Please No Glavine
by KC Ryan on Feb 17, 2009 10:20 AM EST
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PrintRosenthal reported last night that the Braves are close to signing Glavine for $1M guarantee with easily reached roster based incentives that will total $4.5M. Signing Glavine for a contract with easy to reach incentives totaling $4+ million is insane. Why don't we just throw that money at something we actually need.....a proven bullpen lefty. Will Ohman anyone? It looks like he isn't even getting a sniff of more than $1-2M for a one year deal.
He would be ten times more valuable to the 09 version of the Braves than some old glory nostalgia trip. Don't get me wrong, I love Glavine and he is one of the top 4 or 5 pitchers of his era.......but his era is long gone. Is Wren that afraid of what Braves fans will say if we let Glavine retire?
That is no way to run a business. Get the team what it needs and just trust that fans won't be heartsick about Glavine like they were about Smoltz. Glavine bolted on us when we still needed him and I don't think there is nearly as much love for him as there was for Smoltz.
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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Moot Pt.
It’s going down … whether you want it to or not.
"He's getting better, but he's not there yet ..."
- Bobby Cox (talking about Boyer)
are they doing the bus driver?
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Naw
Young Joc’s “It’s Going Down” …
"He's getting better, but he's not there yet ..."
- Bobby Cox (talking about Boyer)
For better or worse Glavine is coming onboard. I’ll remain optimistic; can never have too much starting pitching.
by Braves Examiner on Feb 17, 2009 11:25 AM EST reply actions
You can never have too much pitching depth. And if his durability (or lack there of) prevents him from starting, then we will have exactly what you are asking for: a proven lefty in the pen.
Glavine gets hurt the most when he first comes out…
...catsports...
by bwellnjonesco on Feb 17, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
OK
You saying they need to limit his appearances?
"He's getting better, but he's not there yet ..."
- Bobby Cox (talking about Boyer)
I meant he gets hit the most in the eariler innings…he usually has to settle in, so I think it would be a horrible decision to use him out of the pen…
...catsports...
by bwellnjonesco on Feb 17, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
He used smoltz in the pen
why not glavine?
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 17, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
DUDE
Come on. I know some people on this blog have more baseball knowledge than others, but it never hurts to share the weath. Or, if you’re not willing to share your baseball knowledge, at least don’t discourage others from doing so. Please?
"He's getting better, but he's not there yet ..."
- Bobby Cox (talking about Boyer)
your argument is that
Cox is too loyal to his pichers to use them in the pen.
well, he used smoltz in the pen. that defeats your logic.
if you want to argue that smoltz is a better pitcher out of the pen than Glavine, fine. Make that your arguement. But, don’t use loyalty as the argument, because that is wrong.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 17, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
?
Why would anyone make the arguement of loyalty about Glavine coming out of the pen? How about he has horse shit stuff for a relief pitcher (and a SP for that matter).
don't ask me
i didnt make that argument.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 17, 2009 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
You're the only person in this thread that has brought up loyalty.
Everyone else has been saying that Glavine would be a horrible reliever because of his weak stuff and notorious slow starts throughout his career.
Maybe I assumed
but when I read this post “I can’t see Bobby ever using Glavine in the pen” in conjunction with how much Bobby’s loyalty is a bad thing has been discussed in this blog I thought it was referring to his loyalty. If I am wrong, I apologize.
But, the point still stands.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 17, 2009 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
it also doesnt usually scream MLB starter
but there are exceptions…like tommy glavine.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 18, 2009 8:33 AM EST up reply actions
It isnt like
he is getting all of that money right now. The contract provides that most of the money (I believe all of the incentive money) will be paid over the next few years. The only money that Glavine would get this year is the guaranteed portion of the salary.
I am completely fine with a 1 year, $1M contract for him as a 5th starter.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 17, 2009 11:55 AM EST reply actions
I dont agree signing him but it does add depth and he could have a rebound year I guess
Proof that when posting while high or intoxicated can lead to some really funny posts
by bravesrbaseball on Feb 17, 2009 1:09 PM EST reply actions
"straddling the fence ..."
"He's getting better, but he's not there yet ..."
- Bobby Cox (talking about Boyer)
Dad?
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 17, 2009 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
"You can never have too much starting pitching depth"
I remember hearing this ad nauseum last year.
It is irrelevant how much “depth” you have if the “depth” sucks.
Glavine is terrible at this point. This and the Griffey signing are bad moves.
by get swoll yunel on Feb 17, 2009 2:20 PM EST reply actions
I hear Benito Santiago is available. He would help out with our need for catcher depth if Dave Ross gets hurt.
by bengoodfella on Feb 17, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
He would also bring veteran leadership to the team.
Would you kindly...
by Smoltz's Beard on Feb 17, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
Ooo ooo he could hit cleanup
I'll handle u in spring training - phil413
by mattdiaz4life on Feb 17, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
If that doesn't work out
maybe we could look into Reggie Sanders for LF. He hits homeruns, has veteran leadership and most of all, he is a winner.
Seriously though, I am not sure what to think about the Glavine signing. As long as he does not block any of the younger pitchers from getting starts when they could be better, I will be all for it.
