone one and an option at this point.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
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