Unfortunately, I am sure Bobby Cox is going to be super loyal and even if Glavine has an era above 6.00, he will be trotted out there.
by bengoodfella on Feb 17, 2009 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
how..
is griffey platooning with diaz a bad move? He can hit RHP and isnt expensive and will help ticket sales some.
I dont think anyone thinks he will get 30 HR this year but he will hit 15, which is an upgrade over josh anderson and diaz.
he and diaz could very easily combine for 25 HR
Because his defense is absolutely terrible at this point, and it damn near nullifies whatever offensive production he gives you.
And at age 39, with a long, long recent history of injury problems, I don’t see him miraculously turning anything around anytime soon.
… And also because old man Bobby will want to bat him 3rd and give him as many PA’s as possible.
by get swoll yunel on Feb 17, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
possibly..
BUT
1)you can make the injuries argument about anyone
2) I really doubt he will hit 3rd
3) He is an upgrade no matter what…diaz playing every day turns diaz into a well below average players..but hitting him just V. lefties he is really solid
Let me ask you this..what would be a better plan than diaz and girffey platooning? Diaz’s defense isnt any good either..the only upgrade on defense would be josh anderson or brandon jones…
I mean, I thought abreau for a year or dunn for 2 years made sense but i guess the money aint there
I get so tired of people badmouthing Diaz’s defense. The guy has come a long way and has tuned himself into an average to slightly above average left fielder.
He’s pretty amazing.
I'll handle u in spring training - phil413
by mattdiaz4life on Feb 18, 2009 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
I was whole-heartedly on the Dunn bandwagon
But since that wasn’t a possibility, I would rather give the ABs to B. Jones and see what he can do.
This team looks like a fringe playoff contender at this point anyway, so I don’t really see Griffey and the very minimal value he brings putting us “over the top” in any way.
by get swoll yunel on Feb 18, 2009 1:14 AM EST up reply actions
+1
on who cares about depth when the depth isnt very good.
What would REALLY suck is if they keep giving the ball to Glavine if Hanson is ready in June.
So, let me get this straight
Glavine was our #3 pitcher last year. We claimed “depth” last year, but that was proven fallable.
This year, Glavine is our #5. That automatically means that the quality of our depth is improved over what it was last year.
And to argue that “we had depth last year and it didn’t work” is just ridiculous. It is about quality of that depth. Our depth this year is quality.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 17, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
No.
Last year people were saying the same stuff you’re saying about the depth being “quality”. The fact of the matter is, you really have no idea how “quality” it is beyond Lowe and JJ and (optimistically) Vasquez. But Vasquez has the incredible ability to consistently underperform his peripherals, Kawakami is a total wild card, and the three-headed Morton/Reyes/Campillo entity is far from being proven in anything.
And if anybody was counting on Glavine being our #3 last year they were being hopelessly optimistic. The guy was terrible when he did pitch, he throws a batting practice fastball, and he’s old as fuck… he’s not a viable option other than for pure nostalgia and in trying to save face with the casual fans who are bitter about Smoltz walking.
by get swoll yunel on Feb 17, 2009 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
I normally try to stay away from “hunches” and “gut-feelings”, but I won’t deny that I’ve got a good one about Vasquez. Really looking forward to his season.
by Smoltz's Beard on Feb 17, 2009 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
PECOTA loves him.
I'll handle u in spring training - phil413
by mattdiaz4life on Feb 17, 2009 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
+1
I am not a fan of the whole “change of scenery” argument for most players but that situation in Chicago was TERRIBLE..you got a nut case for a manager who dosent believe in you, a jack ass for a catcher, and a city that unless you are cy young they hate you.
PLUS and pure hitters park.
while what you are saying may be true
it still doesnt negate the fact that someone who was our #3 last year (Hudson, Smoltz, Glavine, Hampton, Jerrjens) at the beginning of the season and is now our #5 indicates that we have gotten better pitching since then, thus increasing the quality of our depth.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 17, 2009 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
its the same guys...
just because glavine was 3 last year and is now 5, dosent make him any better of a pitcher…it means we GOT better pitchers, sure.
But aside from Mike Hampton leaving, Chuck James, Reyes, Morton, Caryle, and Campillo are all who they were last year (maybe with Morton still having upside). They arent guys who will help you win the division right now.
Common mistake
I'll handle u in spring training - phil413
by mattdiaz4life on Feb 17, 2009 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
Pretty sure
i never said he was a better pitcher. I said it indicates that our depth is greater, or in other words, we have better pitchers this year than we did last year.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 17, 2009 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
I understand what you are saying about the depth. I guess what I keep coming back to is that we did not have to outbid anyone for Glavine. Regardless of whether he preferred to stay here or not, no other team bid on him. I think if we get 8 wins out of him, I will feel good…again, I just don’t want him to block any other pitcher’s chance at being in the majors.
by bengoodfella on Feb 17, 2009 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
In a word, yes. Unless we are starting Dave Ross that day and in which case he will be moved up to 7th. Then our depth will have gotten worse.
by bengoodfella on Feb 17, 2009 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
So losing Mark Teixeira from the heart of our lineup
Combined with Francoeur sucking horribly and getting dropped to 8th = improved lineup depth?
Please explain.
I thought you were being sarcastic. I was being completely and utterly sarcastic with my comment. Our lineup has gotten much worse since the beginning of last year. Sorry, the sarcasm may not have reached across the World Wide Web.
by bengoodfella on Feb 17, 2009 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
wouldnt that mean it was the same?
he batted 7th and 8th last year some.
"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts." - Sir Winston Churchill -
by justincredubil02 on Feb 17, 2009 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
Frenchy started out the season last year batting 5th and 6th
A player coming in well below expectations and being dropped in the lineup as a result doesn’t mean you’ve got a 5th/6th quality hitter batting 8th, it means that he sucked and got dropped in the lineup as a reflection of his level of play.
Call me simplistic, but our lineup depth has gotten worse because we did not replace the offensive production at first base and did not increase production at any other position, unless the outfield performs better of course.
by bengoodfella on Feb 17, 2009 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
What happens to Campillo?
Mop-up duty? Seems a waste of a solid starter. I had assumed Jo-Jo/Morton/Parr would be part of a trade. Now we have a serious glut of AAAA starters.
That is my problem
I don’t understand what happens to Campillo and the rest of the 5th starters we have. I don’t know if it is understood that Glavine will be in training camp fighting for that 5th spot or it is going to be handed to him. I hope he has to fight for it because I would like to see Campillo in the majors this year starting…unless he starts stinking it up of course.
by bengoodfella on Feb 17, 2009 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
A fight?
Glavine could have the worst spring ever while the other guys throw nothing but perfect games, and Bobby would still hand him the roster spot.
God, I hope not. Cox is loyal to a fault sometimes. I just hope this is not going to be one of those times. I think Glavine should get a shot but I also don’t think he should stay in the rotation if he is outperformed in Spring Training or starts the year off. Of course, then I have no idea what they would do with him. He is not coming out of the bullpen, I know that much.
by bengoodfella on Feb 17, 2009 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
Campillo
I think all of the Braves front office were so shocked what they got out of him that they think it is a fluke ( I cant say i disagree) but I would venture to say they just cant imagine him repeating last year.
There’s no question of that. But, if that’s the case, then you have Campillo, Carlyle, and Bennett who are all basically the same pitcher, in relief. And, worse, they’re all better starting options than Glavine.
www.dropoutproductions.com
Then you have Morton, Reyes & Parr rotting away in the bullpen, or most likely, AAA which seems pretty useless.
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
I honestly think Morton and Reyes could benefit from more time in AAA, but Reyes certainly has nothing to prove. And aside from that, with the exception of Parr, they’re different from those three veterans as pitcher, and could add a useful dimension to the major league team. I fully believe Morton could have an Adam Wainwright type season out of the bullpen.
www.dropoutproductions.com
If you throw Morton in the bullpen, you’d have FOUR long relievers there, which is absolutely ridiculous. If they planned on just throwing Campillo on the back burner like this, they should have tried to trade him. Absolutely stupid handling of the back end of the rotation and bullpen this season.
SWAGGA LIKE BJONES, SWAGGA LIKE BJONES
JOE-BO FOR THE BENCH IN 09
If I were going into the season with Morton in the bullpen, I wouldn’t use him as a long reliever, it’d be as a one inning power pitcher. I’d think the Braves would too. He’d gain a lot out of being put into those high pressure situations and not having four days to think about his performance. But, with all the relievers we have, I’m sure he’ll be in AAA.
I agree, maybe trading Campillo would be a good idea, but you hate to give up pitching. Unless someone is willing to give back a young pitcher, then we may as well keep him and see what we can get out of him.
www.dropoutproductions.com
im actually all for his idea… except we have a fair amount of relievers as well.. Gonzo, Moylan, Soriano, and to a lesser extent Acosta and Boyer
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
You’re right about that. Ideally, I think Charlie would benefit from more time in AAA, but, if he pitches well, he could make a dynamite reliever. it’d be nice to see a Joba-lite career path for him.
www.dropoutproductions.com
o dont get me wrong… im all for him i think it could prove to be a great move… I think a good comparison would be the way the Rays used Price last year (or actually instead of Morton we could use Hanson that way)
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
It’s an idea, but I’m all for Hanson staying in AAA until he’s ready and then getting a spot in the rotation. Now if it’s the same scenario, where we’re in the playoffs and Tommy could bolster the pen, I’d be all for that.
Seriously, how dirty is David Price? I’m so freaking glad I got his autograph when he was with Durham.
www.dropoutproductions.com
Didn’t get to see Price in Durham, but saw Longoria a couple of times and saw Kazmir on a rehab assignment.
I'll handle u in spring training - phil413
by mattdiaz4life on Feb 18, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
Good deal on Kamir. Saw Longoria plenty the year before. He’s a heck of a player, but his personality could use some growth. Not Price though, that dude was cool as could be.
www.dropoutproductions.com
Yeah, I have no concept of anyone’s personalities…I don’t get autographs or anything, I just come to watch ’em play.
I'll handle u in spring training - phil413
by mattdiaz4life on Feb 18, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
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